Palin, DeMint should take lessons from this guy
Judging from conservative rhetoric, the debate over health-care reform is in truth a fight over the future of American democracy and capitalism. Stopping the health-care bill is being described as an essential step toward restoring America to its rightful owners and rightful course.
“Friends, this is a critical battle for the heart and soul of America, and for freedom itself,” Sen. Jim DeMint of South Carolina told a rally in Washington over the weekend. “Freedom fighters are outnumbered in Congress, but not in America. If you continue to stand up and speak out, we will save freedom in America.”
Sarah Palin, the former governor of Alaska, made a more personal contribution to the hysteria. Health care reform would not merely threaten the foundations of America, she warned, it would lead to government-mandated abandonment of our loved ones and family.
“The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama’s ‘death panel’ so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their ‘level of productivity in society,’whether they are worthy of health care,” Palin wrote on her Facebook page. “Such a system is downright evil.”
While that’s some pretty impressive demagoguery, Palin, DeMint and others are mere pikers compared to the master of the genre. To appreciate true genius in explaining how government health care will destroy all that is good and Godly about this country, you can’t do better than the Great Communicator himself, Ronald Reagan.
In a recording back in 1961, Reagan patiently explained, step by step, how the then-controversial proposal to create Medicare would lead to an America in which freedom was a distant memory. In post-Medicare America, government would dictate to its citizens where they would be allowed to live, what they would be allowed to study and what career they could pursue.
It’s a great case study in how elusive the line between reality and fantasy can be, particularly in the hands of a master illusionist.
Reagan begins by noting that under Medicare, the federal government would pay doctors for the care they provide. From that single data point, he weaves a portrait of America that none of us would recognize.
“First you decide that the doctor can have so many patients — (the patients are) equally divided among the various doctors by the government,” Reagan says in a perfectly reasonable sounding conjecture. “But then the doctors aren’t evenly divided geographically, so a doctor decides he wants to practice in one town, and the government has to say to him, ‘You can’t live in that town, they already have enough doctors, you have to go someplace else,’ and from there it is only a short step to dictating where he will go.”
Note the graceful transition as one “what if” glides effortlessly into the next, and then the next, until suddenly the listener finds himself led into a crazy country in which federal bureaucrats dictate where doctors can live and work. As the Gipper notes, “this is a freedom that I wonder if any of us have the right to take from another human being.” (The effect is even more convincing if you listen to Reagan’s words rather than read them.)
To hear Reagan tell it, they won’t stop there. Once government starts dictating to doctors where they can live and practice, it will do the same for all Americans, in all lines of work.
“Pretty soon, your son won’t decide when he’s in school where he will go or what he will do for a living,” Reagan warns. “He will wait for the government to tell him where he will go to work, and what he will do.” Once Medicare becomes law, Reagan concludes, Americans will “spend our sunset years telling our children and our children’s children what it once was like in America, when men were free.”
Today, almost half a century later, we know how things turned out. Medicare did become law, as Reagan feared, but the rest of his horror story never came to pass. Government is not dictating where we can live or what we can study or what career we can enter. We remain a free people, in many ways far more free than we were in 1961. And Medicare is now so popular that even as Republican leaders rail about the dangers of “socialized medicine,” they make sure to exempt Medicare from that criticism.
In other words, conjecture is a land of many possibilities. There was nothing in the original Medicare bill that would have let government dictate where physicians could live and work, just as there’s nothing in the current reform bill that will create “death panels” or a government takeover of health care or subsidize health insurance for illegal immigrants. But words like “could” and “might” let you claim almost anything.
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381 comments Add your comment
mike
September 15th, 2009
2:54 pm
I think Jay should follow this up with another article about how conservatives are obsessed with Reagan, Palin or Reagan and Palin.
That should would be in the same vein of intellectual consistency he established in his last post.
Scooter
September 15th, 2009
2:54 pm
First?
Scooter
September 15th, 2009
2:54 pm
Dang!
Doggone/GA
September 15th, 2009
3:11 pm
OOOOOH! Those DARN slippery slopes. Turn out not to even be there, don’t they?
mike
September 15th, 2009
3:13 pm
“Judging from conservative rhetoric, the debate over health-care reform is in truth a fight over the future of American democracy and capitalism. ”
I would venture to say that most liberals believe the same thing
Paul
September 15th, 2009
3:16 pm
Scooter
That’s okay. You were 2 and 2 is more than 1.
Okay, I’ve read this was “Reagan the private citizen” and “it was a product of a front group for the American Medical Association.”
Was this anything more than a 1960s infomercial?
Regardless, a lot of people bought into it.
But the DeMint and Palin stuff…. I have a tough time understanding how people who have done even a cursory view of the proposals come up with this stuff. It reminds me of a person who applies to get a permit to remodel their home who wakes up in the morning to find demonstrators on the lawn with signs that say “NO APARTMENTS!!!” Person says “I’m just remodeling my house…” Demonstrators say “yeah right… you start knocking down walls, changing everything… pretty soon we’ll have apartments and all sorts of low income transients living here!!! NO APARTMENTS!!!!”
Me, I kinda like the idea people can’t be dropped for preexisting conditions. And Jay’s enforcement mechanism to make sure neer-do-wells don’t game the system. And no caps on coverage. And no denials of coverage.
If that’s socialized medicine, I’ll take it. Gladly.
I Report/ Vast White Wing Conspirator (-: You Whine )-:
September 15th, 2009
3:18 pm
Today, almost half a century later, we know how things turned out. Medicare did become law, as Reagan feared, but the rest of his horror story never came to pass.
Medicare has how much in unfunded liabilities?
Wow, what a champion program.
jt
September 15th, 2009
3:21 pm
So…….
He was off a FEW years.
Let his spirit fill you as your satuated fat is seized and you are MANDATED to wash your hands.
Joey
September 15th, 2009
3:23 pm
Jay;
It could be argued, convincingly, that you have be trying to dictate where people live and work for 20 years or more. All of your anti-suburbs commentaries were about where people should live and work as well as how they should commute.
AmVet
September 15th, 2009
3:24 pm
Reagan was an actor. And from what I saw not even a good one.
As for US President? Exceptionally middling. And as Nixon noted vastly over-rated…
rightwing troll
September 15th, 2009
3:25 pm
Got us there with “unfunded liabilities” now what about the rest of the BS? Has any of it come to pass?
I still feel pretty free…
Doggone/GA
September 15th, 2009
3:27 pm
“I would venture to say that most liberals believe the same thing”
and you would be wrong. It’s a fight between true compassion and the “I got mine” faction.
TaxPayer
September 15th, 2009
3:28 pm
Hence, we must strike preemptively at this scourge because once socialism gets a foothold, then it’s just a short step to communism. Yes! I said communism and I will fight til your last breath to stop it. Stop it dead. No matter what it takes from you. Well, he probably did say it in so many words. That’s our Ronnie.
AmVeterinarian - Practicing in Farm Animals with a specialty in Swine.
September 15th, 2009
3:29 pm
AmVet – your opinion doesn’t hold any weight.
jt
September 15th, 2009
3:30 pm
“If that’s socialized medicine, I’ll take it. Gladly.”
I’m glad that’s out of the way, socialist.
Paul
September 15th, 2009
3:30 pm
TaxPayer
Oh, I dunno… if not for a whacko petition, Van Jones would still be in…
Paul
September 15th, 2009
3:31 pm
jt
Finally a response from someone who can tell me which of the following elements constitute socialism:
“people can’t be dropped for preexisting conditions. And Jay’s enforcement mechanism to make sure neer-do-wells don’t game the system. And no caps on coverage. And no denials of coverage.”
Which of those are socialism?
mike
September 15th, 2009
3:33 pm
Doggone/GA –
“It’s a fight between true compassion and the “I got mine” faction.”
You mean a fight between good people and bad people? What a coincidence that the good people are the ones who share your particular policy prescriptions and the bad people are the people who don’t.
How convenient that those who disagree with you are not only wrong, but immoral too. Jerry Falwell had the same good fortune
professional skeptic
September 15th, 2009
3:36 pm
Thanks for this, Jay. It would seem that the same old scare tactics, fearmongering and empty talking points employed by the Repubs today were alive and well back in 1961.
Scooter
September 15th, 2009
3:38 pm
Paul, I went to the VA to get medical treatment for the first last week.If that is what socialized HC is like I will gladly take it!
Normal
September 15th, 2009
3:39 pm
Mike…three good posts…my work is done
mike
September 15th, 2009
3:39 pm
professional skeptic –
“It would seem that the same old scare tactics, fearmongering and empty talking points employed by the Repubs today were alive and well back in 1961.”
Yes, Republicans should adopt the positive and uplifting tactics of the left and call people who disagree with them “racists” “evil-mongers” and “un-American”.
mike
September 15th, 2009
3:40 pm
Normal –
Duly noted
Normal
September 15th, 2009
3:41 pm
AmVet. I remember Ronnie’s contribution to WWII was training films, and no lie, he played the guy who always got it wrong.
Paul
September 15th, 2009
3:42 pm
Scooter
I’ve mentioned before I once told a very very very conservative military guy I knew he took part in the most socialized medical system this country had ever seen.
He was a smart guy but had a difficult time getting his mind around the concept. And he was an engineer, no less!
TaxPayer
September 15th, 2009
3:44 pm
Normal
September 15th, 2009
3:41 pm
AmVet. I remember Ronnie’s contribution to WWII was training films, and no lie, he played the guy who always got it wrong
That’s because he wasn’t acting.
josef nix
September 15th, 2009
3:46 pm
mike and Normal–been following y’all’s exchange. Bravi! I wish there were more like you.
pat
September 15th, 2009
3:46 pm
And Madicare is a disaster, is it not? If it’s so good, why does practically everybody on it also carry medicare supplementation? ’cause it’s awsome?
And what is it with you and Palin, you cannot let a week go by with out talking about her?..You must have the hot’s for her or something.
TaxPayer
September 15th, 2009
3:47 pm
And he was an engineer, no less!
Some folks are overly lax with their definitions of titles.
GoingBroke
September 15th, 2009
3:51 pm
The bad part is.. for every story that can be pumped out by Jay.. I can cite hundreds more telling of an opposite story of Gov’t intervention. The biggest problem we have to contend with.. is once the Gov’t gets any type of power, they will not let go. No matter how poorly the program is run or how much the debt increases.
FYI.. when am I going to be invited to an AFL-CIO rally.. since I am now footing part of the bill for it?
AmVet
September 15th, 2009
3:51 pm
Ronnie – the Father of modern American “Conservatism”!
What a farce.
In virtually every meaning of the word he was an abysmal failure as a “conservative”.
Unless by conservative one means:
Exploding the size of government.
Exploding the scope of government.
Exploding the interference of government.
Exploding the COST of government. (LOTS of red ink boys and girls!)
Coddling fascist dictators, tyrants and thugs in every hemisphere.
Wars on Drugs. Wars on Pornography. Implementing the Sex Police.
Allowing disgraced US Marine officers to violate the US Constitution from the WHITE HOUSE BASEMENT!
Then playing stooopid to avoid going to prison himself.
The worst recession in decades.
But by far the worst of his legacy is that he gave rise to the neo-cons of Newt the Nut and of course, the catastrophic BushCo Era.
So in a way you “conservatives” have him to thank for your current unenviable hemorrhaging situation…
jt
September 15th, 2009
3:53 pm
Paul – to answer your question-
Socialism refers to various theories of economic organization advocating public or direct worker ownership and administration of the means of production and allocation of resources, and a society characterized by equal access to resources for all individuals with an egalitarian method of compensation. In Marxist theory, socialism is a transitional phase between capitalism and communism characterized by unequal distribution of goods and compensation according to work done. [1][2][3] Contrary to popular belief, socialism is not a political system; it is an economic system distinct from capitalism, an ideology expounding the setting up of an alternative system, using intervention.
What part don’t you understand? Why are you ashamed of having socialistic beliefs?
With your statist proclivities, you are more susceptable to Totalitarianism.
With our war on drugs, we really are flirting with a TeeTolitarianism.
Do not be ashamed of your beliefs Paul. Everybody makes mistakes. Do not feat individual liberty. The spirit of Reagan and Liberty will ALWAYS protect you.
Normal
September 15th, 2009
3:54 pm
professional skeptic
September 15th, 2009
3:36 pm
You have to remember that back then they just had their world rocked when a (SHOCK!!) Catholic was elected President. OMG!!! Now they have had their world rocked because ( DOUBLE SHOCK!!!!) an Black man has been elected President. When you think your way of life is in danger, you resort to…well, what happened then and what’s happening now…just sayin’
Zeddicus Z'ul Zorrander
September 15th, 2009
3:56 pm
Can Obama force you to buy health insurance?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/ygregory;_ylt=AndQUH1ruJ1rrm5qQDKwuL2MwfIE;_ylu=X3oDMTE2OTJoNTFoBHBvcwMxBHNlYwN5bi1yLWItbGVmdARzbGsDLWNhbm9iYW1hZm9y
AmVeterinarian - Practicing in Farm Animals with a specialty in Swine.
September 15th, 2009
3:58 pm
AmVet, you seem to have described Obama.
mike
September 15th, 2009
3:58 pm
Normal –
Continuing the discussion as to what is civil debate…
Don’t you find it uncivil to accuse people of racism when there is no evidence other than they disagree with the policies of an African-American politician?
I’ve got to tell you. It is incredibly offensive to be accused of being a racist for expressing your opinion on domestic policy.
jt
September 15th, 2009
3:59 pm
AmVet -
He waits for you too.
Reagan was condensed decency. Your abhorrance to that is expected.
You too will shed the darkness of centralized authority and Henry Waxman one day.
The Ronald will be there.,,, with open arms.
I Report/ Vast White Wing Conspirator (-: You Whine )-:
September 15th, 2009
4:01 pm
Plagiarism or talking points fax?
Wednesday, September 02, 2009
Ronald Reagan on Medicare, circa 1961. Prescient rhetoric or familiar alarmist claptrap?
Both sides in the current debate over health care reform are citing this 1961 recording by Ronald Reagan -Eric Zorn, Chicago Tribune
Check out the blog picture, look eerily familiar?-
http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_columnists_ezorn/2009/09/ronald-reagan-on-medicare-circa-1961-prescient-rhetoric-or-familiar-alarmist-claptrap-.html
Paul
September 15th, 2009
4:02 pm
jt 3:53
I asked you to please explain which of the following elements constitute socialism:
“people can’t be dropped for preexisting conditions. And Jay’s enforcement mechanism to make sure neer-do-wells don’t game the system. And no caps on coverage. And no denials of coverage.”
It’d be like, if you were asked on a test to pick which of the following of a list of vehicles were SUVs and explain your answer, and you responded with a definition of what constitutes an SUV.
Care to try again?
AmVet
September 15th, 2009
4:03 pm
Oh and did I mention he was a big fan of apartheid?
I know. The corporation that employed me at the time divested itself of all business interests in the racist and bigoted South Africa.
But not Ronnie.
He loved them and called Mandela a terrorist.
Yep that’s real conservative, and a helluva role model…
mike
September 15th, 2009
4:04 pm
AmVet –
You accused conservatives of “Coddling fascist dictators, tyrants and thugs in every hemisphere.”
Can you point to a Democrat since Truman who stood up to “fascist dictators, tyrants and thugs in any hemisphere”?
Kamchak
September 15th, 2009
4:04 pm
The Ronald will be there.,,,with open arms.
And Obama supporters are the one’s with a messiah vision?
I Report/ Vast White Wing Conspirator (-: You Whine )-:
September 15th, 2009
4:04 pm
Well, let us see what the socialists themselves have to say about it. They say once the Ferrand bill is passed this nation will be provided with a mechanism for socialized medicine capable of indefinite expansion in every direction until it includes the entire population. Now we can’t say we haven’t been warned.-Ronald Reagan
Schip, Medicare Part B, Medicare Part C, Medicare Part D……………
Public Option Now.
September 15th, 2009
4:04 pm
Palin is the antithesis of health care. She won’t get treatment for her blatantly obvious Borderline Personality that prevents her from reading and comprehending anything.
Here’s what the Repubozos won’t discuss those here, and those on Capitol Hill:
Repubozos want to get between you and your doctor and the proof is below.
http://healthcarereform.nejm.org/?p=1790&query=home
Davo
September 15th, 2009
4:05 pm
Kayne West Hates White People
by Jack Hunter on September 15, 2009
http://www.takimag.com/article/kayne_west_hates_white_people/
“Dowd simply assumes racism must be the reason for the anger directed at Obama based on her own stereotypical perceptions of white conservatives and Southerners, with little to no contextual evidence to vindicate her assertion. That Taylor Swift is white and Kanye West is black does not necessarily make the rapper a racist despite his bad behavior. And that President Obama is black and Joe Wilson is white does not necessarily make the congressman a racist despite his bad behavior—not to mention his region of origin and Maureen Dowd’s imagination.”
Public Option Now.
September 15th, 2009
4:06 pm
Andy shows what a child’s grasp he has of Medicare which he probably is on.
Medicare has been crippled by Repubozos in 2003 led by Bill Frist who set up Medicare Part D to have a huge donut because it can’t competitively bid like University of Chicago Hospitals and Northwestern Hospitals can.
I Report/ Vast White Wing Conspirator (-: You Whine )-:
September 15th, 2009
4:06 pm
Thanks bookman, for the great Ronald Reagan lecture that I had forgotten about-
Let’s take a look at Social Security itself. Again, very few of us disagree with the original premise that there should be some form of savings that would keep destitution from following unemployment by reason of death, disability or old age. And to this end, Social Security was adopted, but it was never intended to supplant private savings, private insurance, pension programs of unions and industries.
You the man!
AmVet
September 15th, 2009
4:07 pm
jt, look I like differing opinions, that can be remotely corroborated anyway.
Ronnie waits for me too? Where at the right side of the throne?
I do not discount him as a fundamentally decent man. Especially for a borderline criminal, he was actually a helluva guy!
And as an enlightened individual I only ask that you share whatever it is you are ingesting.
Because it sure seems to be giving you some hellacious “visions”…
josef nix
September 15th, 2009
4:10 pm
Davo– @ 4:05 Ssh! Can’t say that around these parts!
Public Option Now.
September 15th, 2009
4:10 pm
Take a big bite of this Andy:
http://healthcarereform.nejm.org/?p=1790&query=home
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=112818960
77% of Americans want a Public Option (Survey USA poll 2 weeks ago and 3 other polls including USA Today)
73% of MDs want a public option (NEJM poll released and posted yesterday–linked here)
Why do you repubozos want to be stupidly in the way of doctors and patients?