Hawking not only Brit rushing to defend ’socialised medicine’
At first, the British were angry at the thought that we Americans were trying to steal bragging rights to Stephen Hawking. He’s British and always has been British, and the Brits are justifiably proud to count among their number someone who at the very least would be in the running as the world’s smartest man.
But pretty quickly, our friends across the Atlantic also began to bristle at the attacks by the American right on their National Health Service. And interestingly, they’re venting that anger on American blogs, including this one.
The blog item that initially began this international contretemps — “It doesn’t take Stephen Hawking to figure this one out” — continues to draw impassioned defenses of the British system by British citizens who use it.
Those testimonials pretty much obliterate the right-wing argument that the service in unpopular or ineffective. If the Brits were unhappy with the system, I’m sure we’d be hearing that too. But they’re not, so we’re not.
Instead, we’re hearing from Bob Schiff, who says:
I was born in the US but have spent the last 30 years living England and have experienced health care in both countries. I have been under treatment for bowel cancer and secondaries for the last 18 months in the UK under the National Health system.
There is no way I would choose to be treated in US over the UK, based on my experiences of both health systems….
Until 5 years after successful cancer treatment is finished, I will not be able to visit the US, because I will not be able to afford any treatment I might require if I became ill in the US.
Or Irate Briton, who writes to tell us:
“Since so many Americans are taking the name of the NHS in vain, here’s my side of it.
My father died the day before his ninetieth birthday. He had bladder cancer for ten years during which time he had been operated on and had regular cystoscopies. Had the cancer not grown in an unusual way that hid it from the examinations he’d probably still be here.Once he reached the terminal stage he was able to die at home, as he wished, because of the superb support from the NHS and the local government social services. We had specialised equipment, several hospital treatments for the infections that inevitably follow catheterisation, home visits whenever we needed them from his G.P. (doctor) and the district nurses, help with washing and bathing him and a carer for two nights a week for nearly two years to give me some respite, countless medications and the ambulance service even came out to help me get him up when he fell. Apart from a minor financial contribution for the local government care (and even that stopped after a while) what did it cost us? NOTHING!
There is no reason why someone can’t take out private health isurance should they wish to do so, no-one is forced to use the NHS, but no-one who pays the National Insurance contributions or is a British national ever needs to do so unless they want to. I, for one, am immensely grateful to, and proud of, the NHS.”
And then there’s Oli, who tells us:
“Can just say what complete ignoramuses these so-called ‘pundits’ are. Have any of them been to an NHS hospital, have they read the numerous studies, reports and policy documents about the NHS? Hell, have they even been to the UK? I suspect the answer to all these is no, else they would be liars as well as idiots.
As someone who lives in the UK and uses the NHS regularly (Even though my family also is fortunate enough to be able to afford private health cover) I can safely say that everything said by these pundits is an absolute falsehood. The NHS will not abandon you if you are seriously ill, indeed, it is when people have life-threatening conditions when the NHS comes into its own.
Unlike private insurers (Who no matter how much you pay, set a limit on the amount of healthcare costs they’ll pay for) the NHS does not and cannot refuse treatment to people based on cost. If they did there would be a national outcry, and no doubt whoever allowed it to happen would be immediately fired. British healthcare has been ranked amongst the top in industrialised nations, despite being achieved at a far, far lower cost than in the US.
What confuses these editorialists is NICE – the body that decides what drugs and treatments the NHS offers. People keep quoting the example of sutent, a drug for terminal kidney cancer patients – NICE refused to offer it because they thought $49,000 to extend someone’s life by a year was a rip-off on the part of Pfizer. You’d be hard pressed to find a private insurance company, British or American, who would bear that cost for someone who ain’t paying any more premiums.
In fact, an interesting end to the story was that because the NHS is such a bug drugs-buyer, Pfizer lowered the price and the NHS now offers the treatment. The same cannot be said for the big American healthcare companies.
Yes, anti-government rhetoric is very easy to spout all day long. problem is sometimes you’re wrong. The NHS has its issues, like any system, however British taxpayers have been paying for it for 60 years, and even the British Conservative Party has pledged at the next election not to cut health spending despite the hard times we’re in (Polls consistently show levels of support for the NHS at over 80%). The budget for the Department of Health was almost £100 billion in 2007/8 – So either we must have something here or you think we’re all incredibly stupid.”
Go take a look yourself. These are volunteered testimonials from people who know the system intimately, and they are very pleased with it. I certainly don’t think that if circumstances were reversed, you’d find Americans writing to British blogs, telling them how absolutely wonderful the U.S. system of private insurance has been.
Do you?
UPDATE: I should also point out that “#welovethenhs” is the top-trending topic on Twitter. Click here to read NHS testimonials of 140 characters or less.
And again, do you think that in other circumstances, we’d see a sudden, spontaneous outbreak of “#weloveAetna” or “#weloveBlueCross/BlueShield”?
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573 comments Add your comment
Turd Ferguson
August 13th, 2009
7:56 am
So 100% of Brits are just enthralled? Cmon…
TnGelding
August 13th, 2009
8:03 am
Well, some nationalists probably would.
We’re treating the symptoms instead of preventing the disease.
Wolf subbed for Larry King last night and he had an excellent interview with four doctors with different views. I’ll post it when it becomes available.
Doggone/GA
August 13th, 2009
8:05 am
“So 100% of Brits are just enthralled? Cmon…”
Please quote where he said that.
WhoCares
August 13th, 2009
8:06 am
Well hey, if it’s written in THIS blog in the AJC then it MUST be true!
Now everybody line up and drink your kool-aid?
Brad Steel
August 13th, 2009
8:07 am
Both Canadian and British health care systems meet with higher approval levels than the US health care.
But that’s probably because we are a nation of whiners who like complaining about health care when we are not too busy complaining about a mythical recession*. (*Dr. Phil Gramm, Texas senator and republican economic advisor)
Turd Ferguson
August 13th, 2009
8:08 am
Doggone/GA
August 13th, 2009
8:05 am
All we see are glowing report of Britains wonderful HCare…are their no dissenters? Show me where he didnt say that.
On a side note, CONGRATULATIONS to John Edwards!! Lettuce all hope that ObamaCare will take care of his new child!!
Doggone/GA
August 13th, 2009
8:08 am
“Well hey, if it’s written in THIS blog in the AJC then it MUST be true!”
Refute it…if you can.
Ray
August 13th, 2009
8:09 am
Slowly but surely, the unruly Kindergartners of healthcare opposition are being positioned in their chairs.
Be grateful, America, that this rightwing ignorance/arrogance asn’t aflame enough to defeat Medicare…and Social security.
Real shame this latest version of GOP has decided to be the first to absolutely abondon all concern for our country’s future.
Doggone/GA
August 13th, 2009
8:10 am
“All we see are glowing report of Britains wonderful HCare…are their no dissenters? Show me where he didnt say that”
I knew you wouldn’t be able to find a quote to back up your lie.
Shawny
August 13th, 2009
8:10 am
Well, maybe the Brit govt is more efficient than ours. I hope it is. If it is worse, then they’re screwed.
At any rate, Obama said it best when he said, “If you think about it, UPS and FedEx are doing just fine. It’s the Post Office that’s always having problems.” Good analogy. Now put something as important as health in the hands of the fed, and look out.
More here:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/08/13/obamas_hoof-in-mouth_disease_97875.html
@@
August 13th, 2009
8:12 am
jay, the only commenter you’ve outed for posting under multiple names here was a conservative. I wouldn’t expect you to verify the IP addresses of these “so-called brits”.
ain’t???
I’ve talked to many a brit and they’ve NEVER used the word ain’t.
Dueling journalists.
Must be a man-thing.
Doggone/GA
August 13th, 2009
8:12 am
“Well, maybe the Brit govt is more efficient than ours. I hope it is. If it is worse, then they’re screwed.”
Screwed how? Their NHS has been in existence for 60 years, when does the “screwing” start?
Turd Ferguson
August 13th, 2009
8:13 am
So Britains massive HCare is so wonderful that 100% of its citizens are satisfied. Should we not hear from the dissatisfied also? Oh thats right those individuals would be considered the unintellectual mob and/or unpatriotic, so to speak…
Typical Dems…all flash and no substance.
Turd Ferguson
August 13th, 2009
8:14 am
And BTW…AARP has endorsed Zero portions of ObamaCare. Once again Obobo is lying or perhaps his teleprompter misspoke…yea, thats it.
Hardeee har har…
PS…Obobo keeps steppin in it day after day…what a comedy show.
Normal
August 13th, 2009
8:16 am
This is way off topic, but this is also thinking out of the box and ma be just the way to defeat terrorism…
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/08/13/generation.islam.gaza.muppets/index.html
Jay
August 13th, 2009
8:16 am
@@, I haven’t tracked back the individual IP addresses. We have a policy against doing that. But I’ve looked at the aggregate numbers and we’re getting a LOT of visits here from the UK.
WhoCares
August 13th, 2009
8:17 am
“Refute it…if you can”
Sorry but I don’t have to waste my time trying to refute it. I have the mental capacity to make up my own mind and don’t have to rely on Bookman and a bunch of limeys that drink tea without ice to tell me how to think.
Turd Ferguson
August 13th, 2009
8:17 am
“If you think about it, UPS and FedEx are doing just fine. It’s the Post Office that’s always having problems.”
What was that supposed to mean other than the public sector of service is undisciplined, operates in the red, always makes excuses, does things Ace-backwards, is chock full of lazy 50%ers or less etc.
Obobo just subconsciously admitted that Govt can do nothing correctly and/or profitably and ObamaCare will be operated about as efficiently as the Postal service…LMAO!!
Doggone/GA
August 13th, 2009
8:18 am
“So Britains massive HCare is so wonderful that 100% of its citizens are satisfied”
Good boy! You can follow the first rule of the conned quite well: never let a good lie die. You deserve a doggy treat.
Doggone/GA
August 13th, 2009
8:18 am
“Sorry but I don’t have to waste my time trying to refute it”
I knew you wouldn’t be able to.
stands for decibels
August 13th, 2009
8:23 am
Praaahvate INsurance now.
Praaahvate INsurance tomorrow.
Praaahvate INsurance fo-evah!
Gale
August 13th, 2009
8:23 am
I would welcome British-style NHC. But the proposed bill being discussed here is far from that.
Mrs. Godzilla
August 13th, 2009
8:26 am
Reposted from downstairs….I beg your indulgence!
I see that AARP has made no formal emdorsement of the plan.
And now the rest of the story….
Multimillion-Dollar AARP Campaign Busts The Myths Of The Health Care Debate
This week, AARP will launch the next phase of its Health Action Now campaign with a multimillion-dollar national advertising and grassroots push to ensure every American has a choice of doctor and dependable, affordable health insurance. The Association’s paid advertising-available online now-will run nationally on television, locally on radio, in print publications and online. AARP activists will also be in action in every state to ensure every member of Congress knows the 50-plus community wants action to fix what’s wrong with health care and preserve what’s right.
AARP’s advertising campaign will bust the myths some are spreading to frighten Americans, including false assertions that fixing the health care system will lead to rationed health care, a government takeover or even euthanasia.
“We won’t stand idle when opponents of health care reform attempt to scare or mislead the American people-and older Americans in particular-about what fixing the system really means,” said AARP Executive Vice President Nancy LeaMond. “The truth is we need to fix health care, whether it’s ensuring affordable coverage for Americans age 50 to 64 or improving benefits for people in Medicare. It’s time for the public to get the real facts.”
AARP will combine this effort with grassroots action by millions of volunteers and activists. AARP members will visit their representatives and senators in their district offices and attend events in support of health care reform. The Association will also host more than 80 events across the country, including dozens of town hall meetings with legislators and community leaders.
LeaMond added: “The opponents of reform will stop at nothing to derail the process and protect their own vested interests-even if it means misleading older Americans. We’re here to make sure everyone knows the facts and not the myths.”
One of AARP’s new print ads reads: “Special interest groups are trying to block progress on health care reform using myths and scare tactics. Like the myth that health care reform will give the government the power to make life-and-death decisions for everyone. That’s simply false. The fact is, no one, including the government or your insurance company, will be given power to make life-and-death decisions for anyone regardless of their age. Those decisions will be made by you, your doctor and your family.”
This round of advertising is scheduled to run through mid-September in national outlets and in select local markets. Television advertisements will appear on networks including CBS, Fox News Channel, Lifetime and MSNBC, while online ads will appear on web sites including CNN.com and ABCNews.com, as well as social networking sites.
Doggone/GA
August 13th, 2009
8:27 am
“I would welcome British-style NHC. But the proposed bill being discussed here is far from that”
Yes it is…which is why comparisons to either the UK version or the Canadian version are simply promoting lies about the bill being proposed. As are all accusations of “government interference” between the Doctor and patient. Simply lies.
godless heathen
August 13th, 2009
8:27 am
What’s wrong with the Brit’s dental plan then?
Curious Observer
August 13th, 2009
8:27 am
Glad to see that Turd and the other “complete ignoramuses” aren’t going to be perturbed by facts. Yet another version of “I don’t know nothing about art, but I know what I like.”
mike
August 13th, 2009
8:28 am
LOL. Jay just can’t bring himself to actually write an argument for Obama’s health plan can he? He is great at telling us Republicans are evil and stupid. Now he demonstrates that he really think the the UK’s single payer plan is wonderful.
When is he going to tell us why we should like the plan that is being proposed by his party in his country?
Doggone/GA
August 13th, 2009
8:29 am
“I don’t know nothing about art, but I know what I like.”
Except they don’t even know that. They only know what they DON’T like…nevermind that nothing even approaching that has even been proposed. They still don’t like it and will fight against it tooth and nail, and with all the lies they can muster.
Taxpayer
August 13th, 2009
8:29 am
WhoCares
August 13th, 2009
8:06 am
Well hey, if it’s written in THIS blog in the AJC then it MUST be true!
Now everybody line up and drink your kool-aid?
Of course, you have proof of lies written by Bookman. I didn’t think so.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
August 13th, 2009
8:30 am
Well, they may get cheaper doctoring and better results, but I bet we make nicer caskets than them.
Have a good day everybody.
stands for decibels
August 13th, 2009
8:30 am
What’s wrong with the Brit’s dental plan then?
Where, O where, is our mike-with-the-fainting-couch, chastising the use of cruel, bigoted stereotypes?
RW-(the original)
August 13th, 2009
8:30 am
Sounds like astroturf to me Jay B.
Doggone/GA
August 13th, 2009
8:31 am
“LOL. Jay just can’t bring himself to actually write an argument for Obama’s health plan can he?”
It isn’t Obama’s healthcare plan. Healthcare/insurance reform is on his agenda…but it is Congress that is writing the bills and proposals.
“When is he going to tell us why we should like the plan that is being proposed by his party in his country?”
Maybe, just maybe, it would be a good idea to wait until the plan is actually finalzed? Ya think?
TnGelding
August 13th, 2009
8:32 am
Jay
August 13th, 2009
8:16 am
When do you get your raise?
TnGelding
August 13th, 2009
8:35 am
Doggone/GA
August 13th, 2009
8:27 am
But don’t you know, it’s just the first step in getting there?
Donovan
August 13th, 2009
8:35 am
Where does Bookman get this stuff? From the New York Times? If he is so displeased with the current health care system like the rest of his left wing cadre, join the long suffering people in the UK. 93% of the American people are happy with the system in place and the care they receive. Anyone who supports ruining the country for a 7% fix is not one to be seriously considered. Do you want a health care system run by a government who has managed the Post Office, Amtrack, the VA, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, Fannie Mae, and Freddie Mac? This is what happens when Democrats get elected in this country and allows the lunatics to run the insane asylum.
Turd Ferguson
August 13th, 2009
8:36 am
I would be willing to pay twice as much as is pay now than have my forced involvement in this OboboCare debacle.
Just another govt boondoggle frought with theives and incompetents.
TnGelding
August 13th, 2009
8:37 am
mike
August 13th, 2009
8:28 am
There is no “plan.” Here is a comparison of some being considered:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/nation/health/compare-health-plans-2009/?hpid=topnews&referrer=emaillink
Doggone/GA
August 13th, 2009
8:40 am
“But don’t you know, it’s just the first step in getting there?”
Baby steps, baby steps.
Turd Ferguson
August 13th, 2009
8:40 am
OboboCare…what a great idea. Yes…lets offer our seniors, who have served this Country via paying taxes etc and supporting all these malcontents/illegals, with less care and a death panel.
Yes…OboboCare says lets take from MediCare/Caid and give to the indigents of socieity that contribute basically nothing.
TnGelding
August 13th, 2009
8:41 am
Donovan
August 13th, 2009
8:35 am
We were all lunatics after ‘W’ left his mark. We’re trying to restore some sanity.
Doggone/GA
August 13th, 2009
8:42 am
“Do you want a health care system run by a government who has managed ”
Well since that has not even been proposed, I’m sure you’ll excuse me if I don’t get scared.
Taxpayer
August 13th, 2009
8:42 am
I would be willing to pay twice as much as is pay now than have my forced involvement in this OboboCare debacle.
Wait until you get that annual renewal notice. Most companies come out with them in the September/October time frame. Well, what do you know. I think that’s in the same time frame that Congress will be picking up on this topic again. Now, isn’t that good timing.
Doggone/GA
August 13th, 2009
8:42 am
“with less care and a death panel”
Liar.
TnGelding
August 13th, 2009
8:43 am
Turd Ferguson
August 13th, 2009
8:40 am
So now you’re supporting Medicare and Medicaid?
Taxpayer
August 13th, 2009
8:43 am
OboboCare…what a great idea. Yes…lets offer our seniors, who have served this Country via paying taxes etc and supporting all these malcontents/illegals, with less care and a death panel.
Got proof. I didn’t think so.
USinUK
August 13th, 2009
8:44 am
ooooooooo … death panels!!! booga booga!!!
getalife
August 13th, 2009
8:44 am
Yes, the world is watching and they are laughing at our cons.
Mrs. Godzilla
August 13th, 2009
8:44 am
“less care and a death panel”…….there’s your sign!
Adrian Cox
August 13th, 2009
8:44 am
I am British – the moderator/editor can check this from the end of my email address (.co.uk)
To say that we are all lying is just immature. I can tell you that about 95% of Britons think the NHS is a good system. So not 100% because some people can NEVER be satisfied. But could you honestly say that 95% of Americans are satisfied with American healthcare??
Ask ANY British person – you must know some. Even those who don’t like the NHS will tell you they are in the minority. Furthermore, ALL political parties support the NHS.
Furthermore, 8% of Great Britain’s GDP (national income) is spent on health, compared to 15% of US GDP. Yet we get universal care. We don’t have to worry about the cost of getting sick and we all know that if we do get sick, we will be treated.