Hey Congressman Wilson! Read the bill!
Yes, U.S. Rep. Joe Wilson was crass and rude in calling President Obama a liar during his speech to a joint session of Congress.
But there’s a larger issue: Was Wilson right?
The outburst came as Obama addressed a common claim by opponents that the health-insurance bill would provide subsidized coverage to illegal immigrants. The president denied that claim, point blank:
“There are also those who claim that our reform efforts would insure illegal immigrants,” he said. “This, too, is false. The reforms — the reforms I’m proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally.”
U.S. Rep. Joe Wilson, R-S.C.
“You lie!” Wilson yelled from the House floor, later explaining that he became overwhelmed with emotion at hearing Obama’s words.
So who’s right? Well, let’s read the bill, shall we? Here’s the language contained in House Bill 3200:
SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS.
Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.
Now that’s pretty explicit. “Affordability credits,” the federal subsidies that would allow lower-income residents to buy health insurance, cannot go to people who are not here lawfully.
Confronted by that blunt language, those insistent that illegal immigrants would be covered nonetheless then retreat to another section of the bill:
“Sec. 152. Prohibiting discrimination in health care.
(a) In General.–Except as otherwise explicitly permitted by this
Act and by subsequent regulations consistent with this Act, all health
care and related services (including insurance coverage and public
health activities) covered by this Act shall be provided without regard
to personal characteristics extraneous to the provision of high quality
health care or related services.”
Immigration status, they point out, is a personal characteristic “extraneous to the provision of high quality health care or related services.” Therefore it would be illegal to deny coverage to illegal immigrants.
However, let’s look again at Section 152, more precisely at the words “Except as otherwise explicitly permitted by this Act.” That language is there for a reason.
Sec. 246, quoted above, explicitly denies subsidies to those who are here illegally. Therefore Sec. 152 does not apply to illegal immigrants.
“Read the bill,” the townhallers chanted. Well, Wilson has proved himself crude and crass; the words of HB 3200 prove him wrong as well.
What’s interesting, of course, is that being totally, demonstrably wrong doesn’t matter. What matters is that Wilson’s outburst FEELS right to so many people. All of their insecurities and phobias, all of their fears about a rapidly changing country, are being projected onto the health care bill and it doesn’t matter to them much what the bill actually says. Showing them the words in black and white doesn’t change their mind a bit.
Look at the townhalls. The depths of discontent and anger rising around the country in the overheated August of 2009 could not have been generated by an issue as mundane and complex as health-care reform. This is about anxieties and emotions that run far deeper than concern about how we pay doctors and hospitals, and that’s what makes passing the bill so difficult.
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297 comments Add your comment
stands for decibels
September 10th, 2009
12:37 pm
But there’s a larger issue: Was Wilson right?
Well no, of course not. But Jay, that hasn’t prevented your colleagues in the Journamalizm biz from treating this as a he said/she said kinda deal.
stands for decibels
September 10th, 2009
12:38 pm
The resident wingers who continue to defend Wilson don’t seem to have read the memo…
Republicans also said the heckling was out of line. “I think we ought to treat the president with respect,” said Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the Republican leader, “and anything other than that is not appropriate.”
And the House Republican whip, Eric I. Cantor of Virginia, told ABC on Thursday: “Obviously, the president of the United States is always welcome on Capitol Hill. He deserves respect and decorum.” He said that Mr. Wilson’s apology “was the appropriate thing to do.”
stands for decibels
September 10th, 2009
12:38 pm
Dang, bollixed the link. Here again:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/11/us/politics/11Wilson.html?_r=1&hp
Davo
September 10th, 2009
12:41 pm
” Was Wilson right?”
He will be…once the DNC shovels ‘immigration reform’ aka amnesty down our throats.
Oh well… maybe South Carolina will re-secede by then; here’s hoping
pat
September 10th, 2009
12:42 pm
Which bill? HR 3200 is not what obama was talking about last night. So which bill are we talking about? The dead bill HR 3200, or the forth coming bill from the the white house whose text we have yet to see?
You see, the cooperative competative stuff obama was talking about is not in HR 3200 so he could not have been talking about that one. Yet you are talkiing about HR 3200 which obama could not have been talking about because most of what he said is not a part of HR 3200 in it’s current form, not even close. He was talking about something new, so right now, neither the congressman nor us knows what’s actually in it.
The democrats have been spreading as much BS about healthcare reform as the republicans.
If we really want to do this right, we need to drop the us against them mentality.
Betsy
September 10th, 2009
12:43 pm
The House version that passed through three separate committees before the summer recess did not include a mechanism for determining an individual’s citizenship status. Section 246 of H.R. 3200 says, “Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.” But without a citizenship verification requirement, illegal aliens who meet the income requirements could receive vouchers that can be used to purchase health care.
Jen (who actually lives in Atlanta)
September 10th, 2009
12:46 pm
Ya, but if they’re given amnesty then they become legal, thus tax-paying citizens. Once they start paying the same taxes as the rest of us legals then the system should be able to afford them.
I mean…the whole problem people have with illegal immigrants is that they aren’t paying into the system they’re benefitting from, right?
So, making them legal fixes that and the problem goes away, right?
Right?
I Report/ Vast White Wing Conspirator (-: You Whine )-:
September 10th, 2009
12:48 pm
Yeah, so what if the democrats legalize the illegals?
ErinM
September 10th, 2009
12:49 pm
And so what if illegal immigrants do get insured? Could it mean that, possibly, they might get the preventive care they need and will stop clogging up our emergency rooms with catastrophic health issues — which we, ultimately, pay for anyway? But compassion and economics aren’t part of this discussion, only partisan rhetoric and hissy fits over some mangled definition of socialism.
Mrs. Godzilla
September 10th, 2009
12:52 pm
Ronald Reagan was and will remain the last American President to give amnesty to illegal aliens.
Those damn amnesty giving Republicans!
Lord Help Us
September 10th, 2009
12:53 pm
Good Heavens! It’s RIGHT THERE in Black and White, people!!!!!
If it is removed in some future revision of the bill, you may have a point, but, for goodness sake, it is as plain as day…READ IT!!!!
Let’s see the manufactured hysteria that has been punted out of the park so far:
-Death Panels – pure spin BS
-Federally Funded Abortion – Not gonna happen
-Covering illegals – Black and White, people…read!
-Adding to the deficit – Nyet
-Government takeover of healthcare – puleeeaze!
-Forcing people off their current providers – Nope
Just admit it…you are against anything that will define President Obama as ’successful’…
Mr. Snarky
September 10th, 2009
12:55 pm
Jay,
Wilson was referring to House bill 3200.x. You know, the top secret one that exists only in the minds of conservatives. It’s the one with the Death Panels that rations healthcare so registered Republicans don’t get any and pulls the plug on anyone over the age of 65.
Goldie
September 10th, 2009
12:55 pm
“Read the bill!”– I love that, Jay!
I believe this may be my personal favorite quote from President Obama at last night’s address before Congress:
“We did not come to fear the future. We came here to shape it. I still believe we can act even when it’s hard. I still believe we can replace acrimony with civility, and gridlock with progress. I still believe we can do great things, and that here and now we will meet history’s test. Because that is who we are. That is our calling. That is our character.”
Jen (who actually lives in Atlanta)
September 10th, 2009
12:55 pm
Hey, Wing,
Do you mean…”Yeah, SO WHAT if the democrats legalize the illegals?”…like who cares?
Or…”Yeah, so, what IF the democrats legalize the illegals?”…like what are the consequences?
Sinthia Bookman
September 10th, 2009
12:56 pm
And now for something completely different
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/billy-kimball/obamas-expected-to-have-s_b_145104.html
SunnyvaleKen
September 10th, 2009
12:58 pm
Yes, HR3200 contains the paragraphs referenced but the editor and other writers fail to note the lack of enforcement provisions and the lack of penalties for “breaking the law”.
The next shoe to drop will be the “path to citizenship” that the Democrats want to create so there won’t be any illegal aliens. The Democrats want all these new citizens to vote Democrat forever and ever so we can all be happily bankrupt while we wheel loads of worthless dollars to the store to buy a loaf of bread.
If the Democrats don’t succeed, they can count on the courts to do their dirty work. Check out the history of California’s proposition 187 to see the future.
Joe Wilson gets it. The rest need to wake up.
Sinthia Bookman
September 10th, 2009
1:00 pm
Jay you are correct. What percentage of those peeps have even read the bill?
Is it possible that Wilson got caught up in the moment? Most likely, yes. Illegals may not have access to this plan, but they will still have access to our healthcare if needed. And who will pay for that? You, me and everyone else – just as it is now.
md
September 10th, 2009
1:00 pm
“I mean…the whole problem people have with illegal immigrants is that they aren’t paying into the system they’re benefitting from, right?
So, making them legal fixes that and the problem goes away, right?
Right?”
Wrong. It means that our congress refused to enforce the laws of these United States, and by granting amnesty a second time would send the message that all who come here do not need to worry about our laws.
The first 5 million granted amnesty has led to 20-40 million more wanting the same, which down the road would lead to even more wanting what the first 2 groups received. Unless/until our borders are controlled, the problem will only compound itself for many years to come.
USinUK
September 10th, 2009
1:01 pm
for the persnickety ones from downstairs who wanted to know how many people are without insurance:
The annual report gave an overview of the first year of the recession, which started in December 2007. But the snapshot did not fully reflect the breadth of the economic downturn. For instance, people who had health insurance any time during the year were not counted as uninsured, so people who lost their insurance when they were laid off later in the year were still categorized as having had insurance.
The number of people without health insurance rose to 46.3 million in 2008, up from 45.7 million in 2007. The uninsured rate was 15.4 percent, about the same to the year before.
The percentage of people covered by private health insurance and from their employers declined to 66.7 percent, continuing a downward trend that has been going for eight years. But the decrease was offset by the an increase in people covered by government health insurance programs, including Medicare, Medicaid, the Children’s Health Insurance Program and the military.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/10/AR2009091001637.html?hpid=topnews
JayBee
September 10th, 2009
1:03 pm
Maybe President Obama and whatever sensible Democrats there are at the national level — particularly Obama — will adopt the FDR/Truman/LBJ playbook, turn aside the right-wing filberts and their corporate health-care sugar daddies and their blind followers like many whose comments precede these, and get done what needs to get done for the benefit of the U.S. and its citizens. The 9/10 Green-Dog Democrat offers some thoughts on how things should be done to get done what needs to be done. See http://www.mytown.ca/green-dog/ .
Mrs. Godzilla
September 10th, 2009
1:04 pm
sinthia
i bet inauguration sex is loads better than make up sex.
Ross Snell
September 10th, 2009
1:05 pm
Instead of beating around the bush, is the President willing to put into the bill a statement such as
” illegal immigrants will not be included.” This would clear up any confusion for everyone, except of course for the speaker.
USinUK
September 10th, 2009
1:05 pm
Mrs. G –
but I bet they’ll both pale in comparison to Health Care sex!
Jen (who actually lives in Atlanta)
September 10th, 2009
1:05 pm
“Wrong. It means that our congress refused to enforce the laws of these United States, and by granting amnesty a second time would send the message that all who come here do not need to worry about our laws.
The first 5 million granted amnesty has led to 20-40 million more wanting the same, which down the road would lead to even more wanting what the first 2 groups received. Unless/until our borders are controlled, the problem will only compound itself for many years to come.”
But what, exactly, are you objecting to? If these people are all made legal then they are all paying the same taxes as legals pay and….?
So, what’s the problem? OK, potentially national security.
But we’re talking health care. What’s the problem?
jconservative
September 10th, 2009
1:06 pm
Ya’ll leave Rep. Joe Wilson alone. He fell all over himself apologizing. The apology was much stronger than his outburst.
What do you want him to do, slash his wrists?
TaxPayer
September 10th, 2009
1:07 pm
Poor Republicans. They fear returning to their dark, dank little obscure corner that they once occupied, again. Accept your rightful place. Just get it over with then you can stop the fear. After all, you’ve been there before so it’s not fear of the unknown.
stands for decibels
September 10th, 2009
1:07 pm
Rational folk: Lest we forget, fighting the modest (and fairly sensible, and among the few things championed by Bush that I thought wasn’t bat-crap crazy) immigration reform measures from 2007 were the last big woo-hoo victory the Dittoheads claimed for themselves.
So naturally their reaction to this flareup is going to be even a little nuttier than usual.
Zeddicus Z'ul Zorrander
September 10th, 2009
1:09 pm
Of course illegal aliens won’t be covered. That would be because by the time this plan is put into effect they won’t be “illegal” any more. They will have been legitimized by a Democrat party seeking more core voters.
TW
September 10th, 2009
1:09 pm
If the GOP had a legitimate gripe, or even one they weren’t embarrased to stand behind, they wouldn’t have to create an argument based on fiction.
At least the rightwing of old had a pair…
Steve
September 10th, 2009
1:09 pm
First off Senator John McCain said on NBC’s Today Show that Rep. Joe Wilson was incorrect on whether immigrants would be covered. Period!
Another thought. What would of been the reaction to a comment like “Liar” made to George Bush during a joint session of Congress to his claims of WMDs in Iraq in the build up of the war.
I can only imagine the cries from the GOP of “traitor”!
TaxPayer
September 10th, 2009
1:10 pm
I wonder if all those Taliban warlords that the CIA distributed Viagra to were of Medicare age. I seriously doubt that the drug companies just gave the stuff to the DoD or CIA for distribution so someone has to be given the bill.
stands for decibels
September 10th, 2009
1:10 pm
What do you want him to do, slash his wrists?
Me? no. Michelle Bachmann? well…
(hey, you knew that one was coming, right?)
Shawny
September 10th, 2009
1:11 pm
“Ronald Reagan was and will remain the last American President to give amnesty to illegal aliens.”
that is hysterical. All presidents that followed, that did not enforce our laws regarding illegal immigration, that did not push through ways to protect our borders, have in essence granted amnesty. Their names are Bush, Clinton, Bush, and Obama. Is that fence up yet? Are there mass deportation (not criminals) yet? If not, there is amnesty. Right, wrong, or indifferent.
USinUK
September 10th, 2009
1:13 pm
dB –
1:10 …
well played, sir!
Mrs. Godzilla
September 10th, 2009
1:13 pm
USinUK
Healthcare Sex!
For that I’ll stick with the private option…….
TaxPayer
September 10th, 2009
1:14 pm
On February 16, 2005, Act No. 1 of the 2005 Georgia General Assembly was signed into law by the Governor, putting into place the most far-reaching legislative changes in Georgia’s civil justice system since the passage of the Civil Practice Act in 1966. Although the Act was ostensibly directed to “promot[ing] predictability and improvement in the provision of quality health care services and the resolution of health care liability claims … [to] thereby assist in promoting the provision of health care liability insurance by insurance providers,” many of its provisions go far beyond medical malpractice claims and impact all tort claims. Some provisions of this so-called “tort reform” legislation even apply to all civil cases regardless of the nature of the claim. Furthermore, the legislative intent was to apply most of these new rules retroactively; that is, to causes of action which arose before February 16, 2005, the Act’s effective date, and to all actions then pending or thereafter filed.
Those Georgia Republicans! They are good for a laugh. A sick laugh but still a laugh. About like Achmed the terrorist. Sick but funny. Now, that Republican out in California that resigned — he should have been pushing for tart reform and he could have avoided all this mess.
TaxPayer
September 10th, 2009
1:15 pm
dB at 1:10,
Good one.
Joan
September 10th, 2009
1:16 pm
We know Obama will push for amnesty for illegals next, and then they will be covered. But studies have shown (and common sense tells you) that illegals are, and probably will be for the foreseeable future, low paid workers who never will pay into the tax system enough (if anything) to bear the costs of their health care, schooling, and all those other things, the taxpayers pay for them right now. So, the net/net is taxpayers lose. And it makes sense for the Democrats to push to legalize these, many illiterate, non-english speaking, illegals, because they are sure to vote for the party with the biggest teat.
Mrs. Godzilla
September 10th, 2009
1:16 pm
Shawny
You KNOW I love ya’…..but amnesty has a very specific meaning.
Ronald Reagan was and will remain the last American President to give AMNESTY illegal immigrants.
Bosch
September 10th, 2009
1:18 pm
“The next shoe to drop will be the “path to citizenship” that the Democrats want to create so there won’t be any illegal aliens”
Oh, yeah, like this is a brand new concept. Damn that path to citizenship!
Wait a minute…………
stands for decibels
September 10th, 2009
1:19 pm
Healthcare Sex!
For that I’ll stick with the private option…….
You gals go ahead and yuk it up. But we all know that this is likely where the next Right-wing Poutrage will emanate.
(And for the record, it’s all eclipsed by November Election Victory sex. So I hear.)
Later, kids.
Bosch
September 10th, 2009
1:19 pm
You just know that Wilson dude has been all going, “Oh God, I sooooooo suck.”
md
September 10th, 2009
1:20 pm
“But what, exactly, are you objecting to? If these people are all made legal then they are all paying the same taxes as legals pay and….?
So, what’s the problem? OK, potentially national security.
But we’re talking health care. What’s the problem?”
Are we or are we not a nation of laws?
I have no problem with immigration, as we are a nation of immigrants. But I do have a problem rewarding individuals for breaking the law. And also allowing the same individuals to go to the head of the line in front of many around the world that DO think it important to immigrate according to the laws pertaining to immigration.
They want to be here, fine, go out and get in line like the ones that have been in that line for a long time. Its folks like you that create the problem in the first place. If they were forced to get in that line from the beginning, there wouldn’t be 20-40 million illegals now.
Do you go out to six flags and wait in line for an hour only to watch some that consider themselves “special” jump the line and get on the ride way ahead of you.
Or wait in line in rush hour traffic and curse the guy that drives up the emergency lane and cuts in up front.
Put yourself in the shoes of those that think we are a nation of laws and actually abide by those laws only to be screwed by the ones that jumped in line.
How would you feel if you and your family apllied for immigration from some latin american country and had to wait for years to come to the US while others jumped in front of you?
I’m guessing you wouldn’t care for it too much.
KB
September 10th, 2009
1:20 pm
Your article said: “Showing them the words in black and white doesn’t change their mind a bit.”
It mattered to me.
Thank you for doing the research, crystalizing the issue as to the application to “illegal aliens” about how the two sections could be read and showing which would prevail.
The problem now, as I see it, is “lawfully present” is not exactly the same as “illegal immigrants” or “illegal aliens” and could include persons who entered the country illegally but gained some temporary status as “lawfully present.” Amnesty is one method. However, another defacto amnesty could be a policy not to identify and deport. So, essentially, the persons who entered the country illegally would have a legal argument that based on defacto government policies not to identify and deport, they are “lawfully present” after some minimal period of time and it is only the entry that was unlawful.
Bosch
September 10th, 2009
1:20 pm
Mrs. G. and USinUK,
Um, what are y’all talking about?
Sinthia Bookman
September 10th, 2009
1:20 pm
Joan, that’s why the demo’s love the poor and hate the rich. They can control the poor.
What is the percentage of people that are at poverty level in the US? They were talking about this on NPR this morning. What will the percentage be when all of the illegals are legalized? Will it make a significant difference? I don’t know.
TaxPayer
September 10th, 2009
1:21 pm
Damn that path to citizenship!
I think we should export everyone that has not had sex with a native American or someone that is partly native American or someone that knows a native American or someone that has read about native Americans becuase otherwise they just don’t have no right to come here.
jconservative
September 10th, 2009
1:22 pm
“…without a citizenship verification requirement, illegal aliens who meet the income requirements could receive vouchers that can be used to purchase health care.”
I do not believe this is correct. Citizenship verification is already written into federal law for every federal department now existing or hereafter created. You can’t get anything without proving US citizenship or legal status, if alien.
Can somebody double check me on this?
I have no idea what the 50 states laws would provide in the way of verification.
Bosch
September 10th, 2009
1:23 pm
Am I just memberin’ things wrong, which is entirely possible, but it seems to me when all this immigration bruhaha crap sprung up overnight (literally – like one day it seemed that people were all like everythings fine then next day, damn, there’s brown people here) and got so poutraged and all – but weren’t there more Republicans pushing for amnesty than Democrats? Again, I could be wrong, but still.
USinUK
September 10th, 2009
1:23 pm
dB –
“You gals go ahead and yuk it up. But we all know that this is likely where the next Right-wing Poutrage will emanate”
alls I know is, last time we had someone getting it good and regular in the white house, the economy performed rather well — I’ll take my chances with the poutrage if we can get some more loft in the markets …