Our grandchildren will curse us to our face

As the father of two children, I really, truly hope these people are wrong. They’re the experts, they’re the best in their field, but I really hope they’re wrong.

Because if they’re right, and I believe that they are, our children and grandchildren are going to curse us for our greed and obstinance, and they will every cause to do so.

“What did you do to stop it?” they’ll ask us, and how will we answer?

“But but but … there were skeptics!”

Somehow, that’s just not going to cut it.

From the Washington Post:

“Climate researchers now predict the planet will warm by 6.3 degrees Fahrenheit by the end of the century even if the world’s leaders fulfill their most ambitious climate pledges, a much faster and broader scale of change than forecast just two years ago, according to a report released Thursday by the United Nations Environment Program.

The new overview of global warming research, aimed at marshaling political support for a new international climate pact by the end of the year, highlights the extent to which recent scientific assessments have outstripped the predictions issued by the Nobel Prize-winning U.N. Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change in 2007.

Robert Corell, who chairs the Climate Action Initiative and reviewed the UNEP report’s scientific findings, said the significant global temperature rise is likely to occur even if industrialized and developed countries enact every climate policy they have proposed at this point. The increase is nearly double what scientists and world policymakers have identified as the upper limit of warming the world can afford in order to avert catastrophic climate change.”

257 comments Add your comment

stands for decibels

September 25th, 2009
7:38 am

“But but but … there were skeptics!”

Also, we had to “teach the controversy.” We’re sorry about that, too.

Normal

September 25th, 2009
7:40 am

MR. PRESIDENT, BRING OUR TROOPS HOME NOW!
—————–
Ever see the movie “Water World”? I wonder if that’s our gift to our
Grandkids. Just think, everywhere would be beach front :neutral:

Doggone/GA

September 25th, 2009
7:45 am

“everywhere would be beach front ”

Ummm…if the whole world is covered in water, then NOWHERE is beachfront!

I Report/ Vast White Wing Conspirator (-: You Whine )-:

September 25th, 2009
7:46 am

The libs can’t destroy the United States with a second porkulus package or their health care bill, the citizenry has wised up on those sinister schemes, so they double down on their “global warming” scare fantasy.

Looks like there is another protest in our future, Conservatives.

March on!

stands for decibels

September 25th, 2009
7:47 am

Grandkids, keep in mind too that such intellectual powerhouses as Kyle Wingfield encouraged us not to pay a whole lotta heed to alarmist types.

mike

September 25th, 2009
7:49 am

Will someone please tell me what the correct temperature for the earth should be? Moving forward, how much effort should we spend keeping the temperature constant, as opposed to accepting the same temperature fluctuations that have effected the earth for as long as it existed?

Turd Ferguson

September 25th, 2009
7:49 am

Speaking of OboboCARE…

You may have to try times. When I tried there was too much activity on the site.
KEEP TRYING!!!
Please read and act,
only it only takes a minute!

Please pass this on!!

On Tuesday, the Senate health committee voted 12-11 in favor of a two-page amendment courtesy of Republican Tom Coburn that would require all Members and their staffs to enroll in any new government-run health plan. It took me less than a minute to sign up to require our congressmen and senators to drink at the same trough! Three cheers for Congressman John Fleming of Louisiana!

Congressman John Fleming ( Louisiana physician) has proposed an amendment that would require congressmen and senators to take the same healthcare plan they force on us (under proposed legislation they are curiously exempt).

Congressman Fleming is encouraging people to go on his Website and sign his petition (very simple – just first, last and email). I have immediately done just that at: http://fleming.house.gov/index.html

. http://fleming.house.gov/index.cfm?sectionid=55&sectiontree=29,55

Please urge as many people as you can to do the same!

If Congress forces this on the American people, the Congressmen should have to accept the same level of health care for themselves and their families.

Easy as pie...

September 25th, 2009
7:50 am

The self hatred by the left is rather amusing.

mike

September 25th, 2009
7:51 am

sfb –

“Grandkids, keep in mind too that such intellectual powerhouses as Kyle Wingfield encouraged us not to pay a whole lotta heed to alarmist types.”

Got any refutation for his argument? Or are we just to accept his writing as intrinsically wrong because and “intellectual powerhouse” like you disagrees with him?

Zedd

September 25th, 2009
7:52 am

It’s more likely our kids and grandkids will curse us for the taxes they’ll have to pay due to the Obumbler’s spending and not being able to enjoy the same freedom and liberties we’ve enjoyed.

Mrs. Godzilla

September 25th, 2009
7:52 am

Jay,

They won’t curse you or I…..or lots of folks who have since that first earth day and every day after recognized the importance of and fought for the proper stewardship of our planet.

They will be really mad at Andy though. Really mad.

TnGelding

September 25th, 2009
7:52 am

Isn’t it too late now to do anything about it? They’ll just have to adjust. And Mother Nature could make it moot at any instant.

mike

September 25th, 2009
7:54 am

Normal -

“Ever see the movie “Water World”? I wonder if that’s our gift to our
Grandkids. Just think, everywhere would be beach front ”

Well if you look at the geological history of the earth since Pangaea, you will that there is a ton more “beachfront property” than there used to be. Pretty amazing that the bulk of that change happened before man existed.

USinUK

September 25th, 2009
7:54 am

well, mike, there’s always this:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gOlWiujpOldgk2YCQMLpBQStXRMAD9AT58IG0

New satellite information shows that ice sheets in Greenland and western Antarctica continue to shrink faster than scientists thought and in some places are already in runaway melt mode.

British scientists for the first time calculated changes in the height of the vulnerable but massive ice sheets and found them especially worse at their edges. That’s where warmer water eats away from below. In some parts of Antarctica, ice sheets have been losing 30 feet a year in thickness since 2003, according to a paper published online Thursday in the journal Nature.

Some of those areas are about a mile thick, so they’ve still got plenty of ice to burn through. But the drop in thickness is speeding up. In parts of Antarctica, the yearly rate of thinning from 2003 to 2007 is 50 percent higher than it was from 1995 to 2003.

TnGelding

September 25th, 2009
7:55 am

I Report/ Vast White Wing Conspirator (-: You Whine )-:

September 25th, 2009
7:46 am

…and on, and on….into the sea!

I tend to agree with you on this one, but we certainly need to be aware of the harm we’re doing to our environment and take reasonable corrective actions.

USinUK

September 25th, 2009
7:57 am

… and what will it mean if the ice melts and the sea level rises?

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5g5Rypcx89nBaZm90KTK-6C56pdIw

Delta land vulnerable to serious flooding could expand by 50 percent this century if ocean levels increase as expected under moderate climate change scenarios, the study projects.

Worst hit will be Asia, but heavily populated and farmed deltas on every continent except Australia and Antarctica are in peril, it says.

mike

September 25th, 2009
7:57 am

Here is an interesting video of the folks who made the latest global warming alarmist film. The thrust of the movie is that airline traffic is destructive and that flights should be curbed in developing nations. Guess how the movie’s makers got to the premiere.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-cvK9vxA6M

DAVID

September 25th, 2009
7:59 am

They did not forecast all this rain & the flooding…..yet liberals believe in the HOAX of Global Warming………GIVE ME A BREAK..

USinUK

September 25th, 2009
7:59 am

“Delta land vulnerable to serious flooding could expand by 50 percent this century”

and the impact won’t just be on food – it’s also going to be on international finances as P&C insurance companies are forced to pay out on damages and as the economics of those regions collapse …

Mrs. Godzilla

September 25th, 2009
8:00 am

the hoax of glbal warming……there’s your sign!

Normal

September 25th, 2009
8:01 am

Doggone: Perhaps I should have said “Boat Front”…
—————
Mike: I’m thinking if this keeps up my property might be beach front for the new Eastern American Sea…

TnGelding

September 25th, 2009
8:01 am

Zedd

September 25th, 2009
7:52 am

Well, unless corporate America regains its senses, it’s not going to matter. They’ll be on the dole.

Joey

September 25th, 2009
8:02 am

Jay;
I responded in the previous post.

Normal

September 25th, 2009
8:02 am

Just because David doesn’t believe it, doesn’t mean it’s not going to happen, huh folks?

Turd Ferguson

September 25th, 2009
8:04 am

Oh yea…its GLOBAL HYSTERIA!!!

mike

September 25th, 2009
8:04 am

USinUK –

“well, mike, there’s always this:”

I am confused. Is this a response to something I said,

Reagardless, as your article states:

“Some scientists have previously estimated that steady melting of the two ice sheets will add about 3 feet, maybe more, to sea levels by the end of the century. But the ice sheets are so big it would probably take hundreds of years for them to completely disappear.”

Looks like they were off by a few hundred years. In a few years they will probably say it will be thousands of year.

I don’t think that we should rush into some economy-crippling plan to address climate change when the scientists assumptions are constantly proven to be incorrect and when we have no idea whether any of the proposed actions will even address the problem.

USinUK

September 25th, 2009
8:05 am

here’s the thing:

which is going to be more expensive/worse for everyone: being wrong about climate change and doing something about carbon emissions ??

being right about climate change and NOT doing something about carbon emissions?

Taxpayer

September 25th, 2009
8:06 am

Well, if we melt enough ice, then we will solve our drought and transportation problems. I see houseboats and homes built on those big chunks of styrofoam and an increased propensity for seafood. Now, let’s see. Where did all that arctic ice go? Oh yes. Andy now claims that it is floating around in the form of antarctic sea ice. hehehe. Truthers, birthers, deniers. Hey, you right wing nutter butters. Two out of three ain’t bad.

mike

September 25th, 2009
8:07 am

Normal –

“Just because David doesn’t believe it, doesn’t mean it’s not going to happen, huh folks?”

Kind of like it is gonna happen because you believe it? Do you really think your brilliant “waterwold” quip is some kind of definitive argument?

Taxpayer

September 25th, 2009
8:07 am

USinUK,

It is much more important to funnel resources into finding that long form. After all, we have a limited time before the earth floods and then it will be lost forever. :roll:

USinUK

September 25th, 2009
8:08 am

mike –

“I don’t think that we should rush into some economy-crippling plan to address climate change when the scientists assumptions are constantly proven to be incorrect and when we have no idea whether any of the proposed actions will even address the problem.”

you’re missing the point – whether the train is heading towards you at 100 mph or 60 mph, it’s still heading towards you.

whether the ice shelves are melting at a faster or slower rate than previously estimated, they’re still melting.

and do you really think that lowering our carbon emissions could possibly be a BAD thing???

jconservative

September 25th, 2009
8:09 am

“…the significant global temperature rise is likely to occur even if industrialized and developed countries enact every climate policy they have proposed at this point.”

Jay, this sentence says it will happen regardless of what we do.
And we know the planet’s governments will do nothing. We know the USA will do nothing. Once an item hits the political arena nothing gets done except in very rare cases.

If our great or great-great grand-kids curse us, then they will have a very large dictionary of curse words to choose from. Hey they can call us pinko commie socialist. Or maybe right wing nazi nuts. That’s is one thing we have been doing real well recently, cursing each other in the political arena.

Doggone/GA

September 25th, 2009
8:09 am

“I’m thinking if this keeps up my property might be beach front for the new Eastern American Sea”

Wasn’t there some conman back in the 70’s who was trying to sell land in California as “future beachfront” when the San Andreas fault finally split and all of California west of the fault “fell into the sea”?

Bill White

September 25th, 2009
8:09 am

So what if the Earth’s temp goes up a few degrees? Just crank up the AC and buy more fans. Who care if the ice caps melt? That’s just more water for us. How about finding ways to ship that extra water to places that need it like in the middle of Africa or California.
See, it’s that easy. Bookman and Algore want to scare you so that they can tax you and take your hard earned dollars to redistribute to people that don’t deserve it.
Are you poor? Get help at your church.
Do you need water? Dig a well and get it yourself.
Don’t like how the roads are built? Privative them and let good companies like Walmart build a stretches of road. Buses and trains are collectivist transportation modes. Let’s end them and make gasoline-powered cars more available. Then you liberal secular progressive will say, “Gee Bill, you’re putting more cars on the road and that causes pollution and global warming.” Shut up, you dumb whiners. If more folks could get around on their own, then they can easily find jobs and expand this economy which contracted from Hussein Obama’s recession.
See, it’s all simple you idiot secular progressives. My ideas would greatly reduce gov’t-leaving more money in everyone’s pocket.
If we reduced gov’t and instituted something like the FAIR Tax — and I know Bookman starts to shake and cry about this — then we would be far more prosperous.
Instead, poor Jay and his fellow Communist bed-wetting friends in the MSM and gov’t want to expand gov’t.

Al Goron

September 25th, 2009
8:09 am

Watching the floods in GA this week and Anartica melting has made me soil myself. Tipper…where are my rubber underpants?

mike

September 25th, 2009
8:10 am

USinUK –

The agument you made is pure Dick Cheney, except he said:

“which is going to be more expensive/worse for everyone: being wrong about Iraq’s WMD and ensuring that he does not have them??

being right about WMD and and NOT ensuring that he does not have them?”

I’d accuse you of fear-mongering, but we all know that only conservatives do that.

USinUK

September 25th, 2009
8:10 am

mike –

oh, and the post was a reponse to your comment about refuting Kyle W. who said that climate change is alarmism.

Mrs. Godzilla

September 25th, 2009
8:10 am

bed wetting….there’s your sign!

godless heathen

September 25th, 2009
8:11 am

After reading the headline, I thought this column was going to be about the debt that out of control Federal spending is going to stick them with.

USinUK

September 25th, 2009
8:12 am

“which is going to be more expensive/worse for everyone: being wrong about Iraq’s WMD and ensuring that he does not have them??”

wow. so you’re comparing something that we had NO evidence of (other than the magic UN photos of trucks that “could be harboring germ warfare labs”) to something that we have daily evidence of …

mmmmmkay …

Mrs. Godzilla

September 25th, 2009
8:14 am

Ok try this…..if the ice cap melts all the water will roll off the edge of the flat earth and you won’t be able to make beer for lack of sky blue waters.

How can so many be so blind to the mess we have made?

AmVet

September 25th, 2009
8:15 am

Other than a dwindling handful of nobodys, there is no real doubt about the conclusions.

Anthropogenic climate change is not even in serious dispute anymore.

Not among anyone other than the neo-conned…

Normal

September 25th, 2009
8:15 am

Mike, I don’t envy you your sense of humor. What I believe or not has nothing to do with the fact that the ice IS melting…for what ever reason. In your post below to Jay you said, and I’m paraphrasing here, that in global subjects there is more entrenchment and sniping due to minds made up. Is that what you are trying to do to me now? Do you believe the ice is melting or not? I do. I don’t know why it is and I don’t care, but I am concerned that it is. But save your bullets for someone else, I really don’t have the time to exchange shots with you.

Turd Ferguson

September 25th, 2009
8:16 am

Because there is no mess.

Mrs. Godzilla

September 25th, 2009
8:20 am

Turd

No mess?

Have a big refreshing tumbler of water direct from the hooch….after
an hour or two they’ll start calling you Loosey Goosey Ferguson.

No mess indeed.

Taxpayer

September 25th, 2009
8:21 am

Dick Cheney! Isn’t he another one of those Republican conservatives that said that deficit spending doesn’t matter. He should have finished his sentence to include “as long as it is a conservative Republican deciding what to spend it on.” They like spending borrowed money on tax cuts and wars.

godless heathen

September 25th, 2009
8:21 am

Consider these possibilities:

Global warming is a real long term trend and not a blip on the long time line of history.
Global warming is caused by the activity of man.
Global warming is bad.
We can do something about it.
————————————
To justify drastic action, all of the above must be true. Put me in the skeptical column.

Turd Ferguson

September 25th, 2009
8:22 am

Oh…all this great information from the Crooks at the UN. Typical marketing ploy…create a need then fill it.

stands for decibels

September 25th, 2009
8:25 am

wow. so you’re comparing something that we had NO evidence of (other than the magic UN photos of trucks that “could be harboring germ warfare labs”) to something that we have daily evidence of …

Huh? You weren’t so distracted by our troll’s extree-special use of Dick Cheney as a distraction that your normal powers of deductive reasoning weren’t rendered impotent?

mike, move back three spaces.

Joey

September 25th, 2009
8:25 am

I believe in proper stewardship of our planet. I do not believe that Earth is threatened by an excess of Carbon dioxide and other green house gases. like water vapor.

Labeling me and others who do not buy into this unproven theory as skeptics, is merely an attempt dismiss us. It will not be that easy to do. Using the skeptics word to belittle us implies that believers are actually religious about this issue. And surprise, surprise, they are.

The so call proof(s) that exist regarding Global Warming or if you prefer the new spin name, Global Climate Change is data from computers. I don’t fault the computers, but we all know that computers run software. Software is written by people. The software does what the writers ask it to do.

If you choose to then believe these scientist. In my view the scientist are much like politicians. Their primary job is to justify their own jobs and to be funded and funded again to do more studies. And that is exactly what they have done and continue to do.

In the 60s and 70 we were moving into a cold stretch so their studies indicated the need for further studies of this dangerous cooling trend. Then we entered a warming stretch, and their studies found reason to fear and of course to study that. Now we are either cooling or temporarily stalled or something so it let’s call it something bigger, let’s call it Climate Change.

Thank you very much, but no.

USinUK

September 25th, 2009
8:26 am

“To justify drastic action, all of the above must be true”

yay! I’ll play …

so, when you think that, in the billions of years that the planet earth has been around, when you’re talking about a “blip” you’re talking about thousands of years, at the very least … not a weekend ….

you’re still willing to take that risk???

you still think that all the C02 that we release (combined with deforestation) has NO impact on the planet???

and you really think that the ice caps melting could be a good thing???

Taxpayer

September 25th, 2009
8:26 am

Speaking of the hooch, all that stuff is now down around Columbus and Macon and below. Folks down there say its the biggest toilet flush they’ve ever seen. It’s epic. Biblical even. Sweetwater creek now has a strange aftertaste and the yellow river got yellower. Those folks in Florida and Alabama asked for it and Georgia delivered.

mike

September 25th, 2009
8:27 am

USinUK –

“oh, and the post was a reponse to your comment about refuting Kyle W. who said that climate change is alarmism.”

Well, you didn’t refute anything. His article had nothing to do with your article.

Try refuting what he actually said instead of just tossing around random articles.

USinUK

September 25th, 2009
8:27 am

dB –

I am immune to the siren’s call of Dick Cheney.

Zedd

September 25th, 2009
8:28 am

Why in the world is the Obama Administration planning to give $400,000 in funding to a Libyan charity run by the Gadhafi family?

http://cbs2chicago.com/local/kirk.gadhafi.charities.2.1205623.html

mike

September 25th, 2009
8:28 am

USinUK –

“wow. so you’re comparing something that we had NO evidence of (other than the magic UN photos of trucks that “could be harboring germ warfare labs”) to something that we have daily evidence of …”

NO evidence? LOL. Are you saying that he never had WMD?

If there was NO evidence, why did so many Democrats claim that he did have the WMD.

Feeble, feeble argument.

Turd Ferguson

September 25th, 2009
8:29 am

If Al Goron agrees with it then you best take a seat on the opposite side. Goron and Jimmy Carter may be the biggest fools of the 20th/21st centuries.

USinUK

September 25th, 2009
8:29 am

mike –

alarmism. alaaaaarmism. I’m refuting charges of alarmism with … you know … actual facts.

Lee

September 25th, 2009
8:29 am

Oh good, then Greenland can be warm again to sustain trees and cattle like the Viking days in 1300’s BEFORE greenhouse gases were supposedly produced by man

keep drinking the Kool-aid Jay, USinUK……bunch of putzes

Taxpayer

September 25th, 2009
8:30 am

Joey,

The ice melting and temperature increases are not just data from a computer model. You should really try to expand your knowledge base to include fact.

USinUK

September 25th, 2009
8:30 am

mike –

“Are you saying that he never had WMD”

wow. so Dick was going to hop into the wayback machine and attack him when he did???

because, the UN inspectors that were THERE immediately preceding the attack said he didn’t.

Zip

September 25th, 2009
8:32 am

Hmmmm. Why do they call it Greenland? Hmmmmm. Why was the ancient body they found in the Italian Alps even there…and not heavily clothed? When the glaciers in the Alps started to recede, why did they find evidence of farming? Why was the Medieval Warm Period followed by the Little Ice Age? Why do we get so alarmed by temperature fluctuations? Could it be that there are people who are profiting from providing a “solution” to the problem? Anyone know someone who would profit from “green” regulations or selling Carbon Offsets? Maybe a former Vice President and his cronies that are associated with a major bank…or a political party? Hmmmmm. I’m teaching my kids to not be a patsy. They can curse me if they want.

Hef

September 25th, 2009
8:33 am

To all with wishfull thoughts of a nuclear weapon free world,this nugget on msn.com.”US say’s Iran hiding Nuke Site”. While the dream of beautifull,peacefull world with everyone holding hands & singing “I’d Like To Buy The World A Coke” is nice and I mean that,it is totally unrealistic.

mike

September 25th, 2009
8:34 am

Normal –

“Mike, I don’t envy you your sense of humor”

And I don’e envy your hypocrisy. So what?

“What I believe or not has nothing to do with the fact that the ice IS melting…for what ever reason.”

Duly noted, but what does this have to do with anything that I said?

“In your post below to Jay you said, and I’m paraphrasing here, that in global subjects there is more entrenchment and sniping due to minds made up.”

Huh? How did I say that. What is it with you and your insistence on putting words in my mouth.

“Is that what you are trying to do to me now?”

Do what? You are being incoherent again.

“Do you believe the ice is melting or not?”

Yes, but I have no idea what is causing it.

“I do. I don’t know why it is and I don’t care, but I am concerned that it is.”

Well you sure implied that you think man is causing with your Waterworld quip

“But save your bullets for someone else, I really don’t have the time to exchange shots with you.”

So you said yesterday and we have had four or five exchanges with me since.

I never even paid attention to you until you started calling me angry for daring to call someone a hypocrite. Not surprised that you are raising the white flag after I have schooled you so many times.

DAVID

September 25th, 2009
8:36 am

IDIOT….That is why it is called the weather.& Climates ..there is no constant temperature with the (4) seasons of Spring….summer…..fall …..& winter….

Joey

September 25th, 2009
8:36 am

Taxpayer;
I will if you will. Let’s begin with you helping me.

How many years of photo and other factual evidence of ice cover exist?

mike

September 25th, 2009
8:37 am

USinUK –

“so Dick was going to hop into the wayback machine and attack him when he did???”

Man you are thick. The point is that we all know that at one point he had WMD and that is pretty good evidence that he still might have had them in 2002.

“because, the UN inspectors that were THERE immediately preceding the attack said he didn’t.”

This is utterly false. They never made any such conclusive statement. Please stop making up facts to fit your views.

Look, you are missing the point (as usual). Your argument was that we have to address climate change, even if we are wrong, as the consequences would be too great. Dick Cheney had exactly the same mindset with Iraq.

USinUK

September 25th, 2009
8:39 am

“Oh good, then Greenland can be warm again to sustain trees and cattle like the Viking days in 1300’s ”

ohfercryingoutloud …

first of all, the Vikings weren’t from Greenland, they were from Norway, Finland and Iceland. they travelled to Greenland, but that’s not their origin.

secondly, the Viking age was from 700 to about the first millenium.

lastly, thanks for so thoroughly illustrating the intellectual stature of climate change skeptics.

TnGelding

September 25th, 2009
8:43 am

The grandparents to curse are long since dead; the ones that started the Industrial Revolution.

USinUK

September 25th, 2009
8:44 am

mike –

“This is utterly false. They never made any such conclusive statement. Please stop making up facts to fit your views.”

actually, Hans Blix did in March 2003 – prior to the invasion, the UN inspectors reported that they weren’t finding anything and that they were given access to areas they didn’t have access to before

“The point is that we all know that at one point he had WMD and that is pretty good evidence that he still might have had them in 2002.”

that’s right, mike … conveniently forget that the UN inspectors were there immediately following Gulf War I to destroy weapons caches.

pat

September 25th, 2009
8:44 am

And this article says the opposite:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20327254.000-world-will-cool-for-the-next-decade.html

You’re grandchildren may curse you for pushing idiotic legislation with little to no basis in fact. As for me, my conscience is clean.

Aren’t you guys supposed to be in Pittsburg breaking private property and protesting capitalism?

USinUK

September 25th, 2009
8:45 am

“Look, you are missing the point (as usual). Your argument was that we have to address climate change, even if we are wrong, as the consequences would be too great. Dick Cheney had exactly the same mindset with Iraq.”

oh, nearly forgot the last point … you are completely overlooking the glaring difference between the 2 …

climate change – scientific evidence on a daily basis.

WMDs – NO evidence, whatsoever … and, in fact, the evidence they did have was against them.

TnGelding

September 25th, 2009
8:47 am

“Orders for durable goods drop unexpectedly in Aug.”

WASHINGTON (AP) — Orders for goods expected to last at least three years fell unexpectedly in August due mainly to a drop in demand for commercial aircraft.

http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_ECONOMY?SITE=GACAT&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2009-09-25-08-35-13

Kayaker 71

September 25th, 2009
8:47 am

An equally important problem that we face is the dependence on foreign governments for much of our fossil fuels. Gasoline and diesel fuel are the very backbone of our economy and to trust that to foreign supply is climbing way out on limb. Alternate energy…. more miles/gallon, wind and solar power, development of the hydrogen fuel cell… all of these will help us to maintain our economy without depending on foreign sources for our energy and putting up with the wars it takes to keep the supply available. If the bottom line is the polar ice shelves not melting so fast, so be it. Rather than being so concerned with more “beach front property”, we should be focusing on alternate sources of energy…. one should take care of the other.

Dudley Doright

September 25th, 2009
8:50 am

I think you’re of the mark here, Jay. If Obama’s socialized healthcare passes we may not live long enough to see our grandchildren.

TnGelding

September 25th, 2009
8:51 am

Normal

September 25th, 2009
8:48 am

Shame on you!

TnGelding

September 25th, 2009
8:52 am

Dudley Doright

September 25th, 2009
8:50 am

Another dud from Dudley! Where’ve you been? Just kidding.

Have a great day!

Jay

September 25th, 2009
8:53 am

Climate change deniers begin from a simple premise: “I do not want to believe what the scientists are telling me.”

Once that position is taken, the enormous human capacity to rationalize facts and data and science and expertise begins to kick in.

An objection is raised, it is refuted by facts, so the denier then seeks refuge in another objection. Over time, as the more rational-sounding complaints are refuted, they seek refuge in the less rational, but the objections themselves are infinite in number.

And given the workings of the human mind, as long as objections can be claimed, reality can be denied. At some point, for many, a tipping point is reached. Those who previously denied the existence of climate change switch rationalizations, embracing the claim that ooops, too bad, it’s now too late to do anything. Guess we’ll just have to keep on doing what we wanted to do anyway.

Meanwhile, the temperature continues its inexorable rise.

godless heathen

September 25th, 2009
8:53 am

USinUK,

“you’re still willing to take that risk???”

I’m willing to move forward slowly with corrective action until we have a more definitive handle on the problem. The change is gradual and so can the solutions be, if necessary.

“you still think that all the C02 that we release (combined with deforestation) has NO impact on the planet???”

One good volcano can release many times the amount that we do. A couple of trees will offset the CO2 emmisions of an automobile. So deforestation is not good, but tell that to the Amazonian savages who are seeking the good life brought on by agriculture and industrialization.

“and you really think that the ice caps melting could be a good thing???”

Yea, it will be harder to drill for oil, but we’ll figure it out.

Curious Observer

September 25th, 2009
8:55 am

I just wish I could be around to watch Andy’s coffin get washed up, among all the others, as the camera pans the scene.

Michael H. Smith

September 25th, 2009
8:55 am

Ah, just whup-out that bottle of big government solution and spray a little “Nanny State” on it, Comrade Jay.

Just in case, the UN has got your back. Claims that having children are causing global warming are circulating, so they want money for birth control. Counter-intuitively they also want money to prevent deaths from H1N1 in developing and undeveloped countries of the world where the population increases are most likely to occur.

Nature may indeed seem cruel and usually punishing to humanity. However, nature usually does the better job of looking after humanity than governments. In any event do as we silly humans may or may not, Mother Nature is going to win. She always does.

Lee

September 25th, 2009
8:56 am

USinUK, ur a putz, I didn’t say the Vikings CAME fron G-land. But they lived and thrived their farming and raising cattle until it got so cold that everything died and they returned to the Norselands around 1200’s. Ignorance is bliss isn’t it?

Taxpayer

September 25th, 2009
8:56 am

Joey,

As long as we don’t have to re-visit the dinosaurs, we can talk because, as we both know, dinosaurs are extinct and so the earth was not capable of sustaining their lifestyle. The question now is with regards to our lives and whether the earth will sustain us and what we can do to possibly make the world a better place and what changes we will need to make as a result of changes in our climate. You do also realize that even our military has been going through the climate change scenarios in their attempts to plan for the future. So, don’t pull no Inhofe on me or that Exxon-paid ’scientist’ that proclaims the wonders of carbon dioxide based on the massive amounts that existed in the beginning. Are you game.

Dudley Doright

September 25th, 2009
8:58 am

Jay, I’d be willing to say for every “climate scientist” you can gather to support your beliefs I could get as many to refute the argument. Therefore, your “denier” argument can be turned on you.

As far as the temperatures continuing its “inexorable rise”, I seem to remember a recent climate change expo in Washington, DC, had to be cancelled due to a massive snow/ice storm. Are you just another “denier”?

Peadawg

September 25th, 2009
8:58 am

I don’t blame our grandchildren for cursing us for the wasteful spending going on in the government the past few years. 2 “stimulus” packages and now Obamacare(that will only cost $980 billion and no raised taxes…AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA yeah right).

Jay

September 25th, 2009
8:58 am

Pat has just provided the perfect example of that process at work. The article he cites quotes a scientist to the effect that a cooling trend will hit in the next decade or so, part of the natural variation of climate within the longer term trend. (It’s much like the onset of spring — the longer trend is warming, but within that trend you can get a week or two of cooler weather.)

Pat seizes upon that as evidence that global warming is a fraud, but the very scientist he cites, in the very article he cites, states that climate change is real and that he is not a skeptic.

Joey

September 25th, 2009
8:59 am

Taxpayer;
Your post is typical of the Believer.
Unresponsive and acusing.

AmVet

September 25th, 2009
9:00 am

“Hmmmm. Why do they call it Greenland?”

Of all of the nonsense I’ve read here on this topic, this is one of my personal favorites.

And is a testament to how some have intellectually not made any progress in a thousand years or more.

These are the facts and they are irrefutable.

With the release of the revised statement by the American Association of Petroleum Geologists in 2007, no remaining scientific body of national or international standing is known to reject the basic findings of human influence on recent climate change.

NOT ONE! NOBODY. NARY. NADA. ZIP.

And one could easily list at least four DOZEN scientific bodies, many prestigious and with long standing records of acknowledged discovery and excellence, who are in agreement on this matter.

Now, let me ask you conned, exactly how the hell did THAT happen?

Jay

September 25th, 2009
9:01 am

Dudley, you would lose that bet badly. For every 20 credentialed climatologists I could get in defense of climate change, you would be lucky to find one.

Dudley Doright

September 25th, 2009
9:04 am

Jay, “credentialed” climatologists? Credentialed by who? Don’t think you could back up your claim.

AmVet

September 25th, 2009
9:05 am

“Jay, I’d be willing to say for every “climate scientist” you can gather to support your beliefs I could get as many to refute the argument.”

Dud, by all means please do proceed!

I’D LOVE TO SEE YOUR LIST!!!

(And your neighbor up the street who taught phys ed and science in the eighties doesn’t count…)

USinUK

September 25th, 2009
9:05 am

Lee –

“Ignorance is bliss isn’t it?”

by all indications, you should know.

godless –

“The change is gradual and so can the solutions be, if necessary.”

and if the change is accelerating (which, according to the evidence scientists are gathering), the solutions should continue to be at the same pace?

“One good volcano can release many times the amount that we do. A couple of trees will offset the CO2 emmisions of an automobile.”

we can’t do anything about the volcanos – but we CAN do something about the autos – particularly if we can’t slow the destruction of the rainforests.

“Yea, it will be harder to drill for oil”

let’s just forget about the destruction of property/farmland/ports, etc … it’s all about drilling

Mrs. Godzilla

September 25th, 2009
9:06 am

For the serious minded only….

We know the problem but how to solve it?

Geo-Engineering Could Save the Planet … and in the Process Sacrifice the World

here:

http://www.alternet.org/environment/142687/geo-engineering_could_save_the_planet_%E2%80%A6_and_in_the_process_sacrifice_the_world_

stands for decibels

September 25th, 2009
9:06 am

I seem to remember a recent climate change expo in Washington, DC, had to be cancelled due to a massive snow/ice storm.

This is your brain on Rush.

If movement conservatives were honest enough to admit that they probably believe most of what they’ve heard about climate change, but choose to repeat the “skeptic” riffs in order to advance their real agenda, I might have some respect for them.

But they won’t, so I don’t.

As to what their real agenda is, look no further than Turd’s dark murmurings about those “crooks at the UN.” Essentially, movement conservatives want to ensure that our empire’s grand legacy of imperialism, genocide and resource plundering isn’t tempered by a deathbed confession, that maybe those brown folks in the lands we’d exploited deserved just a little shot of their own, too, and that maybe we should oughta ease up just a little bit in order to let them play a bit of catch-up while we apply a gentle tap on our own brakes. Just to be sporting? We can’t have that. You spoil the natives if you do that.

(Yeah, I exaggerate by as much as 10%, but it’s the Interwebs and I’ve found that this sort of shorthand works way better than the “Public Option of I’ll Pee my Pants” approach.)

Anyway, USinUK, enjoy arguing with mike, the Concern Troll Supremo. Pointless as it may be, I do so enjoy hearing a real pro regurgitate Bush/Cheney’s ca-ca belli.

later, all.

Zedd

September 25th, 2009
9:09 am

Jay, we ain’t buying it or paying for it! If you think the Democraps are having trouble with their so called healthcare reform, just wait until they try and pass this cap and trade. Come 2010 nothing less than their heads on a platter will suffice!

Dudley Doright

September 25th, 2009
9:09 am

stands for decibels

My brain on Rush? Are you saying the big meeting in DC that Al Gore was to attend wasn’t cancelled because of the snow/ice storm? If so, you’re brain is dead.

Dudley Doright

September 25th, 2009
9:11 am

AmVet

I’d love to see your list as well, “dud”!

Mrs. Godzilla

September 25th, 2009
9:11 am

Yep cap and trade did such a baaaaad job on acid rain……

The Cap and Trade Success Story

http://www.edf.org/page.cfm?tagID=1085

te hee hee

Finn McCool

September 25th, 2009
9:12 am

Deniers, here is your argument in a nutshell.

Jesus loves me
This I know
For the Bible Tells Me So…

You have no grasp of reality so why even bother complaining on here? The promised land awaits. Smile and get back to lah-lah land.

Let the adults, currently in power, sort out the problems so you can remain in the aforementioned lah-lah land.

Mrs. Godzilla

September 25th, 2009
9:12 am

Dudley

The list

please