A cage match between birthers and truthers
In an effort to gauge “fringe” sentiments, Public Policy Polling added a couple of interesting questions to its recent national poll:
“Do you think Barack Obama was born in the United States?”
“Do you think President Bush intentionally allowed the 9/11 attacks to take place because
he wanted the United States to go to war in the Middle East?”
Over at Pollster.com, Brendan Nyhan put the results into a chart, broken down by party affiliation. 
The chart combines those who said “yes” and those who said they were uncertain. For example, 25 percent of Democrats said they believed Bush had allowed the attacks of 9/11 to take place, while another 12 percent said they weren’t sure. Nyhan charts that at 37 percent.
Likewise, 42 percent of Republicans said they believe Obama was not born in the United States, and another 22 percent said they weren’t sure, for a total on the chart of 64 percent.
Personally, I doubt the numbers are that high. In the course of answering a poll, people can tend to treat statements like these as expressions of political loyalty or antipathy. They don’t really believe that Bush allowed Sept. 11 to happen or that Obama isn’t a citizen, but the question gives them a way to voice their more general opposition to those figures.
At least that’s what I keep telling myself, because otherwise I’d have to believe there are a lot of crazy people in this country.
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313 comments Add your comment
USinUK
September 24th, 2009
11:38 am
oh … and … HI BOSCH!! (waving)
Doggone/GA
September 24th, 2009
11:38 am
“USinUK, get it through your thick skull, I don’t answer to you!”
OOOOH! Zedd DOES have very thin skin!
Soothsayer
September 24th, 2009
11:38 am
Some boring old economy stuff. You probably wouldn’t be interested in reading it.
Dudley Doright
September 24th, 2009
11:38 am
All, I find this very interesting. My sixth post for the day is “awaiting moderation”. Awaiting moderation? Nothing inflammatory, no name calling, etc. I guess it goes to show that Jay doesn’t like too many posts with a right-leaning slant.
USinUK, you’ve had over 30 posts today. Have any been “awaiting moderation”? Just sayin……
Mrs. Godzilla
September 24th, 2009
11:38 am
dB
maybe its 666 with a 222 added to confuse the issue……
AmVet
September 24th, 2009
11:39 am
Another footnote, that figure of $622 billion for Iraq appears incorrect,. By years end it will actually be about $694 billion. Not that $70 billion here or there is a big deal!
BushCo’s botched, needless clusterf&ck is second now in cost ONLY to WWII, having passed even Viet Nam.
Way to go conned…
Hef
September 24th, 2009
11:40 am
Bosch-I don’t have problem with assistance,heck who knows I may need it.But for as much that has been sunk into welfare you’d think we would’ve seen much better results.
Doggone/GA
September 24th, 2009
11:41 am
“Because of his refusal, I can see how the uptick in Republican responses occurred”
First rule of the conned: NEVER let a good lie die.
Bosch
September 24th, 2009
11:42 am
Public Option,
Thanks, but I inhaled – I guess there goes my chances.
USinUK,
Waving back!!!
Dudley,
Yes, that proves everything
or it could be the for the umpteenth time, it’s the software that doesn’t like your post for some reason, so if you’re gonna blame somebody or something, blame the software producers.
USinUK
September 24th, 2009
11:42 am
“USinUK, you’ve had over 30 posts today. Have any been “awaiting moderation”? Just sayin……”
use only 1 link per entry
watch words that look benign but aren’t (thinks that start with c- and end in -tails and -roach have caught me up in the past)
break up the post into smaller bits and you’ll figure out what tripped the bot
and, most importantly, make live human sacrifices to the bot (or at the very least, be sure to pour a beer on your keyboard … it works! no, really!)
Bosch
September 24th, 2009
11:45 am
Hef,
Again, better results are in the eye of the beholder. I think it’s better to not have homeless people wondering the streets begging for food and more cardboard box communities (although most “projects” aren’t that much better). I don’t think anyone strives to live on welfare, and I think it’s more important to look at reasons why so many wind up there.
USinUK
September 24th, 2009
11:46 am
“But for as much that has been sunk into welfare you’d think we would’ve seen much better results.”
I dunno … keeping millions of kids from going to school hungry is a pretty danged good result. providing women who have young children with food is a pretty danged good result. providing the poor with housing is a pretty danged good result (especially in areas where they didn’t concentrate the housing – like in Arlington, VA).
it’s not a tangible thing like walking on the moon – you have to work backwards and think about how many kids (and adults, for that matter) would have died from malnutrition, etc.
Doggone/GA
September 24th, 2009
11:47 am
“Bosch–I can show you a website where you can order your birth certificate for $15 bucks”
Except, of course, you WON’T get your “original” birth certificate. What you will get is an official copy…which may, or may not, be an exact copy of the original…it depends on the state. Which is what Obama posted on his website, which was verified by the state of Hawaii, and which was examined and verified by Fact Check. The OFFICIAL COPY of his birth certificate.
NO STATE will send you the original, because that is the official, recorded and retained state record of your birth. And in many states it actually no longer exists because they put a scan of it in electronic records and the DESTROY THE ORIGINAL.
Bosch
September 24th, 2009
11:48 am
And Dudley,
I usually have at least one post per day moderated – but you don’t hear me concocting some kind of wild conspiracy theory against myself – I don’t take myself that seriously, because this is, after all, just a blog.
I do usually type “Blog God!!!” afterwards, but that’s all in good fun.
USinUK
September 24th, 2009
11:51 am
Bosch –
(pssst … tell him how pouring beer on your keyboard really does appease the bot!!!)
mike
September 24th, 2009
11:51 am
Normal –
“Mike our Government willingly killed 58+thousand over ten years”
That is not true at all. That is the total casualty count of Iraqi civilians and a fraction of them were killed by us.
The sacntions that you folks all claim were “working” were estimated by the UN to have resulted in the death of 500k Iraq children. None of Bush’s critics ever want to say that.
“willingly killing 4000+ more now and that’s through four administrations, or does killing soldiers not count?”
We are not killing them. They are volunteer soldiers who are dying in combat. Please don’t’ let your rhetorical flourishes get in the way of reality.
I guess you think that we are killing cops because cops die in the line of duty. Do you?
Jay
September 24th, 2009
11:51 am
So Zedd, my suspicions were correct. The folks who generated that number did so by redefining welfare to include Medicaid, the Earned Income Tax Credit (paid only to the working poor), job training and other programs in addition to the relatively small program typically defined as welfare. As the Heritage Foundation site acknowledges, roughly half of that number includes support for the elderly and disabled.
And isn’t it odd that the Heritage Foundation did not redefine “welfare” in a similar way under George Bush.
Or maybe it isn’t odd at all.
Public Option's Doing Swell
September 24th, 2009
11:54 am
@ Duh Del–
Obama posted his birth certificate on the WH website months ago. You have a finite life span, and you waste your life even thinking about it. Find a real issue to get engaged in and study.
mike
September 24th, 2009
11:54 am
Normal –
“Mike, I’ll have to google Savage, but how is Jay a war profiteer? Does he own stock in General Dynamics? You are going to have to explain that one…”
Sure. This is a metaphor. Just as in war there are a small few who profit from the destruction that they facilitate, so are partisan pundits among the small few who profit from the destruction that they facilitate.
Jay
September 24th, 2009
11:55 am
And Dudley, if we were moderating comments based on ideology, surely we also would have moderated your complaint about moderating comments, right?
Bosch
September 24th, 2009
11:55 am
Gotta run taters! Off to the big city!!!
stands for decibels
September 24th, 2009
11:57 am
I want to add, along with Bosch and USinUK’s comments about this “welfare,” that it’s all fairly meaningless without an apples:apples comparison of what we spend versus our international competitors.
And factor in such things as nonexistent workers’ rights (right to work, my ass), a pitiful minimum wage, a look-the-other-way policy toward competition from undocumented workers and, well, I could go on, but it’s a lot easier to simply assert that the Heritage Foundation has its reasons for pushing these memes, and one of them is to get us distracted.
Worked real good, it did!
mike
September 24th, 2009
11:57 am
Jay –
Do you think that all of the people who responded to the survey who said that they that Obama was/could have been born out of country “birthers”?
You think that a pretty good portion of them might be just people who just didn’t know and didn’t care?
Don’t you think that the poor wording of the question inflates the number of “birthers”?
Doggone/GA
September 24th, 2009
11:57 am
“are volunteer soldiers who are dying in combat. Please don’t’ let your rhetorical flourishes get in the way of reality.”
Here’s a reality statement for you: an ALL VOLUNTEER armed force makes it incumbent upon their officers and leaders to BE SURE their lives and sacrifice aren’t wasted. Attacking a country that was NO THREAT TO US wasted those 4000+ lives (and the lives of all others who died, no matter WHO actually killed them)
Do you really think we needed a WAR to end the sanctions against Iraq?
Kamchak
September 24th, 2009
11:58 am
and most importantly, make live human sacrifices to the bot…
I’ve found that a prayer to St. Vidicon of the Cathode works just as well and there’s no problem with the local authorities about missing persons, crime scenes, blood soaked evidence,…
Public Option's Doing Swell
September 24th, 2009
11:59 am
Carley Fiorina who was fired from HP after she lost 17,000 employees, and devalued the company by 50% is going to run against Barbara Boxer for Senate. She has a whackjob website with a big pu_sy cat and the slogan “Carlyfornia.” Ouch
Jay’s filter maven, who also was responsible for translation of intercepts in the days prior to 911 is paranoid of the term p_ssy cat. Some people have dogs and some have cats tell him or her.
Doggone/GA
September 24th, 2009
11:59 am
“You think that a pretty good portion of them might be just people who just didn’t know and didn’t care?”
They cared enough to answer, didn’t they?
md
September 24th, 2009
12:00 pm
“however, there were many ways Bush, Condi, and the arrogant NSA, and CIA could have stopped the hijackers including not to take them off the intercept at the airport list which is precisely what was done because of the arrogance of a woman who is still at the CIA.”
A little hard to stop them at the airport when many of them were here prior to Bush taking office.
RollerGirl
September 24th, 2009
12:00 pm
jay, there ARE a lot of crazy people in this country…we call them liberals.
And somewhere in kenya, a village is STILL missing it’s idiot..
Public Option's Doing Swell
September 24th, 2009
12:00 pm
Amen to Doggone’s comment on Iraq. Somehow I don’t see all those gung ho Afghanistan troops build uppers pushing the Draft it would take to do it.
USinUK
September 24th, 2009
12:01 pm
Kam –
while he’s no Flying Spaghetti Monster, St. Vidicon is pretty great!
(I’m soooo forwarding to the mister)
Public Option's Doing Swell
September 24th, 2009
12:02 pm
Roller Girl could not have possibly gained admission to Vandy. I want to see a diploma. Yoouru can span it and post a flickr linke in 10 seconds–or get your friend to show you how in your case.
mike
September 24th, 2009
12:03 pm
Doggone –
All shouting in caps aside, claiming that our government is killing our troops in way that is comparable to the murder of the victims of 9/11 is absurd.
“Here’s a reality statement for you: an ALL VOLUNTEER armed force makes it incumbent upon their officers and leaders to BE SURE their lives and sacrifice aren’t wasted.”
Does that apply to Obama in Afghanistan now? If we pull out in defeat, will you call him a killer too?
“Do you really think we needed a WAR to end the sanctions against Iraq?”
Please tell me what they are and tell me why Clinton didn’t use them.
The truth is that none of Bush’s critics knew or cared about the Iraqi kids who were bing killed by the sanctions. They just want to use Iraqi deaths as a cudgel to make partisan points.
USinUK
September 24th, 2009
12:04 pm
md –
“A little hard to stop them at the airport when many of them were here prior to Bush taking office.”
that’s right … I meant to address this earlier … they were hear on TOURIST visas (except for 1), which means that they weren’t living here permanently, only for a few months at a time. so, yes, they actually DID have to reenter the country after Bush was president
Morningstar
September 24th, 2009
12:04 pm
I’m a little late a’lurkin and a’scannin crazy stuff today, but I’m with that Converted Redneck, or whatever he calls himself, Bush did not permit 9-11. NO! He did not! He was so stunned out of his wits, he could hardly pronounce those one syllable words in My Pet Goat…..I mean just ’cause those terrorists were our biggest threat, and the thoughts of how to handle, which way to go, was enough to make a feller’s head hurt, don’t mean he let it happen for Goshsakes. He was terrified.
Obama not a citizen? I’m sure if he could think hard enough, he could remember exactly where his Mom was when he was born. I mean “Good Golly Miss Molly” what’s a memory for if not to remember?
The birthers, deathers, and Bush knew about 9/11 crowd probably all were left by the stork. Or “When the Lord said brains”………..
USinUK
September 24th, 2009
12:04 pm
dantigall … they were HERE (not hear) on tourist visas …
Mmm, mmm, mmm Barack Hussein Obama
September 24th, 2009
12:05 pm
This is the most disgusting video I’ve seen in a long time. It makes my skin crawl.
This is exactly what happened during the Hitler Youth era. It is happening today in America. Anybody who tries this sort of garbage with my family will meet Mr. Lights Out!
This ought to scare all of you…. Imagine if the name were changed to George Walker Bush. How many of you liberals would be howling at the school and the principal.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zrsl8o4ZPo
SCARY, SCARY, SCARY !!!!!!!!!!!!
I especially love the part where they talk about all of his accomplishments…… LMAO. What accomplishments? He got elected…. That’s it.
Obama hasn’t gotten anything done yet… It’s only been 9 months.
Del
September 24th, 2009
12:05 pm
Bosch anyone can get a copy of his or her birth certificate by simply contacting the public records dept. in the county and state of their birth. While there are Obama haters I don’t see the evidence of it coming any where near those who hated and attacked GWB. Many Americans including a growing number of those who voted for Obama find it extremely disconcerting that he is so intense about putting ideology ahead of the people in a disturbing number of ways. The majority don’t hate him they are just concerned about his real agenda and what he meant when he said he was going to “fundamentally transform America”.
mike
September 24th, 2009
12:06 pm
Doggone –
“They cared enough to answer, didn’t they?”
This makes no sense. So just the fact that they answered the poll meant that they had a strong and informed position on the matter? Give me a break.
You don’t seem to know how polling works. They don’t call, ask you the question and then see if you want to participate.
Man, your logic is just sad.
USinUK
September 24th, 2009
12:08 pm
“Please tell me what they are and tell me why Clinton didn’t use them.”
Look it up – Clinton DID enact sanctions against Iraq (which were very controversial at the time, with accusations that his limiting imports into the country was causing the death of thousands)
plus, he limited Saddam’s movements via the no-fly zone.
Normal
September 24th, 2009
12:08 pm
MIKE: the 58000 was Viet Nam… You think they all volenteered?
——————
We are not killing them. They are volunteer soldiers who are dying in combat. Please don’t’ let your rhetorical flourishes get in the way of reality.
They wouldn’t have been there to die if your government hadn’t sent them. Give it a break.
—————-
That statement is so ridiculous it is beyond the pale, and just serves to remind me that you do not debate you just scream “Je accuse”…
Your attitude of God made Repulicans and Hades is for all the othersis, well, it’s beyond belief. How many friends do you have? Your righteous indignation is wearing thin. You really have to open both eyes. And I’ll bet that you think I just called you names…but I didn’t.
Doggone/GA
September 24th, 2009
12:09 pm
“All shouting in caps aside”
GET OVER IT
“claiming that our government is killing our troops in way that is comparable to the murder of the victims of 9/11 is absurd”
BUT I NEVER MADE THAT CLAIM, ONLY YOU DID…JUST NOW
“Does that apply to Obama in Afghanistan now? If we pull out in defeat, will you call him a killer too?”
WE HAD A LEGITIMATE COMPLAINT AGAINST AFGHANISTAN, WE DIDN’T AGAINST IRAQ
“Please tell me what they are and tell me why Clinton didn’t use them. ”
WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH STARTING A WAR TO END THEM?
“The truth is that none of Bush’s critics knew or cared about the Iraqi kids who were bing killed by the sanctions.”
NONE? WHERE’S YOUR PROOF OF THAT?
“They just want to use Iraqi deaths as a cudgel to make partisan points.”
I SEE THOSE DEAD KIDS USED FAR MORE BY THE CONNED AS A VALID REASON FOR STARTING THE WAR THAN I EVER DO FROM ANYONE ELSE.
Normal
September 24th, 2009
12:09 pm
MIKE: the 58000 was Viet Nam… You think they all volenteered?
——————
Hef
September 24th, 2009
12:10 pm
Bosch@11:45-I agree with you.I’m just sayin the program has been a major money pit,with results that are marginal at best. Another example of a poorly run govnmnt program,something we should be used to by now. If ever there was a program in need of reform,welfare should be up near the top of the list.Just my opinion
mike
September 24th, 2009
12:10 pm
USinUK –
“Look it up – Clinton DID enact sanctions against Iraq (which were very controversial at the time, with accusations that his limiting imports into the country was causing the death of thousands)”
You aren’t reading very well today. I was asking Doggone what the means to end the sanctions were and why didn’t Clinton use them.
Normal
September 24th, 2009
12:11 pm
We are not killing them. They are volunteer soldiers who are dying in combat. Please don’t’ let your rhetorical flourishes get in the way of reality.
—————-
That statement is so ridiculous it is beyond the pale, and just serves to remind me that you do not debate you just scream “Je accuse”…
Your attitude of God made Repulicans and Hades is for all the othersis, well, it’s beyond belief. How many friends do you have? Your righteous indignation is wearing thin. You really have to open both eyes. And I’ll bet that you think I just called you names…but I didn’t.
Turd Ferguson
September 24th, 2009
12:11 pm
Mmm, mmm, mmm Barack Hussein Obama
September 24th, 2009
12:05 pm
Yeppers…have also seen that and the teachers responsible should be terminated. Shameful at best.
mike
September 24th, 2009
12:12 pm
Normal –
“MIKE: the 58000 was Viet Nam… You think they all volenteered?:
Sorry. That number is close to the Iraq civilian casualty count and I thought that was what you were talking about. Wasn’t that clear from my response.
What about my question about police deaths? Are they police being “killed” by our government too?
Normal
September 24th, 2009
12:12 pm
Jay, what is going on… I’m trying to answer Mike and I’m not cussin’
What’s up with that?
Trapper John
September 24th, 2009
12:12 pm
Hey, I think its gonna Martini.
md
September 24th, 2009
12:13 pm
” I don’t think anyone strives to live on welfare, and I think it’s more important to look at reasons why so many wind up there.”
What a naive comment. Come visit my neck of the woods and I’ll be happy to introduce you to plenty of folks that think their gov’t assistance is their “paycheck”. They have played the system so long it has become a lifestyle. What incentive do they have to ever give that up? Go out and work for it? – hardly. Lets see, go to work for 40 hours and get money or stay home and get money. Which would you choose? And I’ll say it again because you like think it isn’t happening – come see me and I’ll show you plenty of examples.
Just because you may not see it does not mean it does not happen. The system has tons of waste and minimal checks and balances. No different than getting “medical” pot in CA. Tell the doc you can’t sleep at night and walla – legal pot.
Mmm, mmm, mmm Barack Hussein Obama
September 24th, 2009
12:13 pm
Mmm, mmm, mmm we want to see your transcripts. Mmm, mmm, mmm where were you really born? Mmm, mmm, mmm why are all your records sealed? Mmm, mmm, mmm why are you so scared of your history? Mmm, mmm, mmm we deserve to know. Mmm, mmm, mmm release your personal records and returns. Mmm, mmm, mmm you trained the ACORN armies. Mmm, mmm, mmm your buddies are terrorists from the sixties. Mmm, mmm, mmm we ain’t going away Barry.
Normal
September 24th, 2009
12:14 pm
Normal Your comment is awaiting moderation.
September 24th, 2009
12:11 pm
We are not killing them. They are volunteer soldiers who are dying in combat. Please don’t’ let your rhetorical flourishes get in the way of reality.
—————-
That statement is so ridiculous it is beyond the pale, and just serves to remind me that you do not debate you just scream “Je accuse”…
Your attitude of G-d made Repulicans and Hades is for all the others is, well, it’s beyond belief. How many friends do you have? Your righteous indignation is wearing thin. You really have to open both eyes. And I’ll bet that you think I just called you names…but I didn’t.
Public Option's Doing Swell
September 24th, 2009
12:14 pm
Senator Bill Nelson from Florida is offering an amendment now to kill the donut in Medicare Part D that the Repubozo insurance hookers made to keep Medicare recipients from buying their medications, and making them choose between groceries. This would put Medicare on a sound financial footing. This is the law that Frist and the Repubozo’s passed in 2003 and would kill the secret deal that the Senate Finance Six and Rahm Emanuel made with Billy Tauzin former House Energy Chairman and million dollar a year employee.
The Repubozos who have taken millions from pharmaceutical companies are rushing to protect their johns like all good hookers. This is high drama for free on C-Span 2 and this amendment is a big deal. I
It’s to allow competitive bidding just like Piedmont and Emory enjoy which would financially stabilize Medicare. The pharmaceuticals oppose it with a passion because they enjoy trillions and I mean trillions of profits over a few years because of it. This is the Repubozos protecting the people who bribe them pure and simple. Grassley’s argument suggests there are a nunber of antipsychotic drugs he should be on. This is the ultimate metaphor for the Senate being on the take.
USinUK
September 24th, 2009
12:15 pm
mike –
“You aren’t reading very well today”
I think I have mike-block
Normal
September 24th, 2009
12:15 pm
This is stupid, I’m history. It’s been fun, NOT!
mike
September 24th, 2009
12:18 pm
Doggone –
Look if you want to be rude and annoying that is your right. You can talk on your cell phone in the middle of restaurant too.
“But I never made that claim…”
No but Normal did and you jumped into the middle of that conversation with your comment to me.
“Legitimate complain against Afghanistan…”
Yes, but if it is a failure and lives are wasted, by your own definition Obama is a killer too. Of course the only standard that you care about is partisan in nature, so who cares about the rest.
“What does that have to do with starting a war..”
You said that there were ways besides war to end the sanctions. I asked you what they were and why Clinton didn’t use them but you are unable to.
“Where is the proof of that…”
Because there were no protests against the deaths caused by sanctions, no angry editorials and no documentaries about the subject. What planet do you live on?
Trapper John
September 24th, 2009
12:18 pm
” I don’t think anyone strives to live on welfare, and I think it’s more important to look at reasons why so many wind up there.”
LOL…go visit Carver Homes if they havent destroyed it.
Jay
September 24th, 2009
12:18 pm
Normal, your post has been freed. Sorry about that.
And listen everyone, I try to free up trapped posts every time I see them, but I can’t be on this site every minute. I do however check my email very often. If something gets hung up, email me at jbookman@ajc.com and I will immediately jump to the site to fix the problem.
mike
September 24th, 2009
12:18 pm
USinUK –
“I think I have mike-block”
I guess, except that you also misread Bookman’s post earlier
Dudley Doright
September 24th, 2009
12:19 pm
Jay, no I’m not surprised at all that my post about you moderating posts wasn’t “awaiting moderation”. I figured you were probably cruising the Daily Kos to discuss topics with you ideologues and just missed it for a while.
Rather than making light of it, why not offer an explanation why such a benign post such as mine was “awaiting moderation”?
mike
September 24th, 2009
12:19 pm
Jay –
Is everyone who believes that Obama was born out of country or doesn’t know a “birther”?
md
September 24th, 2009
12:20 pm
“only for a few months at a time. so, yes, they actually DID have to reenter the country after Bush was president”
They didn’t go out and come back in. They got lost in the cracks just like the other 20+ million here illegally. You actually think we know where all the folks are that don’t return home after their tourist or student visas expire? There are plenty that stay and get lost here, and the good ole US does nothing about it. Even to this day. Ever heard of “sanctuary cities”, the equivalent to “don’t ask don’t tell” for civilians.
stands for decibels
September 24th, 2009
12:20 pm
but I can’t be on this site every minute.
you’ve CHANGED, man!
USinUK
September 24th, 2009
12:21 pm
mike –
“I guess, except that you also misread Bookman’s post earlier ”
yeah, but that was all your fault, too …
(as is the fact that the link to the document that I need to work on is broken … it’s all your fault today … jsut thought I’d let you know)
mike
September 24th, 2009
12:22 pm
Normal –
“Your attitude of God made Repulicans and Hades is for all the othersis, well, it’s beyond belief.”
What does that load of crap mean? Are you frothing.
And spare me the talk of the “righteous indignation” when you cry when I call Bookman a hypocrite.
Way to duck my question about the police. Not surprised you don’t have an answer.
USinUK
September 24th, 2009
12:23 pm
md –
“They didn’t go out and come back in.”
actually, they did. go back and reread the 9/11 report.
mike
September 24th, 2009
12:23 pm
USinUK –
“it’s all your fault today”
That’s cool. I’d like to give Bush a break from everything being his fault for a little bit.
USinUK
September 24th, 2009
12:24 pm
md –
“The 19 hijackers entered the United States a total of 33 times. They
arrived through ten different airports, though more than half came in
through Miami, JFK, or Newark. A visitor with a tourist visa was
usually admitted for a stay of six months. All but two of the
hijackers were admitted for such stays. Hanjour had a student visa and
was admitted for a stay of two years, and Suqami sought and was
admitted for a stay of 20 days. The four pilots passed through INS and
Customs inspections a total of 17 times before
9/11. Hanjour came to the United States to attend school in three
stints during the 1990s. His final arrival was in December 2000,
through the Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky airport. The other three
pilots, Atta, al Shehhi, and Jarrah, initially came in May and June
2000. They arrived for the last time between May and August 2001″
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/754770.html
Dudley Doright
September 24th, 2009
12:25 pm
Hmmm, let me get this straight.
Jay says he “can’t be on this site every minute”. However, if we email him he will “immediately jump to the site to fix the problem”. If we do email and he “immediately” reacts, does this mean he spends every minute on his email?
Public Option's Doing Swell
September 24th, 2009
12:25 pm
Jay –
No one participates on their site from the AJC or many major papers nearly as much as you do and your time is very much appreciated. But the filters are mystifying. They trap things that are very difficult to understand some times. If there were some rhyme, reason, and rules, then people could try to understand them, but there don’t seem to be as to the filters. And I wish you’d mention to your college Cynthia Tucker that she is comprmising the quality of comments on her blog by not allowing links. I don’t know if she even realizes she’s been set up that way. I don’t know of any newspaper (and they all have comment sections, that stops links from happening, and most allow unlimited numbers of links).
WaPO, NYT, WSJ LAT, etc.
Mrs. Godzilla
September 24th, 2009
12:25 pm
md
if there are folks you know are cheating on welfare….do you patriotic duty and report it
here:
http://oig.georgia.gov/02/oig/home/0,2219,1586806,00.html;jsessionid=97AA21CBB14CF6B95BCA3F0B678FB050
USinUK
September 24th, 2009
12:26 pm
mike –
“That’s cool. I’d like to give Bush a break from everything being his fault for a little bit.”
you’re a giver … what can you say
(I try to do the same for Clinton on occasion, so I know how you feel)
AmVet
September 24th, 2009
12:26 pm
Of course, GWB was not behind the 9/11 attacks.
He just managed to mishandle virtually every single aspect of it before and afterwards.
Excluding initially smoking the Taliban in Afghanistan. BUT…then like the imperious fool he is, he stayed.
And the nations reward for such stunning ineptitude?
They reelected the dolts.
And NOW the screw ups who enabled Dumb and Dumber every step of the way complain bitterly about this CiC.
Who though no freaking bargain, at least is not a total buffoon…
USinUK
September 24th, 2009
12:27 pm
okay, folkses … since I can’t edit this flippin’ document (thanks a LOT, mike), I’mma heading home …
have a good evening!!
Public Option's Doing Swell
September 24th, 2009
12:29 pm
The Max Tax: Baucus Plan Fails to Control Growth of Insurance Premiums: The Los Angeles Times http://bit.ly/114kma
TGT
September 24th, 2009
12:30 pm
Jonah Goldberg had an interesting take on this a couple of weeks ago (seen here):
Herewith, two scenarios.
Scenario A: The supposedly inept president of the United States carefully planned and orchestrated the worst terrorist attack on American soil in our history. Though “only” 3,000 people died, the plan was to kill many more by simultaneously attacking the World Trade Center, the Pentagon and either the U.S. Capitol or the White House itself on Sept. 11, 2001.
Hundreds of people, including personnel from myriad agencies, participated. According to some versions of Scenario A, explosives were placed at the World Trade Center to ensure success. In other versions, all of “the Jews” working there were tipped off by some phone bank run by the Mossad. In every version, however, the U.S. government was in on it, and everyone involved kept the biggest secret in American history.
Then, there’s Scenario B: An ambitious and extremely clever politician, who has at best been selectively forthcoming about large chunks of his youth, lied about his place of birth so he could be eligible for the presidency.
To further this scheme, he has arranged for the full and/or original version of his birth certificate to remain under lock and key. At most, a handful of supporters and lawyers are in on the whole thing.
Now, which one is more believable? For the record, I don’t believe either. But it seems to me the “birther” hypothesis is vastly more plausible than the “truther” hypothesis. Politicians lie to advance their careers. You can look it up. Whole governments rarely orchestrate incredibly complex acts of physics, logistics and mass murder all the while pinning guilt on others (who boast that they acted alone).
Disgusted
September 24th, 2009
12:30 pm
I think Carly’s firing by HP had more to do with the little matter of using company funds to pay private investigators to eavesdrop illegally on the telephone conversations of certain members of the board of directors. You might look it up.
Normal
September 24th, 2009
12:31 pm
MIKE: what worries you the most is you can’t see the difference between domestic duties, like cops being killed in the line of duty protecting Americans in America and Soldiers being sent off to die in an unwinnable war because of Governmental mismanagement and ignorance.
——————-
Your attitude of God made Repulicans and Hades is for all the others is, well, it’s beyond belief.”
What does that load of crap mean? Are you frothing.
That DID hit close to home, didn’t? Otherwise you would have laughed it off. I win!
AmVet
September 24th, 2009
12:32 pm
Seeya, USinUK.
And kudos for suffering fools gladly.
You’re a better soul than I…
And what is it with these incessant paranoid conspiracy theory crybabies who believe their scintillating words of wisdom are alone being intentionally banned?
Grow a pair, enlarge your feeble thinking capabilities and try to grasp this concept – you are not being singled out…
Public Option's Doing Swell
September 24th, 2009
12:34 pm
Baucus Plan–Blue Dogs and Repubs paid heavily by insurance companies, want to raise insurance premiums dramatically–makes sense if you have money to burn
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-healthcare-affordability2-2009sep24,0,3493021.story?page=1
Public Option's Doing Swell
September 24th, 2009
12:36 pm
Disgusted–
You’re right that it was the straw that broke the camel’s back, and it might have been a bigger factor than I realize, but I’m arguing that Carley mismanaged across the board at HP in a number of areas.
Hurd has made some draconian cuts, but for my money he is a much better CEO.
Doggone/GA
September 24th, 2009
12:37 pm
“You said that there were ways besides war to end the sanctions. I asked you what they were and why Clinton didn’t use them but you are unable to”
What other ways? You just STOP doing them. How difficult is that to figure out? As for Clinton, you want to know why HE didn’t end them? You’ll have to ask HIM. I failed basic mind reading, as I’ve said before. Or maybe you can ask one of those other conned who DO read minds. Though be warned, they aren’t very good at it.
Public Option's Doing Swell
September 24th, 2009
12:38 pm
The filters aren’t intentionally banning anyone. But they also aren’t configured very well.
Hef
September 24th, 2009
12:41 pm
Ms Godzilla-@12:25,-I agree report them,but should’nt the agency running the program be held accountable. And does the govmnt really oversee welfare or just write checks? Just askin?
Papa John Philips
September 24th, 2009
12:42 pm
Oh YES…yes I did. Mackenzie is a lovely flower!
md
September 24th, 2009
12:47 pm
usuk
” The passports belonging to eight of the nineteen hijackers had evidence of “fraudulent manipulation” and five had “suspicious indicators.” The report also said that six hijackers, including Mohammad Atta, violated immigration laws either while residing in the US or when entering the US. Five of these were individually questioned by officials, but were eventually allowed to enter the US. Atta was admitted to the US on a tourist visa, despite informing an inspection officer that he was a student in the US. Six of the hijackers had overstayed their visas.”
Looks to me that 6 never went out and came back in.
Public Option's Doing Swell
September 24th, 2009
12:49 pm
Schumer just called Lipitor and Zocor the same drug. They aren’t, and Lipitor is an improvement, but his heart’s in the right place. He’s trying to kill the donut once and for all and it’s a great fight–if they succeed a lot more people over 65 get the drugs that they need. People tend to need a few drugs when they get older–I wish they never aged but they do and they aren’t optional for these people.
They shouldn’t have to spend over two grand out of pocket to get what they need or choose between drugs or between drugs and essentials that they need.
It is just mind boggling amazing to see Republicans like Snowe, Graslly and Ensign arguing to continue to deprive older people of meds they need. A month of not getting her meds and Snowe would change her tune.
I could have sworn that when Ensign’s mistress started black mailing him, his momma and daddy paid her 100 grand. Where could I have gotten that idea? They’d probably pay for his meds if he needed them.
Mrs. Godzilla
September 24th, 2009
12:52 pm
Hef
Hell yes, there should be accountability…..I wonder if the agency tasked with this responsibility is suffering the same issues as say the
FDA and DFACS? (Not enough field officers)
I’ll go a step further – those who see the fraud and turn their heads away rather than reporting it are guilty too.
Mat
September 24th, 2009
12:54 pm
The FBI was too busy to investigate the suspicious behavior of the highjackers because they had more important fish to fry; namely, rooting around the trailer parks of Arkansas in search of women who’d give naughty tales of naughty tails in return for promises of fame, money, and nose jobs. The people have a RIGHT to know!
Normal
September 24th, 2009
12:59 pm
Upstairs, y’all
Gordon
September 24th, 2009
1:00 pm
2 Points:
1) What is so nefarious about not being sure whether or not Obama was born in the United States? Not being born in the United States doesn’t disqualify one from being president. Not being a citizen does. If the question had been “Do you believe Obama is ineligible to be president because of his citizenship?”, the results would be quite different.
2) The plausibility of the birthers idea is much greater than the truthers idea, though neither has any credibility. Of course that isn’t taken into account. A fair comparison would be “Do you believe Obama is really a Russian agent who is part of a plot to lead the Soviet Union to world domination?”. Then you could do an apples-to-apples comparison between the sanity of R’s and D’s on these issues.
The purpose of this article was to highlight the tall blue bar for the Republicans. Republicans are just crazy, so let’s ignore their objections to Obama’s policies. Carter’s claim that a significant number of people don’t like having a black president didn’t convince anyone, and neither will this. At least not anyone with a brain.
Public Option's Doing Swell
September 24th, 2009
1:06 pm
The first amendment to fix Medicare Part D and get seniors their meds fails 13-10. It helps me know who to hate in the Senate. It also puts a Gold W for pharmaceutical whore on the chest of everyhone who voted “No.” There will be several others, there are four other bills that do it, and there are miles to go before the final law is passed around Christmas.
Dr. Grandma Grassley says yeast and rice will bring up your HDL and lower your LDL, and control cholesterol much better than drugs. If you want to lower your cardiac risk, run out to the nearest grocery and don’t accept an substitute for Grandma Grassley’s Repubozo Nutzo Cholesterols Cure.
From Grassley: “They don’t need no stinkin’ HMG Co-A Reductase Inhibitors.
His employers at pharma wouldn’t be happy.
I hope you all find that birth certificate. Is their an amendment in the Senate Finance Committee? Well their oughta be. Maybe Grandma Grassley will intro it. Ah don’t understand how a Kenyan citizen be presoodunt of US. Got to go to work and make sure mah babuhs isn’t in school and is home watchin’ reruns of Atlanta Housewife Trashinistas.
Hef
September 24th, 2009
1:14 pm
MsGodzilla-Who oversee’s (is that a word?) the overseeyer’s(I know that’s not a word!). I know that individual states distribute the funds provided them by the fed govnmnt,are there any watchdog groups to monitor the poorly managed & staffed offices?
gatorboy
September 24th, 2009
1:24 pm
Another way for Jay to fill empty space!
Jimmy Carter
September 24th, 2009
1:25 pm
Mista Gordon, please tenda your resignation by the end of the day.
mike
September 24th, 2009
1:34 pm
Normal –
“That DID hit close to home, didn’t? Otherwise you would have laughed it off. I win!”
It didn’t hit close to him because it was incoherent. I think it had something to do with the fact that I think all Republicans are great and everyone else is bad. This is utter nonsense. As my posts cleary state I think both sides are the same.
You need to get some control over your anger. It is making you irrational.
Paul
September 24th, 2009
1:34 pm
Public Option
[[It is just mind boggling amazing to see Republicans like Snowe, Graslly and Ensign arguing to continue to deprive older people of meds they need.]]
Do you have a source for that? Because it’s the Democratic plan coming out of the Senate Finance Committee that doesn’t close the donut hole.
http://www.medicarerights.org/medicarewatch.html
The House bill eliminates the gap.
mike
September 24th, 2009
1:40 pm
Public Option –
“It is just mind boggling amazing to see Republicans like Snowe, Graslly and Ensign arguing to continue to deprive older people of meds they need.”
Easy with the fear tactics or GayGreek is going to call you out. Oh wait. You share his views so he doesn’t care about your fear-mongering.
GayGrayGeek
September 24th, 2009
1:49 pm
mike, YOU are the one who said “fear”. It’s only you wingnuts who are so incredibly enamoured with the concept of FEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEER.
Project much, darlin’?