The use and abuse of racial identity in politics, Atlanta-style
Aaron Turpeau, an Atlanta political activist and strategist, has dropped a little bomb into the middle of the city’s mayoral race in the form of a memo to unknown black leaders in Atlanta. The document, intended to be private, calls on black Atlanta to unite behind a single black candidate to keep the mayor’s office in black hands, allowing the city to pursue what Turpeau calls a “black agenda.”
The memo, which came to light Thursday, makes at least two egregious, offensive and dangerous assumptions:
First, it treats the mayor’s office as a black possession, a trophy of sorts that could be surrendered to white Atlantans for the first time in 35 years. That is a cartoonish, archaic approach to politics that, among other things, ignores the humanity of individual mayoral candidates, with all their strengths and weaknesses, and tries to reduce them to mere representatives of their respective races.
That mindset has had its day, and that day is, or ought to be, over. But as the memo reminds us, it isn’t quite. There are those in the black and white communities who still see opportunity, profit and power in extending that day beyond its normal lifespan, and the Turpeau memo lays out one way it might be done.
In fact, the memo is valuable because it brings to the surface a sentiment that is more widely held among black voters than many local leaders, black and white, would care to publicly acknowledge. Many black voters — older voters in particular — take pride in the idea that Atlanta is a black-run city, and for some that sense of pride would be diminished if a white person were elected to lead it.
While such sentiments are not supposed to be acknowledged, they are real and they have a foundation in history that ought to be respected. Trying to judge them out of context is impossible. When Maynard Jackson was elected mayor in 1973, becoming the first African American elected to lead a major southern city, black Atlantans understandably celebrated that day as a mark of progress for a people whose ambitions and abilities had long been suppressed. The city had given the world its native son, the Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., and in 1968 King had been returned to Atlanta as a martyr. Five years later, that city had elected a black man to lead it, and a natural sense of black ownership developed almost immediately.
They were not alone. Many white voters at the time invested a similar symbolic power in Jackson’s election. They too believed that what was “ours” had become “theirs,” and they abandoned the city as a result.
So how does that play out today, in the Atlanta of 2009?
To some white voters, the cultural memory of repression among black Americans has become an obstacle to progress and racial harmony. Slavery, they note, ended almost 145 years ago and the Civil Rights Act passed back in 1964. “Get over it,” in other words, the past is past.
Well, it’s not so easy as all that. In fact, if someone were to propose, say, pulling down monuments to Confederate soldiers at county courthouses around the state, I suspect that white cultural memories from that era would bubble to the surface pretty quickly and pretty passionately. Old times here are not forgotten, and they still have the power to move people. Let’s not pretend otherwise.
On the other hand, it is equally fatuous to claim, as the memo does, that “if a white candidate were to win the 2009 mayoral race, it would be just as significant in political terms as Maynard Jackson’s victory in 1973.” No, it would not. There would be no comparison whatsoever between the two. Such a claim requires you to believe that opportunities and racial attitudes in Atlanta, in Georgia, and in the United States in 2009 are unchanged since 1973, and they are not. It is impossible to sustain such a ridiculous argument in a day when Barack Obama sits in the Oval Office. Americans can, should and increasingly do judge candidates “not by the color of their skin but by the content of their character,” even if a small number of people, black and white both, are not yet ready to live up to that admonition.
It was also hard to miss the undercurrent of pleasure that the memo’s publication inspired in certain quarters. White voters who had cringed for decades at accusations of racism now had documentary evidence that black people too saw things in terms of us vs. them, and they haven’t been shy about pointing out that fact. Personally, I don’t think you can blame them. It is a very human reaction.
But while we’re on the subject, let’s remember that there was also evidence of that “ours vs. theirs” mindset in the reaction of some white Americans to Obama’s inauguration. It would be unfair and harsh to describe that sentiment as racist, at least in the classic sense of believing that one race is superior to the other. Nor was that attitude in many cases even conscious, instead manifesting itself in such nonsense as the claim that Obama is not an American citizen. It was more about a sense of possession and dispossession, the idea that “they” had won and “we” had lost the most valuable and symbolically important post in the land.
It was, in other words, the mirror image of the sentiment expressed in Turpeau’s memo.
It’s no secret: Invoking racial identification makes voters of all colors easier to manipulate. Tom Watson and George Wallace knew that, as did Richard Nixon and Lee Atwater. So does Turpeau. It can blind voters white and black to the failures of leaders who share their background and to the virtues of those of a different skin tone, and for that reason it is dangerous.
In the Atlanta of 2009, we can do a lot better than that, which leads us to the second major problem with the memo.
The memo states explicitly what it calls “an unstated assumption:”
“… having a black mayor in Atlanta is equal to having a black social, economic and political agenda or at least someone in office who would be sensitive to that agenda if not a full promoter of that agenda.”
With that statement, the memo moves the discussion from the symbolism of race politics to its practical impact. It assumes that only a black leader can help black Atlanta, and by doing so it legitimizes the photographic negative of that argument: Only a white leader can help white Atlanta.
Once that mindset takes hold, we’ve all been cheated, white and black both. Mary Norwood, a white city council member who has worked for years to build relationships across racial, class and geographic lines, might as well abandon the effort. The same can be said for Kasim Reed and Lisa Borders, black candidates who have many enthusiastic supporters among white Atlantans. The argument in the memo attempts to negate that success and reduce us to Shiites vs. Sunnis, tribal loyalties overwhelming all.
To some degree, “the black agenda” is also a code term for economic gain. If the office of mayor moves from black hands to white hands, the argument goes, control of jobs and contracts shifts as well. At one level, the Turpeau memo is a warning to black Atlanta not to let that happen.
It is easy to cast that aspect of the memo in the worst possible light, and some will try to do so. But in practical terms, there is nothing unique or surprising about it. If you’ve ever experienced a county-level election in which one courthouse crowd is challenging the other for control of jobs and contracts, you know how bitter the fight can get without race playing any role whatsoever. Simply put, the winner in politics enjoys the spoils of war. In fact, one of the more remarkable results of the supposed political revolution in Georgia, the shift from Democratic to Republican control, was the fact that the levers of economic power remained in the same hands. Once the smoke cleared, most of the same faces were still in the same places, having exchanged a D for an R, which tells you it really wasn’t a revolution at all.
That faux revolution at the state level was itself inspired in part by sentiments of us vs. them, and I think the fact that nothing has really changed for the better has begun to sink in among many Georgians who supported the change. The state is still beset by a poor education system and for many a stagnant or declining economy, and problems such as transportation and water have gotten noticably worse.
A similar realization is reflected in the Turpeau memo. (For the record, Turpeau claims he didn’t write the memo himself, that it was the product of a group of people, and it does in fact read that way.)
Even after decades of black leadership, the document notes “the persistent poverty in the city, the educational crisis in the schools; the human security/public safety concerns; the type of economic development policies being pursued; and the city’s awful financial management issues.” It acknowledges that “just having a black mayor doesn’t guarantee that African American issues and concerns would be effectively addressed either (as the current administration’s relationship to the African American community clearly demonstrates). In other words, are we simply providing votes without any expectations of the candidate that would enjoy our support?”
That’s a damn fine question, one that crosses racial lines and political boundaries. And the truth is, at the local, state and national level, the emphasis on race-identity politics endorsed in the memo aggravates the very problems the memo outlines. It distracts the attention of voters of all races from the issues that truly matter. At one point the memo’s authors even state that concern explicitly.
“In other words, in 2009 we have arrived at a place in time where we can no longer afford to just look at race in the mayor’s race or individual council races,” it concludes.
So Turpeau and his unknown colleagues get it. They understand the limitations of the politics they endorse, even as they find themselves unable to extricate themselves from it. It is too easy and too tempting, for them and for the rest of us too.
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286 comments Add your comment
I Report/ Read It Quick Before The Angry Censor Strikes (-: You Whine )-:
August 28th, 2009
12:39 pm
Even bigger and more consequential is white guilt, which I suspect is how we got an inexperienced America hating socialist elected to the White House.
Nothing is equal, nothing is fair, everybody is out to get everybody else, grievance mongering, race baiting, until we grow up, what else can we expect?
stands for decibels
August 28th, 2009
12:39 pm
At one point the memo’s authors even state that concern explicitly.
Yes. I share your concern.
Troll Chow! Jay’s givin’ out Troll Chow! Eat up, lads.
stands for decibels
August 28th, 2009
12:49 pm
Ok, that was kinda mean.
It’s a thoughtful piece, Jay, it’s just that you and I and all rational people know it will be surrounded by a swarm of Teh Stoopit within a half-hour. The usual white supremacists wetting themselves at the opportunity to call black folks “racist.”
Feh.
ByteMe
August 28th, 2009
12:50 pm
Jay: Well thought-out.
Yes, it’ll be troll chow for those who want to use it for their own purposes.
But at least it was well thought-out troll chow. Not that the trolls will notice.
Night Train
August 28th, 2009
12:51 pm
Racism is alive and well in Atlanta by people of every color. Sad, but unfortunately, not too surprising.
Jay
August 28th, 2009
12:53 pm
I think your problem is fixed, Reporter, but I’ll keep an eye on it.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
August 28th, 2009
12:53 pm
Well, now Bookman went and done it. You can keep a pan of water over a hot flame only so long before it starts boiling over. And I been boiling over nigh on 50 years now.
Ever notice when one of Those People say “We got to elect a Black person” no one says much about it? One or two people will say, “Oh, she misspoke” or “She didn’t use the right words,” but most people just brush it off and forget it. But let this woman out in Kansas or somewhere say “Republicans need to find the Great White Hope” and it’s like she cracked a loud one in the middle of a prayer in church and messed her pants besides. The networks and papers are all over it. Everybody’s ready to call her a Racist and talk about what a Race problem we got in this country and how Racist the people that oppose this Obama are. If Obama was to say he’s got to lock most Republicans up and some Republicans opposed it, people would say the people opposed to it are Racists. It’s like God hisself spoke and anybody that don’t like what Obama does are Heathens.
Same thing goes in hiring. If a White mayor don’t hire lots of Those People to help run the city, people are all over him for being a Racist. But ever notice how Those People are hiring Those People for just about every important job in a city? They’ll run a national search for a airport manager. There’s hundreds of White people out there with lots of experience running airports. But it seems like every time Atlanta needs a airport manager the person they bring in just happens to be Black and the best qualified to hear them tell it.
And if a White colledge or university don’t hire plenty of Black faculty and appoint lots of Blacks to help run the place, why, the colledge President just about has to come out and lick the floor to apologize for being a Racist. But let a Black colledge go out and look for a new President, and it’s strange how you can make a safe bet this new President will be Black as the Ace of Spades. They’ll run a nationwide search for the “best qualified” person they can get, and the person they get will always be Black. It’s like Harvard or Princeton or Yale just plumb missed out on the guy and are ready to slit their wrists over it.
Anyhow, I’m sick and tired of being discriminated against and I know there’s plenty of good Conservatives out there that are with me. So I say we need to get our guns and meet up and Take Our Country Back. I’m sorry to be ranting like this, but my gorge is filled up and I was about to bust. Have a good p.m. everybody. I sure hope my boss don’t adopt one of them Affirmative Action programs and fire me and put a Black driver in my place.
jconservative
August 28th, 2009
1:00 pm
Yeah I agree. I will contribute to the discussion my post to Cynthia’s column yesterday PM.
Sure it is a racist remark. This is a racist country. My experience is that most other countries are racist also. As individuals most of us try to overcome racism. A lot of us do not succeed. A lot of us do not try.
The Black Leadership Forum letter is a good example. The letter said black control of the political process is more important than effective leadership of the city. That letter could have said that we have examined all the candidates, their experiences, their ability to get things done & based on our study we believe (insert name) is the best qualified candidate to be the next mayor of Atlanta. But that did not happen. It was all about racial politics.
I Report (-: You Whine )-:
August 28th, 2009
1:04 pm
Gracious.
Taxpayer
August 28th, 2009
1:07 pm
Clearly, what we need here is a white mayor, a black governor and a hispanic Lt. Governor. Then, perhaps an Asian AG followed by an Italian… .In other words, what we need are more directions to point fingers than we have fingers. But, whatever we do, we need to stand behind Oxendine for Governor because I hear he’s part injun and that’s good enough for me.
booger
August 28th, 2009
1:09 pm
I do not understand why this memo got so much attention. Shirley Franklin at a national mayors conference said her biggest fear would be that Atlanta elects a white mayor which would undo all the work on diversity of the black admins. John Lewis and Andy Young joined the Mayor in an ad saying a white Fulton Co. commission head would bring back fire hoses and dogs chasing blacks in the street. Even last year an ajc headline posed the question: should black females vote for Hillary because she is a woman, or for Obama because he is black?
What makes those things any less offensive?
Doggone/GA
August 28th, 2009
1:15 pm
“Sure it is a racist remark”
No it isn’t. It is a bigoted remark, not a racist one.
Matilda
August 28th, 2009
1:21 pm
Terrific commentary, Mr. Bookman! As a progressive white woman actually from Atlanta, I’ve always opted to embrace the “city too busy to hate” mantra, knowing full well that not everyone else did. In a discussion of race, a black friend once said to me, “Well YOU don’t know what it’s like growing up in Mississippi!” I said, “You’re right, I don’t. I grew up here, with a black mayor and an acceptance of our [at least partially] integrated community. I dont wan’t to understand the hatred you witnessed.” When I danced and embraced strangers of all colors in downtown Atlanta the night of November 4th, I felt a strong sense of an “us vs. them” victory. Dark-skinned faces reflected the light of a long-sought dream they never thought they’d see, and it was my joy to look upon those faces that night, through my own sense of relief and a lifetime of nagging ancestral guilt unburdened.
The choice to put the race thing in the past is upon each of us. I can only make that choice for me, but I do wish the hold-outs would get with the 21st century already, and let’s all move on together.
AmVet
August 28th, 2009
1:26 pm
“That mindset has had its day, and that day is, or ought to be, over.”
True, and in a perfect nation, George W. Bush and Barack Obama would never darken the doorway of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
But this democratic and representative republic muddles along in spite of itself.
“…even if a small number of people, black and white both, are not yet ready to live up to that admonition.”
Forget hell!
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.shopconfederate.com/images/000_1019.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.shopconfederate.com/index.php%3Fmain_page%3Dproduct_info%26products_id%3D172&usg=__Y_na84N1pG68ZBszL5hilxVLmyE=&h=624&w=1517&sz=209&hl=en&start=1&um=1&tbnid=J3kPJhWl82TPnM:&tbnh=62&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dforget%2Bhell%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DX%26um%3D1
Gale
August 28th, 2009
1:29 pm
The idea that a white mayor would ignore the needs of black citizens is insulting. Atlantans are better than that. Atlanta is a very diverse populations. Yes, blacks may be the majority (I don’t know), but majority is not always best. With all our challenges, we need the best mayor.
Paul
August 28th, 2009
1:29 pm
Nicely-thought analysis. I’m not familiar with the players or the history so I’ll sit back and try to understand from those with first-hand experience.
AmVet
August 28th, 2009
1:29 pm
And yes, matilda, I agree.
An absolutely superb piece, that even the far right wing loonies, “compassionate conservatives” and open minded, “non-bigoted Republicans” here cannot rationally disparage. (As if that has stopped them before!)
And they will anyway…
Bosch
August 28th, 2009
1:31 pm
“and reduce us to Shiites vs. Sunnis, tribal loyalties overwhelming all.”
Alas, sometimes I feel we are already there.
Wyld Byll Hyltnyr
August 28th, 2009
1:34 pm
’ve have been around the coloured since I was a little boy, in fact, my nanny was coloured, so I really have my thumb on the heartbeat of the coloured community. First, the coloured business class support and will vote for Norwood even though they cannot admit it. Borders should not count on any tangible support from the business class.
Next, I love all people of all kinds, whether its the blacks, the jews, the orientals, or the spanish speakers, but it is clear that the author of the letter and the couloured community do not feel the same way about me and my kind. One only need remember the “firehose” radio ad from Lewis, Young, and Franklin to understand that the current memo is not a one-off incident, but, rather, a bigotry against “whitey.” (One, I might add, I believe the President and First Lady embrace, too.) As such, it is easy to see why the people in North Fulton want to become emancipated from the coloured ruling class.
Tancred
August 28th, 2009
1:35 pm
By this morning the story was on the WSJ, and since it is “all about race,” it will likely become fodder for a “national discussion” about our pitiable city. I remember when I moved down here ten years ago I really thought that Atlanta was part of the “New South.” After all, it hosted the Olympics! I also heard this term “World Class City” being thrown around as if it were true. It didn’t take long to find out that Atlanta harbors the worst of both the Old South with it’s neo-Confederates (remember that whole flag thing) and the worst of the New South with mass white flight and black political patronage. It was probably white political patronage back in the day. Either way, our city has crumbled to become a laughing stock for the nation in almost every area. We “could” be a “World Class City” if people really cared about such concepts as civitas or progressive planning, or superior education, or anything Cultural with a capital C. It’s either Tacky McMansions OTP or hordes of black homeless men spitting at you because you say “no” to their demands for money. This recent memo does not give me hope for anything different. I’ve never seen such a messed up culture as here in The ATL, where “Every Day is an Opening Day.” Remember that one? I think that was 15 million down the tubes. You can’t just say things and hope they will be true, you actually have to work at it. Good luck Hotlanta. I’m moving back to Boston.
Denny
August 28th, 2009
1:38 pm
“….and it was my joy to look upon those faces that night, through my own sense of relief and a lifetime of nagging ancestral guilt unburdened.”
I want to be happy for you that your White Guilt is at last unburdened. However, what your write says that you have not successfully pushed that race thing into your past. The struggle continues.
USinUK
August 28th, 2009
1:38 pm
I think Atlanta needs a Canadian mayor. I mean, who doesn’t like the Canadians? they’re friendly, they’re non-confrontational and they’re bad drivers, too, so they’ll fit right in …
… of course, you’ll have to snare one when they’re down in the winter … if you try to lure one in August, they’ll step off the plane at Hartsfield and burst into flame …
Government Control, Baby!!
August 28th, 2009
1:38 pm
Bold article, Jay. Someone speaking the truth about the real political scene in Atlanta. I’m glad a liberal did it because any conservative would be on National News this afternoon for being so racist.
Your first point is staggeringly disturbing on so many fronts.
1. There is a chance for the first time in 25 years that African Americans could lose the Mayoral seat in Atlanta, Georgia, especially if there is a run-off;
It appears that what you are saying is that Blacks could only support Black People. While the numbers definitely agree with you, we just don’t say those sort of things. People that are just narrow minded enough to actually hold African Americans to the same standards that White Americans are held to will crucify you for that kind of talk.
I don’t want to go on, because I am a conservative so my even addressing the points you have brought up will undoubtedly mark me as a life member of the KKK. But I would like to ake one more point:
You support a president that has a guaranteed demographic because of the same sort of selective racism that you discuss in your article. The numbers are constantly changing, but I believe that the most recent numbers say that 96% of African Americans support Obama. If you take away that demographic (which Bush or any Republican has never owned) Obama’s approval ratings drop below 30%. lower than Bush’s rating ever ventured in his worst days, after 8 years of daily attacks by the main stream media.
Needless to say, I would never support ignoring any demographics’ opinion, but your article seems to discredit that opinion of being based on judging a candidate not by the content of their character, but by the color of their skin.
Bosch
August 28th, 2009
1:41 pm
Doggone brought up a good point – people misuse the word rascist. More people (especially here) are bigots – completely intolerable of anyone who is different than themselves.
Ones who blame the imaginary Welfare Queens and not the corporate CEOs for finanacial problems – ones who will “pray for you” because you believe something outside their religious viewpoint, when we all know that “praying for you” is simply code for “well you’re going to hell because you don’t believe in the one true way [whatever that is supposed to mean.]
pat
August 28th, 2009
1:41 pm
You’re a racist.
Wyld Byll Hyltnyr
August 28th, 2009
1:42 pm
Tancred
August 28th, 2009
1:35 pm
Delta’s ready when you are. Please remember to take your same sex partner with you.
USinUK
August 28th, 2009
1:43 pm
sorry, Jay … I’m a’jumpin’ the gun the Friday tunes … (it’s the beginning of a 3-day weekend here and the weather is gorge … )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCvTMqjbT74
no, I don’t like C&W, but this is a kick-butt cover
Government Control, Baby!!
August 28th, 2009
1:50 pm
USinUK
Great Song!!
It’s easy to say that you don’t like C&W. I do it all the time, but in reality, Ray Charles was considered C&W at one time and there are a lot of great covers done by C&W groups.
Are you really in the UK?
Bosch
August 28th, 2009
1:50 pm
USinUK,
OH, I forgot about Dwight Yoakam. I used to wait tables years ago when I was in college and one of his albums was on the jukebox, and he was listen to while we cleaned up and drank.
Tancred
August 28th, 2009
1:51 pm
“Delta’s ready when you are. Please remember to take your same sex partner with you.”
How original. And the presumption of homosexuality is a pitch-perfect example of the cretins that would rather wallow in their own crap rather thn do something to improve their city. As it happens, I do travel to many other cities all the time, that’s why I can compare them to this place and realize there is better.
Bosch
August 28th, 2009
1:52 pm
make that he was FUN to listen to while we cleaned up and drank.
ty webb
August 28th, 2009
1:52 pm
Tancred,
bye!
AmVet
August 28th, 2009
1:55 pm
USinUK, I’ll see your lil’ sis and raise you another!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqU9RZqvFKY
Bud Wiser
August 28th, 2009
1:56 pm
A famous guy in these parts once said this:: “History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people.
I’m not sure if he was foretelling the last election, but it applies to that as much as when he said it.
And who said it you ask?
Probably the same guy that said the following after reading the above article: “I look to a day when people will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character. “
Duh.
3 guesses.
And your hero makes these all look as stupid and classless as they really are.
Anyone wondering why the city infrastructure has collapsed the last 3 decades or so?
USinUK
August 28th, 2009
1:57 pm
GCB –
I am, indeed, in the UK (London, to be precise) – I didn’t know Ray was considered C&W – talk about your fun factoid! Although, I’m sitting here thinking about “I Can’t Stop Loving You” and “You Are My Sunshine” and I’m not sure how I would classify them – I guess by today’s standards, they’d be considered Adult Contemporary …
Bosch –
I bought A Dwight Yoakum album for THIS song – tried to like the rest, but it just didn’t take. And you raise an interesting point … (one that would be another plank in my presidential platform) – National Service. I think EVERYone should be required to wait tables for at least a year. We’d have a much better-behaved going-out public, if you ask me.
Bosch
August 28th, 2009
1:58 pm
Bud Wiser,
And just who are the good people and the bad people?
ty webb
August 28th, 2009
1:58 pm
D-wight is the man.
Reform Will Happen
August 28th, 2009
1:58 pm
How lathered up the white racist trolls become after revelling in a campaign for President that was overtly racist on the part of the repubos. Enjoy the trolls who will rush in. The “white hope” remark by freshman congresswoman Rep. Lynn Jenkins from Kansas a Repubo was a dandy.
“Republicans are struggling right now to find the great white hope,” Jenkins said last week. “I suggest to any of you who are concerned about that, who are Republican, there are some great young Republican minds in Washington.”
Should always be about the best qualified. Melanin content in skin not the issue.
USinUK
August 28th, 2009
1:59 pm
AmVet –
talk about 2 brilliant musicians that were called home WAY too soon … (and, yes, when my time comes, that’s the first thing I plan on asking the Big Man – what the heck was he thinking taking SRV and leaving us with David Lee Roth!!!)
mike
August 28th, 2009
1:59 pm
“It is easy to cast that aspect of the memo in the worst possible light, and some will try to do so. ”
Right, and this is the same guy who took Westmoreland’s off-handed “uppity” remark and made a big stink about it.
Jay’s hypocrisy is only matched by his ideological soul mate, Cynthia Tucker.
mike
August 28th, 2009
2:00 pm
Reform Will Happen –
Thanks for sharing your own intolerance with us and demonstrating that you, like Bookman, are a ridiculous hypocrite.
Bosch
August 28th, 2009
2:01 pm
mike,
You read the Harry Potter books? Do you know what a Dementor is? They are creatures that such the cheeriness and happiness away – I swear everytime I read one of your posts, I feel like I’ve been attacked by a Dementor.
You’re a Debbie Downer dude.
Bosch
August 28th, 2009
2:02 pm
USinUK,
Oh the stories I could tell from those days — never piss off a waiter.
USinUK
August 28th, 2009
2:03 pm
Okay, AmVet – this is for YOU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eD9VZSvRhdg
Bosch
August 28th, 2009
2:03 pm
Whoops – Dementors SUCK the happiness away – not such them away. D’oh!
mike
August 28th, 2009
2:04 pm
Bosch –
“More people (especially here) are bigots – completely intolerable of anyone who is different than themselves.”
You mean like you and your bashing of Christians who don’t share your view of spirituality?
Like many of the “tolerant” liberals here, your idea of tolerance does not extend to tolerating views that you don’t share. Instead, it is a one way street where you insist that others tolerate your views without any reciprocity.
mike
August 28th, 2009
2:05 pm
Bosch –
Wahhh. I guess I should be positive like you.
Thanks for sharing more of your hypocrisy..
USinUK
August 28th, 2009
2:06 pm
Bosch –
“Oh the stories I could tell from those days — never piss off a waiter”
oh, honey. you weren’t the only one who worked your way through school slinging long-necks and burgers…
AmVet
August 28th, 2009
2:06 pm
“…what the heck was he thinking taking SRV and leaving us with David Lee Roth!!!)”
VERY LOL!
I alwasy thought that performance was a real jaw-dropper.
Won’t be able to stay for long, duty calls, so in lieu of tonight here are a couple of other tunes dedicated to the topic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBD4EKoiY_M
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSEgFCFZU-Q
(For the totally irreverent)
Turd Ferguson
August 28th, 2009
2:08 pm
“Atlanta is a black-run city, and for some that sense of pride would be diminished if a white person were elected to lead it.”
Atlanta has been run into the ground by Jackson, Campbell and Shirley-Girl. Now we have this memo. Not surprised one bit. We will see how mature, intelligent and, I hate this word, fair the citizens of Atlanta will be. I fear the status quo will be the victor.
Bosch
August 28th, 2009
2:08 pm
Don’t cry mike, it’s okay.
mike
August 28th, 2009
2:08 pm
Bosch –
Look if you want an echo chamber where everyone shares your very narrow views, go to Daily Kos with the rest of the “tolerant” folks. The fact that you don’t view all of the hate speech of those who share your narrow views as a “downer” demonstrates how mindless partisanship impacts your view of the world.
ty webb
August 28th, 2009
2:08 pm
Ah yes, the old moral equivalency arguement on display yet again.
“Ted Kennedy killed someone= so what, so did laura Bush”
“Black politico writes racial memo= so what, kansas republican made racial comments.
and around and around we go.
Normal
August 28th, 2009
2:09 pm
USinUK
August 28th, 2009
1:38 pm
I think Atlanta needs a Canadian mayor. I mean, who doesn’t like the Canadians? they’re friendly, they’re non-confrontational and they’re bad drivers, too, so they’ll fit right in …
… of course, you’ll have to snare one when they’re down in the winter … if you try to lure one in August, they’ll step off the plane at Hartsfield and burst into flame …
USinUk: My Dad’s family is from Canada, maybe I’ll run for Mayor.
“Normal for Mayor, they call him Normal, but go figure” Hellava slogan, huh?
mike
August 28th, 2009
2:09 pm
Bosch –
Actually, you are the one doing the whining and crying. Is there any bottom to your well of hypocrisy?
Turd Ferguson
August 28th, 2009
2:10 pm
Reform Will Happen
August 28th, 2009
1:58 pm
Regarding the “Great White Hope” comment…I suggest you read Ms Tuckers comments. You can read, correct?
GOP is Gone
August 28th, 2009
2:10 pm
Byll,
Y know you are rather backward in your knowledge of racyal yssues but yn case you have not notyced yet, the term “colored” ys not yn current use wythyn the black communyty you obvyous whytey
Normal
August 28th, 2009
2:11 pm
Mike, bless your heart…
Bosch
August 28th, 2009
2:11 pm
mike,
If I wanted an echo chamber where everyone shares my same world view – do you think I’d blog here everyday?
And I never claimed I wasn’t a hypocritical bigot about some things – we all are – at least I’ll admit it.
mike
August 28th, 2009
2:11 pm
Everyone be careful not to say anything that dares to conflict with Bosch’s views. Anyone who dares to disagree with this hypocrite is a “downer”. LOL
Turd Ferguson
August 28th, 2009
2:12 pm
All these wonderful scholars like Andy Young, John Lewis etc are finally showing their true colors. Those colors were always present yet some couldnt see the forest for the trees.
USinUK
August 28th, 2009
2:12 pm
Normal –
““Normal for Mayor, they call him Normal, but go figure” Hellava slogan, huh?”
well, I think you’ve got a good start here with the 25 or so Bookmaniacs –
mike
August 28th, 2009
2:13 pm
Bosch –
“And I never claimed I wasn’t a hypocritical bigot about some things – we all are – at least I’ll admit it.”
Sure you deny it. Any time I call you out for your Christian bashing, you keep telling me that said bashing is OK because you grew up a Christian. Is there a time previous to this when you admitted your bigotry?
Bosch
August 28th, 2009
2:13 pm
mike@ 2:09
Translation: “I know you are, but what am I”
mike
August 28th, 2009
2:14 pm
Reform Will Happen –
“How lathered up the white racist trolls become after revelling in a campaign for President that was overtly racist on the part of the repubos. ”
Any evidence or anecdotes to back up this hateful demonization?
Bosch
August 28th, 2009
2:14 pm
mike,
Deny what? To be all technical, I still am a Christian – and yes, I’ve admitted my hypocrisy on many occasion.
AmVet
August 28th, 2009
2:16 pm
USinUk, I adore Bonnie Raitt, and have for thirty years.
I’ve notice that mike has developed a new penchant in addition to his time tested old one of proclaiming himself the world’s only “mindful non-partisan”. And that is cutting and running when the heat gets turned up. And then VOILA! Appearing shortly thereafter on a new “mission”, which is of course, the same old “mission”.
Somehow almost magically “forgetting” the last mike-instigated confab.
You can run but mike, but I will not let you hide.
From downstairs:
mike: “I DO believe that the current president in spite of his numerous glaring “short comings” is at least NOT an ill-read, mental lightweight like his predecessor. So, you state that Obama has many shortcomings, yet you excuse that because he isn’t Bush.”
And THAT puerile, inane assertion is the totality of your “argument” that I am making an excuse for “our”side?
AmVet: I voted AGAINST Obama. I’ve only conveyed this to you numerous times.
I have excoriated him repeatedly. I have indicted him on an entire host of issues.
mike, you are so completely invested in this “I am the only non-partisan in blogdom” nonsense that you are more often than not utterly irrational. And oblivious to the realities right in front of your face.
Ask around. I dare say many more than not would agree with me.
But why you constantly beg me, among others, to expose this sophomoric habit is yet another mystery.
PLEASE, do yourself a favor and get one or all of these.
http://www.amazon.com/Logic-Language-Philosophy-Nonfiction-Books/b?ie=UTF8&node=11053
mike
August 28th, 2009
2:16 pm
Bosch –
“Translation: “I know you are, but what am I””
Not really. You are the one who was whining that my comments were “a downer”. I’m not crying about anything. The more actual translation is , “No I am not, but you certainly are.”
USinUK
August 28th, 2009
2:16 pm
Bosch –
“Translation: “I know you are, but what am I””
you think??? I thought it was more of a “I am rubber, you are glue” gambit …
jasper
August 28th, 2009
2:17 pm
Jay, you need to go home and change your shorts. You have equivocated all over yourself. Why couldn’t you just have discussed this from the one angle it deserves, black racism. You had to invoke MLK, slavery, civil rights, and even confederate monuments, to create a backdrop for Turpeau’s stupid remarks. There’s no justification. You say yourself, its 2009 and we can do better. So lets treat this idiot and situation the same way it would be treated if he were white. I just love a parade!
mike
August 28th, 2009
2:18 pm
AmVet –
“And THAT puerile, inane assertion is the totality of your “argument” that I am making an excuse for “our”side?”
Yes. Another great example is that despite the fact that you disgrace your service by calling others “chickenhawks” (if you ever served at all), you always have excuses for why Obama is not a “chickenhawk”.
Turd Ferguson
August 28th, 2009
2:18 pm
I would think the black citizens/voters in Atlanta might be ready for a change as the poor are still the poor, the schools still stink, the kids are churned out with some being almost illiterate. Yet the same groups keep electing the same groups.
Were I a black citizen/voter I would be quite angry at the lack of morals, work ethic and effectiveness of Jackson, Campbell and Shirley-Girl. Then again that stance may be too logical.
Bosch
August 28th, 2009
2:19 pm
mike@ 2:16
Yes, really.
Matilda
August 28th, 2009
2:19 pm
Denny @1:38, You don’t know me. BTW, it’s called a conscience, and yes, I get that not everybody owns one. If you say yours is 100% clear, then you don’t. Everyone has wronged somebody, somewhere, at some time.
mike
August 28th, 2009
2:19 pm
USinUK –
Wow! An empty zinger from USinUK? Didn’t see that coming. LOL
Turd Ferguson
August 28th, 2009
2:21 pm
Funny we dont see Jesse and or Al screaming, boycotting, singing, marching, curseing and wetting themselves over this blatant bigotry.
mike
August 28th, 2009
2:21 pm
Bosch –
“Yes, really.”
Yes what?
R Cagle
August 28th, 2009
2:23 pm
Jay,
Are we supposed to get worked up about this? You know as well as anyone that the only voters who might be influenced by a revelation such as this are whites who (sadly) figure it is pointless to vote at all in local elections.
USinUK
August 28th, 2009
2:24 pm
Bosch and AmVet –
remind you of anyone?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKhEw7nD9C4
I’m just sayin.
Mr. Snarky
August 28th, 2009
2:28 pm
A white mayor won’t ignore the interests of black folks for one reason…they’re a politician and they want to get re-elected. Since Atlanta is majority black, they will pay attention to blacks.
It’s pretty simple if you ask me.
Scooter
August 28th, 2009
2:28 pm
G0d intended for Atlanta to be a “chocolate” city just like New Orleans.
Jay
August 28th, 2009
2:30 pm
Is this really the best you folks can do with a topic like this?
mike
August 28th, 2009
2:31 pm
USinUK –
Yawn. What because I have four angry liberals attacking me at the same time, I am intrinsically losing the argument? LOL
Tell you what, maybe someday you will be capable of having a fact based debate with me and you will be able to say that you beat me. In the meantime, you can share your chuckling over mindless zingers with the rest of the “tolerant” and “intellectual” liberals.
Doggone/GA
August 28th, 2009
2:32 pm
“Is this really the best you folks can do with a topic like this?”
What do you expect us to DO? After someone (you) has decried it, what’s left? None of us wrote it, none of us can recall it. It’s done and all we can do is talk about it…or not.
USinUK
August 28th, 2009
2:34 pm
“Tell you what, maybe someday you will be capable of having a fact based debate with me and you will be able to say that you beat me”
please. the best I ever see from you is either you clutching your pearls or retiring to a fainting couch over some “uncouth” remark or action.
mike
August 28th, 2009
2:34 pm
Jay –
“Is this really the best you folks can do with a topic like this?”
Are you kidding? After you had your glib attacks on Westmoreland for daring to say “uppity”, you have the audacity to question anyone else’s response on this case of true racism?
Can you explain why you think we need to “respect” the viewpoint put forward by this racist memo, but you have no problem smearing a Republican for saying one word that you could twist into a racist remark?
USinUK
August 28th, 2009
2:35 pm
“Is this really the best you folks can do with a topic like this?”
dude. it’s friday. today is the day for discussions about beer, ginormous fried chicken sammiches and music.
mike
August 28th, 2009
2:36 pm
USinUK –
You suffer from a very, very sever case of cognitive dissonence. You see what you want to see.
Turd Ferguson
August 28th, 2009
2:37 pm
“Is this really the best you folks can do with a topic like this?”
Its Friday, Im tired and getting tired of being correct all the time.
USinUK
August 28th, 2009
2:38 pm
TF –
so, my market buddy … feeling good this Friday???
Jay
August 28th, 2009
2:40 pm
Mike, I long ago gave up any hope of explaining anything to you ever….
And that’s just fine, by the way.
Doggone/GA
August 28th, 2009
2:40 pm
Mike…would you like some cheese to go with your multitudinous whines?
stands for decibels
August 28th, 2009
2:41 pm
USinUK @ 1.57, the title of Ray Charles’ breakout 1962 lp might be clue you in a bit…
Water
August 28th, 2009
2:41 pm
Very good article Jay. Best opinion piece I’ve seen in the AJC in awhile.
USinUK
August 28th, 2009
2:42 pm
“You suffer from a very, very sever case of cognitive dissonence. You see what you want to see.”
um. hm. first of all, do you even understand what cognitive dissonance IS??? I’m assuming that, since you can’t spell it, you probably don’t. I’ll give you a hint: it has nothing to do with “seeing what I want to see”
(it’s the conflict of trying to hold 2 conflicting thoughts simultaneously … and, really, when it comes to you, I don’t really HAVE a conflict – you’re pretty 1-dimensional)
Tancred
August 28th, 2009
2:43 pm
Speaking of chicken, I’ve come to call that plaza near the MARTA station (formerly part of Broad St.) as Chicken Bone Plaza, or just “The CBP.” In many other cities a plaza like that adjacent to the major public transport system would be a lively, fun, people-watching kind of place. But it’s become an abandoned eyesore. I see tourists (tourists? seriously?) with their mouths agape as they have their WTF? experience walking through the plaza. I always feel embarrassed for the city, as if it has feelings and all the folks that are supposed to care for it let it down. Whatever mayor is elected, let’s hope they can make that plaza a place where visitors can get at least a small good impression.
Reform Will Happen
August 28th, 2009
2:44 pm
When a repubo calls someone who wants the best qualified regardless of race intolerant, after watching the unemployed Facebook blogger’s comments from her Oprah Watching room and ralleys the opposite is always true. And if I’m associated with any of Jay’s comments or Cynthia’s on race, that’s a great context to be in.
Scooter
August 28th, 2009
2:45 pm
Mike, there are some tolerant bloggers here. ( if you share thier views)
USinUK
August 28th, 2009
2:45 pm
dB –
dang. I guess because I always associate C&W with boots and cowboy hats, I never put Ray into that bucket.
learn something new every ding-dong-day
… so, for you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8o4os6Um6g
saywhat?
August 28th, 2009
2:47 pm
Jasper writes “Jay, you need to go home and change your shorts. You have equivocated all over yourself. Why couldn’t you just have discussed this from the one angle it deserves, black racism. You had to invoke MLK, slavery, civil rights, and even confederate monuments, to create a backdrop for Turpeau’s stupid remarks. There’s no justification. You say yourself, its 2009 and we can do better. So lets treat this idiot and situation the same way it would be treated if he were white. I just love a parade!”
Looking at events in a vacuum is pointless. Context is everything. By providing background, Jay demontrates that he is actually thinking about this letter, and what it says about Atlanta politics, and not just giving a kneejerk reaction like calling it “black racism”. Until all segments of our society learn to value knowledge of facts and history vs pride in ignorance and demagoguery, the more enlightened of us will have to suffer from hearing the valueless spittle flecked rantings of the terminally stupid.
I Report (-: You Whine )-:
August 28th, 2009
2:47 pm
The refusal by ABC and NBC to run a national ad critical of President Obozo’s health care reform plan is raising questions from the group behind the spot — particularly in light of ABC’s health care special aired in prime time last June and hosted at the White House.
Totally in the bag.
mike
August 28th, 2009
2:50 pm
saywhat> –
“By providing background, Jay demontrates that he is actually thinking about this letter, and what it says about Atlanta politics, and not just giving a kneejerk reaction like calling it “black racism”.”
Right. Jay only gives kneejerk reactions like accusing folks of racism when the folks in question are Republicans. See Jay’s reaction to Lynn Westmoreland’s “uppity” comment.
Bosch
August 28th, 2009
2:51 pm
Jay,
I tried earlier, really I did.
To be honest, this whole things sound kind of suspicious to me – the memo. Who wrote it and why? I thought you gave a good analysis of the situation, but the author of the memo is certain to know that it would bring a storm, and that could be the reason behind it – to get race into the mix again, when a majority of us really don’t care about the race of a candidate.
But I thought it was interesting that you brought up this”
“Nor was that attitude in many cases even conscious, ”
As I believe that in many of us our prejudices are subconscious. With the onslaught of information we are able to receive these days – the nefarious amongst us will use their own extreme views to rile up those who are either uncapable of independent thought or unwilling to try.
FrankLeeDarling
August 28th, 2009
2:52 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjVZaZ4o6_4
Black flag has a message for you
Reform Will Happen
August 28th, 2009
2:53 pm
Gotta go but we don’t care if you share our views, we would just like to see you read enough to have informed opinions about anything instead of parr ot what Hannity, Rush, Levine, O’Reilly teach you to say–and what the corporate insurance, pharmaceutical companies pay then to say.
We’d like to see adults who read and think from themselves who don’t look like they are Palin or Katy, Abrams or Joe the Plumber blurting out non-sequitors. It’s a distortion to say anyone cares what you agree to as long as you articulate some view. That’s been scarce on the conservative side here.
If Rush, Hannity, O’Reilly continue to be the RNC’s focal center, history is going to keep repeating itself election after election.
Normal
August 28th, 2009
2:53 pm
Jay, It’s just the subject you picked. There are people on this blog, just like people out in the “Real World” that can’t let it go. Then it gets emotional, then it becomes what it is now, name calling and some only wanting to point a finger and not listen to anothers argument without coloring it into something it isn’t. Race is, and forever will be, a touchy subject and I cannot, for the life of me, figure out why. The Great Spirit of The Cosmos made us different colors to teach us tolerance, then understanding, then acceptance, then respect. The lesson hasn’t been learned. To paraphrase MLK, look to the heart of the person and not the color of his skin. Life is just too short for this kind of BS and everytime this blog turns to race, I am amazed at what I read, especially at this day and age. G-d help us all…just sayin’
Paul
August 28th, 2009
2:54 pm
I go away for a while, return and scroll through to learn something about Atlanta’s past and how it finds itself in this situation. Hoped to find some lessons to be drawn.
Didn’t find it.
Pity.
mike
August 28th, 2009
2:55 pm
Jay –
“Mike, I long ago gave up any hope of explaining anything to you ever….
And that’s just fine, by the way.”
Why don’t you just come out and admit that you have no explanation of why you accused Westmoreland of racism for his “uppity” comment, yet still have the gall to say:
“It was also hard to miss the undercurrent of pleasure that the memo’s publication inspired in certain quarters.”
and
“It is easy to cast that aspect of the memo in the worst possible light, ”
I am not surprised that you make no attempt to defend your hypocrisy. It is indefensible.
Kamchak
August 28th, 2009
2:56 pm
See Jay’s reaction to Lynn Westmoreland’s “uppity” comment.
Do you know that the “uppity” comment is only the first part of a two word phrase?
Bosch
August 28th, 2009
2:56 pm
Paul,
Well….la di da. J/K.
FrankLeeDarling
August 28th, 2009
2:57 pm
The more attention the mayors race gets the better,we have a real chance to talk about what our city needs and where we should be going.
mike
August 28th, 2009
2:57 pm
USinUK –
“um. hm. first of all, do you even understand what cognitive dissonance IS???”
Yes
“I’m assuming that, since you can’t spell it, you probably don’t.”
So I guess Bosch doesn’t know what a “rascist” is, as he mad a typo in typing that as well. (Attacking typos is so lame._
“I’ll give you a hint: it has nothing to do with “seeing what I want to see”
Actually, that is exactly what it is.
“(it’s the conflict of trying to hold 2 conflicting thoughts simultaneously … and, really, when it comes to you, I don’t really HAVE a conflict – you’re pretty 1-dimensional)”
Zinged again! You are quite the debater!
Bosch
August 28th, 2009
2:58 pm
mike,
Don’t you have a puppy to kick? Or a kitten to drown?
Seriously, what’s your point? Okay, we get it – you don’t like Jay’s columns, and think yourself completely intellectually and superior to us all.
mike
August 28th, 2009
3:00 pm
Kamchak –
“Do you know that the “uppity” comment is only the first part of a two word phrase?”
Hmmm. Are you talking about what he actually said? Or what you wish he had said?
Here is what he said:
“Just from what little I’ve seen of her and Mr. Obama, Sen. Obama, they’re a member of an elitist-class individual that thinks that they’re uppity,” Westmoreland said.”
Sorry to let facts get in the way of your argument.
USinUK
August 28th, 2009
3:00 pm
Paul –
2:54 –
criminey, son, it’s FRIDAY … you really expected to find an in-depth, philosophical conversation about bigotry vs. reverse racism on a FRIDAY??? this is a Monday or Tuesday topic
USinUK
August 28th, 2009
3:02 pm
“Actually, that is exactly what it is”
no – it’s trying to resolve 2 conflicting ideas – like loving someone despite knowing that they’re a sheet-wearing racist … it’s not seeing what you want to see, it’s seeing EVERYthing about the person
AmVet
August 28th, 2009
3:02 pm
USinUK, “it’s just a flesh wound!”
I recently saw a Dick Cavet interview of George Harrison in 1971and George said, in my best Scouser accent, “American television, it’s all rubbish isn’t it?” He then went on to exclaim how Monty Python, for example was so much better…
What Mr. Bookman so succinctly said, mike.
For the very last time, my selected definition out of the twelve possible:
Something more than mere support for a war without fighting in it is required to earn the “chicken hawk” label. Chicken-hawkism is the belief that advocating a war from afar is a sign of personal courage and strength, and that opposing a war from afar is a sign of personal cowardice and weakness. A “chicken hawk” is someone who not merely advocates a war, but believes that their advocacy is proof of the courage which those who will actually fight the war in combat require.
But now people will have no excuse for COMPLETELY understanding the challenge/impossibility of having a cogent discussion with you…
mike
August 28th, 2009
3:02 pm
Bosch –
“Don’t you have a puppy to kick? Or a kitten to drown?”
Right. I don’t share your narrow-minded views so I must be a bad person. What other explanation could there be?
“Seriously, what’s your point? Okay, we get it – you don’t like Jay’s columns, and think yourself completely intellectually and superior to us all.”
What is your point? That only people who share your views are allowed to comment? Why is your criticism of me any more valid than my criticism of you or Jay?
I actually have a point: Jay is a hypocrite and this case is a fine example.
Kamchak
August 28th, 2009
3:03 pm
mike
So that is a no to my question?
USinUK
August 28th, 2009
3:03 pm
AmVet -
“what are you going to do? BLEED on me??”
mike
August 28th, 2009
3:06 pm
AmVet –
“Something more than mere support for a war without fighting in it is required to earn the “chicken hawk” label. Chicken-hawkism is the belief that advocating a war from afar is a sign of personal courage and strength, and that opposing a war from afar is a sign of personal cowardice and weakness. A “chicken hawk” is someone who not merely advocates a war, but believes that their advocacy is proof of the courage which those who will actually fight the war in combat require.”
First of all, that is exactly the kind of lame excuse making that I was referring to when we started this discussion.
Second of all, you regularly accuse Republicans of being chicken hawks as a group? How do you know that your little list of criteria apply to these millions of people?
All your “explanation” does is give you a rationale to call people who don’t share your narrow views “chickenhawks” and to give those who do share your views a pass.
Matilda
August 28th, 2009
3:06 pm
AmVet, thanks for that succinct definition.
AmVet
August 28th, 2009
3:09 pm
UsinUk, I ma so glad you found this little slice of on-line heaven.
You make it that much better.
Matilda, thank you.
“All your “explanation” does is give you a rationale…yada yad yada…”
DING! DING! DING!
Paul
August 28th, 2009
3:10 pm
Reform will happen 2:53
As long as we’re off topic (nice try at a save, there, Bosch)
[[and what the corporate insurance, pharmaceutical companies pay then to say.]]
Not too familiar with the current Democratic Party, are you, RWH?
Hey, normal’s comment just popped up. Okay, I’ll add that for all his troubles, Gov Patterson of NY said pretty much his troubles are race-based and Pres Obama’s next. Also tried to bring in Gov Patrick of Massachusetts. Gov Patterson wouldn’t bite and the White House told him back channel to knock it off. Then ex-mayor of NYC Dinkins told him to ‘get off the racist thing.’
It’s just like anything else. Some people get it. Some don’t. Some exploit it. Some won’t. Some assume. Some don’t.
At the national level, I think Pres Obama gets it. His AG, I’m not so sure. As far as “are we simply providing votes without any expectations of the candidate that would enjoy our support?”
I think, nationally, at least, people have lots of expectations when they pull the lever. Touch the screen. Punch the chad. It’s just getting them to later square the reality of the record with the actual actions. That’s the challenge.
mike
August 28th, 2009
3:12 pm
Kamchak –
“So that is a no to my question?”
Well, any number of words could be combined with “uppity” to come up with a two-phrase sentence. Unfortunaetly for your pathetic argument, Westmoreland didn’t use any of them.
You are just making my point more clear. Please continue.
mike
August 28th, 2009
3:14 pm
AmVet –
Nice comeback. LOL.
Keep up the excuses for those who share your views. Like Kamchak, you continue to illustrate my argument.
Bosch
August 28th, 2009
3:16 pm
Paul,
I tried, really I did.
But to elaborate on your 3:10 – I think it’s mostly about those who judge people and those who don’t. I think some people are more apt to do it while others aren’t – and as I said earlier, with the onslaught of the bombardment of information we are able to access now – the nefarious (one I pulled out) of us will manipulate their own hatred and extremism — and let’s be honest, it’s easier to manipulate those who are so quick to judge others that are different.
Paul
August 28th, 2009
3:16 pm
Bosch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFjTJgd2lNI
USinUK 3:00
Do I expect a philosophical discussion on a Friday? Sure I do! I’m the one who puts out the inane music stuff on Mondays and Tuesdays, remember?
’sides which, I didn’t get one with Jay’s Cheney memo so I’m trying to restore some balance to the Force.
Kamchak
August 28th, 2009
3:16 pm
mike
Seriously, where were you born and where did you spend your formative years? I was born on Peachtree Street and lived my entire life in the South.
mike
August 28th, 2009
3:17 pm
Here is Jay’s attack on Westmoreland’s “uppity” comment:
“According to his spokesman, U.S. Rep. Lynn Westmoreland, a Southerner born and bred, had no idea on earth that the word “uppity” had racial connotations when he used it to describe Barack and Michelle Obama.
No idea at all. Could have knocked him over with a feather when someone told him. Really, who knew?”
This is the same guy who writes today ““It is easy to cast that aspect of the memo in the worst possible light.”
That folks, is hypocrisy.
Doggone/GA
August 28th, 2009
3:17 pm
“Like Kamchak, you continue to illustrate my argument.”
“Arguing” is not the same thing as having an “argument”
AmVet
August 28th, 2009
3:17 pm
From above,
WE HAVE A WINNER!!!
Now that at LONG last you have grasped the obvious concept that this is an opinion forum, you lose.
I repeat. You lose.
But the best news of all?
This is the perfect time to bid you a fond adieu, mike.
Troll elsewhere, as I will no longer engage you on this forum going forward.
Considered it being virtually shunned!
For you aural pleasure Bookman blogmates:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2oFESUMWhU
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBFUJX0zIC0
USinUK
August 28th, 2009
3:17 pm
AmVet – stop, you’re making me blush
for you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhe3vb0z7mY
Bosch
August 28th, 2009
3:18 pm
Paul,
I TOLD you yesterday that in regards to Cheney’s memo – we all know he’s evil and there’s nothing more to say on the matter. Weren’t you paying attention?
AmVet
August 28th, 2009
3:18 pm
Have a great weekend all!
mike
August 28th, 2009
3:20 pm
Kamchak –
I could care less about where you were born. Maybe you and your friends are racist and use that word a lot. Don’t make that same assumption of others.
I have a tendency to hold people accountable for what they actually say (or write in a multi-page memo) instead of holding them accountable for what I want them to have said.
Regardless, my point (which you continue to miss) is that Jay is whining that ““It is easy to cast that aspect of the memo in the worst possible light,” when he , like you, is guilty of that same offense.
USinUK
August 28th, 2009
3:20 pm
okay, all my little Dixie Chickens … everybody dance!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OO3ZMdcL8Pc
Paul
August 28th, 2009
3:22 pm
Bosch
Yeah, I was paying attention.
I was gone early on. Suppose I posted a bit too late in the game.
BTW – I like the way these evil guys can donate three-fourths of their yearly income to charity and not even think about penance. Or indulgences. Or karma. Or whatever. Just doing it because it’s the evil thing to do.
Bosch
August 28th, 2009
3:22 pm
Paul,
And here I thought Ringo was talentless. That was fun – but I’ll bet he was stoned.
mike
August 28th, 2009
3:22 pm
AmVet –
“Troll elsewhere, as I will no longer engage you on this forum going forward.”
Do you really mean it this time? Because you have made that claim several times before.
I suppose I will have to find a reason to live other than to be called a chickenhawk. LOL
Paul
August 28th, 2009
3:23 pm
Bosch
Did I say Cheney loves his daughter and supports gay marriage?
Pres Obama loves his daughters but doesn’t support gay marriage.
la de da de da de da de da, la de da, la de da….
mike
August 28th, 2009
3:24 pm
Doggone –
““Arguing” is not the same thing as having an “argument””
And as you illustrate on a daily basis, you mistake lame zingers as arguments.
Paul
August 28th, 2009
3:24 pm
You too, AmVet.
Support those Belgian Trappists!
mike
August 28th, 2009
3:25 pm
Any more angry liberal want to jump on? I am rolling five of you at a time. I could go on with twenty more folks of your caliber.
Bosch
August 28th, 2009
3:25 pm
Paul,
Oh don’t tell me you’ve bought into the “Cheney donates all his money” ticket. Sigh.
Paul
August 28th, 2009
3:25 pm
Bosch
Actually, Ringo and his lovely wife have been clean and sober for quite some time now -
Taxpayer
August 28th, 2009
3:26 pm
I say we blame it all on the Mayans. After all, what else can they do to top ending the world as we know it on a prescribed date and publishing it, in stone, for us all to see. I mean, really. The least they could have done is cast it in sandstone. Something that would not hold up to the test of time.
Paul
August 28th, 2009
3:27 pm
Bosch
Weren’t you paying attention?
Three-fourths is not ‘all.’
Oh, I get it. He donated part but you want all. It’s a liberal thing, right?
radiowxman
August 28th, 2009
3:27 pm
This issue won’t go away as long as people continue to use race as a successful wedge issue.
About 6 years ago, I worked with a bunch of African-American people who lived in Clayton County. They’d often bring their mail to work and leave it on their desks. I remember looking at the flyers of those running for the School board, and thinking it was some of the most racist junk I’ve ever seen. No mention of qualifications, just rhetoric about getting revenge and how it’s “our” turn. We can now see what happens when unqualified people more interested in power and prestige get elected to office.
The city of Atlanta is another example of this. It’s too bad that people use the rhetoric of race to keep their hold on power. It’s too bad they use that power for patronage instead of actually fixing problems and making the hard choices the city’s leadership desperately needs to make. And it’s too bad too many voters don’t want to see (or can’t) they’re being manipulated.
Bosch
August 28th, 2009
3:28 pm
mike,
No, we concede – you win. Now here’s your football – go home.
Paul,
I said NOTHING about their sobriety. Is he still married to Barbara Bach?
mike
August 28th, 2009
3:28 pm
Looks like Webster’s didn’t get the memo that “uppity” is a racist comment:
“1. affecting an attitude of inflated self-esteem; haughty; snobbish.
2. rebelliously self-assertive; not inclined to be tractable or deferential.”
Paul
August 28th, 2009
3:28 pm
Taxpayer
Do you think if we brought back human sacrifice the gods would be appeased and the world would continue?
On the other hand, maybe a clean start’s not such a bad idea…
Doggone/GA
August 28th, 2009
3:29 pm
“Oh, I get it. He donated part but you want all. It’s a liberal thing, right?”
Personally, what I want to know is how do you know if THIS “and not even think about penance” is true or not?
Kamchak
August 28th, 2009
3:29 pm
mike
And you continue to miss my point. Had you been raised in the South you would know that Mr. Westmoreland didn’t have to complete that phrase.
Bosch
August 28th, 2009
3:30 pm
Paul,
Repeat after me: “Dick Cheney is evil.”
Mrs. Godzilla
August 28th, 2009
3:30 pm
mike
would you use the term “uppity” to describe a person of color?
stands for decibels
August 28th, 2009
3:31 pm
mike, this definition’s for you.
Paul
August 28th, 2009
3:31 pm
Bosch
By ‘clean and sober’ I meant drugs, too.
Yup. The lovely Barbara.
Met on the set of that classic, Caveman.
Also starring Shelly Long, Dennis Quaid and a bunch of other names -
mike
August 28th, 2009
3:31 pm
Bosch –
I’ll tell you what. You can choose when and where you will post here and I will do likewise.
Not that you would be intellectually honest enough to admit it, but it was USinUK who introduced the notion of winning and losing the argument with his Black Knight clip, to which you chortled.
Why don’t you take a moment, get some tissues to clean up your tears, and if you don’t want to talk with me then don’t. Trust me, I find your comments as obnoxious as you find mine. Particularly when you go on a Christian bashing streak.
Gale
August 28th, 2009
3:33 pm
Just my two cents, but I more often hear “uppity” as a description of women in power.
Paul
August 28th, 2009
3:34 pm
Doggone/GA
[[Personally, what I want to know is how do you know if THIS “and not even think about penance” is true or not?]]
To quote USinUK: it’s Friday. Lighten up.
Bosch
Did you know if you say “Dick Cheney is evil” into a recorder and play it backwards, it comes out “live si yenehc kcid”?
stands for decibels
August 28th, 2009
3:35 pm
When I first heard this ditty from the Clash, ages ago, I thought it kind of clever but possibly prone to misinterpretation.
Nowadays, I figure many of the righties take it at face value.
Anyhow, for some reason this comments thread had me thinking of it.
mike
August 28th, 2009
3:35 pm
stands for decibels –
Ah yes, the Urban Dictionary. Why should I be surprised that you are a fan of this mountain of profanity and hatred?
Regardless, it is Jay making the excuses here. Not me.
Mrs G –
“would you use the term “uppity” to describe a person of color?”
No more or less so than I would use the term to describe a white person. I don’t have different adjectives for folks of different races, as I am not a racist.
The Nerve
August 28th, 2009
3:36 pm
Replace the words black and white in this memo with Republican and Democarat and stuff like this is emailed around the country in and out of politicians offices every single day. What’s the difference here except skin color? I think the Sunni vs Shiite reference is a very good one. R’s vs D’s. And it is destroying this country.
Bosch
August 28th, 2009
3:36 pm
Okay mike, I was just trying to tell you that you “won” – you are SO much more intellectually and morally honest than anyone EVER.
Paul,
Now, Caveman is one I’ve missed. Dennis Quaid? Are you serious? AND, I didn’t say anything about their sobriety – I wrote that I was pleasantly surprised to see him exhibit some talent.
redneck recluse
August 28th, 2009
3:37 pm
cognitive dissonence. Cognitive dissonence? Cognitive dissonence?
say is that the green stuff that grows between you toes when you don’t change your socks?
stands for decibels
August 28th, 2009
3:38 pm
I am not a racist.
Nope, that’s a term you seem to reserve for black folks.
Mrs. Godzilla
August 28th, 2009
3:39 pm
Mike
You said:
Mrs G –
“would you use the term “uppity” to describe a person of color?”
No more or less so than I would use the term to describe a white person. I don’t have different adjectives for folks of different races, as I am not a racist.
EVEN after learning that people of color find it offensive you would still use that term?
USinUK
August 28th, 2009
3:40 pm
so, to recap:
AmVet shot down mike’s little chickenhawk whinge
I shot down mike’s foray into psychology
bosch shot down mike’s little game of “I’m sooooo much smaaaaaahter than youse”
doggone has proven that mike can’t acknowledge the connotation (not denotation) of the word “uppity”
but mike’s take: “I am rolling five of you at a time. I could go on with twenty more folks of your caliber.”
all I can say is that I wonder what color the sky is on planet mike.
and with that … it’s suppahtime …
ya’ll have a good time … and be nice to mikey – the delusional are very fragile …
Mrs. Godzilla
August 28th, 2009
3:41 pm
Paul
Caveman!!!!
carrying the giant fried egg……
I saw that with my late mom – wonderfully prudish Irishwoman -
laughed so hard at the silly slapstick she had tears in her eyes.
didn’t they argue over what to call caca?
Bosch
August 28th, 2009
3:42 pm
Paul,
“Did you know if you say “Dick Cheney is evil” into a recorder and play it backwards, it comes out “live si yenehc kcid”?”
Why, yes, I did know that. I know Dick Cheney is evil in every way possible.
sfd,
A classic.
mike
August 28th, 2009
3:43 pm
Mrs. Godzilla –
“EVEN after learning that people of color find it offensive you would still use that term?”
Well frankly, I think it is a term that anyone would be offended by, regardless of color. It has a negative connotation.
On the other hand, I know that being accused of racism is offensive to everyone.
mike
August 28th, 2009
3:43 pm
USinUK –
Zinged again! You are quite the debater!
Paul
August 28th, 2009
3:44 pm
Bosch
Got it with the sobriety stuff. I think.
You gotta get Caveman. Netflix or in the closeout bin at the market. Absolutely hilarious. It even has sections on cavemen learning English. From the smart caveman. Who’s Oriental. Hey, we are dealing with stereotypes, here!
GreenJeans
August 28th, 2009
3:46 pm
Juicy.
Fake or not, the memo linked here is surely no worse than what has been created elsewhere to encourage power consolidation for white folks. Or Hispanic. Or fill in the blank.
There are no leaders today…no one who has the vision and the platform to move hearts through trust. There is a great scene in a movie playing somewere in my memory, where a young man has just been gay bashed in the Australian outback. His friend tells him something to the affect of “I’m not sure why they build the city walls – to keep them out, or to keep us in.”
When I ponder that concept, I can apply it to racism, religion, politics…we all have the same destination, yet argue over the journey. Unfortunately, the ones who have moved beyond racism (as much as humanly possible) have also moved beyond the squabbling.
Those are the voices missing in the national dialogue.
Mrs. Godzilla
August 28th, 2009
3:46 pm
Mike
You did not answer my question.
Would you use that term talking with or to a person of color knowing they’d probably be offended?
stands for decibels
August 28th, 2009
3:46 pm
Seconding Paul’s Caveman rec @ 3.44
Of course, I saw it on the big screen. Maybe it hasn’t held up well.
Naw, can’t be–I still remember the scene he described.
literally rock-stupid comedy, but funny as hell.
FrankLeeDarling
August 28th, 2009
3:48 pm
A new take on classic rock kinda neil young ish
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lgo9VXY8PCc
mike
August 28th, 2009
3:48 pm
stands for decibels –
“Nope, that’s a term you seem to reserve for black folks.”
This is a silly lie. I never said, implied, or believed that “black folks” are racist. I sure think that the folks who wrote this memo are. Nor because they are black, but for their rhetoric.
You on the other hand, regularly accuse large groups of being racist, not for their words or deeds, but for their political affiliation. That is bigotry and that is what you do.
Paul
August 28th, 2009
3:48 pm
Mrs. Godzilla
It was the Oriental caveman who settle it. One caveman looked at the pile and said doo doo. Another one said caca. Then Nook said s$!t.
I like the transition scenes where it’s night, there’s a cliff, a dinosaur wanders out onto it and howls like a coyote at the moon.
Paul
August 28th, 2009
3:50 pm
Bosch
I was wondering what retort you’d come up with for the recorder. Or even if.
Niiiice.
SD
It holds up great. Friday night’s the perfect time for the DVD>
El Jefe
August 28th, 2009
3:50 pm
To quote a semi-famous person, Aaron Turpeau acted stupidly.
Notice where the racism comes from, not from conservative voices, not from academia, not from the unemployment office, not from the layed off white collar folks, but a political activist. An advisor, a consultant. Aaron, you screwed up.
mike
August 28th, 2009
3:52 pm
Mrs G –
“Would you use that term talking with or to a person of color knowing they’d probably be offended?”
I don’t apply the term to anyone, as that would imply that I think that I have more of a right to my opinion and standing than they do to theirs, so as I said, “no more or less so than I would use the term to describe a white person.”
Now being accused of being a racist is offensive to everyone, but that doesn’t stop you from accusing the entire Republican party of being racist.
Bosch
August 28th, 2009
3:52 pm
Paul,
“Bosch
I was wondering what retort you’d come up with for the recorder. Or even if.
Niiiice.
THAT’s because I know Dick Cheney is evil!
Dinosaurs howling at the moon? Damn. I might have to get my bong out and give it a try.
Bosch
August 28th, 2009
3:55 pm
El Jefe,
But did Aaron Turpeau write the letter? Who did? Did I misunderstand something?
As with anything – it’s all about context and who the letter is intended for. Is that clear in this case?
josef nix
August 28th, 2009
3:55 pm
BOSCH–go right now and get Caveman! Got my own copy. I use it in my Introduction to Linguistics class…
Tancred
August 28th, 2009
3:59 pm
“I was born on Peachtree Street and lived my entire life in the South.”
You actually chose to live your entire life in the South?
That reminds me of the time I was doing some research in a small town near Muscle Shoals, AL. Me and some other Yankees were hanging out down near a fountain in the ceter of town, and we came upon some kids just hanging out. The asked me where I was from. At the time I was living in Chicago. I said: “I’m from Chicago.” The kid said “Is that as big as Birmingham?” Some folks just have no curiousity to see some other parts of the world.
El Jefe
August 28th, 2009
4:00 pm
Bosch,
Yea, he did, Jay said it was his memo, I guess it is Aaron’s responsibility. If Norwood’s consultant had sent some thing like that – there would be riots.
“Aaron Turpeau, an Atlanta political activist and strategist, has dropped a little bomb into the middle of the city’s mayoral race in the form of a memo to unknown black leaders in Atlanta. The document, intended to be private, calls on black Atlanta to unite behind a single black candidate to keep the mayor’s office in black hands, allowing the city to pursue what Turpeau calls a “black agenda.” “
Paul
August 28th, 2009
4:00 pm
Bosch 3:52
Go for it!
Hi josef!
Sounds like a fun class!
stands for decibels
August 28th, 2009
4:00 pm
I never said, implied, or believed that “black folks” are racist.
Who said you did? I said you reserve that term for black folks. Reading is fun-duh-mental.
You on the other hand, regularly accuse large groups of being racist, not for their words or deeds, but for their political affiliation.
Really? go ahead and cite a case where I’ve done that.
mike
August 28th, 2009
4:03 pm
El Jefe –
Actually Jay said:
“(For the record, Turpeau claims he didn’t write the memo himself, that it was the product of a group of people, and it does in fact read that way.)”
It is actually worse if it was the product of a group. If it was Turpeau , it could be written off as a “Jerry Maguire ” moment instead of an official position of a group.
Bosch
August 28th, 2009
4:06 pm
El Jefe,
Read this from the AJC article today:’
“The controversy started this week when the memo penned by a group called the Black Leadership Forum started making its way around the city through e-mail. Aaron Turpeau, a longtime political insider and consultant, is the only member of the group who has been identified. He has acknowledged the memo — which he said is part of the group’s efforts to establish a “black agenda” — but denies writing it.
The document, which Turpeau calls a “white paper,” contains facts about the election campaign, but makes it clear that the city would be better off with a black mayor. ”
Anywho – not denying that Turpeau didn’t act stupidly, but the whole thing just sounds like of weird.
mike
August 28th, 2009
4:06 pm
sfd –
“I said you reserve that term for black folks”
There are plenty of white racists too. Happy?
“Really? go ahead and cite a case where I’ve done that.”
How bout this:
“The usual white supremacists wetting themselves at the opportunity to call black folks “racist.”
Can you please tell me who the “usual white supremacists” are on this blog and provide some backup for why you would call them that other than their political views?
Dusty
August 28th, 2009
4:07 pm
Aww now let me think….
Bosch, I think I almost agree with you back about 50 comments. This political memo was , as you said, suspicious! Not only that, it was JUNK Mail of the worse kind.
Why in the world did Bookman write long long paragraphs about such trash is a mystery.. Just print the memo and we all know exatly what it was. Tripe to stir animosity! Don’t we have enough of that from all sides without helping to spread it.? Oh well, what’s a political blog if not for “stirring ‘em up”?
Down with all junk mail from bigots. ALL of it unless it is for electing NORMAL (who is a purple polka dot ) as mayor. He is not a bigot. Just a little “dotty”.
Now lay off of Mike. He does have some points just like you do. He’s not good at telling jokes but you might consider what he says. We have RedNeck for jokes or whatever you want to call his fabrications.(I think he is actually from Buffalo, NY.)
USinUK, please please don’t drag us in to the Friday screech music division yet.. It is early. I am almost ready, earplugs handy, kleenex, cough drops, and my stringless ukelele. I try to participate.
But I will be honest. The Olympics in Atlanta were a disaster. We had pickup trucks and wind ballloons. The Chinese had thousands performing to perfection. So you see, I have a bone to pick about Atlanta EXCEPT we have great winners. THE BRAVES! We are going to win another one tonight!! (Bookman, please tell everybody here to behave like the Braves and they too will be WINNERS!)
Uh oh. I got off subject. Whoops. Do I hear music? What is that howling?
josef nix
August 28th, 2009
4:07 pm
All right, I left here this a.m. and told y’all to be nice and I come back and you’re squabbling like a bunch of kindergartners shut in on a rainy day…
To the topic at hand, why should anyone be surprized? As Angry Black Man and I were discussing last night, black and white, when it comes to human nature, are distinguished one from the other only by degree of melanin and hair texture.
I recall back in the late sixities when the newly enfranchised population of my home county elected a slate of black candidates who quickly created a fracas doling out favors and conducting questionable back room deals. Some of the local whites took Mama to task, “see there Jeanne-Marie, you said give them the vote and you’ll see they do as good a job as us. Well?” “Well?” Mama answered, “I said they’d prove themselves ‘our’ equals. They have. Equality? Ain’t it grand.”
Kamchak
August 28th, 2009
4:07 pm
You actually chose to live your entire life in the South?
If I had my ‘druthers, I’d ‘druther be in San Jose.
josef nix
August 28th, 2009
4:10 pm
Tancred–you, sir or madame, are a cretin and some other place is welcome to your presence. We have enough of our own down in Uncle Sam’s Oldest Colony without importing more.
josef nix
August 28th, 2009
4:11 pm
Kamchak–San Jose. California or Costa Rica. As you know, my provencia,l inferior, shoeless self prefers the latter, but I DO know the way to the former. Let’s see where this one winds up!
Tancred
August 28th, 2009
4:12 pm
“I’d ‘druther be in San Jose.”
But do you know the way to San Jose? Dionne Warwick worked with Burt Bachrach to make that song. Now there is a good example of ebony and ivory living in perfect harmony.
Bookman says it well on odious “black agenda” memo | Cynthia Tucker
August 28th, 2009
4:14 pm
[...] To those of you who were wondering whether I was going to comment on the “black agenda” memo that has created a huge controversy in the Atlanta mayor’s race, I defer to my colleague Jay Bookman, who has written a brilliant post on the subject. I agree with every thing Bookman says. [...]
stands for decibels
August 28th, 2009
4:14 pm
Can you please tell me who the “usual white supremacists” are on this blog
Sure. Bud, who routinely refers to blacks as “94%ers”. Wyld for obvious reasons (although he’s probably just a parody of a clueless old racist fool, he plays it very, very well.). And there are some namestealers who post rubbish as well, too lazy to look ‘em up.
That said, I don’t know how that amounts to “accus[ing] large groups of being racist, not for their words or deeds, but for their political affiliation.”
That sounded to me like you were claiming I thought Republicans were racist. I don’t go around flinging that term willy-nilly, and I certainly don’t consider the RNC to be a white supremacist organization.
Later, all.
Kamchak
August 28th, 2009
4:17 pm
josef
California. The best place to be in August—mid seventies during the day, mid fifties at night, a great weekend Jazz-fest spanning the downtown area, and an MLS franchise.
Dusty
August 28th, 2009
4:19 pm
JOSEF, whatcha talking ’bout @ 3:55?
As to your message to Tancredo: DITTO!
Bud Wiser
August 28th, 2009
4:19 pm
Tancred, don’t let the door hit you in the a$$ when you leave.
josef nix
August 28th, 2009
4:20 pm
Rather fond of it myself. One of my brothers lived there while I was up in the Northwest, got a chance to go down from time to time. Still prefer Costa Rica, though.
josef nix
August 28th, 2009
4:25 pm
DUSTY–the movie “Caveman.” The script writers created a language for their cave people and it confroms to the basic linguistic principals of grammar-lexicology-syntax in language structure.
I’m for the purple-polka dot candidate, too! Think we can convince Normal to toss in his chapeau?
thomas
August 28th, 2009
4:33 pm
Mrs. Godzilla,
why should there be any words in the english language that are ok to say around a certain race?
Sorry maybe it is just that I did not grow up in a racist, bigotry filled society as you did. However, in my generation most would claim that the NON-DISCRIMINATORY thing to do would be use all words you see fit in front of all.
Me personally I have been called uppity. I’V called my friends uppity. (GASP some were black OHNO)
My understanding and that of most others who do not see a need to introduce race into EVERYTHING, is that Uppity is a state of mind not a color.
Also Mrs. Godzilla, could you or someone else please compose a list of words in commonly used in the english language which have now been found by someone to be offensive?
I would like to eliminate all uses of the word cracker, even the food as it is offensive to me. And shock Mrs. godzilla people use cracker around me everyday, regardless of my feelings.
Jay, please explain to me how it is more racist, or worse to call a person uppity, than for a memo to be sent out expressly stating to keep a single race in power?
The only reason I could come up with is you feel that its more appropriate to flat out say something ethnocentric/racist, than to use a word that COULD be seen as racist.
I for some strange reason was shocked to see this is what you wrote after your obvious anger and displeasure with the Uppity comment.
Dusty
August 28th, 2009
4:36 pm
Thank you, JOSEF,
Never a day goes by that I don’t worry about my basic linguistic principals of grammar-lexicology-syntax. What’s a girl to do without it much less a caveman!
Yes, yes, we must convince NORMAL to run for the office of mayor. Just tell him not to write any memos until we get there, what with sintax and all..
Normal
August 28th, 2009
4:38 pm
Y’all, Salsa upstairs…DUSTY, I can’t run for office…I inhaled! Many times!!
josef nix
August 28th, 2009
4:39 pm
Tancred…
“That reminds me of the time I was doing some research in a small town near Muscle Shoals, AL. Me and some other Yankees were hanging out down near a fountain in the ceter of town, and we came upon some kids just hanging out. The asked me where I was from. At the time I was living in Chicago. I said: “I’m from Chicago.” The kid said “Is that as big as Birmingham?” Some folks just have no curiousity to see some other parts of the world.”
You should have answered the question.”It’s bigger than Birmingham. The city of Chicago has about 2,800,000 people. The city of Birmingham has about 250,000. That means Chicago is about 12 times the size of Birmingham. Think of it this way. If I were Birmingham and y’all were Chicago, that means there would be 12 of y’all.”
Curiosity? Didn’t they show more curiosity about you and where you were from than you did them.
Kamchak
August 28th, 2009
4:42 pm
thomas
“uppity” is the first word of a two word phrase. I cannot repeat the second word, as it would put my comment in moderation. Suffice it to say, that two word phrase has been oft repeated to the point where I am amazed that anyone born in the South has not been exposed to it. That is why I made a point of asking mike where he spent his formative years. The thrust of Jay’s criticism of Mr. Westmoreland is that he (Westmoreland) WAS born and raised in the South, and should have known the ramifications of uttering even one-half of that offensive phrase.
josef nix
August 28th, 2009
4:44 pm
NORMAL–oh, yes, you can! You can even become a Fierce Advocate!
DUSTY–reckon maybe me and you ought to go off on some quotes from our favorites so’s Tancred might feel more at home…? I’ll start…”Tom’s a fool!”
josef nix
August 28th, 2009
4:47 pm
Kamchak–uppity is an adjective. I’ve been called it more than once and it wasn’t used to modify that noun..I’ve been called an uppity Jew, an uppity f**got, an uppity white boy, an uppity snob, an uppity Creole, an uppity Sephard….and the list just goes on and on…I want to keep the word myself as, well what else can I call Tancred but an uppity Yankee!
Bob
August 28th, 2009
4:53 pm
Matilda, I thought I read that you lived out in North Fulton with all of the uber priveliged ? You tell your friends you live in Atlanta so you can claim the progressive Label ?
Matilda
August 28th, 2009
4:54 pm
Josef, nice response to the yankee. I also wondered why he chose to make a generalization about people who had not yet had the opportunity to travel, as he had, and why he didn’t engage them thusly.
Kamchak
August 28th, 2009
4:55 pm
Yes josef i know what part of speech “uppity” is, but you have less to lose when you employ that adjective. A middle-aged white politician from the South using it to describe a man of color should understand the political fallout in using that word.
Matilda
August 28th, 2009
4:56 pm
Bob, I grew up in Atlanta. I purchased a home in an older, modest N. Fulton neighborhood near my job and some good schools. IS THAT A PROBLEM FOR YOU?
md
August 28th, 2009
5:02 pm
For what its worth, I was raised in the south and “uppity” was used for the snobs living in Marietta (at the time).
As for the memo, race issues will never go away until the labels are gone. The fact that the memo was distrisbuted by the “Atlanta Black Leadership Forum” says it all. Not the Asian leadership forum or the Latino leadership forum or even the Moonbat leadership forum. Until it becomes the Atlanta Leadership Forum”, the issues will not go away.
We are a country divided by the selfishness of labeling. There is nothing wrong with knowing ones heritage, but we are all Americans – not african-american, irish-american, italian-american, etc. Those labels can only be claimed my immigrants of the 1st generation – if one is born in this country, they are Americans – period.
josef nix
August 28th, 2009
5:14 pm
Matilda–thank you. It has been my experience that those who come off with such attitudes as Tancred are those who feel they have “clawed” their way to where they are and still nurse a sense of inferiority which they salve by casting dispersion on “those people,” whoever those people may be.
It might be noted that Immanuel Kant never left Koenigsberg.
Kamchak–I agree. This is why it’s ever so important to put the noun there.
josef nix
August 28th, 2009
5:16 pm
Tancred–as Sienkiewicz might say, quo vadis?
Eddy
August 28th, 2009
5:17 pm
So Atlanta must have a black mayor to further the black agenda….someone please do an accounting on the black agenda so far: education and graduation rates by race, crime statistics by race, corruption at City Hall defined as being convicted by race, etc. If the idiots want to discuss race and the absolute requirement to have a black mayor then let’s recap the accomplishments so far over however many decades starting with Maynard and compare each mayor’s stats with the last white mayor’s. It is safer in Bagdad than it is in Atlanta…just watch the local news…..WSB.
And to highlight the racists and bigots….the Black Leadership Council, the Congressional Black Caucus, the NAACP……now suppose we create the equivalent white, Hispanic and Asian organizations. Maybe there would be parity at last.
Kamchak
August 28th, 2009
5:26 pm
josef
My point is Westmoreland didn’t have to put the noun there. He was being politically correct–his base heard what they wanted to hear, and by using only one-half of the phrase he could and did issue the standard “I didn’t know and I’m sorry if you were offended” non-apology. The cherry on top is that now he has his own cat’s-paw like mike doing the ’splainin’ all the while distancing himself from a controversial comment.
md
August 28th, 2009
5:46 pm
“And to highlight the racists and bigots….the Black Leadership Council, the Congressional Black Caucus, the NAACP……now suppose we create the equivalent white, Hispanic and Asian organizations. Maybe there would be parity at last.”
For the sake of clarity, there are congressional Hispanic and Asian Caucuses – no white or european ones though.
Dusty
August 28th, 2009
5:51 pm
Normal,
You INHALED?????
Then you are correct. You must not be a mayor. You can be PRESIDENT!!!
Bob
August 28th, 2009
5:52 pm
No pron=blem for me, I saw you say your neighbors were uber privaliged and wondered why a good progressive would live by the ubers. Did they tell you that they were privaliged or did a good progressive label an entire group. Lots of good houses for sale here in town if you get tired of living among the elites in N Fulton, plenty of room in our city schools for a good progressive’s kids. If you are truly a progressive, why not get some diversity in your kids lives instead of forcing them to go to school with those that are uber privaliged?
josef nix
August 28th, 2009
5:58 pm
I agree with your summation of the Westmoreland case. The nazis played this game to the hilt. One of the most fascinating aspects of that time was just how easily and thoroughly they manipulated the language. Indeed, this is “how they did it.” This was at the heart of my issue with Jay (and, no, I’m not calling him a nazi). He tried to dismiss my objects with the dismissive I’m-sorry-if-you-were-offended and claimed, nonetheless, not to know what I was offended by. How much really is just careless use of the language, how much is falling prey to the politically correct and how much is a calculated and thought out process are, of course, relative to the conditions of the situation.
josef nix
August 28th, 2009
5:59 pm
DUSTY–not President, Dear, Fierce Advocate!
saywhat?
August 28th, 2009
6:24 pm
Mike, you don’t seem to understand that Jay IS critical of this memo, and that even though he provides background for reasons why such a memo got written. One can understand why somebody does something and still think its wrong. The phrase you seems fixated on is “It is easy to cast that aspect of the memo in the worst possible light, and some will try to do so.” Here is a question mike- was Jay’s statement untrue? Just reading the comments here seems to prove that this statement was indeed true. Some people didn’t and won’t ever consider the context and history behind this memo. Jay does, and yet still finds it to be objectionable, as do I. Why do you have a problem with this?
Jay was also critical of Westmorelands “uppity” comment, which you describe as an offhand remark, and which you feel was an example of Jay “casting it in the worst possible light”, thereby making him a hypocrite. Here, Jay was looking at the CONTEXT of Westmorelands remark, the significance of which you again failed to grasp. If Westmoreland had criticized the Clintons as “uppity”, I doubt you would have heard a peep from anybody. Some people might have defended the Clintons as being down to earth, or maybe not, but nobody would have been offended by the wording of the criticism. But when a sitting white southern Congressman calls the first black president of the United States of America and his first lady “uppity”, the context is all too obvious to anybody with a clue. Given Westmoreland’s origins and upbringing, pretending he had no idea this would be really offensive to millions of people is simply absurd. Believe it or not, Jay could have cast Westmorelands comment under far worse light, but didn’t. He made a pretty safe assumption of Westmorelands motives based on context and history, not wildly off base unsupported suppositions.
Could Jay have be wrong about his criticism of Westmoreland, and wrong about the historical and political factors possibly mitigating some of the controversy regarding this memo? Of course he could be wrong, but at least he didn’t reach his conclusions by looking at and judging these events in a vacuum, ignoring every fact he didn’t want to believe.
But as others have already said, you are right, everybody else is wrong, so don’t bother actually thinking this through.
Matilda
August 28th, 2009
6:33 pm
Bob, not that it’s any of your business, but my kids are busy adding much-needed cultural and political diversity to their schools up here, thanks. I taught them to lead, not follow, and they’re doing quite well. Thanks for your concern.
md
August 28th, 2009
6:49 pm
” But when a sitting white southern Congressman calls the first black president of the United States of America and his first lady “uppity”, the context is all too obvious to anybody with a clue.”
There are those labels I was referring to earlier. My how they make a difference. I thought one was a congressman and one was a president, funny how some see color first.
saywhat?
August 28th, 2009
6:50 pm
md wrote “For the sake of clarity, there are congressional Hispanic and Asian Caucuses – no white or european ones though.”
A Republican white or european caucus would be redundant, as would even a bipartisan congressional white caucus. In the far future though, as today’s ethnic and racial minorities eventually become an overwhelming majority, I wouldn’t be surprised to see a “white caucus” eventually spring up. When it does, I doubt there will be much stink raised about it either.
saywhat?
August 28th, 2009
6:57 pm
md wrote “There are those labels I was referring to earlier. My how they make a difference. I thought one was a congressman and one was a president, funny how some see color first.”
Go ahead and ignore the context. Next time you address a group of Holocaust survivors, show up with your head shaved, and make a funny little joke about about sending anybody who falls asleep off to the ovens. Nobody will take offense, because you will be seen merely as a speaker, and the holocaust survivors as merely an audience. Only a bigot would think of them as Jews.
When I look at Westmoreland and Obama, I do see a Congressman and a President first, but that doesn’t mean I am oblivious to everything else. Are you?
josef nix
August 28th, 2009
7:12 pm
Matilda–he keeps calling you “priviledged.” That is another one that galls me. Of course you may be priviledged. I was born, bred and brought up as “priviledged.” I was also taught that that carried with it responsibilites and primary among them was that we were the “leaders.” We would be judged, not on our birth status, but what we made of it to leave the world a better place for having passed through.
saywhat?–”Holocaust survivors…only a bigot would think of them as Jews.”
You fall prey to your own castigation. The view of the Holocaust as a “Jewish” thing ignores the fate that befell other “Untermenschen.” What you really are referring to, I think, is the Shoah. You might be interested in looking into the Porrajmos for a clearer understanding of why that distinction is important.
md
August 28th, 2009
7:34 pm
“When I look at Westmoreland and Obama, I do see a Congressman and a President first, but that doesn’t mean I am oblivious to everything else. Are you?”
And there in lies the problem for the country will not heal until one is “oblivious to everything else”. Race will be forever an issue until there are only a congressman and a president.
Bob
August 28th, 2009
7:37 pm
exactly right Matilda, it is none of my business, I just wish progressives/libs would mind their own business when it comes to my kids, my healthcare and my retirement. I’m glad those uber privileged kids have someone to lead them as I am sure none of them could ever lead, especially without the diversity you brought to the table. Could you please explain what your definition of uber privileged is, it just kind of stuck out bacause it is such a wide net you cast. And just a little disapointed that a good progressive would label an entire group that you most likely do not socialize with.
md
August 28th, 2009
7:39 pm
“In the far future though, as today’s ethnic and racial minorities eventually become an overwhelming majority, I wouldn’t be surprised to see a “white caucus” eventually spring up”
Why should there be a need for any of them. Are congresspeople there to represent us all? Last I checked, there is not a single district in these United States those is made up of solely on demographic. If there is a single solitary individual within the masses, that individual is also being represented by the elected representative.
There should be zero caucuses.
Tancred
August 28th, 2009
8:58 pm
Josef Nix:
“Curiosity? Didn’t they show more curiosity about you and where you were from than you did them.”
Actually, it’s always quite the opposite. I am always very magnanimous with people I’m talking with, and I usually ask more questions. I do oral history and historical research, so I’ve dealt with all kinds of people on a very intimate level. I do sound arrogant sometimes, but that is because we have public libraries, and a curious person has no excuse if he or she wants to learn about something. I spent more time at my public library than I ever did at school. That was just me, but curiousity is the key to self-education.
Kamchak
August 28th, 2009
9:23 pm
Tancred
Welcome to this blog. Some of us tend to be chatty, and towards the end of a thread we go off topic. As an oral historian, I believe you can bring a unique perspective to many conversations. Much of what goes on here involves pigeon-holing in a left/right paradigm simply because this is a political blog. Friday night is when many of us lay aside political differences and do a music sharing thing. Tonight is a Latin flavored evening, so if you have any favorites please feel free to share through youtube. The new thread is upstairs. Access it by checking the top of this page, right-hand side under Recent posts.
Homer
August 28th, 2009
9:46 pm
White guilt and Black ignorance is this countries problem.
josef nix
August 28th, 2009
9:59 pm
Tancred–I found you rude and vulgar, but am willing to give you a second chance. If Kamchak welcomes you, then so do I.
Jack
August 28th, 2009
10:06 pm
Well well. Talk about a tempest in a teapot! Can’t remember when I’ve seen so much said that signified absolutely nothing.
@@
August 28th, 2009
10:49 pm
There’s nothing more arrogant or presumptuous than having a white liberal explain how blacks view the world.
I would never presume to know.
Just because
August 28th, 2009
10:58 pm
The ol’ black magic ’s got a hold on Atlanta!! There will never be another white mayor that is unless Obama can get jobs for all the unions back up in Chicago, Illinois and Michigan and New Orleans gives incentives for the blacks to move back.
AeroNautica0909
August 28th, 2009
11:02 pm
I have some problems with what some people are saying in these responses. First, I do not agree with the assertion that all black majors of Atlanta have ran the city into the ground. I beg to differ, as in the growth of Atlanta as a business destination and how the city is home to the most Fortune 500 companies outside of New York City and Houston. (Yes, while some of those are in the suburbs, MOST of them are within city limits, and that still holds as being third in home to those companies.) Sure, what mayor is without flaws? However, these mayors have done something that has made Atlanta a business destination and the world’s busiest airport. Secondly, I hate the memo that was put out, as people easily believe that black people in Atlanta don’t care about anything but keeping the mayor’s office under their control. As a black college student living in Stockbridge who wants to move to Downtown, I could care less about how controls the mayor’s office- I’m more interested in how they’ll lower taxes, bring more business to the city and reduce the crime in the city, as well as revitalizing some of the inner city neighborhoods that I’ve driven through. Memos such as this is detrimental to the real issues that need to be discussed.
AeroNautica0909
August 28th, 2009
11:03 pm
Please excuse me typo… I meant to say ‘who controls the mayor’s office.’
AeroNautica0909
August 28th, 2009
11:03 pm
Oops… another typo… I meant ‘my typo.’ Wow… I’m having quite a time typing tonight.
AeroNautica0909
August 28th, 2009
11:07 pm
As a follow-up to my writing: I do agree with Mr. Bookman by saying that older people are more interested in keeping the mayor’s office in black control. Not to be a bit biased on older people but they are more set in their ways than younger people, regardless of how much things have changed. I believe the only way things will get better wherever you are, whether you’re in Atlanta or you’re in Stockbridge (like me), there needs to be fresh blood that are completely independent from past administrations of any kind. These people are more likely to make sweeping changes that will change the city for the better than anyone who has any connections to past administrations or past political machines/systems. Until that happens, regardless of who runs, whether they’re black or white, male or female, whatever- things will remain the same way. That’s when it will be up to the general populace as the electorate to see through the bullcrap and made an educated decision. I do believe that is possible… but the right candidate must present him/herself in order for positive changes to happen.
Angry Black Man
August 28th, 2009
11:10 pm
All this reading, and it seems that there was absolutely no in depth discussion. There were points made here and there, but another day wasted. I was hoping to get home and read some indepth ideas and personal viewpoints, but reading this was like watching kindergarten children fighting over ice cream.
Very good piece, Jay. I’m gonna read the entire text of the letter, but as other’s have stated, I think it’s suspicious. There would have been no better way to bring some type of drama into the election other than what was done.
And to adress the earler comment about the NAACP, study your history. Not the BS that people keep changing to be politically correct or feel good about themselves. I mean actual history. The NAACP was started by white people to help blacks that had been freed from slavery. It’s not like it appeared in the 1960’s. The organization is over 100 years old. If you don’t like it, oh well. You started it, we didn’t.
One last thing. Racist and bigoted are not the same. I wish people would learn the difference. Most people here exhibit signs of being bigoted. Sure you blurt out generalizations, but that’s about it. Racism is more of a power thing, kinda like rape. It’s about asserting power and control.
Yes, I am a Grill Master...
August 29th, 2009
12:44 am
Correction: Atlanta is NOT too busy to hate! In fact, the one thing we do well is hate each other for any superficial reason that comes to mind.
Denise Barber
August 29th, 2009
3:00 am
Hey Jay you JEW – not only is “racism” not a “…cartoonish, archaic approach to politics that, among other things, ignores the humanity of [the] individual ..” (please run that past your fellow Yids, in their dealings with Palestinians, and every other Goy, for that matter. OK?) – but “racism” is on the rise. EthnoNationalism is THE Tidal wave of the future, and it’s gonna drown Die Judenraus SOB’s, who fomented “diversity” in White Nations. Wait til every other Race sees who has engineered all the destruction. Your vile Satanic Tribe may have almost genocided White Christians – but ya still have billions of Arab Muslims just waiting for thier opportunity for payback. And the Chinese are NOT gonna save your greasy asses. Where are ya gonna “Diaspora” to next? Mars? Ha!
Denise Barber
August 29th, 2009
3:03 am
To the Angry Negroid – the NAACP was founded by JEWS , not “White People” you idiot. Specifically to use the Black Man as their chief weapon against White societies. It’s been a very successful tactic, but ultimately a failure, as Negroids are incapable of trascending Race, as well as their own innate genetically mandated savagery.
josef nix
August 29th, 2009
8:46 am
Denise Barber–and top o’the mornin’ to ye, too! Being meself in a fine fettle of a mood for the Shabbas, I couldna help but to be a respondin’ to yer posts. Before I begin though, the Unmentionable says “o-si-yo, unega, and when have you booked passage?”
First, though, is Jay a JEW or for that matter a Jew or as some would post here a jew? Now, I must admit myself, I had sort of assumed he was at the outset, Bookman being a Jew-sounding name, but then so is Barber, but Nix isn’t, so sounds and looks can be deceiving. I still don’t know and in some of mine and Jay’s tangles, I have been tempted in moments of hyperbole to, well, let’s just say, question his International Zionist Conspiracy sympathies.
Now as for yid, well, I’m not particularly offended by that one since it IS the Yiddish word for “Jew,” but being a Sephard myself, I’m afraid my own intra-tribu prejudices color my interpretation thereof.
I don’t presuppose to speak for “every other Goy,” but the one I’ve shared bread, beads and
(uninfested-by-smallpox) blankets with over the last few decades gives me and mine his seal of approval.
Die Judenraus SOBs, eh? Well, if you’re going to spout the dogma, at least get the vocabulary right. If we’re now proper noun status, Judenraus, then your need for Juden ‘raus is now fait accompli and why all the kvetching? Satanic tribe of engineers? Oh, well, the terminologies may be a bit distinct here, but you’ll find plenty of liberal bloggers hereabouts who share your sentiments.
BillionS of Arab Muslims? Wow, have they already gotten rid of the Arab Christians, Arab Jews, Arab Druze, et. al along with the 800,000,000 non Arab Muslims and then reproduced to this point. Hey, them some bad-a** folks we’re dealing with. And the White Christians? What about all those followers of the Christ who don’t pass the Nurnberg test?
Where we gonna “Diaspora” to next? Who knows. But, then, wherever it may be, no doubt the Allm-ghty will see that at lease a remnant survives just to gall folks like you and give you a vent for your Weltanschauungzeitgeistangst. So far, though, life’s been pretty good for my folks down here in Dixieland since the mid 1600s. Mars is a little cold, but Babylon 5 doesn’t look too bad from what I’ve seen so far.
As for the angry Knee-grows, if he promises to check his melanin count first, I’ll leave it to ABM to speak for that tribe in the wilderness. I would like to know, though, who the Jews were among the founders of the Pole Bearers’ Union (forerunner of the NAACP) and who that general was from the war we can’t mention on Jay’s blog with my name attached to the post who was the first white man invited to address the group?
“And the gray sky opened like a new-rent veil
And showed the apostles with their coats of mail.
In bright white steel they were seated round,
And their fire-eyes watched where the Congo wound.
And the twelve Apostles, from their thrones on high,
Thrilled all the forest with their heavenly cry:
“Mumbo-Jumbo will die in the jungle;
Never again will he hoo-doo you,
Never again will he hoo-doo you.”
–Vachel Lindsay, WASP poet
Oh, well, genug ist genug…
Normal
August 29th, 2009
9:50 am
I bet Denise has a a few K’s tattooed on her butt. As my favorite philosopher says…”What a Maroon”
josef nix
August 29th, 2009
10:53 am
Normal–you can bet she wasn’t sippin’ any Carmel Sauvignon! Bless her matzo-pickin’ little heart. G-d love her though…you mean she’s a Jamaican Maroon?
Denise Barber
August 29th, 2009
1:03 pm
To Josef the Yid – ya wanna talk history? Ok bubbelah – let’s hear your opinions of the Ashkenazi attempts at snuffing OUT the Sephardi, in the late 20th Century, after the successful Khazar fun ‘n games genocide of millions of White Russian Christians, in “Soviet” (Talmudic) Russia, and the slaughter and demonization of MILLIONS of Germans, in Poland and Germany, in the first half othe “Jewish Century”. Seems that the Ashkenazis, when they didn’t have Gentiles to butcher, turned your YOU. Hey – since Judaic bloodlust kNOW boundaries – I guess it’s OK for your boychicks to turn on each other. To keep thier skills up. To paraphrase your boychick Karl Marx, “Hey – gotta break some eggs…”. Right?
And do tell me if you’ve had a chance to peruse your copy of Ariel Toaff’s “Blood Passover” yet. Turns out the “libel”….eeerr..wasn’t libel after all!. I finally got and Englsih translation, and I’m only through the first few chapters……..
You had better fnd a place to burrow, my dear Vermin. The Goy are …just beginning…to notice….that a lot of the Global financial mayhem seems ot have been wrought by a distinct ethnic faction………Hmmmmwhere will you go, THIS time? I know you tihnk you have all the JudeoXians locked up, but yout eternal Pride (you got THAT trait from your Daddy, in Hell) prevents you from actually seeing and hearing what’s happening around you. The USA is in total ruin. The Race Wars have already begun. Your Media refuses to report what’s occurring, but soon, very soon, reality will be inescapable. Even them ost moronic, deluded White American Shabbos Goy Schmoo (li.e. “Normal) will have to get off the Racial Utopian Tiolet Seat, in order to simply stay alive – or be flushed down the crap per, by the Darkies they’ve been taught to adore. (Who do NOT return the favor). File the Lost White Goy under the “Eve Carson Poetic Justice” file.
Europeans – you know – that means White – are too busy to serve you, nowadays, as they are fighting off the Muslim invaders themsleves, and are making brilliant headway. The Italians are tossing out Africans and Gyspsy vermin. The BNP is gaining ground by the second. France has that idious little Hungarian Jew at their collective throats – but France is already gone, and the Arab Muzzies kill your Tribe for sport, there. Speaking OF Hungarians – you surely know what they think of you THERE. The USA is AT the point of total collapse, so the Shabbos Goy Military are gonna have their hand full, here, when trhe REAL Party begins. They won’t be able to clamp down on the poosr Eastern Europeans anymore. They know al about YOU, and they are FULL fed up. Putin is playing really clever games right now – but his reponse to the attacks on ethnic Russians, by the Israeli proxy PM, from Georgia, with the ACTUAL Israeli Minister of Defense leading the slaughter, ought to be indictative of where his true sympathies lie. And it ain’t with YOUR Tribe.
What else? Oh – the Icelandic banking colllapse (with Peter Orszag right at the heart of it. Where is HE now, I wonder?…hmmmm….) I heard that those English Special forces had to airlift key platers out, when the banks were closed, including that Israeli beeyich wife of the “Lutheran” PM. Wow. You Hebes sure do get around! I guess it’s the constant expulsions. She’s from an extremely wealthy jewelling family. I understand her grandfather founded the family business by robbing graves. Oy vey! Why do dead people need earring and necklaces, right? Perhpas she’ll wind up in the USA, and carry on for the organ-dealng rabbis….now they they are kinda tied up….
When oy broke bread with your deluded Goy pals – did you use your Special plates? Did they notice?
They JudeoXians will snap out of it The whisperings, out of earshot, have begun…..
Finally – what is your favorite book of the Talmud? The Sodomy at the Synagogue one?
And “not-so-Normal’ can you TRY to be a tad or original than offering inane references to the Klan. Jews thnk you are in idiot, when you suck up to them. And they are right. You don’t see them mocking you to your face, do you? No wonder they regard you as a Cattle Beast Slave.
I am not Klan. I have met Klan, and they are rather sweet. Perhaps you ought to seek them out, though, and cozy up to them ,as they are generous, and will teach you how to survive what’s coming.
RollerGirl
August 29th, 2009
2:02 pm
saywhat? ..
you said “… the more enlightened of us will have to suffer from hearing the valueless spittle flecked rantings of the terminally stupid.”
I assume that means you often read Cynthia Tucker’s column…
josef nix
August 29th, 2009
4:27 pm
The Ashkenazim have not attempted to snuff out the Sephardim. In fact the exact opposite is true. The Sephardic of Hebrew, with Arabic, is one of the languages of the State of Israel.
“Jewish Century?” Oy, we haven’t had it this good since the 14th…
L-rd, you just don’t know who to hate do you? You’re all over the page. I thought y’all had a priority list with us and the Roma at the top, but apparently the Muslims (all several billions of the Arab ones, it would seem) are in the same boat.
Yes, I know what the Hungarians think. They stood up against your kind and put up a fight even when it came down to the wire, saving their fellow Hungarians by the tens of thousands and finally, finally, putting a halt to the trains. They didn’t get a lot of help from outside either, though your very white Sweden and the country named for your savior, El Salvador, must be singled out as the exceptions.
The Republic of Georgia? That’s one of the Caucasian states, isn’t it?
Yes, I do have my special china for Pesach. And, yes, it did receive compliments from the goyim present.
Out of earshot? Oh, sister, if you only knew! In appearance I am your Hitlerian Aryan poster child, strapping build, blonde and blue-eyed as they come and speak my native English in a Southern accent you could cut with a butter knife (or a mohel’s knife should you prefer). i can pass quite easily into the greater society and, quite frankly, I’m not distressed by what I hear being “whispered” at least as far as my “tribe” is concerned.
And Normal? Well, it’s because of people like him that I don’t fear people like you. And there’s a lot more of him than there are of you. Thank the Alm-ghty G-d, Cr-ator of the Universe.
Kamchak
August 29th, 2009
5:13 pm
I am not Klan. I have met Klan and they are rather sweet.
I know you love the South josef just as I do, but this is the kind of thing that I acknowledge as existing just under the surface of many Southerners. That this thing has managed to say “to your face” what many will not speaks to that under-current of (I don’t know–”hatred” seems so inadequate and “tribalism” too clinical) knuckle-dragging neanderthalism that will continue to be an anchor to the human race. If Denise is indeed of the fairer sex, that just proves it takes both boars and sows to breed pigs.
catlady
August 29th, 2009
6:03 pm
I’m afraid it IS like that, Jay.
josef nix
August 29th, 2009
6:11 pm
Kamchak, Catlady…thanks for taking the time. But, K, I’m not sure she’s a Southerner. I’m not sure she’s even human.
Normal
August 29th, 2009
6:24 pm
Josef…elsewhere
Normal
August 29th, 2009
6:25 pm
Dinese, If you’re the product of what’s coming, I don’t want to survive…jus’ sayin’
Kamchak
August 29th, 2009
6:29 pm
But, K, I’ not sure she’s a Southerner
Wanna bet a shot of Jameson’s on that?
I’m not sure she’s even human.
One of my favorite shows was Dark Angel (Jessica Alba–sigh). Don’t know if you are familiar with it but the show was about genetically engineered humans. Some of the experiments didn’t go as planned and these ‘nomalies were kept in the basement. Nature produces it’s own anomalies.
Angry Black Man
August 29th, 2009
6:46 pm
Josef
I quit reading that bs at the word negroid. WTF is a negroid? Is it a black hemmoroid? Some type of super secret cyborg?
Norm, sent you a message. And I totally agree with your 6:25.
Sad to say that I even go to work to protect the right for people to prattle off like that.
josef nix
August 29th, 2009
7:16 pm
K’chak–would bet with you, but even I’d not give me good odds there!
Normal–well, I DO want to survive. Pop up and p*ss her off for real! Can’t you just see it now. Hey, there’s an idea for a screen play. Just think, there may indeed be a Sartian h*ll and she’ll be trapped with me forever!
ABM–aw, come on. You and Normal and K’chak could be right there with me! Got some preparation H for you–that H stands for Hebe…and yeah, earlier I was wondering about my own unbending dedication to the right of free speech, but when I asked Jay to leave this up, it was because to take it down would be stooping to her level and selling out…
Jay
August 29th, 2009
7:34 pm
Josef, Kam, if you google her name there’s a suggestion she may hail from Pennsylvania.
Which wouldn’t surprise me, really. The tone and language of her rant — unless my ear is mistaken, it doesn’t sound like the southern-style bigot. There’s something ideological and cant-driven about it, which in my experience signifies a northern subspecies of that breed.
Kamchak
August 29th, 2009
8:07 pm
Jay
I sit corrected.
josef nix
August 29th, 2009
8:11 pm
JAY–Thanks. I should have bet with K*mchak! I suspected as much and for the same reasons you did, but I just couldn’t put it in words. I wanted to say a Southerner would have been more “artful”and “original” in expressing hatred and bigotry, but I figured that would sound like I was being my usual ethnocentric self. Your “ideological” and “cant driven” distinction says it best. And thanks for leaving this up.
josef nix
August 29th, 2009
8:28 pm
K’Chak–well, well, well…see what I get for coming to agreement with you! Lost my shot!
josef nix
August 29th, 2009
8:29 pm
Off to Babylon 5 and G’Kar’s redemption. As the Unmentionable says, “Jews in space!”
Denise Barber
August 30th, 2009
1:57 pm
You Yids are deploying the same tired attempts at marginalization, and ” thought control”, via your trite, cliched slurs of “hate” and bigot/racist” etc. – but none of you address my charges. My factual, accurate, historic charges.
None of you ever really deny Jew criminality – you do what you always do, and attempt to swerve. Create distractions. Mis-direct. You are too proud of your evil to ever really deny or denounce it.
Your strategy is growing less effective by the minute.
Josef pretends to answer my charges, because he may have convinced himself that he IS doing so, But all you do, Josef, is put out meaningless JewSpew, as your genetics dictate. A lot of Kosher sound and fury, signifying nothing. Simply because you have yellow hair and blue eyes does not make you an Aryan. You are merely a lighter variant of the Khazar (if your description is accurate. Who knows? Who cares?). Race is in the DNA. You cannot change that fact. Not now. Not ever. Your Tribe has tricked a lot of people – but genetics will out, in the end. The facade is cracking already.
And the Askenazi did try to kill off as many Sephardi, after WWII. (and a Sepharid recentyl called for the Sephardi to purge and kill the Ashkenazi, in IsraH#ll, to retunr the favor. I read Haaretz.. Do you?) You are either wholy ignorant, or a liar. Possibly both – likely both – as your utter inversion of events in Hungary indicate. THEY want YOU out. They are working on Big Old Joo Azz Boot #110.
Oh – did your compimentin’ Goy know they were eating off differnet plates? What cute little story did you tell ‘em? Just curious. You Yids are so very clever in your fabrications.
And you have failed (hhhmmmm) to satisfy my curiosity about your reactions to Toaff’s “Blood Passover” opus, yet. Why?
NotNormal – Josef just marekd and tagged you as his pathetic, servile Shabbos Goy slave, and you are too ignorant to even know it, and too self-deluded to care. He thinks uou are a moron, NotNormal. I wonder if you will ever possess the courage to educate yourself, and to wake up.If you ever do – great! If not – no loss. You are dead wieght, and obstructive and dangerous to Whites. Good riddance if your Masters chew you up and spit you out.
As far as my “ideological cant” – I’m simply coverng a LOT of ground. FAST.
And a Jew slurring a any-one as a “racist” is the funniest and most ironic thing EVER – snce “Judaism” is a religion based on Race, bloodlines mono-maniacal obsession with ethnic identification, and self-worship.
For the rest of you – your crude attempts at insulting me simply prove my every point. Your grotesque, heinous “religion” amd your Satanic Bible the Talmud characterizes all Gentiles AS beats, and lesser, inhuman beings. So your words simply “live the cliche”
Denise Barber
August 30th, 2009
2:00 pm
AngryMandingo- yes – a “black hemorrhoid” . Yup. That’s a very clear and accurate self-characterization.
Normal
August 30th, 2009
2:08 pm
Debbie, don’t bother baiting me. Your kind of person does not have anything for me and your name calling just marks you as sad.. I will tell you one thing though, I feel sorry for you. I can see that somewhere life has slapped you down hard. All I can say is get over it and you’ll feel better. Oh, and before you start again…Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me.
BTW, Judging by what I am reading from you, I would rather be a slave of Josef’s than a friend of you. Jus’ sayin’
Denise Barber
August 30th, 2009
2:12 pm
Jay, dear bubbelah – re: “ideological cant” – considering every word you write – yup. You know from ideological cant. Inside out.
josef nix
August 30th, 2009
3:15 pm
Debbie–and a cheery Christian Sabbath to you, too! Well, I’ve got the bait and you’ve got the hooks, but I’m just going to have to be selective since even this can doesn’t have enough worms to get to them all.
I’ve told you, I’m not a YID. Now if you’d like we can go into Ladino here, since I do know a little, but, well our name for ourselves never really entered into the daily lexicon as a pejorative. Nope, no Khazars here, Western European since the time of Charlemagne. While my papers wouldn’t pass your Nurnberg muster, I do have them back that far and, yes, there have been enough despoiled by choice shaygets and shiksas along the way to give me my Paul Newman eyes and hair.
JewSpew–ooh, I like that one! I’ll even add it to my own lexicon. And genetics and DNA? Ooh, so I’m not really responsible. I’m a birth defect? And all this time I thought I was just a jacka** of my own making. Too much of that pride, I guess.
I’m glad to see you’re so widely read. I’ve got you one from Hungary that would really give you grist for your mill, but I’ve already caused enough stink with it getting me threats from some of my fellow Hebes that would make you quake in awe.
Oh, the Pesach china–that you should ask about the “funny little story!” Some of them have been in the family for generations and among them are some that Great-Granny was able to hold onto during the Judah Benjamin inspired wah-uh when your good General Grant’s General Order # 11 (check that one out. You’ll find you a new hero here!) was in effect and her servile neighbors refused to “turn her in.”
Since I don’t keep kosher in the strictest sense, making me ever-so-popular among my my orthodox tribesmen, I’ve no need of a Shabbas goy. Oh, yes, bubbaleh? Well, Normal ain’t me grandpappy, but given what he knows of Granddaddy, I think he might be flattered you’d think so. As for chewing him up and spitting him out, he’d be a bit gamey, though I do hear tell he tastes like chicken.
So, Gentiles are “beats?” Okay, Norm, “…turn the beat around, got to hear percussion…”
So, how do you know ABM is Mandingo? I had always assumed that he was Ibu given the migration patterns of his ancestors. Sorry, ABM, but you know you are a “pain in the posterior” to a lot of folks!
Jay, dear Bubbaleh, are you my granddaddy on the other side? You’d probably like him. He was an incorrigible ole coot who slaughtered poor helpless little clams for the amusement of his friends, too.
So, Norm, lift that barge and tote that bale, cain’t git ABM to do it no more!
Well, thanks for the entertainment…I always wondered what I would have said when Hitler was “on the rise.” Well, now I know…
Kamchak
August 30th, 2009
3:30 pm
I retract my comments about sows and boars and sincerely apologize to all porcine creatures that I have offended.
josef nix
August 30th, 2009
3:47 pm
K’Chak–on behalf of the chazerim if not the Khazarim, apologies accepted, Toadie!
Angry Black Man
August 30th, 2009
8:19 pm
Josef & Normal
You know there’s a rule here about feeding the trolls. You don’t feed them after midnight.
And Denise,
I’m sure you’re just the epitome of perfection. Well, at least in your own little world. Throwing insults only makes you look childish. If you can’t refer to me by my screen name, don’t refer to me at all. I have not once said anything cross about you or your people. It’s a D@mn shame if you’re representative of the women that’s available. No wonder men are either gay or in prison.
josef nix
August 30th, 2009
9:52 pm
ABM–not yet 10 p.m. EDT! Who ARE her people? But the time tripping this weekend has been an experience. Babylon 5 back to the 1930s, back to Babylon 5, back to the 1930s, of course with stops c 1960 with our other friends! Oh, well, it’s back to the present in the a.m. Have a good one!
c.j.
August 31st, 2009
8:22 am
I guess I won’t make any mayoral decisions about my vote, until Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson get to the bottom of this whole thing. This must be a conspiracy by the Bush Administration to systematically turnover racial mayoral control of all “Chocolate” cities in order to begin the demise of the Obama Presidency.
Constructive Feedback
August 31st, 2009
9:22 am
Mr Bookman:
Despite your attempt to show an even hand in the face of Black Racialism – you instead show your bias.
You know as well as I do (and I am a Black man – for the record) that if this type of memo was released from a WHITE group that you, Cynthia Tucker and Mike Luckovitch would take turn in blasting the group out of the water.
You WOULD NOT find a Black group who did the same thing and thus try to argue for balanced consideration – as this submission by you attempted.
Sometimes its best to call out the scoundrels and repudiate their actions in a stand alone basis.
hryder
August 31st, 2009
9:44 am
Racism, liberal guilt, idealist aura, are a few of the underlying reasons for electing our current incompetent in the Oval Office. The Big O never did really commit to anything but being elected and the ever nebulous “change”. Now we are stuck with an incompetent chief executive who truely believes he is more competent and knowledgable than his detractors. Winning elections has been his forte. He is a novice at governing and has displayed a few major failures. He was elected to be President not king, change was desired in a few areas, not rolling out a new model with so many features that NO ONE person could comprehend its purpose or how it operated, and being totally oblivious to any economic realities. CONGRESS, ALL SENATORS AND REPRESENTATIVES, SIT ON YOUR HANDS AND ALLOW THE BIG O TO DANGLE IN THE WIND. If not, you should resign or expect to be out of office when the next election for your current seat occurs.
josef nix
August 31st, 2009
4:12 pm
Enter your comments here
Constructive–and you can bet Luckovich would have a Cross of St Andrew in there somewhere!
NetAtlanta » Blog Archive » Memo about a ‘black agenda’ in mayor’s race roils Atlanta
August 31st, 2009
10:53 pm
[...] memo is “dangerous” and “offensive,” writes the Altanta Journal-Constitution’s Jay Bookman in a blog, in that it “treats the mayor’s office as a black possession, a trophy of sorts that could be [...]
FUNGAZI.COM » Blog Archive » A Censored But Amazingly Significant Indicator of Current American Racism
September 3rd, 2009
6:50 pm
[...] The use and abuse of racial identity in politics, Atlanta-style [...]
builder.b
September 8th, 2009
10:18 am
In 1993 my house was vandalized with the words “N***R, KKK, swastikas and White Power” by a black guy. I was accused of being the racist when I reported it to the police and news media. What hope is there when the perpetrators of treacherous racism and hate crimes are the ones who will never be official suspects?