Another nonsensical, unjust application of ‘Don’t ask, don’t tell’
Today’s Washington Post outlines the case of Air Force Lt. Col. Victor Fehrenbach, a decorated 18-year veteran “who has flown combat missions in F-15E fighters and other aircraft over Afghanistan, Iraq and Bosnia, and now serves as assistant director of operations for an Air Force squadron in Idaho.”
Last year, after a civilian reported that Fehrenbach is gay, the Air Force began legal proceedings that will soon force the decorated colonel out of the service, two years before he is eligible for retirement benefits of nearly $50,000 a year.
Aren’t we past this yet? Isn’t it a gross injustice to oust someone two years short of retirement, someone who has served his country faithfully and put his life on the line for America, someone who clearly wants to continue doing so?
And why exactly are we doing this?
Stop the insanity.
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201 comments Add your comment
Gandalf - First!
August 3rd, 2009
2:48 pm
1st!!!
go adam – you’re dreamy
TUESDAY VANDY GIRL
August 3rd, 2009
2:55 pm
Good non-story to hide the growing DISCONTENT in the heartland, as the congresstards fan out to their districts, with Obamacare.
Kamchak
August 3rd, 2009
2:57 pm
Aren’t we past this yet? Isn’t it a gross injustice to oust someone two years short of retirement, someone who has served his country faithfully and put his life on the line for America, someone who clearly wants to continue doing so?
With a little rewording we can also say—Isn’t it a gross injustice to oust someone two years short of corporate retirement because it will boost the bottom line through denied retirement benefits? Someone who has served the corporation and it’s profits faithfully putting in long hours off the books is getting dismissed because he/she is too old.
Gale
August 3rd, 2009
2:58 pm
Would it really take anything more than an executive order to place a moratorium on discharge proceedings for gay servicemen? Everyone but a few maladjusted E1s and E2s can see this is a regulation that is not in the interest of national defense.
RW-(the original)
August 3rd, 2009
3:04 pm
And why exactly are we doing this?
To preserve Clinton’s legacy?
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
August 3rd, 2009
3:05 pm
Well, this is what happens when a librul like Clinton lets them in the military to start with. Anyhow, all this guy needed to do was keep his mouth shut a couple more years and not do You Know What with another gay and he would be drawing his pension. But no, he had to go blabbing to somebody. Or fooling around with a civilian that ratted on him.
So there’s nothing nobody can do about it now and he’s a goner. We would be alot better off if we just kept them out of the military to start with. But no, we had to go waste 18 years of training on this guy and all for nothing, as it turns out. I told the missus when this Don’t Ask Don’t Tell stuff started it would all turn out bad because it’s a Sin Against God. And it turns out I was right.
Have a good night everybody.
Mort Merkel
August 3rd, 2009
3:05 pm
It’s the rules. They’re wrong, but they exist.
stands for decibels
August 3rd, 2009
3:11 pm
Would it really take anything more than an executive order to place a moratorium on discharge proceedings for gay servicemen?
I’ve wondered that very thing more than a few times myself. Certainly the Administration would have us believe the answer is yes. Don’t know if I buy it though.
Mrs. Godzilla
August 3rd, 2009
3:11 pm
I am extremely unhappy with the President’s choice NOT to reverse this by executive order.
RealityKing
August 3rd, 2009
3:14 pm
rules are rules. Just try yelling at a stupid cop and see what happens to you..
Angry Black Man
August 3rd, 2009
3:15 pm
DADT needs to go the way of the T-Rex. Maybe it can be compacted and produce fossil fuels in a few million years
Mrs. Godzilla
August 3rd, 2009
3:18 pm
From The Gay Patriot
A new study, about to be published by a group of experts in military law, shows that President Obama does, in fact, have stroke-of-the-pen authority to suspend gay discharges. The “don’t ask, don’t tell” law requires the military to fire anyone found to be gay or lesbian. But there is nothing requiring the military to make such a finding. The president can simply order the military to stop investigating service members’ sexuality.
An executive order would not get rid of the “don’t ask, don’t tell” law, but would take the critical step of suspending its implementation, hence rendering it effectively dead. Once people see gays and lesbians serving openly, legally and without problems, it will be much easier to get rid of the law at a later time.
Entire piece here:
http://www.gaypatriot.net/2009/05/08/can-president-obama-suspend-implementation-of-dadt/
Finn McCool
August 3rd, 2009
3:20 pm
President Obama can take credit for ending this free fall with his stimulus package. The government sector directly added 1.1 percentage point to the growth rate in the second quarter. This was due partly to additional federal spending (much of it defense-related), but also due to a modest increase in state and local spending. In the prior two quarters, state and local government spending had been contracting, as state and local governments were forced to make cuts in response to budget deficits. The stimulus package allowed them to sustain existing programs and even expand them in some areas
http://www.truthout.org/080309J
Who You Gonna Call
August 3rd, 2009
3:20 pm
Just try yelling at a stupid cop and see what happens to you..
You get forced to drink beer with the President… and the cop too.
RealityKing
August 3rd, 2009
3:22 pm
And to think that science could’ve/would’ve designed a pheromone pill for this behavior disorder years ago.., if it weren’t so progressively incorrect.
Who You Gonna Call
August 3rd, 2009
3:24 pm
It could have simply been an angry ex-lover that did this to the guy. So, unless someone overturns the law, then the law is all they have to work within.
I Report (-: You Whine )-:
August 3rd, 2009
3:24 pm
I agree, now what about Obozo and the growing discontent of US citizens, isn’t this an exciting time in our history?
We’re choking socialism in it’s crib, now there is an abortion I’m all for.
Joey
August 3rd, 2009
3:25 pm
President Obama cannot afford to further reduce his favorable ratings by reversing the D.A.D.T. policy.
No way he will risk National Healthcare, Cap and Trade, Card Check, Clunker Exchange and Stimulus Spending in order to save a few military careers.
I doubt Jay would either. But it will fill the space while Jay is reajusting to work.
Who You Gonna Call
August 3rd, 2009
3:26 pm
And to think that science could’ve/would’ve designed a pheromone pill for this behavior disorder years ago.., if it weren’t so progressively incorrect.
The scientists would have done just that if big business had determined that there was sufficient profit in it for them.
HavingMySay
August 3rd, 2009
3:28 pm
Go ahead and kick him out, if the rules are the rules…. but this man deserves every single dime of his pension, regardless of being short by two years. It wasn’t his choice to leave and he shoud get every dime of his pension.
Getting a pension for hardwork is not about being gay, it’s about the past 18 years of service and the two years he was forced to surrender to idiots. No one should be denied money that was earned.
Mrs. Godzilla
August 3rd, 2009
3:33 pm
anti-gay pills??
LOL
why not anti-homophobe supositories?
Paul
August 3rd, 2009
3:34 pm
Lt Col Fehrenbach’s commanding officer is a pinhead.
I don’t recall where LtCol F ‘told’ anything. He was ‘outed.’ So then the co had to ‘ask.’ The LtCol should have remained silent.
What part of “Don’t” in “Don’t ask” don’t these people understand?
AF Sec Donley could reject the Board’s ‘recommendations.’ He doesn’t need a reason – he has full discretion.
But he probably won’t.
‘Course, SecDef Gates could order an immediate review of all such cases to see if the manner in which the ‘offense’ was discovered violated standards of discovery. He could. But he hasn’t.
Gates: strike 1
Pres Obama: strike 2
Joey
August 3rd, 2009
3:35 pm
I trust that your resentment and frustration over the treatment of Col. Fehrenbach is directed at and shared with the people who can do something about this. Democrat House, Senate and Executive Branch.
George American
August 3rd, 2009
3:38 pm
This is just a semi-non-issue put forward as a red herring to distract the county form the disaster that will be government rationed healthcare.
Back in my day in the navy we did not have fairy boats.
RealityKing
August 3rd, 2009
3:38 pm
The “Halitosis bomb” and “Gay bomb” are informal names for two theoretical non-lethal chemical weapons, which a United States Air Force research laboratory speculated about producing in 1994, which involved discharging female sex pheromones over enemy forces in order to make them sexually attracted to each other. The U.N. regards the ‘gay bomb’ as both an illegal and degrading weapon.
Gale
August 3rd, 2009
3:41 pm
RealityKing: pheromone pil So a guy would smell like a woman to me? Ewwwwww!
Brad Steel
August 3rd, 2009
3:41 pm
We need to evolve from:
Don’t ask. Don’t tell.
to
Doesn’t matter. Don’t care.
All American Gaytriot
August 3rd, 2009
3:43 pm
My buddies and I are hoping for an all-gay military branch.
Paul
August 3rd, 2009
3:44 pm
Mrs. Godzilla 3:18
A novel idea. Clever. But they need to be careful. See, under standard of uniform treatment, any of the DoD Legal Staff who wrote opinions on how to implement the current policy, or who may write opinions to battle that proposal, could face calls by Congress for their prosecution.
Precedent’s with the action towards the DOJ lawyers and the torture opinions.
Pres Bush STILL hasn’t released the memos, btw –
But I still like the idea. Given the Democratic Congress and Administration don’t have the… gumption… to take it on it may be the only way. Legal interpretations and all that –
RW-(the original)
August 3rd, 2009
3:45 pm
Paul,
If you read Jay B’s link it doesn’t sound like Fehrenbach was holding up the “don’t tell” part very well either.
Paul
August 3rd, 2009
3:46 pm
Mrs. Godzilla
Make that “Pres Obama.” Wouldn’t want Kamchak to launch on a Pres Bush/DADT diatribe with a side trip into parts unknown -
stands for decibels
August 3rd, 2009
3:47 pm
erm, RK, if you’re going to copy/paste a wiki entry for support, might want to include the next graf–
In 1994 the Wright Laboratory in Ohio, a predecessor to today’s United States Air Force Research Laboratory, produced a three-page proposal on a variety of possible nonlethal chemical weapons, which was later obtained—complete with marginal jottings and typos—by the Sunshine Project through a Freedom of Information Act request.
Ooooh! a three page report! yep, we were so close to weaponizing that sucker, huh?
RealityKing
August 3rd, 2009
3:48 pm
“It was amazing. I never thought we’d be able to do that sort of thing, because sexual orientation is supposed to be hard-wired,” said David Featherstone, a researcher at the University of Illinois at Chicago who lead the study. “This fundamentally changes how we think about this behavior.”
http://inventorspot.com/articles/scientists_discover_genderblind__9113
RealityKing
August 3rd, 2009
3:48 pm
Of course, science is only benefical when discussed truthfully..
RealityKing
August 3rd, 2009
3:50 pm
Behavior Disorders
noun,
1) Any of various forms of behavior that are considered inappropriate by members of the social group to which an individual belongs.
2) A functional disorder or abnormality.
Definition: Behavior Disorders or BD are conditions that are more than just disruptive behavior. They are related to mental health problems that lead to disruptive behavior, emotional and social problems. People with behavior disorders typically need a variety of professional interventions including medication, psychological treatment, rehabilitation, or possibly other treatments.
stands for decibels
August 3rd, 2009
3:53 pm
A functional disorder or abnormality.
you mean like prattling about on the Interwebs about Gay bombs? yeah, that’s pretty pervy.
Later, all.
HavingMySay
August 3rd, 2009
3:56 pm
I wonder how many of our service men and women in the Air Force could say for sure that Lt. Col. Victor Fehrenbach being gay has had an adverse affect on their sexual orientation. This man has been in the Air Force for 18 years, so we should have seen some type of demoralization of the Air Force overall. If not, then this should be a none-issue.
The Lieutenants 18 year service record could be an excellent study of the effect of gays in the military. I doubt if they looked back over the past 18 years, they would find one person who could sufficiently prove that his leadership or service has been an impact on their orientation.
Paul
August 3rd, 2009
3:57 pm
RW-(the original)
I just don’t know. All I’ve been able to find since this began was that a civilian went to his CO. How the civilian found out and the role the LtCol played hasn’t been stated. My point was, I’d imagine if he’d noncooperated with the investigation it could have gone differently. But maybe the evidence was too out in the open. I just don’t know.
Was listening to a rather irritating field-grade officer during Pres Clinton’s term. He was going on and on about how Pres Clinton couldn’t change things because the Uniform Code of Military Justice was Fed Law and the Pres couldn’t overturn that and the sodomy provisions were quite specific. There was quite a group listening. I’d read the applicable parts and noted that the UCMJ just used the term ’sodomy’ – it did not (how am I going to keep this out of moderation?) distinguish between oral sex and what most of them thought of when they thought of sodomy. So I asked them, based on their bragging and tale telling, if, according to a strict reading, if all of them shouldn’t be prosecuted for engaging in sodomy?
They pretty much lost interest in the irritating major’s pronouncements -
Wyld Byll Hyltnyr
August 3rd, 2009
3:58 pm
ren’t we past this yet? Isn’t it a gross injustice to oust someone two years short of retirement, someone who has served his country faithfully and put his life on the line for America, someone who clearly wants to continue doing so?
First, Jay, i’m proud (and frankly amazed) that you could find a way to blame President bush for this.
Next, no we are not past this. This man is a liar. He knows the military does not allow h*mos. (Yes, DADT exists, but it was made up by the biggest liar of them all, Bill Clinton.) As such, he should be drummed out of the military. His fagg*try is only a symptom of the bigger character flaw; that he is a liar who is not honourable and trustworthy.
I hope they give him a Toby Keith handshake on his way out the door. Guess he’ll be a coming attraction in the stalls at Hartsfield before too long. We can’t abide liars and deceivers in the military.
Paul
August 3rd, 2009
4:04 pm
3:56
Excellent point. Exceptional point. I mean, in the LtCol’s case, we have 18 years of data, don’t we?
RW-(the original)
August 3rd, 2009
4:06 pm
Paul,
At the end of the story Jay linked it says Fehrenbach personally asked Obama about reversing DADT.
Who You Gonna Call
August 3rd, 2009
4:07 pm
Medicine for restless leg syndrome might help those toe tappers too. They could sell it in the airports.
Scooter
August 3rd, 2009
4:11 pm
Wyld Byll, What is a Toby Kieth hand shake?????
I Report (-: You Whine )-:
August 3rd, 2009
4:13 pm
Aahhh, yes, socialism is the, uh, “bomb-”
The numbers could hardly be more stark: Tax receipts are on pace to drop 18 percent this year, the biggest single-year decline since the Great Depression, while the federal deficit balloons to a record $1.8 trillion.
Yes, let’s talk about gay people.
Paul
August 3rd, 2009
4:15 pm
RW-(the original)
Yeah, I believe that was after the inquiry and recommendations went forward.
Scooter,
When are you gonna learn there are just some things you’re better off not asking? or not knowing?
Who You Gonna Call
August 3rd, 2009
4:16 pm
Tax receipts are down. Yay! Lower taxes for all.
Bosch
August 3rd, 2009
4:19 pm
What? Blog God? What?
Sigh.
Oh nevermind!
RealityKing
August 3rd, 2009
4:21 pm
The good news is that the GDP ONLY dropped by 1% last quarter.., progressively speaking of course.
Paul
August 3rd, 2009
4:24 pm
Hmmm. Think of the propaganda value in the Middle East. “Top jihadist commander killed by Hellfire missile fired by gay Air Force Predator pilot.”
Gays defeating Islamists. Let their mullahs mull that one over.
AmVet
August 3rd, 2009
4:29 pm
“The good news is that the GDP ONLY dropped by 1% last quarter.., progressively speaking of course.”
I misread that and thought it said the GOP ONLY dropped 1% last quarter!
But anybody in their right mind knows that is about as possible as the cracker homophobes here moving past the 1950s…