Town hall protesters forget the lessons of kindergarten
Remember kindergarten and first grade? You may not think you remember — for some of us that was a long time ago — but you do. The lessons are engrained in all of us, or ought to be.
If you want to speak, you raise your hand and take your turn. If you’re talking loudly while the teacher or other students are trying to discuss something, if you disrupt the class, you’ll be told to leave. It’s pretty simple, basic stuff. Literally, kindergarten-level. It also happens to be the bare minimum standard of civil behavior required in a civil society.
And if you cannot behave by those rules, you forfeit your right to participate.
Again, it’s all simple, basic stuff.
The people who are marching into town halls across the country to chant and shout down other voices have not forgotten those rules. They’re just frightened. They’re scared not by health care reform, but by the free and open and civil exchange of facts and opinion. They want their voice — but only their voice — to be heard. It is, they have been told, the only valid voice, the only “real American” voice. They are trying to impose their own point of view through volume and force of emotion and numbers because apparently they do not trust their ability to carry the day in a civil discussion.
The real irony is that many in those crowds believe themselves to be saving America, a holy cause that somehow makes them exempt from the usual rules. Well, America is not defined by how it decides to deliver health care to its people. It’s an important issue, but it is not fundamental to who we are.
From the very beginning, America has been defined by the way it governs itself, by the ability of its people — all of its people — to express their opinions openly and to listen to and speak to those whom they elect to represent them. That is the fundamental thing. That is the thing that must be and will be defended regardless of the outcome of this particular political battle.
The behavior we’re seeing at town halls across the country is childish, petty and destructive to the basic civil contract by which self-government operates. And that petulant childishness is never more apparent than when someone tries to actually enforce the basic rules, when figures of authority or even other Americans insist that the rules of discourse — the rules we all learned as five- and six-year-olds — be honored.
Suddenly these aggressive, loud agitators are transformed, at least in their own minds, into victims of censorship and repression.
Well, two words, ladies and gentlemen: Grow up.
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294 comments Add your comment
Peadawg
August 7th, 2009
8:37 am
1st!
Wake me up when it’s 2012 or (dear god help us) 2016
George American
August 7th, 2009
8:39 am
Take your pick cause the proof is there. This guy is a real clown
Obama is a SOCIALIST – proof: Health Care socialism
Obama is a COMMUNIST – proof: government take-over of banking, GM and AIG
Obama is a FASCIST – proof: the soon to be enacted gun prohibition laws
Gandulf - Second!!!
August 7th, 2009
8:40 am
Just like Idol chat room, Gandaulf is always 1st!
Ben
August 7th, 2009
8:42 am
Jay, people did the exact same thing when Bush toured the country discussing social security reform. I can cite you articles describing shouting protesters drowning out speakers and not letting people talk. And you know what? Social security was not reformed, obnoxiousness worked. So these people at the town hall meetings see how well it worked for your side, and are just using the Sal Alinsky playbook, just like left-wing Astroturf groups like ACORN and ANSWER and MoveOn.org.
These people calmly complained with the first bailout, the second bailout, and with the stimulus, and the government just keeps ignoring them and spending more money. Why should they continue to be calm, it wasn’t working!
And yes, socialist health care, as well as anything that is a trojan horse to socialist health care (and I can cite numerous quotes from Democratic officials saying such) will change who we are as a nation. It’s not American, that’s for damn sure.
Did not Obama exhort us to “Get in their faces and argue with them?” How can you be against people following Obama’s words? Was not Obama a community organizer? How can people complain about Astroturfing when that was his job? And how can people call it astroturfing when these are individual citizens upset about massive changes to our economy being pushed on us with less deliberation than Obama spent picking out a dog?
Peadawg
August 7th, 2009
8:44 am
“So these people at the town hall meetings see how well it worked for your side”
Ben, you didn’t know that it’s ok for Democrats to do it, but not Republicans? Where have you been?
Jay
August 7th, 2009
8:45 am
Ben, if you can cite evidence of widespread disruption of town hall meetings called to discuss Social Security, please, by all means do so.
You go right ahead. You can post that evidence right here, and we’ll wait while you compile it.
So … go ahead.
Finn McCool
August 7th, 2009
8:46 am
Turd, since you are interested in the education of liberal media types, this is for you:
Education
Limbaugh graduated from Cape Central High School, in 1969. His father and mother wanted him to attend college, so he enrolled at Southeast Missouri State University. He dropped out after two semesters and one summer; according to his mother, “he flunked everything”, even a modern ballroom dancing class.[3] As she told a reporter in 1992, “He just didn’t seem interested in anything except radio.”[6]
Draft status
Limbaugh’s birthdate was ranked as 175 in the Vietnam War draft lottery. No one was drafted above 125. He was classified as “1-Y” (later reclassified “4-F”) due to either a football knee injury or a diagnosis of Pilonidal disease.
http://www.wikipedia.com
Now that’s a hero you can stand behind!
I Report (-: You Whine )-:
August 7th, 2009
8:48 am
The democrats are desperate and insulting Americans is not going to solve that.
But it will solve the problems of the Republican Party and the Conservative movement, in the most major way.
Thanks for all of your help, bookman.
Brad Steel
August 7th, 2009
8:48 am
But raising the volume and talking-over anyone who disagrees with you is the only tactic AM radio/Fox News crowd knows.
If you have no solution, raise you voice, posture and threaten. It’s out of the Lord of the Flies playbook.
Finn McCool
August 7th, 2009
8:48 am
When can we start taking away their guns?
Turd Ferguson
August 7th, 2009
8:49 am
Kindergartners? Cmon…both parties are guilty of the same type of behaviors. The only difference would be on issues.
I Report (-: You Whine )-:
August 7th, 2009
8:49 am
Peggy Noonan, finally seeing the light-
What the town-hall meetings represent is a feeling of rebellion, an uprising against change they do not believe in. And the Democratic response has been stunningly crude and aggressive. It has been to attack. Nancy Pelosi, the speaker of the United States House of Representatives, accused the people at the meetings of “carrying swastikas and symbols like that.” (Apparently one protester held a hand-lettered sign with a “no” slash over a swastika.) But they are not Nazis, they’re Americans. Some of them looked like they’d actually spent some time fighting Nazis.
All of this is unnecessarily and unhelpfully divisive and provocative. They are mocking and menacing concerned citizens. This only makes a hot situation hotter. Is this what the president wants? It couldn’t be. But then in an odd way he sometimes seems not to have fully absorbed the awesome stature of his office. You really, if you’re president, can’t call an individual American stupid, if for no other reason than that you’re too big. You cannot allow your allies to call people protesting a health-care plan “extremists” and “right wing,” or bought, or Nazi-like, either. They’re citizens. They’re concerned. They deserve respect.
She’s talking to you, bookman.
AmVet
August 7th, 2009
8:50 am
A beautiful Friday morning!
As always I’m glad to have the great fortune to be both alive and an American.
And glad that for over forty years I’ve had the good sense to not only not be a Republican, but to fight hard against their bassackwards, counter-productive intolerance and myopia.
And help ensure that hopefully they again become the minority party for forty years.
Karma, baby. It’s a real beeotch for the conned these days…
Turd Ferguson
August 7th, 2009
8:51 am
Thanks Finnius McCool but I have never watched nor listened to Limbaughs show. Truth be told Im not that impressed with Hannity either.
Both are way to far right for me.
Thanks for playing…NEXT!
Joey
August 7th, 2009
8:52 am
Jay, Looks like part of you next-to-last paragraph did not get posted. I fixed it.
The behavior we are seeing at these townhall meeting, where the Democrat Goons try to quash anyone who does not agree with Democrat Faux Healthcare is indeed petty and distructive to the basic civil contract by which self-government operates. And that petulant childishness of the Faux Healthcare supporters has never been more apparent.
Brian
August 7th, 2009
8:52 am
Belitte them all you want Jay. They’re not going to go away or stop. It’s only going to worse and they will only get louder. It’s war I tell you!
Mrs. Godzilla
August 7th, 2009
8:53 am
Makes me understand why GOP town halls were pre-screened,
So much neater and cleaner.
Nice and tidy.
Oh, and fake.
I Report (-: You Whine )-:
August 7th, 2009
8:53 am
Somebody please tell me how bookman can reconcile this statement with the column he just wrote-
White House to Democrats: ‘Punch back twice as hard’
I would love to know.
Mrs. Godzilla
August 7th, 2009
8:55 am
Finn
Don’t ya’ know…conservatives never admit to watching Rush or Sean or
Bill……
Finn McCool
August 7th, 2009
8:56 am
Yeah, Mrs. Godzy, remember how Bush’s campaign speeches were always without any protesters? The protesters had been turned away and sent packing.
Only the mindless tools were allowed in to hear the speeches.
Mrs. Godzilla
August 7th, 2009
8:58 am
Finn
I remember all it took was the wrong bumper sticker on your car to get you kept out of a GOP rally…….
joe matarotz
August 7th, 2009
8:58 am
I guess the Dems refuse to believe that people are truly angry about Obama’s health care sham, I mean, plan.
Ben
August 7th, 2009
8:58 am
Hey Jay, here’s one I found after 30 seconds of looking:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132×1699548
Do you want more?
Mrs. Godzilla
August 7th, 2009
8:58 am
Finn
and the caged “free speech zones” at the RNC????
Brad Steel
August 7th, 2009
8:59 am
Peggy Noonan and the Whiner have much different standards when it comes to political aspersions for Democrats. Or maybe fascist, communist or socialist don’t count.
Finn McCool
August 7th, 2009
8:59 am
Don’t ya’ know…conservatives never admit to watching Rush or Sean or
Bill……
And you know they are taping every episode. Perhaps they play them back when the cialis fails to work?
Mrs. Godzilla
August 7th, 2009
9:00 am
BEN
did Rick SCott bus them in?
Davo
August 7th, 2009
9:01 am
Nice job, Bookman. When you actually bother to put effort into a column it can be interesting; and in this case quite true.
Nothing is gained by chanting stupid slogans or banging on windows except to give your opposition ammo to fire back at you; case in point…the leftists are now the ‘conspiracy theorists’ when it comes to these events. They think it’s some massive effort on the part of obscure lobbyists when in fact the majority is citizens concerned with the direction of our country. Politics as usual…and I thought Obama was going to do something about that, right? Too busy printing money I guess.
Ben
August 7th, 2009
9:01 am
Someone probably did bus them in, unlike the people protesting at town hall meetings now, who are concerned citizens, not bought and paid for by ACORN and like.
Turd Ferguson
August 7th, 2009
9:02 am
Godzee grasping at straws…lol.
I do watch Bill occassionaly thats fact.
Since Hannity ditched Combs or however it played out I do not watch any longer.
Rush is and has always been Rush.
You Dems are getting more desparate by the day.
TGT
August 7th, 2009
9:02 am
As I pointed out last night:
Contrast the “mob” activity of those opposed to Obamacare with the activity of radical homosexuals and their supporters (part of the backbone of today’s Democratic Party) after Californians voted in support of Prop. 8. Where were the cries of the “bully” and “Nazi” (or “grow up”) by liberals when democracy presented them with an outcome they did not like? Liberals seem perfectly comfortable adopting the very tactics they claim to abhor as long as it serves their purposes.
Mrs. Godzilla
August 7th, 2009
9:02 am
Yep, they never watch ‘em…..
most frequently heard word there yesterday….snitch…..have we heard that recently here?
hmmmmm..
Jay
August 7th, 2009
9:03 am
Heckling and catcalls? That’s the best you got, Ben?
righty
August 7th, 2009
9:03 am
As usual, the left can dish it out but they can’t take it.
Where were they when Rep. Tancredo had to be escorted out of UNC while protestors smashed windows and doors trying to interrupt him? Where were they when Cindy Sheehan had the nerve to protest in front of Bush’s ranch after he was out of office (when there was nothing he could do about it)? They also did not seem to have any problem with the obnoxious anti-war protestors several years ago; in fact, I believe it was Hillary Clinton who said that “dissent is patriotic”.
Of course what do you expect from a crowd that turns their noses up at citizens organizing legally against higher taxes as “teabaggers”?
“From the very beginning, America has been defined by the way it governs itself, by the ability of its people — all of its people — to express their opinions openly and to listen to and speak to those whom they elect to represent them. That is the fundamental thing. That is the thing that must be and will be defended regardless of the outcome of this particular political battle.”
Make sure to follow your own advice. When the elected representatives are not listening to the people through traditional means, what is left except to “get in their face”? Calling them has not worked, demonstrating away from them has not worked, and apparently even trying to legally protest against them at a townhall meeting that they put together for their constituents who they are not listening to has not worked. The people want to be heard, and until they can make the loudest statement possible at the ballot box, they must find someway to get through to representatives who apparently have better things to do than read and understand the bills they are voting for or listen to genuinely concerned Americans.
Prez Barry Obobo
August 7th, 2009
9:04 am
Listen up Americans. You ALL need to stop acting so Stupidly. Im the man, have always been the man and will continue to be the man. My stooges, Reid, Pelosi and Frank are well educated people who know what needs to be done in this Country.
You ALL WILL ASSIMILATE or pay the price. Now that you can take to the bank.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
August 7th, 2009
9:06 am
Well, I wish Bookman never brought up school and the way the teachers made us behave. I was real glad to leave there in my senior year in the 5th grade after I outgrowed my seat and turned 16.
Anyhow, I say shout the librul Democrats down. Make them give up this health care stuff and its unChristian ways. The Bible never said nothing about taking care of kids and the poor and the bums without jobs. The Bible is nothing but Capitalism. The very first book in it has God saying you’ll have to earn your bread by the sweat of your brow. If you don’t earn your bread or enough of it, well, you’re going against God’s Word. It ain’t my job to pay for your health care.
Anyways, we’re getting a late start fishing today on account of so much fog up here. Joe Bill says the fog is good because the fish can’t see us up above them, but I ain’t going out in a boat when I can’t see where I am or where I’m going. I’ll check in on the wrangling late today to see if anybody’s busted the innernet tube to keep the other side from saying anything. It’s the American Way, you know. Have a good day everybody and don’t worry about your beer being there at Miller Time. Bob Ed Boggess is probly loading it up right now.
Mrs. Godzilla
August 7th, 2009
9:08 am
No cookies and milk for the town hall baggers…..put ‘em in time out!
Gandalf, the Wise
August 7th, 2009
9:08 am
CONCERNED CITIZENS ASK HARD QUESTIONS! IT’S A RIGHT WING CONSPIRICY!
Gandalf, the Wise
August 7th, 2009
9:09 am
Mrs. G? STFU with your moronic comments please. Thanks you!
Peadawg
August 7th, 2009
9:09 am
Bookman, Ben gave you proof, just like you asked, and you still bash him. lol
jt
August 7th, 2009
9:09 am
There COULD be “asroturf like” elements involved in some of these meetings, but there is nothing illegal about that.
I beleive the majority of the protestors are sincere in their disgust at our leaders.
You can blame the protestors, you can blame the counter-protestors, and you can blame the smart ones like me(the counter-counter-protestors), but the whole problem is the leadership and how this bill/kerfluffle has been handled from the start. President Obama and the Democratic leadership in both houses own this baby.
President Obama is going to end up hurting the Democrat party as bad as President Bush did his.
I can’t wait for the “cap-n-tax” bill. Sheesh.
Will it come to April 26, 1992
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-LB94Kwlws
Gandalf, the Wise
August 7th, 2009
9:10 am
Jay I see you are writing right from the left wing talking points this morning! Thanks! How long before you go “fishing” again?
Prez Barry Obobo
August 7th, 2009
9:10 am
Attention idiots in Tampa FL. Its THE MAN here and am respectfully requesting you all return to your homes in a peaceful manner and cease acting to STUPIDLY.
Should you choose otherwise I have the authority and will use said authority to send in the National Guard.
IM THE MAN!!
Ben
August 7th, 2009
9:11 am
I could find more, but I have a job, and need to do some work. I’ll email you several moer Jay. But consider the source… Democratic Underground. They would call murder hceckling and catcalls rather than impugn Democrats.
Mrs. Godzilla
August 7th, 2009
9:11 am
‘dalfie
you handsome devil…you have such a way with words….
i bet all the goats go for that kinda’ sweet talk.
RB from Gwinnett
August 7th, 2009
9:14 am
Jay, I think most of the AJC’s customers have had about enough of you calling us a childish mob while completely ignoring the people who disrupt speaches on college campuses by conservative speakers. It’s intellectually dishonest, Jay. Can you at least attempt to be a true professional at your job once in a while?
For the record, I don’t condone disruptive behavior at these events, but I also see more and more of our government “leaders” totally unwilling to listen to the people or even engage in dialog. They’re unwilling to accept this healthcare plan for themselves, they vote themselves regular raises, fly around in taxpayer provided private jets, refuse to enact term limits on themselves, and have essentially deemed themselves to be the ruling class and to hell with the rest of us. This arrogance (on both sides of the aisle) needs to stop.
And Jay needs to stop with the childish shout down tactics and be a professional for a change.
Who You Gonna Call
August 7th, 2009
9:14 am
Mrs. Godzilla
August 7th, 2009
8:53 am
Makes me understand why GOP town halls were pre-screened,
So much neater and cleaner.
Nice and tidy.
Oh, and fake.
I get a kick out of these GOP reps and their town hall meetings. They actually do try to arrange these things such that they only hear what they want to hear and if someone tries to present an opposing view, they really do get all emotional and defensive and boisterous. So, you take that predictable behavior and run with it. You fight back but not in the way that those of the war monger mentality expect.
Donovan
August 7th, 2009
9:15 am
Childishness? Listen to the voice of liberalism. My dear friends…Bookman is the voice of America’s internal enemy. What we are witnessing is the displeasure of America’s grass root electorate. It is the emotional cry of a fed-up public with the antics of a left wing agenda. It is the long awaited result of being able to voice their opinons about the irresponsible practices of a Democrat controlled government. Bookman follows the elitist game plan of chastizing those that oppose the liberal point of view. When the liberal Obamination of this country is challenged he and his associates use character assassination and scorn to counter their opposition. These emotional town hall meetings are a barometer of the public’s distain for the congressional lunacy being perpetrated on the American people. Fast track bills, unread bills, and down your throat congressional priorities are bitter pills to swallow; let alone, suspicious to the American people. We are hardly childish in our reaction to what Bookman and his ilk are selling us.
Ben
August 7th, 2009
9:16 am
Before I get back to work, here’s more.
http://thenextright.com/jon-henke/protests-2008-vs-2005
And, FYI, the people protesting now are heckling and catcalling and drowning out speakers, but they are not doing more. They are not throwing bricks or being violent. So don’t act like what’s going on now is worse than what I am citing, it’s the same thing, just from a point of view you disagree with.
USinUK
August 7th, 2009
9:17 am
“What we are witnessing is the displeasure of America’s grass root electorate…”
… fed on manure
there. completed your sentence for you.