Another nonsensical, unjust application of ‘Don’t ask, don’t tell’
Today’s Washington Post outlines the case of Air Force Lt. Col. Victor Fehrenbach, a decorated 18-year veteran “who has flown combat missions in F-15E fighters and other aircraft over Afghanistan, Iraq and Bosnia, and now serves as assistant director of operations for an Air Force squadron in Idaho.”
Last year, after a civilian reported that Fehrenbach is gay, the Air Force began legal proceedings that will soon force the decorated colonel out of the service, two years before he is eligible for retirement benefits of nearly $50,000 a year.
Aren’t we past this yet? Isn’t it a gross injustice to oust someone two years short of retirement, someone who has served his country faithfully and put his life on the line for America, someone who clearly wants to continue doing so?
And why exactly are we doing this?
Stop the insanity.
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201 comments Add your comment
Gandalf - First!
August 3rd, 2009
2:48 pm
1st!!!
go adam – you’re dreamy
TUESDAY VANDY GIRL
August 3rd, 2009
2:55 pm
Good non-story to hide the growing DISCONTENT in the heartland, as the congresstards fan out to their districts, with Obamacare.
Kamchak
August 3rd, 2009
2:57 pm
Aren’t we past this yet? Isn’t it a gross injustice to oust someone two years short of retirement, someone who has served his country faithfully and put his life on the line for America, someone who clearly wants to continue doing so?
With a little rewording we can also say—Isn’t it a gross injustice to oust someone two years short of corporate retirement because it will boost the bottom line through denied retirement benefits? Someone who has served the corporation and it’s profits faithfully putting in long hours off the books is getting dismissed because he/she is too old.
Gale
August 3rd, 2009
2:58 pm
Would it really take anything more than an executive order to place a moratorium on discharge proceedings for gay servicemen? Everyone but a few maladjusted E1s and E2s can see this is a regulation that is not in the interest of national defense.
RW-(the original)
August 3rd, 2009
3:04 pm
And why exactly are we doing this?
To preserve Clinton’s legacy?
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
August 3rd, 2009
3:05 pm
Well, this is what happens when a librul like Clinton lets them in the military to start with. Anyhow, all this guy needed to do was keep his mouth shut a couple more years and not do You Know What with another gay and he would be drawing his pension. But no, he had to go blabbing to somebody. Or fooling around with a civilian that ratted on him.
So there’s nothing nobody can do about it now and he’s a goner. We would be alot better off if we just kept them out of the military to start with. But no, we had to go waste 18 years of training on this guy and all for nothing, as it turns out. I told the missus when this Don’t Ask Don’t Tell stuff started it would all turn out bad because it’s a Sin Against God. And it turns out I was right.
Have a good night everybody.
Mort Merkel
August 3rd, 2009
3:05 pm
It’s the rules. They’re wrong, but they exist.
stands for decibels
August 3rd, 2009
3:11 pm
Would it really take anything more than an executive order to place a moratorium on discharge proceedings for gay servicemen?
I’ve wondered that very thing more than a few times myself. Certainly the Administration would have us believe the answer is yes. Don’t know if I buy it though.
Mrs. Godzilla
August 3rd, 2009
3:11 pm
I am extremely unhappy with the President’s choice NOT to reverse this by executive order.
RealityKing
August 3rd, 2009
3:14 pm
rules are rules. Just try yelling at a stupid cop and see what happens to you..
Angry Black Man
August 3rd, 2009
3:15 pm
DADT needs to go the way of the T-Rex. Maybe it can be compacted and produce fossil fuels in a few million years
Mrs. Godzilla
August 3rd, 2009
3:18 pm
From The Gay Patriot
A new study, about to be published by a group of experts in military law, shows that President Obama does, in fact, have stroke-of-the-pen authority to suspend gay discharges. The “don’t ask, don’t tell” law requires the military to fire anyone found to be gay or lesbian. But there is nothing requiring the military to make such a finding. The president can simply order the military to stop investigating service members’ sexuality.
An executive order would not get rid of the “don’t ask, don’t tell” law, but would take the critical step of suspending its implementation, hence rendering it effectively dead. Once people see gays and lesbians serving openly, legally and without problems, it will be much easier to get rid of the law at a later time.
Entire piece here:
http://www.gaypatriot.net/2009/05/08/can-president-obama-suspend-implementation-of-dadt/
Finn McCool
August 3rd, 2009
3:20 pm
President Obama can take credit for ending this free fall with his stimulus package. The government sector directly added 1.1 percentage point to the growth rate in the second quarter. This was due partly to additional federal spending (much of it defense-related), but also due to a modest increase in state and local spending. In the prior two quarters, state and local government spending had been contracting, as state and local governments were forced to make cuts in response to budget deficits. The stimulus package allowed them to sustain existing programs and even expand them in some areas
http://www.truthout.org/080309J
Who You Gonna Call
August 3rd, 2009
3:20 pm
Just try yelling at a stupid cop and see what happens to you..
You get forced to drink beer with the President… and the cop too.
RealityKing
August 3rd, 2009
3:22 pm
And to think that science could’ve/would’ve designed a pheromone pill for this behavior disorder years ago.., if it weren’t so progressively incorrect.
Who You Gonna Call
August 3rd, 2009
3:24 pm
It could have simply been an angry ex-lover that did this to the guy. So, unless someone overturns the law, then the law is all they have to work within.
I Report (-: You Whine )-:
August 3rd, 2009
3:24 pm
I agree, now what about Obozo and the growing discontent of US citizens, isn’t this an exciting time in our history?
We’re choking socialism in it’s crib, now there is an abortion I’m all for.
Joey
August 3rd, 2009
3:25 pm
President Obama cannot afford to further reduce his favorable ratings by reversing the D.A.D.T. policy.
No way he will risk National Healthcare, Cap and Trade, Card Check, Clunker Exchange and Stimulus Spending in order to save a few military careers.
I doubt Jay would either. But it will fill the space while Jay is reajusting to work.
Who You Gonna Call
August 3rd, 2009
3:26 pm
And to think that science could’ve/would’ve designed a pheromone pill for this behavior disorder years ago.., if it weren’t so progressively incorrect.
The scientists would have done just that if big business had determined that there was sufficient profit in it for them.
HavingMySay
August 3rd, 2009
3:28 pm
Go ahead and kick him out, if the rules are the rules…. but this man deserves every single dime of his pension, regardless of being short by two years. It wasn’t his choice to leave and he shoud get every dime of his pension.
Getting a pension for hardwork is not about being gay, it’s about the past 18 years of service and the two years he was forced to surrender to idiots. No one should be denied money that was earned.
Mrs. Godzilla
August 3rd, 2009
3:33 pm
anti-gay pills??
LOL
why not anti-homophobe supositories?
Paul
August 3rd, 2009
3:34 pm
Lt Col Fehrenbach’s commanding officer is a pinhead.
I don’t recall where LtCol F ‘told’ anything. He was ‘outed.’ So then the co had to ‘ask.’ The LtCol should have remained silent.
What part of “Don’t” in “Don’t ask” don’t these people understand?
AF Sec Donley could reject the Board’s ‘recommendations.’ He doesn’t need a reason – he has full discretion.
But he probably won’t.
‘Course, SecDef Gates could order an immediate review of all such cases to see if the manner in which the ‘offense’ was discovered violated standards of discovery. He could. But he hasn’t.
Gates: strike 1
Pres Obama: strike 2
Joey
August 3rd, 2009
3:35 pm
I trust that your resentment and frustration over the treatment of Col. Fehrenbach is directed at and shared with the people who can do something about this. Democrat House, Senate and Executive Branch.
George American
August 3rd, 2009
3:38 pm
This is just a semi-non-issue put forward as a red herring to distract the county form the disaster that will be government rationed healthcare.
Back in my day in the navy we did not have fairy boats.
RealityKing
August 3rd, 2009
3:38 pm
The “Halitosis bomb” and “Gay bomb” are informal names for two theoretical non-lethal chemical weapons, which a United States Air Force research laboratory speculated about producing in 1994, which involved discharging female sex pheromones over enemy forces in order to make them sexually attracted to each other. The U.N. regards the ‘gay bomb’ as both an illegal and degrading weapon.
Gale
August 3rd, 2009
3:41 pm
RealityKing: pheromone pil So a guy would smell like a woman to me? Ewwwwww!
Brad Steel
August 3rd, 2009
3:41 pm
We need to evolve from:
Don’t ask. Don’t tell.
to
Doesn’t matter. Don’t care.
All American Gaytriot
August 3rd, 2009
3:43 pm
My buddies and I are hoping for an all-gay military branch.
Paul
August 3rd, 2009
3:44 pm
Mrs. Godzilla 3:18
A novel idea. Clever. But they need to be careful. See, under standard of uniform treatment, any of the DoD Legal Staff who wrote opinions on how to implement the current policy, or who may write opinions to battle that proposal, could face calls by Congress for their prosecution.
Precedent’s with the action towards the DOJ lawyers and the torture opinions.
Pres Bush STILL hasn’t released the memos, btw –
But I still like the idea. Given the Democratic Congress and Administration don’t have the… gumption… to take it on it may be the only way. Legal interpretations and all that –
RW-(the original)
August 3rd, 2009
3:45 pm
Paul,
If you read Jay B’s link it doesn’t sound like Fehrenbach was holding up the “don’t tell” part very well either.
Paul
August 3rd, 2009
3:46 pm
Mrs. Godzilla
Make that “Pres Obama.” Wouldn’t want Kamchak to launch on a Pres Bush/DADT diatribe with a side trip into parts unknown -
stands for decibels
August 3rd, 2009
3:47 pm
erm, RK, if you’re going to copy/paste a wiki entry for support, might want to include the next graf–
In 1994 the Wright Laboratory in Ohio, a predecessor to today’s United States Air Force Research Laboratory, produced a three-page proposal on a variety of possible nonlethal chemical weapons, which was later obtained—complete with marginal jottings and typos—by the Sunshine Project through a Freedom of Information Act request.
Ooooh! a three page report! yep, we were so close to weaponizing that sucker, huh?
RealityKing
August 3rd, 2009
3:48 pm
“It was amazing. I never thought we’d be able to do that sort of thing, because sexual orientation is supposed to be hard-wired,” said David Featherstone, a researcher at the University of Illinois at Chicago who lead the study. “This fundamentally changes how we think about this behavior.”
http://inventorspot.com/articles/scientists_discover_genderblind__9113
RealityKing
August 3rd, 2009
3:48 pm
Of course, science is only benefical when discussed truthfully..
RealityKing
August 3rd, 2009
3:50 pm
Behavior Disorders
noun,
1) Any of various forms of behavior that are considered inappropriate by members of the social group to which an individual belongs.
2) A functional disorder or abnormality.
Definition: Behavior Disorders or BD are conditions that are more than just disruptive behavior. They are related to mental health problems that lead to disruptive behavior, emotional and social problems. People with behavior disorders typically need a variety of professional interventions including medication, psychological treatment, rehabilitation, or possibly other treatments.
stands for decibels
August 3rd, 2009
3:53 pm
A functional disorder or abnormality.
you mean like prattling about on the Interwebs about Gay bombs? yeah, that’s pretty pervy.
Later, all.
HavingMySay
August 3rd, 2009
3:56 pm
I wonder how many of our service men and women in the Air Force could say for sure that Lt. Col. Victor Fehrenbach being gay has had an adverse affect on their sexual orientation. This man has been in the Air Force for 18 years, so we should have seen some type of demoralization of the Air Force overall. If not, then this should be a none-issue.
The Lieutenants 18 year service record could be an excellent study of the effect of gays in the military. I doubt if they looked back over the past 18 years, they would find one person who could sufficiently prove that his leadership or service has been an impact on their orientation.
Paul
August 3rd, 2009
3:57 pm
RW-(the original)
I just don’t know. All I’ve been able to find since this began was that a civilian went to his CO. How the civilian found out and the role the LtCol played hasn’t been stated. My point was, I’d imagine if he’d noncooperated with the investigation it could have gone differently. But maybe the evidence was too out in the open. I just don’t know.
Was listening to a rather irritating field-grade officer during Pres Clinton’s term. He was going on and on about how Pres Clinton couldn’t change things because the Uniform Code of Military Justice was Fed Law and the Pres couldn’t overturn that and the sodomy provisions were quite specific. There was quite a group listening. I’d read the applicable parts and noted that the UCMJ just used the term ’sodomy’ – it did not (how am I going to keep this out of moderation?) distinguish between oral sex and what most of them thought of when they thought of sodomy. So I asked them, based on their bragging and tale telling, if, according to a strict reading, if all of them shouldn’t be prosecuted for engaging in sodomy?
They pretty much lost interest in the irritating major’s pronouncements -
Wyld Byll Hyltnyr
August 3rd, 2009
3:58 pm
ren’t we past this yet? Isn’t it a gross injustice to oust someone two years short of retirement, someone who has served his country faithfully and put his life on the line for America, someone who clearly wants to continue doing so?
First, Jay, i’m proud (and frankly amazed) that you could find a way to blame President bush for this.
Next, no we are not past this. This man is a liar. He knows the military does not allow h*mos. (Yes, DADT exists, but it was made up by the biggest liar of them all, Bill Clinton.) As such, he should be drummed out of the military. His fagg*try is only a symptom of the bigger character flaw; that he is a liar who is not honourable and trustworthy.
I hope they give him a Toby Keith handshake on his way out the door. Guess he’ll be a coming attraction in the stalls at Hartsfield before too long. We can’t abide liars and deceivers in the military.
Paul
August 3rd, 2009
4:04 pm
3:56
Excellent point. Exceptional point. I mean, in the LtCol’s case, we have 18 years of data, don’t we?
RW-(the original)
August 3rd, 2009
4:06 pm
Paul,
At the end of the story Jay linked it says Fehrenbach personally asked Obama about reversing DADT.
Who You Gonna Call
August 3rd, 2009
4:07 pm
Medicine for restless leg syndrome might help those toe tappers too. They could sell it in the airports.
Scooter
August 3rd, 2009
4:11 pm
Wyld Byll, What is a Toby Kieth hand shake?????
I Report (-: You Whine )-:
August 3rd, 2009
4:13 pm
Aahhh, yes, socialism is the, uh, “bomb-”
The numbers could hardly be more stark: Tax receipts are on pace to drop 18 percent this year, the biggest single-year decline since the Great Depression, while the federal deficit balloons to a record $1.8 trillion.
Yes, let’s talk about gay people.
Paul
August 3rd, 2009
4:15 pm
RW-(the original)
Yeah, I believe that was after the inquiry and recommendations went forward.
Scooter,
When are you gonna learn there are just some things you’re better off not asking? or not knowing?
Who You Gonna Call
August 3rd, 2009
4:16 pm
Tax receipts are down. Yay! Lower taxes for all.
Bosch
August 3rd, 2009
4:19 pm
What? Blog God? What?
Sigh.
Oh nevermind!
RealityKing
August 3rd, 2009
4:21 pm
The good news is that the GDP ONLY dropped by 1% last quarter.., progressively speaking of course.
Paul
August 3rd, 2009
4:24 pm
Hmmm. Think of the propaganda value in the Middle East. “Top jihadist commander killed by Hellfire missile fired by gay Air Force Predator pilot.”
Gays defeating Islamists. Let their mullahs mull that one over.
AmVet
August 3rd, 2009
4:29 pm
“The good news is that the GDP ONLY dropped by 1% last quarter.., progressively speaking of course.”
I misread that and thought it said the GOP ONLY dropped 1% last quarter!
But anybody in their right mind knows that is about as possible as the cracker homophobes here moving past the 1950s…
Scooter
August 3rd, 2009
4:33 pm
Paul, I guess I’m just a glutten for punishment. ?????
Paul
August 3rd, 2009
4:37 pm
Scooter
Well, add to that you’re a blogger here and I’d say the evidence is incontrovertible -
Number1ninja
August 3rd, 2009
4:43 pm
Unfortunately, don’t expect it to go away anytime soon either, I don’t think he’ll have the guts.
Wyld Byll Hyltnyr
August 3rd, 2009
4:55 pm
“The good news is that the GDP ONLY dropped by 1% last quarter….”
That the 1% GDP decline is good news is perhaps one of the biggest, among the exponentially growing many, lie propagated by the Obumbler administration. In nature and economics all bodies tend to move toward equilibrium so it is only natural that a GDP decline will slow over time. However, that the rate of decline in GDP slowed to 1% does not portend recovery, rather it just shows that the Obumbler depression has nor gone on for eight months.
Scooter
August 3rd, 2009
4:57 pm
OK Paul, I googgled that big word and you are right!
Paul
August 3rd, 2009
5:00 pm
Scooter
Be sure to let Bosch know if he pops in and I’ve left. He lives for the word of the day.
Chris Salzmann
August 3rd, 2009
5:04 pm
Mort Merkel August 3rd, 2009 3:05 pm SAID: It’s the rules. They’re wrong, but they exist.
CHRIS SAYS: Isn’t that what they said about slavery, segregation, the right to vote, interracial marriage, woman’s rights, discrimination, etc, etc, etc? If it wasn’t about breaking the law, we’d all still be singing “God Save the Queen”.
Chris Salzmann
August 3rd, 2009
5:10 pm
Brad Steel August 3rd, 2009 3:41 pm SAID:
We need to evolve from:
Don’t ask. Don’t tell.
to
Doesn’t matter. Don’t care.
CHRIS SAYS: Yeah, couldn’t agree more. Another thing about “rules” and the rule of law, if the military enforced its rules concerning adultery (i.e. court-martial), then 2/3rds of the military would be booted out. Believe me, I know because I lived on military bases pretty much through my teens.
Normal
August 3rd, 2009
5:18 pm
Back in my day in the navy we did not have fairy boats.
George, I think you were the fairyboat. You head has been stuck somewhere a long time.
Who You Gonna Call
August 3rd, 2009
5:18 pm
Actually, the Bush depression started in December of 2007. Obama is getting us out of it though. Patience is still a virtue.
Paul
August 3rd, 2009
5:22 pm
Off topic.
Well, well, well. Seems our Democratic friends may approve a huge, new bunker buster bomb that can be carried on B2 Stealth bombers and can penetrate 200 feet.
http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssIndustryMaterialsUtilitiesNews/idUSN0213354020090802
But just two years ago, Democrats were ‘alarmed’ that Pres Bush’s request for funds to develop such a weapon signaled an intent to attack Iran.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389×2131966
Amazing what a big difference it makes if there’s a (D) or an (R) after the president’s name, isn’t it?
So I guess the question is, are Pres Obama and leading members of Congress planning a strike on Iran?
Who You Gonna Call
August 3rd, 2009
5:22 pm
White House says no to tax hike for middle class.
That is just not fair to the conservatives. They’ve done everything short of outright beg for it and Obama will not give it to them. It is just not right to deprive them. Write to Obama and demand your tax hike. It is your right.
Scooter
August 3rd, 2009
5:25 pm
Normal, if you don’t mind me asking, what is your opinion on DADT?
Who You Gonna Call
August 3rd, 2009
5:30 pm
After seven months of controlling the White House and Congress, Democrats have slightly expanded their electoral advantage over the GOP, a new Gallup poll finds.
Ouch! I guess those GOP strategies just have not started to pay off yet. Don’t despair. Some things just take time before they kick in. So, stay the course.
Scooter
August 3rd, 2009
5:30 pm
Paul, My answer is no strike. THey don’t have the kahoonas. They will give it to Israel! ?????
DoggoneGA
August 3rd, 2009
5:35 pm
“They’ve done everything short of outright beg for it and Obama will not give it to them”
Yeah, whatever happened to “bipartisanship”? Doesn’t he KNOW that to a con “bipartisanship” means “what I want, not what you want”? I mean REALLY – he’s breaking a cardinal rule here!
@@
August 3rd, 2009
5:38 pm
jay, it seems like they could make an exception for someone so close to retirement, but retire he must ’cause rules are rules. Since it was a civilian that did him in, I guess one could ascertain that LC Fehrenbach doesn’t love guys in uniform? Hell hath no fury like a gay man scorned? He screwed with the……never mind.
~~~~~~~~~OO~~~~~~~~
Put all these tidbits together and what’ve you got?
Israel: 25 U.S. Lawmakers Arrive For Talks
August 3, 2009 0957 GMT
A delegation of 25 U.S. congressmen from the Republican Party began a six-day trip to Israel on Aug. 3, Agence France-Presse reported. The delegation is scheduled to meet Israeli President Shimon Peres, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman, among other officials. A delegation of 30 Democratic lawmakers will make a similar trip the following week.
Iran: Nuclear Weapon Capability Achieved, Awaiting Go-Ahead Order – Source
August 3, 2009 0629 GMT
Iran can build a nuclear weapon and is waiting for Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei to order its construction, an unspecified Western intelligence source said, The Times reported Aug. 3. Should Khamenei give the order, the source said it would take six months to enrich enough uranium and another six months to assemble the warhead. The source also said the 2003 U.S. National Intelligence Estimate which concluded Iran’s nuclear weapon program was ended because of the threat from the U.S. invasion of Iraq is possibly mistaken. New intelligence suggests Iran halted the research because it had accomplished its aim of finding a way of detonating a warhead that could be launched on its long-range Shehab-3 missiles.
August 3, 2009 0727 GMT
The United States will speed the deployment of a new “bunker-buster” bomb, ten-times more powerful than the largest existing model, as soon as July 2010, the Air Force said Aug. 2, Reuters reported. The non-nuclear, 30,000-pound bomb is 20 feet long and is designed to penetrate up to 200 feet underground before exploding. It will be able to be dropped from either the B-52 or the B-2 “stealth” bomber. A contract with the manufacturer, Boeing, could be made within 72 hours to build the first production models once Congress approves the necessary reapportionment of funds.
Paul
August 3rd, 2009
5:39 pm
Scooter
I’m not so sure. Pres Obama strikes me as the kind who’ll explore all kinds of options. But if there’s only one viable one left…
I don’t think Israel could use it. I’m not sure even the F-15E has the load points. It’s a heckuva load and that’s some of the most sophisticated air-defense country in the world. Thank the Russians for that. It’d need a stealth aircraft. But my bet is they’d put together a package to eliminate the air defenses anyhow -
DoggoneGA
August 3rd, 2009
5:43 pm
Scooter…I don’t make a habit of correcting people’s mispellings and such, but in the interests of making sure you’re saying what I *think* you’re saying:
kahoona = a good friend
cojones = balls
Paul
August 3rd, 2009
5:43 pm
@@
Surely you’re not implying… Pres Obama… Democrats…. could even be considering a preemptive war?
jt
August 3rd, 2009
5:49 pm
I thought EVERYONE in the Air Force was gay.
Not that there is anything wrong with that.
Paul
August 3rd, 2009
5:49 pm
@@
Or a preventive war?
Take your pick.
Kamchak
August 3rd, 2009
5:52 pm
Make that “Pres Obama.” Wouldn’t want Kamchak to launch on a Pres Bush/DADT diatribe with a side trip into parts unknown.
You don’t know the difference between Iran and Iraq–and now Bush and Obama and you accuse me of trippin’?!? You need to unsubscribe to that Stratfor newsletter, because it’s not serving you well. I understand that there is a revolutionary information agency that involves a series of equestrians riding non-stop, hand delivering paper communiques. It’s so new that it is unnamed as yet, but the early buzz is that it will be called The Pony Express. This would serve you better and faster than Stratfor.
saywhat?
August 3rd, 2009
5:53 pm
Jay can’t win. If he mentions the economy, the nutters wail about gays infesting the military or the socialization of medicine. If he discusses one of those two subjects , they wail about the lack of attention toward the others.For the past 8 years we survived the unprecedented havoc wreaked by the worst president ever in US history. Everything he touched turned to sh!t; the economy, FEMA, the environment, the military, etc, and when Jay mentioned unprecedented failure after unprecedented failure in his column, the nutters screamed that it wasn’t worth talking about.They apparently have no taste for accurate reporting of history which defies their preconcieved notions of “fact”. They are so blinded by their Obama Derangement Syndrome, that they don’t even recognize when Jay is being obliquely critical of Obama. Idiots.
How’s this for a tip wingnuts- if you don’t like the topic of discussion, go elswhere to discuss what you would like, or get your own column.
As for the topic at hand, I agree with you Jay. DADT is despicable in and of itself, made worse by also being counterproductive to having an effective military. While it was supposed to be a baby step toward ending discrimination against homosexuals in the military, it didn’t work out that way in practice. I would rather Clinton had been bolder ended discrimination completely, and I consider this one of his failures. There is no excuse now, in my mind, for Obama not have ended this injustice immediately upon entering office.That he has not done so is disappointing at best.
Normal
August 3rd, 2009
5:55 pm
Scooter, My opinion of DADT is this. It’s a non issue and started due to stereotyping. I have setrved with gay men and there had been no attempt on their part to “subvert” me. They had better taste than that. I have had my life saved by a gay man in combat. I told someone recently That I was asked to give a formal opinion, while in the Navy, what I felt about gays. I simply pointed out the Roman Army. An Army that conquered the known world, would have been considered gay by our standards. The ones who scream the loudest about gays in the service are the ones that deep inside wonder if they aren’t gay…just an opinion.
Paul
August 3rd, 2009
5:56 pm
Kamchak
Bait, cast and strike!
LOLOL!
Paul
August 3rd, 2009
5:58 pm
Kamchak
Ummmm. My links? You thing Stratfor is the same as Reuters… or the Democratic Underground?!!? This is too good….
Who You Gonna Call
August 3rd, 2009
5:59 pm
Stratfor — Isn’t that ‘code’ for ‘there’s a sucker born every minute’. I recall someone mentioning that they actually pay this outfit to pull out its 70s vintage magic eight ball and predict the future for them. Dang. I wish I had thought of that one. Easy money. I’d even be willing to pay taxes on that.
Paul
August 3rd, 2009
6:01 pm
Who you gonna call
So now you’e gonna regale us with your strategic analyses? Independent of any source? Maybe I can peruse past postings and see what you’ve contributed in this regards….
This isn’t even a fair fight… oh well….
Paul
August 3rd, 2009
6:07 pm
Kamchak/Who you gonna call
Well, if we can’t have independent thought, perhaps you could begin with a critique? A bit of light reading on the recent history of Democratic patterns in foreign policy, Obama’s statements and likely outcomes. Then think about the ‘results’ of his European efforts and his moves in Iraq and Afg and tell us where the analysis if off.
http://www.stratfor.com/analysis/20080923_obamas_foreign_policy_stance_open_access
@@
August 3rd, 2009
6:07 pm
Paul:
It WOULD be a SHOCK and AWE, fer shur.
Next thing ‘ya know, Obama will be wearing cowboy boots and walkin’ with a swagger.
I’m not sure this isn’t all….psychological warfare. Gates was over in Israel talkin about providing Iraq with some kind of fighter jet. Made no attempt to keep it hush hush.
I’m also not sure how a strike against Iran’s nuclear site would eliminate Russia’s leverage. Putin’s moving on Georgia, did you know that?
I’m having a hard time keeping up with it all.
I alerted you to a couple of articles in Stratfor. “The Russian Economy and Russian Power” and “Iraq, Turkey and the Kurdish Issue”. Somethin’ else….Medvedev’s approval ratings are at 68% — Putin’s at 77%. There ain’t no divide there.
Kamchak
August 3rd, 2009
6:09 pm
Ummmm. My links? You thing(sic) Stratfor is the same as Reuters…
This isn’t even a fair fight… oh well….
Nope. The difference is night and day.
Paul
August 3rd, 2009
6:11 pm
@@
Psych Warfare or cleaning up after the SecState?
Gates was talking about Israel getting the F35 – joint strike fighter.
I meant to thank you for those references. Good articles.Thanks.
Russia will still seek leverage. But we’d rather they did it with a nonnuclear Iran.
It would be a mess -
Curious Observer
August 3rd, 2009
6:14 pm
I have served with gay men and there had been no attempt on their part to “subvert” me.
I don’t know how things are in the military now, but when I was on active duty in the Marine Corps the atmosphere was rabidly anti-gay. We had lectures warning us of the judicial fate that awaited anyone found to engage in homosexual activity, and the anti-gay slurs were everywhere.
I now find it deplorable that people rendering honorable military service can be discharged for being gay, but my attitude doesn’t necessarily mean that the views of the military itself have changed. Before anyone decides that simply eliminating DADT will solve the problem, perhaps people need to give some consideration to the nature of the military culture. Anyone who has studied management knows that a culture is the most difficult organizational aspect to change. I doubt that the service of openly gay men and women would be enjoyable or even tolerable, given prevailing military attitudes. While Normal may have recognized gay men as fellow sailors, I certainly did not recognize any Marines as such, even though there probably were some. The issue of sexual orientation was simply too repressed by the culture for that.
In short, I don’t think it’s as simple as eliminating DADT.
Who You Gonna Call
August 3rd, 2009
6:15 pm
Who you gonna call
So now you’e gonna regale us with your strategic analyses? Independent of any source?
Awwww. Did I strike yet another nerve. How unfair of me.
Maybe I can peruse past postings and see what you’ve contributed in this regards….
Maybe you can, maybe you cannot. Go for it.
This isn’t even a fair fight… oh well….
Hardly a fight, dude. I was toying with you. Bait and all, you know.
jt
August 3rd, 2009
6:16 pm
Normal-
“I have setrved with gay men and there had been no attempt on their part to “subvert” me.”
“They had better taste than that.”
Do you think this might of had something to do with you eating “baloo”.(those rotten duck eggs).
I got hit on all the time by gay Navy dudes. I got hit on by the Navy women too. It was just part of the job.
Alas, it happens in the civilian world too. It’s The price I pay for being me. It ain’t easy.
Who You Gonna Call
August 3rd, 2009
6:19 pm
Kamchak/Who you gonna call
Well, if we can’t have independent thought, perhaps you could begin with a critique? A bit of light reading on the recent history of Democratic patterns in foreign policy, Obama’s statements and likely outcomes. Then think about the ‘results’ of his European efforts and his moves in Iraq and Afg and tell us where the analysis if off.
Then again, you could provide the critique. It is your article. And, it’s from stratfor. ewwww. What did I just finish saying about stratfor.
I Report :-) You Whine :-(
August 3rd, 2009
6:20 pm
YOKOHAMA, Japan – Nissan Chief Executive Carlos Ghosn drove quietly out of the Japanese automaker’s soon-to-open headquarters Sunday in the first public viewing of its new ~~~~~~~~~~~zero-emission~~~~~~~~~~ vehicle.
It was the first time the external design was shown of Nissan Motor Co.’s environmentally friendly electric automobile, set to go on sale in Japan, the U.S. and Europe next year. The blue hatchback had a sporty design and a recharging opening in the front.-Yahoo
So, uh, where does the electricity used to charge it come from?
geez
Paul
August 3rd, 2009
6:20 pm
Who you gonna 6:15
[I was toying with you. Bait and all, you know.]]
Please see my 5:56. Try to go for originality, okay?
Paul
August 3rd, 2009
6:24 pm
Kamchak/Who you gonna call
You sure you aren’t related?
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1C1GGLS_enUS338US338&defl=en&q=define:peanut+gallery&ei=GWF3SsHjDMS_tgfVzuyWCQ&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title
Report/Whine
[[So, uh, where does the electricity used to charge it come from?]]
Not from Mideast oil?
But, do we really think people opposed to putting up an oil rig so far away you can’t see it, or who object to solar panels in the middle of the desert because it ‘destroys the pristine beauty’ are really gonna go for more power plants to generate the electricity?
AmVet
August 3rd, 2009
6:31 pm
Gays are just the new Jews for the hate-filled right wing.
And the Mexicalis and Mooslims are the new n words.
Same sociopathy, different faces, that’s all…
Normal
August 3rd, 2009
6:33 pm
jt
August 3rd, 2009
6:16 pm I don’t know JT, that kind of stuff never bothered me, Yeah, in some cases I would be hit on, but after talking for a while, an understanding would be reached and a friendship formed.
It all goes back to what I was taught growing up. Mom said, the color of a mans skin don’t matter, it’s what’s inside him that counts. The next logical step for me was to apply that to all things human. We all have something to give.
But pardon my wandering with my word. I’m out sick today and am quite dizzy. I think I’m going to bed now…Goodnight.
Kamchak
August 3rd, 2009
6:33 pm
A Stratfor link? Been there, done that, got the T-shirt. Don’t you have something from HotAir, RedState or even Fox news?
As for “light reading”, might I direct you to:
Patterns of the Hypnotic Technique of Milton H. Erickson M.D. Vols. 1 & 2 by Richard Bandler and John Grinder.
The Structure of Magic Vols. 1 & 2 also by Richard Bandler and John Grinder.
The Spirit of NLP by L. Michael Hall
I highly recommend the latter as it is written in E prime.
Paul
August 3rd, 2009
6:39 pm
Kamchak
Serious question.
When have you osted something original, something thoughtful, something at all analytical, something that stays on point, when you disagree with a poster? Seems a large part of the responses consist of just going the personal ridicule route.
Seems to be a hallmark of the Left when at a loss for reason -
I Report :-) You Whine :-(
August 3rd, 2009
7:45 pm
Whoa, crash.
~~~~~
Haha ha ha-
http://c0139242.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/f062dda5-796e-4fe7-aa3c-87e8d5bb4590.jpg
Cobb County rocks!
Who You Gonna Call
August 3rd, 2009
8:01 pm
That was a good crash there. Did y’all get struck by lightning or something, Jay?
jt
August 3rd, 2009
8:03 pm
I Report
You Whine 
August 3rd, 2009
7:45 pm
Is that Photo shopped?
If I lived close, I would confirm.
Kamchak
August 3rd, 2009
8:03 pm
When have you osted(sic) something original, something thoughtful, something at all analytical, something that stays on point, when you disagree with a poster? Seems a large part of the responses consist of just going through the personal ridicule route.
Seems to be a hallmark of the Left when at a loss for reason -
Fair question. Care to define numerically what constitutes large part of the responses?
Loss for reason? Reason as defined by you?
Finn McCool
August 3rd, 2009
8:03 pm
Hey how much was the Dow Jones up today?
Hehehehehehehe. It takes a Kenyan to lead America out of the Bush wasteland??
jt
August 3rd, 2009
8:04 pm
Paul and Kamchak need a beer summit.