Dole chides Obama on health care, and for good reason

In a Washington Post op-ed, Bob Dole offers advice to President Obama on how to proceed from here with health-care reform. He recommends putting together a plan that will pass with bipartisan support, which is nonsense. The Republicans have made it very clear by now that they don’t intend to help Obama pass a reform plan, and the White House has surely gotten that message.

On his main point, however, Dole is right on.

“If I were a White House adviser, I would suggest that the day Congress reconvenes, President Obama’s version of reform should be introduced by Democratic leaders in the House and Senate. Health-care reform is the vital issue of our time, and Obama should be out front with his specific plan on this make-or-break issue.

Many of us were taught that the president proposes and Congress disposes. Today, Congress is doing both — with the president relegated to the role of cheerleader in chief as he campaigns for various House committees’ efforts. Certainly, Obama supports much in these proposals — but Barack Obama is our president, not a commentator.

Obama’s approval numbers would jump 10 points if Americans knew he was fully in charge. A tactical move of introducing his own plan would also stir more Republicans to become active for reform in critical areas. Right now the president’s biggest problem is with congressional Democrats, who are split and searching for a way out of the medical wilderness.”

If Obama wants health-care reform, he’s going to have to fight hard for it. His continued credibility as a political power depends on success, which is of course exactly why the Republicans have made it a matter of party discipline to oppose him.

225 comments Add your comment

I Report/ Vast White Wing Conspirator (-: You Whine )-:

August 31st, 2009
11:47 am

Little Obozo Horn! Waterlooney!

He chose to take on the American people with his little goony kampaign of hate, now he is going down.

bwa

I Report/ Vast White Wing Conspirator (-: You Whine )-:

August 31st, 2009
11:49 am

Why is Dull giving advice to the America haters?

Does he think this will help him with the Death Panels?

pat

August 31st, 2009
11:49 am

I oppose him because his plan is terrible. His biggest mistakes is letting the screw ball from congress create the bills and him not reading it. Health care needs to be fixed not ruined. The current proposal would be tragic if passed.

mike

August 31st, 2009
11:50 am

“His continued credibility as a political power depends on success, which is of course exactly why the Republicans have made it a matter of party discipline to oppose him.”

The Democrats applied the same policy to Bush regarding immigration and Social Security. It’s very effective politically, but does nothing for the country.

Doggone/GA

August 31st, 2009
11:51 am

“The current proposal would be tragic if passed.”

Proof please…or even evidence will do if you can’t find proof. Your say-so doesn’t make it fact.

Turd Ferguson

August 31st, 2009
11:51 am

Hey hey Ho ho, OboboCare has got to go!!

Taxpayer

August 31st, 2009
11:52 am

Well, the easiest way to win over the majority of the remaining Republican party is to give them free Viagra. It worked for the mid-east sect of the Taliban, it’ll work here too. One dose and they’ll be sayin’, “Damn, that Lynn Jenkins is hot!”

Turd Ferguson

August 31st, 2009
11:52 am

Doggone/GA

August 31st, 2009
11:51 am

And you yet again silly rebuttal doesnt make it not fact.

Doggone/GA

August 31st, 2009
11:54 am

“And you yet again silly rebuttal doesnt make it not fact.”

And THAT response tells me exactly how much credence to give to the OPINION presented: none

I Report/ Vast White Wing Conspirator (-: You Whine )-:

August 31st, 2009
11:55 am

Can it be anymore obvious that Obozo would rather throw the democrat party under the bus than he would the ambulance chasers/ trial lawyers?

What an amazing feat he has accomplished for Conservatives, no compromise without tort reform and if he drives on unabated the dimocrat party is kaput forever more.

So yes, Mr. Dull, give him an escape hatch, place a pillow upon the crash site, return Conservatism back to the mediocrity that you squish moderates admire so much.

Gee, thanks.

Turd Ferguson

August 31st, 2009
11:56 am

The only torture I see thrust upon the American Public is by Obobo and his band of Merry-Idiots. Destroying the economy, persecuting the CIA, allowing nuts like Pelosi and Rahmbo to run rampant and spewing lies one after the other.

Obobo will go down in history as one of the worst if not THE WORST president ever.

Doggone/GA

August 31st, 2009
11:57 am

“will go down in history as one of the worst if not THE WORST president ever”

what’s the winning lottery number?

Paul

August 31st, 2009
12:01 pm

[[The Republicans have made it very clear by now that they don’t intend to help Obama pass a reform plan, and the White House has surely gotten that message.]]

The Progressive Democrats have made it very clear by now that they don’t intend to help Obama pass a reform plan without a public option. Republicans have made clear they’re opposed to a public option but have proposed other health care reforms. Democrats have shut them down. Reference Rep Burgess, a doctor who’s proposed reforms.

[[Right now the president’s biggest problem is with congressional Democrats, who are split and searching for a way out of the medical wilderness.”]]

Yup, Republicans aren’t his biggest problem. Democrats are.

[[I would suggest that the day Congress reconvenes, President Obama’s version of reform should be introduced by Democratic leaders in the House and Senate.]]

Any idea, anyone, of specifically what that version is? Anyone?

I agree with the last.. The Delegator needs to become the Leader. He hasn’t yet. It remains to be seen if he will.

Jackie

August 31st, 2009
12:12 pm

President Obama should present his health care policy to Congress and the public with the caveat, there will be NO major consideration given for bipartisan support. The Repubs are not interested in what is best for the citizens, only for their reelection prospects.

The President needs to stop trying to convince these adult children there is need for this legislative action to take place. Given the fact that 17% of our GDP is consumed by medical costs today; 64% of all bankruptcies are due to medical costs; medical premiums have increased by 140% in the last decade; medical inflation has increased 14% per annum, on average; without change, the next 20 years will see medical costs consume 40% of our GDP.

President Obama should put his proposals on the table, speak directly to the American public and dare the Repubs to veto it. We will see if the Repubs have enough political backbone to oppose the bill that will save all of us from financial ruin.

RW-(the original)

August 31st, 2009
12:13 pm

The Republicans have made it very clear by now that they don’t intend to help Obama pass a reform plan, and the White House has surely gotten that message.

I guess Jay B is just a tad off on that observation

Mrs. Godzilla

August 31st, 2009
12:13 pm

Chill…..Obama’s got this.

Jackie

August 31st, 2009
12:16 pm

@I Report

Wonder how the tort reform law in Texas has worked to control medical costs. It is the most restrictive and comprehensive in the nation and they have realized no savings from the legislation and medical injury and medical costs are still rising.

stands for decibels

August 31st, 2009
12:17 pm

If Obama wants health-care reform, he’s going to have to fight hard for it.

Jay, it’d be pretty silly to bet that he won’t.

And you guys who’ve been declaring healthcare reform dead for the past month are either woefully unaware of Obama’s usual strategy of taking on particularly difficult obstacles, or just in denial about how effective he’s been at doing that in the past.

The guy’s beaten back the Clintons. He turned IN and NC blue, for crying out loud. You think he can’t handle the likes of Baccus & Boner?

Paul

August 31st, 2009
12:18 pm

Jackie

Ummm, look at the numbers. Republicans don’t need to oppose anything. Or support anything. Democrats, with their majorities, can pass or prevent whatever they want.

Republicans should keep quiet and neither support nor oppose. Whatever happens will be up to Democrats, and so far, left up to them, the prospects for reform do not look promising.

But Democrats need someone to blame for failure. Someone to demonize. Anything to avoid accepting responsibility for their failure to pass needed legislation.

AmVet

August 31st, 2009
12:19 pm

Bob Dole. At least he was a class act.

And not at all surprisingly the chickenhawk infested GOP kicked all of their combat veterans to the curb like so much rubbish – Dole, Hagel, McCain.

They can’t stand someone who has actually seen war, who has actually fought for their lives. As opposed to these craven members of the 101st Chairborne, who for years have been crying out from under their beds, “BR AFWADE! BE VEWY AFWADE! Of everybody and eveything!’

And to this extent I say they have already lost their “war on terrorism”.

Yes, the Islamo-murderers have already beat them.

Because the sandy barbarians know that his element of our society is already well on the way to becoming just like them. Torturing, spying on their own, law evading “Criminal Crusaders”.

But being utterly gutless they are even worse in some ways, as they lack even the valor or courage to do anything but talk…

I Report/ Vast White Wing Conspirator (-: You Whine )-:

August 31st, 2009
12:20 pm

The changes to medical liability in 2003 were extraordinary, and had a very substantial impact, including:

1. In August 2004, the Texas Hospital Association reported a 70% reduction in the number of lawsuits filed against the state’s hospitals.
2. Medical liability insurance rates declined. Many doctors saw average rate reductions of over 21%, with some doctors seeing almost 50% decreases. (Recent information provided to The Perryman Group during the course of this study suggests that premiums are declining even further in 2008.)
3. Beginning in 2003, physicians started returning to Texas. The Texas Medical Board reports licensing 10,878 new physicians since 2003, up from 8,391 in the prior four years. Perryman has determined that at least 1,887 of those physicians are specifically the result of lawsuit reform.
4. In May 2006, the American Medical Association removed Texas from its list of states experiencing a liability crisis, marking the first time it has removed any state from the list. A recent survey by the Texas Medical Association also found a dramatic increase in physicians’ willingness to resume certain procedures they had stopped performing, including obstetrics, neurosurgical, radiation and oncological procedures.

Last year, TLR commissioned a study by The Perryman Group to figure out the impact of these reforms (the above are excerpted from that report). Here are the economic impact findings of that study:

$112.5 billion increase in annual spending
$51.2 billion increase in annual output – goods and services produced in Texas
$2.6 billion increase in annual state tax revenue
$468.9 million in annual benefits from safer products
$15.2 billion in annual net benefits of enhanced innovation
499,000 permanent jobs
430,000 additional Texans have health insurance today as a result of the medical liability reforms

Yeah, ok.

Turd Ferguson

August 31st, 2009
12:21 pm

Jackie

August 31st, 2009
12:12 pm

LOL…you are just so dis-informed. The Dems dont need the Reps to pass OboboCare. The fight exists within the Democrap party.

Why dont you roll over now and go back to sleep.

Katy Couric

August 31st, 2009
12:23 pm

Im just a miserable little troll.

Paul

August 31st, 2009
12:23 pm

Report/Whine

Howard Dean told the Party Faithful what they didn’t want to hear: Democrats oppose tort reform because they don’t want to tick off trial lawyers (ever seen those campaign contributions?).

I don’t think the audience knew how to handle that bit of truth telling.

Question

August 31st, 2009
12:29 pm

Who elected these morons (again, with the “if you disagree you must be racist”…) –

KABC’s Michael Linder was the only broadcast reporter at Thursday night’s town hall health care debate at Wade AME Church when Rep. Diane Watson [D] made some astonishing comments including claims that those opposed to health care reform are attempting to destroy a president “who looks like me.”

Scooter

August 31st, 2009
12:31 pm

Paul, @ 12:18
I couldn’t agree more. Good luck with Jackie understanding that! :roll:

Brittancus

August 31st, 2009
12:33 pm

Even though I am a great believer in a Senators Kennedy’s public option choice to Health care. But I am adamantly–OPPOSED–to any path to citizenship for illegal immigrants he also endorsed. But alas Health care and illegal immigration are joined a the proverbial hip and must be separated. In 1985 immigration bill Sen. Kennedy assured the American people, that another AMNESTY would–NEVER–be enacted in future sessions of Congress. He was after all one of the principal authors of the Simpson/Mazzoli bill, in which he committed himself to all of the American public. Speed up a–POINTS SYSTEM–for top of the pinnacle highly skilled workers, but no more hosting millions of indigent foreign labor and families, who become public welfare charges.

Once again we will be confronting this major dilemma on immigration reform, mainly because over many administrations immigration enforcement was never carried out. Over these decades lax policies have caused a massive overload of foreigners, who compromised themselves by not following the law, but are not entirely to blame? The awful fact is that the 1986 legislation was under funded and engineered for the particular business sector, unions, church, specialized attorneys and radical minority organizations by certain politicians. Since than the costs have been magnified, parallel to the–TRILLIONS–spent on nation building wars. At least 20 million illegal immigrants now reside in America, and decades of neglect, has swollen the numbers that in future years will undoubtedly cause irreversible overpopulation as analyzed by the US Census Bureau?

Trying to deport so many people is a possibility and a very expensive proposition. But their is another avenue that could be used, with equal success and not costing anywhere near using a forced deportation? We must demand from our rogue lawmakers in Washington to introduce a mandated, funded E-Verify? We know it works well because Special interest groups have used their influence to derail it. In the courts they have resuscitated racial profiling, including that it was faulty in its operation. The cure is simple–plaintiffs should go to the local Social Security office for straightening out irregularities. Until now we didn’t realize its power to perform and remove illegal immigrants from the work floor and therefore our government should make it available to every employer under the penalty of fines and prison. BEFORE ANY NEW WORKER IS HIRED, THEY SHOULD BE GIVEN AN E-VERIFICATION FORM WARNING THEM OF USING BOGUS ID AND A LEGAL FORM TO SIGN UNDER THE PENALTY OF PERJURY IN MAJOR FOREIGN LANGUAGES. EACH BUSINESS MUST BE MANDATED TO DISPLAY AN E-VERIFY NOTICE. THEIR SHOULD BE A REWARD TO WORKERS, WHO CORRECTLY REPORTS ILLEGAL LABOR ACTIVITY TO ICE.

Democratic leadership made a fatal error, as it had already been funded for months to come E-Verify. The public eye and anti-illegal immigration groups became instantly aware of its special use. An outcry to Washington caused a re-emergence of this utility and now is firmly placed as a workable tool. Further innovations and technical progress–MUST–be made available and reasonable appropriations to modify its accessibility for the most fundamental PC operative? As time goes by, as all new computer programs bugs and errors will be removed and new versions will appear. A few Eastern states have made it fully functioning, while rebel states as California–a Sanctuary illegal immigrant state–is defying its use. Through voluntary now, over time it could cause mass evacuation of illegal labor from the workplace as by “Attrition”. Millions will surely give up as employers will live under a dark cloud of penalties and return slowly to their home country.

The 1986 (IRCA) immigration act is very potent and is currently under attack by unions, ACLU, US Chamber of Commerce, as is E-Verify, 287 G, the border fence and anything that smells of enforcement. Corporate entities–COMMAND–unparalleled cheap labor with no restriction, which has been honored by certain unethical politicians who do not represent the majority of the jobless public. Years of inactivity by unethical politicians caused the immigration mess in the first place. So the old adage stands its ground even today, “You made this bed, so now you have to sleep in it”? President Obama is going to try and insist on pushing through another immigration reform, but we cannot let this happen. He should build on the 1986 immigration reform, add amendments and stop the OVERPOPULATION of this country. Do the calculations yourselves of the trillions of dollars used–OVER THE YEARS–to cater to foreign national workers, their families in education, hospitals and the penal environment.

We must assure that all American workers are gainfully employed, not individuals who have no right to be in our country? It makes me sick to see veterans of Korea, Viet-Nam, the Gulf war walking the streets homeless, while illegal immigrants get gratification from employers and lawmakers. WE NO LONGER CAN SUPPORT ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. OUR COUNTRY IS NEAR BANKRUPTCY. DEMAND E-VERIFY TO CHECK THE IMMIGRATION STATUS FOR EVERY US WORKER, BY CONTACTING YOUR LAWMAKER AT 202-224-3121. VOTERS SHOULD COMMAND NO MORE WEAKENING OF ANY LAWS INCLUDING 1986 (IRCA) IMMIGRATION CONTROL & REFORM ACT. JOIN NUMBERSUSA, JUDICIAL WATCH AND BE STUNNED HOW MILLIONS OF VOICES HAVE MADE AN INCREDULOUS DIFFERENCE.

PS: Illegal Immigrants will get full access to THE PEOPLES health care, if the Democrats pass a path to citizenship or better known as BLANKET AMNESTY. This piece of potential legislation, is not being fully advanced to the public and cloaked until after enactment?

Question

August 31st, 2009
12:33 pm

And yet another — no facts, no details, no specifics on health care reform, only do it because it’s moral, American, fair, etc…

Playing off the focus of the Kennedy funeral on the Gospel of Matthew’s parable of Jesus taking care of “the least of us,” Gore thundered that the country has “a moral duty to pass health care reform. This year.”

Matilda

August 31st, 2009
12:34 pm

AmVet, nicely put at 12:19. And they wonder why they can’t bully us into respecting them.

Bosch

August 31st, 2009
12:34 pm

AmVet,

I concur. Bob Dole was a class act – and I used to think his wife was too, until last fall.

I agree with Dole – Obama’s gonna have to get cracking or he’s gonna lose this. Remember, this is insurance reform, not health care reform.

Jackie

August 31st, 2009
12:34 pm

@Paul

I agree with your premise the Dems should pass the legislation without Repub support. The so-called “blue dogs” and other waffling Dems will have to decide if they are willing to support the legislation or face the wrath of the voters during election.

Their actions are no better than those of the Repubs. That is why it is needed to call them out and make them vote up or down.

Bosch

August 31st, 2009
12:34 pm

Oh, and Dick Cheney’s evil.

Kayaker 71

August 31st, 2009
12:35 pm

Paul,

A lot of shortsighted people who don’t like the message try to kill the messenger. Make him/her look bad, call them a lot of bad names, demonize them but not what they are saying…. Bookman tried that with Cheney and he tries that with most everyone he doesn’t agree with. What is the old saying?…. say it enough times and you start to believe it.

Taxpayer

August 31st, 2009
12:36 pm

Well, clearly, we need to just eliminate lawsuits and do things the old-fashioned conservative way. If a doctor messes you up or if someone sells you something tainted with salmonella or if someone cons you, then tar and feather ‘em. Look at the boon that would be for the oil and poultry industries. And, of course, there would be a need for more rails and there could even be lots of job openings for lynch mobs.

DeKalb Conservative

August 31st, 2009
12:36 pm

Bob Dole is proving why people are leaving the Republican party and branding themselves as “conservatives.” His comments at best reflect a 1.5 party system.

As previously stated the Democrats have the votes, but won’t act. The Republicans have no real vision on this subject short of preaching healthcare savings accounts are some magic solution.

Davo

August 31st, 2009
12:37 pm

All you utopians are aware that Obama has already sold out to the health care giants….right? There is no ‘reform’ here….just a change of management; the course (profit over patients) is the same. Is this what Bookman calls ‘fighting hard for it’, going back on central campaign promises? Who exactly does Obama think he’s fooling when he claims this is for the public good….all this tool has done is prop up the corporations. He’s no better than W.

Bosch

August 31st, 2009
12:39 pm

Kayaker,

“Make him/her look bad, call them a lot of bad names, demonize them but not what they are saying”

You mean like you do everyday here?

Jackie

August 31st, 2009
12:41 pm

@Turd
@I Report

Isn’t it amazing that you are citing numbers from 2003 when the last time the law was updated. Here is evidence from 2009.

WHAT YOU GONNA’ SAY NOW????

Friday, April 10th, 2009

Newt Gingrich recently published an op ed in the Philadelphia Inquirer in which he touted the bounteous effects of tort reform. Tort reform “can jump-start the economy and create new jobs,” Gingrich says. “States that have enacted tort-reform measures have significantly improved access to health care, reduced costs, and strengthened economies.”

If only that were true. But it isn’t.

Gingrich cites Texas tort reform law enacted in 2003, then cites a 2008 study by The Perryman Group that says tort reform has resulted in a half-million new jobs in Texas, an increase in annual personal income of almost $32 billion, “And almost 430,000 previously uninsured Texans now have health insurance.” Wow, that’s great! Those things happened since 2003?

Apparently not. Texans for Lawsuit Reform touts the same study on its site. The study measures results since 1995, not 2003. That’s a bit different.

Governor George W. Bush signed another tort reform act into law in 1995, and when he ran for President in 2000 he called this one of his greatest accomplishments. He made exorbitant claims of the benefits Texans had received from this legislation. But in “Bush Calls Himself Reformer; the Record Shows the Label May Be a Stretch,” published March 20, 2000, Richard A. Oppel and Jim Yardley of the New York Times documented that few of the results Bush claimed for the 1995 law could not be attributed to other causes.

Results from the Perryman Group study showing huge benefits from the 1995 law are widely touted on pro-”tort reform” websites. I couldn’t find the study itself online, however, and cannot comment on its specific findings. I do not know, for example, if the study factors out the general economic expansion of the late 1990s.

But let’s look at what we do know. Gingrich says that since 2003 the cost of physician malpractice insurance in Texas has gone down, and there has been a dramatic increase in the number of physicians moving to Texas. This appears to be true, or at least a number of news stories say it is true.

So this lowered the cost of health care in Texas and made it more accessible, right? Well, no. For several years, Texas has had the highest rate of uninsured citizens in the nation. That rate has continued to rise since 2003, and at times it has risen even faster than the rate of uninsured in the rest of the nation. In 2008, the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation found that Texas health insurance premiums increased by 40 percent from 2001 to 2005, which was the third fastest increase in the nation. So all those physicians moving into Texas may find themselves short of paying patients.

Going back to Newt Gingrich’s op ed — in several places in this piece Gingrich claims that tort reform reduces the rolls of the uninsured and improves access to health care. But the only specific example he gives is Texas, and this is not at all what happened in Texas. The “rolls of the uninsured” have increased. Access to health care is reduced.

I am not saying that “tort reform” caused these things. However, Gingrich is lying when he says “tort reform” will reduce these things. When Gingrich says “If the Pennsylvania legislature were to adopt progressive legal reform, the commonwealth’s taxpayers would save more than $2 billion annually,” one must assume he is pulling these figures out of the same part of his ass where he found lower health care costs in Texas.

Right now, several state legislatures, including Pennsylvania’s, are considering tort reform measures similar to the one enacted in Texas in 2003. And well-financed interests groups are telling legislators about the wonderful “results” they can expect from tort reform. Voters in those states are being sold the same snake oil that Texans were sold in 2003.

What has tort reform accomplished in Texas? Rightly or wrongly, it has made it more difficult for patients to sue for malpractice. And, as I said, it has lowered physicians’ malpractice premiums. However, it has not made medical care safer.

I’ve written elsewhere about how “tort reform” was promoted by Karl Rove as a killer wedge issue beginning in the 1980s. Manufacturing workers were being exposed to asbestos and other toxic substances, and yes, attorneys were doing very well taking manufacturers to court. But the fact remains that those workers suffered real and severe damage — mesothelioma, for example, as well as asbestosis and other extremely serious diseases.

The Right frames this issue as a struggle between noble medical professionals and greedy, money-grubbing trial lawyers, or honest businessmen and greedy customers with trivial complaints. It should be a struggle for the well-being of citizens, period. Oh, and never believe Newt Gingrich. He lies.

Paul

August 31st, 2009
12:42 pm

Jackie 12:34

Some would say the Blue Dogs view the Progressives in much the same way as the Progressives view the Blue Dogs.

They gotta learn how to compromise. That’s what we heard over and over from McCain and Hatch during the memorial – they got half a loaf with Kennedy. When Kennedy rejected a half loaf from Nixon over health care, he lived to regret the decision and changed how he operated.

what the heck

August 31st, 2009
12:44 pm

I have never agreed with anyone on everything. In reading this blog lately, it appears that the 12:13 post agrees with everything this president says or does, just sayin’.

Jackie

August 31st, 2009
12:44 pm

@Scooter

Good luck in your reading my rebuttal to the lies stated put forth. Hope the big words don’t confuse you.

Wyld Byll Hyltnyr

August 31st, 2009
12:46 pm

Wonder if BOBDOLE cut a special deal to keep his viagra under Obamacare. Obama is not smart enough to lead this country. We have learned that he is a dope, propped up with affirmative action credentials, who can read that which the best speechwriters from George Soros can put on a teleprompeter.

Palin/Liz Cheney in 2012 – For the Good of America, This Time the Dark Horse has Merit

AmVet

August 31st, 2009
12:49 pm

Matilda, Liddy was damn good until she became a Republiconned under Tricky Dick.

And then she totally tanked when she became a neo-con under Ronnie.

And then the fatal move – she cozied up to George of the Bungle.

Which ultimately cost her seat in NC, of course.

But hey, it’s all relative! She replaced the biggest loser and redneck in American political history, the despicable Jesse Helms…

Mrs. Godzilla

August 31st, 2009
12:51 pm

what the heck

another new name?

this means all?

just sayin’

Joey

August 31st, 2009
12:53 pm

Help us:
Normal:

I responded to both of you at 12:51 on Jay’s previous post.

Jackie

August 31st, 2009
12:56 pm

@Turd
@I Report
@Scooter

More current data on the 2003 law.
Scooter be sure you read it slowly as it contains words that you may have difficulty with!

21 Aug 2009 10:19 am
Tort Reform Won’t Fix Healthcare?, Ctd

by Patrick Appel

A reader writes:

Tort reform in Texas was supposedly passed to decrease the incentive for people with non-meritous claims to file lawsuits. The real effect however, was to decrease the incentive and the ability of those with meritous claims to file lawsuits. Our courts already have numerous mechanisms in place to dismiss non-meritous cases. There’s motions to dismiss, summary judgments, and the contingency-fee agreement, and judges have the ability to issue directed verdicts. Tort reform isn’t about cheaper health care, it’s about legislating away financial risk to insurers, which exist solely to assume responsibility for that risk.

All the evidence available shows that the liability “crisis” is a myth. Malpractice payments account for less than 1% of the nation’s health care costs each year. Since 1987 medical malpractice insurance costs have risen just 52% despite the fact that medical costs have increased 113%. The size of malpractice damage awards has remained steady since 1991. Adjusted for inflation, the average malpractice payment has actually decreased since then. The number of payments for malpractice judgments of $1 million or more has never exceeded one-half of one percent of the annual total number of malpractice payments dating back to 1991.

The only evidence supporting claims of a liability crisis is anecdotal; hearsay propagated by lies from malpractice insurers who tell doctors their premiums are high because of out-of-control malpractice claims. Yet data (pdf) show that the medical liability system produces rational outcomes. The great irony of the tort reform argument is that if the proponents of tort reform ever went to court to argue their case that frivolous lawsuits have created a liability crisis which threatens our health care system, their case would be thrown out as frivolous.

Proponents of damage caps fabricated a liability crisis in Texas earlier in the decade to push through tort reform. Yet malpractice premiums continued to rise, and didn’t decrease until many of the Texas politicians who had supported tort reform began taking heat and demanded that the malpractice insurers lower their premiums. They’re lower today, yet patients haven’t seen any reduction in health care costs, and there’s no evidence that the rise in costs has been slowed by tort reform. Doctors are still practicing defensive medicine.

Meanwhile, thousands to tens of thousands of Texans with meritous claims are unable to find lawyers to take their cases because it’s no longer financially feasible for the lawyers to do so. If a child dies, there’s no economic damages, and that child’s life is worth $250,000 maximum. If a retired person dies, they’re worth little more. As someone who lost their father to malpractice, I have trouble deciding whether it’s hilarious or infuriating that the “death panel” crowd, who likely all support tort reform, apparently have absolutely no problem legislating the value of someone’s life.

This data is in the study I linked to above:

Only 8.61% of doctors who made two or more malpractice payments were disciplined by their state board.

Only 11.71% of doctors who made three or more malpractice payments were disciplined by their state board.

Only 14.75% of doctors who made four or more malpractice payments were disciplined by their state board.

Only 33.26% of doctors who made 10 or more malpractice payments were disciplined by their state board.

Most doctors are good doctors, but there are enough bad ones out there ruining it for the rest. Only a third of the doctors who are found guilty of malpractice on 10 different occasions are disciplined by their state board? Even cops, notorious for protecting their own, would be shocked by that.

Meanwhile, an estimated 98,000 patients die each year from preventable medical errors and another 99,000 die each year from hospital-acquired infections. Even if only 1/4th of those instances were malpractice, that’s nearly 50,000 people a year that tort reformers would like to deny justice.

Scooter

August 31st, 2009
12:56 pm

Jackie, the big words do confuse me. I still think you are placing the blame on the wrong party.

Jackie

August 31st, 2009
12:59 pm

@Scooter
@Turd
@I Report

WHERE YOU AT????

Jackie

August 31st, 2009
1:03 pm

@Paul

There has to be compromise, if not we are doomed.
We can not sustain health care costs being 40% of our GDP.

Our elected representatives need to ignore the mob mentality and concentrate on the job at hand; get deep in the weeds and root out the problem.

stands for decibels

August 31st, 2009
1:04 pm

Jackie, I think you’re confusing a fairly off-handed remark Scooter’s made about people and their dug-in positions, with any kind of ideological stance Scooter’s made, himself.

Based on what I’ve seen, our Scooter’s been pretty open minded about this topic. might wanna ease off a bit, here.

Joey

August 31st, 2009
1:05 pm

Jay;
You do understand, don’t you, that it is not just most Republicans that oppose the current bills? That some Democrats oppose and that there will be Republicans that give support to whatever the Democrats propose.

If the reform proposed by Democrats was not National Healthcare or nothing, and Democrats would actually entertain Republican concerns, then Republicans and Moderate Democrats would come to the table.

Normal

August 31st, 2009
1:08 pm

Joey, I see I was right all along. You just talk the talk. So be it… I feel sorry for you. I offered my hand…

Wyld Byll Hyltnyr

August 31st, 2009
1:09 pm

Obama is too pig-headed and too much in the pockets of organized labor (crime) to compromise. The Conservatives would accept a simple three point compromise, but Obama, who never let them in the conversation, would budge regardless of the will of the American people.

@@

August 31st, 2009
1:09 pm

I see where jay touched on my man, Cheney, downstairs. Late to the discussion but here’s what Cheney said when asked if he was frustrated with Bush (from the transcript):

WALLACE: There was a story in the Washington Post a couple of weeks ago that in the process of writing your memoir, you have told colleagues about your frustration with President Bush, especially in his, your second term. Is that true?

CHENEY: No.

WALLACE: That story was wrong.

CHENEY: Right.

WALLACE: The report says that you disagreed with the President’s decision to halt water boarding, you agreed with his decision to close the secret prisons, you disagreed with his decision to reach out to Iran and North Korea. Is that true?

CHENEY: Well, we had policy differences, no question about that, but to say that I was disappointed with the President is not the way it ought to be phrased. The fact of the matter is, he encouraged me to give him my view on a whole range of issues. I did.

Sometimes he agreed. Sometimes he did not. That was true from the very beginning of the Administration.

WALLACE: Did you feel that he went soft in the second term?

CHENEY: I wouldn’t say that. I think you are going to have wait and read my book, Chris, for the definitive view.

WALLACE: It sounds like you are going to say something close to that?

CHENEY: I am not going to speculate on it. I am going to write a book that lays out my view of what we did. It will also cover a lot of years before I ever went to work for George Bush.

WALLACE: Will you open up in the book about areas where you disagreed —

CHENEY: Sure.

WALLACE: — with the president?

CHENEY: Sure.

So what you have ^^^ there is a man who can acknowledge differences in opinion while maintaining respect for the individual with whom he disagrees.

When the issue of “a gun and drill” came up, I was expecting Cheney to say….”did they find any bullets in the detainee? Any drill holes? If they had, then we’d have something to discuss. As it is…

CHENEY: I knew about the waterboarding. Not specifically in any one particular case, but as a general policy that we had approved.

The fact of the matter is, the Justice Department reviewed all of those allegations several years ago. They looked at this question of whether or not somebody had an electric drill in an interrogation session. It was never used on the individual, or that they had brought in a weapon, never used on the individual. The judgment was made then that there wasn’t anything there that was improper or illegal with respect to conduct in question…

So he did say it but in a much nicer way than I was hoping for. I was disappointed.

Anyhoo, on this topic, I’ll let Cheney speak once again.

When asked about Holder’s investigation of interrogation techniques, Cheney said:

The president’s the one who bears this responsibility. And for him to say, gee, I didn’t have anything to do with it, especially after he sat in the Oval Office and said this wouldn’t happen, then Holder decides he’s going to do it. So now he’s backed off and is claiming he’s not responsible.

I just, I think he’s trying to duck the responsibility for what’s going on here. And I think it’s wrong.

Should’ve just called Obama what he is……A WUSS!

I’m hearing more and more pundits (some democrats) who are saying the same thing about Obama. He wants to let others do his dirty work while claiming to be above it all.

L-O-S-E-R!

RW-(the original)

August 31st, 2009
1:09 pm

Mrs. G,

I had a 12:13 post too. Maybe they meant mine.

Taxpayer

August 31st, 2009
1:11 pm

Jackie,

You’re gonna make their heads explode and we’ll have to pay to clean up their mess too, just like every compassionate conservative Republican before them.

I Report/ Vast White Wing Conspirator (-: You Whine )-:

August 31st, 2009
1:11 pm

For several years, Texas has had the highest rate of uninsured citizens in the nation. That rate has continued to rise since 2003, and at times it has risen even faster than the rate of uninsured in the rest of the nation.

Gee, I wonder if that has anything to do with illegal aliens, duh?

Take your goony propaganda and run along.

In the last three years, 7,000 doctors have moved to Texas. So many doctors want to practice there that the state has had trouble keeping up with the requests for licenses.

How come the flood? A clampdown on damages in malpractice suits has made Texas a very attractive place to practice medicine, says an opinion piece in the WSJ.

The most significant change is a $250,000 cap on non-economic damages per defendant, such as pain and suffering and loss of companionship. “Before the caps, the average award was $1.21 million; it’s been $880,000 since,” the Dallas Morning News reported last year.-WSJ 2008

# The American Medical Association dropped Texas from its list of states in medical liability crisis (Houston Chronicle, 5/17/05).
# Malpractice claims are down and physician recruitment and retention are up, particularly in high risk specialties (Houston Chronicle, 5/17/05).
# The five largest Texas insurers cut rates, which will save doctors about $50 million, according to the AMA (Houston Chronicle, 5/17/05).

Texas has proven what is possible. Thanks to changes approved by Texas voters in 2003, we now have sensible medical liability laws that have allowed doctors and other health care professionals to spend more time in the examination room and not the courtroom. Because of Texas’ tort reform, our state has more doctors practicing statewide and in historically underserved areas, as well as more specialists in high-risk practice areas.

Consider that Texas licensed 3,621 new doctors in 2008, the highest number of any year on record. The number of obstetricians practicing in rural Texas has grown by 27 percent, post-reform, and some 24 rural Texas counties have added at least one obstetrician, including 12 counties that previously had none. Overall, rural Texas has seen a 31 percent increase in emergency medicine physicians during the past six years. Put simply, reform works. Americans know this.-Austin Business Daily 2009

Jackie

August 31st, 2009
1:16 pm

@Turd
@I Report
@Scooter

Here is a final report that should be able to move you on what you always preach following the Constitution. I think this should be enough for you to digest. I think it will put to rest your misguided and uninformed “talking points.”

Seducing the States With Tort Reform
June 10, 2009, 10:30AM

Among the army of zombie talking points deployed to battle health care reform are canards about “tort reform.” For years the Right and its corporate sponsors forestalled health care reform by blaming rising health care costs on out-of-control malpractice suits. In fact, medical malpractice damage awards are less than one percent of the total cost of U.S. healthcare.

Limiting citizens’ Seventh Amendment rights to file personal injury lawsuits has been a winning issue for the Republican Party since the 1980s. “Tort reform” not only protects big corporations from responsibility and screws the little guy — a win/win right there — but it also turns trial lawyers (who tend to vote for Democrats) into the scapegoats for many of the nation’s ills.

However, in recent years the real fight over “tort reform” has been waged in the states. Well-funded astroturf organizations woo state legislatures with promises of cheaper health care. And through the magic of tort reform, they whisper enticingly, states also can have stimulated economies, lower costs of living and more jobs.

Then the bill is signed by the governor and the astroturf organizations move on, leaving behind laws that cap damage awards even for catastrophic losses and raise the burden of proof a plaintiff must hurdle to file his suit. In some cases people who have suffered real injury find they cannot file suit at all, but must submit to an arbitration system that’s set up to favor the defendant.

Oh, and about those lowered health care costs, stimulated economies and new jobs? More than half of the states have passed tort reform laws, some more than 20 years ago, so we have a number of “laboratories” in which to see what tort reform really does. Let’s take a look.

Fact: Tort reform has not lowered health care costs in a single state.

Limiting malpractice suits usually does lower the cost of medical malpractice insurance, which pleases doctors, but these savings are not passed on to the health care consumer. Tort reform doesn’t appear even slow down the rate at which health care costs are increasing.

In April Newt Gingrich penned an op-ed for the Philadelphia Inquirer in which he claimed tort “States that have enacted tort-reform measures have significantly improved access to health care, reduced costs, and strengthened economies.” As Exhibit A he trotted out a comprehensive tort reform law enacted by Texas in 2003.

The problem with that picture is that health care costs in Texas not only continued to rise after 2003; they rose more than in most of the rest of the country. In 2008, the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation found that Texans enjoyed the third fastest increase in health insurance premiums in the nation. And for many years Texas has led the nation in the percentage of its citizens without health insurance. The 2003 tort reform didn’t change that.

But what about the cost of “defensive medicine”? All those extra tests and procedures doctors do to cover their butts in case they are sued? In a recent survey of physicians in Connecticut, 83 percent of doctors estimated that between 18 percent and 28 percent of tests, procedures, referrals, etc. were ordered as a precaution against malpractice liability.

However, there is no empirical evidence that significant numbers of physicians stop ordering extra stuff after tort laws have been “reformed.” There is evidence that some physicians order extra stuff when such orders increase their revenues. For a must-read analysis, see “Annals of Medicine: The Cost Conundrum” by Atul Gawande in the New Yorker. See also “The Defensive Medicine Myth” from Americans for Insurance Reform.

Fact: Significant numbers of physicians are not dropping out of medicine or moving their practices to “tort reform” states.

The American Association for Justice — yes, a trial lawyers’ association — looked at the recent “Physician Characteristics and Distribution” report from the American Medical Association. The data show no correlation between capping malpractice awards and attracting more doctors to a state. In fact, “Using data from 2007, the analysis concludes that states without caps actually have more doctors per 100,000 (319) than states that set limits (283), a difference of 13%.”

Fact: Tort reform’s ability to stimulate an economy and grow jobs is ambiguous.

Right-wing think tanks have no end of impressive-sounding white papers on the stimulating properties of tort reform. I’ve yet to find one that isn’t number salad, filled mostly with what I call NoMOs — numbers of mysterious origin. If you try to track down where and how these numbers were crunched, usually you hit a dead end.

One frequently cited study is from a small Texas consulting firm called The Perryman Group. It may be a perfectly valid study, but I was unable to find it on the Web or learn how to obtain a copy. Even so, Newt Gingrich cited the Perryman study in his above-linked op ed, where he implied the study showed Texas enjoying a half million new jobs as a result of the tort reform act of 2003. However, the same study is cited on the website of Texans for Lawsuit Reform, which says the study tracks results from a 1995 tort reform law, not the 2003 law.

When he ran for President in 2000, Texas governor George W. Bush called the 1995 tort reform act one of his greatest accomplishments and touted its benefits on the campaign train. But in “Bush Calls Himself Reformer; the Record Shows the Label May Be a Stretch,” published March 20, 2000, Richard A. Oppel and Jim Yardley of the New York Times documented that few of the results Bush claimed for the 1995 law could not be attributed to other causes.

Lawrence Chimerine and Ross Eisenbrey (Economic Policy Institute, May 2005) analyze some of the claims and say there is no evidence the tort system has reduced real wages and caused job loss, or that tort reform will result in more jobs. See also “The Tort Number Crunch.”

Fact: If you want to reduce the cost of insurance, reform insurance companies, not tort.

One of the ways tort reform is supposed to stimulate the economy is by reducing insurance rates, particularly liability insurance. However, the tort system is not the cause of insurance premium increases in recent years. The real reason is that insurance companies have taken a hit in investment income.

Insurance companies make most of their income from investments, not premiums. During a profitable investment cycles, insurance companies underprice their products and take higher-risk customers to get the cash for more investment. When Bu interest rates fall and the stock market plummets, premiums are jacked up, coverage is reduced, and insurance companies try to cover their losses by blaming personal injury litigation.

Fact: The tort system isn’t perfect.

I am not arguing that personal injury law in the U.S. is perfect, or that it is never abused. Further, there are a number of thorny issues that need to be resolved regarding specific types of claims, such as mesothelioma resulting from decades-past asbestos exposure, if the law is going to be fair to both complainants and defendants.

My argument, however, is that before citizens allow state and federal legislatures to reduce their rights to take grievances to court, we all need to clearly understand the arguments being made for tort reform. Most of those arguments are flat-out lies.

Supreme Court nominee Judge Sonia Sotomayor wrote in the Suffolk University Law Review, 1996, that placing arbitrary limits on jury verdicts in personal injury cases “is inconsistent with the premise of the jury system.” Instead, “the focus must be shifted back to monitoring frivolous claims, uncovering pervasive misrepresentation in court and educating the public that no system of justice is perfect.”

RW-(the original)

August 31st, 2009
1:20 pm

Now, Ridge says he did not mean to suggest he was pressured to raise the threat level, and he is not accusing anyone of trying to boost Bush in the polls. “I was never pressured,” Ridge said.

Still want to buy his book?

jokerman

August 31st, 2009
1:21 pm

The Mayo Clinic, the world famous institution cited by all sides in the contentious health care debate, defines schizophrenia as a serious brain disorder “in which reality is interpreted abnormally” resulting in “hallucinations, delusions, and disordered thinking and behavior.” Apparently, that affliction is now running rampant among supporters of the Republican Party. As recent polling about conservative beliefs regarding Medicare, taxes, supposed “death panels,” President Obama’s citizenship and more shows, the crisis of Republican schizophrenia has reached epidemic proportions.

Credits to http://crooksandliars.com/node

jconservative

August 31st, 2009
1:22 pm

So Bob Dole has come full circle on health care. In the 1965 debate on the Medicare bill Bob Dole was one of the leaders in the House fighting to defeat the Johnson bill. And now ” Health-care reform is the vital issue of our time…” What changed? I would suggest that both he & Elizabeth are now on Medicare.

But that suggestion may be small of me. It may well be that Dole recognizes the impending crisis in health care when the 77 million baby boomers retire & go on Medicare.

AmVet

August 31st, 2009
1:23 pm

One of the innumerable “rising stars” in the convulsing GOP?

Republican Bob McDonnell, who earned a master’s degree at Pat Robertson’s Regent University, is seeking the Virginia governorship.

CNN -McDonnell’s newly-discovered 1989 graduate thesis is a “devastating” revelation that threatens to sink the Republican’s campaign for the Virginia governor’s mansion.

The 93-page research paper — first revealed in Sunday’s Washington Post — articulated a Christian conservative worldview that criticized “cohabitators, homosexuals and fornicators” and described working women and feminists “detrimental” to the family.

(In my best Roger Daltrey voice) Meet the new Republicans, same as the old Republicans…

Jackie

August 31st, 2009
1:24 pm

@stands for decibels

If I took Scooters comments wrong, I apologize for my pointed comments toward him. It appears that he was saying that I did not understand what I had said to Paul about the folks in Congress voting on a bill so that we can all see how they voted.

I think this process will clear the air and let us see who is working in the best interest of the citizens.

I am a big supporter of President Obama, but, I think it is time that he stop using “political speak” and lay HIS proposal on the table. In this way, all the chafe is removed from the wheat.

Turd Ferguson

August 31st, 2009
1:26 pm

From some of the rabble I ve seen today there must be many mom’s of Liberals who are very, VERY disappointed in their stupid children.

“Mama’s dont let your babies grow up to be liberals…”

I Report/ Vast White Wing Conspirator (-: You Whine )-:

August 31st, 2009
1:29 pm

In fact, medical malpractice damage awards are less than one percent of the total cost of U.S. healthcare.

Does this lib even understand the argument?

Now add on to that the increased cost of insurance, the added cost of defensive medicine, the reduced level of care because of defensive medicine, etc, etc.

Ask yourself why, if it isn’t that much of a difference then why are all the doctors clammering to practice where tort reforms have been enacted?

It’s like duh.

Let me guess, Jackie, you’re an ambulance chaser, aren’t you?

Scooter

August 31st, 2009
1:32 pm

Jackie, I can’t get HC ins.because of a preexisting condition with the current system we have. I would like nothing better than to have “affordable” HC. I wish I had all the answers to how to make it happen!
DB, thanks.

Joey

August 31st, 2009
1:33 pm

Normal;
You offered your hand??? Right.
I was just a few weeks ago that you made a similar charge about my military service. I responded then giving some details.

Your response to me then was an equally non-appology appology. Hey, but you did thank me for my service.

You need to grow up little boy.

booger

August 31st, 2009
1:35 pm

Once again, the entire discussion is dancing around the key issue. WE CANNOT AFFORD THIS. The congressional budjet office even says this plan will drive up cost rather than cut cost.

I know it’s much more fun to claim conservatives are opposed to this part or that part, or that they are just downright mean people, but if you listen to the actual congressmen and senators, they say we cannot afford this.

Today the government controls almost half of healthcare spending already thru medicare, medicai Schip, and VA. If Obama wants to gain credibility he could begin managing that more carefully and go ahead and pull out that 300-500 billion in savings he he has put in the plan budjet numbers. Were he to do that, he may gain some traction. In the meantime he continues to try and convince a populace that the entire system is broke. 60% of the people However are perfectly happy with their health plan.

stands for decibels

August 31st, 2009
1:36 pm

Whiner, just produce evidence that someone, somewhere, has seen their health insurance premiums drop in exchange for surrendering their civil rights.

If you can, then maybe our President will throw you lot a bone and monkey around a bit with some of the federal code on that topic.

Otherwise, well, you know where you can shove your uncited copy/pastes.

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

August 31st, 2009
1:42 pm

Well, this Dole got it right. I reckon he finally got off of his wife after taking all that Viagra and give some thought to health care. The reason we got all this trouble with health care reform is because Obama won’t get out front and lead.

He could get full support from every Republican if he would just split the diffrence. I want him to get in front of a TV audience and say

1. Nobody touches the insurance co. profits.
2. Insurance cos. decide what doctoring you need and what they’ll pay for.
3. Insurance cos. get to cancel anybody that costs too much money or look like they’re going to cost too much money.
4. Insurance cos. get to decide if they’ll give you a policy or not.
5. Drug cos. get to charge whatever they want because it’s Free Innerprize.
6. If people can’t afford insurance it’s because they’re a bunch of bums that won’t work or save. They can go to a emergency room and take their chances on getting treated.

Come to think of it, we already got all that, so Obama just needs to tell the librul Democrats to back off and stop trying to push these Death Panels and such.

Have a good p.m. everybody.

Mrs. Godzilla

August 31st, 2009
1:48 pm

booger

pick this:

CBO Scores Confirm Deficit Neutrality of Health Insurance Reform Bill

http://speaker.house.gov/blog/?p=1872

then roll with it

Oops

August 31st, 2009
1:49 pm

Aug. 31 (Bloomberg) — Stocks slid worldwide, trimming a sixth straight monthly gain for the Standard & Poor’s 500 Index, as lower metal and oil prices dragged down commodity shares and banks fell on concern their rally outpaced their profit outlook.

China led the global slump as the Shanghai Composite Index tumbled 6.7 percent, the most since June 2008, and entered a bear market. Alcoa Inc., Freeport-McMoRan Copper & Gold Inc. and Exxon Mobil Corp. dropped as copper plunged the most in two months and crude fell below $70 a barrel. Morgan Stanley retreated 2.6 percent after Bank of America Corp. said the shares are expensive.

The S&P 500 lost 1.3 percent to 1,016.11 at 12:50 p.m. in New York. The Dow Jones Industrial Average declined 90.54 points, or 1 percent, to 9,453.66. The MSCI World Index of 23 developed nations slid 1 percent. Eight stocks fell for each that rose on the New York Stock Exchange, the broadest retreat in two weeks.

“China and the U.S. are very economically linked right now,” said Michael Binger, a Minneapolis-based fund manager at Thrivent Asset Management, which oversees about $60 billion. “The stock markets are going to move together.”

Speculation that lending curbs in China will damp growth in the world’s third-largest economy pushed the MSCI Asia Pacific Index to a 0.5 percent retreat. U.S. energy, consumer and raw- material producers fell the most among 10 groups in the S&P 500 today, each losing more than 1.7 percent collectively, as all of the main industries declined.

jasper

August 31st, 2009
1:50 pm

We took our youth group to a nursing home last night and I sat with 3 of the residents there just making small talk. Soon enough one of them asked me what I thought of the health care reform issue, and I waxed on politically and philisophically about how the goverment would make a mess of it and that while I believe improvements are necessary, we have to be careful of whom is in control. One lady just simply mentioned that she had to give up her cable tv because her pills were costing her $300 a month. The other talked about how her insurance will only pay for one therapy session a week but she needs more to actually get better. Then the old man there showed me his walker that was duct-taped in places for stability, and said they won’t replace it until it breaks.

I still wouldn’t vote for a plan that added a single person to the federal payroll, but something’s gotta give. The money is already there, being spent needlessly in other areas. I’d submit that a third of DOD and all of the pork stimulus are potentially a solution to those in critical need.

Scooter

August 31st, 2009
1:51 pm

DB, shame on you! You should know not to mention the Prez and a monkey in the same sentence. :grin:

Cooter Brown

August 31st, 2009
1:52 pm

I think we should deny insurance coverage to anyone who cannot properly pronounce the following words in under 30 seconds: ask, sausage, and red.

Kamchak

August 31st, 2009
1:52 pm

A lot of shortsighted people who don’t like the message try to kill the messenger. Make him/her look bad, call them a lot of bad names, demonize them but not what they are saying….

Good thing you warned us of that possibility, otherwise we might hear phrases like “liberal media” for decades. It might even had gotten to the point where that phrase became a pejorative.

What is the old saying?…. Say it enough times and you start to believe it.

You betcha!

Reform Will Happen

August 31st, 2009
1:52 pm

Premium cost increases based on Kaiser Foundation’s estimate of average premiums in 2008 and on the increase in rates projected by the National Coalition on Health Care

Year Single Family

2009 4,996 13,466
2010 5,305 14,301
2011 5,634 15,188
2012 5,984 16,129
2013 6,355 17,129
2014 6,749 18,191
2015 7,167 19,319
2016 7,611 20,517
2017 8,083 21,789
2018 8,584 23,140
2019 9,117 24,575

The Republican and Blue Dog Solution is to get these premiums higher offering no competition whatsoever. Many of you will see your insurance killed if public option is not passed, and some of you will die as a direct result.

Normal

August 31st, 2009
1:52 pm

I think that annoying little gnat is back…oh well, just ignore it..
it’s not worth swatting… :roll:

Kamchak

August 31st, 2009
1:56 pm

Normal

You mean Denise?

Taxpayer

August 31st, 2009
1:58 pm

McAllen has another distinction, too: it is one of the most expensive health-care markets in the country. Only Miami—which has much higher labor and living costs—spends more per person on health care. In 2006, Medicare spent fifteen thousand dollars per enrollee here, almost twice the national average. The income per capita is twelve thousand dollars. In other words, Medicare spends three thousand dollars more per person here than the average person earns.

And, where is this little town of McAllen. What was that! Texas! You don’t say.

Reform Will Happen

August 31st, 2009
2:01 pm

Whackjob Palin going to Hong Kong to address investors is like the garbageman going to a medical conference to lecture on cutting edge treatment of angina.

One thing for sure–they’ll get their Tina Fey whackjob stream of consciousness English as Language #2 fix on.

From Tbogg:

Former drunken coed Jenna Bush (now) Hager lands a gig on the Today Show which is no big deal and it’s not as if she can be any worse than Morning Joe’s Mika Brzezinski whose job it is to sit next to Scarborough and nod agreeably like a beaten wife who knows better than to say anything when the menfolk are talking. Anyway, Bush Hager will cover education because she’s been a teacher for, like, four years which is longer than Sarah Palin was a Governor and she’s qualified to be Queen of America.

Bush-Hager for Sec. Education under the mythical delusional election of Pres Palin—yeah yeah all you 47th in SAT afficianados.

Believe it

August 31st, 2009
2:03 pm

<a href=”http://www.foxnews.com/video/?playerId=videolandingpage&maven_playlistId=df4b3c7f18eea1b3fb97a8f822a8879495713cb3&maven_referrer=rss&referralPlaylistId=df4b3c7f18eea1b3fb97a8f822a8879495713cb3&referralObject=8890925″Repeal of democrats and their muscle it through tactics is just around the corner.

democrats are standing on death’s doorstep.

Believe it

August 31st, 2009
2:05 pm

Apologies. Let’s try that link again.

Repeal of democrats and their muscle it through tactics is just around the corner.

democrats are standing on death’s doorstep.

Wes

August 31st, 2009
2:09 pm

Jay,

Is there any reason that health care can’t be relegated to the states? It seems to be a fairly divisive issue. Rather than provide a one size fits all solution to 300 million wouldn’t it be more reasonable to provide solutions at smaller increments. Massachusetts has already gone at alone. Throw in the fact that we are probably more capable of talking to our state reps than to our Congressmen, and it seems like a reasonable way to handle things.

Taxpayer

August 31st, 2009
2:12 pm

In fact, the four states with the highest levels of spending—Louisiana, Texas, California, and Florida—were near the bottom of the national rankings on the quality of patient care.

Now, that sounds counter-intuitive, don’t it.

Reform Will Happen

August 31st, 2009
2:13 pm

Believe it

August 31st, 2009
2:03 pm

democrats are standing on death’s doorstep.

We is so skeeerrreeed and ah tremblin’ after you intellectuals done pasted a Clusterfaux Video. Ain’t they the station that said in Sept. 2008 like you did that McSame and Whackjob were a lock for the White House? How’d that prediction go?

Ah knows when ah wants state of the art news ah turns to Faux Noise yesirreeee because it edoocates me to the max after comin’ up in a school system that toggles between 50th and 47th in SAT scores.

Ah so trusts Faux compared to Nate Silver http://www.fivethirtyeight.com ’cause them Faux Airheads they gots da edoocashun in spades.

Taxpayer

August 31st, 2009
2:15 pm

Surely, there’s some good coming from all that extra attention.

In a 2003 study, another Dartmouth team, led by the internist Elliott Fisher, examined the treatment received by a million elderly Americans diagnosed with colon or rectal cancer, a hip fracture, or a heart attack. They found that patients in higher-spending regions received sixty per cent more care than elsewhere. They got more frequent tests and procedures, more visits with specialists, and more frequent admission to hospitals. Yet they did no better than other patients, whether this was measured in terms of survival, their ability to function, or satisfaction with the care they received. If anything, they seemed to do worse.

Then again, I guess not. But, we’re the best?

Taxpayer

August 31st, 2009
2:17 pm

Well, what about our most excellent track record with surgeries?

Complications can arise from hospital stays, medications, procedures, and tests, and when these things are of marginal value the harm can be greater than the benefits. In recent years, we doctors have markedly increased the number of operations we do, for instance. In 2006, doctors performed at least sixty million surgical procedures, one for every five Americans. No other country does anything like as many operations on its citizens. Are we better off for it? No one knows for sure, but it seems highly unlikely. After all, some hundred thousand people die each year from complications of surgery—far more than die in car crashes.

Well, damn. That’s not so good.

Reform Will Happen

August 31st, 2009
2:19 pm

Wes–

Gotta go but the states can’t afford health care for a panoply of reasons, and no healthcare can’t be relegated to the states because viable competition for insurance companies is going to be a national plan and as close to an extension of Medicare as we can get it–with a rememdy for the hemorhhaging Part D pharmaceutical disaster that Repubos who were on the take from Pharma passed with Dr. Frist in 2003. JawJaw, presumably yuor state, had their mental health program placed under federal supervision the way their court system soon will be if they keep denying counsel to murder charged defendants for years.

The states have no constitutional power to regulate Medicare–Congress does. And as to the failed program of Medicaid that the majority of doctors won’t touch, Medicaid in most states like Georgia is going broke because the states including Georgia can’t fund it. Even if it were legal, and it’s not, the states have huge pork barrel diversions of funds like Georgia and state legislators priorities are political–better to build that museum in wherethehellisit South Georgia than to fund health care.

Won’t happen in your lifetime.

Turd Ferguson

August 31st, 2009
2:20 pm

OboboCare will arrive DOA!!!!

Yippeeeee!!!

Mrs. Godzilla

August 31st, 2009
2:20 pm

“”The general handwringing in Washington from the Repubs on the new deficit numbers are the classic response of people like John Boehner who partied too hard in college to ever get to that morning Econ 101 lecture. Paul Krugman straightens him out.”"

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/08/28/road_to_a_2010_democratic_victory/?ref=fpd

let’s review…..wmd, greet us a liberators, wiretaps require warrants,
we do not torture, obama is a socialist muslim, and now…..healthcare
reform will fail……

such a track record!

Reform Will Happen

August 31st, 2009
2:28 pm

Vice President Palin–what’ll she do next? Yippee.

Ah don’t know what Reconciliation be–Yippee.

Mah high school was 49th in SAT mah years–Yippee.

Reality is harsh–Reconciliation needs 51 votes and we got ‘em. We won 257 House seats in 2008, and over 60 House Members won’t pass a bill without public option. Yippee

By the way for all you cram down whiners, Reconciliation was enthusiastically deployed by Reagan and W. Bush repeatedly, and not a peep from you all then, although in defense you don’t know what it is to this minute.

Peadawg

August 31st, 2009
2:28 pm

Mrs. Godzilla: “Chill…..Obama’s got this.”

Perfect response to that is:

Doggone/Ga: “Your say-so doesn’t make it fact.”

Mrs. Godzilla

August 31st, 2009
2:31 pm

Peadawg

Correct a mundo!

but Obama’s still got this.

Turd Ferguson

August 31st, 2009
2:31 pm

Im hearing rumblings about a complete “Blue Dog” revolt! Ruh Roh George.

AHH AHHAHAHAAA!~!~!~!~!

Cooter Brown

August 31st, 2009
2:31 pm

Our backs are up agin’ the wall. Here we got huge deficits, a president who is just plain stupid and an ideologue, and the most liberal congress ever.

To all you liberals, the reason that Obamacare is so unpopular (and a sinkin’ like a rock) is because he cannot explain that it works BECAUSE IT DOES NOT WORK. Obama-care means taxes go up, medical gets rationed for the middle class, and quality goes down. If that dim-ulb Obama could explain why Obama-care works, he would have done it. But to paraphrase Devil Patrick, all we get from the chimp in the White House is “jess lies.”

booger

August 31st, 2009
2:31 pm

Madam Godzilla,

Washington Post July 17, 2009

“Congress’s chief budjet analyst delivered a devestating assessment yesterday of the health care proposals drafted by congressional Democrats………….under questioning by members of the Senate budjet committee, Douglas Elmendorf, director of the nonpartisian Congressional Budjet Office,said bills crafted by House leaders, and the senate health committee, do not propose the sort of fundamental changes necessary to rein in skyrocketing cost of government health care programs, particularly Medicare. On the contrary, Elmendorf said the measures would pile on an expensive new program to covere uninsured.

Mrs. Godzilla

August 31st, 2009
2:32 pm

cooter is satire right?

N.J.

August 31st, 2009
2:32 pm

The one answer that conservatives don’t have for the “death panels” that go along with nationalized medicine is why people live to riper, older ages in places that have it. The United States is down around the levels of Latvia when it comes to various vital record statistics. People live longer in most of Europe, Canada, in the Pacific nations, in New Zealand and Australia. Primary reason is that everyone has a primary care physician that they use regularly. Thats the result of having some form of universal health care. If the existence of death panels were a primary function of universal health care, one would expect to see shorter lifespans. not longer ones.

Cooter Brown

August 31st, 2009
2:34 pm

Godzilla is satire, right?