Patience a hard pill to swallow regarding Afghanistan
President Obama is under pressure from his party and even from within his administration to reduce rather than increase our commitment in Afghanistan.
The sources of that pressure are obvious. As Defense Secretary Robert Gates noted, “The nation has been at war for eight years. The fact that Americans would be tired of having their sons and daughters at risk and in battle is not surprising.”
That fatigue is compounded by the fact that according to our top military commanders, the war is not going well. U.S. casualties in Afghanistan last month hit their highest total since the war began, and serious allegations of large-scale fraud have brought into question the legitimacy of the ongoing presidential election and thus the Afghan government itself.
Asking American kids to die defending a fraudulent foreign government is asking a lot.
All that said, however, talk of reducing our military presence in Afghanistan is premature. We will and must turn that country over to its own people and its own fate, and the sooner the better. But the conditions and timing of that withdrawal matter, for the Afghan people and for our own security.
For years, we’ve treated Afghanistan as a holding action while resources and manpower were committed to Iraq. Only now, eight years after the attacks of Sept. 11, are we beginning to focus on the region where this whole mess originated.
As Gates pointed out last week, the incoming Obama administration only settled on its strategy in late March and installed a new commander in June. Additional troops committed to the effort are still arriving. We don’t know yet what gains that new strategy, leadership and commitment could produce.
However, it’s also important to be realistic. If we’ve learned anything in our foreign interventions of the last eight years, it’s that places such as Afghanistan defy analysis in absolute terms. They do not present us enemies to be defeated but situations to be managed.
For that reason, it’s foolhardy to assess our goals in stark terms of victory versus defeat or winning versus losing. We have to ask instead: Can we hope to make things better, for ourselves and our allies, and at what sacrifice?
We learned that lesson in Iraq, and we paid a high price for it. What we’ve accomplished there isn’t a victory and it isn’t a defeat. We know now that Iraq isn’t fated to become the peaceful, pro-American democracy envisioned by President Bush, at least not in the foreseeable future. But it is at least more stable today than it would have been had we pulled out four years ago, and it poses less risk to its neighbors and our own national interests.
So was that improvement worth the additional lives and investment? The answer is yes.
In Afghanistan, the questions to ask as we fumble toward the future are similar: How much better can we conceivably make things with the resources and time available, recognizing that public patience is growing short?
Conversely, how much worse could things get — for the people of Afghanistan, for neighboring Pakistan and for our own national security — if we withdraw too quickly?
By the end of next summer, after a year to judge the effects of our new approach and leadership, we will have a much clearer answer to that first question. But even now, we already know that the official goals announced by the administration may be too ambitious to be realized.
According to the strategy, “The core goal of the U.S. must be to disrupt, dismantle, and defeat al-Qaida and its safe havens in Pakistan, and to prevent their return to Pakistan or Afghanistan.”
That language implies a goal of eradicating al-Qaida from Pakistan and Afghanistan. Al-Qaida can certainly be weakened via force; its capacity to export terrorism, already disrupted, can and must be diminished further. But our policy in Afghanistan can’t be driven by false hope of its eradication by military means.
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© 2009 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
256 comments Add your comment
N.J.
September 8th, 2009
1:49 pm
Alexander the Great failed to conquer Afghanistan, so in his typical intelligent fashion, he resorted to diplomacy and so brought Afghanistan into the Macedonian sphere of influence.
The British Empire failed, the French failed, and America is failing and will fail.
The moment we pull out of Iraq, we will have failed. There is no way the current government can or will sustain the peace, and any semblence of a democracy will collapse. Thats simple history in action.
demwit
September 8th, 2009
1:51 pm
But, but.., didn’t Obama promise to get Osama??
demwit
September 8th, 2009
1:52 pm
Is America trying to conquer Afganistan? I’m soooo confused…
Doggone/GA
September 8th, 2009
1:58 pm
“But it is at least more stable today than it would have been had we pulled out four years ago, and it poses less risk to its neighbors and our own national interests.
So was that improvement worth the additional lives and investment? The answer is yes.”
Wrong question, therefore wrong answer.
But it is at least more stable today than it would have been had we NEVER INVADED, and it poses less risk to its neighbors and our own national interests.
That is the question. The answer is still yes.
joe matarotz
September 8th, 2009
1:59 pm
Jay, what a well-written, well thought out article. Was it written by your twin? And is it safe to come out of our shelters yet? Is the Union still standing? Has Obama finished his speech? It must be driving the hard-core naysayers wild that none other than Laura Bush supported the president’s speech. Imagine his nerve, telling kids to stay in school and work hard. How can she side with that? What is she thinking?
N.J.
September 8th, 2009
2:02 pm
Absolutely. Theres no one in Afghanistan who actually had anything to do with our original reason for being there. 9/11.
Obama is stuck with a problem. When he was elected he said he was not going to “apologize” for the American way of life. But the only way we can sustain the American way of life is to control access to the natural resources that make it possible, and protect the sea lanes by which the stuff gets to us.
America’s policy, since the end of world war II has been basically a colonial one using a new form of colonialism. Dollar Colonialism and Dollar Diplomacy. It is no longer necessary to place a colonial administration in a country when you can buy a proxy administration to do the job.
How did Karzai get to be president of Afghanistan. He wasn’t very popular. He had no credibility among Afghanis because he ran away from his country while decades of civil war went on. He took off and hung out safely in Quetta, Pakistan, while the Taliban were in charge.
In 2001 it was a hand picked group of Afghan Political leaders who chose Karzai in BONN Germany. Not the Afghani people. His own people have tried to assasinate him 4 times in the last 7 years. The first attempt was by the Afghani Army. Only one of these 4 attempts was made by the Taliban.
N.J.
September 8th, 2009
2:03 pm
Actually it is FAR less stable today than it was before we invaded. It was very stable under the Taliban.
I Report/ Vast White Wing Conspirator (-: You Whine )-:
September 8th, 2009
2:03 pm
This is now-
As Gates pointed out last week, the incoming Obama administration only settled on its strategy in late March and installed a new commander in June. Additional troops committed to the effort are still arriving. We don’t know yet what gains that new strategy, leadership and commitment could produce.
That was then-
Today, Bush desperately wants to convince the American people that he is making a fresh start in Iraq. The appointment of Petraeus, whom Bush can plausibly describe as one of our nation’s top counterinsurgency officers, will bolster that claim. And to address the manpower issue, the president is expected to propose escalating our commitment in Iraq by around 20,000 troops.
Unfortunately, most military experts say that escalation would be far too small, and come far too late, to alter the course of events in Iraq.-Bookman, 2007
Know what I mean?
Soothsayer
September 8th, 2009
2:04 pm
The American economy was teetering on two legs: housing and defense (war) spending. Now that housing is gone, we only have defense left. There is simply no way Obama is going to end the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan at this point in time.
Those who have been on this blog a long time will remember (before the election) when I said Republican, Democrat, it doesn’t matter. They all do the bidding of their corporate masters.
HERE THEY ARE
Kamchak
September 8th, 2009
2:17 pm
Off topic
Andy–thanks for the link from downstairs. When I saw that I didn’t have an “Acceleration” tab on the settings page, I knew something was amiss. I am diligent in checking for updates through the Communications Manager, but talking to the support personnel I’m told that the only way to update is through their website.
Thanks to you, I have the newest version of Comm. Mgr. and the default “Acceleration” setting when downloaded was auto.
md
September 8th, 2009
2:20 pm
All depends on what direction of the moral compass one decides to follow.
Help those suppressed by the Taliban to gain a better way of life or keep our kids safe and let others fend for themselves.
Pick your poison.
Wyld Byll Hyltnyr
September 8th, 2009
2:32 pm
The blood is on Obumbler’s hands as he did not live up to campaign promises and he squandered the victory President Bush won. Obumbler lied, people died.
Bosch
September 8th, 2009
2:40 pm
I think it all depends on the strategy, but I don’t agree with sending in more troops.
I’ll concede that I do not feel we have been “at war” in Afghanistan for eight years, so I think the people will tolerate a chance to make real progress, but will not tolerate another complete clusterf&ck like we saw in Iraq.
TnGelding
September 8th, 2009
2:43 pm
The answer on Iraq is a big NO!
By striking fear into the hearts of the Taliban and al Qaeda they might retreat, at least temporarily. Any military action must be taken with irrefutable intelligence. The collateral damage has to be kept to the absolute minimum. The place to start is to convince the poppy farmers they need to be growing food instead, and pay them the same price to do so. They must also be given protection.
TnGelding
September 8th, 2009
2:45 pm
Wyld Byll Hyltnyr
September 8th, 2009
2:32 pm
To what campaign promises are you referring? Bush has been relegated to the scrap heap of history.
TnGelding
September 8th, 2009
2:47 pm
demwit
September 8th, 2009
1:51 pm
And he will!
Wyld Byll Hyltnyr
September 8th, 2009
2:47 pm
That he would listen to the military leadership and fight a smart war. Nothing Obumbler does is smart.
TnGelding
September 8th, 2009
2:50 pm
I Report/ Vast White Wing Conspirator (-: You Whine )-:
September 8th, 2009
2:03 pm
The troop surge in Iraq had little to do with the improved conditions and much to do with increased American casualties.
TnGelding
September 8th, 2009
2:56 pm
Wyld Byll Hyltnyr
September 8th, 2009
2:47 pm
From my perspective Gates is calling the shots. Has the militay recommended something Obama has refused that I’m not aware of? What were they doing for 7 1/3 years before Obama took office? Smart war is an oxymoron. Be patient, you’re in good, smart hands.
jt
September 8th, 2009
2:57 pm
“But our policy in Afghanistan can’t be driven by false hope ”
Why not? All other policies of the left are driven by this.
Scooter
September 8th, 2009
3:05 pm
If we are not going to bring the troops home then don’t make them follow the ROE. We will never gain thier hearts and minds!
Doggone/GA
September 8th, 2009
3:10 pm
“All other policies of the left are driven by this”
I think you’re misreading the statement. There’s a huge difference between hope and false hope.
Jake
September 8th, 2009
3:11 pm
Bookman turns war hawk, I like it. Afghanistan is infinitely more hopeless than Iraq in terms of any sort of victory/progress. And, as I’ve poined out before, they don’t have any oil. We can put one carrier in the Straight and keep the oil flowing. At least until Obama lets the Iranians develop a nuke.
@@
September 8th, 2009
3:17 pm
‘Tis a shame when we have to reflect on the words of our arch nemesis, Putin for good advice but here we have it:
Meanwhile, Nikolai Kovalyov, the former head of the Russian FSB security service, warned the US that an attack on Afghanistan would fail to capture Osama bin Laden, the alleged mastermind of the atrocities, and would backfire on the US. “In Afghanistan’s mountainous terrain it takes a trainload of explosives to destroy three militants,” he said. “The chance of hitting bin Laden is zero.” And then there’s this:
Putin Warns The US Against Socialism
My guess is Obama’s fumble into folly is making Putin a very happy “camper” on our doorstep.
Joey
September 8th, 2009
3:18 pm
“Al-Qaida …..; its capacity to exprot terrorism, already disrupted, can and must be diminished further.”
Jay are you saying that Al-Quaida was weakened by the war in Iraq? Or are you saying that the war in Afghanistan is what weakened them?
md
September 8th, 2009
3:19 pm
Funny how the dems called for “benchmarks” in Iraq while Georgie was in command, and now – not a word.
And how come no benchmarks for the Afghanis?
Oh, thats right, “our” guy in office.
Reform Will Happen
September 8th, 2009
3:24 pm
What was the lesson we learned in Iraq? I must have missed it–was it written down anywhere? What was the one we learned in Vietnam? I must have missed it–was it written down anywhere?
What was the lesson we learned at the Japanese Internment camps during WWII on US soil (da Homeland is the Ibsen 1880’s term no one uses but conservative zealots) because Bush and Obama sure have been imprisoning people for years with no charges and no Federal Rules of Evidence and no discovery pursuant to Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure?
Did we learn a lesson from the Japanese internment? I must have missed it. Is it written down anywhere?
@ Andy–I’ll get to your question on COLA next 24 hours–snowed under. It’s nothing at all like health care or rationing.
The most frightening thing I’ve seen in a classroom in history is this thing:-both because of what it did for eight years and the panic it displayed that day.
http://www.politicalcartoons.com/cartoon/3541de31-0411-47cf-92b9-21d70ae5ff2
I read the speech and it was a very good one. Parents who kept their kids away are double whackjobs. If the kid isn’t as dumb as you are, the kid will find the speech you didn’t want he she or it to see on the web. Further, we have huge education problems, particularly in Georgia perhaps the worst public education overall–not you Josef–but the bellshaped curve of schools. BTW how many classrooms South of Grady Hospital have you spent time in Joseph? Many aren’t good.
We have huge education problems and all ignorant people can talk about is how they can keep their kid away from a Presidential speech. Are you hoping your kid will grow up as narrow and ignorant as you are? Why don’t you expose your kid to both points of view and let he she it make up he she it’s own mind or do you want to brainwash it?
TaxPayer
September 8th, 2009
3:25 pm
WASHINGTON (CNN) – The Obama administration is creating 50 benchmarks to measure success in Afghanistan at a time when the United States is struggling to beat back a virulent Taliban presence there, senior U.S. officials say. Crafting of the upgraded benchmarks is nearly completed, the officials said Wednesday, adding they will become a part of larger objectives for the path ahead in Afghanistan set by the administration in March. The benchmarks were ordered by President Barack Obama
Scooter
September 8th, 2009
3:27 pm
@@
September 8th, 2009
3:17 pm
I agree with you on that one!
Reform Will Happen
September 8th, 2009
3:28 pm
The most frightnening thing in a classroom in US History: My bad on the link above.
http://www.politicalcartoons.com/cartoon/3541de31-0411-47cf-92b9-21d70ae5ff25.html
md
September 8th, 2009
3:29 pm
“WASHINGTON (CNN) – The Obama administration is creating 50 benchmarks to measure success in Afghanistan at a time when the United States is struggling to beat back a virulent Taliban presence there, senior U.S. officials say. Crafting of the upgraded benchmarks is nearly completed, the officials said Wednesday, adding they will become a part of larger objectives for the path ahead in Afghanistan set by the administration in March. The benchmarks were ordered by President Barack Obama ”
I guess some here don’t know the difference between “benchmark for success” vs “benchmark for the afganis or we take are toys and go home”.
GEORGE AMERICAN
September 8th, 2009
3:34 pm
WE WILL WHIP OSAMA’S BUTT IN AFGAHISTAN JUST LIKE WE BEAT HUSSAIN’S BUTT IN IRAG. THAT IS IF WE LEAVE IT UP TO THE MILITARY MEN AND FORGET WHATEVER HUSSAIN OBUMBLER SAYS.
OBUMBLER = “COMMANDER-IN-CHEF” WHAT A JOKE. DON’T MAKE ME LAUGH.
TaxPayer
September 8th, 2009
3:36 pm
I guess some people here read more into a post than others.
@@
September 8th, 2009
3:47 pm
Afghan Election Fraud Found by UN Commission
Allllllright! Good luck to Dr. Abdullah.
Come on…come on…come on…
I Report/ Vast White Wing Conspirator (-: You Whine )-:
September 8th, 2009
3:48 pm
WASHINGTON (CNN) – The Obama administration is creating 50 benchmarks to measure success in Afghanistan at a time
1. Karzai must create and/ or save 500,000 “green” jobs, whatever the hell those are.
2. Grant Obozo access to innocent Afghan school children, no adults allowed!
3. “Free” health care!
4. Implement Cash for Camels program.
5. Eco friendly AK47’s by the end of Fiscal 2011.
6. Mucho kampaign contributions to the democrat party!
7. Kard check for camel jockey’s. UAW membership or else.
8. All duh opium, forward it to the Kennedy compound, in care of Estate, Swimmer.
9. Change National flag from angry green to pastel/ pink combination.
10. Surrender to the damn terrorists, please!
TaxPayer
September 8th, 2009
3:49 pm
Almost every day, Patriot Depot sends more than 100,000 individuals emails with original content such as “The Ten Commandments According to Obama”– the first of which is:
Thou shalt have no God in America, except for me. For we are no longer a Christian nation and, after all, I am the chosen One. (And like God, I do not have a birth certificate.)
These “Commandments” also are for sale at Patriot Depot on a t-shirt.
Which brings us to emailers with itchy FWD fingers.
“We hope they’ll forward the emails on,” Taylor says. He acknowledges that such people serve as unwitting salespeople in a multi-tiered marketing system, like Amway’s.
He is reluctant to divulge the resulting annual sales, other than “between one and ten million dollars.” An educated guess is $3.5 million. “Initially it was a business opportunity,” he says. “Then we saw an opportunity to get the message out.”
I’ll bet he owns a chain of Christian book stores too. Those conservative right wing nutter butters are just too easy a mark.
TaxPayer
September 8th, 2009
3:51 pm
What’s the problem, Andy. You got ten toes too, dontcha. At least give us twenty of the fifty.
Brad Steel
September 8th, 2009
3:54 pm
Whine,
Glenn Beck is looking for a new writer. As reinforced by your post above, you have the comedy chops to write for the hysterical Glenn Beck. If you fail, try call Carrot Top’s people.
your pal,
Brad
mike
September 8th, 2009
3:55 pm
“We know now that Iraq isn’t fated to become the peaceful, pro-American democracy envisioned by President Bush, at least not in the foreseeable future.”
Can anyone provide a citation for a speech in which Bush promised a peaceful pro-American democracy? (Not set as a goal, but “promised”.)
We all know that Jay feels the same contempt for Bush that Limbaugh feels for Obama. Regardless, he should can the wild hyperbole. Like Limbaugh’s gross exaggerations, this rhetoric results in disgusted dismissal by sensible folks and furthers the ignorance of others who take such nonsense as further justification of their partisan hatreds.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
September 8th, 2009
3:56 pm
Well, it sure is tough for us Conservatives. We always like war and are against ever pulling out of one. But we don’t want it to go good for this Obama, so we can have another 2 x 4 to hit him over the head with. But if it don’t go good we will have to stock up on more Support the Troops stickers and see a bunch of caskets with flags on them. But if it goes good this Obama might could be reelected and we will be in for 4 more years of Socialism. This is worse than watching your mother-in-law drive over a cliff in your new Cadillac.
And ain’t they got a Supreme Court over there that could decide the election in favor of this Karzai? And don’t they have a photo ID law? Anyhow, I know Diebold could settle the thing in about 20 minutes of programming.
Scooter
September 8th, 2009
4:02 pm
Report/ Vast White Wing Conspirator (-: You Whine )-:
September 8th, 2009
3:48 pm
Too funny dude!
Normal
September 8th, 2009
4:02 pm
I believe it is time to hold our President to his promise. We all should write the Presidental web site and the Democratic web site every day. MR. PRESIDENT, BRING OUR TROOPS HOME NOW.
md
September 8th, 2009
4:05 pm
“Why don’t you expose your kid to both points of view and let he she it make up he she it’s own mind or do you want to brainwash it?”
Now come on doc, this coming from someone that posts from the left side of the room. Maybe you should consider the advice for yourself.
Scooter
September 8th, 2009
4:11 pm
Normal, I concur!
jt
September 8th, 2009
4:13 pm
Normal -
Hell Yeah.
jt
September 8th, 2009
4:16 pm
It is weird that female camels are the only creatures on earth who ovalate AFTER being inseminated.
mike
September 8th, 2009
4:16 pm
Somebody needs to provide an assessment of what the potential results of different policies for Afghanistan.
There seems to be a trade-off where we can decrease our troop levels and use drones and missiles to take out suspects, but we are going to kill a bunch of bystanders in the process. Some comparative metrics on this would be useful. We also need an assessment of how well we could prevent the development of large AQ camps. We had the chance to get him standing in the open in Afghanistan pre-9/11, but just didn’t do so because of lack of will to do so. Could we keep such camps from developing with a few Marine battalions and missiles?
We need some tools to help guide the national discussion on Afghanistan. It would be nice if the media took a break from opinion and gave us some facts without the taint of partisan spin.
Thomas Jefferson
September 8th, 2009
4:19 pm
Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.
Scooter
September 8th, 2009
4:21 pm
jt
September 8th, 2009
4:16 pm
It is weird that female camels are the only creatures on earth who ovalate AFTER being inseminated.
I think I missed something. Is the topic “beastiality”
Normal
September 8th, 2009
4:23 pm
http://www.whitehouse.gov
http://www.democrats.org.
Everyday I’m sending them an email: Please bring our troops home from Iraq and Afghanistan now.
Jake
September 8th, 2009
4:24 pm
Enter your comments here
pat
September 8th, 2009
4:25 pm
War sucks. It always has and always will. The most merciful war is won decisively as quickly as possible. We have to not only stay the course but to ramp up military action. Losing ground and fooling around with the enemy will only drag out the war. We need to get the politics out of it and let these soldiers do what is necessary to erraticate the al qaeda and the taliban. It has dragged on to long, but just giving up and leaving is the worst possible move….
Jake
September 8th, 2009
4:25 pm
Question 1 – More troops in Iraq or Afghanistan last month? Question 2 – More U.S. casualties in Iraq or Afghanistan last month?
jconservative
September 8th, 2009
4:26 pm
mike September 8th, 2009 4:16 pm
Go to Council on Foreign Relations for discussions of foreign relations from all points of view & from all political persuasions.
http://www.cfr.org/
Scooter
September 8th, 2009
4:38 pm
pat
September 8th, 2009
4:25 pm
Iwill have to disagree. We can’t even erraticate red ants in our own country! And we can’t erraticate them either.
demwit
September 8th, 2009
4:43 pm
What are you people talking about!? The war in Afghanistan is going well.., now that Obama “reset” our foreign policies with all those disgruntled NATO allies! Yes we can!!
DoggoneGA
September 8th, 2009
4:48 pm
“WE WILL WHIP OSAMA’S BUTT IN AFGAHISTAN”
But first we have to get him to COME to Afghanistan.
DoggoneGA
September 8th, 2009
4:49 pm
“after all, I am the chosen One”
Isn’t it just AMAZING how critical they seem to be of their Messiah? I mean, they must think that…they say it so often. And here I always thought Messiahs were to be obeyed without question. Live and learn, I guess.
Paul
September 8th, 2009
4:49 pm
Jay
Yes, it is a difficult situation.
[[We will and must turn that country over to its own people and its own fate, and the sooner the better.]]
I’ll submit we’ve wanted to turn that country over to its own people and its own fate, once we remade the government into something based on our values and vision – which are not necessarily the same as those of a large part of Afghanistan.
[[For years, we’ve treated Afghanistan as a holding action while resources and manpower were committed to Iraq. Only now, eight years after the attacks of Sept. 11, are we beginning to focus on the region where this whole mess originated.]]
Again, the mission has evolved. We do tend to stay where we go and to pick up new stuff to do. One can make the case we largely accomplished what we went there to do. We just forgot to leave.
Remember why Pres Bush said went into Afg (Operation Enduring Freedom} on Oct 7, 2001: “More than two weeks ago, I gave Taliban leaders a series of clear and specific demands: Close terrorist training camps; hand over leaders of the al Qaeda network; and return all foreign nationals, including American citizens, unjustly detained in your country. None of these demands were met. And now the Taliban will pay a price. By destroying camps and disrupting communications, we will make it more difficult for the terror network to train new recruits and coordinate their evil plans….As we strike military targets, we’ll also drop food, medicine and supplies to the starving and suffering en and women and children of Afghanistan….This military action is a part of our campaign against terrorism,another front in a war that has already been joined through diplomacy,intelligence, the freezing of financial assets and the arrests ofknown terrorists by law enforcement agents in 38 countries.”
So if the Taliban had complied, we’d not have invaded and the Taliban would still be in power. Think about that. So… why now the drive to eradicate the Taliban if they agree with our initial demands and do not harbor AQ?
[[the incoming Obama administration only settled on its strategy in late March and installed a new commander in June]]
Strategy is the how of what we want to accomplish. Pres Obama laid out in March what his objectives are (sort of). : “He revisited the history of Al Qaeda planning the attacks from camps in Taliban-controlled Afghanistan, and he insisted that Al Qaeda is now “actively planning attacks on the United States” from “safe havens in Pakistan.” As a result, Obama says, “For the American people, this border region has become the most dangerous place in the world.”… The new strategy is designed to “restore basic security in Afghanistan,” he said, without reference to the lofty goals of democratization and freedom set by former president Bush.”… The administration says the new strategy narrows the focus of US involvement to Al Qaeda. “Disrupting, dismantling, and defeating Al Qaeda – the president set down a marker that this is our goal in Afghanistan,” adds Caitlin Hayden, National Security Council director for communications.”
Still, as recently as today we still read “The heart of the problem, soldiers fighting in Afghanistan and some officials in Washington told McClatchy, is that neither Barack Obama’s White House nor the Pentagon has clearly defined America’s mission in Afghanistan. As a result, some soldiers in the field said, they aren’t sure what their objectives are.”
So he wants to ‘defeat’ AQ (sorry about that ‘winning versus losing” thing). But they’re fluid and they’re in Pakistan. Uh-oh. And we must oversee this democracy thing. And change the education system. And try to convince them this medieval Muslim thing isn’t good for progress.
Maybe Pres Obama should reread Pres Bush’s Oct 7 address.
josef nix
September 8th, 2009
4:51 pm
When Afghanistan was liberated from the Taliban, and it was liberated, our children at school were concerned by the fact that they had prohibited education and that there were no schools. Of their own volition, our kids collected and shipped packets of school supplies “to the children of Afghanistan from the children of Georgia”. They believed then that this was what we “were there for.”
The Taliban elements operating in Afghanistan have targeted the schools and the schoolchildren. This shows what it is they are afraid of–not bombs, not missiles, not armored convoys, but paper, pencils, books and ideas.
This is where we outsiders should be putting our efforts. Build schools and protect them. Make them the safe havens where young Afghanis can dream and plan and work to build a better society. There is a small and dedicated Afghani educated class, mostly returning from abroad, that we can put in charge of the content, curriculum and instruction. Encourage them. Give them what they need. Put our emphasis there.
In a generation, there will be a new Afghanistan armed with what is needed to banish the Taliban. It will take a generation to accomplish. Do we have the dedication? Do we have the foresight and moral compass of the little ones at our school?
Paul
September 8th, 2009
4:51 pm
TnGelding 2:56
[[From my perspective Gates is calling the shots. Has the militay recommended something Obama has refused that I’m not aware of?]]
Gates is “calling the shots” based upon the guidance he receives from the President. The President sets the objectives. He then tells the SecDef to make it happen. The SecDef turns to to the Centcom Commander for the plans.
Of course, this gets a bit muddied with Afghanistan because it is a NATO mission, after all.
So when the military commander reports back to the Pres and says “this is what you said you wanted, this is the plan with the troops and the strategy to make it happen.” Then the Pres says ‘ummm, political considerations. Can you do it with less troops?” and the military says “whatever” and goes on trying to do the mission the Pres gave them. But not the resources. Like I said. You think it was bad Pres Bush couldn’t get armored Humvees into Iraq fast enough? Or that he went in without them? Try Pres Obama giving the military a mission in Afg. But not the manpower to do it.
Meanwhile, the military slogs along trying to do what it thinks the Pres wants done.
DoggoneGA
September 8th, 2009
4:51 pm
“It is weird that female camels are the only creatures on earth who ovalate AFTER being inseminated”
They must be related to cats and rabbits, then…because both of those species also do not ovulate until after they are bred.
Davo
September 8th, 2009
4:59 pm
“Asking American kids to die defending a fraudulent foreign government is asking a lot.”
So why are we supporting Israel?
josef nix
September 8th, 2009
5:01 pm
Maybe that explains why the camel is such a cantakerous beast. Can you imagine life at the Camel homestead when the missus has early morning sickness AND is on her period?
josef nix
September 8th, 2009
5:04 pm
DAVO–Israel is a vibrant, functioning, multi-party democratic state. We may or may not agree with some of its policies, but then we don’t agree with many of our own. It is not fraudulent and, to the best of my recollection, none of our American kids have died in its defense.
mike
September 8th, 2009
5:05 pm
jconservative –
I actually subscribe to Foreign Affairs, the print arm of the CFR. The problem is that the CFR’s reach is limited to a few hundred thousand. All of the media arms that reach the mass audience are slanted outlets that want to talk about the “debate” over Obama’s school speech.
I Report/ Vast White Wing Conspirator (-: You Whine )-:
September 8th, 2009
5:05 pm
Another historic, monumental speech from the 44th President of the United States. He’s averaging about one of these every three weeks now, isn’t he?
Remember Charlie Brown’s teacher?
Blah blah, blah blah.
Tom
September 8th, 2009
5:06 pm
One can talk and talk endlessly. The ultimate conclusion is that we need to get the hell out of this Missing-Link BushDrunk-caused nightmare before we kill any more U.S. “heroic” troops – to say nothing of the hoardes of innocent citizens our little Gop Repunks seem to rejoice in slaughtering. As always – as long as they are 10,000 miles away from any…”action.” Always been that way. Our very own GOP saboteurs.
rapunzel
September 8th, 2009
5:13 pm
“One can talk and talk endlessly. The ultimate conclusion is that we need to get the hell out of this Missing-Link BushDrunk-caused nightmare before we kill any more U.S. “heroic” troops – to say nothing of the hoardes of innocent citizens our little Gop Repunks seem to rejoice in slaughtering. As always – as long as they are 10,000 miles away from any…”action.” Always been that way. Our very own GOP saboteurs.’
Obama is killing them now dude. Captain of the obvious. He could have withdrawn them all in eight months. Instead he is sending more. Spin that.
mike
September 8th, 2009
5:15 pm
Tom -
Let me guess. You are one of the folks who alternates between whining about others questioning your patriotism and questionioning other people’s patriotism
TnGelding
September 8th, 2009
5:20 pm
Scooter
September 8th, 2009
3:05 pm
Not the hardcore extremists, but the rest of the citizenry is capable.
TnGelding
September 8th, 2009
5:24 pm
md
September 8th, 2009
3:19 pm
Give them time. The honeymoon is nearly over. There’s nothing smart that can be done to get out of this ill-advised invasion. Just dumb and dumber.
DoggoneGA
September 8th, 2009
5:25 pm
“Spin that”
“You break it, you own it” Colin Powell
TaxPayer
September 8th, 2009
5:26 pm
Army Spc. Gregory James Missman died in Afghanistan after suffering wounds from an improvised explosive device in July.
Missman, 36, re-enlisted in the military after being laid off from his job as a computer consultant. Missman served in the Army 11 years earlier.
According to Missman’s father, health care is what pushed his son back into service. After losing his job, Missman’s young family, a wife and son were no longer insured.
He was deployed to Afghanistan June 5 and mortally wounded July 8.
Missman was awarded the purple heart before he died.
Normal
September 8th, 2009
5:27 pm
Josef, your 4:51, You help me remind President Obama of his promise to end the wars and I’ll help you supply every school child in those countries. If we can accomplish what you said, then I WILL believe that the pen is mightier than the sword. Deal?
@@
September 8th, 2009
5:29 pm
No doubt millions of people will be listening to the words of President Barack Obama Wednesday night when he makes a televised address to a joint session of Congress on his medical care plans. But, if they think that the words he says are what matters, they can be led into something much worse than being swindled out of their money.
One plain fact should outweigh all the words of Barack Obama and all the impressive trappings of the setting in which he says them: He tried to rush Congress into passing a massive government takeover of the nation’s medical care before the August recess– for a program that would not take effect until 2013!
Whatever President Obama is, he is not stupid. If the urgency to pass the medical care legislation was to deal with a problem immediately, then why postpone the date when the legislation goes into effect for years– more specifically, until the year after the next Presidential election?
Excellent question, Dr. Sowell. EXCELLENT!
josef nix
September 8th, 2009
5:32 pm
NORMAL–Deal. And while we’re at it, maybe we could get Fierce Advocate to address the Afghani school kids, eh?
Hef
September 8th, 2009
5:32 pm
Boy I’m sure glad ol Barry’s in charge now,but wait how come no one has said “cut & run”? That was voiced daily up until 8 months ago,hmmmmm. Barry, I Love You Man!
Scooter
September 8th, 2009
5:32 pm
TnG, I’m glad you are more optomistic than me. If we must stay there,josef’s idea might work. Not what we are doing now. IMHO
Hey josef, the school thing is a great idea, but I still say remove the ROE!
josef nix
September 8th, 2009
5:36 pm
I’ll catch up with y’all later…tonight’s open house at school and I’ve got to go play diplomat! But seriously, if each of our churches, temples, mosques, civic organizations, political pundits and what have you would adopt one school…think of what could be done…
TnGelding
September 8th, 2009
5:37 pm
“Roadside bombs kill 4 US soldiers in Iraq”
BAGHDAD (AP) – Four U.S. soldiers were killed by roadside bombs Tuesday, the deadliest day for American forces in Iraq since combat troops pulled back from urban areas more than two months ago. The separate attacks in Baghdad and in northern Iraq showed the dangers still facing U.S. troops as they drastically scale back their presence and prepare for a full withdrawal by the end of 2011. The monthly U.S. death toll has declined sharply this year, falling into single digits for the first time, with American troops shifting to a mainly support and training role in line with a security pact that took effect on Jan. 1. August saw the lowest monthly toll since the war began in 2003, with seven U.S. deaths.
http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/ML_IRAQ?SITE=GACAT&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2009-09-08-17-22-36
Hef
September 8th, 2009
5:40 pm
James Missman, with a heavy heart I thank you for your service. God Bless
TaxPayer
September 8th, 2009
5:45 pm
Bring back the draft. If wars are so necessary, then nearly everyone should have to fight. I say draft male, female, etc., between the ages of 18 and 65, i.e., everyone old enough to drink and young enough to remember it the next day, and require a minimum of one year of active service with no exceptions except for the CiC.
@@
September 8th, 2009
5:49 pm
Send everyone from age 18 to 65?
Who’ll be left to generate revenue.
DoggoneGA
September 8th, 2009
5:49 pm
“require a minimum of one year of active service with no exceptions except for the CiC”
How about: you aren’t eligible to run for Pres UNTIL you do your year of service?
@@
September 8th, 2009
5:52 pm
Oh…forgot…Obama is excluded from service. He can do it. YES HE CAN!
WASHINGTON – The federal government’s tax revenue is on track to drop 18 percent this year, the biggest annual decline since the depths of the Great Depression, according to an analysis by The Associated Press.
Individual income tax revenue is down 22 percent and corporate income tax receipts have fallen 57 percent compared with 2008, according to the AP. Social Security tax revenue might have only its second year-over-year decline since 1940, and Medicare tax receipts could fall for only the third time since they started being collected in the 1960s.
Meanwhile, the federal deficit is projected to reach a record $1.8 trillion this year, as the national debt tops $11 trillion, the AP said.
mike
September 8th, 2009
5:52 pm
Yes. A 280 million person army makes sense, although we are going to get hungry pretty fast.
Scooter
September 8th, 2009
5:54 pm
Dang Taxpayer, I have already been through one draft.Can’t vets get an exception in this new draft of yours!
mike
September 8th, 2009
5:54 pm
“How about: you aren’t eligible to run for Pres UNTIL you do your year of service?”
And no voting until you do a four year tour either.
Paul
September 8th, 2009
5:54 pm
Doggone/GA
“Spin that”
“You break it, you own it” Colin Powell
“You keep playing with it, it’s yours.” Me.
Taxpayer
[[and require a minimum of one year of active service with no exceptions except for the CiC.]]
It’s have to be, as basic training, initial specialty training and follow-on training can take up to a year for some specialties. Then, training to minimum competency can take another year. Now we need to get our money’s worth out of them, so we should keep them around for another couple of years.
People aren’t gonna be very happy with you -
DoggoneGA
September 8th, 2009
5:56 pm
“A 280 million person army makes sense, although we are going to get hungry pretty fast.”
NO draft requires everyone to do their service at the same time…not even a war-time draft.
jt
September 8th, 2009
5:56 pm
DogStyle-
I stand to be corrected. That just shows that you can not ever believe everything that you read.
Maybe the Author of this camel book meant that female camels never go into heat. Anyhoo, thanks for the correction.
It is interesting to note that a group of cats are called a clowder.
Female cats are seasonally polyestrous, which means they may have many periods of heat over the course of a year, the season beginning in January or February and ending in late October. Heat period occur about every two weeks and lasts about 4 to 7 days.[133] Multiple males will be attracted to a female in heat. The males will fight over her, and the victor wins the right to mate. At first, the female will reject the male, but eventually the female will allow the male to mate. The female will give a loud yowl as the male pulls out of her. After mating, the female will wash her vulva thoroughly. If a male attempts to breed with her at this point, the female will attack him. After about 20 to 30 minutes. once the female is finished grooming, the cycle will repeat.[133]
The male cat’s penis has a band of about 120-150 backwards-pointing spines, which are about one millimeter long.[134] Upon withdrawal of the penis, the spines rake the walls of the female’s vagina, which may cause ovulation. Because ovulation is not always triggered by a single mating, females may not be impregnated by the first male with which they mate.[135] Furthermore, cats are superfecund; that is, a female may mate with more than one male when she is in heat, meaning different kittens in a litter may have different fathers.[133]
Paul
September 8th, 2009
5:57 pm
Doggone/GA
[[How about: you aren’t eligible to run for Pres UNTIL you do your year of service?]]
Don’t tell me you think the Pres should be ineligible to run for a second term?!!?
@@
[[Who’ll be left to generate revenue.]]
Well, at a cost of over $100,000 a year per soldier….
you really like deficits, don’t you?
DoggoneGA
September 8th, 2009
5:59 pm
“Don’t tell me you think the Pres should be ineligible to run for a second term?!!?”
How do you come to THAT conclusion?
md
September 8th, 2009
6:00 pm
“You break it, you own it” Colin Powell”
And if it was already broken?
Paul
September 8th, 2009
6:03 pm
Doggone/GA
Well, you said what about making people ineligible to run for Pres until they’ve done a year’s military service, and the Pres has not done a year of military service, so….
DoggoneGA
September 8th, 2009
6:06 pm
“And if it was already broken?”
If what was already broken? We “broke” Iraq by attacking a country that was no threat to us. We BROKE Afghanistan by redirecting forces from Afghanistan TO Iraq…a country that was no threat to us. We broke them BOTH, we “own” them both. And no, I don’t hold Obama responsible for “breaking his promises” because I was never stupid enough to believe them in the first place.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
September 8th, 2009
6:08 pm
Well, I’ll go along with making everybody go into a draft. I want to see Sister Dusty and mike and Paul and other godly Conservatives putting what they say we should do into action. Now some of us done our military service already. So I reckon we need to stock up on yellow ribbons that say things like Support Sister Dusty and Support mike and Support Paul.
Do they let recruits take Chevy Cavaliers to boot camp now?
DoggoneGA
September 8th, 2009
6:10 pm
“Well, you said what about making people ineligible to run for Pres until they’ve done a year’s military service, and the Pres has not done a year of military service, so”
I said “your year” of service…not “a year’s” service. If the requirement was set to do a year of service…then I would say you are not eligible to run for Pres UNTIL you done that year of service, minimum. You do your year at 18…you’re elgible to run when you are 60.
taco bueno
September 8th, 2009
6:11 pm
“Do they let recruits take Chevy Cavaliers to boot camp now?’
Don’t ask don’t tell..