Democrats’ ‘tribal loyalty’ to be tested on health care

Democrats as a rule aren’t very good at the political loyalty thing, certainly not as good as the Republicans are.

Often that’s a good thing. The refusal of George Bush to rein in the excesses of the Republican-controlled Congress, and the refusal of the Republican Congress to do the same with Bush, in the end did long-term damage to both the country and the party.

On the other hand, party discipline does help a lot when you’re trying to get things done. If the Republicans had 60 votes in the Senate and a healthy margin in the House, as the Democrats now do, you can bet they’d be pushing through their preferred programs with a lot more dispatch and efficiency than Barack Obama, Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi have managed so far.

For that reason, Republicans have been pretty foolish to talk openly of their desire to halt health-care reform as a way to “break” the Obama presidency and make it his Waterloo, as Sen. Jim Demint said the other day. GOP Chairman Michael Steele and Newt Gingrich have chimed in too, with Gingrich suggesting that health care reform “could be the bill that drags his whole presidency down and they look back on it and suddenly the whole thing is unraveled.”

That’s just the kind of talk that could rally Democrats to Obama’s side. Preserving Obama’s image of strength was clearly part of the party leadership’s calculation in drumming up votes in support of the his veto threat on the F-22, and that same dynamic will play out on health care as well. Even Democrats who have concerns about Obama’s approach — whether those concerns are heart-felt or more political in nature — have a lot invested in the president’s success. If he’s crippled this early in his term, congressional Democrats become crippled as well, and the Republicans have kindly reminded them of that reality.

That’s one reason I think that in the end, we’ll see a major reform bill passed.

Oft

391 comments Add your comment

Truth

July 22nd, 2009
2:12 pm

The problem is that Americans dont know what is in the bill or how all of this will effect their lives and their healthcare. If it is as good as Obama says it is, then tell us exactly how this is going to be better for ME!

Hillbilly Deluxe

July 22nd, 2009
2:16 pm

Why doesn’t Congress just let us common folks be part of the health care plan they have for themselves?

Conservatism Leads to Paranoia

July 22nd, 2009
2:16 pm

Health care needs to be addressed but it needs to be done right even if it takes a year or longer.

Fortunately each year there are fewer Democrats and even fewer Republicans. Some where in between there are some thoughtful folks who want to see the country work and don’t want to see it go socialist or neo-con. Pray they succeed.

I Report :-) You Whine :-(

July 22nd, 2009
2:18 pm

The democrat party is hellbent on taking itself out of power; who’s to blame the Blue Dogs from looking out for Number One?

I Report :-) You Whine :-(

July 22nd, 2009
2:20 pm

That’s just the kind of talk that could rally Democrats to Obama’s side. Preserving Obama’s image of strength was clearly part of the party leadership’s calculation in drumming up votes in support of the his veto threat on the F-22

Yeah, don’t you wish-

Rather, it was a vote that reflected corporate contracts. The floor leaders of the faction in favor of more F-22s were Sens. Saxby Chambliss, a Republican from Georgia, where the F-22 is assembled, and Chris Dodd, a Democrat from Connecticut, where parts of the plane are built. Joining this strange couple were such erstwhile doves as Barbara Boxer and Dianne Feinstein of California, which also hosts several F-22 contractors.-Salon

It had nothing to do with Obozo, but if it makes you feel better, comrade, Seig Heil!

Yes we can!

Lord Help Us

July 22nd, 2009
2:23 pm

I am amazed at the irony that surrounds me…

Yesterday, I heard Orrin Hatch trot out the old, ‘ you can’t trust gov’t to manage healthcare…gov’t is the problem, not the solution,’ mantra.

THIS from a guy that IS the gov’t!!!! He’s been in Congress for what, about 100 years.

He is saying, in effect, I AM INCOMPETENT!!!! DON’t TRUST ME!!!

Don’t we elect people to run our gov’t? Orrin Hatch just gave us a good reason to fire his ugly butt…

Lord Help Us…

Shawny

July 22nd, 2009
2:24 pm

Hillbilly Deluxe

July 22nd, 2009
2:25 pm

Preserving Obama’s image of strength was clearly part of the party leadership’s calculation in drumming up votes in support of the his veto threat on the F-22

That was a self preservation vote if there ever was one. Those whose districts benefit from F22 contracts voted to fund it and those who had no personal stake in it didn’t. Didn’t have much to do with party either way.

Trust me

July 22nd, 2009
2:25 pm

Republicans are in the minority now because they drove this country to the brink of destruction. Democrats now have to prove that they are worthy of the throne of majority party. We’ll see. One thing is certain, it won’t be with the help of many, if any, Republicans. That’s OK by me. They really don’t even deserve a voice any more.

Paul

July 22nd, 2009
2:26 pm

What’s that old saying about I can insult my sister, but if you try it, it’s war?

Reps should remember that. So far, the President, Spkr Pelosi and Sen Reid have been having lots of difficulty with Blue Dog Democrats. No Republican intervention necessary. But the likes of Steele and Gingrich just can’t resist when they see a microphone.

This shows something else. Just as the power brokers in the Republican Party shifted it waaay right, waaay past Pres Bush and moderate Republicans like Sen McCain… well, now the argument’s been made: the Power Brokers of the Democratic Party, the coastal Democrats and northeastern Democrats, are waaay in the opposite direction. Polls show increasing unease with the direction of the country (after a brief period of hope). The Congressional health care proposals illustrate this – the special interests, corporate interests and Democratic House leadership just couldn’t resist…. and, increasingly, the people are saying ‘wait a minute.’

One other thought: Pres Obama made a couple of “I’d like” statements and left the stim bill to Congress. One would have thought he would have learned. I think he had a good idea of what he wanted to do with reform of health care – but to simply make a few statements of desire and turn it over to the House leadership and the lobbyists was an abdication. Tonight, he’s playing catch-up.

And as Truth said in the first post, if he can’t explain, in less than 1,000 teleprompter pages, what this means for the average family, so they can say ‘this is what we’ll have and this is what we can do and this is what we’ll pay’… then another opportunity will have been squandered.

DebbieDoRight

July 22nd, 2009
2:27 pm

Democrats aren’t republicans, they think with their own minds.

Democrats are republicans, they want to get re-elected too.

Democrats aren’t republicans, they’ll stab you in the back for a buck.

Democrats ARe republicans, they eat their young.

Hey, politics ain’t for si$$ies!!!

Bosch

July 22nd, 2009
2:29 pm

Lord Help Us@ 2:23,

Okay, you’ve just won my post of the day award. One of the reasons I’ve never trusted the GOP much is their “smaller government” mantra, which, of course, they don’t mean. But they are a bunch of people who are basically saying, the government is incompetent, but we want to be a part of it!!!

So, what do they expect out of their job description? Sit around and do nothing in their attempts to be irrelevant? I just don’t get it.

Bosch

July 22nd, 2009
2:29 pm

Sorry Jay, but I’ve just gotta know.

So Debbie,

Vampire Eric?

Doggone/GA

July 22nd, 2009
2:30 pm

“But they are a bunch of people who are basically saying, the government is incompetent, but we want to be a part of it”

More like: “government is incompetent…elect us and we’ll prove it”

getalife

July 22nd, 2009
2:35 pm

The gop rubber stamp but dems stab their president in the back.

Yoo got punked:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/22/australian-comedy-team-pr_n_242854.html

He looks scared to death.

Kamchak

July 22nd, 2009
2:36 pm

“…if he can’t explain, in less than 1,000 teleprompter pages,…”

How many words are on a “teleprompter page”?

eagle scout

July 22nd, 2009
2:36 pm

Hillbilly Deluxe … Do you think that congress has some special health care benefit? One that is especially tailored to their needs. Actually they are covered just like any federal servant under the
Federal Employees Health Benefits Program…It is equivelant to any health benefit one would receive working for a major company.

Hillbilly Deluxe

July 22nd, 2009
2:37 pm

if he can’t explain, in less than 1,000 teleprompter pages, what this means for the average family, so they can say ‘this is what we’ll have and this is what we can do and this is what we’ll pay’…

Then it’d be buying a pig in a poke. (And I believe we need some form of health care reform as soon as possible).

Northern Songs, Ltd.

July 22nd, 2009
2:37 pm

apropo of absolutely nothing:

John: Now see what you’ve done with your filthy eastern ways?
Ahme: No, it is Clang, the high priest, who is filthy in his eastern ways.
John: How do we know you’re not just as filthy, and sent by him to nick the ring by being filthy, and you’ve lulled us with your filthy eastern ways?
Paul: What filthy ways are these?

Ah, good times.

Paul

July 22nd, 2009
2:37 pm

Lord Help Us – Bosch

Could you interpret what Sen Hatch said as “I’ve been around long enough to know what happens when committees and lobbyists and special interests get their hands on a good idea. Some of us see it, most go along, and there aren’t enough of us with the will to resist to prevail.”

Hillbilly Deluxe

July 22nd, 2009
2:39 pm

Eagle Scout

Millions of folks don’t work for major companies and receive coverage that isn’t as good, if they receive any.

Bosch

July 22nd, 2009
2:39 pm

Paul @ 2:37 –

Well, yeah, I guess so.

eagle scout

July 22nd, 2009
2:42 pm

I know that Hillbilly…

That’s why we as a country need major health care reform.

Paul

July 22nd, 2009
2:43 pm

Kamchak

Pres Obama averages, what, 13 questions and answers an hour? Only 13 in an hour? Lonnnnng answers. He likes to get philosophical. So did Pres Clinton – but he kept it confined to the West Wing bull sessions where he drove his staff nuts. When he got ready to face the public and make his case – he connected and he did it. (The 1,000 pages was reference to the length of the House proposal, the teleprompter was reference to the studied preparation).

Pres Obama has some fine oratorical skills. Seems to me, on this issue at this time, he needs to ratchet it down a few notches, get simple, and connect.

Bosch

July 22nd, 2009
2:43 pm

Eagle Scout,

And millions of folks DO work for major companies and DON’T receive coverage that isn’t as good, if they receive any.

(Sorry Hillbilly Deluxe, not pokin’ fun at ‘cha – just an observation).

Road Scholar

July 22nd, 2009
2:44 pm

TRUTH: You mean that Fox News doesn’t know what will be/ is in the Healthcare legislation ? HECK, they have been advertising death and destruction due to Socialism caused by this bill.

What is the best healthcare system presently in the US? Stumped? It’s the VA!!!!!! I guess they don’t like socialized medcine, even for our troops, esp if they are vets themselves? Do they not request or get VA healthcare? Do they not support our troops in the least due to their healthcare system?

I Report :-) You Whine :-(

July 22nd, 2009
2:45 pm

That was a self preservation vote if there ever was one. Those whose districts benefit from F22 contracts voted to fund it and those who had no personal stake in it didn’t. Didn’t have much to do with party either way.

HillBilly- bookman doesn’t have much hope nor change to sneer at us about so he twists up what little propaganda he can.

kinda sad, it is.

@@

July 22nd, 2009
2:45 pm

Gee, jay, you’re first and next to last paragraphs are contradictory.

Democrats as a rule aren’t very good at the political loyalty thing, certainly not as good as the Republicans are.

Even Democrats who have concerns about Obama’s approach — whether those concerns are heart-felt or more political in nature — have a lot invested in the president’s success.

How about standing on their oath to serve US as opposed to themselves or their party’s CHOSEN.

Kamchak

July 22nd, 2009
2:47 pm

Paul @2:37

I take it to mean committees, lobbyists and special interests convert a good idea to a bad idea, some see the change, most go along with the change, but there aren’t enough willing to resist a good idea gone bad.

Joey

July 22nd, 2009
2:47 pm

The foolish and totally dishonest statement is yours, Jay. There is no Republican wide “desire to halt healthcare in order to break the Obama Presidency”.

The desire to stop the Democrats from passing their healtcare bill(s), whichever one comes out, is about protecting the United States from a bad health care bill. A bill that probably not one person has read in its entirety. If that harms President Obama agenda so be it.

I do not doubt that there is a seperate to weaken, maybe break, the Obama Presidency, but so what. There was a desire by Democrats to break the Presidency of Bush II (Jay was very active is this one), Bush I, Reagan, etc. And a similar desire by Republicans to break Clinton and Carter. Big Deal.

Hillbilly Deluxe

July 22nd, 2009
2:48 pm

eaglescout & Bosch

Sounds like maybe we didn’t understand each other but we all agree we need to do something better than what we’re doing now. So it’s all good as the youngsters say. ;-)

I Report :-) You Whine :-(

July 22nd, 2009
2:49 pm

Let’s check and see how the democrats are coming along with their latest attempts to save America-

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1505178/video_clips_of_early_flight_attempts/

Gosh, that’s too bad.

DB, Gwinnettian

July 22nd, 2009
2:49 pm

Republicans have been pretty foolish to talk openly of their desire to halt health-care reform as a way to “break” the Obama presidency and make it his Waterloo

I’ll take “Stuff GOPers Know, but Won’t Admit to in a Million Years” for $1000, Alex.

DebbieDoRight

July 22nd, 2009
2:51 pm

Bosch I don’t like their Eric either……I don’t know, he comes off sexier and more thrilling in the books. I guess it’s sort of like Christopher Reeve’s Superman. Sure, Reeves was cute, but could you really call him a “Super” MAN?! no way!!!

Goldie

July 22nd, 2009
2:51 pm

Who was it that said that getting the Dems to agree on any legislation “is like herding cats”? The Dems certainly don’t march in lock-step like that other party does.

TnGelding

July 22nd, 2009
2:51 pm

I don’t think so, Jay. They’ve got legitimate concerns and think it could be done a better, different way. They’re trying to fix a problem that isn’t the biggets one. The uninsured get health care. Many are uninsured by choice. The overuse of the system by a relatively few patients is the real problem. That plus testing people that have never been sick a day in their lives and won’t be. Throw in our reckless lifestyles that cause preventable illnesses and you’ve got a system out of control. We’ve created a society where being sick makes you feel special and gets you extra attention, and give you something to talk about. Too many of us have become fat and lazy, even too lazy to cook for ourselves.

The plans being put forth are simply too complicated. We have a single payer plan that works moderately well, Medicare. Why not make that available to everyone and let the insurance companies fight over the needed Medigap coverage?

Before we address health care reform we need to take a serious look at our end of life expectations.

DebbieDoRight

July 22nd, 2009
2:54 pm

Debbie Says: ALL politicians should have and pay for the EXACT SAME HEALTHCARE system that we privateers have!!!

So, the next time their ailing, sick, or dying family member is in the hospital and the HMO DENIES their coverage, they’ll see EXACTLY what everyone else in American goes through.

THAT’ll teach ‘em!

I Report :-) You Whine :-(

July 22nd, 2009
2:54 pm

GOP Leader Mocks White House Claim That They ‘Rescued the Economy’

“Not only has the stimulus not worked and the economy not been rescued, the President continues to promote policies that will create more unemployment in America. The national energy tax that went through this House last month will cause millions of Americans to lose their jobs over the next 10 years, at 2.5 million per year. And we’re debating the health care plan, the government takeover of health care, which according to the Presidents own council of economic advisers model will cost five million more Americans their jobs.”

bwa

Perhaps that is what Obozo wants, no?

Turd Ferguson

July 22nd, 2009
2:55 pm

If the dummys Dems/Reps havent read this 1000 page Obama Healthcare Bible then they should not vote on it Yea or Nea.

Read the bill…READ THE BILL!! Read the bill…READ THE BILL!!Read the bill…READ THE BILL!!Read the bill…READ THE BILL!!Read the bill…READ THE BILL!!Read the bill…READ THE BILL!!

Hillbilly Deluxe

July 22nd, 2009
2:56 pm

We’ve created a society where being sick makes you feel special and gets you extra attention, and give you something to talk about

I’ve had to deal with the healthcare system on an almost daily basis for months. I’d give anything to have not had to do that.

We have a single payer plan that works moderately well, Medicare. Why not make that available to everyone and let the insurance companies fight over the needed Medigap coverage?

Not a bad idea. At least it’s a reasonable point for discussion.

Kamchak

July 22nd, 2009
2:56 pm

Paul

Simple? On health care reform? This isn’t a bumper-sticker/twitter issue. I think it’s gonna take many speeches to address this. Studied preparation is a refreshing change from the condescension from someone many wanted to have a beer with.

Paul

July 22nd, 2009
2:57 pm

Kamchak 2:47

I’m not sure if it’s not being able to resist a good idea gone bad as it is “I got my part in, I won’t worry about the rest.”

Kinda reminds me of the mortgage and banking fiasco. All the people working in their cubbyholes, all focused on what they could see right in front of them, vaguely aware there were many, many others involved and with an inkling that something was off, yet telling themselves “I’m not doing anything illegal, I’m just a small part of this.”

TnGelding

July 22nd, 2009
2:57 pm

eagle scout

July 22nd, 2009
2:36 pm

Except that the tax payer is paying for it.

DB, Gwinnettian

July 22nd, 2009
2:57 pm

HD @ 2.16, I suspect you might be somewhat underinformed as to what health insurance plans the congressfolk have at their disposal. It’s not one plan (singular) but rather a choice, unless it’s changed a lot since 2007.

Members of the House and Senate may be seen by the office of the attending physician in the U.S. Capitol (Navy doctors on active duty) when they have a health problem while in Washington, D.C. They may be referred to Walter Reed Army Hospital or Bethesda Naval Hospital for further treatment if necessary. They are not required to use this service and may seek private medical care while in Washington if they so desire.

If House and Senate members choose to use the Capitol attending physician and the Army and Navy hospitals while in D.C., they pay an annual fee (equivalent to being part of an HMO). If they seek private medical care while in D.C. or back in their home states, they use their private health insurance. If they are over 65, they use Medicare and whatever private supplemental insurance they may carry.

Members of Congress are eligible — like all other federal employees — to sign up for one of the “cafeteria” health insurance plans offered all other federal employees. If they sign up for one of these policies, the federal government pays two-thirds of the premium and the Congressman pays the other one-third. This is comparable to insurance offered by many private employers.

During the 26 years I served in Congress, I always signed up for one of the Blue Cross plans that had both deductibles and co-pays.

The family (spouse and children) of House and Senate members are not entitled to be treated by the Capitol attending physician and thus must be covered by private insurance. I always included my wife and minor children under my Blue Cross plan and paid the higher family premium.

It is legitimate to suggest that uninsured workers have the right to buy into one of the plans covering federal employees as a viable option for obtaining affordable health insurance. Since the group (all federal employees) is so large, the premiums are somewhat lower than policies offered to self-employed individuals or to the employees of small companies. Just don’t attack members of Congress for getting “free” insurance for themselves and their families whenever the subject is raised.

I only mention this because I heard the issue raised during a WNYC interview with Charlie Rangel the other day, and he answered that it’s his objective, via his House Ways and Means committee plan, to offer similar choices to other Americans who don’t have them now. In other words, he’s trying to do more or less what you’re asking for.

(I know, good luck with that in the compromise commitee…)

Doggone/GA

July 22nd, 2009
2:57 pm

“Who was it that said that getting the Dems to agree on any legislation “is like herding cats”?”

I don’t know who said that, but Will Rogers said: “I belong to no organized party. I am a Democrat.”

Truth

July 22nd, 2009
2:57 pm

Road Scholar… Quit talking with your mouth full. All I said was that I want to know exactly how it will effect me. It is pathetic how the VA hospitols are run. Even worse, that is exactly what our healthcare will look like if Obama gets his way.

Turd Ferguson

July 22nd, 2009
2:58 pm

Dems fail to realize that while JJ sint increasing income taxes he is increasing taxes on everything else. After nothing else remains, boy and girls he then will come for your income.

Believe it.

Paul

July 22nd, 2009
3:00 pm

Kamchak 2:47

I was thinking more along the lines of Pres Clinton’s “I feel your pain” connection. The guy was a policy whiz – which is why I mentioned those West Wing collegiate-style gabfests. But he knew how to read the situation and adapt – he did not use the same style for all his encounters with different audiences. He was well prepared, had a great grasp of the issues

but came off not as condescending but as someone you could have a beer with and talk things over with.

md

July 22nd, 2009
3:02 pm

The dems don’t march in lockstep because of individual thought like folks here want to believe. Its because the Blue Dogs still represent what the democratic party used to be. The mainstream democrats are just as bad as the mainstream republicans, all lost in their dogma.

Hail to the Blue Dogs for having the sense to remain true to more folks than the far left and far right.

Gale

July 22nd, 2009
3:02 pm

TnGelding @251 Good post and I agree. I think the insurance companies are the biggest problems with health care. Why should we create a system where they still have pwoer?

Bosch

July 22nd, 2009
3:03 pm

Kamchak,

Chuckle, chuckle, chuckle, my dear sir:

“This isn’t a bumper-sticker/twitter issue”

Surely you jest old sport – this IS a blog ya’ know where EVERYTHING is a freaking bumper sticker issue!

JK :-)

Debbie,

You should see my 13 year old daughter when she sees Vampire Eric. It’s almost embarrassing to watch. Is it bad of us to let our daughter watch that show? We make her turn her head during the sex parts.

Lord Help Us

July 22nd, 2009
3:04 pm

Paul,

I don’t blame the lobbyists and special interests for gov’t inefficency. I blame voters that swallow the crap that lobbyists and special interests cook up and politicians that take their donations and are too lazy or incompetent to tell them to ‘take a hike.’

NRA, Unions, Southern Baptists, pro-environmental groups, corporate groups, AIPAC…the list goes on, and on, and on…not all are bad, but they are ALL myopic.

Once our elected officials yield to these organizations and start doing their bidding at the expense of their constituents, voters should be smart enough to chuck them out regardless of their party affiliation.

When I’m President, I will fix this…

Bosch

July 22nd, 2009
3:05 pm

Paul,

“but came off not as condescending but as someone you could have a beer with and talk things over with.”

Why, oh why did you open that door?

TnGelding

July 22nd, 2009
3:06 pm

I Report :-) You Whine :-(

July 22nd, 2009
2:54 pm

The GOP was wrong in 1993 and its wrong now. It’s too early to say if the stimulus will work or not. It has had to help some up to this point. Things for millions of households would definitely be worse. Those of us that haven’t been affected by the recession need to step up to the plate and hit a home run.

Couldn’t you use another Escalade? But I guess you’d be more interested in something Lincoln has to offer now.

TnGelding

July 22nd, 2009
3:08 pm

Hillbilly Deluxe

July 22nd, 2009
2:56 pm

Thanks for not correcting my grammar and typos.

Bosch

July 22nd, 2009
3:08 pm

md,

“The mainstream democrats are just as bad as the mainstream republicans, all lost in their dogma.”

Remind me – what is that dogma again?

Bosch

July 22nd, 2009
3:11 pm

Lord Help Us,

“When I’m President, I will fix this…”

I hope so.

Kamchak

July 22nd, 2009
3:12 pm

“I got my part in, I won’t worry about the rest.” Yes, very well put. Congresspersons can however, object to a changed idea and appeal directly to the voters and say, “Sure this could mean $ for our district, but it’s bad in the long run because…”, but a office worker in his/her cubicle faces termination if they get in the way of the mortgage application fees revenue stream.

TnGelding

July 22nd, 2009
3:12 pm

Truth

July 22nd, 2009
2:57 pm

VA might be the “Cadillac” system then.

DebbieDoRight

July 22nd, 2009
3:13 pm

Bosch:

He’s too smug looking for me like he wears that T-shirt from Right Red Fred that says “I’m too sexy…..”

The only REAL hunks on TV anymore are those guys in those tight football uniforms!!! i LOVE watching the NFL network!!! Right now they’re playing re-runs of the last superbowl and they have a shot, (close up shot), or Larry Fitzgerald’s buns!! OMG!!! My eyes roll back in my head and I start slobbering and gasping for air!!! I hope the NFL network stays on FOREVER!!!…..yummmy!!!

Paul

July 22nd, 2009
3:14 pm

DB, Gwinnettian

Here’s a riddle.

How does Rep Charlie Rangel, chairman of the tax writing House Ways and Means Committee, do things on a much grander scale than Gov Sara Palin?

Well, poor Sara, with all those ethics complaints against her, has spent a half million in legal things since her ethics troubles started months and months and months ago.

Rep Rangel, however, has spent nearly three quarters of a million dollars in legal fees just since the start of the year for legal fees for his ethics troubles.

And Rangel has her beat, too, on the breadth of troubles. Palin’s fall into a relatively narrow list of complaints. Rangel’s, though, well, his are all over the map!!!

Who says Dems don’t do things with more style than Republicans?

TnGelding

July 22nd, 2009
3:14 pm

md

July 22nd, 2009
3:02 pm

I agree. Like I’ve said before, if the GOP had worked with them they’d still be in the majority.

DebbieDoRight

July 22nd, 2009
3:14 pm

that should be shot OF Larry Fitzgeralds……….just thinking about it made my heart flutter, my eyes glaze over and my typing REALLY bad!!! :)

Turd Ferguson

July 22nd, 2009
3:14 pm

Dogma = Doggie doody

Bosch

July 22nd, 2009
3:14 pm

Debbie,

Soccer players aren’t bad lookin’ either – ya’ know – from what I hear.

Paul

July 22nd, 2009
3:15 pm

Bosch 3:05

I believe Kamchak opened the door and I walked through it -

Kamchak

July 22nd, 2009
3:15 pm

Paul

I never heard anyone say that they wanted to have a beer with Clinton. A cigar maybe…..

Hillbilly Deluxe

July 22nd, 2009
3:15 pm

DB

I wasn’t completely up to speed on their plan I’ll admit but it is better than many people have. If Rangel could get that through it wouldn’t be so bad, but like you say it has to get through committee and get who knows how many unrelated amendments tacked to it that have nothing to do with it. I’d love to see both parties call a truce on this and agree to no non-health care related amendments. Fat chance of that though.

I’d really like to see health care cut loose from employers. It’s a burden on both employer and employee. It’s obviously a cost problem for employers who have to compete with say a Canadian compnay who has different issues to deal with. An employee may have to stay in a job making less money or whatever because of portability and pre-existing condition isses.

And for folks who have good insurance through their employers or through there own purchases, what happens when you have that illness or injury that pushes you to your lifetime coverage limit? Then what do you do? Not many think about that but it can happen no matter how well prepared you are.

@@

July 22nd, 2009
3:16 pm

Hillbilly:

I was thinking more along the lines of the government hook up with COBRA, bringing down the premiums of course.

Hillbilly Deluxe

July 22nd, 2009
3:17 pm

TnGelding

July 22nd, 2009
3:18 pm

Paul

July 22nd, 2009
3:14 pm

I like Charlie, but I’m not defending his ethics. But he has been around a while longer.

Bosch

July 22nd, 2009
3:19 pm

Kamchak @ 3:15 –

Snort. :-)

eagle scout

July 22nd, 2009
3:19 pm

“We have a single payer plan that works moderately well, Medicare. Why not make that available to everyone and let the insurance companies fight over the needed Medigap coverage?”

I couldn’t agree more….This year I got sick for the very first time in my life. I caught pneumonia which put me in the hospital for 3 weeks…Then two weeks in a rehab clinic. After that due to being bed ridden for that amount of time I ended up with a blood clot in my leg which again landed me in the hospital for a couple of days. Total cost out of pocket 165.00. This amount also has included all my follow-up visits to my primary physician for blood tests, and a weekly visit to my home by a physical therapists.

Can one imagine what the cost of this would have been without medicare or major insurance coverage.

Bosch

July 22nd, 2009
3:19 pm

Paul,

And Charlie Rangel doesn’t whine like a little baby anytime he’s criticized and quit.

Matilda

July 22nd, 2009
3:19 pm

DebbieDoRight, how could it be possible for the book version to be hotter than THAT slice of undead tastiness? oh my my…

Re the topic: Face it, folks. Some Americans simply prefer a privately-employed, bottom-line, bonus-hungry EXECUTIVE to make their health care decisions FOR them, tell them which doctors to see, and deny their claims at every opportunity, than to allow the government to provide a public OPTION (fyi: option means choice) to compete with the aforementioned privately-employed, self-serving execs whose cares do not include the health of others. Free enterprise ain’t free unless millions of people can be excluded on principle, you know! As such, these folks shouldn’t bother listening to the President explain what he’s trying to do. They should remain ignorant and continue protesting bitterly about the injustice that would occur if a cancer patient could get well without having to lose every single asset he or she worked 30 – 40 years to accumulate. Death comes to everyone, after all, and if some people suffer needlessly, then that just helps them feel better about themselves.

TR

July 22nd, 2009
3:21 pm

The GOP has no power at all. If the left-wing Democrats are blaming Republicans for the Health Care disaster, they are in free-fall along with Obama’s approval ratings.

The Dems have absolute power. The Health Care bill has imploded because the Obama administration and the far left in congress insisted on slamming through this mammoth bill which will push through huge tax increases, massive increases in regulation and send spending through the roof.

The Dems have blown their victories in 2006 and 2008.

TnGelding

July 22nd, 2009
3:21 pm

Hillbilly Deluxe

July 22nd, 2009
3:15 pm

I agree about the burden. You’d think the Chamber of Commerce would be fighting for some kind of change. We simply must make it cheaper to do business in this country if we want to compete in the global marketplace.

Lord Help Us

July 22nd, 2009
3:21 pm

To rephrase a popular GOP mantra…

‘Government is not the problem, the people we elect to Goverment are the problem…’

The ability to govern should be a requirement for elected office. This requirement would have spared us the disaster of the Bush Presidency…

Class of '98

July 22nd, 2009
3:23 pm

Jay, you’re right. It could be the things that rallies Dems to Obama’s side.

But Dems also know that their seats are not lifetime appointments, and that if healthcare reform is rushed through and turns into a disaster, they will lose their jobs just like Obama will.

This isn’t about party loyalty for these guys. It’s about self-preservation. This healthcare bill stinks to high heaven and they sense it.

Rushing to push it through in August 2009 will only make them look worse in eyes of voters when they go to the ballot box in ‘10 and ‘12.

Brian

July 22nd, 2009
3:24 pm

53% now oppose as of today per Rasmussen

Shouldn’t it be about what’s right for Americans instead of party loyalty?

Does the government have the right to mandate or require every citizen to have health insurance?
Then penalize and tax employers and individuals for not providing or having coverage?

You can keep your current plan if you like it.
That is until you loose you job and or coverage. Then you will be forced to purchase the government specified plan, required to include all the benefits the government deems necessary and not be allowed to purchase private insurance.

Current plans do little or nothing to control or limit costs which is what most Americans want to be reformed, not universal coverage for all. In fact it may even drive up your premiums.

Then there all sorts of other points like rationing care, lower quality care, how to pay for it, deciding who gets treatments, etc.

But we’ve got to rush to get this passesd huh? This is the issue that our president and democratic congress feels most important now given the state of the economy and unemployment huh?

Got to keep reading up on this one! ;)

TnGelding

July 22nd, 2009
3:25 pm

TR

July 22nd, 2009
3:21 pm

Not yet, but they’re trying to.

They killed Hillary’s plan, too. And from what little I know about it, it was much better thought out than the current proposals.

Hillbilly Deluxe

July 22nd, 2009
3:25 pm

TN Gelding

What typos and spelling errors? It’s a pretty small minded person who thinks a word can only be spelled one way, I think. ;-)

@@

Wouldn’t be totally opposed to the Cobra idea if I understand it correctly. As you say the two problems with the current Cobra is cost and the fact it lasts 18 months (unless that has changed). You can’t extend it even at a higher premium as far as I know.

I’ll admit to not totally understanding insurance but I think it’s designed for us not to understand.

DB, Gwinnettian

July 22nd, 2009
3:26 pm

Paul @ 3.14, no offense, but shiny-object distraction much?

Put another way, I kinda care about this whole 1/6-of-the-GDP management issue a tad more than how this or that politician is financing his or her ethics defense.

TnGelding

July 22nd, 2009
3:27 pm

Class of ‘98

July 22nd, 2009
3:23 pm

Can’t Democrats have principles? Granted few do, but there are exceptions.

md

July 22nd, 2009
3:27 pm

Are reforms needed for healthcare, public corporate compensation, tort system, etc?

You bet they are.

But not by one political party or another. If done by only one, it will always be flawed. No different than the good ole boy compensation system or the private insurerer health system they are trying to fix.

If there is no compromise for all involved, it will not work. The car needs to stay in the middle of the road and out of the left and right ditches.

Bosch

July 22nd, 2009
3:28 pm

Brian,

“Does the government have the right to mandate or require every citizen to have health insurance”

It does if you believe that whole “life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness” crap.

TGT

July 22nd, 2009
3:31 pm

To echo IR/YW and Hillbilly on the F-22 vote: By my count, joining Saxby and company, 15 of the 40 Nay votes recorded (see here for the tally) were by Democrats and Independents. This includes liberal icons such as Dodd, Feinstein, and Boxer.

DebbieDoRight

July 22nd, 2009
3:31 pm

Bosch: Some soccer players are cute, but for sheer sexiness you gotta LOVE a muscular guy in those tight football uniforms!!! And the best part is, they have these helmets on so you don’t have to look at their faces!!! Now if only they’d find gags for the mouths…………….

Matilda: DebbieDoRight, how could it be possible for the book version to be hotter than THAT slice of undead tastiness? oh my my…

Girl please!!! I think I enjoy the books more because it lets ME put a face and a body to those hunky “undead fantasies”!!!

DebbieDoRight

July 22nd, 2009
3:33 pm

TnGelding: Can’t Democrats have principles? Granted few do, but there are exceptions.

HA!!! Funny!! Well, that’s what you get when you enter politics………you get to become a politician and become hated by all!!!

Mrs. Godzilla

July 22nd, 2009
3:35 pm

Chill, dudes.

Obama’s got this.

We will get a heathcare reform bill this year.

It will be only the first step.

Kamchak

July 22nd, 2009
3:37 pm

“Soccer players aren’t bad lookin’ either – ya’ know – from what I hear.”

Yeah, Heather Mitts immediately leaps to mind.

Turd Ferguson

July 22nd, 2009
3:37 pm

If its anything like Cobra then look forward to high premiums and few benefits.

Its a lose/lose situation.

Obama has got it alright. Not sure what it is but he’s got it.

@@

July 22nd, 2009
3:37 pm

There’s been way too much fraud under Medicare. Looking at the government’s lack of oversight, I’d be afraid it would only escalate under the tremendous burden.

The government can subsidize COBRA and extend coverage — make it a joint venture. The government already recommends it on their Dept. of Labor site.

I don’t know that much about it either, Hillbilly. We carry catastrophic keeping enough in reserve for the high deductible. After that’s spent, we’re good to go. Low monthly premiums.

Paul

July 22nd, 2009
3:39 pm

Kamchak 3:15

Booooooooooooooo

:-)

funny –

Bosch 3:19

[[And Charlie Rangel doesn’t whine like a little baby anytime he’s criticized and quit.]]

Look at those charges – maybe he should quit – his chairmanship, at least

“You can have my gavel when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers”

DB, Gwinnettian 3:26

[[Paul @ 3.14, no offense, but shiny-object distraction much?]]

Naw. No offense. I was just looking for an opening to lampoon the head taxwriting guy in Congress. Your post was it.

Bosch – tells you how low the standards have fallen and what we’re willing to tolerate, eh? Remember what I said about I’d rather have a guy in Congress who’s an alleycat than a guy, particularly the chief tax writer, who gets me in my wallet?

Shawny

July 22nd, 2009
3:39 pm

“The refusal of George Bush to rein in the excesses of the Republican-controlled Congress, and the refusal of the Republican Congress to do the same with Bush, in the end did long-term damage to both the country and the party.”

I can’t disagree with this opinion. Interestingly enough, you NEED the blue dog dems to reign in the Pelosi/Obama spending spree or the dems will do the EXACT same thing and lose their positional advantage.

Brian

July 22nd, 2009
3:41 pm

Bosch – so it’s ok even though the majority of Americans now oppose it and growing daily? That’s true representation of the will of the people?

Hillbilly Deluxe

July 22nd, 2009
3:42 pm

Well I guess I’m all out of ideas. I do hope they come up with something that works and I don’t really care who gets the credit if it’s good for the everyday people.

Bosch

July 22nd, 2009
3:42 pm

Paul,

Alleycats are kick ass!

Gale

July 22nd, 2009
3:43 pm

I want to know how they intend to require health insurance for someone who cannot even afford his next meal? Well, of course I know, everyone else will pay for it. So, if that guy gets his health insuance paid for, why should I pay for my own and his. I’ll just drop mine and let the government pay for my insurance too. This is all too silly for me. Just run it like medicare. You are an American – you have coverage; whether you have a job or not.

It looks to me like the big hassles are trying to keep insurance companies in business. They do not have a lot of fans outside of the politicians who get campaign dollars from them.

Bosch

July 22nd, 2009
3:44 pm

Brian,

How do you know what every one who “disagrees” with it opinion is – maybe they want it done sooner. A vote in the “disagree” column doesn’t equate to not wanting healthcare reform.