Democrats’ ‘tribal loyalty’ to be tested on health care
Democrats as a rule aren’t very good at the political loyalty thing, certainly not as good as the Republicans are.
Often that’s a good thing. The refusal of George Bush to rein in the excesses of the Republican-controlled Congress, and the refusal of the Republican Congress to do the same with Bush, in the end did long-term damage to both the country and the party.
On the other hand, party discipline does help a lot when you’re trying to get things done. If the Republicans had 60 votes in the Senate and a healthy margin in the House, as the Democrats now do, you can bet they’d be pushing through their preferred programs with a lot more dispatch and efficiency than Barack Obama, Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi have managed so far.
For that reason, Republicans have been pretty foolish to talk openly of their desire to halt health-care reform as a way to “break” the Obama presidency and make it his Waterloo, as Sen. Jim Demint said the other day. GOP Chairman Michael Steele and Newt Gingrich have chimed in too, with Gingrich suggesting that health care reform “could be the bill that drags his whole presidency down and they look back on it and suddenly the whole thing is unraveled.”
That’s just the kind of talk that could rally Democrats to Obama’s side. Preserving Obama’s image of strength was clearly part of the party leadership’s calculation in drumming up votes in support of the his veto threat on the F-22, and that same dynamic will play out on health care as well. Even Democrats who have concerns about Obama’s approach — whether those concerns are heart-felt or more political in nature — have a lot invested in the president’s success. If he’s crippled this early in his term, congressional Democrats become crippled as well, and the Republicans have kindly reminded them of that reality.
That’s one reason I think that in the end, we’ll see a major reform bill passed.
Oft
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391 comments Add your comment
Paul
July 22nd, 2009
6:25 pm
Bosch 6:12
Did I ever tell you about that passage I once read in a novel? Couple guys in a bar having a drink, guy next to them insults the guy (and by inference, his mother). Guy finishes his drink, other guy hurls another insult. Guy looks at his friend and says ‘let’s go.’ Friend says “after what he called you? You’re just gonna leave?” Guy says “why not? I’ve no idea who he is. Why should I value his opinion? If I reacted, I’d just be granting him power over me.”
DoggoneGA
July 22nd, 2009
6:25 pm
“I believe the women compromises her rights when she opens her legs. That is when she has made a choice to “share” her rights (not including forced pregnancies).”
So…I get it, and I’m not surprised. It’s all the woman’s fault. Ever heard of things like failure of birth control.? Or a woman’s health and life being compromised by her developing foetus? And, like it or not, it’s HER body and it’s under HER control.
You are left with only 2 choices: FORCE her to carry her foetus to term or do a FORCED pre-mature delivery.
Halibut Maoir
July 22nd, 2009
6:26 pm
If our Health Care is in such dire straits,please anyone from the left,why the hurry to ram a bill thats gong to cost taxpayers trillion’s of dollars down our throats without allowing time to fully read and understand it? Whatever happened to the transperancy that was promised? And why the August deadline? Or did I just answer my own question? Whats in this bill that Oboohoo does’nt want the American public to see? If I was a Democratic elected official I would be worried about fallout.
josef nix
July 22nd, 2009
6:28 pm
Bosch–here’s hoping things go well for you tomorrow. Thanks to you, spent the afternoon back to the future–Babylon 5 arrived…
md
July 22nd, 2009
6:29 pm
“Why the hurry! Is that some sort of sick joke.”
You must be the town drama queen. As of today, there is not one soul in this country that does not get care if its needed. That is currently illegal. So no, something doesn’t have to be done yesterday. Something needs to be done, but it also needs to be done RIGHT. Put in a hasty program for the sake of change, and what are the unintended consequences down the road and how many will that affect? We don’t know, but lets all run around like chickens with our heads cut of fand make a decision, any decision, doesn’t matter, just make a decision. Yea, thats a good idea. You’ll get far in life with that approach.
TnGelding
July 22nd, 2009
6:29 pm
Pelosi bluffing?
Jul 22, 3:33 PM (ET)
By DAVID ESPO
WASHINGTON (AP) – Speaker Nancy Pelosi says Democrats have the votes to pass health care legislation in the House, even though negotiations are under way to make changes in the bill to satisfy some of its critics.
The House’s top Democrat declined to say when she will call for the vote on President Barack Obama’s top domestic priority. She says she wants to see what the Senate’s plans are.
The California Democrat made her comments at a news conference Wednesday. She spoke as conservatives and the White House seek changes to impose greater cost controls on health care. Other members of the rank and file seek additional changes.
Trust me
July 22nd, 2009
6:31 pm
I believe the women compromises her rights when she opens her legs. That is when she has made a choice to “share” her rights (not including forced pregnancies). Just because an individual made a poor choice does not diminish the rights of the other being in the equation. Every choice we make has a resulting consequence. Thats life, and its not always fair
So, what does the male do all the while. After all, it still takes a combination of a sperm and an egg in a successful union for anything at all to develop. For starters, I think that if the male wants the child but the female does not, then the male should be impregnated — transfer the fertilized egg to the other owner of said pregnancy. After all, she only spread her legs, his third leg rose to the challenge. We do have the technology to let the male carry that fertilized egg. Quit dumping it all on the female.
Paul
July 22nd, 2009
6:32 pm
Bosch
Your last post – guess I’ll get personal and tell you what’s shaped my current outlook. I’ve a great health insurance policy, one I wouldn’t object to having taxed. In the last few years my wife had kidney cancer. Treatment at MD Anderson. Five percent survival rate, she’s in that five percent. I’ve a son who lost his entire large intestine to ulcerative colitis. He had a son, many weeks premature (and some here wonder why I had such disdain for that doc in Kansas – not that he was murdered, just for him a a person – who did late term abortions for flimsy reasons) who went right into neonatal intensive care.
And I wondered – what if it’d been my other son who had a lousy health insurance policy? What if I’d been one of the guys who’d lost his job and benefits and COBRA had run out? It was only by good fortune things worked out the way they didn’t. And they could have gone the other way, very easily.
So yeah, I think our system needs reform. And I’m really, really ticked at how the House Dems and the Administration have squandered a once-in-years opportunity through their lack of leadership and sellout to special interests.
md
July 22nd, 2009
6:32 pm
“If we (the majority) wanted more of the same, we could have voted for it.”
You shouldn’t assume that because people voted for Barry, that all of them wanted all of his programs. That would be unwise, as many voted based only on the economy, and many were independents and already have buyers remorse.
Trust me
July 22nd, 2009
6:32 pm
You must be the town drama queen. As of today, there is not one soul in this country that does not get care if its needed. That is currently illegal. So no, something doesn’t have to be done yesterday. Something needs to be done, but it also needs to be done RIGHT. Put in a hasty program for the sake of change, and what are the unintended consequences down the road and how many will that affect? We don’t know, but lets all run around like chickens with our heads cut of fand make a decision, any decision, doesn’t matter, just make a decision. Yea, thats a good idea. You’ll get far in life with that approach.
Got anything other than your word for any of that, drama queen.
Paul
July 22nd, 2009
6:34 pm
Bosch
Oh, and vodka qualifies!
TnGelding
After the torture fiasco and “we’ll have enough savings by getting rid of waste to pay for the health care bill” this Speaker still has credibility?!!?
Trust me
July 22nd, 2009
6:36 pm
You shouldn’t assume that because people voted for Barry, that all of them wanted all of his programs. That would be unwise, as many voted based only on the economy, and many were independents and already have buyers remorse.
You should not make so many assumptions yourself. If we wanted more of the GOP policy, we would have voted for more of the same and that includes the failed economic policies of the Republican party.
TnGelding
July 22nd, 2009
6:37 pm
The more things change:
“White House declines to disclose visits by health industry executives
Citing an argument used by the Bush administration, the Secret Service rejects a request from a watchdog group to list those who have visited the White House to discuss the healthcare overhaul.”
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-healthcare-talks22-2009jul22,0,7434392.story?track=rss
Chris Salzmann
July 22nd, 2009
6:37 pm
Here are some of the lies being thrown out there for the uninformed public:
MYTH: EVERYONE will be forced to go on government health care.
REALITY: Everyone who is on an employer program or is happy with their current program will stay there. This program is aimed at those who cannot get health care insurance because of cost (unemployed, self-employed, none-insured, etc) or eligibility (pre-existing conditions, etc). Bottom line is that its OPTIONAL if you already have insurance.
MYTH: Congress has exempted itself from this plan.
REALITY: Since this is a choice based plan, no one is forced into it unless they need it. i.e, I’m happy with my employer based plan, why should I switch? Same choice confronting congress. Again, its OPTIONAL for those who already have insurance.
MYTH: The government plan will suck.
REALITY: It may, truthfully we don’t know that yet. Bottom line is that we need to bring in those 50 million Americans who have no insurance and those additional millions of Americans who have insurance but who have chronic or pre-existing conditions exempted under their current health care insurance plans.
So what about OPTIONAL do some people not understand. I hope Obama clears this up.
md
July 22nd, 2009
6:37 pm
“So…I get it, and I’m not surprised. It’s all the woman’s fault. Ever heard of things like failure of birth control.? Or a woman’s health and life being compromised by her developing foetus? And, like it or not, it’s HER body and it’s under HER control.”
Yea, I’ve heard of them all. And there are always exceptions. But generally speaking, one should be held accountable for their actions, and all actions have consequences.
Punishing an innocent for anothers action just isn’t right.
Halibut Maoir
July 22nd, 2009
6:40 pm
A more open White House-Bull!!! Only thing more open is taxpayers wallets. Please don’t look in mine-empty.
DoggoneGA
July 22nd, 2009
6:42 pm
“Whats in this bill ”
What does the public EVER see of ANY bill, before it’s voted on?
md
July 22nd, 2009
6:42 pm
“Got anything other than your word for any of that, drama queen.”
Since it is illegal, why wouldn’t it be the case. Maybe you need to produce evidence and have some folks locked up if you believe otherwise.
Scooter
July 22nd, 2009
6:42 pm
I had a brain storm.(Ya’ll take cover)- Sinse no one wants to pay for me to have health ins. why don’t we use the aid we send to other countries for our own people?
Bud Wiser
July 22nd, 2009
6:43 pm
I sense a real unspoken problem with the title on this thread, “Democrats ‘tribal loyalty…’, this being the party of the 94%ers and all.
It smacks of the typical racism of the left that they laugh off and then smugly try to pawn off on everyone but themselves. What tribe are we referring to here anyway; Watusi, Arapaho, Australian Aborigines, just WHAT???
Had I or another conservative made reference to Democrats as ‘tribes’, or ‘tribal’, the machete of the censor would have hacked it off at the knees. And that is in fact the truest statement made on this blog today by anyone.
The left’s double standards make rational Americans sick to their stomachs. Your main problem is that it is the elephant in your room that you cannot even see. And deny. And accuse everyone else of being…
Bosch
July 22nd, 2009
6:43 pm
Joseph nix,
Thanks! And if I’m meaner than usual tomorrow, I’m either drunk on vodka/rum or po’ed cause I’m starving. An afternoon of Babylon 5 sounds great! I feel that I’m gonna have some afternoons in my near future where I’m laid up needing good TV.
Paul,
Yeap! I’m glad your wife and your son are doing well. I’m facing something similar to your son, at least I hope – funny how you pray you just need surgery – yeah, like “Sweet! I just have to have surgery! Yippeeeee!!!!!” Honestly, I’ll just be happy when I can eat something and not double over in pain. That’s why I got such a kick out of the kid at the doctor’s office yesterday.
DoggoneGA
July 22nd, 2009
6:45 pm
“Punishing an innocent for anothers action just isn’t right”
Well, if you’re religious you better take it up with whatever God you believe in, then…because the most egregious “abortionist” of them all is God.
josef nix
July 22nd, 2009
6:46 pm
I heard or read somewhere just a day or so ago that 60% of the bankruptcies in the country are the result of not being able to meet medical costs. Does anyone know if that stat is correct?
Bud Wiser
July 22nd, 2009
6:46 pm
Salzmann, have you read the ‘plan’?
Check page 114 in the published bill for the exemption for Congress and/or elected officials.
Then crawl on your knees like your master and beg forgiveness.
md
July 22nd, 2009
6:46 pm
“You should not make so many assumptions yourself. If we wanted more of the GOP policy,”
We – you got a mouse in your pocket?
My “assumptions” are based on actual conversations with other independants that actuall voted for Barry, and many of them are not pleased with the performance so far. I would think the latest polling numbers would back that up.
And if your “we” refers to other democrats, you do realize that independants put Barry in the WH, not democrats. Independants vote in our presidents, not either party.
Chris Salzmann
July 22nd, 2009
6:47 pm
DoggoneGA July 22nd, 2009 6:45 pm SAID: “Punishing an innocent for anothers action just isn’t right”
Well, if you’re religious you better take it up with whatever God you believe in, then…because the most egregious “abortionist” of them all is God.
CHRIS SAYS: ROFLMAO! I gotta use that next time! Very good point!
Raider
July 22nd, 2009
6:49 pm
People, I just caught 2 liberal posters in lies today, Jack smith and Mrs Godzilla. The World Health Organzations Rankings are FAKE! On the PDF file(page 6) it says, Source Unknown. If you can not cite the source, then its FAKE! Liberals always lie! They do not have facts, they do not have sources, they only have lies. And that liberal President tonight will be spewing more lies about Obamacare – Government controlled Health Care. Don’t kid yourself, that is excatly what it will be. Yes sir, catching lying liberals is what I do here. Because I’m only looking out for you and America. I stand for Truth, Justice and the American way!
Raider do you have anything to say to the press
“Putting liberals/socialists in their place, nothing but a bunch of liars!”
Chris Salzmann
July 22nd, 2009
6:51 pm
Bud Wiser July 22nd, 2009 6:46 pm SAID: Salzmann, have you read the ‘plan’?
Check page 114 in the published bill for the exemption for Congress and/or elected officials.
Then crawl on your knees like your master and beg forgiveness.
CHRIS SAYS:Put up the link to the Plan you’re looking at.
TnGelding
July 22nd, 2009
6:52 pm
Scooter
July 22nd, 2009
6:42 pm
Good sentiment, but…
Myth: The United States spends way too much on foreign aid.
Realty: The United States spends only a minuscule amount on foreign aid.
http://truthmonk.wordpress.com/2008/04/21/does-the-united-states-spend-too-much-on-foreign-aid/
Paul
July 22nd, 2009
6:52 pm
Bosch
You’ll be in our thoughts and prayers.
I’ll even have a drink for ya’ tonight!
DoggoneGA
July 22nd, 2009
6:53 pm
“CHRIS SAYS: ROFLMAO! I gotta use that next time! Very good point!”
Thanks! Of course, I’ve used it before and did once get a reply that there was no such thing as a “spontaneous abortion”…how could you even BEGIN to have a discussion with someone who is that ignorant?
md
July 22nd, 2009
6:53 pm
“Well, if you’re religious you better take it up with whatever God you believe in, then…because the most egregious “abortionist” of them all is God.”
Sounds like another excuse to justify ones actions. So be it.
I choose to stand behind the innocent vs against them.
TnGelding
July 22nd, 2009
6:55 pm
josef nix
July 22nd, 2009
6:46 pm
It’s in that range, at least 50%.
josef nix
July 22nd, 2009
6:58 pm
TnGelding–thanks.
DoggoneGA
July 22nd, 2009
7:00 pm
“Sounds like another excuse to justify ones actions. So be it.
I choose to stand behind the innocent vs against them”
Well, since you have not denied being religious…since God allows spontaneous abortions to happen, how do you KNOW that induced abortions are not just another way that God allows pregnancies to end?
Yes, it might just be that it’s “another excuse to justify ones actions”…that’s what comes with being allowed by God to be able to make independent decisions. Sometimes they aren’t the right ones. And sometimes they might be the right ones, but that’s not apparent to anyone outside the decision making process.
Greg Mendel
July 22nd, 2009
7:01 pm
Halibut (6:26 PM):
We will pay 2 to 3 trillion dollars (estimates vary) for Bush’s invasion of Iraq, for which we have gained nothing and lost plenty. As I recall, we couldn’t postpone the invasion another minute. If we can afford a war against an imaginary problem, we can pony up some bucks to offer affordable health coverage to our own people. (I won’t even mention who was president when the economy melted.)
Obama has put forward facts, figures and details. You can Google them anytime. (Or you can tune into his presser at 8:00 PM tonight — if you really want to know the answer to your question.) Projections are always “iffy,” no matter who is doing the projecting. Most Americans didn’t bat an eye when Bush said “Just trust me” as reassurance for invading Iraq. We didn’t know WE had to pay for it!
Our health care system IS in dire straits, and the straits become more dire every year. Americans who are still employed and do have insurance are paying far more and getting less. If you have good insurance (only in America do people qualify their insurance as “good”) and are healthy, there’s no problem. If you have kids, they are unlikely to have insurance around age 22 unless you can keep them on your policy, which isn’t easy. If you lose your job, you’re likely to lose your health care.
Obama has a plan, but he’s asking for a bill. It may not conform to his plan, and he’s said so. But he knows that the longer we wait, the chances of reform diminish drastically.
I’m not particularly “left,” btw. I’m much closer to Eisenhower than Pelosi.
josef nix
July 22nd, 2009
7:04 pm
Doggone;
“What does the public EVER see of ANY bill, before it’s voted on?”
Bud Wiser:
“Check page 114 in the published bill for the exemption for Congress and/or elected officials.”
DebbieDoRight
July 22nd, 2009
7:06 pm
md: Im a registered independant, but do you really want to talk about rights considering the rights (or lack of) for the unborn.
When did fetuses get rights? And if they can have rights, why can’t aliens? What about little green men, what about THEIR rights?
md
July 22nd, 2009
7:09 pm
Deb,
You have some reading to do, been there done that already.
DoggoneGA
July 22nd, 2009
7:10 pm
““Check page 114 in the published bill for the exemption for Congress and/or elected officials.””
But that is not necessarily the bill that will be voted on. What is published is not the BILL, it is only the proposed bill. It can change with any number of additions and deletions before it actually comes up for a final vote. At best, what is published only shows the direction of the bill at the moment it is published. It might have little to nothing to do with the final version that comes up for a final vote.
Scooter
July 22nd, 2009
7:10 pm
TnG, Thanks for the link. I thought we spent way more than that. OK, I guess my idea wasn’t so good. I’ll think of something though!
josef nix
July 22nd, 2009
7:11 pm
DDD:
When did fetuses get rights?
Not trying to “take sides” here, but my question has been why, in the case of the murder of a pregnant woman, is the perpetrator chaged with double “homicide?”
Bosch
July 22nd, 2009
7:16 pm
Paul,
Just make sure it’s vodka or rum – I don’t want to have to blame you if my test is screwed up on Friday morning. Don’t make me go there.
josef nix
July 22nd, 2009
7:20 pm
Doggone–
“At best, what is published only shows the direction of the bill at the moment it is published. It might have little to nothing to do with the final version that comes up for a final vote.”
When is the final version published in relation to the final vote?
josef nix
July 22nd, 2009
7:21 pm
Bosch–was going to have a drink for you, too, but best not since mine is red wine!
Raider
July 22nd, 2009
7:23 pm
Greg, you are such a liar. You said “Obama has put forward facts, figures and details”, is that why the other day while talking on the phone to a blogger he couldn’t answer what was on page 16 of this health care bill. Obama doesn’t even know what is in this bill you idiot! We are not fooled by your liberal stance. Do you know why he doesn’t have facts figures and details, because he hasn’t read the damn thing. Greg have you always been a liberal lying loser?
DoggoneGA
July 22nd, 2009
7:27 pm
“Not trying to “take sides” here, but my question has been why, in the case of the murder of a pregnant woman, is the perpetrator chaged with double “homicide?””
Because you have to take into account the woman’s, and her family’s, emotional attachment to the foetus as their forthcoming child. Plus, it’s another way to increase the potential punishment should the defendent be found guilty. Not to be too facetious, but it’s kind of like those states that have laws against driving barefoot. No one is going to stop you and check to see if you are wearing shoes, but IF you get stopped for something else and you are barefoot…it’s another charge to add to the “sheet”
md
July 22nd, 2009
7:28 pm
” but my question has been why, in the case of the murder of a pregnant woman, is the perpetrator chaged with double “homicide?””
Careful Jo, they already side against the innocent, now you will have them advocating for sentence reduction of murderers.
DoggoneGA
July 22nd, 2009
7:29 pm
“When is the final version published in relation to the final vote?”
After it’s voted on…in the Congressional Record. There’s just no way to publish the final version beforehand, because it might be amended and changed right up to the moment before the final vote.
RW-(the original)
July 22nd, 2009
7:29 pm
josef nix,
You might want to look at a little more perspective on the medical cost/bankruptcy debate. It’s not as cut and dries as the “50%” crowd would have you believe.
RW-(the original)
July 22nd, 2009
7:31 pm
Raider,
I linked a story on page 2 of this topic that deals with the WHO ranking. It says the US is number 1 in providing care but rank us 37 because we aren’t socialist enough for them.
Raider
July 22nd, 2009
7:35 pm
RW, those rankings are fake – read my earlier posts
DoggoneGA
July 22nd, 2009
7:37 pm
“now you will have them advocating for sentence reduction of murderers.”
Spoke too soon.
Trust me
July 22nd, 2009
7:38 pm
Since it is illegal, why wouldn’t it be the case. Maybe you need to produce evidence and have some folks locked up if you believe otherwise.
What specifically is the “it” that is “illegal” that you refer to and I will try to properly respond. Further, what evidence would you like me to produce and why do some folks need to be locked up because of some beliefs. Please clarify.
RW-(the original)
July 22nd, 2009
7:39 pm
Raider,
I read your earlier posts and I’m trying to help you out here.
@@
July 22nd, 2009
7:41 pm
TnG:
There’s fraud in every government program, but who is that a reflection on?
Have you ever googled medicare fraud? It runs the gamut — from government workers within the system, to doctors, to street hustlers…even your neighbor, John Q. Public.
It’s government’s incompetence that allows it to run amok. What’s it to them? To the government it’s free money…yours and mine. When it runs out they can always confiscate more.
Trust me
July 22nd, 2009
7:41 pm
We – you got a mouse in your pocket?
Do you? And, what does that have to do with this subject.
My “assumptions” are based on actual conversations with other independants that actuall voted for Barry, and many of them are not pleased with the performance so far. I would think the latest polling numbers would back that up.
Assumptions are still assumptions regardless of who dreams them up. You got any facts to deal with instead of your friend’s assumptions.
And if your “we” refers to other democrats, you do realize that independants put Barry in the WH, not democrats. Independants vote in our presidents, not either party.
Got proof.
Raider
July 22nd, 2009
7:44 pm
RW, then I say thank you brother.
josef nix
July 22nd, 2009
7:46 pm
Thanks for the responses to my questions. Both are those I’m still trying to formulate my own opinions on and I appreciate the input. Seriously!
Trust me
July 22nd, 2009
7:47 pm
“Well, if you’re religious you better take it up with whatever God you believe in, then…because the most egregious “abortionist” of them all is God.”
Sounds like another excuse to justify ones actions. So be it.
I choose to stand behind the innocent vs against them.
Excuse to justify what action. The action of a monthly cleansing. They (women) came equipped with that feature in case you have not noticed. And, why not stand beside all the innocent people instead of behind some words.
md
July 22nd, 2009
7:48 pm
“Do you? And, what does that have to do with this subject.”
Your the one posting as “we”.
“Assumptions are still assumptions regardless of who dreams them up. You got any facts to deal with instead of your friend’s assumptions.”
Are you really that slow? Actual converstions with individuals that voted for Barry are hardly “assumptions. What are you finding so difficult to understand.
“Got proof.”
Google is your friend. Look it up.
Trust me
July 22nd, 2009
7:50 pm
Not trying to “take sides” here, but my question has been why, in the case of the murder of a pregnant woman, is the perpetrator chaged with double “homicide?”
Is that true in all cases in all states. What about Illinois and the woman was found to have just tested positive the same day using a Wal-Mart test kit.
DoggoneGA
July 22nd, 2009
7:51 pm
“And, why not stand beside all the innocent people instead of behind some words”
Because abortion foes NEVER want to come right out and say, plainly, that they WOULD force a woman to carry a pregnancy to term…regardless of the outcome to HER. Because if you ever allow ANY exceptions, then you are FOR abortions.
md
July 22nd, 2009
7:52 pm
“Excuse to justify what action.”
You really are having a hard time with comprhension. Read all the posts and follow the bouncing ball.
The action of taking the life of an innocent.
Trust me
July 22nd, 2009
7:55 pm
“Do you? And, what does that have to do with this subject.”
Your the one posting as “we”.
I clarified my use of the word “we” as being the majority, the ones that voted for a change.
“Assumptions are still assumptions regardless of who dreams them up. You got any facts to deal with instead of your friend’s assumptions.”
Are you really that slow? Actual converstions with individuals that voted for Barry are hardly “assumptions. What are you finding so difficult to understand.
Are you that slow? You are the one that stated that you got assumptions from conversations from your friends. What are you finding so difficult to understand about your words.
“Got proof.”
Google is your friend. Look it up.
Got proof. Give me the google results to back up your own claims. Don’t ask me to prove your claims for you.
Trust me
July 22nd, 2009
8:02 pm
“Excuse to justify what action.”
You really are having a hard time with comprhension. Read all the posts and follow the bouncing ball.
The action of taking the life of an innocent.
Follow your own bouncing ball. If you want to present something, then do it and back it up with verifiable facts. That is assuming you want to be taken seriously. I’ve read all the posts and you make no sense. You just keep throwing up childish remarks. So, elaborate on this latest statement of yours, “The action of taking the life of an innocent”. You might try using that as a basis for a complete thought to start with. Try explaining some of the basics such as the “who”, “what”, “when”, “where”, “why”, “how”. For example, What action taken by whom in the taking of what life that was an innocent life, how, when, where and why.
md
July 22nd, 2009
8:03 pm
“Got proof. Give me the google results to back up your own claims. Don’t ask me to prove your claims for you.”
I’m not the one disputing my claims, and I have already looked it up. Give it a try – educate yourself.
“Are you that slow? You are the one that stated that you got assumptions from conversations from your friends. What are you finding so difficult to understand about your words”
My words from 6:30 – That would be unwise, as many voted based only on the economy, and many were independents and already have buyers remorse.
“Assumptions” was introduced by you in relation to my words, not the other way around. I assumed nothing in relaying my actual conversations. Geeeez.
md
July 22nd, 2009
8:07 pm
“I’ve read all the posts and you make no sense.”
Funny how I’ve had a running debate with several posters on here that seem to have no problem understanding the conversation, yet you get lost. Sounds like a personal problem.
DoggoneGA
July 22nd, 2009
8:13 pm
“Follow your own bouncing ball.”
Trust Me…I think you need to back off a bit. md and I have been having a conversation about abortions. If you’ve been following the “ball” you should KNOW THAT and you should KNOW what is meant by the taking of an innocent life. I’m not having ANY trouble following the thoughts expressed, why are you…IF you really ARE paying attention?
yeah right
July 22nd, 2009
8:18 pm
Your liberal bias is showing, meshugga.
Pogo
July 22nd, 2009
8:18 pm
Liberals/Progressives want action. They don’t care if it is right or wrong. They just want something to happen. It is the “idea” of change and action that matters. It is this rush to action, which is so dear to their progressive hearts that makes them politically self destructive. When the people learn the social costs of their experiments, they are turned out in droves at the polling places. It is about to happen again.
DoggoneGA
July 22nd, 2009
8:22 pm
“Liberals/Progressives want action”
Yep. Just like “we” wanted ACTION in Iraq…sound familiar? Those responsible didn’t care if it was right or wrong either, they just wanted something to happen.
Bosch
July 22nd, 2009
8:23 pm
Well hell – after hearing Obama now, i don’t care if he’s Kenyan!
DebbieDoRight
July 22nd, 2009
8:27 pm
josef: When did fetuses get rights? Not trying to “take sides” here, but my question has been why, in the case of the murder of a pregnant woman, is the perpetrator chaged with double “homicide?”
That’s only a recent phenomenon and it’s a back door way of abolishing Pro Choice. Traditionally, an offender could NOT be charged with homicide of a fetus; however recent events, Laci Peterson, one of the more recent cases; have shifted towards this trend. However, in these cases, the ladies are usually near term, (ready to deliver), and if the child had had the opportunity to be born, they had a 98% chance of living outside of the womb.
md: Hey, sorry!! I had to take some time off the board to go kiss my husband and make him feel special!! You know how guys are……they need lots of attention!!
Paul
July 22nd, 2009
8:33 pm
Bosch 8:23
Or one of them foreigners out of that Pacific Hawaii place, either!
DebbieDoRight
July 22nd, 2009
8:35 pm
Bosch Well hell – after hearing Obama now, i don’t care if he’s Kenyan!
Too funny!!
jt
July 22nd, 2009
8:35 pm
I heard all I could stomach of President Obama.
Do bad he is the leader of such an evil entity. He is very charismatic.
Regardless, he keeps harping on 200 BILLION dollars worth of fraud, waste, and abuse in our current system. He should fix that first before dumping more money into it.
Also, he is spewing the tired old anecdotes about people loosing their houses and stuff because of catastrophic illness. How is this costing me, the tax payer, money?
More goverment is NEVER the answer. Make insurance 100% tax deductable for individuals or shut up about it.
jt
July 22nd, 2009
8:40 pm
And all you whiners with pre-existing conditions that “claim” you are denied insurance, band together and lobby congress for relief.
Why should I have to pay for your puny arses?
DoggoneGA
July 22nd, 2009
8:45 pm
“Why should I have to pay for your puny arses?”
Translation: I got mine, screw yours
RW-(the original)
July 22nd, 2009
8:46 pm
after hearing Obama now, i don’t care if he’s Kenyan!
Hopefully that’s because you’ve now figured out he’s a clueless buffoon, but somehow I doubt it.
jt
July 22nd, 2009
8:53 pm
Translation: I got mine, screw yours.
I wouldn’t screw yours. Conversely, I wish them the best, but my children and my parents are my responsibilty. Not yours or the goverment. I would not steal YOUR money to help my family.
getalife
July 22nd, 2009
8:54 pm
He is doing well in the press conference.
“Saad Bin Laden, Osama’s Son, Killed By American Missile in Pakistan: US Officials”.
Too bad daddy was not there.
Trust me
July 22nd, 2009
8:54 pm
Funny how I’ve had a running debate with several posters on here that seem to have no problem understanding the conversation, yet you get lost. Sounds like a personal problem.
No so-called personal problem on my part. I chimed in when I saw this statement from md:
I’m a registered independant, but do you really want to talk about rights considering the rights (or lack of) for the unborn.
My response to this from md was this:
Just what rights does a non-existent non-person get under the constitution or even in the Bible. What are these mythical rights. Spell ‘em out and then tell us all why they deserve them along with some basis to support your claims. People have rights. Living, breathing, viable people.
md replied with this:
Other than a definition, explain why a premature child born early and is now outside the womb has a different set of rights than the same age child inside the womb.
A seed will remain a seed until fertilized, at which point it becomes a life form with living cells. You and those like you can come up with all the definitions you want to justify your position, but the life form will never be a seed again.
To which I responded with:
One topic at a time, why not! The post that I referenced did not contain any of this. It talked about the ‘unborn’. Is that a new horror flick. That’s hardly the same topic as one about a living, breathing person. Further, a seed is a seed. It may or may not sprout into a living breathing person and hence have the rights that are bestowed upon living, breathing persons. Now surely, people like you can quit proclaiming to know the positions of people like me. Then again, you would not be “people like you” any longer, would you.
After all that, my original inquiry regarding the statement about the rights or lack of rights for the unborn, from md’s post, still remained unanswered. The topics just kept changing and the childish remarks kept on coming. All I was asking for was an answer to the original inquiry. Instead, md replied with this:
“Why not talk about the cost and quality of care offered by our current ‘plan’ and compare that to options.”
And there in lies the problem, for as it stands now there is only an option without the “s”. Why the hurry and where are the other options? We can come up with hundreds on this board given the chance, yet congress has one and it has to be done now. No it doesn’t.
which was a reply to a post on a different train of thought from the original. In fact, it was a reply to this post of mine at 5:45:
Some folks keep talking about the costs of other plans as though there is some ‘absolute’ going on here. Why not talk about the cost and quality of care offered by our current ‘plan’ and compare that to options. You know, so people can make decisions based on something other than feelings and conjecture and just flat out lies.
From there, the exchange continued on the line of thought that I started until I switched back to one of md’s new wild comments with my post at 6:31:
“I believe the women compromises her rights when she opens her legs. That is when she has made a choice to “share” her rights (not including forced pregnancies). Just because an individual made a poor choice does not diminish the rights of the other being in the equation. Every choice we make has a resulting consequence. Thats life, and its not always fair.”
So, what does the male do all the while. After all, it still takes a combination of a sperm and an egg in a successful union for anything at all to develop. For starters, I think that if the male wants the child but the female does not, then the male should be impregnated — transfer the fertilized egg to the other owner of said pregnancy. After all, she only spread her legs, his third leg rose to the challenge. We do have the technology to let the male carry that fertilized egg. Quit dumping it all on the female.
I don’t recall seeing a reply from md on that one. Further md never addressed my original inquiry.
Let’s see, did I miss anything relevant.
I Report :-) You Whine :-(
July 22nd, 2009
8:55 pm
So what did Obozo’s TelePrompter lie about?
DoggoneGA
July 22nd, 2009
8:55 pm
“I would not steal YOUR money to help my family.”
If you have, and use, any form of insurance…yes, you would and have.
Paul
July 22nd, 2009
8:57 pm
Uh-oh. He just answered the Prof Gates/Harvard arrest as if all the facts were in. Prof Gates said he showed the cop his ID, cop said he refused and became belligerent. Pres Obama answered as if the Gates story was the only version.
That’ll get some play….
Paul
July 22nd, 2009
8:58 pm
getalife 8:54
Well, we can always hope
Like Son, Like Father!
Brittancus
July 22nd, 2009
9:01 pm
It tends to make a lot of good people despondent and at the least susceptible, when they read, watch and listen to the maverick storm of media ads, thumping down President Obama’s health care initiative? Much of the rambling artifacts are the Simon and Lois ads of the Clinton administration, heavily armed against any revisions in this issue that wealthy insurance companies and subsidiaries won’t tolerate.
They insulted the senior citizens with their propaganda and bald faced lies about the European government run health care system. Being originally an Englishman myself, I guarantee in the 1960’s, we had a unique form of medical services, inclusive of eye and teeth. Even government run medical care in Australia was exceptional. It did plummet down somewhat, when business starting recruiting foreign labor from the commonwealth and Northern Europe. Many were out for a free financial ride and got it, along with their large families that British citizens have to support with their limited pounds sterling.
Just as the anti-governmental health care extremists have been pounding the airwaves, the open border, globalist is now subjecting the American people to a torrent of inflaming immigration polls. But like all polls they can be intentional manipulated, in exactly how the questions are worded? Sure they can keep their co-pays, deductibles and pre-existing small-print clauses, squeezing every penny from a hurting economy, but tell the–BLOODY TRUTH!
It’s a sad fact that you cannot trust the Liberal slant regarding this searing problem, although not all Liberals are favorable to another AMNESTY? The Democratic leadership, hiding liberal views behind closed drapes tried to annihilate any good, workable illegal immigration enforcement laws. In an earlier session of the Senate an error was made with E-Verify, so it’s was fortunate to survive Sen. Reid and Pelosi’s notion? Anything that has an impact on removing illegal immigrants is intercepted by business oriented free traders.
GOOGLE—illegal immigration–to find out their sinister intention, to just throw open the gates, ports and airline entrances to cheap labor, that also become the downfall of the European Union. the polling I have seen has been calculatedly –ENGINEERED–to get results, that they can brandish around, declaring the majority of Americans believe in a path to citizenship and open borders? Already the Democrats are ready to flag the Save Act, 287(g) local police enforcement to weaken these laws.
Currently both issues have heavy fallout, and you the voter should let your Senator or Representative know your opinion on either matter at 202-224-3121—BEFORE IT’S TOO LATE. Both have massive consequences in costs and quality of life in your future and generations to come.WE MUST SAY NO AMNESTY! SEAL OUR BORDERS AND NO MORE FREEBIES TO ILLEGAL ALIENS. THEY ARE THE CRIMINALS, NOT AMERICANS WHO SACRIFICE TAXES? GOOGLE–NUMBERSUSA for details our government and the media have a nefarious talent, for keeping facts under wraps?
Raider
July 22nd, 2009
9:08 pm
What in the hell was that tonight! Did anybody understand what the hell he said! I almost fell asleep 10 minutes into it. Damn he is almost as boring as Al Gore.
electrician
July 22nd, 2009
9:11 pm
If someone wanted to build a house,and took their life savings and bought all the materials needed to build that house,down to the last nail,and had them transported to the construction site,and someone came in the night and took ALL of said materials. would the thief be denying that person of their home ,or just materials to build that home.this is abortion,the destruction of what could be.abortion is legal and probably always will be,but call it what it is…its killing.
TGT
July 22nd, 2009
9:11 pm
You’ve got to love Coulter. A sampling of her latest:
“The reason seeing a doctor is already more like going to the DMV, and less like going to the Apple “Genius Bar,” is that the government decided health care was too important to be left to the free market…As a result, it’s easier to get your computer fixed than your health. Thanks, government!
“We already have near-universal health coverage in the form of Medicare, Medicaid, veterans’ hospitals, emergency rooms and tax-deductible employer-provided health care — all government creations.
“So now, everyone expects doctors to be free. People who pay $200 for a haircut are indignant if it costs more than a $20 co-pay to see a doctor.
“The government also “helped” us by mandating that insurance companies cover all sorts of medical services, both ordinary — which you ought to pay for yourself — and exotic, such as shrinks, in vitro fertilization and child-development assessments — which no normal person would voluntarily pay to insure against…
“Insurance plans that force everyone in the plan to pay for everyone else’s Viagra and anti-anxiety pills are already completely unfair to people who rarely go to the doctor. It’s like being forced to share gas bills with a long-haul trucker or a restaurant bill with Michael Moore.”
getalife
July 22nd, 2009
9:13 pm
Paul,
They said he was not targeted but at the wrong place at the wrong time.
He was under house arrest in Iran but went to Pakistan hopefully to be with dad.
I think we might get him if he is in Pakistan.
jt
July 22nd, 2009
9:15 pm
Raider-you asked.
What in the hell was that tonight?
That was a waterloo moment.
Thank God.
DoggoneGA
July 22nd, 2009
9:17 pm
“but call it what it is…its killing”
And anyone who would deny that is delusional…so what’s your point?
I Report :-) You Whine :-(
July 22nd, 2009
9:22 pm
What in the hell was that tonight! Did anybody understand what the hell he said! I almost fell asleep 10 minutes into it. Damn he is almost as boring as Al Gore.
He didn’t say anything. I didn’t even watch the monstrosity and I know for a fact that all he did was read from a script, provided to him by the same socialist policy wonks that fed al-Gore his BS.
If you’ve seen one little marxist, you’ve seen them all.
ew
Raider
July 22nd, 2009
9:23 pm
Jt, I stand corrected , Thank you, now we all know. You are 100% right! W-A-T-E-R-L-O-O!
TnGelding
July 22nd, 2009
9:25 pm
Why does Obama think the “middle class” (I would prefer middle income) is struggling financially? I would think the ones that are working are doing quite well in this era of low taxes and low prices.
The mandate on business to provide health insurance is a non starter with me. We need to get that cost off of its back.
TnGelding
July 22nd, 2009
9:27 pm
I Report
You Whine 
July 22nd, 2009
9:22 pm
Yes, policy is boring, especially for those with a short attention span and misconceptions.
Raider
July 22nd, 2009
9:29 pm
And if he thinks he is going to pay for this with millionaires money by taxing them, he is wrong. I know a couple and their money is in loopholes and overseas, and they hardly pay for taxes as it is. – I wish I was one of them.
Paul
July 22nd, 2009
9:30 pm
getalife
I sure hope so. Some Predator pilot in California’s never going to have to buy a drink at the club again!
Pleasant evening, all -