Touching all the bases regarding the health-care reform bill
A couple of items to get this Friday started here.
At Politico, Roger Simon argues that President Obama’s first health-care town hall was, well, I’ll let him describe it:
“Barack Obama needed an angry mob at his town hall meeting in Portsmouth, N.H., this week.
He needed to show strength, resolve and fortitude in the face of confrontation, anger and vitriol.
Instead, Obama got a tea party. His health care town hall was filled with polite people who apparently felt that a president of the United States deserves a certain amount of respect.
What a disaster. Everybody was expecting what is happening at the town hall meetings being held by members of Congress this summer: yelling, screaming, the waving of arms and the gnashing of teeth.”
The White House says it’s only a coincidence, but tickets for today’s presidential town hall in Montana are being handed out on a first-come, first-served basis, rather than through the White House website. That could produce a more volatile crowd, and thus more fireworks for the cable TV folks.
Meanwhile, the New York Times tracks that “death panel” baloney backs to its source:
“… the rumor — which has come up at Congressional town-hall-style meetings this week in spite of an avalanche of reports laying out why it was false — was not born of anonymous e-mailers, partisan bloggers or stealthy cyberconspiracy theorists.
Rather, it has a far more mainstream provenance, openly emanating months ago from many of the same pundits and conservative media outlets that were central in defeating President Bill Clinton’s health care proposals 16 years ago, including the editorial board of The Washington Times, the American Spectator magazine and Betsy McCaughey, whose 1994 health care critique made her a star of the conservative movement (and ultimately, New York’s lieutenant governor).
… over the course of the past few months, early, stated fears from anti-abortion conservatives that Mr. Obama would pursue a pro-abortion, pro-euthanasia agenda, combined with twisted accounts of actual legislative proposals that would provide financing for optional consultations with doctors about hospice care and other “end of life” services, fed the rumor to the point where it overcame the debate.
… “I guess what surprised me is the ferocity, it’s much stronger than I expected,” said John Rother, the executive vice president of AARP, which is supportive of the health care proposals and has repeatedly declared the “death panel” rumors false. “It’s people who are ideologically opposed to Mr. Obama, and this is the opportunity to weaken the president.”
But Sarah Palin, who took a lot of heat for claiming on her Facebook page that she fears one of these “death panels” could end up ordering the death of her son Trig, isn’t dissuaded, repeating the basic claim in a second post with footnotes and everything
But at Gawker, they’re not impressed, arguing there’s no way in hell Sarah Palin wrote that post:
“In fact, a cursory glance is more than sufficient to come to that realization as the note is obviously meticulously researched and footnoted, appears to be entirely grammatically correct (It even contains semicolons!), presents rather cogent arguments in a reasoned attempt to persuade, and on the whole is written articulately. In short, whoever composed this particular note is everything that Sarah Palin is not: thoughtful, patient, dedicated, thorough, and rational, traits that any casual, non-delusional observer of Sarah Palin would never, ever associate with her.
Another key indicator in determining that Sarah Palin did not write this particular note are the host of Palin rhetorical hallmarks missing from it. Just ask yourself this question: Is it possible for Sarah Palin to compose anything clocking in at just under 1000 words that’s completely devoid of references to God, the troops, the liberal media, Alaska, Ronald Reagan, her baby with Down Syndrome, or a hilariously painful attempt to channel her inner Jack London with some great poetic flourish? No! There is absolutely no consistency between this Facebook note and anything we’ve ever seen written or spoken by Sarah Palin.”
Maybe Bill Ayers wrote it for her? Someone surely did.
And as a consequence of all this fake controversy, the Senate Finance Committee rewrote its version of the reform bill, striking language proposed by Sen. Johnny Isakson of Georgia on end-of-life planning. They surrendered to the crazies, which is never a good idea.
Grow a spine, folks.
Oh, and I’d be remiss not to point out the testimonials to the National Health Service still pouring in from our friends across the pond. They pretty much drive a stake through the heart of the right-wing myth that Britain’s single-payer system is a disaster.
Not that Obama is proposing a single-payer system.
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237 comments Add your comment
ByteMe
August 14th, 2009
7:58 am
I don’t think Obama needs to face a townhall crowd of jacked-up crazies.
I think he needs to face a crowd of 80,000. Big stadium, big impact. Go the “rock star” route. Have him do a “Top 10 Stupidest Rumors About Healthcare” list and make fun of every item on the list (without footnotes).
USinUK
August 14th, 2009
8:00 am
“They pretty much drive a stake through the heart of the right-wing myth that Britain’s single-payer system is a disaster.”
well, Jay, all I can say is that you have a lot more faith than I do in the right learning through observation.
when it comes to their unflagging belief in the “free market”, they worship at the dual altar of Adam Smith, his son John Galt and the holy ghost of “trickle down” economics … they will never be persuaded that the NHS is anything less than a 3rd world service that is inferior to the US profit-based health system, no matter how many statistics you show them.
“there are none so blind … blahblahblah”
ty webb
August 14th, 2009
8:01 am
Gawker is just Sexist. They can’t handle the fact that we had a women candidate for Vice President. They hate women. No one can disagree with Sarah Palin without being sexist. Sexism is the only reason. The left’s attacks on Sarah Palin are rooted in Sexism. It’s that simple. debate over. Man, that was easy.
Bud Wiser
August 14th, 2009
8:02 am
This from the Daily Mail – London – today: Many women are not using the ’safest’ brands of the Pill, claim researchers….
Two new studies suggest there is a higher risk of blood clots in newer brands of oral contraceptives compared with older types and low-oestrogen brands….
All types of combined Pill slightly increase the risk of the problem of blood clots, which can lead to deep vein thrombosis (DVT) in the leg or arm and potentially fatal pulmonary embolism….
In a BMJ editorial Dr Nick Dunn, of the University of Southampton, said venous thrombosis is one of the Pill’s most serious side effects but is ‘very, very rare’. He did not know what proportion of women are using different types of Pill and the risk was low enough that women should still be allowed to favour one over another….
According to the NHS National Prescribing Centre, all combined oral contraceptives increase the risk of venous thrombosis….
Soooooo,, the obvious next progressive step in logic would lead one to believe that NHS, since it thinks ‘they are all the same’, will ignore clinical studies and prescribe the cheapest medicine.
Whaddaya think Obamacare would do? Welllll, if you are between the ages of 25-40, if you get the required medicine after the review panel studies your intrinsic value and use to society, it will (to save money) also be the cheapest, and, perhaps not the best as assessed by clinical study, ‘because they are all the same’. Over age 40? I hope you enjoy pain.
Gale
August 14th, 2009
8:05 am
ty webb: It must be too early for me to follow this one. Sarcasm? Disagreeing with St Sarah is sexist? odd. I need another cup of coffee.
Peadawg
August 14th, 2009
8:08 am
If this Obamacare passes, say goodbye to your freedom of choosing the insurance that fits you best.
Gale
August 14th, 2009
8:10 am
Hmmm… Guys, how should the drug panel decide “need” and drug safety in the case of erectile dysfunction drugs? Since you are all up to date on birth control drugs, what about the other side of that story?
ty webb
August 14th, 2009
8:12 am
Gale,
It’s that simple. Anyone who criticicizes sarah palin is a sexist. Plain and simple. All criticism of her is rooted in sexism. Again, Most of these people just can’t accept the fact that we had a woman candidate for Vice President. Come on, its obvious.
USinUK
August 14th, 2009
8:13 am
“goodbye to your freedom of choosing the insurance that fits you best”
I would LOVE to know how many people do that today …
The last time I had a job that offered me a CHOICE of insurance plans was when I was with the State government … every insurance policy I’ve had with every other private sector job is a “you get what you’re given” …
“choice”, my sweet patootie.
Gale
August 14th, 2009
8:15 am
Peadawg, the insurance that fits me best is the one that will continue to pay if I become ill or lose my job -without- forcing me to first declare bankruptcy and borrow from everyone in my family and all my friends. What do you actually want insurance to do that you are concerned about “fit”?
Peadawg
August 14th, 2009
8:15 am
Hey USinUK, who was twisting your arm to take your company’s insurance? I work for the state as well. We don’t HAVE to take our employer’s insurance.
Kim, Nottingham
August 14th, 2009
8:15 am
“Soooooo,, the obvious next progressive step in logic would lead one to believe that NHS, since it thinks ‘they are all the same’, will ignore clinical studies and prescribe the cheapest medicine.”
Nothing like putting 2 + 2 together and coming out with 5.
Mrs. Godzilla
August 14th, 2009
8:17 am
WELL FINALLY!
The 1/2 termer has gotten herself some serious staff! Good for her.
How about this for great healthcare reform news:
“”Insurer originally sought 56 percent rate hike, but regulators refused
Michigan insurance regulators have approved a 22 percent increase for group and individual Blue Cross Blue Shield health policies in the state, according to reports published Thursday”"
Here:
http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/08/13/blue-cross-of-michigan-to-raise-individul-group-rates-by-22-percent/
We need single payer!
stands for decibels
August 14th, 2009
8:18 am
ty @ 8.12, just FYI, outside of a few rash lefties, I know of nobody who is claiming that all of the healthcare reform criticism is rooted in racism.
If you want to argue that the race card is being played too often by too prominent a group of lefties, make that case. I’m happy to hear it. Cite examples, show your work.
Gale
August 14th, 2009
8:18 am
ty webb: OK, I am not among that “most people” group who are sexist then. I disagree strongly with Sarah Palin and I voted for Clinton. In fact, I did a write in during the elction even though she did not win the party nomination.
Mrs. Godzilla
August 14th, 2009
8:18 am
Bud
Are American women using the safest form of the pill?
Peadawg
August 14th, 2009
8:19 am
I just don’t see how people are ok w/ the government controlling all these different aspects of your life. I don’t want the government to choose who my doctor is, what hospital I have to go to, what insurance I must have, etc.
How about they make new laws for the insurance companies…don’t put them out of business and make everyone get insurance through the government.
Gale
August 14th, 2009
8:21 am
dB, is that it? This is really a veiled racism argument by ty?
USinUK
August 14th, 2009
8:22 am
“Hey USinUK, who was twisting your arm to take your company’s insurance? I work for the state as well. We don’t HAVE to take our employer’s insurance”
yeah. you’re right. I don’t have to pay my share of $150 out of my paycheck … instead, I can “choose” to pay $400-500 out of my paycheck (with a $4000 deductible).
some choice.
Normal
August 14th, 2009
8:22 am
BUD…Said it downstairs when you posted the same thing, but I’ll say it here too, you are soooo funny…
Bob
August 14th, 2009
8:23 am
why is Americas rate of recovery from heart desease and cancer better than the UK and Canada and why are these subjects not considered by the world health organization when they rank countries ?
stands for decibels
August 14th, 2009
8:23 am
This is really a veiled racism argument by ty?
I’m not ty, but I took his snark to mean that those pushing for healthcare reform are guilty of tarring all opponents as racist. I could be wrong, of course.
USinUK
August 14th, 2009
8:23 am
“Nothing like putting 2 + 2 together and coming out with 5″
hahaha … Kim, I was thinking more like 2+2=clams — it makes a heckuva lot more sense than his conclusion.
Zeddicus Zu'l Zorander
August 14th, 2009
8:24 am
That’s a good boy Jay. Vaguely hit some topics, copy and paste, and take a shot at Sarah Palin.
Good boy! Now sit! Stay!
Taxpayer
August 14th, 2009
8:25 am
I think the Republican’s so-called debate on the particular issue of end-of-life counseling has successfully ended the Republican, Isakson’s, proposal from being considered in the Senate version of the health care legislation. Isakson has his own party members and their backers to thank for that. Let’s see where we go next. I think the Republicans could now shift their focus to that horrid effort by Democrats to cut Medicare. That would be a most excellent topic of anger and rage. By the way, have I mentioned lately that the Republican plan is just great. Everything is progressing perfectly. Don’t change a thing except perhaps giving Sarah and Newt and Chuck, for starters, a little more air time.
USinUK
August 14th, 2009
8:25 am
“pay $400-500 out of my paycheck”
rats. that should have read “pay $400-500 for a single policy” … 2 days of sunny weather in a row is getting to me …
Gale
August 14th, 2009
8:26 am
Mrs. Godzilla, the safety of the pill is a relative thing, isn’t it? Mess with hormones at your risk. The alternatives are difficult to manage. The risks of potential health problems many years down the road have to be balanced with the convenience of birth control. But then, long term side effects of many supposedly safe drugs are rarely tested adequately. Look what surfaced with menopause estrogen therapy.
Normal
August 14th, 2009
8:27 am
Peadawg
August 14th, 2009
8:19 am
So if you have group insurance like I have, the only choice of doctors I have is whoever is on their approved list. If the doctor I like is not on that list, I have to go “out of network” and that cost more money out of pocket. Choice of doctors, indeed.
Taxpayer
August 14th, 2009
8:28 am
This from the Daily Mail – London – today: Many women are not using the ’safest’ brands of the Pill, claim researchers….
Those problems existed even back before you were born, Bud… Oops, I wasn’t supposed to let that slip out, was I. My bad.
Finn McCool
August 14th, 2009
8:28 am
Listening to this NPR article about Wal-Mart. Their health care policies are sad.
First, they hire mostly people who are covered elsewhere – old folks, young people, and people whose spouses have insurance. That’s how they can claim 96% of employees have health insurance when only about 51% of their employees are covered through the Wal-Mart system.
Second, they prefer plans that are low premiums but high deductibles – deductibles as high as $3,000. A mom of 2 kids making $22,000 would have to cover that $3,000! So, most employees don’t even take the health care.
WOW! I wont even mention their work-hour practices.
Peadawg
August 14th, 2009
8:29 am
” If the doctor I like is not on that list, I have to go “out of network” and that cost more money out of pocket. ”
Get a different policy..duh!
Taxpayer
August 14th, 2009
8:31 am
I work for the state as well.
Ewwww. Another conservative Republican that lives off the taxpayer.
Joey
August 14th, 2009
8:32 am
I am convinced that almost everyone writes differently, some very differently, from the way they speak.
Mrs. Godzilla
August 14th, 2009
8:32 am
Gale
You are right on….regarding the relative safety of oral hormones.
I think however for Bud’s point to have any validity in the context of the healthcare debate, we need to know if US women are getting the same
less safe product than those covered by the NHS.
I was well aware of the foolishness of pumping my body full of
hormones 27 years ago after the birth of my second child and I selected another alternative to long term birth control. (Had to fight with a priest about it, but that’s a story for another day)
USinUK
August 14th, 2009
8:33 am
Gale and Mrs. G … the question is “how much increased?” … we all know the ZOMG! nature of health reporting, where they take an inconsequential result and hype it to such an extent, it bears no actual resemblance to the study.
all pills carry a risk of causing clotting – particularly if you’re a smoker. are the new pills carring a HUGE increase in risk, or are we talking about the 1/1,000 increasing to 1.2/1,000 …
sorry, but this generates an overwhelming “meh” from me.
Gale
August 14th, 2009
8:33 am
joey @8:32. True, what’s your point?
Normal
August 14th, 2009
8:34 am
PEADAWG. Get a different policy..duh!
How very inciteful. I have a group policy I can barely afford and your advice is “get another policy”. But I can’t get an individual policy because of pre-existing conditions even if I could afford it. You really are a dunce.
Peadawg
August 14th, 2009
8:35 am
Normal…you really think Obamacare is better? lol
Actually…go ahead and let him pass this stupid bill. People will realize how bad it is and he will be out of office in 2012.
Bud Wiser
August 14th, 2009
8:36 am
Kim, Nottingham
August 14th, 2009
8:15 am
“Soooooo,, the obvious next progressive step in logic would lead one to believe that NHS, since it thinks ‘they are all the same’, will ignore clinical studies and prescribe the cheapest medicine.”
Nothing like putting 2 + 2 together and coming out with 5.
My mistake. I was assuming I was talking to those possessing reasoning capability, but I should have known that the garden variety libtard</i< would post something ignorant like that. Only a libtard can add 2 + 2 and come up with 5. Of course, in these days of feel good, you don’t have to be right, OR EVEN SMART, to get a passing grade in school (we don’t want to hurt your feelings by telling everyone you are as stupid as your grades make you look), that is to be expected.
So to all you libtards out there, just go on drooling and worshiping your massa, you haven’t the intelligence to do anything else. Let Daddy Govt take care of you, leave all the decisions to daddy Govt, you’re not smart enough to know what you want or need, but Daddy Govt will be there for you.
Idiots.
Gale
August 14th, 2009
8:36 am
Mrs. G, I made the same decision years ago, and chose to deal with menopause without the hormone intervention. For the most part, I view drugs that mess with hormones with great suspicion.
USinUK
August 14th, 2009
8:37 am
“Get a different policy..duh!”
that’s right, Pea-diddly-dog … you just keep on walking and ignore the fact that, if you choose an individual policy on your own, you’re talking about an expense about 3 times higher than you would have if you went on your company policy. (and that’s just for a single policy, if you’re trying to cover your family, the multiple will be even higher)
again, I say … “choice” my sweet patootie … more like a “choice” between a kick in the shins and a poke with a sharp stick
Peadawg
August 14th, 2009
8:40 am
“choice” my sweet patootie
I can’t wait to see what you’re saying when Obamacare starts and you REALLY see how many choices you have now vs when the government takes over insurance.
Joey
August 14th, 2009
8:40 am
Point: How can any reader know, as Jay and some others here know, that Palin did not write the Facebook comment?
USinUK
August 14th, 2009
8:40 am
“So to all you libtards out there, just go on drooling and worshiping your massa, you haven’t the intelligence to do anything else”
wait … wait … don’t tell me … Harvard Debating Team, class of ‘74 …
I thought your well-researched and witty ripost looked familiar …
(Kim – jeremy paxmon, he is not)
Taxpayer
August 14th, 2009
8:42 am
Mrs. Godzilla
August 14th, 2009
8:17 am
WELL FINALLY!
The 1/2 termer has gotten herself some serious staff! Good for her.
How about this for great healthcare reform news:
“”Insurer originally sought 56 percent rate hike, but regulators refused
Michigan insurance regulators have approved a 22 percent increase for group and individual Blue Cross Blue Shield health policies in the state, according to reports published Thursday””
Here:
http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/08/13/blue-cross-of-michigan-to-raise-individul-group-rates-by-22-percent/
We need single payer!
The healthcare insurance issue is only beginning to really get started. Wait until businesses and individuals see what those premiums look like in this fall’s round of renewals and that’s not even the worst of it because all of the losses of premium payers across corporate America have not even been fully factored in yet. Insurance companies are hurting big time and there is only one way for them to continue their greedy ways and that is with huge increases in premiums in conjunction with major cuts in coverage. Hang on and enjoy the ride. This is not over and the GOP is seriously shooting itself in the foot, again, by standing in favor of the status quo. Of course, that’s just a taxpayer’s opinion. By the way, I should take a moment to tell everyone, especially the Republicans, that you are doing a most excellent job. Trust me. I can tell. Don’t change a thing. Be true to your principles.
Finn McCool
August 14th, 2009
8:43 am
Best words of advice I’ve heard from the right wingers:
Actually…go ahead and let him pass this stupid bill. People will realize how bad it is and he will be out of office in 2012.
Paul
August 14th, 2009
8:43 am
If health care reform is going to be a reality, the President needs to get away from lofty theory and get specific with the country and with Congress.
First, stand up to his party. He compromised with Blue Dogs, then the Progressives say ‘if it sticks, we’re out.’ Tell them both to get off their hardcore ideology and compromise.
Second, tell the people, plainly, what concerns they have that will be enacted. Can’t get insurance? Worried about losing your job and your insurance? Sick of paying four times as much for the same coverage as someone in another part of the country? Address it.
Tell the people a single-payer system is not on the table. While most people who have insurance are satisfied with it, that does not mean they don’t recognize the system has problems. It does, they know that and they want it fixed. But they don’t want the uncertainty of being on a path of weakening the coverage they now have.
Tell Pelosi & company, and all the seniors, that he will not tolerate further cuts to Medicare to fund other aspects of reform. Turns out that guy everybody laughed at for saying “keep your gov’t hands off my Medicare” had a point.
Demonstrate leadership, stop the handoffs to Congress and solve the problems of concern to most people. Compromise. Or blow the opportunity and end up with nothing.
Mrs. Godzilla
August 14th, 2009
8:44 am
Gale….
thank mother nature for soy……..
Gale
August 14th, 2009
8:45 am
Joey, Point taken. I have done some ghost writing. Believe it or not, it is harder than you might think to write for someone else and make it seem like they wrote it. It is true, that many people write differently from how they speak. We get the convenience of proof reading and revising, for two things. Anyway, while it is possible Palin wrote that, I still find it unlikely. In the same manner, the president’s speech writers make him seem lots better than he is. I know, they all use speech writes. I can barely listen to either of them without prepared text.
Kim, Nottingham
August 14th, 2009
8:46 am
Libtard. That’s cute. I love these names you Americans come up with for each other (and now us Brits, it seems).
Let’s just look over what you were implying, Bud. You were suggesting the results of an entirely new survey indicating that we might not being prescribed with the right kind of contraceptive pill is evidence of the NHS prescribing the cheapest drugs possible. That is a huge assumption to make and an incorrect one. The NHS will prescribe the drugs they feel will best help their patient.
Contraceptive pills involve playing around with a woman’s hormones. Is it any wonder that they carry risks?