Why a sudden shift in earned income to the already well-paid?

the payroll tax, which isn’t collected on salary and wages above the legal ceiling, which this year is $106,800.

I sometimes wonder what percentage of Americans even realize this.

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(See comments below, no doubt).

heh.

But we ought to talk about it as a nation

Good luck with that. Sociamalist! Crypto-FASCIST!!!!111!!!ELEVENTYS!!!!

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Nothing should be “done” about it except by individuals, let me guess, bookman advocates the government penalizing the highly successful.

You too can overcome the “unfairness” of it all, graduate from high school, study hard in college, build a profitable business plan, work the hours necessary to make it happen.

Another route to highly compensated success is to become beloved by the democrat party and sell government favors in return for cushy jobs and book deals like the Obozo’s did.

Or you can whine from your high chair until the government gives you a whopping 400 bucks to stifle your crying.

Whoop dee do.

Government ain’t the answer, it is the problem.

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“Because social security is designed to pay for yourself, not to be a socialist redistribution of wealth”

Actually, no it isn’t. It’s the biggest, legal Ponzi scheme going.

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Doggone/GA

July 22nd, 2009
8:10 am

Because of the limit on benefits. That said, it should probably be eliminated at this point, along with several other simple modifications.

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Why the jealousy? I suppose you want the government to get involved and control the pay of private companies? Perhaps you should would about the “plank in your eye, rather than the spec in your brothers”. You too can be a top earner if you are willing to do what it takes to get there, so quit whining about what other people are doing. Nobody is robbing from the poor to give to the rich, those who do deserve prison, but economics is not a zero sum game.

America’s biggest problem is that people are far to concerned about what others do and not concerned enough about what they themselves are doing. Don’t worry about these people, worry about yourselves. If everybody took care of themseleves, then nobody would need to be taken care of save for the sick and injured.

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Doggone/GA

July 22nd, 2009
8:15 am

A Ponzi scheme is known fraud. SS is a pyramid scheme. The scary thing is we’re the first generation to be able to draw full benefits. That said, it has been a successful program and can continue to be with minor tinkering. The automatic annual COLA put in during the Nixon administration, tho needed, threw it out of balance.

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If your economic policies caused a sunstantial deepening in unemployment, massive losses in federal revenue, wage depletion, equity value losses on a scale not seen since the 1930’s, and, you are a democrat, then just lie like a rug to the American people, who you have no respect for and think are too stupid to understand-

White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel told The New York Times Obama intends to use the news conference as a “six-month report card,” to talk about “how we rescued the economy from the worst recession”

laughable

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SS is an insurance, benefit are based on amount paid in. If we eliminate the salary cap, we should increase the payment cap. The more you pay in, the higher your payments. No need to change that. We need to eliminate SS in the long run. The old need to get what they have been expecting and the young need to realize that there will be no money left with or without SS.

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Sheesh Jay, you’ll get a raise if, and only if, this gentleman deems it warrented.

What an incredible story.

JAMES C. KENNEDY
Chairman
Cox Enterprises, Inc.

James C. Kennedy is chairman of privately-held Cox Enterprises, Inc., a leading communications, media and automotive services company. He is the grandson of former Ohio Governor and presidential candidate James M. Cox, who founded the company in 1898. He also serves as chairman of the board for Cox Radio, Inc.

Kennedy has been with Cox since 1972, starting as a production assistant with Atlanta newspapers, where he held various positions including reporter, copy editor, advertising salesman, business manager and executive vice president/general manager. In 1979, he was named president of Grand Junction (Colorado) Newspapers, Inc. and, a few months later, publisher of the Grand Junction Daily Sentinel. While at the Daily Sentinel, he served as Chairman of the Colorado Division of Wildlife Commission and was awarded Conservationist of the Year.

In 1985, Kennedy transferred back to Atlanta as vice president of Cox Newspapers, a subsidiary of Cox Enterprises. He was named executive vice president of Cox Enterprises the following year, and in January 1988, Kennedy was named chairman and chief executive officer.

For what it is worth, I would love for you to get a big raise.

You deserve it.

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You do know that the politicians you want to control private pay are dirty stinkin’ rich, right? What ever congress imposses on the private citizen, must necessarily apply it to themselves. They cannot exempt themselves like they did with government healthcare.

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Do you mean that the CEO of Cox got his job by birth? Doesn’t that hurt the little people trying to be successful.

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Social security benefits are a joke! Those who benefit from social security beneftis are those who have never paid in. However, you can not win elections if you do not pay off the dependent society the democrats have created.

Those who pay in and are entitled to receive the SS benefits are getting a lot less than they should because of the redistribution of money to those who do not pay in. If you want to help those dependent citizens, then write a check from your bank account and send it to them. It is allowed.

You want SS to survive? Then do away with the liberal democrat giveaways to those who do not earn it. Problem solved.

Sounds like Jay wants to tax the rich one more way. I guess I am lucky that I am not rich. I do not have to worry about people like Jay trying to steal my money.

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How dare those Execs/Mgr’s receive more pay than the mailroom cart pusher. This is an OUTRAGE!!

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wbk

July 22nd, 2009
8:40 am

If you don’t pay in, you don’t get a benefit. What about all the ones that do pay in and never collect a dime? SSI does not come out of the SS trust fund:

Supplemental Security Income (SSI) is a Federal income supplement program funded by general tax revenues (not Social Security taxes):

It is designed to help aged, blind, and disabled people, who have little or no income; and

It provides cash to meet basic needs for food, clothing, and shelter.

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/ssi/index.htm

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Jay,

I did not spot any discussion regarding the trickle-down effect. I think it is reasonable to assume that the Republican party’s laissez faire philosophy and practices have also aided and abetted the money hungry even without listing specifics.

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Gelding,

I don’t want the government “redistributing” any of my money. How absurd!!

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“How dare those Execs/Mgr’s receive more pay than the mailroom cart pusher. This is an OUTRAGE!!”

that’s right, TF, totally miss the point and pat yourself on the back for doing so.

I don’t care that C-level folks make more than I do – I expect them to. However, when the salary they are making is an obscene multiple of the lowest person’s salary … without including their bonuses and stock options … then, yes, I think that public outrage is in order. Especially when this same public – you know, the ones that actually do the work – are not only NOT reaping rewards, but are seeing their salaries grow at a slower pace than inflation.

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Kayaker 71

July 22nd, 2009
8:48 am

They wouldn’t have to if every working person was paid a living wage!

Absurd? Well it’s the American way, and has been at least since the Great Depression.

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“Trickle down is a warm yellow stream” – truer words were never typed! As for me, I am so thankful that my company gave me a .30 merit raise! I scored the highest score on my review and never missed a day of work. Oh and my benefits are going up 20% and my 401k matching went from 6% – 4%. I am grateful to the CEO’s, I mean master!

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Blue

Fine. So why should a person making, say, 20 times the average household income pay a total tax rate that’s only a small fraction of the average household? I’m speaking of rate, not gross amount.

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The same men yelling socialism, communism, Obozo, etc., are the same white men collecting more unemployment benefits than any demographic in the nation. Go figure.

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Kay

Don’t count your chickens… if a disparate impact is alleged, you could lose it all….

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And it’s not like these executives really “earn” it. Remember the days of pay for play? If LeBron James does play he doesn’t ear full salary. If the Cleveland cavaliers have a losing season, he too loses out.

What we have now are executives with no vested interest in the well-being of the companies they are now running. They didn’t start the companies and they haven’t been working there for years. They also know that they will get their mega salaries and golden parachutes NO MATTER WHAT. The company performs badly and profitable rank and file employees are laid off or lose benefit. Executives drive corporations into the ground AND THEY GET PAID everything and then some.

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“They didn’t start the companies and they haven’t been working there for years. They also know that they will get their mega salaries and golden parachutes NO MATTER WHAT. The company performs badly and profitable rank and file employees are laid off or lose benefit. Executives drive corporations into the ground AND TEHY GET PAID everything and then some.”

lovelyliz … as always, you are my hero

well said.

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“Doggone GA; it’s not that I ‘got mine’. It’s that I ‘earned mine’. YOU, on the other hand, have NOT earned mine.”

“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man’s oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. ”
John Kenneth Galbraith

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Man, that Obama is more like his predecessor than I thought:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/07/21/obama-irks-democrats-declaring-ignore-legislation/?test=latestnews

“During the previous administration, all of us were critical of (Bush’s) assertion that he could pick and choose which aspects of congressional statutes he was required to enforce,” the Democrats wrote in their letter to Obama. “We were therefore chagrined to see you appear to express a similar attitude.”

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USinUK @8:05AM — Yea right UK! I’m still waiting for the trickle down in the trickled down economy to work!

Doggone @8:20AM- See what I mean! You’re sooo right Doggone. Compassionate conservatism at it’s finest!!!

Gelding @8:21AM- SS has been one of the most successful programs ever initiated, and zillions of elderly and less fortunate would be destitute with the extra little tidbit. Tell that to the “I’ve got mine,” crowd. SS should be left alone and used for what it was intended. No borrowing to finance some stupid whatever.

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Then why not have a flat tax, then no one on either side can “biotch” about getting a raw deal. Most people are at the income level they CHOSE by virtue of their sacrifices, whether thru school loans, hard work, and long hours…others CHOSE to leave school, hang with their homeys, and now want the ones who did the work to support them.

YOU ARE WHERE YOU CHOOSE TO BE.

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“The recession in Georgia has hit all demographic groups hard, but white men the hardest, according to a report issued today by the Labor Department.”

Poetic justice? Guess egos a loser.

But, but, but, ‘w’ has a chainsaw…and manteats makes me feel like a man…bwaaaaaaaa

Use the time in the unemployment line to grow a brain – and a pair

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Some funny thinking…..

When we critiqued military policy – we hated the troops.

When we questioned the President’s policies – we hated real Americans.

When we wanted women to have sovereignty over their own bodies – we were baby killers.

When we wanted healthcare for all – we were socialists.

Now, we want fairness in wages – and we are jealous…..

It’s amazing to me just how little the “little” right actually know
about what Americans feel.

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Social security, when it was created, was criticized as something that would become an income redistribution scheme. The politicians who created it set the payroll cap to keep it from ever becoming an income redistribution scheme because that was not the purpose of it. And it was promised over and over that it would never become such.

Now people want it to be an income redistribution scheme. This is why you should never trust government programs. When they start, the politicians swear it will be one thing…. And then once it’s become law, it morphs into whatever they want it to be, no matter what promises were made to voters who approved it.

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I’m not in favor of phasing Social Security out, as some have suggested. The simple fact is that the majority of American workers simply cannot save enough to fund their retirement years, even with tax-deferred contributions. Yes, it seems at first glance an outrage that earned income after the first $106,000 or so is exempt from Social Security withholding, but raising the threshhold is not a long-term solution to the funding problem, if maximum benefit levels are raised correspondingly, as they should be. Congress exercised the power to raise the required contribution levels over and over (and widen the categories of eligible beneficiaries) since the system was founded; it also has the power to raise them again. That’s the painful but necessary solution to the funding problem.

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“Then why not have a flat tax, then no one on either side can “biotch” about getting a raw deal”

I’m happy to vote for that … just not a sales tax – an flat income tax.

although, that does lead one to wonder, what would the GOP do without their favorite “solution” (tax cuts!)

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Doggone/GA

“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man’s oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. ”
John Kenneth Galbraith

You can pick and choose quotes from people that are obviously liberal all you like, and it has no bearing or validity to me. I consider myself superior to NO man, but consider myself very blessed. I also help a LOT of people who struggle. I live my life by the credo “I believe God has allowed and will allow a lot of money to pass through my hands as long as I don’t let it all stick to my fingers”. I believe my professional success will continue as long as I use it to help others as well. Nice of you to try to use a quote to lump us all in together, though. I would NEVER accuse all liberals of wanting to be lazy and leach off of successful people.

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Doggona….

I love that JKG quote, I use it regularly…..it’s powerful.

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Mrs. Godzille, I have no doubt that were you in the position of any of these CEOs getting very high salaries, the corporate earnings would plummet far more than the salary of said CEO. On the other hand, I’m sure any idiot could replace you in your job without affecting the company’s bottom line at all.

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MorningStar

July 22nd, 2009
9:04 am

The “fix” duing the Reagan administrtaion made that impossible. It’s my guess that only about 25% of beneficiaries really need it. The rest goes to the middle class and wealthy. My question is why? At some point benefits have to be taxed at a 100% rate. It allowed us to retire early, but if we had worked on to 65 we would have been better off financially without it.

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“although, that does lead one to wonder, what would the GOP do without their favorite “solution” (tax cuts!)”

Or the Democrats “chicken in every pot” vote getting giveaways?

It cuts both ways. But we are in agreement on a flat tax rate.

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So, it’s all about wealth envy this morning huh?

“Many people must be ruled to thrive. In their selfishness and greed, they see free people as their oppressors. They wish to have a leader who will cut the taller plants so the sun will reach them. They think no plant should be allowed to grow taller than the shortest, and in that way give light to all. They would rather be provided a guiding light, regardless of the fuel, than light a candle themselves.”

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“Option One”: Just as a correction, the “market” does not “judge of each person’s contribution to the common good”. It -is- an accurate judge of each person’s value as measured by someone else’s willingness to pay and it -does- reward each person appropriately. To your post, over the timespan measured, it would seem that in a growing competitive global marketplace (which was the case from 2002-2007), the value of creators and leaders was greater than that of clerks, cashiers, and assemblers.

“Option Two”: If earning power is focusing more directly to areas of specific skill and / or leadership qualities, then those enjoying the benefits are simply those who made good decisions concerning what skills to develop and where to direct them. On the obverse, the reality is that in a global market those with “commodity” skills (i.e. they do something that many others do or could do with minimal training) are simply not as valuable as the available pool of workers has expanded. It is probably not so much that the value of leaders has increased as it is the reality that the value of followers (of which there is a ever-growing global pool) has decreased.

“Option Three”: If those outside of the creators / leaders group take issue that this group places greater value on their own skills and talents, then they are free to step out, increase / change their skillset, and move to the more marketable sector. Better yet, they can quit providing commodity skills to someone else’s organization, start their own, and hire others from whom they will collect a portion of what they produce. However, so long as they wish to follow the least resistance path of “get a good job – work your 40 hours – collect your paycheck – spend weekends at the lake / at the game”, then they should not complain that their efforts will simply earn them a living while they are building wealth for others who chose a different path.

Net-Net: We all have choices to make and they have consequences. If one is unwilling to make the hard choices and put forth the effort to see them to fruition, then the ultimate blame for the consequences that follow goes to them.

-SD

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I must agree with Pat.

If one is doing their job and being HONEST with THEMSELVES about it, which most these days are incapable, then good things will come. Most of these whiners, crybabys think they are entitled to something for nothing.

Years ago I was corresponding with an individual that stated they were the best CSR in the State of GA and were insulted that the local cable company only wanted to pay them $17K annually. Further this person stated they should be getting paid $50K annually. Unfortunately this is type mindset is very common these days.

Most of the persons who complain about such…these so-called “underpaid” dont deserve what they currently earn.

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“So, it’s all about wealth envy this morning huh?”

Actually, it isn’t…but I can see how it could be interpreted that way. What’s it’s about is embodied in the book so many people love to quote: “For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.”

But there are still too many (as you can see if you read above) who are wedded to the “I got mine” alternative philosophy.

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Blue

July 22nd, 2009
9:04 am

That’s because in order to reduce your tax rate Bush agreed to cut taxes on the rest of us as well and too many got dropped off of the tax rolls. We have got to get them back on and raise taxes back to where they were when Clinton left office. I assume that 40% number includes state and local taxes? The EIC needs to be suspended or eliminated as well.

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70K a year is not enough to pull a lever all day!

everyone unionize!

fight the power

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The top 10% of earners pay over 50% of the federal tax burden.

Some people apparently have a hard time grasping that. They seem to be hung up on the notion that these people must be paying too much in taxes while they should be thinking about how much of a nation’s wealth is going to such a small number of people in order for them to be paying that much of the taxes given that the average tax rate for this group of persons is so low. They do not pay 40 percent in fed taxes or 30 percent or 20 percent. And, of course they earned every penny of it.

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Ben says to me:

“”Mrs. Godzille, I have no doubt that were you in the position of any of these CEOs getting very high salaries, the corporate earnings would plummet far more than the salary of said CEO. On the other hand, I’m sure any idiot could replace you in your job without affecting the company’s bottom line at all”"

Well, Ben! What a delightful human being you are! You add so much to the discussion! I bet you are just the life of the party everywhere you go!

Pfui.

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I am ok with the SS ceiling. For one thing, I figure someone in that program making that much money can afford to fund their own retirement. Two, I do not expect to share in someone else’s wealth. Three, I figured out 30 years ago that SS would likely be broke by the time I retire. I will be surprised if I was wrong about that.

On the other hand, the lower middle class, those of us paying into the system are not funding it enough to pay for the many people receiving SS. Hence, my calculation that the SS fund will run out.

Regarding an early comment about “a living wage”, that is a matter of perception. Personally, I do not consider that minimum wage should be adequate compensation to support a family of four. A living wage ought to be enough to support one person in a small apartment with no car. If that person wants more available cash, they can share a living space, get another job, etc. The job is worth what it is worth, not what I would like to earn.

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Per Whiner:

“You too can overcome the “unfairness” of it all, graduate from high school, study hard in college, build a profitable business plan, work the hours necessary to make it happen.”

And 20 years from now, after all the present kids have done this, we can have a work force of 100 million CEOs & CFOs all making in excess of $30 million a year.

Is this a great country or what?

Actually Whiner, that statement is the same “pie in the sky” Liberalism that has been ruining this country for the past 75 years. Fact: some are born with a lot of intelligence & focus, some are not. That is how the real world works.

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“Thats correct…I got mine via hardwork, arriving early/leaving late, going the extra mile which is something the liberals want to penalize”

Well, if you profess to be a Christian…there’s always the advice that Jesus gave to the rich young man.

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You are correct. The bums and miscreants of this world receive my portion of wealth that is redistributed.

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I guess everything that Swami dave said points to the reason Nardelli left Home Depot with a pile of cash while the company was going downhill the WHOLE time he was there.

You get paid for your hard work and the time you put in and the choices you make? Pleasssssssse.

Yeah, Swami, keep offering up that kool-aid.

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Under Eisenhower, every dollar a man made over $400,000 was taxed 92 cents. Now Eisenhower, of course, was a known Socialist.

I don’t want us to go back to that high of taxes, however, the graduated system graduates out too early. A person making $40,000,000 should be in a different tax bracket than one making $400,000 for example.

As far as Social Security goes, they should creat a gap. Tax the first $100,000 at 7%. Then leave the next $150,000 un taxed. Then tax the next $100,000 at 7% again. Should be MORE than enough money to pay for the benefits for the boomers. We can adjust it further when we get past the population bubble.

Also, full retirement age will have to be adjusted again…unfortunately.

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Running a company isn’t rocket science. It’s actually most of all a BS or sales job.

Look at all those companies that lined up to hire Chainsaw Al back in the 80’s as hed successivly ran companies into the ground and walked away with a fat wad of cash.

The middle and poor classes are being sold a snow job. Wake up folks. We’re all in this boat.

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Mrs. G.,

It was Kayaker. As usual, every thing is due to the poor people who are just too damn lazy to work.

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Turd,

Really? Name one.

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Blue is totally lying to him/herself: The top 10% of earners pay over 50% of the federal tax burden.

If you make that kind of jack and you are paying taxes you are an idiot. People pay a lot of money to those who can figure out how to reduce one’s tax bill to zero.

The wealthy and corporations have systems and teams of accountants in the wings to determine how to avoid taxes.

Go sell that stupid somewhere else.

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Hey Shawny (9:03)

Remember when we used to have those threads about the President ignoring Congress, not following the rule of law, Imperial Presidency, making its own rules, etc? Man oh man, I miss those topics. They’re over, now. It’s no longer happening. But that’s what happens when a new administration from another party takes power and completely reverses the practices of its predecessor.

Getalife 9:04

LOL! But isn’t that the definition of an ideologue? Holding fast to a system of beliefs regardless of circumstances or new facts?

For the record…. 9:04

I was going to posit a few ideas of how life circumstances just might not be entirely due to personal choice, then I got to the ‘hang with their homeys’ phrase and realized it’d likely be a wasted effort.

Blue 9:04

Your first sentence (the top 50% of income earners already pay 97% of the federal income burden (check out the IRS site for that). The top 10% of earners pay over 50% of the federal tax burden.):

I specified I was speaking of the total rate paid by a household, not the aggregate paid by a group. So again, does it make sense that a household making a million dollars a year (about twenty times the median household income) should have a total tax burden that’s much less as a percentage of income than a household making the average? In other words, the average household pays lots more, as a percentage, of their income in total taxes than does someone making twenty times as much?

Never said high earners don’t pay a lot – just that, as a percentage of total income, it’s many many times less than the average household pays.

[[I give about 40% of my income to taxes for you already.]] Ummm, you DO know the implications of ASSuming another’s circumstances, don’t you? 

(BTW – I have one of those ‘killer, Cadillac, gold plated” health insurance benefits. And, I’m in favor of taxing its value. ‘Course, I’m a left wing nut job. Or a right-wing, Obama-biased neocon. I forget which… maybe that health policy will get me some memory drugs… I’ll have to check…)

Brad Steel 9:08

[[Smart executives take their compensation in deferred options and thus pay only the measly 15% capital gains tax on the lion’s share of their pay.]]

Same thing is (was) true with hedge fund managers. Their yearly earnings were many, many times the earnings of those ‘evil, rich corporate CEOs’ many like to criticize – yet they don’t pay income tax on their earnings… they’re capital gains, 15 percent.

Thank Rep Charlie Rangel, head of the House Ways and Means, and the Democrats in power for perpetuating this.

Kayaker 71

I’d offer that much of California’s problems is due to the healthy pay, benefits and retirement packages earned by state and local government workers. Much more of an impact than the welfare stuff.

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Finn McCool 9:45

[[If you make that kind of jack and you are paying taxes you are an idiot. People pay a lot of money to those who can figure out how to reduce one’s tax bill to zero.]]

You mean like Kennedy and Pelosi with the family trusts or that great social justice benefactor, George Soros, with his Caribbean accounts not subject to US tax?

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Botch…thats just what the Media/CNN – MSNBC are reporting. Since has the most liberal senator Ms Maxine “beat with an ugly stick” Waters and some of the highest social program payouts I would not disagree with CNN/MSNBC.

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The rich people in this country have way too much money. I’m glad Obama’s making them pay a lot more taxes to give to other people who need money! I just got laid off again and need some cash fast—hopefully, that new tax money starts coming in fast so the unemployment benefits can keep coming for another year.

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“The rich people in this country have way too much money.” Ya…kinda like when The Hildabeast made the comment about “excess profit”. Just what is an excess profit…lol.

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Of course, no single explanation probably applies, and the real answer is a combination of the above. But we ought to talk about it as a nation, because the phenomenon is real, and the explanation we settle upon will determine what, if anything, should be done about it.

Did the article accidentally get chopped right there? It sure seems like a proposal to solve this perceived problem should have followed that.

It seems to me like that’s a pretty tight time frame to use in making your point and ignores the fundamental changes leading into that time period. During the dot com bubble there were huge numbers of people with relatively small skill levels making big money. The bursting of that bubble gets the most blame for those jobs going away but the reality is that they were a self destructive set of jobs. If your skill set didn’t cover a very broad range then you helped develop the very technology that put you out of or severely devalued your job.

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Jeff it was a moron who said “rich subsidize the poor in any society worth living in” and it’s a lie. Look at Russia…get the picture?

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Barry picked the Surgeon General on one issue.
Michelle, the Fugly to Barry ” any female you choose for another post better be more FUGLY than me!”

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Well you know what they say, jay. As California goes so goes the nation.

Democrats Solution: Flat Tax?

Close the loopholes and let’s get this done already!

Class warfare only serves political interests, not the peoples’.

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I’m a little surprised I’ve yet seen from one of our “fiscally conservative” faithful that popular but mindless canard, “Corporations don’t pay taxes, they just pass them along.”

Thee has been a corporate crime wave in this country for thirty years or more. Ronnie, Willy and King George merely invigorated it.

And until last September, nobody really cared.

They’re caring now…

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Rebecca, you must realize that SOX rules don’t keep any smart accounting team from finagling the books while still following the “rules”. The corporate problem is the race to meet short term goals while ingoring long term health.

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AmVet

Follow-up from last evening: today’s headline “Why a sudden shift in earned income to the already well-paid?”: seems that succinctly states what I was driving at with further subsidies and tax benefits (child care and the rest) proposed by Sen Boxer for military members. I mean, I’ve questioned subsidizing health insurance for families making $70-90k a year… doesn’t seem consistent to make an exception just because of one’s chosen profession.

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josef, josef, josef, where you been? Haven’t you been following all the Administration’s proposals? $250,000 is the new middle class!

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Everybody say it with me… F R E E M A R K E T

You get what you are worth. If you don’t get what you are worth, go to work somewhere else that will pay you what you are worth. If you still don’t get what you are worth, maybe you overvalue your worth.

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I think selfishness starts from the bottom up. The “unwed mother” was selfish enough to engage in unprotected sex (live for the moment) and a fatherless child is the result.

The bum is willing to steal from others because of his/her laziness to do anything other than that. From that pespective, I guess Galbraith is correct.

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How about the REALLY FAIR TAX. Everybody gets the standard deduction. After that, all income is taxed at the same rate. Wages earn should not be taxed more than other forms of income such as gains on stock options, etc

Or is that too simple and FAIR?

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Paul, we’ll just have to fundamentally differ on what GIs should get. For the sacrifices they and their families make, I will NEVER buy into this idea that civilian compensation is in any way comparable as a barometer.

I guess I’m just a pro-veteran, pro-active duty service member socialist…

Off to pay for more corporate welfare and the dual quagmires…

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Complete nonsense, whats worse is Jay knows it (or should) This wouldn’t be a problem if social security remained as intended to aid one after retirement, understand for that benefit, or more properly reimbursement, what you recieve is based on what you put in. The biggest reason their is a problem is because it is used largely as a welfare program. Talk about unfair, there are many “poor families who receive far more than they ever contributed, I guarantee 99% of people above the 106 line will not collect what they put in

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nosef jix—a cautionary tale on the subject of tribal inbreeding.

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“Interesting also how you blame this all on the mother”

Not interesting…TYPICAL

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Kamchak–well, I guess I finally do have to concede that point here!

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@@,

Going to Oakland to see a doctor:

“Oakland Voters Pass Landmark Marijuana Tax”.

Just smokin.

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Be it resolved that the Alaska State Legislature hereby claims sovereignty for the state under the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States over all powers not otherwise enumerated and granted to the federal government by the Constitution of the United States.

Be it further resolved that this resolution serves as Notice and Demand to the federal government to cease and desist, effective immediately, mandates that are beyond the scope of these constitutionally delegated powers.-Sarah Palin, Governor of Alaska/ Patriot

bwa

Stand down, Obozo!

Or else!

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josef

Just sayin.’

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Sarah is seceding?

Hilarious, it’s the new bither.

Speaking of birthers:

“Liz Cheney Defends Obama “Birthers,” Carville Stunned”.

I guess she is running for office.

Pandering to the whack job base.

Politics is fun.

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Dave R.

July 22nd, 2009
10:17 am

But when they’re getting too much compensation, there isn’t enough for the underlings and they end up “investing” in Ponzi schemes and off-shore tax havens to the detriment of society. Like I said, the stockholders need to get more involved. How many don’t even return their proxy statements?

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hahahahaha … an “Or else!” threat from St. Sarah of the Tundra??? oooooo … scary.

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Some of my proxy statements make for a fine fanny-wiping material.

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Jeff, u are correct sir! But what system came before this? Socialism! See our future there after Barry destroys our once great country!

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Dan

July 22nd, 2009
10:24 am

You must have missed my earlier posting:

Supplemental Security Income (SSI) is a Federal income supplement program funded by general tax revenues (not Social Security taxes):

It is designed to help aged, blind, and disabled people, who have little or no income; and

It provides cash to meet basic needs for food, clothing, and shelter.

http://www.ssa.gov/ssi/

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Pretty simple. The top executives move this country forward, and if the government authorizes legalized theft from those who are most productive, then they will simply change the mix of wages and capital gains to best suit their own tax situation. Overly taxing the rich guy becasue he has money has never worked before and it won’t work now.

I am building a business and am not even considering hiring any US workers at all. They will all be overseas contractors. Why would I subject myself to an 8% payroll tax and an ever-increasing health care burden? Or unions and too-high wages, for less work done in return? This administration is making my decision very easy to offshore everything.

The national sales tax is a far better method of fairly distributing the nation’s tax burden.

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Jay, tell us, what is your ^ figure salary? Do you really think you deserve it?
I mean heck, all you do is write a bunch of BS.

FAIRTAX.ORG

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Soothsayer

July 22nd, 2009
10:29 am

Well put. Our piece of the pie is getting smaller, with the complicity of Congress and several administrations. Fortunately we can afford to cut back a little and still live comfortably. Education is even more important. Living abroad for a few years might become a necessity for the more ambitious among us.

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Trust me

July 22nd, 2009
10:35 am

Our taxes aren’t too high. They’re irresponsibly low.

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Gwinecian –

“Thank you, I’ll be here all week.”

(applause)

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Living abroad for a few years might become a necessity for the more ambitious among us.

May I recommend the army, Gelding? Plenty of overseas living, and you can be all you can be.

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Sister Sarah, Didn’t she kill a bar when she was only three? Queen of the wild frontier, that she is….

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“But it isn’t fair. Just simple.”

and for the simpleminded

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USinUK

July 22nd, 2009
10:57 am

And they’re extorting us on oil just like OPEC.

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First of all, there is no Social Security trust fund. It’s just money the government owes itself. The SSA is just part of government. You can’t spend and save the same dollar.

If you have a problem with how much an executive gets paid, take it up with the Board of Directors, who are elected by the shareholders. If you are aren’t a shareholder, it’s none of your business. If you are and don’t agree with the BOD, sell your shares.

If it is a private company, it is none of your business.

Stop whining about people who are more successful than you are.

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CArnivore wrote: Overly taxing the rich guy becasue he has money has never worked before and it won’t work now.

Carnivore, do you have any idea what the tax on the wealthy was before Reagan came into office? It was over 70%! He dropped it down to 27%!

Reagan promptly cut income taxes on the very rich from 70% down to 27%. Corporate tax rates were also cut so severely that they went from representing over 33% of total federal tax receipts in 1951 to less than 9% in 1983 (they’re still in that neighborhood, the lowest in the industrialized world).

The result was devastating. Our government was suddenly so badly awash in red ink that Reagan doubled the tax paid only by people earning less than $40,000/year (FICA), and then began borrowing from the huge surplus this new tax was accumulating in the Social Security Trust Fund. Even with that, Reagan had to borrow more money in his 8 years than the sum total of all presidents from George Washington to Jimmy Carter combined.

http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_6522.cfm

Obama just wants to get the rate back to the 35% rate it was under Clinton.

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Jay, I assume my banishment has ended.

First, let me express my dismay for the circumstances that led to my time in exile. After I threw a verbal bouquet to one of the more beautiful minds and source of moral clarity on the blog, I was, for no reason, mocked by one of the blog’s outspoken liberal denizen. The liberal, brimming with hate and filled with disgust at the very thought of two conservative minds wrapped in mutual admiration, then threatened to “splutter” if the recipient of my verbal bouquet responded to me. Thus jibed in such an inappropriate and unprovoked manner, I responded to my provoker with a single line concept. For me, the liberal mind is best described by the old country song lyric, “You have got to stand for something or you’ll fall for anything.” So my response, falling in line with the fact that liberals will swallow, “hook, line, & sinker”, any sob story or piece of dogma from their leaders, “I thought you people all swallowed.” Thus, after an unprovoked attack, I was banished for so innocuous a comment.

That said, I have come to the conclusion that this blog is neither intended to be a marketplace in which the best ideas will prevail or a forum in which insight, experience, knowledge, and expertise have higher value than naked liberal dogma. While the examples are innumerable, below are a few that clearly identify the blog’s preference for fiction over fact.

The blog and its readers, when considering the economy, have reacted more favorably to the naked dogma from the Huffington Post and Daily Koos than the real world experiences and expertise of an active c-level executive.

The blog and its readers, when considering homo marriage, have reacted more favorably to the naked dogma and talking points of the “I’m here and I’m queer” perverts than very Word of the Lord G-d and those who follow him.

The blog and its readers, when considering accountability and activities of diverse groups of people, have reacted more favorably to the naked dogma and talking points from Jerine Garafalo than the practical experience of one who has a very long track record of productive relationships with actual coloured, actual homos, and actual jews.

The blog and its readers, when considering accountability and activities of real people such as Ralph Reed, have reacted more favorably to the naked dogma and stale old stories from the liberal media than the personal experience of one who has worked, hunted, dined, chased, prayed, and, yes, looked intio the very soul of Ralp and found him to be an honourable, Christian man.

And the examples go on and on, but I’ll stop here.

As a result, I have reached the conclusion that my contributions to a blog where old-wives-tales out way fact, where desired outcomes replace recognition of reality, and any yaboo who can type, no matter status and past achievement, can out yell men of uncommon distinction, knowledge, and expertise.

With that said, Ol’ Wyld Byll is going to head softly into that good night as I will no longer post on this blog so you won’t have Wyld Byll Hyltnyr to kick around anymore.

Best wishes to my conservative travelers in arms, Palin/Jindahl in 2012 will nake it all right. Dear@@, the email address is wyldbyllhyltnyr@gmail.com if you want to get in touch.

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Finny –

“Obama just wants to get the rate back to the 35% rate it was under Clinton.”

noooo … not the clinton years! you know, when unemployment was declining steadily and wealth was rising

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y’know, our RW actually posted some intelligent, if rather insular, criticism of Jay’s case, and laid out his own thesis for income disparities, @ 9.52.

Sigh.

I knew as soon as I saw the words “Social Security” in Jay’s original that we’d have about two dozen posts about “is a Ponzi Scheme / is NOT!”, four dozen about “you lazy LIBRAZL just don’t want to work! / “do SO!”, and the rest about Battlestar Gallacaca, or suchlike.

RW, there’ve been some interesting studies done about how the income groups have done over the decades; I have done some poking around (here’s one such article, analyzing a deeper study, just for grins) and if you are still here you might want to consider the case being made there.

If not, well, I guess I’ll just enjoy the usual food fightin’.

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Wyld Byll Hyltnyr

July 22nd, 2009
11:10 am

If you haven’t left yet, surely you can admit that you were vulgar at times. Bestwishes.

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Doggone –

So, if you’re a poor family with 2 kids to feed and you spend $100 on groceries, you’re going to spend a greater %%% of your income in taxes than a rich single person who also spends the same $100 on groceries.

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Wyld Byll,

Did you say something?

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So, if you’re a poor family with 2 kids to feed and you spend $100 on groceries, you’re going to spend a greater %%% of your income in taxes than a rich single person who also spends the same $100 on groceries.

Is there a problem with that? Are you suggesting someone else should buy the groceries for them?

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I wonder what Wild Byll’s new name will be.

Hey DB! Paul nor I haven’t mentioned Battlestar Galactice ONCE today! Or food. (I think.)

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Doggone/GA

July 22nd, 2009
11:18 am

It is a consumption tax.

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“It is a consumption tax”

close enough…but if there’s NO OTHER taxes, then everyone has more money to spend, and thus there is greater consumption. Or savings, should that be your choice.

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Off topic:

Bosch—-The Blues beat Seattle over the weekend and their old boss last night. Futbol’s been berry, berry good to me!

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Gale (and Doggone)

“Is there a problem with that? Are you suggesting someone else should buy the groceries for them?”

not saying that someone else should buy their groceries for them, just making the point that the “fair” tax is a regressive tax that hits the poor harder.

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Whiner,

“OR ELSE?”

I used to laugh at your absurd posts. Now I just think you are brain damaged. I hope the Fed cuts off any and all aid to that state. Then Texas and GA next. Time to call their bluff.

“One Republican senator says if the party can stop Obama on health care, it will break him”

Yeah, Obama laughed at that idiot during a news conference.

Blaming Obama for GM’s woes? I thought the union caused them?

Wow, can’t you wingnuts keep your BS straight?

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People making less than $40,000 per year.

That my friends, is the intial shift of wealth to the upper class from the middle class. That is legal theft.

That is why the middle class can now only barely make ends meet. My parents were better off than I am and I make twice what my dad made at my age.

Stop drinking the kool-aid, folks. You are being snow-jobbed. If you don’t believe me, can’t you believe Warren Buffett?

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but if there’s NO OTHER taxes

Yeah, that’s gonna happen.

We get into this silly bit of fairy-land talk every so often–people who are convinced that a consumption tax would cure our economic ills make a wonderful case sometimes, but they’ve never answered a simple questino I’ll pose to you: If this was such an open-and-shut brilliant way to finance a nation’s revenue needs, why hasn’t some pissant little outfit on another continent tried it, if only for a decade or so?

Big-picture, with federal taxes, I see it this way. You either accept that the duly elected government will use the tax code to effect changes in behavior, and work with your representatives to try to get the best deal for your own economic group that you can muster, or you go mad. More or less.

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…….Your stereotypical Welfare Queen doesn’t exist anymore.

The incredible ignorance of that statement defines the left at their very worst.

What planet do you live on?

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That’s right JF. The CEO’s and upper level management never tighten their belts.

They believe their decline in bonus (due to the fact that no one has money to buy the plastic thingy they’re selling) is enough of a sacrifice.

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po’ Folk should get free food, and medycal covorege, specially fer da chidlens, as we need mo demoncratic votorz.

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Mr. Byll,

“OH Nooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!”

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I’m certainly no expert on the Fair Tax, but my understanding is that you get rebates on the taxes you pay the lower your income. It is not a straight consumption tax with a fixed percentage. I think we should have a consumption tax that has 10 or 12 rates based on the type of good or service being purchased. Food would fall under a category that has a zero or very small percentage. The theory is that lower income people spend a greater percentage on necessities which are taxed at lower rates. No filing, no withholding. You are taxed when it is spent, but you have a lot more to spend.

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Joey

July 22nd, 2009
11:26 am

Good grief!

You’re delusional.

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“I’ll pose to you: If this was such an open-and-shut brilliant way to finance a nation’s revenue needs, why hasn’t some pissant little outfit on another continent tried it, if only for a decade or so?”

And what we have NOW is “an open-and-shut brilliant way to finance a nation’s revenue needs”?

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“Just the name strikes fear into the hearts of Progressives and Liberals”

I’ll try to remember to be scared, once I stop laughing.

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Forgive me if this is repeated.

Kamchak,

Cool. Are you going to the game tonight? I read where they expect 50,000! Cool beans!

BudWiser,

I live on Earth, most of the time, and sorry to say that you sir, are just plain wrong.

mm,

Anybody who knows anything about social welfare programs know that the stereotypical Welfare Queen does not exist. BudWiser and his kind like to make assumptions based on their social dysfunctions and knowledge based on anything that exists outside their own front yard.

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Paul,

Thanks!

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I Report You Whine

July 22nd, 2009
11:35 am

Certainly not from Alaskans.

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“if this were ever to pass it would not resemble the tax that they have carefully memorized ”

No kidding! It would give a whole new focus to the definition of a camel: a horse designed by a committee

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whiner –

“where do you think the federal government gets that “aid” money in the first place?”

what part of “net RECIPIENT of federal money” do you not understand … ???

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Bosch

Yep I’m going tonight. This will be my first visit to the Dome.

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Finn McCool

July 22nd, 2009
11:27 am

You might want to look at your expenses. I guarantee you your parents didn’t have the “necessities” that you do.

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I make out quite well so this isn’t about jealousy or handouts.

This is about being able to call a spade a spade. And some folks just don’t want to face the music.

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Jay wont be happy till all are earrning as meager a salary as he! Me, I strive to better myself daily monetarily & spiritualy. I hear & read the term GREED used when descibing overachievers by some on the left. I also hear & read the term LAZY when describing underachievers by some on the right. Both terms are accurate for some but not the majority for either. Laws on the books seem to favor/encourage success, and I agree. But as we all know the Government also seems content on encouraging and in some cases paying for laziness,that I do not agree with. I teach my kids that to achieve success you must strive for it,not settle for the status quo. And don’t expect anything from anyone other than yourself.

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I gotta respond to the comment by the Whiner at 8:12 who operates under the fantasy that all wealthy people earned their positions through hard work, when the reality is that many, if not most, achieved their super wealth primarily as a result of being heir to the well-connected while others get there for qualities having nothing to do with hard work (e.g. studies show that tall people over 6′2″ are more likely to promoted than others).

For those super rich who actually achieved their wealth through employer compensation, the processes of hiring and promotions are thoroughly subjective, and it’s ludicrous to suggest that a person always gets to a certain position because he or she (usually he) necessarily worked harder or deserved it more than many others who are frequently equally or more. As proof, all we have to do is look at all the upper level management teams who have taken over healthy companies and run them into the ground while gobbling up millions of stockholder dollars for themselves.

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Speaking of Jesus……….do any believe that the rich can get into heaven? Jesus said that a camel would walk through the eye of a needle first before that happened……..if so, what should be done about Gov. Sanford? What about Ensign? If their sins are forgiven (because they publicly repented); are they still barred from heaven? Hmmmmmmmmm……..

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Bosch –

“Don’t take it so serious. Vampire Bill is retarded, but the rest of the show is funny”

gah – Bill was the only one last night that I actually liked … well, him and the grandmother (I busted out laughing when she asked Sukie to ask him if he was in the Civil War and would come speak to her group of Daughters of the Illustrious Fallen)

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USinUK 11:53 Bosch 11:54

[[if I may … Bosch and I would like to recommend you add a little Being Human into your routine of Battlestar Gallactica and food …]]

So let it be written, so let it be done.

Battlestar Galactica food Being Human Battlestar Galactica food Being Human Battlestar Galactica food Being Human Battlestar Galactica food Being Human Battlestar Galactica food Being Human Battlestar Galactica food Being Human Battlestar Galactica food Being Human Battlestar Galactica food Being Human Battlestar Galactica food Being Human .

and I’m with you on vampires (Twilight kind) and cyborgs (altho I prefer Cylons of the Six variety) but I gotta draw the line on donuts.

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As for Americans, is it a good deal to exchange your job for lower prices at Wal-Mart?

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CYLONS … that’s it … I don’t watch the current version of Battlestar Galactica, so I was trolling through my memory …

no donuts??? sometimes, you got the kinda hurt that only the vision of HDN can fix …

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USinUK,

You didn’t like Lafayette? Just wait until you meet Vampire Erik (as all the women swoon). And the Vampire Pam (she’s my favorite).

When he does go speak to grandma’s group – it’s kind of touching. Sniff. Sniff.

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Paul,

“I don’t watch the current version of Battlestar Galactica”

I stopped breathing for a moment.

Debbie,

Soooo……what’s your take on Vampire Eric (as all the women swoon)?

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Soothsayer

July 22nd, 2009
12:07 pm

Without going ot the link, Hell No!

I’ll read it now.

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USinUK 12:08

Yeah, sometimes I do succumb. Buttermilk cake. Plain. Great for coffee dunking.

Bosch 12:11

Yeah, and time did stand still, everything froze, but the awareness, it was so clear, so detailed, just like Bella described it.

We’ll just have to be patient and understanding with USinUK. When she’s ready for the greater light and understanding, she’ll know.

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USinUK,

“and, of course, the best thing about a book … you never have to hear a southern accent as thoroughly butchered”

So true.

You know – that usually bugs me to the point to where I won’t watch if that’s going on, but it just makes me laugh in this show because to me the show is so funny.

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Chris, I’m 5′9 and have been steadily promoted my adult life. Not saying you are incorrect,but I would like to see stats that promote what you state.

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I’m still waiting for my answer, all you mmorons out there.

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upstairs, guys …

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whiner –

“I must ask, where do you think the federal government gets that “aid” money in the first place?”

man, you really do have reading difficulties … AK is a net RECIPIENT of federal money … since you evidently don’t understand that, they RECEIVE more money than they CONTRIBUTE to the system …

so, g’head. secede. that’ll show us.

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The best health care and budget deficit reform is to stop the continuing generational government dependent numbers, e.g., single parents with 4-6 children, each generally by a different father — perhaps we can fund a sterilization type program???

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Does anybody on this page work ??

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“Does anybody on this page work ??”

On this page – yes, can’t speak for all the other pages though.

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Mrs. G @ 12.48, kindly cease and desist this vile character assassination

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Quit being third rate…..then no problem!

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pat

I beg to differ.

I am not sad or pathetic.

And when my hand is out, it’s because I am offering it in friendship or aid.

WHatever made you so bitter?

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China had been propping up the dollar so that US consumers could continue buying cheap Chinese crap, primarily via WalMart and other monstrous legacies of Globalization. At the time, US debt was some $8.162 trillion dollars and has only gotten bigger. US credit abroad is strained to breaking or broke. The US credit crisis trickles down to bond markets world wide. No country is too small to remain unaffected. Investors in New Zealand, for example, have this month complained that their interest payments have been suspended, the result of fall-out from the US credit crisis. It would appear that there is no where to run, no where to hide.

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those in the managerial and executive class control the compensation process and have tilted it in their own favor, skewing it to reward themselves and their peers at the expense of others

Well, yeah they’ll do that unless somebody regulates them. No system can be self-regulating if humans are involved.

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“Why not sports stars and so-called “entertainment” stars? Why not the hollywood actors who command $20M for a movie ”

Because they are self proclaimed democrats.

Ever wonder why there is such a thing as a “rich” democrat if they believe the party dogma? Shouldn’t they be able to share their wealth and live off maybe 1-2 million?
Does Opra or Warren really need several BILLION dollars for herself/himself?

Pure hypocrisy.

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Now, for the first time in modern U.S. history, there are no new economic engines at all. The last real engine was the internet which has now reached maturity with marginal players being weeded out.

Today the rank-and-file of our population must increasingly turn to borrowing in order to survive. Only the banks and the credit card companies are the beneficiaries. The total societal debt for individuals, businesses, and government is over $45 trillion and climbing. This is happening even while the real value of wages and salaries is decreasing.

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There is no payroll tax cap on Medicare. So the high-income earners pay a disproportionate amount of that. Not that it helps since Medicare is way past broke. Anyway, Jay, keep stoking the fires of Class Envy. It’s a good distraction from the one-termer who is currently tied-up insuring he’ll be the one-termer.

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Byll:

I can’t believe you let jay run you off so easily.

If you check in, my curiosity demands that I ask what is your profession or, if you’re retired…was your profession? I keep thinking we’ve crossed paths years ago at Luckovich’s.

About our contact? I’ll first have to google sexual slang for “IN TOUCH”…

you talkin’ MINISTRIES?

I’ll see you on the flip-side William.

(IW&SH)

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No cap. The more you make, the more you keep. Simple. Don’t like paying more, make less. Its volentary, no income – no deduction. No penalty.

Some folks have never been broke (truly hungary broke) so they can’t relate. Some think they got where they are with no help from anyone, I doubt it. Some people like cupcakes, I care less for them.

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“Some folks have never been broke”

And some folks have been broke more times than they would like to count but refused to live off others. Those folks also did whatever was necessary to get back up. All they want now is for others in the same position to do what they need to do to get ahead, even with assistance.

Its one thing to be truly poor and sit on ones butt and feel sorry for oneself, and another to be truly poor, doing without, attending community assistance programs, improving ones educational position, etc.

Yet, the ones choosing the first option are the ones complaining the loudest. The others are too busy getting ahead in life.

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Wells, I guess my curiosity will never be satisfied. DANG!

I hate it when that happens.

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Of our thre enormous social programs, Medicaid is in the worst financial shape, Medicare next, and SS, despite the 4 year revision in going bust, is in the best shape. the real question is why, in the face of three inadequately funded current programs, does Obama want to provide a fourth, health insurance for all, that will cost trillions?

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It’s Bush’s fault

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Change…HAHAHAHAHA!!!!

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[...] Posted by KevK Really, if you work for a living, you should read this: Why a sudden shift in earned income to the already well-paid? | Jay Bookman This is why the cap on income that pays the Social Security tax and Medicare tax should be [...]

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nowhereman

July 22nd, 2009
2:07 pm

SS and Medicare “trust funds”:

A SUMMARY OF THE 2009 ANNUAL REPORTS

Social Security and Medicare Boards of Trustees

http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/TRSUM/index.html

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If you are poor or middle class, then 100% of your wages as subject to the FICA tax. If you are wealthy, your wages over $108,000 are protected from that tax.
This is a simple concept that anyone can understand, and it appears to be unfair. Some are taxed on every dime, and others are not. All this talk about the system going broke, combined with the elimination of most corporate pension plans, and the certainty of old age poverty for millions, creates a strong desire to protect the SS system, and even enhance it, by raising the salary cap to $250,000 or maybe just go all the way for everyone. Everybody wins, since the wealthy would retire in a world of sightly less desperation and misery, and the rest of us would be slightly less desperate and miserable. My 65 year old friend clears $500/month in SS “benefits”. Can you imagine trying to live on that?

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http://www.facebook.com/ext/share.php?sid=103801648203&h=fIh6g&u=7tST3&ref=nf

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[...] One-third of all pay, the percentage of total wages and salaries, is paid to top executives, reports the Wall Street Journal. [...]

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