Good thing we don’t ration health care in the USA

“Lets see what Vick can do.”

It will be interesting, getalife. It’s possible that the long “rest” did him some good. He appears to be a lot more mature individual.

Well, here’s hoping the Jets and the Saints can win today. I lost my azz yesterday on Florida State, and need to make a comeback today.

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Bruno, no I’ve not seen it, but the trailers looked awesome.

Talk about your tortured soul playing a tortured soul.

There’s something uniquely interesting about that…

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Kamchak -

“mike is responding as usual when his brain doesn’t like what he is seeing with blind rage and whacko rhetoric like:

“typical liberal hypocrites”
“hyper partisan intolerance”
“ad hominem attacks”
“mindless partisan hatred”
“hate-filled meaningless rant”
“narrow minded views”’

That’s super but I didn’t say any of those things.

I guess you must not have a response to anything I actually did say. LOL

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every mother’s son –

“I contacted viral pneumonia in January, and I can tell you it’s not something that you go see a nurse about so she can refer you to a doctor as Mike suggests.”

She could have walked into her student health center and gotten help that day.

It is misinformation that killed this girl, not “the system”. The system provided her care as soon as she requested it. Expensive care at that.

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Oh wait! Turns our that she did get medical attention before her emergency treatment:

“Young became ill about two weeks ago, but didn’t seek care initially because she didn’t have health insurance and was worried about the cost, according to Brent Mowery, her friend and former roommate.

Mowery said Young eventually went to an urgent care facility in Hamilton where she was given pain medication and then sent home.

On Tuesday, Sept. 22, Young’s condition suddenly worsened and her roommate drove her to McCullough Hyde Memorial Hospital in Oxford, where she was flown in critical condition to University Hospital in Cincinnati.”

OK, so she gets sick, but not sick enough that she or her friends think it is worth the money to address.

Then she goes to an urgent care facility, but apparently is not given the treatment she needed.

She decides to go to the hospital later and is admitted immediately.

If there is any scandal here it should be that the urgent care facility did not treat her properly.

This whole thread is a farce.

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The article also notes that:

“Young traveled twice to Latin America to explore human rights issues, and helped organize the spring break trips as part of the Students for Peace and Justice.”

Sorry.If she has enough money to do the human right tourism, she had enough money for some penicillin.

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Except for one on point infectious disease fact Mikey–

“Penicillin” does nothing to help H1N1 nor does it inhibit or kill any virus. When used promiscuously by people who take their friend’s or by a doctor who doesn’t know what he or she is doing to placate the patient to Rx an antibiotic for viral illness–frequently done and stupidly done, it can promote a super-infecting bacterial pneumonia that often does the patient in or makes them a lot sicker.

Pen discovered in the 1920’s by accident because of a kitchen mold, actually got on the market at the end of WWII because more soldiers on both sides died of what we called then pneumococcal pneumonia and now call Strept. Pneumonia (not to be confused with Strept throat) because more troops on both sides died of it after being exposed to harsh weather and no shelter.

Within 5 years there was already significant penicillinase preduction, or an enzyme that allowed bacteria to be resistant to penicillin. Using it in viral disease promotes this exponentially. Keflex was a big breakthough because it attacked penicillinase until quickly we got resistance from promiscuous use of the cephalosporins (including its original Keflex). Resistance in the quinollone family comes much quicker as does resistance in secondary and tertiary cephalosporins.

Go Falcons.

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“Talk about your tortured soul playing a tortured soul.”

I think that’s what gives the movie a transcendent quality. The ultimate form of “method acting”.

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Public Option -

Do you deny that this girl received medical care as soon as she asked for it?

If I sit in my house and starve to death because I erroneously think I can’t afford food, is it indicative of a broken food system?

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That’s super but I haven’t said any of those things today—yet.

fyt again

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From Bruno who makes up everything he says.

“What part of the phrase “government-approved health insurance plan” do you not get? Government approved /= public option. “Government-approved” simply means that the government will dictate what minimum coverages must be included by each provate insurer, whether such coverage makes any sense for the individual consumer or not (e.g. maternity coverage).”

Totally wrong. There is nothing like this in any of the five bills or contemplated to be added on the floor of House or Senate or in conference. This is out of the land of Bruno delusions.

The private insurers have dictated every aspect of insurance–premiums, recission, they dropped 17000 last year that died as a direct result of treatment they didn’t get.

Hell yes I’m denying your fiction is the centerpiece of any plan. No one knows what Obama is pushing and I fault him for not being precise. It’s allowed the Senate Finance hookers to hold up the plan for months.

We don’t know what the shape of a mandate will be yet. What we do know is that if there isn’t a robust public option, insurance companies will continue to rape the public and people will continue to die in the thousands per year because they lack coverage or get dropped.

You also avoid or forget that the pharmaceutical companies want to preserve gouging seniors in a Part D donut paradigm that forbids competitive bidding for Medicare drugs. It’s the source of the Medicare fiscal problems that stupid Republicans pretend has nothing to do with the setup that they pushed in 2003 with Bill Frist and his band of pharmaceutical company hookers.

It was front and center in Senate Finance with Bill Nelson’s bill Friday, and it will be attacked in a lot more friendly territory when the Senate Finance committee stops showing the country how hard the hookers are fighting for their johns and the hundreds of thousands lavished on them by the johns this summer.

If you think you have any direct documentation for the outlandish Bruno manufactured junk you’re proferring here, then please bring it, but it doesn’t exist.

The Republican dominated Baucus bill default would have caused those kinds of penalties, and there are numerous amendments from both sides not to ahve them.

BTW all 564 amendments don’t get debated; only a fraction actually come up for debate. Most of the amendments are meaningless jibberish by Repubozos like Hatch that say nothing and won’t be taken up. Senate Finiance has to vote on any amendment that any Senator presents to the committee for a vote, not any amendment that is written.

Each committee has its own specific rules in a markup.

I’m looking forward to seeing Chuck Schumer and Jay Rockerfeller making my arguments against hookers who are only arguing to preserve their hooking at the expense of health care on Tuesday and Wednesday. TIVO is a good thing.

@ Mike–

You don’t know what the hell she died of rookie. And you wouldn’t know viral or antibiotic treatment if it bit you in the butt. You have zero training and are making a fool of yourself.

We don’t have her medical records, and we don’t have autopsy results. The most specific article on her is from the Dayton paper and it says contrary to the AJC whizkids that she either died of H1N1 OR VIRAL FRIGGING PNEUMONIA.

Throwing penicillin around when there’s a doctor here to clean up your stupidity just makes you look dumber Mike. If you’re going to argue medicine with me, get through med school and residency and then do some clinical practice. Right now you’re way out of your league.

If you think she had a penicillin treatable pneumonia–none of us use penicillin very widely for pneumonia in fact, and we haven’t done it in since the 1950’s bubby. I explained that after a very few years, significant resistance developed to penicillin treatment of bacteria and that includes all pneumonias and otitis media. That ushered in Keflex and cephalosporins.

No comprehensive review of pneumonia treatment recommends penicllin unless you’re dealing with a pen sensitive pneumonia, and hasn’t since the late 1940’s and early 1950’s. You’ve made a total fool of yourself but are too ignorant to realize it.

We don’t use newspapers in medicine to make infectious disease diagnoses. We don’t have confirmatory tests results on Kimberly Young.

Maybe more information will come forward.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/dayton-news/deceased-miami-student-remembered-for-her-passion-315472.html

Family members indicated that Young died from complications from the H1N1 virus, but the Ohio Department of Health, the Hamilton County Health District and the Butler County Health Department were unable to confirm she had been infected with the virus.

Bret Atkins, of ODH, said late Thursday afternoon that his department had not received a specimen yet to test for the H1N1 virus. If it is confirmed, Young would be the fourth Ohioan to die from the virus and the second from Butler County.

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Mike…”Inexpensive health care?” Is there such an animal?

As I stated earlier I had pneumonia, and spent three weeks in the ICU at Emory Eastside then was transported via ambulance to a rehab facility for a two week stay. Think that’s inexpensive? The ambulance ride alone was 500.00!

With pneumonia you don’t just drop into the doctor and get a shot, and you’re ok.

Pneumonia sneaks up on you…First you think you have flu like symptons..Then as you become worse, your vitals start to shut down, but you still think you’ll weather the storm. If it hadn’t of been for my wife dragging me off to the doctor I wouldn’t be here to write this.

This girl probably thought she would get better, and without insurance didn’t take the necessary steps until it was to late.

Now back to the football game.

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An ambulance ride with only EKG monitoring from the varsity to either Grady or Piedmont normally bills at about $650. The expense of treatment only becomes vivid when you’ve been a patient like every mother’s son who makes the points well.

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LOL, Jokerman — I don’t think so

It appears it was cancer: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5h2nLadQOf3AIl4Rm7NGmQ__jAUhAD9AVRAG01

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Bill Safire was one of the most outstanding reporters and newspaper writers who ever lived:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/28/us/28safire.html

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Well, this story is a sad realization of what can happen. It does happen because we have free choice to make our own decisions. That is known as FREEDOM. We do make many decisions and many times they are wrong but we CHERISH THAT RIGHT..

Bookman uses the story of a deceased young woman as propaganda to promote a political issue i.e. present healthcare formulation. A thoughtless malevolent decision using death as a tool.

The young woman like many young people did not think she needed healthcare insurance or did not knoow what was available. Unfortunate decision but not unusual for our youngest adults.

Doctors at the Emergency Healthcare Center made the wrong diagnosis, judging a serious condition as something needing less care. Wrong diagnosis but easy to miss the right one.

But let us not take away freedom in the fallacious thought that we can save the lives of all Americans by demanding they use “government” healthcare not of their choosing. We cannot do that and be a free nation. Good or bad, we must make our own decisions. Don’t throw freedom away with a bad decision. That will ruin your health.

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Public Option’s Doing Swell –

What’s up with the “Mikey” thing? Getting angry and reverting to grade school tactics? Big surprise.

Your arguing about penicillin is a total diversion from the point.

The point is that she recieved care as soon as she requested it?

I have asked you several times to deny that, but you would rather change the subject. Again, big surpirse.

For the fourth time:

Do you deny that she received care as soon as she requested it?

Feel free to keep ducking the question. You ducking gives us all the answers we need.

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Normal- Did I not tell you about the Patriots?

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every mothers son –

“mike…You answer YES to my question “Mike…”Inexpensive health care?” Is there such an animal Care to go into detail?”

Sure. I have an HSA account and catastrophic insurance. I pay most of my family’s medical bills out of pocket. My daughter got pinkeye. I brought her to the doctor and the combination of doctor’s fees and medicine was under $100.

“On one hand according to you health care can be obtained on the cheap, and in the next paragraph you state “It is expensive””

This is really not very complicated. Some health care is relatively inexpensive, like the healthcare I that would have helped this girls had she not avoided the doctor. Some health care is expensive like the health care that she was provided when she finally went to the doctors.

Simple enough for you?

Any chance that you will answer any of my questions instead of just deflecting like Chad/Public Option?

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This is the only question in your contradictory monolog…..

“Nobody is debating that health care is expensive. It is expensive. Are you saying that it is too expensive and you want somebody else to pay for it?”

Yes and no…….Makes about as much sense as you do!

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Looks like Chad doesn’t feel like answering questions. He just wants to ask them.

I guess it is because Chad doesn’t have any answers.

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Dusty –

“Bookman uses the story of a deceased young woman as propaganda to promote a political issue i.e. present healthcare formulation.”

So true. Bookman has found his Teri Schiavo. How repugnant that he would use this poor girl’s corpse as a podium for his politics. Disgusting.

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@ Mike–

You’re very fond of mentally masturbating and lack of facts and data never stops you.

Arguing with you or trying to discuss anything is like trying to discuss with a 2 year old child . The great news about you is you’re a Katy Abram clone and most Republicans are like you= loss after loss after loss.

You were the one who raise penicillin incorrectly and it’s my reflex to fix it.

You don’t know what she had but that didn’t stop you from proclaiming you did.

We asses treatment in post mortems with charts and autopsies, not newspaper accounts. The media tries medically, but at this state in her illness they don’t have anything firm. There is also the issue of patient privacy that sometimes prevents newspapers from reporting accurately. This is played out on cable TV all the time as well. We have Steve Sadow litigating the saga of Anna Nicole Smith years after.

However…according to the Dayton paper

The best information I have is that treatment was delayed. That’s what the article relates. In the first the paper reports she delayed. In the second place, the urgent care facility treated her for pain and did not suspect or diagnose flu. Rapid tests are popular at those type clinics, and rapid tests are highly inaccurate and there is the indication from the paper that the urgent care facility wasn’t entertaining H1N1 or flu–but that she was uncomfortable. It doesn’t relate her Sx or treatment at the urgent care facility. Then two weeks later she gets hospitalized for whatever she had.

The definitive treatment for H1N1 if in fact she had that, and you don’t know what she had, and I don’t because I don’t have any charts from the facilities who saw her or any final diagnosis in my hands, films, labs, tests for H1N1 or her treatment and the time sequence.

The only information I have on the unfortunate student is lay information from a Dayton newspaper reporter and it goes like this. It sure as hell suggest her diagnosis (whatever it really is) and treatment was delayed.

“That’s the most tragic part about it. If she had insurance, she would have gone to the doctor,” Mowery said.

I have better things to do than to argue with someone with ‘t knzero medical training who doesn’t know the circunmstances of Ms. Nelson, but I have a feeling the outcome is not one that nay physician or family member or friend wants for a patient in her circumstances. She was dead and she still is dead.

We don’t consider that the objective in a 22 year old college student with her life ahead of her. We’re not trained that way.

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As soon as people give up their $30,000 cars, their flat screens, their Apple computers, their cellphones, their internet service and all of the other “necessary trappings” of American life I will listen to the Democrats argument about the cost of healthcare and about how so many poor people don’t have it. A persons healthchare should take priority over all of this other trivial crap but no-one thinks they should have to pay for that. They are willing to pay for the bling but not the healthcare. Who in the hell ever said healthcare should be anymore free than your power bill?

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Or shorter version–the Dayton newspaper indicates the woman did not get either antiviral Tx or antibiotics, whichever was appropriate at the hospital until 2 weeks after her symptoms presented. There are a list of symptoms of H1N1 and any pneumonica covered in my last link.

Young people and older people often delay treatment thinking they can shake something off–we all do that–and it appears in this situation delayed treatment had the ultimately worse case outcome.

We’re going to beat down Repubozo hookers for insurance companies and we’re going to get access to care for many more and I hope all Americans in the next few months. When that will actually happen after legislation is passed, if it is passed is a whole other awful discussion.

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Chad –

“Young people and older people often delay treatment thinking they can shake something off–we all do that–and it appears in this situation delayed treatment had the ultimately worse case outcome.”

Well how is “beating down Repubozo hookers for insurance companies” going to change the above, Chad?

Just using this poor girl’s death as tool for your silly partisanship?

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People like Chad/Public Option are why the public option is failing. Their hysterical and hateful ranting is a turnoff to anyone who thinks. If someone like Chad can be for a policy, most sane people will be wary.

I know, I know. Normal people are normally really impressed with terms like “Repubozo hookers”, but it almost sounds like a grade school insult the way that Chad says it. LOL

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Chad –

For the seventh time:

Do you deny that she received treatment as soon as she asked for it?

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The ER is the “national health care” program in the USofA and the taxpayers pick up the tab for it. But you don’t pay it strictly in higher taxes, you also pay it in higher insurance premiums and it is really expensive. Why!

…Because when a heart attack victim who’s never taken cholesterol-lowering drugs or high blood pressure medication shows up at the St. Luke’s ER, it costs a heck of a lot more money than the medication that might have prevented or delayed the heart attack. Ditto for the woman who never gets an annual mammogram but who shows up at the ER when she finally has a lump in her breast and is diagnosed as having Stage 3 cancer.

The ER care at St. Luke’s may be superior to the formalized national health care in places like Britain, France or Canada. But don’t for a minute think that it’s free, or that it’s not America’s own form of national health care.

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Go for it.

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Mike you’re easy to keep up with….you said you paid 100.00 for your daughters pinkeye, Call me next time she comes down with this malady and I’ll only charge 50.00

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Reading the posts here, me thinks Mike will shortly need MENTAL INSURANCE….

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“For some reason, folks seem to think that government health care is free health care. It isn’t.”

Well, it depends on your definition of free…Free to who?

If you are a veteran it’s definately free to the user. Not one red cent comes out of the users pocket.

If you are a taxpayer then of course a little comes out, but then again someone has got to pay the piper.

And from a veteran of a foreign war (VN) I believe I earned the right……………………..

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Yes! Duplicate comment detected; it looks as though you’ve already said that!

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Hey guys and gals, just a friendly reminder from that old hippie Normal…
http://irc.lv/video?id=WpDWler5bTJx

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Kamchak…If You’re gonna do a little barefootin’ Here’s a little something for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Z2O23-fh1I

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jokerman

Well—-that brings back some mammaries.

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Public Option –

“You demand “my credentials.” I don’t have to give you the time of day, and wouldn’t if I met you you’re such an arrogant stupid SOB, but I’ve stated before I have an MD at an American medical school, and I graduated from an honors program at a leading American university with a double major in English and Chemistry, minors biology and philosophy related to each.”

Bull. There is no way that anyone with the shallow thought process that you demonstrate on a regular basis has a GED, let alone an advanced degree.

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“Columnist William Safire dies. AJC headline”

Only the rocks live forever……

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“Well—-that brings back some mammaries”

Hmmmmmm…now that you mention it !!!!!!!!!

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I do so admire mike’s patience.

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Chad/Public Option –

“What Issackson is not mentioning is that none of the 3 Issackson children, all between the ages of roughly 25-30 have no intention whatsoever of going to Iraq, Afghanistan or anywhere else as members of the armed forces or contractors.”

What a load of crap. How much time do you think Obama’s kids will spend in such circumstances? Or Chelsea Clinton?

“So in other words, in typical Republican fashion–”let the hired help” be the fish in a barrel to be blown up and accomplish nothing.”

Hate to have facts crash sown on your mindless partisan fantasies, but Republicans far outnumber Democrats in the service. According to the Military Times, the active serving armed forces is:

48.9% Republican
14.4% Democrat

45.8% Somewhat or very conservative
8.4% Somewhat or very liberal

So again, your mindless yammering is disproved by a simple Google search.

“One could ask why Issacson’s 3 children aren’t in Afghanistan?”

Because they are adults who make up their own mind as to whether they want to serve, regardless of who their Dad is.

Kind of like Al Gore’s military age kids are not in the service, despite his Dad’s enthusiastic support for the Afghan War.

Are you ever right about anything, “Dr.” Chad? LOL

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ou don’t know you arrogant ignorant turkey what health care she received. But you can infer from the article she put off going to the urgent care center for 2 weeks and her friends say it’s because she didn’t have the money or the insurance. Insurance at her school cost about $750 bucks and she didn’t have it.

And you nailed it accurately, I’m working on my GED after several years of medical practice. You’re working on your delusional system and you have it carved out pretty well.

You don’t know what was in the girl’s head; you don’t know why it took her 2 weeks to start getting medical care, and her friends say it’s because she coudln’t afford it. Dayton has a medical school; her student health service apparently requires insurance payments and she didn’t have it.

You don’t know what she had, and you don’t know when she got treatment for what she had.

What I take from the article having done many years of ER and FP is that she put off care because she didn’t ahve the insurance her university requres to be seen at student health when she got mild symptoms; she didn’t know to go to the University medical school teaching hospital or hell maybe she couldn’t get there–I don’t know her transportation status or state of mind; and when she got definitive Dx/Tx she was shipped from Hamilton Ohio down where she was admitted at treated at CGH.

I did some residency years at CGH how ’bout you Miko?

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Chad –

Ducking and spinning and name calling again.

Let me destory your silly argument.

“ou don’t know you arrogant ignorant turkey what health care she received. ”

Never claimed to. I was saying that she did receive medical attention. You refuse to say that.

“Insurance at her school cost about $750 bucks and she didn’t have it.”

Bull

“Who is eligible to receive services at the Student Health Service? Any Miami University student registered for classes is eligible.

Can students utilize the Student Health Service even if they do not purchase the student health insurance? Yes. All students are required to have insurance (see Student Insurance) and the University offers a policy for those who would like to purchase it. However, the services of the SHS are available to all students registered for classes. ”

http://www.units.muohio.edu/saf/shs/FAQ.htm

“You don’t know what was in the girl’s head; you don’t know why it took her 2 weeks to start getting medical care, and her friends say it’s because she coudln’t afford it. ”

Not certain why you are bringing this up, but what is your point? You don’t need insurance to see a doctor and if she went to Student Health center or any other hospital, she would have received treatment. Seems like even if she had a bill, it would not be a crippling and it would have been worth her life.

“Dayton has a medical school; her student health service apparently requires insurance payments and she didn’t have it.”

See above. She had access to the health center. Wrong again “Dr.”

“You don’t know what she had, and you don’t know when she got treatment for what she had.”

All I know is what the Board of Health said, but who cares? Why is that relevant to the insurance discussion.

“she didn’t know to go to the University medical school teaching hospital or hell maybe she couldn’t get there–I don’t know her transportation status”

What? The girl planned and went overseas trips for her school and she couldn’t call a cab? What a joke.

“I did some residency years at CGH how ’bout you Miko?”

So you say

Even if you are not lying (a BIG if), I’ve been an executive at Fortume 500 companies for over 18 years. Does that mean that I am allowed to comment on business and you are not?

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Kam, That’s where I do my best fishin’ too… And wine on Sunday, OMG a true miricle!!!

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RIP william saphire…he wrote “nattering nabobs of negativism” for Spiro T., which is kind of cool. 2 good conservative columnists lost recently

If these things come in 3’s, I hope that horses ass Thomas L. Friedman is next.

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I might add that anyone who thinks insurance companies haven’t caused rationing either because of their autocratic fraudulent tratment of patients and doctors or premiums that employers and employed or unemployed (much more expensive market) can’t afford has been living on another planet or is totally out of contact with reality.

This girl was not a Christian Scientist or Jahova’s witness who was refusing care, and unless you’re stupid enough to think one of her best friends/former room-mates is a sociopathic liar with an agenda, she was busting her butt at 2 part time jobs while looking for work in a job market Bush ruined in Ohio.

It sure implies she couldn’t afford care and put off treatment until the process she had, probably a fatal pneumonia of some kind could not be successfully treated by the time she hit the MICU at UC.

Somewhere tonight in that hospital or close by are some very sad nurses and some very sad residents and attendings.

I’d shove her right in the face of Jon Kyle Tuesday if I were on Senate Finance–I’d love to be there to beat up on the Blue Dogs and the Repubozos.

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9 months in now for obozo Hussein, and the job losses keep rolling in…stimulus=FAIL? thats a big 10-4 kemosabee!

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…And Kam, I’ve got some great fish recipes too, if you’re interested…

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Public Option -

“I’d shove her right in the face of Jon Kyle Tuesday if I were on Senate Finance–I’d love to be there to beat up on the Blue Dogs and the Repubozos.”

Right because you are an angry and irrational person who would love to stand on this girl’s corpse to make deceitful points.

The truth is that she had access to health care from several places and chose not to avail herself of it. If anyone is to blame, it is folks like Jay who want to scare people into thinking that they will get turned away if they don’t have insurance.

How is that John Kyl’s fault, Chad?

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