The Big Dawg visits the land of the crazy

from the AP:

WASHINGTON — The White House took a tight-lipped stance Tuesday on former President Clinton’s visit to North Korea to press for the release of two jailed Americans arrested in March.

“While this solely private mission to secure the release of the two Americans is on the ground, we will have no comment,” said a statement by Press Secretary Robert Gibbs. “We do not want to jeopardize the success of former President Clinton’s mission.”

Clinton earlier landed in North Korea on a private jet.

Sen. Lindsay Graham, R-S.C., said earlier Tuesday he hoped that Clinton’s visit to Pyongyang would yield some progress on the difficult standoff between the United States and North Korea on nuclear issues.

Interviewed on NBC’s “Today” show, Graham said he saw no problem with Clinton taking the lead on resolving the issue of the two women arrested in March. The Clinton visit was reminiscent of some missions that Bill Richardson, now the governor of New Mexico, had taken in the past.

That’s certainly a high-stakes approach to the problem. I hope it works, but personally, I’m a little leery of it  given North Korea’s history. They love the attention, and now they’re getting it.

186 comments Add your comment

Doggone/GA

August 4th, 2009
8:01 am

Maybe we should just send Rambo it there to get them out.

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

August 4th, 2009
8:11 am

Well, sending Clinton over there is a great idea. Keeps him away from the interns.

Have a good day everybody.

Finn McCool

August 4th, 2009
8:11 am

Tell the Koreans to hide their daughters.

Belushi: “How much for your women?”
Father: “Say What?”
Belushi: “How much for the little girl?”

Finn McCool

August 4th, 2009
8:14 am

The Case for Paid Family Leave
Only two countries in the advanced world provide no guarantee for paid leave from work to care for a newborn child. Last spring one of the two, Australia, gave up that dubious distinction by establishing paid family leave starting in 2011. I wasn’t surprised when this didn’t make the news here in the United States—we’re now the only wealthy country without such a policy.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/210252?from=rss

I Report (-: You Whine )-:

August 4th, 2009
8:16 am

Maybe they’ll put him in jail with the two reporters.

And maybe then the democrats would have a reason to go to war.

USinUK

August 4th, 2009
8:18 am

“And maybe then the democrats would have a reason to go to war”

yeah, because the last time we were there went so well …

Gandalf - First!

August 4th, 2009
8:21 am

remember O.B.A.M.A?

it’s funny.

George American

August 4th, 2009
8:24 am

We should be sending them a Bush/Cheney special delivery. Not some BS chicken-chik Clinton talking. He is an incompetent liar.

Who You Gonna Call

August 4th, 2009
8:26 am

The Case for Paid Family Leave
Only two countries in the advanced world provide no guarantee for paid leave from work to care for a newborn child. Last spring one of the two, Australia, gave up that dubious distinction by establishing paid family leave starting in 2011. I wasn’t surprised when this didn’t make the news here in the United States—we’re now the only wealthy country without such a policy.

That’s because our women are tough. They’re like Amazons.

Brad Steel

August 4th, 2009
8:26 am

Is Bush sailing in on an aircraft carrier in his fighting regalia to “work things out”?

WTF?

August 4th, 2009
8:29 am

The Case for Paid Family Leave

Is this a family leave trip for Clinton or are you just a dipstick?

Who You Gonna Call

August 4th, 2009
8:29 am

I like the idea of sending Bush and Cheney to meet with Kim. They can take turns looking each other in the eyes and into each other’s souls. They could even form their own axis… of eeeeeeevil.

Swami Dave

August 4th, 2009
8:36 am

Regardless of how one may think of the former President, for the sake of the two jailed Americans, I hope his trip is successful.

-SD

mike

August 4th, 2009
8:39 am

So if you are a rogue nation looking for some attention and a Presidential visit, just arrest some American journalists. Lesson learned.

mike

August 4th, 2009
8:41 am

Someone needs to tell the angry liberals that Bush and Cheney have been out of office for months now and that their obsession with them makes them look pretty silly.

Paul

August 4th, 2009
8:41 am

Well, Pres Bush’s policies obviously didn’t ‘work.’

Neither have Pres Obama’s.

Good luck to Pres Clinton. Maybe he’ll get those poor women out of prison.

Maybe we should bar all travel to anyone to N Korea, stop all aid, stop all contact and if they persist, tell China to get them under control or we’ll provide nuke technology to Japan.

Nothing else has worked.

stands for decibels

August 4th, 2009
8:45 am

Regardless of how one may think of the former President, for the sake of the two jailed Americans, I hope his trip is successful.

Wholeheartedly agree with Swami Dave.

(see, it happens, sometimes.)

Bosch

August 4th, 2009
8:47 am

mike,

“Someone needs to tell the angry liberals that Bush and Cheney have been out of office for months now and that their obsession with them makes them look pretty silly.”

Yeah, we’ll get right on that as soon as the neo-cons stop obsessing over Clinton.

stands for decibels

August 4th, 2009
8:48 am

bar all travel to anyone to N Korea, stop all aid, stop all contact

I don’t think we’re exactly encouraging travel these days, and as for aid–looks like that’s not much of a bargaining chip either… (see page 2.)

Gale

August 4th, 2009
8:48 am

Case for Paid Family Leave – Who you gonna call
It isn’t because our women are strong, it’s because we care more about profit than the well-being of our children.

Mrs. Godzilla

August 4th, 2009
8:48 am

I’m with Swami Dave on this too.

EVERYONE OF US SHOULD BE.

GOP is gone

August 4th, 2009
8:50 am

I think Jay is right, Kim is like a toddler stomping his wittle feet and screaming “I won’t, I won’t…..” Unfortunately 2 Americans accidentally wandered down into Kim’s very own rabbit hole and he can scream “off with their heads”. Bill might be the Cheshire cat, but I hope it works for the women’s sake.

Who You Gonna Call

August 4th, 2009
8:53 am

Clinton has been out of office longer than Bush and he still gets lots of ‘attention’ from the conservatives. Maybe someone should tell them that Clinton is out of office.

By the way, I wish Clinton the best on his trip to North Korea.

Brad Steel

August 4th, 2009
8:53 am

mike,
Clinton has been out of office for years and yet he, and his wife, is still making significant and important contributions. It’s another reminder of the disaster that is Bush/Cheney.

It would be nice if their blunders weren’t such screaming reminders everyday, but they are. Forgetting them would be, in your lacking juvenile term, “silly”.

Who You Gonna Call

August 4th, 2009
8:55 am

It isn’t because our women are strong, it’s because we care more about profit than the well-being of our children.

Gale,

A person has to be strong to do that. Well, maybe ’strong’ isn’t the best choice of word.

Gale

August 4th, 2009
8:57 am

Who you gonna call, I don’t see your point.

Paul

August 4th, 2009
8:59 am

stands for decibels

(May I abbreviate sfd?)

A complete ban would stop recurrence of the current situation.

Good report – I was wondering if anyone would bring up how the “Axis of Evil” Pres Bush gave aid to N Korea – food aid. Lots of people said ‘we’ can’t ‘let’ them starve, regardless of what their leaders do..

Sure we can. Let China deal with the turmoil.

Turd Ferguson

August 4th, 2009
9:00 am

Darn…Carter shouldve joined Clinton for a hostage swap and as a bonus N Korea could indefintely keep them.

TUESDAY VANDY GIRL

August 4th, 2009
9:00 am

I may be cynical but I think the The Great and Horny Bill is only going because he thinks they will sleep with him if he secures their release.

Paul

August 4th, 2009
9:00 am

stands for decibels

I just did a careful look at page 2

Looks like Pres Obama is letting the citizenry of N Korea starve.

Surprise, surprise.

TnGelding

August 4th, 2009
9:01 am

Well, it’s worth a shot. From what I’ve read the agreement had already pretty much been worked out before he left. With him and Jimmy globe-trotting, the USA is back!

I don’t see this having anything to do with the nuclear issue tho, unless he is truly a miracle worker.

One word of caution, don’t let him anywhere near the women when they’re released!

USinUK

August 4th, 2009
9:02 am

“A person has to be strong to do that. Well, maybe ’strong’ isn’t the best choice of word.”

no, I think “desperate” would be a good word … or “struggling” might work, as well …

stands for decibels

August 4th, 2009
9:03 am

off topic:

Jay, why isn’t your superb dead-tree editorial on the GA/FL/AL water-wars political sitcheeation available online?

(I thought I had it linked downstairs since the other guy’s headline was kinda similar, but turns out I didn’t…)

And if it is online but I just couldn’t see it–well, fix that! make it so! schnell!

stands for decibels

August 4th, 2009
9:04 am

Paul, you can call me “DB” if you like, figured most regulars here would.

getalife

August 4th, 2009
9:05 am

He is over there to see what they want .

Probably oil.

TnGelding

August 4th, 2009
9:05 am

Paul

August 4th, 2009
9:00 am

Is it our responsibility to feed them? If they can’t pay, they don’t eat! It’s the capitalissts way! Maybe we could dispatch the lovely Sarah to teach them to hunt?

Seriously, we need to do what we can to get them food. We throw away enough every day to feed the entire country more than they’re eating now. Throw in the amount we over-consume and we could put a few more acres into conservation.

zeke

August 4th, 2009
9:06 am

Sure Clinton should go! He can tell the commies that, “hey guys, like an idiot we gave you this nuclear technology when I was President, so please deal with us!” WHAT FOOLS DEMOCRATS ARE!

Who You Gonna Call

August 4th, 2009
9:08 am

Gale,

I was simply being sarcastic and cynical of our so-called healthcare system. I think it is a cruel joke to couple the words health and care together and apply that combination to anything here in the USA. The taxpayers cannot even gain access to the same insurance that our tax dollar use to buy coverage for government employees and elected ones — at all levels of government. Why is that and why would some of our Congressmen deny us even that one simple thing.

USinUK

August 4th, 2009
9:09 am

Paul –

“Looks like Pres Obama is letting the citizenry of N Korea starve”

no, that would be Kim Jung Il

Doggone/GA

August 4th, 2009
9:10 am

Here’s what I don’t understand: those women were at the China/N.Korea border – which at that place is a river. You don’t “accidentally” or “inadvertently” cross a river. So, IF they were telling the truth when they said they DIDN’T cross the border…then they were kidnapped from Chinese territory.

If they DID cross the river…then they were lying when they denied it.

So which is the truth? If they DID cross the border, then what complaint do we have against the N. Koreans? They violated the border.

If they DIDN’T cross the border…then why has nothing been said about how the N. Koreans were able to arrest them, if they were in fact on Chinese Territory?

Who You Gonna Call

August 4th, 2009
9:11 am

stands for decibels,

may I call you dB instead. I’m just a stickler when it comes to certain things.

Paul

August 4th, 2009
9:13 am

TnGelding

I wasn’t saying (or implying, or asserting or whatever) we should not provide food aid. I understand the Bush Administration separated the condition of the people from the causative factors of their leaders. Their pouring so much into the military and leadership lifestyles led to this. In reality, would further starvation cause a revolt? Most probably not. More people would die horrible deaths. Millions already are.

But it gets back to the question: when do we intervene in a country’s affairs?

I still find it interesting Pres Obama is living with zero food aid.

Paul

August 4th, 2009
9:14 am

USinUK

Sure he is (Kim).

But… Pres Obama’s not providing food aid to the starving peoples…. as Pres Bush did…..

pingpingpingpingping

Who You Gonna Call

August 4th, 2009
9:14 am

Sure Clinton should go! He can tell the commies that, “hey guys, like an idiot we gave you this nuclear technology when I was President, so please deal with us!” WHAT FOOLS DEMOCRATS ARE!

I read somewhere that Rumsfeld was on the board of directors or something like that of the company that ’sold’ the nuclear technology to North Korea. I can’t remember where I saw that though.

stands for decibels

August 4th, 2009
9:15 am

may I call you dB instead.

bUT oF cOURSE.

Later, gators. Try not to starve anyone.

Nan

August 4th, 2009
9:17 am

Doggone – at the time the women crossed the river, it was the middle of the winter. I know this is Georgia, but surely you’ve heard of ice? You know, solid stuff that forms when the temperature of water drops below freezing? News reports at the time said the women had walked out on to the frozen river and apparently went past the mid-way point, which put them in North Korea.

USinUK

August 4th, 2009
9:18 am

Paul -

“North Korea has rejected an offer of further food aid from the US despite its chronic food shortages, the US state department said today.

Pyongyang said it would turn away about 330,000 metric tonnes due to arrive before May and ordered US non-governmental organisations to leave the country.

The US offer was turned down days after a special investigator for the UN human rights council said almost 7 million North Koreans had not received the food aid they desperately need.”

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar/18/north-korea-us-food-aid

don’t confuse us not offering with them not accepting

Doggone/GA

August 4th, 2009
9:19 am

“Doggone – at the time the women crossed the river, it was the middle of the winter. I know this is Georgia, but surely you’ve heard of ice?”

Ice? Never heard of it before ever in my long, long life. Snarkiness doesn’t advance the discussion.

Who You Gonna Call

August 4th, 2009
9:20 am

I thought that paper that dB cited showed that Bush cut off food aid to North Korea for several years and reduced it significantly in other years.

Tank

August 4th, 2009
9:20 am

Ahhhh…. Islam, ask any Muslim and they will tell you theirs is a religion based on peace.

From Fox (that right-wing bastion of lies), “Christian Family Burned to Death in Pakistan After Koran is ‘Defiled’”. Let’s see now… Three teen Christians allegedly (that’s allegedly) burn a copy of the Koran. Clerics (that’s right, their religious leaders) call for the teens deaths. Mobs enter the village and set fire to Christian’s homes killing possibly three dozen.

Ahhhh Islam. Doesn’t Islam mean “peace”? Women subjugated, intolerance, fear and brutality, If you burned the Bible, Christians would probably pray for you.

Curious Observer

August 4th, 2009
9:21 am

I still find it interesting Pres Obama is living with zero food aid.

And I suppose that after North Korea’s leading elite balloon to 400 lbs. each, they would release some of the food aid to the peasantry. All supplying food aid would do is free up even more state funds for the development of weaponry. The North Korean leadership cares nothing for its citizens. It would even take credit for any food released to the common people, carefully stripping all marks of U.S. origin from its containers.

Tell me, Paul, were you the child who, finding a big bag of horse manure under the Christmas tree, went searching for the pony?

Gale

August 4th, 2009
9:21 am

Maybe refusing food is a N.Korean plot to reduce population so they don’t need food.

stands for decibels

August 4th, 2009
9:21 am

oh, one last thing. Paul, I’ve no idea how accurate/recent that report you’ve picked-up-and-run-with happens to be… I was mostly trying to establish the trend, and the scale of our aid to NK being pretty pitiful over the years, going back to Clinton and Bush.

Really, what’s even 100million a year (not that it averaged that much) in food aid to a nation of 25 million? Feeds ‘em, what, a week at best, assuming no waste/graft/slippage (yarite!)…

In short, “do as we say or that food aid goes away” is kinda like owning nothing but Water Works in Monopoly, clout-wise…

the deal

August 4th, 2009
9:22 am

Kim Yuck Foo might eat Clinton.

Finn McCool

August 4th, 2009
9:23 am

bar all travel to anyone to N Korea, stop all aid, stop all contact

Like Cuber?

Can you smoke Koreans? Maybe bill can bring us back a case of Koreans?

Wyld Byll Hyltnyr

August 4th, 2009
9:26 am

Another dumb move by Obumbler. One only need to remember that Clinton provided enormous compensation to North Korea for a stand-down in a nuclear program – incidentially, a stand down that never occurred. I’m sure North Korea was thrilled to see the same yokel that it had fleeced before coming back to negotiate.

It should be noted that North Korea has withdrawn from the six-party discussions over its nuclear program due to thefailure of the Obumbler administration. In light of the North Korea sitation, the pending diaster in Afghanistan that is ripening on the Obumbler watch, and the looming national/deficit issues it is most disappointing to see Obumbler bring in this clown. He should swallow his pride and ask president bush to fix that which has been broken under the Obumbler administration.

Gale

August 4th, 2009
9:26 am

I often wonder how much good food aid does in a starving nation when the people of that nation have no means to improve their society, either because of government/internal strife or draught. Inadequate food just prolongs the suffering since the people barely subsist, yet continue to increase population.

Doggone/GA

August 4th, 2009
9:27 am

“Inadequate food just prolongs the suffering since the people barely subsist, yet continue to increase population.”

Got it. You think it’s better to just let millions of people starve to death.

Finn McCool

August 4th, 2009
9:31 am

Wow, these French folks are civilized:
consider France, where parents are entitled to a veritable cornucopia of financial benefits, starting with universal “family allowances” that begin with the second child—$164 monthly for two children and $375 monthly if there are three children. In addition, there are means-tested subsidies for child care, including a birth/adoption grant of $1,200; a “basic” monthly child-care allowance of $236 during the first three years, complimented by further subsidies for paid professional child care until a child’s sixth birthday; or a family leave benefit of $731 monthly if one parent leaves work to provide home care (and does not take the “basic” child care benefit).

– birth/adoption grant of $1,200 (Can I get an Amen from the pro-lifers?)

http://www.newsweek.com/id/210252?from=rss

Paul

August 4th, 2009
9:32 am

USinUK

So… if N Korea accepts nongovernmental organizations back in and gives assurances the food will actually get to the starving masses…

should we resume a program of feeding N Korean citizens while N Korean gov’t is behaving as they do?

who you gonna call 9:20

It went up and down as the administration tried various tactics to see if any would get a positive response.

Curious Observer

Can you clarify how I’m looking for good things in that situation?

SD 9:21

I think it’s a pretty accurate report.

Gale

August 4th, 2009
9:34 am

Doggone, I don’t think it is “better” to let them starve. I just think the food on it’s own is pointless. Many of those people will die anyway. The children who survive with malnutrition will not be able to build a better society.

Mr. Snarky

August 4th, 2009
9:34 am

Bill Clinton is visiting Alabama? What’s the big deal?

ByteMe

August 4th, 2009
9:37 am

Weird. Just had a nice vanilla posting trapped for moderation. Jay?

@@

August 4th, 2009
9:38 am

What’s goin’ on with the three American campers being detained by Iran? Who’s gonna negotiate on their behalf?

USinUK

August 4th, 2009
9:39 am

Paul –

“So… if N Korea accepts nongovernmental organizations back in and gives assurances the food will actually get to the starving masses… should we resume a program of feeding N Korean citizens while N Korean gov’t is behaving as they do?”

first of all, how about acknowledging that Obama wasn’t the one that ended food to NK.

secondly, we have always aided countries in need – even those with whom we were in conflict (see: Iraq during the 1990s)

Normal

August 4th, 2009
9:39 am

@@

August 4th, 2009
9:38 am
What’s goin’ on with the three American campers being detained by Iran? Who’s gonna negotiate on their behalf?

I think they are sending in Cheney…;>)

Finn McCool

August 4th, 2009
9:40 am

The United States does have one explicit family policy, the Family and Medical Leave Act, passed in 1993. It entitles workers to as much as 12 weeks unpaid leave for care of a newborn or dealing with a family medical problem. Despite the modesty of the benefit, the Chamber of Commerce and other business groups fought it bitterly, describing it as “government-run personnel management” and a “dangerous precedent.” In fact, every step of the way, as (usually) Democratic leaders have tried to introduce work-family balance measures into the law, business groups have been strongly opposed.

We Americans are still on the farm. Only now the slaves aren’t just the black folks – it’s every color, religion and creed below the board room level.

Ok, off to plow the back 40!

Doggone/GA

August 4th, 2009
9:40 am

“Doggone, I don’t think it is “better” to let them starve. I just think the food on it’s own is pointless. Many of those people will die anyway. The children who survive with malnutrition will not be able to build a better society”

yet you offer no alternative except to let them starve because they will die anyway? Gee, we could solve out whole healthcare debate with that argument: why treat people for their health issues, they’re going to die anyway. and if we DO treat them they might not be better for it anyway.

Buck Strickland

August 4th, 2009
9:40 am

Jay, Dawgs are from Georgia. Clinton is a Razorback. Get it straight hippie.

Who You Gonna Call

August 4th, 2009
9:41 am

It went up and down as the administration tried various tactics to see if any would get a positive response.

But, it went all the way to zero in 2006 and 2007.

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

August 4th, 2009
9:44 am

Well, I plumb forgot to tell you all about the wedding of Elmer Lovett’s girl I went to on Sunday. She looked pretty good and didn’t hardly stick out at all. Maybe because she wore this kind of loose dress.

Anyhow, turns out it was a Jewish wedding. The groom’s a Jew and seems to be a pretty nice guy. Tho Elmer is kind of down about it because he hates to think of his girl as Lost and going to Hell when she dies.

It was real entrusting. I didn’t hardly understand any of it because the guy that done the wedding spoke in some kind of foreign tongue. Down toward the end he wrapped this real nice glass in a big napkin and set it on the floor. And the groom stomped all over it! It was plumb ruint. It would of took a 1000 years to put all the pieces back together.

Anyhow, they had some real nice food after it was over. I didn’t talk to Elmer much because I could see he was kind of down. I felt real bad for him.

So that was the wedding. Have a good day everybody. You can get back to jawing about Clinton going to Korea.

Bosch

August 4th, 2009
9:46 am

Speaking of starving people and such….

I saw this interview somewhere – and for the life of me I can’t remember who it was – but the basic premise of the interview was that aid to countries in need doesn’t work, in fact it hurts the country worse.

It breeds corruption and does very little to help those in need – the government is also off the hook for doing anything, or making any kind of sustainable development or infrastructure.

It was an interesting argument.

USinUK

August 4th, 2009
9:46 am

Normal –

“I think they are sending in Cheney…;>)”

maybe he can invite KJI to go hunting …

Gale

August 4th, 2009
9:47 am

Doggone, Actually, the problem I have is food aid alone. That does not solve the problems. In areas where there is serious internal struggle, it seems to be enabling the conflict to continue. In areas of decades of drought where the lands does not even provide subsistence farming, we enable people to stay when they might otherwise move to better land. I do support NGOs that provide training and micro-loans to help people raise their standard of living. The problem is, some problems will not be solved with food. People need security and means to provide for families.

Who You Gonna Call

August 4th, 2009
9:47 am

Phil Gramm went to that dawg training school. He should have gone over there to North Korea. He could have showed Kim how a free market system, coupled with derivatives, could get him huge profits in the futures market, like he did for Enron and others. Then, Phil could have taught him about credit default swaps and how to properly utilize them to protect his assets.

Paul

August 4th, 2009
9:47 am

USinUK

I never said Pres Obama ended food aid. I said he was living with it. I didn’t even speculate if this is similar to the Fed budget, in which this year’s stuff is the result of Pres Bush’s actions.

:-)

You didn’t ask, but I’ll offer: I think we should continue the food aid if we’re sure it’s getting to the people. It demonstrates to the world we do not view the gov’t as an extension of the people and it highlights the cruelty of the regime.

Besides that, we’re Americans. It’s what we do.

USinUK

August 4th, 2009
9:50 am

Paul –

“I never said Pres Obama ended food aid.”

ahem: “Pres Obama’s not providing food aid to the starving peoples…. as Pres Bush did…..”

and I’ll give this a big ol’ amen: Besides that, we’re Americans. It’s what we do.

:-)

Paul

August 4th, 2009
9:51 am

Who You Gonna Call 9:41

Yup. Didn’t have any appreciable effect, either.

Bosch 9:46

It’s a good illustration of perceived good policy regardless of real or long-term impact. But in N Korea’s case, whether we’re there or not is irrelevant – the leaders are not going to do anything to alleviate the suffering, stop the corruption or cease their evil ways.

Batboy

August 4th, 2009
9:52 am

You mean “Horndog pulls Al Gore’s reporters out of the fire”. Has anyone asked why Al Gore’s reporters were there?

Normal

August 4th, 2009
9:52 am

Doggone, If I may step in here, I believe what Gale is really saying, is that why waste the food if it is not getting to the masses? China, for what ever reason, will not let NK starve, but would rather have others (read USA)pay for it for them. If our food aid only ends up in the bellies of the NK Elite, then what is the point?

As to the healthcare situation, I have no comment because I don’t understand why it seems so wrong to want to keep our people healthy, but that’s just me….

Gandalf, the Great: King and Wizard of Gwinnesia

August 4th, 2009
9:52 am

Hey someone is using my moniker! That first post wasn’t me folkes!

It’s:
One
Big
A$$
Mistake
America

Silly wannabe Wizard!

Doggone/GA

August 4th, 2009
9:53 am

“Actually, the problem I have is food aid alone. That does not solve the problems. In areas where there is serious internal struggle, it seems to be enabling the conflict to continue. In areas of decades of drought where the lands does not even provide subsistence farming, we enable people to stay when they might otherwise move to better land.”

You aren’t thinking this through. For instance: where will they move TO? If the land is being abused, then yes, teaching them better farming techniques is needed also…but if they are starving they can’t work the land period. If the land is unsavable…then, again, where will they move to?

“I do support NGOs that provide training and micro-loans to help people raise their standard of living.”

But if they are starving, even those will not assist them.

“The problem is, some problems will not be solved with food.:

And their problems will not be solved with NO food either.

“People need security and means to provide for families.”

When they are starving all they care about is food. Get them healthy again and THEN you can provide any other aid they need, but food must come first.

And remember this “crop failure can be natural, famine is always political”

TnGelding

August 4th, 2009
9:53 am

Paul

August 4th, 2009
9:13 am

I came late to the party, as usual. I’ll go back later and catch up. I find it more than interesting. I find it appalling, for the reasosns mentioned above.

Gandalf, the Great: King and Wizard of Gwinnesia

August 4th, 2009
9:53 am

If they work for aLgOrE they may be spies, he’s Dr. EVIL….

Paul

August 4th, 2009
9:54 am

USinUK

See, this is why I like these back and forths with you. You stay on point and you get the nuance.

Your 9:50: “Ending” something is different than living with a situation. IF Pres Obama came in office and a program was zero, he didn’t end it. It was over, already. IF he lets that continue (doesn’t add funds to it), he’s ‘living with it.’ If it’s zero and he transfers funds into it, he’s not living with it, he’s doing something about it.

:-) :-)

Gandalf, the Great: King and Wizard of Gwinnesia

August 4th, 2009
9:54 am

Can’t we just spray agent orange on thier Rice Fields?

Gandalf, the Great: King and Wizard of Gwinnesia

August 4th, 2009
9:56 am

When you have an opponent on the ropes, you don’t let them rest a minute and regain strength, you relentlessly attack until they can’t defend themselves…that is what we need to do in North Korea, Iran, the V country down south. We need to back the hell out of Afganistan, as nothing of intrest lies there except certain defeat.

Doggone/GA

August 4th, 2009
9:56 am

“Doggone, If I may step in here, I believe what Gale is really saying, is that why waste the food if it is not getting to the masses? China, for what ever reason, will not let NK starve, but would rather have others (read USA)pay for it for them. If our food aid only ends up in the bellies of the NK Elite, then what is the point?”

That’s a different argument. It’s always a trade-off. If you provide food for the population, there’s no doubt some of it will be siphoned off. BUT – there’s no reason you have to offer aid with no strings attached. You offer the food aid, but require that it be distributed by NGO’s…and if they refuse that…well, as someone pointed out: don’t confuse a refusal to get with not offering to give.

Gandalf, the Great: King and Wizard of Gwinnesia

August 4th, 2009
9:57 am

We should blockade Cubar too!

Bosch

August 4th, 2009
9:58 am

Paul,

“the leaders are not going to do anything to alleviate the suffering, stop the corruption or cease their evil ways.”

I hope that was a joke.

:roll:

Doggone/GA

August 4th, 2009
9:59 am

“you relentlessly attack until they can’t defend themselves”

FOUR MORE WARS! FOUR MORE WARS!

TnGelding

August 4th, 2009
10:00 am

USinUK

August 4th, 2009
9:18 am

Thanks for the clarification. I knew something didn’t sound right.

@@

August 4th, 2009
10:01 am

Normal:

Why would they send Cheney when one of the students being detained is already armed and dangerous. He, Mr. Bauer (not Jack) graduated from Berkeley with a degree in peace and conflict studies?

That alone oughta solve the problem, don’tcha think?

Soothsayer

August 4th, 2009
10:02 am

If I EVER mention going to Wisconsin PLEASE talk me out of it.

4 Wis. women accused in lovers’ quadrangle plot

Have you ever seen an uglier woman? Heck she would make a pretty good man!

Soothsayer

August 4th, 2009
10:03 am

TnGelding

August 4th, 2009
10:04 am

Tank

August 4th, 2009
9:20 am

The key word in your last sentence is probably. But some might take stronger measures.

That there are radical Muslims is well documented. Bur most of them are peaceful and shouldn’t be tarnished by the minority that aren’t. Take the Kenyan prince for example.

USinUK

August 4th, 2009
10:04 am

Paul –

“See, this is why I like these back and forths with you. You stay on point and you get the nuance.”

right back at ya, bubba!

okay – now I’m trying to understand – are you saying he’s living with the fact that NK ended the program and kicked out the US NGOs???

if so, what is he supposed to do? this isn’t like Berlin where we could fly over friendly territory to do an airlift into a small city. if we were to airlift now, it would require that we infringe on NK sovereign airspace – having our guys get shot down.

USinUK

August 4th, 2009
10:06 am

“4 Wis. women accused in lovers’ quadrangle plot”

that even made the morning papers here! while they each had a face only a mother could love, I got a giggle out of their idea of revenge (supergluing the guy’s mmm-hmmm to his leg) … it’s not permanent, it’s not disfiguring, it’s not fatal … but it is embarassing when he has to explain it in the ER …

TnGelding

August 4th, 2009
10:07 am

Finn McCool

August 4th, 2009
9:23 am

Or some of the hundreds of billions we’ve poured into S. Korea over the last 58 years.

Bosch

August 4th, 2009
10:07 am

Soothsayer,

I saw that on the news Saturday morning. Um, that woman isn’t all that ugly as she is – um, let’s just say, she looks like one to not be reckoned with.

Well, obviously she is not to be reckoned with.