The shameless scaremongering on the euthanasia issue
Let’s take a look at one of the more egregious fabrications being peddled about proposed health-care reform, the charge that HR 3200, the House reform bill, mandates euthanasia counseling or will even lead to mandatory euthanasia.
For example, we have columnist Pat Buchanan, who in a piece headlined “Time to Go, Grampa” poses the following question:
“… is not the logical purpose of paying doctors for house calls to the terminally ill, whose medical costs are killing Medicare, to suggest a pleasant and early exit from a pain-filled and costly life?”
“The logic remains inexorable,” he concludes. “If government intends to “bend the curve” of rising health care costs, and half of those costs are incurred in the last six months of life, and physician-counselors will be sent to the seriously ill to advise them of what costs will no longer be covered, and what their options are — what do you think is going to be Option A?”
In other words, we’re going to kill off old people to save money.
In the video below, that charge is made explicitly by a speaker for “Patients First,” the health-care arm of the conservative group “Americans for Prosperity,” explaining the forced euthanasia issue to a crowd in Pueblo, Colorado. (Among the directors of Americans for Prosperity is Georgia’s own Jim Stephenson, president and CEO of Yancey Bros. Co.)
As you’ll see, the speaker explicitly warns that passage of HR 3200 will lead to mass murders on the scale conducted by Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot. This is the garbage people are being fed; this is the garbage that too many of them are ready to believe and are responding to out of fear and anger.
Take a look.
And then we have Erick Erickson, the founder of the conservative RedState blog, who attacks the AARP for daring to embrace the Obama health care plan and for telling its members that the scare talk about euthanasia isn’t true.
“The (AARP’s) corresponding email campaign says one of the myths is that the healthcare plan promotes ‘euthanasia’, which it objectively does — as even members of Congress say in unguarded moments,” Erickson writes. Interestingly, Erickson does not quote these unnamed members of Congress in these unguarded moments.
He then goes on to ask: “Does the AARP’s members know about the endorsement of a healthcare plan that requires seniors to get instruction every five years on assisted suicide — a fact the AARP calls a “myth”?
Now, as Steve Benen of Washington Monthly points out, AARP has some pretty sharp lobbyists. They certainly know what’s in the bill. Erickson would have his readers believe that the AARP is endorsing a bill that would lead to forced euthanasia of old people or at the very least mandatory counseling that endorses the concept of euthanasia.
That’s the position of opponents to HR 3200. Now let’s come back into reality and see what it really does. In reality, it merely adds counseling on such matters as living wills, etc. — the kind of document that Terri Schiavo did not have — to the list of procedures that will be covered by Medicare. It no more mandates that counseling than it mandates knee replacement, which Medicare also covers.
The particular section of the bill in question is here. The bill in its entirety is available here.
Now, if someone were to ask about this topic at one of those townhalls around the country, what do you think would happen to the speaker who tried to tell the truth about the bill? Would the explanation even be allowed to be stated? Or would it be drowned out in a chorus of boos and chants of “Read the bill!”
Read the bill indeed.
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114 comments Add your comment
RW-(the original)
August 7th, 2009
3:48 pm
Ummm Jay B…why don’t you fire that off to the snitch line stat! flag@whitehouse.gov to be exact.
And you don’t have to worry about opponents getting into town halls now that you have armies of union thugs assaulting them before they can get in.
stands for decibels
August 7th, 2009
3:50 pm
it merely adds counseling on such matters as living wills, etc. — the kind of document that Terri Schiavo did not have — to the list of procedures that will be covered by Medicare. It no more mandates that counseling than it mandates knee replacement, which Medicare also covers.
Thing is, I think most conservatives have sussed this out by now, Erick “I’m such a shameless pig” Erickson notwithstanding.
It’s not exactly in human nature to own up to your own gullibility though, so…
RW-(the original)
August 7th, 2009
3:51 pm
“Go out and talk to your friends and talk to your neighbors. I want you to talk to them whether they are independent or whether they are Republican. I want you to argue with them and get in their face,” Senator Obama told his supporters on the campaign trail in fall of 2008.
By dismissing the anger of conservatives, moderates, libertarians, conservative democrats and independents the administration looks out of touch and appallingly arrogant. In fact, it will hurt them even more because Obama promised to listen to the concerns of the citizens, not operate with a tin ear.
Finn McCool
August 7th, 2009
3:52 pm
Why MSNBC employs Pat I haven’t a clue. Rachel Maddow schools him all the time.
Zeddicus Zu'l Zorander
August 7th, 2009
3:53 pm
Here’s a little rebuttal for your Friday traveling music with lyrics so you can sing along. Heavy on the propaganda this week Jay.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFJlaVk3ht8
How’s it feel to be so black?
How’s it feel to be so white?
How’s it feel to worry about things
And never, never know who’s wrong or right
Looking at things on the other side
Have you got everything or only your pride, well?
Back off brother
Why don’t you live and let live, just like any other?
Back off brother
‘Cause, I don’t owe you nothin’ and
I don’t want nothin’ from you
Mr. Preacher, man he act so good
Umm, says he don’t but I know he would
Stick his head up the hole of love
And forget about the Lord above
Looking at things on the other side
Flames of hell gonna burn his hide
Back off brother
Why don’t you live and let live just like any other?
Back off brother
I said, I don’t owe you nothin’ and
I don’t want nothin’ from you
Woo, bring it on baby
Haha, one monkey don’t start no show, now
Woo, listen up
Back off
The committee want to rate my song
Back off
Woo, do won’t leave well enough alone
Back off
Umm, but my time will come and theirs will pass
Back off
Haha, Uncle Sam kiss my a$$
Back off brother
Why don’t you live and let live just like any other?
Back off brother
‘Cause I don’t owe you nothin’ and
I don’t want nothin’ from you
Back off brother
Why don’t you live and let live just like any other?
Back off brother
I said, I don’t owe you nothin’
Back off brother
Yeah
Back off brother
Ooh, I’m talkin’ to you
Back off brother
Let me hear you sing it
Back off brother
I said, I don’t owe you nothin’
Back off brother
Let me hear you sing it
Back off brother
Umm, yeah
Back off brother
Don’t owe you nothin’ baby
Back off brother
Woo, hey, one monkey don’t start no show
mike
August 7th, 2009
3:55 pm
I find it interesting that none of the bill’s supporters have much interest in making the case for the bill’s passage. Instead pundits like Jay and officials like Pelosi are much more interested in attacking conservative pundits and protesters.
What Jay and other members of the left are doing is playing right into the hands of the bill’s opponents. The plan is very unpopular with the American people and has been for quite some time now. Jay and Pelosi whining about pundits and protesters is not going to change this fact. What Jay and Pelosi need to do is start making a case for their policies and changing voters’ minds instead giving us their tired spin about why conservatives are bad.
It’s not as if Pelosi’s spurious claims about swastikas are going to carry any weight with voters. She is more than 10 points less popular than Cheney or the Congress.
mike
August 7th, 2009
3:56 pm
Finn –
“Why MSNBC employs Pat I haven’t a clue. Rachel Maddow schools him all the time.”
And your hyper-partisan peers on the right think exactly the converse. Yawn.
RW-(the original)
August 7th, 2009
4:00 pm
mike,
While it’s true that the bulk of Jay B’s latest foray into this topic attacks conservatives he is making at least a tiny case for the bill’s passage. He says it doesn’t mandate euthanasia so let’s do it!
I think the new campaign for the bill should be “HR3200 won’t kill old folks, it’ll kill all of you”
I Report (-: You Whine )-:
August 7th, 2009
4:04 pm
Euthanasia by rationing is something you should truly worry about, despite what bookman’s scaremongering column says.
ByteMe
August 7th, 2009
4:05 pm
Jay, are the rantings in the video considered Friday’s travelin’ music? If so, they need to get a better beat.
Finn McCool
August 7th, 2009
4:06 pm
Mike: I find it interesting that none of the bill’s supporters have much interest in making the case for the bill’s passage.
It’s called TOWN HALL MEETINGS!! Pay attention. What have we been talking about all week?
Brad Steel
August 7th, 2009
4:08 pm
We get some genius irony from RW (apparently, he’s needs a trademark on his initials) with this excerpt: …armies of union thugs assaulting them before they can get in.
And if they don’t get assaulted the HR 3200 will insure that they are executed just like Stalin, Hitler, and Pol Pot did it!!!
Don’t believe you’ll be assaulted or executed? Just read RW’s manifesto or listen to man in the video or Glenn Beck
Zeddicus Zu'l Zorander
August 7th, 2009
4:11 pm
Wizard’s First Rule
People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want to believe it’s true, or because they are afraid it might be true. People’s heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true. People are stupid; they can only rarely tell the difference between a lie and the truth, and yet they are confident they can, and so are all the easier to fool.
RW-(the original)
August 7th, 2009
4:13 pm
Silly Bradly, the would be RW-(the original)™
Finn McCool
August 7th, 2009
4:15 pm
Here’s your case for health care reform:
When people start dying in the Fall from H1N1 you are going to wish your kids went to school where ALL the kids had health insurance.
nana
August 7th, 2009
4:17 pm
I have been able to read some of this bill and it’s very confusing. I’m not sure any of the people pushing this have read it. In fact one of those people said it would take two days and two lawyers to read, insinuating that he (they) shouldn’t have to read the bills. Well if that’s the case why not just flip a coin. One of my many questions is if it is such a great bill and so good for us Americans why aren’t the politicians going to have the same healthcare coverage that they think is so great for us??
You don't know the reasons? Wake up!
August 7th, 2009
4:18 pm
Medical care is inflating at twice the CPI rate. Currently our health care, the highest per capita in the world but with no mixed results, are 1/6th of the economy. Ten years ago it was half that ratio.
If nothing is done, which is the republican proposal, health care cost will be 1/3 of our GDP in another ten years. That’s good for health care companies. It sucks for everyone else. To say nothing of what it will do to what are truly the real Americans (not Palin defined real Americans), it will cripple the US economy.
Finn McCool
August 7th, 2009
4:18 pm
Al Davis isn’t looking so stupid for passing on Michael Crabtree now, is he?
Dude wants 4th pick money even though he was a 10th pick.
John Galt Jr.
August 7th, 2009
4:18 pm
Electing Obama was the best thing that could happen to the conservative party. People now see what liberalism really is. Americans all over the country are waking up. AARP members are waking up. Jewish Americans are waking up. It is great watching the socialist party of America self destruct. Obama has done in 7 months to his own party what Republicans could never do. Damn this is good.
Taxpayer
August 7th, 2009
4:18 pm
Actually, the bill does mandate euthanasia but only for conservative Republicans. It’s in the fine print.
Brad Steel
August 7th, 2009
4:20 pm
RW, you have the originality of a Chinese DVD.
Taxpayer
August 7th, 2009
4:23 pm
AARP members are waking up.
At about this time every day, John. That’s hardly a revelation.
John Galt Jr.
August 7th, 2009
4:24 pm
Euthanasia is a good thing. Lets start with California and New York, work our way around to the rest of the northeast states. Don’t forget Obama’s Science Czar is for Eugenics. Can you say Stalin anyone?
Taxpayer
August 7th, 2009
4:24 pm
Brad,
Are those the DVDs from WuMart.
mike
August 7th, 2009
4:25 pm
RW –
I wouldn’t say it was an argument in favor of the bill at all. It is just another polemic about the flaws of conservatives.
Finn –
“It’s called TOWN HALL MEETINGS!! Pay attention. What have we been talking about all week?”
First of all, Jay and the rest of the liberal pundacracy are not speaking at these town halls. They speak from their various soapboxes and none of them are giving arguments in favor of the bill. They are telling us that conservatives are bad, just like they do about every issue.
Second of all, even if these town halls are well attended, the participants reflect a tiny percentage of voters. When Nancy Pelosi, the architect of the reform bill, speaks to the national audience, she makes absurd claims that the protesters are coming with swastikas.
Telling their partisan offices about the supposed moral flaws of conservatives may play to Pelosi and Jay’s core audience, but they were already convinced. The bill’s prospects would be better served if the left would take the high ground and making coherent arguments for it. Instead, they want to wallow on the same level as the right’s most partisan pundits and he GOP’s most cynical politicians.
L. Ron Hoover
August 7th, 2009
4:26 pm
Why does every pseudo-intellectual right wing hack lionize Ayn Rand. You guys are worse than Scientologist and make less sense.
And although the deduction is insipid, as Galtie Jr. admits, the republicans are the party of the impotent and inept: Obama has done in 7 months to his own party what Republicans could never do.
N.J.
August 7th, 2009
4:27 pm
Always the case. Polls right now indicate that over 70 percent of Americans want the public option. The Republicans, as always are misreading the polls.
Doctors are pushing the latest Senate Bill which is for a Single Payer option that has more coverage than HR 3200.
The one think Obama is failing to point out is how leaving health insurance IN the private sector will drive up the deficit. Not because of the uninsured only but because of the direct and indirect subsidies the government provides to employers for providing the care, plus the tax deductions businesses take for giving it, plus the non taxable nature of income granted as benefits. The direct and indirect subsidies come to 60 percent of the current 2.5 trillion or about 1.3 trillion dollars a year in subsidies. In some cases the government just gives money to businesses that self insure. Other cases are grants that are not directly related to the health care. In the next few years the total cost of health care is estimated to reach 4 trillion. Government will be subsidizing more than two trillion of that.
The government could provide the existing coverage and replace it with the same plan that Senators and Congressmen get for the amount they shell out in subsisization. That would also include complete dental coverage. As it stands today, more than 50 percent of all doctors support a single payer bill that cuts out the insurance industry completely and only 32 percent completely oppose it.
This is way up from 2002 when 49 percent supported and 40 percent opposed. And Doctors have just forced a single payer amendment onto HR 3200. The amendment deletes language from HR 3200 and replaces it with the Single Payer language from Denis Kucinich’s and John Conyer’s HR 636.
Overall the trillion dollar plans will eliminate much of the government subsidization of employer based health care and over ten years cut the cost of health care in half while INCREASING access to health care. Everyone will have DENTAL as a part of their basic health insurance, not as a separate package. The government currently subsidizes much more per year than the entire cost of this plan over a ten year period.
mike
August 7th, 2009
4:28 pm
“You don’t know the reasons? Wake up!” -
You are making a general argument for health care reform, not the bill in question. Most Americans agree that there is a need for some kind of health care reform, they just think that this is not the right plan.
It’s kind of like liberals agreed in 2002 that the situation in Iraq was not a good one, but that doesn’t mean that they needed to agree with Bush’s prescription.
RW-(the original)
August 7th, 2009
4:29 pm
I wouldn’t say it was an argument in favor of the bill at all. It is just another polemic about the flaws of conservatives.
mike,
Somehow I would have thought you would have seen the sarcasm in my comment.
Taxpayer
August 7th, 2009
4:29 pm
Hey, what about healthcare proposals from our conservative Republicans. That 700 billion dollar corporate giveaway that the doctor from Georgia offered up might be a good place to start. Let’s see what you conservative Republicans got. Tell us all about it.
@@
August 7th, 2009
4:29 pm
Ahhh……..don’t think so, jay. If it’s a government-run healthcare, it’d be like opening up a can of gummy worms. No recourse against the government if living or dead. I hate to keep bringing this up:
Dignitas under investigation for ‘profiteering’ from assisted suicide patients
Dignitas, which is meant to be a non-profit organisation, is being forced to open its accounts to prosecutors in Switzerland and disclose how much money it is receiving from its controversial business of assisting suicide.
The founder of the group is reported to have become a millionaire by helping at least 870 terminally ill people – an estimated 100 of whom were British – die. It is said to have taken as much as £61,000 from one woman, 10 times its usual fee.
Swiss law allows Dignitas to provide patients with a dose of barbiturate and a room in which their deaths are filmed, to prove they administered the lethal injection. But it remains illegal to help someone die for personal gain.
The law exists to stop people persuading wealthy relatives to kill themselves in order to claim an inheritance.
“But if Dignitas can also be shown to have selfish motives, it could be in a lot of trouble,” a legal source said.
According to the Swiss newspaper Blick, the head of Dignitas, Ludwig Minelli, has so far failed to hand over the books, claiming he needs to transfer them from old computer software.
He said: “As soon as I find enough time I’ll do it. If the state prosecution feels I’m making myself rich, they should start legal proceedings.”
It is the latest in a series of scandals to hit the clinic since it began operating in 1998.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/4160472/Dignitas-under-investigation-for-profiteering-from-assisted-suicide-patients.html
Profit in savings?
radiowxman
August 7th, 2009
4:33 pm
Coming from the people whose election playbook has “Tell old people that the republicans will take their Social Security away” set in stone, I find this quite amusing.
mike
August 7th, 2009
4:33 pm
NJ –
“Always the case. Polls right now indicate that over 70 percent of Americans want the public option. The Republicans, as always are misreading the polls.”
I don’t think the public option is the problem with independents. It is the cost/benefit analysis:
“By significant margins, survey respondents said they believe the final health-reform legislation is likely to raise health-care costs in the long run (62%), make everything about health care more complicated (65%) and offer less freedom to choose doctors and coverage (56%).”
http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1913426,00.html
it seems that it is the left that has the tin ear for polls. If you guys want to get this thing to pass, your leaders need to start convincing people that your plan can be paid for and that the resulting health care system will be demonstrably better for them.
N.J.
August 7th, 2009
4:34 pm
Even better, the man who was Obama’s doctor opposed Obama’s plan, not because it goes too far but because it does not go far enough. Obama’s doctor wants to kick the insurance bums out of the picture completely.
Doctors, who are most in the know about how screwed up the insurance system is, as well as how rich the insurance companies are getting not just off of patients, but off of government subsidization of their industry want the insurance companies out, which is why they support Denis Kucinich and John Conyer’s comprehensive HR 676 rather than the current HR 3200, as well as the Senate’s single payer bill:
Obama’s Former Doctor Opposes Health Care Plan, Calls for Single-Payer System
President Obama’s former doctor, David Scheiner, is calling for a single-payer health care system, arguing that it would reduce costs by cutting out administrative costs.
Opposition to President Obama’s plan to overhaul the health care system is getting personal.
Obama’s former doctor, David Scheiner, is among the growing number of opponents to the president’s health care plan, he says because it doesn’t go far enough in having government run the system.
Scheiner, who treated Obama for more than two decades in Chicago, is calling for a government-run program like Medicare, arguing that it would reduce costs by cutting out administrative costs.
“We know under single-payer, eventually people will pay less,” Scheiner said Thursday during a news conference at the National Press Club.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/07/30/obamas-doctor-opposes-health-care-plan-calls-single-payer/
Wes
August 7th, 2009
4:34 pm
Jay,
I recognize that this deceit is completely inappropriate.
Do you believe that this bill will be revenue neutral? Do you believe that this is intended to be a final result or merely a step on the path to a government-only provided health care?
On a separate note wouldn’t it be reasonable to just let the states decide this for themselves? If Massachusetts is capable of doing it on their own, doesn’t that speak to each state being able to decide this matter without the Federal government getting involved?
mike
August 7th, 2009
4:34 pm
RW –
My bad
Finn McCool
August 7th, 2009
4:35 pm
Mike, I said it early today. If you have family who are scared or concerned about health care it’s your civic and family duty to explain what the consequences of the bill are.
Why do you want politicians doing it? Take some responsibility. Doesn’t this goes right back to the conservative argument that some types of education should be done in the family – sex ed, manners, health, financial strategy, etc? When your kid gets sick do you send them to school anyway and tell the school nurse to take care of it?
You sound like how you describe us liberals: always wanting someone else to take responsibility. Always lookin for someone else to do the heavy lifting. blah blah blah.
Read the bill, explain it truthfully, and settle their fears. Quite simple.
Taxpayer
August 7th, 2009
4:35 pm
“Tell old people that the republicans will take their Social Security away”
In case you have not been paying attention, the Republicans emptied the trust fund and left their IOU. So, it looks like the Dems were just telling the truth.
mike
August 7th, 2009
4:35 pm
NJ –
“Even better, the man who was Obama’s doctor opposed Obama’s plan, not because it goes too far but because it does not go far enough. ”
Hmm. I’m not certain if inclusion in Obama’s inner circle provides much credibility. Maybe we should ask Rev. Wright what he thinks
Mr. Snarky
August 7th, 2009
4:37 pm
Wow. I guess I shouldn’t be shocked, but it’s still surprising to see such baldfaced lies being spread. What the speaker says and what’s in the bill (I clicked on Jay’s link but it was broken, so I searched myself and found the bill and section on Thomas) are two completely different things.
These lying liars are a cancer on our society and must be exposed.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
August 7th, 2009
4:37 pm
Well, it’s just a danged shame all these Drs. are going to be showing up at houses and giving Grandpa and Grandma a little shot. The only good news about it is it solves the Social Security problem. Us Conservatives hate Social Security so much I reckon we’ll take just about any other choice.
I sure hope this bill includes pay for Baptist preachers to show up with the Drs. You need to be sure people are Saved before you put them down for the count. It ain’t right just to haul off and juice them before you’re sure they’re Right with the Lord.
I see this Sanford guy finally saw his wife move out and leave him. Well, I say good for her. We might could put up with him running around with somebody from another state, but this going overseas to fool around is just too much. Besides, he’s ruining the Republican name. Just when we got rid of this Foley guy that was writting love notes to pages and then had to deal with the guy doing the toe tapping in the airport rest room and then read about the Vitter guy paying Women of the Night to spank him in his diaper and then come this Ensign getting his Daddy to pay off the woman he was running around with, along comes this Sanford.
If this keeps up people will forget all about this Barney Frank and the House of Ill Repute he run and Clinton and the intern. They’ll think we’re a party of Godly Perverts and we won’t never going to be able to talk about Fambly Values.
Have a good p.m. everybody.
GOP is gone
August 7th, 2009
4:38 pm
This is the epitome of ignorance. Living Wills are a necessity people. Unless you want to lie in a bed with tubes down your nose or in you abdomen, a ventilator breathing for you while you develop sepsis from either a bedsore or a urinary tract infection GET A LIVING WILL PEOPLE. Life needs to be measured by the quality of being, not sustained breathing by a machine.
Now if that is what you WANT then so be it. But please at least volunteer at an extended living center that has a higher level of care, one where you can see for yourself how the trach gets suctioned, change some diapers and do a little wound care on the inevitable huge sacral decubitus. It might shed some light on the subject for you. Life ends. I thought you might want to meet your savior and be in heaven instead of a hell on Earth for a few more years.
N.J.
August 7th, 2009
4:42 pm
“I don’t think the public option is the problem with independents. It is the cost/benefit analysis:
“By significant margins, survey respondents said they believe the final health-reform legislation is likely to raise health-care costs in the long run (62%), make everything about health care more complicated (65%) and offer less freedom to choose doctors and coverage (56%).”
The one thing that is being left out of the cost benefit analysis is the current rate of subsidization of the private employer based system which is growing by leaps and bounds every year. By 2013 it will take the entire budget of the United States to subsidize the 58 percent of workers who get covered by their employers at the expense of the working taxpayers who have no coverage at all, and they make up over 98 percent of the uncovered.
The problem is that the elephant in the room is being left out. Both the subsidization and insurance company profits WILL be paid for by the taxpayers anyway through the government subsidizations of private employee based health care.
As it stands today, employers aggregate only pick up 20 percent of the cost of insuring an employee. The employee picks up about the same amount. This leaves the government paying for the other 60 percent. That is how the system works right now. There are direct grants as well as indirect grants which require the employer to use part of them to pay for employee health care. Its an immensely inefficient system in which huge chunks of money which could be used to pay for health care are being siphoned off to pay for corporate jets, bonuses, golf courses and the occasional prostitute.
mike
August 7th, 2009
4:46 pm
Finn –
“If you have family who are scared or concerned about health care it’s your civic and family duty to explain what the consequences of the bill are.”
I don’t disagree. My point is that attacks on conservatives by liberal pundits and Democrat leaders do nothing to help people understand what the consequences and benefits of the bill are.
“Why do you want politicians doing it? Take some responsibility. Doesn’t this goes right back to the conservative argument that some types of education should be done in the family – sex ed, manners, health, financial strategy, etc? When your kid gets sick do you send them to school anyway and tell the school nurse to take care of it?”
This rant makes no sense. The left wants some legislation passed. They can either make a compelling case to the electorate or not. Nobody is saying that they want politicians to make decisions without the input of citizens. To the contrary, I am stating that the politicians need to pay more attention to the concerns of citizens related to this bill.
“You sound like how you describe us liberals: always wanting someone else to take responsibility. Always lookin for someone else to do the heavy lifting. blah blah blah.”
When did I ever say anything like that? Again, you are making some straw man argument based on your stereotyped perception of what I must believe in order to disagree with you. I’ll speak for myself, thank you.
“Read the bill, explain it truthfully, and settle their fears. Quite simple.”
Yes, that is what I am proposing that liberal pundits and Democrat politicians do. Instead of “explaining it truthfully” they are giving the same response they do to ever issue: “conservatives are bad”. As for reading the bill, I’ll let John Conyers tell you what he thinks about that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACbwND52rrw
radiowxman
August 7th, 2009
4:47 pm
Taxpayer — that ship sailed long before the republicans came into power. we’ve been writing IOUs on Social Security longer than I’ve been alive. Besides, it’s not the current retirees who will pay the price for that. It’s us 30 somethings who won’t see a dime of what we were forced to put in it.
mike
August 7th, 2009
4:47 pm
N.J. –
That is the kind of argument that folks with the microphone (Jay, Pelosi, et al) need to be making. That is my point.
mike
August 7th, 2009
4:50 pm
GOP is gone –
Your attitude towards end of life decisions namely that the life of elderly people has no value and they are a drain on society) is exactly what conservative partisans are talking about. Comments like yours only exacerbate the perception that are damaging to your cause. Add in the sneering at other people’s faith and you are gold to the conservative cause.
Taxpayer
August 7th, 2009
4:53 pm
radiowxman,
Yes, I know that the Reagan administration started it. However, the latest estimates have the Social Security fund paying out more than it takes in by as early as 2013. I think that might just take out more than you 30 somethings.
mike
August 7th, 2009
4:54 pm
Redneck Convert –
Thanks for the regular does of bigotry. Very impressive. Do you do black-face too?
Taxpayer
August 7th, 2009
4:56 pm
Here you go, mike.