A cage match between birthers and truthers
In an effort to gauge “fringe” sentiments, Public Policy Polling added a couple of interesting questions to its recent national poll:
“Do you think Barack Obama was born in the United States?”
“Do you think President Bush intentionally allowed the 9/11 attacks to take place because
he wanted the United States to go to war in the Middle East?”
Over at Pollster.com, Brendan Nyhan put the results into a chart, broken down by party affiliation. 
The chart combines those who said “yes” and those who said they were uncertain. For example, 25 percent of Democrats said they believed Bush had allowed the attacks of 9/11 to take place, while another 12 percent said they weren’t sure. Nyhan charts that at 37 percent.
Likewise, 42 percent of Republicans said they believe Obama was not born in the United States, and another 22 percent said they weren’t sure, for a total on the chart of 64 percent.
Personally, I doubt the numbers are that high. In the course of answering a poll, people can tend to treat statements like these as expressions of political loyalty or antipathy. They don’t really believe that Bush allowed Sept. 11 to happen or that Obama isn’t a citizen, but the question gives them a way to voice their more general opposition to those figures.
At least that’s what I keep telling myself, because otherwise I’d have to believe there are a lot of crazy people in this country.
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313 comments Add your comment
USinUK
September 24th, 2009
9:41 am
md –
“A so called “chickenhawk” administration takes office after the bombing of a US warship, and we are led to believe that there was nothing going on behind the scenes.”
please see the 9/11 commission report. Ashcroft moved terrorism way down the list of DoJ priorities. The Bush administration didn’t both to meet with the head of the NSC’s anti-terrorism branch. if there were things going on behind the scenes, it would have started with those two areas.
Paul
September 24th, 2009
9:42 am
Mrs. Godzilla,
Ah, I see your point.
Here’s the difference (and the personal pronouns do not refer to you and me).
If you use the flag in political protest, it’s desecration.
If I use the flag, it’s political speech and it’s okay.
Especially if there’s a buck in it.
Curious Observer
September 24th, 2009
9:43 am
Near as I can tell, there were really only two things that could have been done: arrest suspects who have yet to commit a crime based on weak evidence and implement post 9/12 style airport security.
Let’s see, now. A flight instructor in the Midwest reports to the federal government that he has a Middle Eastern student who wants to learn how to fly a big commercial jet, but doesn’t want to learn how take off in it or land it. I suppose arresting the guy would have been out of the question at that point, but I don’t think it’s asking too much to have the FBI at least question him.
USinUK
September 24th, 2009
9:44 am
md –
“we should have been doing then what we are doing now”
even what we are doing now, tell me what in the hijackers’ history would have prevented them from receiving a tourist (or student) visa to enter the states?
md
September 24th, 2009
9:44 am
“please see the 9/11 commission report. Ashcroft moved terrorism way down the list of DoJ priorities. The Bush administration didn’t both to meet with the head of the NSC’s anti-terrorism branch. if there were things going on behind the scenes, it would have started with those two areas.”
Sorry, but i tend to believe the spooks (CIA) are always in the game, even when there isn’t supposed to be a game. And that is with all presidents.
Doggone/GA
September 24th, 2009
9:45 am
“DoggoneGA, would you please predict a day of rain? Thanks in advance.”
No problem! I definitely predict that it will rain today.
Normal
September 24th, 2009
9:47 am
The Great Carnak says it will rain today somewhere on the planet. He guarentees it…
md
September 24th, 2009
9:48 am
“even what we are doing now, tell me what in the hijackers’ history would have prevented them from receiving a tourist (or student) visa to enter the states?”
Country of origin would definetly put them on the “watch” list. And, if they were observed learning how to not land planes, I’m guessing some red flags may have gone up. The ME has for a long time been the source of extremism, it didn’t start in 2001.
Paul
September 24th, 2009
9:49 am
Doggone/GA
“I definitely predict that it will rain today.”
Somewhere.
Now there’s no uncertainty and you are, once again, 100 percent correct.
(ummmm…. do you have a vision of Saturday’s winning Lotto numbers?)
Taxpayer
September 24th, 2009
9:51 am
If ‘93 had been treated as a worst case scenario such as if the bombing was successful and brought the tower down, then yes, we should have been doing then what we are doing now. Why does it always take the loss of life for our gov’t to do anything.
The government should have insisted that the airlines re-inforce those doors, for one thing. Of course, that is not the only thing the government should have done.
USinUK
September 24th, 2009
9:53 am
“(ummmm…. do you have a vision of Saturday’s winning Lotto numbers?)”
I predict that some of them will be even … and some will be odd.
Yankee
September 24th, 2009
9:54 am
President Obama to JAW-JAW Gov. Perdue request for flood relief “What Flood ? —-> YOU LIE ! Georgia let me repeat GENERAL ELECTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES.
Paul
September 24th, 2009
9:55 am
USinUK
Odd, how even that is oddly even.
stands for decibels
September 24th, 2009
9:56 am
Perhaps I should mention–I’m glad that questions like this do get asked, and that someone is willing to commission such polling.
(I may be alone in this.)
Also, I am a little surprised that nobody has noticed the remarkably similar percentages to these two questions:
Do you think Barack Obama is the Anti-Christ?
and
Do you think George W. Bush is the Anti-Christ?
Checking the poll’s cross-tabs on page 6, the ideological spread on these questions isn’t quite as glaring as one might think.
Mrs. Godzilla
September 24th, 2009
9:56 am
y’all know that Atta took a little flight training at the Gwinnett County Airport…..
Marc
September 24th, 2009
9:57 am
Jay why won’t Obama let us see the original. This would go away if he did that. Since he won’t the natural assumption is that he has something to cover! Any way where are the comments on the lack of competency in or local governments on their handling of the flood? We don’t get enough snow in most places to prevent anyone from going anywhere they want and the city is shut down. On Monday 285, 20 both direction, 78, 92 from the west were impassable neighborhoods are flooded and the government does nothing. It was business as usual. Are you so obsessed with covering Obama’s butt that you completely fail to recognize a catastrophe that is happening around you!!!!
Doggone/GA
September 24th, 2009
10:00 am
“Now I completely support his right to desecrate the flag as part of a peaceful protest, but he better watch out. We know that kind of a sensitive issue with some on the right.
Isn’t it?”
Don’t forget: IOKIYAR
Rodney King
September 24th, 2009
10:01 am
Can’t we all just get along?
How about a compromise like this:
* Bush allowed tower #1 to be hit. Tower #2 was a total shock.
* Obama was CONCEIVED in Hawaii, but was actually born in Africa
Nothing like the middle ground to smooth things out, right?
Rodney King
September 24th, 2009
10:01 am
Can’t we all just get along?
How about a compromise like this:
* Bush allowed tower #1 to be hit. Tower #2 was a total shock.
* Obama was CONCEIVED in Hawaii, but was actually born in Africa
Nothing like the middle ground to smooth things out, right?
Taxpayer
September 24th, 2009
10:01 am
Yankee,
I heard that President Obama had a list of amendments that he proposed adding to Perdue’s request for flood relief. Something about improved storm water runoff, deeper ditches, higher bridges, less impervious surfaces, increased sharing of water with neighbors, flood insurance, etc.
Doggone/GA
September 24th, 2009
10:02 am
“What I find interesting, is that there is no birth certificate.”
And what planet have YOU been living on for the last year or so? The birth certificate was posted on Obama’s webpage, verified as official by the state of Hawaii, and investigated and verified by Fact Check.
stands for decibels
September 24th, 2009
10:03 am
At the risk of splitting hairs, and having to endure the clatter of pearls and the metallic grinding of springs from his fainting couch, I should point out that mike’s assertion @ 8.41,
“Saying that you don’t know whether Obama was born in America does not make you a birther”
…is a textbook case of intellectual dishonesty.
The pollster did not ask: “Do you know Barack Obama was born in the United States?”
Rather, the pollster asked: “Do you think Barack Obama was born in the United States?”
If one thinks Obama was not born in the United States, it is perfectly reasonable to assert that this person is, in fact, and by most folks’ understanding of the current use of the term, a “birther.”
Paul
September 24th, 2009
10:04 am
Marc
[[Jay why won’t Obama let us see the original. This would go away if he did that]]
Why would he want it to go away? Democrats can (and do) paint it as an issue for nuts and they attempt, by association, to get people to think it’s a Republican thing. Even though a whole bunch of Democrats are just as nutty. But people who listen to Democratic strategists come away thinking it’s a Republican thing.
So it’s a win for Democrats to keep playing it as long as they can.
Normal
September 24th, 2009
10:05 am
Kinda, sorta off topic here but I thought this was cute. Scroll down to Ninja Kitty…
http://icanhascheezburger.com/page/508/
Mrs. Godzilla
September 24th, 2009
10:05 am
Doggone….don’t know that…..please teach me new thing
Doggone/GA
September 24th, 2009
10:06 am
“(ummmm…. do you have a vision of Saturday’s winning Lotto numbers?)”
I wish I did…but that “prediction” is a joke. Last week I posted on Wed (I think it was) that the Weather channel was predicting NO days of sunshine until next Monday, and we then had 2 full days of sun! So I’m predicting rain again, so that it will be nice in the forest for our resident forester.
Dudley Doright
September 24th, 2009
10:09 am
Gee, I just love polls. After all, they soooooo accurately reveal the truth, right?
For those of you consumed with poll results, try this one: a recent poll revealed that 3/4 of the respondents comprised 75% of those answering the poll. Fascinating, I tell you, just fascinating.
Paul
September 24th, 2009
10:10 am
Doggone/GA
And that illustrates a point many want to ignore when talking about changes in weather: long-term is much easier to see and predict than short-term. In fact, over emphasis on short term (a couple summers) can distort the view of long term (couple centuries).
Doggone/GA
September 24th, 2009
10:12 am
“Country of origin would definetly put them on the “watch” list.”
Being from Saudi Arabia AUTOMATICALLY makes you a suspect? Since when?
Doggone/GA
September 24th, 2009
10:13 am
“And that illustrates a point many want to ignore when talking about changes in weather: long-term is much easier to see and predict than short-term.”
Oh sure. I’ve always like this one: climate is what you expect…weather is what you get.
Alabama Judge
September 24th, 2009
10:14 am
FREE DONALD SIEGELMAN:
http://topics.nytimes.com/topics/reference/timestopics/people/s/donald_siegelman/index.html
Pat
September 24th, 2009
10:16 am
From my own “mother in law polling” (quite unscientific, but a good rough guess, since half my relatives are liberals from South Florida and California and half are teabaggers and/or birthers from North Florida and Georgia) I’d estimate there are more conspiracy crazies on the far right. And the wording of the question, “Do you think Bush allowed the 9/11 attacks” is too vague – many liberals think he “allowed” them by not taking the August memo titled “Al Quaida determined to attack inside U.S.” seriously, dismissing it with a cursory skimming and a flip “cross that off your list” comment to the C.I.A. at the briefing.
But believing Bush guilty of an alarming lack of curiosity or interest in Bin Laden prior to 9/11 is a far cry from the few far-left “truthers” who think he orchestrated it with his Saudi pals to seize unlimited power due to a bogus “threat”, a la the film “Wag the Dog.” But with Bush/Cheney’s other outrageous REAL power grabs, that conspiracy theory is somewhat understandable, given the moral bankruptcy of Bush/Cheney – but it’s just not credible.
I could be wrong – if so, looks like both parties are fairly equally stocked up on crazy.
Taxpayer
September 24th, 2009
10:19 am
The cross-tabs are actually quite informative, for me, that is (I like numbers though.). For example, from the Bush 9/11 question, of those saying “Yes”, only 27% voted for Obama. But, for the Obama born in US question, 43% of those saying “No” voted for McCain.
USinUK
September 24th, 2009
10:19 am
Normal –
http://icanhascheezburger.com/page/2/
death from above was the one that made me snort
Zedd
September 24th, 2009
10:24 am
The Congressional Research Service tells us that the total cost of the Iraq war under President Bush was $622 billion. Do you have any clue how much Obama is going to spend on welfare, treating America’s parasite infestation, in just 2010 alone? Care to guess? Well … let’s try $888 billion. Yup, you got it. That’s about $260 billion more than the cost of the Iraq war under Bush. And what will we get for that money? An entrenched welfare class, that’s what. Our parasite problem will become even worse. Frankly, we got a lot more bang for the buck out of the war in Iraq.
The Democrats rejected an amendment to the healthcare bill that would have required the House to post the final text of major bills online at least 72 hours before voting on them.
TnGelding
September 24th, 2009
10:25 am
Apologies if this has already been posted:
“New jobless claims drop unexpectedly to 530K”
“The four-week average of jobless claims, which smooths out fluctuations, dropped to 553,500. That’s the lowest since late January, though still far above the 325,000 weekly claims typical in a healthy economy.”
http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_ECONOMY?SITE=GACAT&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
Kamchak
September 24th, 2009
10:28 am
Mrs. Godzilla
IOKIYAR = It’s ok if you’re a republican.
Mrs. Godzilla
September 24th, 2009
10:28 am
entrenched welfare class……there’s your sign!
Mrs. Godzilla
September 24th, 2009
10:30 am
Thanks Kamchak
I’m still hoping GFY means good for you. I don’t like all that
hate-a-rama, hatee hateful stuff.
USinUK
September 24th, 2009
10:32 am
“Frankly, we got a lot more bang for the buck out of the war in Iraq.”
oh, REEELLY … what, exactly, did our “bang for the buck” get in Iraq for $622 billion???
USinUK
September 24th, 2009
10:33 am
“I’m still hoping GFY means good for you”
you mean it doesn’t?
Normal
September 24th, 2009
10:33 am
USinUK..This what I use for wallpaper on my work computer…after all, I ama repair tech…
http://icanhascheezburger.com/2007/01/12/wait-ill-fix-it-2/
Doggone/GA
September 24th, 2009
10:34 am
“Frankly, we got a lot more bang for the buck out of the war in Iraq.”
Oh yeah! We ONLY got 4000+ dead solidiers for the money.
Taxpayer
September 24th, 2009
10:37 am
These questions are just stupid, stupid, stoopid. I mean, anyone with any expertise at all, that is being honest with you, will tell you that this is not the way to go about getting the truth from someone regarding their knowledge on these issues and it is just pure torture to think otherwise.
Mrs. Godzilla
September 24th, 2009
10:38 am
4000 plus American bangs
and a large argument over the number of Iraqi bangs….
oh and just a reminder the costs of the Iraq war will last for decades,
we have thousands of fine young American men and women who will need our care for the rest pf their lives.
bang bang…
Paul
September 24th, 2009
10:39 am
Pat
As has been noted, ‘allowed’ is far, far different than ‘intentionally allowed.’ Cuts out most of the ability to give the folks who answered ‘yes’ much wiggle room.
USinUK
September 24th, 2009
10:42 am
doggone –
“Oh yeah! We ONLY got 4000+ dead solidiers for the money.”
let’s not forget:
Lost & Unaccounted for in Iraq – $9 billion of US taxpayers’ money and $549.7 milion in spare parts shipped in 2004 to US contractors. Also, per ABC News, 190,000 guns, including 110,000 AK-47 rifles.
Missing – $1 billion in tractor trailers, tank recovery vehicles, machine guns, rocket-propelled grenades and other equipment and services provided to the Iraqi security forces
Mismanaged & Wasted in Iraq – $10 billion, per Feb 2007 Congressional hearings
Halliburton Overcharges Classified by the Pentagon as Unreasonable and Unsupported – $1.4 billion
Amount paid to KBR, a former Halliburton division, to supply U.S. military in Iraq with food, fuel, housing and other items – $20 billion
Portion of the $20 billion paid to KBR that Pentagon auditors deem “questionable or supportable” – $3.2 billion
US Troops Wounded – 31,483, 20% of which are serious brain or spinal injuries (total excludes psychological injuries)
US Troops with Serious Mental Health Problems – 30% of US troops develop serious mental health problems within 3 to 4 months of returning home
US Military Helicopters Downed in Iraq – 71 total, at least 36 by enemy fire
http://usliberals.about.com/od/homelandsecurit1/a/IraqNumbers.htm
(data taken from the brookings institute)
yeah, babbee … we REEELLY got our bang for the buck there! huzzah!
Steve
September 24th, 2009
10:43 am
and FDR knew about Pearl Harbor, and LBJ let the military go ahead with knocking off JFK (the Oliver Stone twist), TWA 847 was shot down by a Navy missile, etc. etc. Never underestimate how many quacks there are out there. And never overestimate the intelligence of the average person (how many people believe the junk that President Obama is a Muslim, swore his oath on the Koran when he took Senate seat, etc. etc.). Lots of quacks out there…and many of them are armed(!)…
Libertarian
September 24th, 2009
10:44 am
Jay – You really don’t understand. Your blind allegiance to your political party has caused you to miss the big picture. Here is something I read online. You and your hacks on this blog should read this.
Across the nation, there is a sense that average Americans are being hurt by powerful forces that prosper at their expense, in an economy that is unfair, with institutional, financial and political power aligned against them.
This feeling is shared by Tea Party demonstrators, jobless workers and small-business owners who find that banks won’t lend them money while their credit card interest rates rise to punishing levels, workers who lose their health insurance and young people who will be forced to pay back mountains of debt piled high by the gluttony of their elders.
The great fault line in American politics today is not Democratic versus Republican, left versus right or black versus white. It is between the core political and financial power centers and the great silent majority of Americans who want to work hard, play fair, build a better life for their families and be treated fairly by government and business alike.
There is racism in America. There are political leaders who fail to speak out against the politics of hate.
And yet: America has elected our first black president, who is still the most popular figure in national politics. Our first lady has popularity ratings over 70 percent, the envy of elected officials.
What is amazing and unreported by a media that treats our politics like a freak show is the low level of bigotry among young people who are the future of the nation.
As Christmas approaches, there will be stories of humongous Wall Street bonuses alongside stories of unemployment rising above 10 percent and foreclosures remaining at record levels. There will be stories of speculation on Wall Street alongside stories of credit card rates still rising as banks rush to beat the effective date of the new credit card law.
It is not “Merry Christmas” for workers worried about losing their jobs or benefits. It is not “Happy New Year” for those receiving pink slips while others receive giant bonuses.
This is not about race. It is about the reaction when Americans perceive that the few enjoy the prosperity while the many endure the pain.
Americans ask: Where did all this bailout money go? How do we repay these deficits? What did I do to deserve this?
Americans increasingly feel powerless as lobbyists dominate Washington and the cost of the bailouts reaches somewhere between $5 trillion and $23 trillion. Nobody tells Main Street exactly how the money was spent or how it helps the people who paid for it. People believe, often correctly, that they are being screwed.
The most powerful institution in America is the Federal Reserve Board. It bears major responsibility for creating the crisis, deserves credit for action that prevented a second Depression and shares responsibility with the president and Congress for not enacting reforms of abuses that caused the collapse.
Yet the Fed acts largely in secret, without even the audit required of government and public companies, as Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) notes.
Americans watch CEOs make millions of dollars while they outsource jobs to low-wage nations.
So-called green shoots lead to rising stock prices not so much because companies expand business, but because they cut costs, increase layoffs and reduce benefits.
Americans sense something is wrong when the cost of blood and treasure rises in Afghanistan while our corrupt government ally in Kabul steals money and votes.
There is deep concern about the uncertain dangers of enormous deficits, debt, spending and ballooning monetary policy involving government, business and speculators, while the benefits are not apparent to our people.
There is concern about America’s status as world leader when our debt is increasingly owned by foreign nations, our jobs are exported along with our products and our fate is becoming determined by forces beyond our control.
All of these concerns are legitimate. None of them involves racism. The 2010 election will be decided by who gives voice to these legitimate concerns and offers solutions that voters believe will make their lives better.
USinUK
September 24th, 2009
10:44 am
Normal –
I knew I liked you for a reason … the mister is a geek, too (although, he’s more of an IT governance/security geek)
Jay
September 24th, 2009
10:46 am
Zedd, I’d be very interested in the source for your claim of $888 billion in “welfare spending,” and just what that amount includes. Because it seems wildly exaggerated.
Normal
September 24th, 2009
10:47 am
USinUK: Beware of Geeks bearing gifts…
USinUK
September 24th, 2009
10:47 am
Libertarian –
“Across the nation, there is a sense that average Americans are being hurt by powerful forces that prosper at their expense, in an economy that is unfair, with institutional, financial and political power aligned against them.”
that was a good write-up … thank you for sharing …
however, you do realize that, if you truly ARE a Libertarian, you are all for the market regulating itself, don’t you. in other words, if you like “powerful forces that prosper at your expense” – then you’re going to get more of the same following the Libertarian philosophy …
Zedd
September 24th, 2009
10:48 am
The Imperial Federal Government is issuing gag orders against private companies that dare to speak against nationalized health care.
House Republicans have issued a report providing evidence that AARP will receive tens of millions of dollars in “kickbacks” if Democrat healthcare legislation becomes law.
Zedd
September 24th, 2009
10:50 am
Here’s the link Jay in response to your 10:46
http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=54400
Mrs. Godzilla
September 24th, 2009
10:53 am
Libertarian
Does being a libertarian mean you can take a Real Clear Politics post by Brent Budowsky and post it here as if it were your own work?
USinUK
September 24th, 2009
10:55 am
Mrs. G -
in all fairness, Libertarian did say “Here is something I read online.” …
(although, did I tell you my Real Clear Politics story about how they said back in 2007 that there was no WAY that we were heading into a recession???)
USinUK
September 24th, 2009
10:56 am
Zedd –
again, I ask … exactly what WAS the bang for your aforementioned buck??? particularly in light of the waste, corruption and injuries listed above???
Dudley Doright
September 24th, 2009
10:58 am
Good job, Zedd. I wonder if Jay will retract?
Libertarian
September 24th, 2009
10:59 am
Mrs Godzilla,
Actually it was on thehill.com. Authored by Brent Budowsky as you stated.
I didn’t claim it was mine…. Re-read my post. I said, ” Here is something I read online”. I supposed I should have mentioned the author by name. That being said, how many others cut n paste on these blogs?
Nasty, nasty…… get your facts straight before you attack.
USinUK
September 24th, 2009
11:01 am
Dudley – take a chill pill, bill … Jay asked a question, he didn’t accuse Zed of anything … there’s nothing there to “retract”
Hef
September 24th, 2009
11:06 am
Taxpayer@10:19- So there are roughly 50% more right wing wacko’s? Could be true,I think it’s pretty much a 50-50 split with many on the left still in the closet. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
Dudley Doright
September 24th, 2009
11:07 am
USinUK
If you’re so interested in addressing waste, why not look at what bang we’ve received for the trillions of bucks spent on social programs since LBJ’s great society? Has it ended poverty or just created a class of indentured (or dependent) servants? How has the country prospered? What has been the results?
I would think that even you would have to admit the waste and “no bang for the buck” of the war is just a grain of sand on a beach as compared to the waste and “no bang for the buck” expenditures of the great society.
Zedd
September 24th, 2009
11:07 am
USinUK, ask Boortz, those were his comments. You know the standard cut and paste Jay is so fond of.
Kamchak
September 24th, 2009
11:08 am
Has the number of crazies gone up? It seems to me that reporting on the crazies is driving the success of the infotainment industry. I remember a time when the news was boring—now it has to be drama-ed up like a reality show–or talk-radio.
Taxpayer
September 24th, 2009
11:08 am
Zedd,
puhleeeeze, back away from the monitor and pour out the grape flavoraid. You do know who cnsnews is funded by, not to mention the fact that those numbers you share so freely were most likely pulled out of the guys rear end.
Mrs. Godzilla
September 24th, 2009
11:09 am
Libertarian I apologize……
I should have read closer. I admit I see those things posted here often
and do a lot of source checking. I’m pretty good about posting my source.
You did not deserve my nasty, nasty, hate-eriffic post.
I sit head down in sorrow for casting aspersions…..
USinUK
September 24th, 2009
11:09 am
Dudley –
well done on not answering the question (golf clap)
as for the the Great Society / WPA projects – the hungry were fed, the homeless were housed – people have received job training and eduction – did the country prosper? a helluva lot more than if we never had those programs.
Dudley Doright
September 24th, 2009
11:10 am
USinUK
Actually, Jay said the nubmers seemed “wildly exaggerated”. Just wondering if he still feels the same now that Zedd provided the link?
By the way, how lame with the “chill pill” comment. Good grief, do you have “BFFs” and do you text things like “OMG” with your “BFFs”?
USinUK
September 24th, 2009
11:10 am
Zedd –
“USinUK, ask Boortz, those were his comments. You know the standard cut and paste Jay is so fond of.”
well, darlin’, if YOU’RE gonna paste them, then YOU should be ready to defend them …
… so …??? what was said bang for said buck???
Taxpayer
September 24th, 2009
11:13 am
Hef,
I’ll elaborate more from the cross tabs:
The cross-tabs are actually quite informative, for me, that is (I like numbers though.). For example, from the Bush 9/11 question, of the 14% saying “Yes”, only 27% voted for Obama. But, for the Obama born in US question, 43% of the 23% saying “No”, voted for McCain.
Zedd
September 24th, 2009
11:13 am
Taxpayer, no different than Jay or others posting something from biased websites and proclaiming it gospel. BTW, I don’t drink flavoraide, I prefer cold beer or Jack Daniels.
USinUK
September 24th, 2009
11:14 am
Dudley –
“Jay said the nubmers seemed “wildly exaggerated”. Just wondering if he still feels the same now that Zedd provided the link?”
and, again – that’s not an accusation (unless you have skin the depth and density of rice paper)
“By the way, how lame with the “chill pill” comment. Good grief, do you have “BFFs” and do you text things like “OMG” with your “BFFs”?”
awww … diddums … do you not like being called out for acting like a little attack poodle???
Dudley Doright
September 24th, 2009
11:14 am
USinUK
Back at you wit the “well done on not answering the question (golf clap)”
Do you have a grasp of the concept of time? That was a helluva stretch mentioning the WPA. That was created in 1939. LBJ’s great society programs were instituted in 1964. Nothing like a 25 year time warp, right?
The WPA was a TEMPORARY program that was NECESSARY to help get through the depression. Are you making the claim that LBJ’s programs were also temporaty and necessary? If so……..HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
Jackie
September 24th, 2009
11:15 am
Information about CNSNews:
“The CNSNews.com (or Cybercast News Service) is an American news website owned by the Media Research Center. It was founded on June 16, 1998 under the name “Conservative News Service”[1] ; “Conservative” was changed to “Cybercast” in 2000 after the MRC was unable to trademark the name “Conservative News Service.”[citation needed]”
Wonder if those numbers quoted in a previous blog posting can be verified by another source?
md
September 24th, 2009
11:15 am
“and LBJ let the military go ahead with knocking off JFK (the Oliver Stone twist), ”
You may find it interesting that after Clinton assured us that all the JFK files would be released, there is still a lawsuit in court not allowing that to happen. There are to thid day files that are secret in the “best interests of the country”.
Laymans terms – somebody is hiding something.
Zedd
September 24th, 2009
11:15 am
USinUK, get it through your thick skull, I don’t answer to you! Didn’t I ask you to stay on the other side of the pond anyway?
Dudley Doright
September 24th, 2009
11:16 am
USinUK
I kind of figured you were a poodle lover. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
Dudley Doright
September 24th, 2009
11:17 am
Jackie
Do you mean can those number be verified by another “reputable” news source such as CNN or MSNBC?? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! Good one.
USinUK
September 24th, 2009
11:20 am
Zedd –
“USinUK, get it through your thick skull, I don’t answer to you! Didn’t I ask you to stay on the other side of the pond anyway?”
that’s what I thought. another brainless parrot echoing what he hears on talk radio …
and, I AM on the other side of the pond … but, kinda like Sarah Palin, I can see your vapidity from my house!
AmVet
September 24th, 2009
11:20 am
It is known as an oligarchy, and in large part due to the fascists on Wall St. and K Street and their lap dogs in DC, it is what we now have in the United States of America.
There is too much power and too much wealth in too few hands and the few control our government and the few create the problems and the injustices for the many and have less and less interest in doing anything about it because they can get away with it. ~Ralph Nader
Bosch
September 24th, 2009
11:22 am
“Good grief, do you have “BFFs” and do you text things like “OMG” with your “BFFs”?”
What’s wrong with that? I do that all the time.
Zedd
September 24th, 2009
11:24 am
Gotta love these cage matches, no holds barred, no DQ’s! Gee USinUK that really stings! Anyone got any bactine?
USinUK
September 24th, 2009
11:24 am
DD –
“I kind of figured you were a poodle lover. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!”
wow. such wit. such flair. really. your powers of rhetoric are simply … underwhelming …
as for the WPA – I misread the Heritage report as going back further than it did. however, to answer your question, I do think that LBJ’s programs were necessary and that the country would not have prospered as it has without a safety net.
Hef
September 24th, 2009
11:24 am
In my opinion the biggest failed US policy/law/act whatever,has been the war on welfare. I don’t know the exact dollars spent,but the positive results have been minute at best.
Taxpayer
September 24th, 2009
11:24 am
Zedd
September 24th, 2009
11:13 am
Taxpayer, no different than Jay or others posting something from biased websites and proclaiming it gospel. BTW, I don’t drink flavoraide, I prefer cold beer or Jack Daniels.
It is quite different if the claims being presented cannot be substantiated.
USinUK
September 24th, 2009
11:27 am
“Gee USinUK that really stings! Anyone got any bactine?”
given that it involved a 4-syllable word, I’m surprised you grasped the meaning …
stands for decibels
September 24th, 2009
11:27 am
Zedd, if you’re going to take that CNS story and its wacky “888 billion welfare dollars” as gospel, you might enjoy this, from one of the site’s registered readers. Quoth “soapyrub”:
Frankly, fellow conservatives, something smells fishy about this story and I’m a skeptic at heart. Obama, in office for 8 months now, is blamed for all the entitlement programs that were enacted before he took office. He did sign the stimulus package but complaints have been that aside from the tax cuts in it, only 15% of it has been spent. Something doesn’t compute. Is there anyone else here that finds this article using fuzzy math and reckless logic? I just want straightforward facts without the skewed statistics and grandstanding.
Del
September 24th, 2009
11:27 am
Probably one of the most reasonably balanced commentaries that Jay has written. While I don’t believe Obama was really born outside of the US because that would be next to impossible for an effective cover up, he could have ended the rumor by simply providing his original birth certificate. For whatever reason he refuses to do so. Because of his refusal, I can see how the uptick in Republican responses occurred. The so called ‘truther” rumor,however, was really so far out in left field that no one with half a brain could honestly believe it to be true.
Bosch
September 24th, 2009
11:28 am
Hef,
Positive effects are all in the eye of the beholder. Beats having millions homeless and starving – and the fact is that in a capitalistic society such as ours, there will always be poor people and always those who require assistance.
Mrs. Godzilla
September 24th, 2009
11:30 am
Oh hell, media matters talked about the attack on the stimulus pkg by the right wing…..I suspect that’s what the 888 billion in welfare comes from……
http://clips.mediamatters.org/research/200902100020
Kamchak
September 24th, 2009
11:30 am
USinUK, get it through your thick skull, I don’t answer to you!
Got news for you sport—post in a public forum, and someone’s call BS on you sooner or later.
Bosch
September 24th, 2009
11:31 am
Del,
I’d be hard pressed to produce my original birth certificate as would many others. The fact is the state of Hawaii verified it (which I think they shouldn’t have even bothered with) and no matter what they say there are gonna be those who won’t believe them cause they don’t want to believe them because they prefer to just keep on hating Obama.
USinUK
September 24th, 2009
11:32 am
dB –
if you look at the story, CNS got their data from a Heritage Foundation report.
make of that what you will.
Zedd
September 24th, 2009
11:33 am
Kamchak, I wouldn’t have it any other way
Hef
September 24th, 2009
11:33 am
Bosch
I Report/ Vast White Wing Conspirator :-) You Whine :-(
September 24th, 2009
11:33 am
So which one is easier to believe, duh?
stands for decibels
September 24th, 2009
11:36 am
.I suspect that’s what the 888 billion in welfare comes from……
and here I figured it was because many of the folks who’d believe it sign their letters with an “88″ anyway, so what was another digit.
USinUK
September 24th, 2009
11:38 am
“Kamchak, I wouldn’t have it any other way as long as I don’t have to answer for or defend what I post”
there. fyt.
Public Option's Doing Swell
September 24th, 2009
11:38 am
Bosch–I can show you a website where you can order your birth certificate for $15 bucks. I want to go on record not being a Bosch Birther–I’ve heard there is a groundswell, but I’m behind you when you run for President.
Let’s be clear that as Jim Bamford’s book The Shadow Factory points out, there is one helluva bright line between Bush’s teams’ incompetence allowing 911 to happen and their intentions. Incompetent people often fail in doing something they want badly to do. That was the case with Bush. Only a moron beleives that Bush and Condi wanted to hurt Americans intentionally, however, there were many ways Bush, Condi, and the arrogant NSA, and CIA could have stopped the hijackers including not to take them off the intercept at the airport list which is precisely what was done because of the arrogance of a woman who is still at the CIA.
I’d be quick to say thought that Repubozos will politicize terror and fear of it at every turn, and always bring up the troops stupidly to justify every whackjob idea they have. For example, the troops support insurance rates continuing off the wall. They do if you aren’t taking your antipsychotic med.
As to birthers, one will find if you interview any of them, including those here, that they span the stupid across a wide paradigm. They usually don’t have a 3rd grader’s knowledge of government, and they can’t discuss any political issue with any degree of intelligence. This includes the Birthers in Congress. I’m not sure if I can ID a birther in the Senate.