GOP using paranoia to push reason out of health-care debate
The Obama White House has asked supporters of health-care reform for examples of emails that make allegations about reform that sound outlandish, fishy or misinformed. For example, that ObamaCare is going to force your grandpa to commit suicide.
That particular bit of misinformed hysteria is inspired by a useful provision in the bill that would let Medicare pay for the consultation if you decide to talk with your doctor about making a living will, the kind of document that might have prevented the Terri Schiavo fiasco. It would take a determined effort to turn that into a program designed to push old people off onto ice floes (fixed, thanks RW) to die, but that’s exactly what some on the right have done. (Mike Madden at Salon has a useful piece on the Five Big Lies about proposed health-care reform.)
The reasoning behind the Obama e-mail request is pretty simple: If you want to try to refute lies, you need to know what those lies are. And in the murky world of the Internet, new lies and distortions pop up constantly. “There is a lot of disinformation about health insurance reform out there, spanning from control of personal finances to end of life care,” Macon Phillips, the White House director of new media, wrote on his blog. “These rumors often travel just below the surface via chain emails or through casual conversation. Since we can’t keep track of all of them here at the White House, we’re asking for your help. If you get an email or see something on the web about health insurance reform that seems fishy, send it to flag@whitehouse.gov.”
However, opponents of reform have seized upon the request as a means to heighten the paranoia that has become their favorite weapon in this debate.
In a letter to the White House, GOP Sen. John Cornyn of Texas portrays it as program “asking American citizens to report their fellow citizens to the White House for pure political speech that is deemed “fishy” or otherwise inimical to the White House’s political interests.” He raises the spectre of a White House “data collection program” by which it can assemble “the names, email addresses, IP addresses, and private speech of U.S. citizens” opposed to reform. In other words, an enemies list. He also demands to know “what action … you intend to take against citizens who have been reported for engaging in ‘fishy’ speech?”
It’s a ludicrous suggestion, but it’s perfectly in line with the GOP strategy to use emotion, anger and fear as means to drown out debate, discussion and facts. It is the telling behavior of a movement that knows it will lose the debate on those grounds.
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334 comments Add your comment
I Report (-: You Whine )-:
August 6th, 2009
8:57 am
Here’s an email for the Snooper in Chief-
So, after running into heavy opposition among Congressional Democrats and growing public hostility to his plan, Mr. Obama has now recast the debate as an attack on insurance companies, with the president serving as savager-in-chief. This would be more credible if he hadn’t surrounded himself with insurance CEOs and lobbyists when he kicked off his effort in March.-WallStreetJournal
Spy on that.
Peadawg
August 6th, 2009
9:01 am
“t’s a ludicrous suggestion, but it’s perfectly in line with the GOP strategy to use emotion, anger and fear”
As does the Democrats. Are you so biased to see that both parties use this strategy?
stands for decibels
August 6th, 2009
9:02 am
it’s perfectly in line with the GOP strategy to use emotion, anger and fear as means to drown out debate, discussion and facts
How’d that work for them in 2008?
Peadawg
August 6th, 2009
9:04 am
“How’d that work for them in 2008?”
The same as it worked for Democrats in 2000 and 2004.
Who You Gonna Call
August 6th, 2009
9:06 am
What action should we take against people that spread lies. Tell them the truth, perhaps. Challenge them for proof of their claim[s], if you can get these little people to come out into the open and go face to face with people ready to challenge them. Cowards hide behind lies.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
August 6th, 2009
9:06 am
Well, nothing like a good breakfast of South Carolina bass and biscuits.
I see there was plenty of caterwauling last night. Happens every time Sister Dusty starts posting. Like I said before, she’s like the driver that ain’t never been in a accident but has caused thousands.
I see the cops are out on the innerstates today trying to catch Atlanta drivers that drive too fast or follow too close. It might be a good idea to slow it down to 80 or 85 today. They’ll be gone after the weekend and you can start going the normal speed Monday.
Anyhow, I’ll be checking in today to see what you all have to say about this Obama health care bill. In my opinion if a little fibbing will slow it down or beat it, then go for it. You can always pray for forgiveness later.
Have a good day everybody. There’s fish to catch and beer to drink and I got to get to it.
Bosch
August 6th, 2009
9:06 am
And I guess another GOP strategy is to stock town hall meetings with hysterical ignorant paranoid freaks to stop any kind of debate by disruption and yelling. What is wrong with these people?
George American
August 6th, 2009
9:07 am
Many people, including George American, will not stand for forced suicide after denial of coverage!!! We will fight socialism with any means necessary.
I Report (-: You Whine )-:
August 6th, 2009
9:08 am
Exactly half of the registered voters surveyed from July 27 to Aug. 3 by Quinnipiac said they approve of the job Obama is doing, compared with 42 percent who disapprove. That’s down from 57 percent approval and 33 percent disapproval in a poll taken in late June, according to results released today.-Bloomberg
bwa
Seems as though he’s losing the few “ignorant, Bible thumping rednecks” that he did have.
I wonder why?
Maybe people don’t like being hated on, which is Obozo’s standard tactic of late.
Bosch
August 6th, 2009
9:09 am
Redneck,
“There’s fish to catch and beer to drink and I got to get to it.”
Are you on vacation? Good God I hope not – who will deliver the beer? I mean, I know that you deserve on and all and I hope you have a great time and get some rest, but seriously, who will deliver the beer? Did you get a replacement?
Brad Steel
August 6th, 2009
9:10 am
GOP strategy has been reduced to scaring old people.
Well, at least they have the sense to pick something from their playbook that they know how to do. To bad its all they have left.
Mrs. Godzilla
August 6th, 2009
9:10 am
One thing you can say about the GOP of the last few years….when they discover a losing strategery….they stick with it!
Bravo!
Palin Jindahl 2012 PLEASE OH PLEASE OH PLEASE
stands for decibels
August 6th, 2009
9:10 am
The same as it worked for Democrats in 2000 and 2004.
Really? Do tell, what kind of crazy-mofo mobs showed up to scream crazy allegations about Bush/Cheney being “terrorists” and “muslims” and “terrorist muslims” at the Gore/Lieberman or Kerry/Edwards rallies? I seem to have forgotten.
jt
August 6th, 2009
9:11 am
I bet you that Mrs. Godzilla would have narced out Samual Adams to old King George if she had a chance.
Who knows, maybe her forebears did.
GOP is gone
August 6th, 2009
9:14 am
I think George works out at LA fitness
Gandalf, the Wise
August 6th, 2009
9:14 am
Turn in your neighbor for talking against “Change”. Orwell really was talking about Barry and his team. J. I can’t believe you buy into this, are you really that uncritical? Barry and his team are destroying your country. Sorry you are on thier side.
Who You Gonna Call
August 6th, 2009
9:15 am
The Republicans are going to have a tough time topping the scare that they put in that old retired guy that told his congressman that the government better keep its hands off his Medicare. The smart thing for the congressmen to do is abide by his demand — otherwise they could get themselves assaulted by a whole pack of Citizens with Canes.
Davo
August 6th, 2009
9:18 am
Bookman would rather parrot DNC talking points than make an arguement for himself…and this of course is nothing new. Why the AJC would bother to keep this bum on payroll should concern anyone who actually gives a hoot about current events; do you want perspective or duplicity?
Those who think healthcare is a right…are just plain evil. Rights don’t come at the expense of others. Rights also are not handed down by presidents, or quasi-religous freaks like Obama.
The half of us who are true citizens know this; the rest of you sheeple just don’t care. And that’s what makes it evil.
RW-(the original)
August 6th, 2009
9:20 am
This is two days in row so it must not be a typo. Isn’t it ice FLOES?
Now as for the snitch box at the White House. It’s clearly an attempt to stifle and intimidate. Something this bunch is very comfortable with.
Bosch
August 6th, 2009
9:20 am
RW,
Are you a little cranky this morning? The transformation back wasn’t so good? Sorry.
stands for decibels
August 6th, 2009
9:20 am
Those who think healthcare is a right…are just plain evil.
Thanks, Davo. What’s more, I can’t imagine why anyone might think the right wing has gone around the bend, ideologically.
Turd Ferguson
August 6th, 2009
9:22 am
Cmon…If Obama and company, Pelosi/Reid etc, were on the up and up about ObamaCare then they would need not this list to dispute lies.
Nice try!!
Mrs. Godzilla
August 6th, 2009
9:22 am
jt
as it happens, my granny registered us girls with the DAR at birth….
my “noble” ancestors left the estates for the colonies in the 1700’s and fought for the freedom of the American colonies….
Don’t Tread on Me….
jt are you admitting being ok with threats of violence against
our government and it’s elected representatives?
Citizen of the World
August 6th, 2009
9:25 am
I don’t think the lies and distortions about health care reform are going to work this time. Too many people have been ill-treated by the greedy health insurance industry.
There are are 46 million people without health insurance (many who can’t afford it, and many who just can’t get it) and millions and millions more who only can afford it or get it because they are in an employer-sponsored/subsidized group plan.
Having insurance tied to employment may have been a good idea at one time, but not anymore, and we need to change that. Having health insurance as a for-profit enterprise is another thing we need to change, because the profit motive produces a clear and corrupting conflict of interest when it comes to actually providing people with the coverage they paid for.
If the plan that the government comes up with is less than perfect it will mostly be because the medical-industrial complex has wielded its considerable influence over our legislators to weaken it with provisions that protect their vested interests — but we need to fight that.
If you are complacent about this issue, maybe you haven’t been jerked around by a health insurance company, but there’s a danger in thinking it can’t happen to you.
@@
August 6th, 2009
9:30 am
Gosh, jay, can we talk about the inconsistencies coming out of this administration on a myriad of issues — including healthcare and the cost-benefit analysis. I think that’s wherein the problem “lies”.
Mrs. G:
I left a post for you downstairs. You’re taking this “notification” thing way too seriously. Has the administration sent you your brown-shirt complete with red epaulets?
stands for decibels
August 6th, 2009
9:31 am
John Cornyn of Texas portrays it as program “asking American citizens to report their fellow citizens to the White House for pure political speech that is deemed “fishy” or otherwise inimical to the White House’s political interests.”
You know, I might have to go find that audio just so I can hear how he pronounces the word “inimical”.
So, any bets how long before some rightie wacko has tastefully photoshopped Obama’s head on pics of Hitler youth, to better lend in support of Today’s Shiny Bauble(R)?
jt
August 6th, 2009
9:31 am
Mrs. G-you asked.
jt are you admitting being ok with threats of violence against
our government and it’s elected representatives?
jt answers-
Absolutely not. As a matter of fact, I just reported my main business competitor. He said some bad things about Chris Dodd. My ex-wife is next.
I am a good American.
jconservative
August 6th, 2009
9:32 am
Any chance of health care reform is now DEAD. Nothing meaningful will pass Congress.
All you folks age 45 & down will be going through living hell for the next 20 years as you struggle to pay for 30 million baby boomers on Social Sec, Medicare, Medicaid & millions of kids on SCHIP.
Republicans really screwed up this time. Instead of going to war against Obama to appease their political base, they should have sat down and devised a reform bill to take care of the pending disaster that is going to happen in the next 20 years. An outline for the required bill has been sitting in the Senate Finance Committee files since 1993 (authored by the Republican staff).
Me? I am 67 and except for taking a few dollars out of IRA’s occasionally, I do not pay taxes. I am off the hook.
You guys 45 & under – you are not getting much of an inheritance.
Turd Ferguson
August 6th, 2009
9:32 am
46 million. I wonder how many of those CHOSE not to participate. CNN ran a story the other night about 18 to 30 years olds who elect NOT to purchase HCare insurance as they believe the dont need it.
Other groups would be the Very wealthy that also chose to absorb the risk.
Then of course there are those that cant afford it OR CHOOSE not to afford it due to buying HDTV’s, 20 inch rims etc.
Then there are those BUMS who refuse to obtain employment so they might afford it.
Then there are those who for whatever reason just will not purchase.
Does that = 46 million? Probably not but I would venture to guess the numbers of the above mentioned would have quite a significant effect on this supposed 46 millions that “cant afford HCare”.
USinUK
August 6th, 2009
9:33 am
hey Bosch!
how’z stuff with the homestead??
“And I guess another GOP strategy is to stock town hall meetings with hysterical ignorant paranoid freaks to stop any kind of debate by disruption and yelling. What is wrong with these people?”
seriously, I’ve seen a few of the videos … alls I can say is boy-howdy, talk about an anti-dote to homesickness. and the quivvering-voiced “where’d my country go” woman all I can say is:
lithium.
take two.
“Rights also are not handed down by presidents”
funny. I think that most women would disagree with that since we had to fight tooth and nail for the right to vote before it was legislated, signed and voted on by the states. As would most southerners of african descent just so that they could be counted as an entire person rather than 2/3rds of one.
jt
August 6th, 2009
9:35 am
And I really don’t want to here anything else about SIR Ronald W. Reagen.
USinUK
August 6th, 2009
9:36 am
TF –
“18 to 30 years olds who elect NOT to purchase HCare insurance as they believe the dont need it”
so, let’s see … you have kids who aren’t covered by their parents and who are just starting out as young adults — not exactly making huge incomes. while I don’t know much about the premiums for men of childbearing age, I know LOADS about the premiums for women — for good coverage, you’re talking north of $300/month.
they’re not “opting out” … they’re opting to pay for rent, their car and food.
stands for decibels
August 6th, 2009
9:37 am
There are are 46 million people without health insurance (many who can’t afford it, and many who just can’t get it)
but like, most of ‘em are illegulz and the rest don’t want it and why are you killing granny????
/winger
stands for decibels
August 6th, 2009
9:39 am
Has the administration sent you your brown-shirt complete with red epaulets?
Well, it’s not the specific Photoshopping I was looking for, but it’s close enough.
Seth
August 6th, 2009
9:40 am
I personally know dozens of people who are upset with the potential threat to individual liberties that some of Obama’s policies infringe upon. I have friends and family that have a mix of voting as a Democrat, Republican, and Independent and nearly all are fearful of how our national debt is skyrocketing. We believe Bush was irresponsible with the amount of overspending but that Obama has pushed so far beyond that to reckless and destructive.
For all of you who say with a broad swipe that anyone who fears government controlled healthcare is some sort of ‘plant’ is delusional. There are centuries and centuries of evidence where large, invasive governments were created with good ‘intent’, but proved malicious and controlling in practice. It is good that so many people are recognizing exactly how much control we are asking the government to have over our lives – far beyond what our founding fathers intended.
Even if there is no ‘intent’ on using the names and authors for some nefarious purpose, even collecting the information appears to be illegal. Nearly all of those emails forwarded to the White House will have dozens of email addresses and names attached. In the U.S. Code titled “Records maintained on individuals”, it says government agencies, including the executive branch, may “maintain no record describing how any individual exercises rights guaranteed by the First Amendment unless expressly authorized by statute or by the individual about whom the record is maintained unless pertinent to and within the scope of authorized law enforcement activity.”
Unless all of these emails and blogs have had the authors name removed prior to collection, which would be next to impossible, it appears that Obama’s White House is illegally defying the privacy act.
Turd Ferguson
August 6th, 2009
9:40 am
US/UK…Im just stating what the program on CNN, Communist News Network, protrayed. I was quite surprised myself the the Left leaning Liberal station CNN would broadcast such as it flys in the face of ObamaCare.
Mrs. Godzilla
August 6th, 2009
9:41 am
@@
what do you care? aren’t you of the screw the government mentality?
jt
please be nice to my 2nd cousin Ronnie…..we’ve understood his “myth” for a long time
Paul
August 6th, 2009
9:41 am
I told a pretty conservative friend yesterday of my dismay of the shout-downs and nutty allegations regarding healthcare. His response? “We learned from the anti-Bush people what works.” I asked him why would he want to copy that which he didn’t like in his opponents. He grinned and said “Like I said – we saw it works.”
I find it interesting a telling paragraph of Sen Cornyn’s letter was omitted:
“I can only imagine the level of justifiable outrage had your predecessor [[that would be President Bush]] asked Americans to forward emails critical of his policies to the White House. I suspect that you would have been leading the charge in condemning such a program — and I would have been at your side denouncing such heavy-handed government action.”
USinUK
August 6th, 2009
9:43 am
yeah, TF … CNN said, “Then there are those BUMS who refuse to obtain employment so they might afford it.”
Turd Ferguson
August 6th, 2009
9:44 am
Why not institute the VAT?!! This would go along way in helping to pay for ObamaCare and EVERYONE, from the richest of the rich to the poorest of the poor can participate.
How you Dems feel about that?
RW-(the original)
August 6th, 2009
9:44 am
So the DNC gins up an angry mob to complain to the RNC about their ginned up angry mob and the RNC redirects the DNC angry mob calls back to the DNC switchboard. Priceless!
stands for decibels
August 6th, 2009
9:44 am
rather than 2/3rds of one.
3/5, atchully.
Davo
August 6th, 2009
9:44 am
“funny. I think that most women would disagree with that since we had to fight tooth and nail for the right to vote before it was legislated, signed and voted on by the states. As would most southerners of african descent just so that they could be counted as an entire person rather than 2/3rds of one.”
Heads up, dummy. Rights are handed down by your Creator. The fact that a govt chooses to recognize those rights or not is a civil matter. True citizens know that it is the individuals duty to fight those who govern so that they don’t interfer with those rights. Your arguement is so shallow that you would have us believe that an American women has right that a Saudi women does not because some autocrat says so.
Liberals…selfish, envious, and lazy. I am so glad I had parents who encouraged me to think for myself.
Finn McCool
August 6th, 2009
9:45 am
Jay, when do we get around to taking away their guns??
stands for decibels
August 6th, 2009
9:45 am
CNN, Communist News Network
Better tell Loud Obbs about that.
Paul
August 6th, 2009
9:45 am
Well, I’d written the following in response to @@ down below, then this thread popped up. I’ll submit it in response to “It is the telling behavior of a movement that knows it will lose the debate on those grounds.”
My impression is many Americans recognized changes to our healthcare system were needed. Premiums were escalating dramatically, many people were losing their jobs and coverage, exposing the problem of an employer-based benefits system. With the volume of job loss, people who had good coverage were a layoff away from losing everything. Some people, even with government jobs, were paying one-fourth of their before tax income in health insurance premiums. Add to that denial of coverage, widely-different coverage between similar-priced policies, and on and on, and people recognized reforms were necessary.
Where it went off the rails, I think, is when Pres Obama laid out broad, general principles and turned it over to another branch of government to work out the details. True to form (see stimulus package) they launched on their long-sought goals, which weren’t necessarily those which had the support of a wide number of Americans and which did not directly address their concerns.
One of these problems was immediate addressing of all uninsured –all- regardless of category. The price tag was staggering and, on the heels of the expensive stim package, raised fears of debt mounted on debt. People became wary. And many other issues, those that were of initial concern to many, had not even been addressed. When they were, it was almost as an afterthought, almost a “uh, yeah, we have something about that… lessee.. okay, right here, we talk about nondenial for preexisting conditions. Okay?”
Momentum, once lost, is difficult to regain. I’m afraid this is another crisis where an opportunity was presented but was squandered.
Ron
August 6th, 2009
9:46 am
You better be careful when the government starts asking people to forward PRIVATE emails from your friends what is next?
USinUK
August 6th, 2009
9:46 am
dB –
“3/5, atchully.”
I was rounding
Bosch
August 6th, 2009
9:47 am
USinUK,
Things are progressing on the home front. Thanks for asking.
Gee Paul,
The only protestors I remember during the Bush years were the war protestors, I don’t recall angry mobs of old people screaming about fascism at town hall meetings when domestic policy issues were discussed. Or maybe that’s because there were no town hall meetings regarding domestic policies – because there were no domestic policy changes – a status quo of screw the citizenry.
Bosch
August 6th, 2009
9:48 am
“Rights are handed down by your Creator”
Mom? Dad? WTF?