The death knell sounds for universal health coverage

Crash and burn, yay!

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I’m gonna get my mileage out of this post, proving that I know of what I say and that I am not a welcher-

By AJC/DNC Management

I love thee Oblahmi because no one will get Republicans back in power quicker than he will.

bwa

By AJC/DNC Management

I love Oblahmasan because he is an economic dimwit and in a long, deep economic depression, which is where this country is headed, I will be able to buy all your expensive stuff real cheap! XXXOOOXXXOblahmi

Except health care, we’ll all pay up the kiester for that.

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“I will not increase your taxes, not one penny.” Obama campaign promise
“Cap and trade will reduce CO2 emission by 80% and create jobs.” -Obama May 2009
“Healthcare reform will not increase federal spending.” -Obama July 2009

Funny how an agenda blinds a non-bias journalist..

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But seriously, Jay, a commenter over at 538 had a very good point I’ll just copy/paste without further comment, myself:

In the cited poll, Obama’s handling of the healthcare issue (for example) is approved by 49%, disapproved by 44%, and 7% have no opinion. Even if healthcare was the single most important issue for every single person polled, does this mean that 44% of the people would vote against him if the election were held again today?

If polling outfits would make sure to phrase their question so as to quantify all 4 ‘Goldilocks groups’ (too much, too little, just right, and the ever-present No Opinion) , it would provide much more usable information.

stuff awaits. Later, all.

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USinUK: it’s a piece by the “Onion News Network” reporting a study that children are strongly opposed to healthcare, like vaccinations, going to the doctor, etc. One question in the survey: “Are you strongly opposed to government run healthcare and do you want a lollipop?” Vast majority answered “Yes!”

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Hey USinUK! Can you get to Youtube? Search ‘onion healthcare children’. Haha!

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Matilda –

“Hey USinUK! Can you get to Youtube? Search ‘onion healthcare children’. Haha!”

firewall no likee youtube … or facebook … but I’ll definitely look for it tonight when I get home

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“even the “great communicator” used them”

Don’t you mean ESPECIALLY “the “great communicator” used them”"?

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I pay $3200 a year for my family plan, dental included. Don’t have healthcare? Get a decent education and a job!!

Of course.., Obama’s spend, spend, spend progressive policies clearly aren’t intended to help people get there. You’ll obviously need some self responsiblity and determination thats associated with republican idealism.., oh the horror.

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Genome Project reports that RealityKing is missing the “empathy gene”.

Meanwhile Joey proves a point I was going to make earlier that there are going to be certain people like Whiner who just will not get the joke.

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ByteMe –

“Meanwhile Joey proves a point I was going to make earlier that there are going to be certain people like Whiner who just will not get the joke”

yes, because National Health Care is the BIGGEST THREAT EVAH!!! my god, people might actually be able to go to the doctor’s office for preventative care!!! talk about a fate worse than OBL moving in next door!!!

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That was a fun bit of fiction. Here’s another. Pelosi says she will save $500 billion dollars by taking it from medicare and medicaid and improving efficiency. this will be achieved by creating 88 new govt. healthcare agencies. the Congressional Budget Office, however, exposed this as fiction and said the plan had no savings, and cost were underestimated.

Isn’t fiction fun.

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booger: the real fiction is that the bills coming out of the committees and from the floor of each chamber are the real deal. They’re not.

The real deal takes place after the floor votes when they go on vacation and the conference committee gets together to come up with a single bill both chambers will accept. Everything else is for show.

But it keeps the 24-hour news cycle going.

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and here Reagan is at his acceptance speech

http://www.wisconsinhistory.org/museum/exhibits/elections/images/1980_ReaganGOP1_E10-2.jpg

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Jay’s correct: we’re paying $12K per year for a family of four BEFORE deductibles and co-pays and things the plan won’t cover (like dental and vision). I’m all FOR affordable universal bankruptcy insurance (a.k.a.: a public-option healthcare plan), because as a small business owner, it will lower my costs.

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68% children said “Noooooooooo”.

Hilarious.

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Haha, doggy had to skip over a bunch of pictures in his “Reagan speech” search-

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=reagan%20speech&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B3GGGL_enUS288US288&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

See for yourself, hardly any Prompters.

He was da Man!

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Very cute, jay. /snark/

I’ve often wondered why you don’t draw attention to programs such as these:

Wal-Mart wants your rash and strep throat — Consumers, citing convenience and prices, are heading to clinics in retail stores for vaccinations and treatment of minor ailments.

Something to do with Wal-Mart? Innovative thinking in big business?

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Getalife…you sign, I’ll buy it…

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Normal: I am a Cook/Denfense Contractor..I have been trying for almost a decade to sell my invention, the Ham Grenade to the Army, and the movie rights to my experinces over there (working title “Pork Chop Kill”)

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For the perpetually stupid and gullible that dominate the BSGOP:

South Carolina Gov. Mark Sanford, still clinging to office after admitting to an extramarital affair, wrote in an opinion piece released Sunday that God will change him so he can emerge from the scandal a more humble and effective leader.

“(W)hile none of us has the chance to attend our own funeral, in many ways I feel like I was at my own in the past weeks, and surprisingly I am thankful for the perspective it has afforded,” Sanford wrote in the opinion piece distributed statewide for Sunday newspapers.

Sanford, a two-term Republican, returned from a mysterious, nearly weeklong disappearance last month to reveal a romance with a longtime friend in Argentina. In a series of Associated Press interviews, he described the woman as his “soul mate” but said he would work to repair his relationship with his wife, Jenny, the mother of their four sons.

Some lawmakers have called for Sanford to resign, and one state senator plans hearings on whether state money was used to facilitate the trysts. A criminal probe found nothing illegal.

Sanford and his wife left the state earlier this week for an undisclosed location and are expected to return Sunday evening, spokesman Joel Sawyer said.

In the opinion, Sanford vows to work with lawmakers he’s long fought and cites scripture and his faith in God — just as he’s done in his few public appearances since admitting the affair.

“It’s in the spirit of making good from bad that I am committing to you and the larger family of South Carolinians to use this experience to both trust God in his larger work of changing me, and from my end, to work to becoming a better and more effective leader,” he wrote.

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Reality: pay $3200 a year for my family plan, dental included. Don’t have healthcare? Get a decent education and a job!!

What about the millions who have been laid off who have good education and HAD a good job? What’s your wise words to them?

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You welched. The bet was for a week.

Ha! Got you!

By getalife

This one goes out to the welcher Andy

You started calling me a welcher after a day.

I rule.

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heading home … ya’ll have a good night!

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You got nothing Andy.

After I called you put as a wlcher you posted two not pro Obama comments.

Welcher.

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60 years of working for National healthcare reform…..

It’s gonna happen this year.

Don’t bet against us.

My question…..will there even be an August recess?

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Jay

July 20th, 2009
12:09 pm
RealityKing, I’m just guessin’ here, but I’d bet your health care costs you a lot more than that. The $3,200 you paid out of your pocket is just a fraction of what your employer paid to cover you and your family, and since that’s part of the cost of YOUR compensation, in effect that too came out of your pocket.

Just wait to see what your friendly federal goverment policy will cost us all.

And the insurance executives will be paid by you all at the tip of a gun.

Too rich.

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Who’s going to pay for national health
care? Who was born with a right to health care?

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Decade after decade, the same mindless goose-stepping goons of conformity and cowardice continue to establish roadblocks of human stupity and hatred in the path of progress and positivity. These Repug tyroglodytes – every single one of them – should be barred, from this day forward, from EVER receiving a bit of benefit from improvements made in all healthcare-related matters. Barred from all treatments. Barred from all drugs. This policy should, in particular – affect the lives of their children. And their children thereafter. Ler it be thus. Praise Geeesussah!

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Don’t scare me like that, Jay! Not that I’m all that optimistic that we’re going to get simple, affordable health care reform, what with our elected officials being in the pockets of the entrenched interests with their big, fat campaign contributions. Baucus, for example, probably doesn’t go to the bathroom without the permission of the insurance industry. And then when they go, well, he’s probably there to take care of the clean up.

Single Payer is the answer, and it’s not even on the table. But that’s the only way to really do this right. For those who agree, we need to keep beating the drum on this.

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Tom

July 20th, 2009
12:45 pm
Decade after decade, the same mindless goose-stepping goons of conformity and cowardice continue to establish roadblocks of human stupity and hatred in the path of progress and positivity. These Repug tyroglodytes – every single one of them – should be barred, from this day forward, from EVER receiving a bit of benefit from improvements made in all healthcare-related matters. Barred from all treatments. Barred from all drugs. This policy should, in particular – affect the lives of their children. And their children thereafter. Ler it be thus. Praise Geeesussah!

That is all that most intelligent people ask for.

But the federal goverment does not give us that option. SOMEBODY has to pay for ya’ll’s stupidity.

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@@ – regarding Walmart.

What walmart showed was that you CAN reduce rates and create a tremendous profit. Remember before Walmart starting reducing rates on common medicines, we had to pay our total deductible, (whether for $25, or $15, etc); for those medicines. WalMart dropped the price down to $4; and then, lo and behold EVERYONE started doing it too. Competition is always the answer against a monopoly.

AmVet – regarding Gov. Mark Sanford..

All he has to do is to show the pictures of when he was standing tall with the American and Confederate flags blowing in the distance and his flag pin on his lapel. Remember Regan said, they’ll remember the pictures and forget the words……

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One more among a stunning and, might I add, ever growing list of failures by the all thumbs Obumbler administration.

With Obumbler we are, truly, damned if he does (increasing deficits) or damned if he doesn’t (fiddling on healthcare and Gitmo and other lower priorities while the economy burns under the full weight of the Obumbler depression.)

Yet, what should one expect from on so callow and inexperienced, so tone deaf and uncaring of the plight of those who suffer at the wrong end of the obumbler depression, that he would gin up untold cost to take Horseface to a Broadway play – money that could have been used to feed the hungry or save a home from foreclosure.

I have seen the show before and now the rerun, “Welcome back Carter!!!”

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Wyld Byll

Regarding your post at 7:17 pm on Sunday—what kind of movie did you say our president was trying out for?

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You rightwingers crack me up. You think telling lies and wishing failure on Obama will change anything?

Reminds me of an old saying:

If you wish in one hand and poop in the other hand, one hand will be empty and the other hand will be full of poop.

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As I recall, it went something like, “Welcome back, your dreams are your ticket out…”

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Its not a matter of wishes he will fail, just a matter of time. The shark is beginning to eat its own guts.

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“Smails”. sorry

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I don’t hate Obozo, I think he’s great.

The Republicans have struggled for years for trying to get voters to like them, who would have ever thought just a few short weeks of Obozo would bring them to us in flocks?

Why do you think I do not love Obozo, gitmo?

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Yeah, I know what kind of movie. I just wanted to see if you had the nads to repeat it while Jay is paying attention. Guess not….

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The Death Knell Sounds For Universal Health Coverage: I can’t get Jays’ post and nobody has brought me up to speed and the above sounds scarey…so what has happened? Has the bandaid and iodine companies gone bust?

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bring them to us in flocks?

What ya smokin’, I Report?
You’ve lost the latinos, the gays, the young, the blacks. All you have left are angry old white guys. They are coming back to you alright…with the help of a walker.

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Normal,
the onion news spot shows children getting DR shots and says children do NOT want more health care. ie. they don’t want to have to make more DR visits so they are against health care.

It’s good so it is worth watching later if you can.

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Well, all this talk about health care insurance likely won’t matter for most of us much longer anyway. First, people without jobs cannot afford health insurance. Second, younger people will just continue to refuse to bother with insurance unless or until they get a job that provides it for no added cost or until they really need medical care. Third, rising costs and copays coupled with reduced coverage will finally get everyone else to drop coverage since they would do better to simply negotiate directly with the doctor, etc. Insurance companies are long overdue to go the way that their predecessors, the dinosaurs, went a few thousand years ago.

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Joey – you commented.

July 20th, 2009
1:11 pm
jt:

“You may be onto something with your 12:54.

Imagine this:

Everyone who wants National Healthcare, including everyone who votes for the legislation, and everyone who receives a pay check from the Federal Government is required to participate in the National Healthcare program. The cost of which is covered by their taxes.

Everyone, including business owners, who does not want National Healthcare must provide medical coverage for themselves at their own expense. Perhaps they will pool their resources to provide a medical insurance program for themselves.”

jt replied-

The goverment will never let us. SOMEONE has to subsidize stupidity.

Another one that helps.

I would rather be a free man in my grave,………..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qvm6Uv8Du_I&feature=related

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So Whiner, want to tell us why you repeated that transparently phony North Vietnamese Gen. Giap quote over the weekend?

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I’d rather be a free man in my grave,

than living as a puppet or a slave.

The harder they come,

The harder they fall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGE4dnrPPZQ&feature=related

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I’ve only read about 1/3 of this thread but I feel I must comment on this brilliance @ 12:00:

“Don’t have healthcare? Get a decent education and a job!! ”

And of course, Reality King is completely over looking the people who are educated and have good jobs, that don’t provide insurance.

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Whiner, that quote is bogus. And I think you know it’s bogus.

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funny… this is satire, published by the onion which all rational people know is meant to be funny, and look at all the conservatives that are cluelessly saying ‘i told you so’. made my day.

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DB,

Don’t ruin Andy’s legends. That’s just mean.

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Pressure Drop.

Toots and the Maytalls or the Clash?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyv16mZakVE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBEd4mvXGbM&feature=related

or the Specials.????

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUxWmDgSXP4&feature=related

I need to know ya’ll’s opinion.

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RealityKing 12:00

[[I pay $3200 a year for my family plan, dental included. Don’t have healthcare? Get a decent education and a job!!]]
Our system is set up so the kind of coverage you get and how much you pay is determined by who you work for.

It’s not about a decent education – it’s about the job.

UAW workers and other union workers? Gold plated coverage at little cost to themselves. I was vacationing in upstate NY – item in the paper – the village workers are unionized. Never paid any of their costs. One year to negotiate a contract – now they pay, per month, $10 for an individual and $20 for a family.

My sister – goooood education, a teacher (that’s the ‘job’ part) in Texas – health insurance is by district, for all employees. Policy for her and her husband is over $900 a month. You read it right –

I come back to a basic question: if we were starting from scratch, with no policies or costs in place, is the system we have the one we would choose to implement?

I think not.

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Kamchak 1:47 pm

Are you an 8th grader? Between the use of the slang “nads” and your desire to see a reprint that you apparently consider to be a “dirty” word, one can only conclude that you lack maturity and perspective.

If it makes you happy, I’ll reaffirm that I wrote something along the line that, when face to face with world leaders, Obumbler is so submissive that one might conclude that he takes on the demeanor of the lead in a bukkake movie. There, it is written in context and appropriately to describe his demeanor.

Now, among mature adults, there may be those who disagree with my conclusion, but I doubt that there will be any who become upset over my clinical reference to such vivid imagery.

Are you happy, now and, most of all, will you leave me alone?

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electrician@2:11–Here’s how it fits in. You have an insurance company in the middle–squarely between you and the healthcare providers. The insurance company makes its money by squeezing both of you–by maximizing your company’s premiums and your deductibles and co-pays, and by minimizing the reimbursement for services to your doctors, HMO, hospital, etc. If, in renegotiating a services contract, a Wellstar decides it cannot afford to treat so many covered patients for such a low reimbursement, your company’s insurance company will turn to other providers that will do so. You are merely an afterthought. Believe me, your company’s insurance company’s executives will not say, “But if we stop doing business with Wellstar, Electrician will be very unhappy.”

And that’s it in a nutshell. The insurance company exists to maximize its profit and minimize its costs. Your 25 years as an employee covered by your company’s medical insurance plan bears absolutely zero weight on the decision.

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Gandalf, be careful with what you write. You wrote: (Mufti of Gwinnett!)
———–
Heh, heh, I saw (Muffin of Gwinnett!)…oops!

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Kamchak–

Wyld Byll Hyltnyr @ 2:14, put that one on the list, verboten oder nicht verboten hier

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NORMAL–gotcha…never expected THAT bus to stop, anyway, but I do wish the passangers and the conductor would quoit chunkin’ rocks out the window at me, too…

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@@–redistricting…I agree with the Libertarian candidate after the last re-draw, “a drunken oragutan with a box of crayons could have done a better job.”

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Are you happy, now and, most of all, will you leave me alone?

What is it with your kind? You come here posting trash in order to get your fix in the form of a rise and then you think you have the right to privacy…on a blog. Grow up.

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Health care reform at the very least (!) ought to make all health insurance not for profit. It’s bad enough that insurance, which adds nothing to actual patient care, is part of the equation, but when you factor in the profit motive you have a clear and corrupting conflict of interest. That’s why they routinely raise premiums and deductibles, deny claims and/or rescind policies.

Other countries recognized this long ago and adopted universal health care plans that eliminate for-profit insurance companies from the basic equation. We need to do the same thing.

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NORMAL–sin and the first stone: Ah, but when the Conductor is the Messiah, the sanctified passengers get a better shot…!

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By all means, keep squeezing Medicare reimbursements to doctors and we’ll end up with even fewer providers who accept Medicare.

My current physician won’t accept Medicare because of its low reimbursement rates and the slow turnaround on claims. His office will file the paperwork on my behalf, with any Medicare payment to be sent directly to me. If it were not for the fact that I’m also covered by a private medical insurance plan, I would have no choice but to change doctors.

Physicians’ refusal to accept Medicare patients is becoming commonplace. And Congress is playing a very dangerous game by using a reduction in Medicare reimbursement rates as a means of lowering the projected cost of universal health care. By so doing, Congress is making Medicare even more unacceptable to health care providers.

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Kamchak–it’s amazing, isn’t it? And really the AJC ought to give us an explanation so we know and don’t come to the conclusion that there’s something political and or personal at work…it really does bring their credibility into question and stymies timely, effective response and, as you and I know, leads to misunderstanding and, for lack of a better word, hurt feelings. Funny thing though, had one held this a.m. for just a few minutes, understood to a degree and was able to correct it and get it past. But the prompt release in relation to the days-long delays on others…well…go figure.

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electrician@2:34: Yes, the “Obama” plan might help your situation–but only if a public plan is included. If there were a public plan, private insurers would be forced to compete with it for business. If a private plan refused to contract with providers nearer your home at a reasonable cost, your employer could opt for the public plan. That’s why the insurers are fighting the public plan tooth and nail.

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That’s what Jimmy Carter would do!

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“Misunderstanding”—yes unfortunately that is the precise word. Also unfortunate is WB’s posts, no misunderstanding there. Probably the most obscene thing I’ve seen in my short time here.

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Gandalf, just a little Iranian trivia, back in the late ’70s, early ’80s, the Iranian Navy bought 3 Russian Kilo diesel boats (Subs).
two collided and sunk, the third went out on trails and never returned.
I don’t think I’d worry about that, and as you know, the Tomcat is yesterdays news and has been retired…

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Gandalf…anyway, I was thinking of selling her to France, that way it would always surrender…

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I can hear it now…

“NO HEALTHCARE, NO PEACE”

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Speaking of James Earl, I am still miffed at how the MSM buried the fact that 18 out of the 19 homicide bombers involved in 9/11 slipped through the Panama Canal.

The one that we once owned!

I knew that move would come back to haunt us…

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Who wants to give up their self-destructive lifestyles?

JOSEF, The only vice I have left is the one on my work bench….

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DB, Gwinnettian July 20th, 2009 1:47 pm SAID: Whiner, that quote is bogus. And I think you know it’s bogus.

CHRIS SAYS: You just realized that??? LOL. A lot of what Whiner says is bogus. This is the same Whiner who believes that our nation’s laws are based on the Declaration of Independence instead of the Constitution. But then, what would you expect of small minds.? Whiner must have been home schooled……………….

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The Ethiopians have a saying, “the L-rd helps the rich. The poor can beg.”

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Mrs. Godzilla

July 20th, 2009
3:13 pm

Turd covered his droppings with “I think”.

Turd Ferguson

July 20th, 2009
3:07 pm

Just pretend your tax dollars are going for national defense and it shouldn’t upset you so much.

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Turd,

When you get to the check in desk just outside the pearly gates….

tell em…..”following your rules….well it got a little old”

I’m not sure that’ll get ya’ in.

just saying…

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Normal, that’s a good one.

I tell people the truth, I’ve given up more sh-it than most people ever started. And I’m keeping my few remaining ones…

Now, now, peeps. The “free market” has done an excellent job vis a vis our healthcare system. After all it’s not like we’re ranked 37th in the world or anything. (Oh wait! Really?? We are 37th???)

But I feel confident these titans of industry will sort out this health care mess. (And decide who lives and who dies.)

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TnGelding July 20th, 2009 3:16 pm SAID: Just pretend your tax dollars are going for national defense and it shouldn’t upset you so much.

CHRIS SAID: HAHAHA. That should fool’em!!!! LMAO

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And now a dose of reality:

A Bill Moyers Essay on the Influence of Money on the Health Care Debate:

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/bill-moyers-essay-influence-money-health-c

I have little confidence in any health care bill with these donors spending so much money on it.

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getalife–an interesting post. No fan of Fierce Advocate, but his appointment of Dr. Benjamin is one of the best appointments for a post of this or any previous administrations I can recall and my hat’s off to him.

And Aetna? ANGRY BLACK MAN where are you when I need you!

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I’m going to leave you guys for awhile with this thought on the health care situation…enjoy..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yiYbCJitvQ – 104k -

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just showed up Josef. Trying to read and get caught up. Had the family reunion this weekend. Then it was back to the salt mines this morning.

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“The funniest thing about this whole discussion on Wyld Byll’s post is that I would never have known what bukkake meant had you not protested so much.”

And if someone had compared Bush to an Asian porn actress your reaction would be this casual?

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One look at COTW’s post @ 3:07 should be enough to make everyone want to see healthcare reform. That is completely insane!! Maybe I should start my own insurance company.

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Whoops!

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Kamchak:

The leftists calling Bush “The Chimperor in Chief” was something I found far more offensive.

Freedom of expression (porn) in “the arts” — that’s a liberal’s purrrrrview.

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Just received this and thought I would share it.

Dear American liberals, leftists, social progressives, socialists, Marxists and Obama supporters, et al:

We have stuck together since the late 1950’s, but the whole of this latest election process has made me realize that I want a divorce. I know we tolerated each other for many years for the sake of future generations, but sadly, this relationship has run its course. Our two ideological sides of America cannot and will not ever agree on what is right so let’s just end it on friendly terms. We can smile and chalk it up to irreconcilable differences and go our own way.

Here is a model separation agreement:

Our two groups can equitably divide up this country by landmass each taking a portion. That will be the difficult part, but I am sure our two sides can come to a friendly agreement. After that, it should be relatively easy! Our respective representatives can effortlessly divide other assets since both sides have such distinct and disparate tastes.

We don’t like redistributive taxes so you can keep them. You are welcome to the liberal judges and the ACLU. Since you hate guns and war, we’ll take our firearms, the cops, the NRA and the military. You can keep Oprah, Michael Moore and Rosie O’Donnell (You are, however, responsible for finding a bio-diesel vehicle big enough to move all three of them).

We’ll keep the capitalism, greedy corporations, pharmaceutical companies, Wal-Mart and Wall Street.. You can have your beloved homeboys, hippies and illegal aliens. We’ll keep the hot Alaskan hockey moms, greedy CEO’s and rednecks. We’ll keep the Bibles and give you NBC and Hollywood.

You can make nice with Iran and Palestine and we’ll retain the right to invade and hammer places that threaten us. You can have the peaceniks and war protesters.

When our allies or our way of life are under assault, we’ll help provide them security.

We’ll keep our Judeo-Christian values. You are welcome to Islam, Scientology, Humanism and Shirley McClain. You can also have the U.N.. But we will no longer be paying the bill.

We’ll keep the SUVs, pickup trucks and oversized luxury cars. You can take every Volkswagon you can find.

We’ll keep The Battle Hymn of the Republic and the National Anthem. I’m sure you’ll be happy to substitute Imagine, I’d Like to Teach the World to Sing, Kum Ba Ya or We Are the World.

We’ll practice trickle down economics and you can give trickle up poverty your best shot. Since it often so offends you, we’ll keep our history, our name and our flag.

Would you agree to this? If so, please pass it along to other like minded liberal and conservative patriots and if you do not agree, just hit delete. In the spirit of friendly parting, I’ll bet you which one of us will need whose help in 15 years.

Sincerely,

John J. Wall
Law Student and an American

P.S. Also, please take Barbara Streisand & Jane Fonda with you.

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Angry Black Man–hope you had a good time at the reunion and lots of good eats. Sorry ’bout having to be back in the salt mines. Got a few more days and then it’s back for me…

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The reunion was a blast. The ABD got to meet most of her family for the first time. It was cool just to watch her interact with everyone. I even got to see my DNA donor so he could actually see his grand daughter.

Doesn’t seem like I missed much here. Seems like the same people saying the same things.

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Jay, nobody is arguing that health care isn’t broke. But the obama, reid, pelosi and kenedy’s plan is far worse than what we have right now. Rather than shoving coverage down people’s throats, they should be finding ways to lower costs, close loop holes that allow pharmaceutical companies to charge humans 5 times more for medicine than the animal equivialnts and eliminate the U.S. monopoly on drugs and medical services. Cost is the issue, if medical treatment were cheap, “coverage” would not really be an issue.
Focus on cost not coverage.
Making things worse for the mere appearance of “doing something” about the price of healthcare is not going to help anybody. Obama has spent enough this year, he really needs to get a grip, because he is starting to lose his grip. He thinks he can control everything and he cannot…Will it be to late before he figures it out?

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AmVet

July 20th, 2009
3:06 pm

On what do you base that or are you joking?

One we forgot about:

“I want those who are questioning it to step up and explain why all of a sudden a Middle Eastern company is held to a different standard than a Great British company,” Bush said. “I am trying to conduct foreign policy now by saying to the people of the world, `We’ll treat you fairly.’”

http://www.americablog.com/2006/02/does-bush-even-know-that-al-qaeda-used.html

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Night Train

July 20th, 2009
4:17 pm

Please explain what happens if the rich tourist actualy takes the room.

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Night Train

July 20th, 2009
4:07 pm

Just as long as Barbara can continue to sing and act. Jane isn’t that bad of an actress either. And she was right about Vietnam, but picked a poor way of expressing her opinion. And anybody that could stay married to Captain Outrageous for more than a year can’t be all bad.

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TnG, I can answer your question to night train. I will wait for his/her answer first though. Waiting…..

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pat

can you provide a link for this claim?

“the democrats voted down a propostition that would force them to use the same healthcare coverage that they are trying to shove down our throats.”

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Before I get accused of plagiarism, I received the 4:17 post in an email, I am NOT the author.

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Night Train
July 20th, 2009 4:07 pm SAID: Just received this and thought I would share it.

Dear American liberals, leftists, social progressives, socialists, Marxists and Obama supporters, et al:

We have stuck together since the late 1950’s, but the whole of this latest election process has made me realize that I want a divorce. …………………

CHRIS SAYS: Stopped reading there. This “letter” kind of reminds me of how some of the old Southern states start talking about secession after the country elects its first Black President. Wonder if this “letter” writer misses the “good old days” when certain people knew their place.

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Kamchak 3:58 pm

I never compared Obumbler to an asian porn actress, that is an outright and scandalous lie.

I did compare his submissive demeanor around world leaders to the submissive demeanor of a lead in such a film. I stand by that keen analytical comparison.

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The GOP’s definition of competition is to subsidize big business so it can compete with a more efficient government program.

“Some Medicare Advantage plans have very low premiums, and some charge nothing beyond your Part B premium because of rich government subsidies to insurers. But you need to look carefully at the co-payments and limitations.”

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Insurance/InsureYourHealth/MedicareFactsYouNeedBefore65.aspx

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CHRIS–what you mean talking secession since the first black president? They’ve been talkin’ secession since Massachusetts introduced the concept in 1820…

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Census figures released Monday show about 63.6 percent of eligible voters, or 131.1 million people, cast ballots last November. Although that represented an increase of 5 million voters, the turnout was a decrease when taking into account population growth. In 2004, the voting rate was 63.8 percent.

Yeah, no kidding, all of the Republicans that stayed home cause they didn’t want to vote for a squish moderate.

Duuuhhhh.

20Palin12

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Shorter Swami Dave
“I got mine”

Odd and dull.

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I Report (-: You Whine )-:

July 20th, 2009
4:37 pm

Yeah, that’s why the moderates like Powell and Buckley endorsed Obama. I’m disappointed that someone with your acumen could be supporting Palin. There are plenty of articulate young conservative candidates out there to support. By 2012 she’ll be a footnote in history.

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Trust Me et al.–I missed it. What’s with Palin and the Samurai? Catch me up.

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“Please explain what happens if the rich tourist actualy takes the room”

Do you REALLY have to ask? He pays the 100 Euros to the inn keeper for the room, who pays it to the prostitute for her services, who pays it to the farmer for some meat, who pays it to the supplier for his feed for his animals, who pays it to an air company for a trip overseas, who pays it to…shall I go on?

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@@

I am glad to contribute, in some small way, to your learnings and voluminous knowledge. I am only sorry that the peasant Kamchak was in the middle and that our exchange could not have been far more personal and pleasurable for you.

Have you been working in the yard today? Does an aura from the light glow from prespiration highlight your features? Were it such that you were not a child bride still pleasured by marriage, Ol’ Wyld Byll would like to nuzzle and discuss the mysteries of the world with you.

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Mrs G, I’m glad someone understood what swami said.Still figureing…..

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Yes, since the advent of the teleprompter all presidents have used them. But as the liberal “Today” show pointed out a couple of weeks ago, Obama seems intent on never opening his mouth without it.

All presidents use them. Only one uses it ALL THE TIME.

Watching one of his speeches is like watching someone else watch a tennis match. It makes me seasick. left-right-left-right-left-right-left-right.

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josef nix

July 20th, 2009
4:35 pm
—-
Damnyankees!

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Wyld Byll…STFU!

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JAY–not on my account I hope. You know I’m a proponent of free speech even when it’s offensive and personally directed. Just putting in my two cents worth in case it means anything…

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Yeah Normal, you are going to get your mouth washed out with soap!

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Kamchak, honest question. What is with the yellow or red card you refer to?

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Guess who wrote this: “The idea that somehow you’re going to tax the ‘rich’ enough to pay for quality health care for every American who doesn’t have it, can’t afford it or stands to lose it, not to mention for all of the undocumented aliens who receive it for free now and presumably will continue to in Obama health land, is almost laughable. It’s one of those things candidates say in campaigns, ignoring the fact that it doesn’t add up. But in a bill that might pass? Add a 5 percent surtax on every small business in the country that makes $250,000 or more? This is going to create jobs? What am I missing?…

“I reassured her that the Democrats would never be that foolish…”

Give up? That conservative icon Susan Estrich.

At least some liberals are beginning to see the light.

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“While you are giving out the Bible lessons, make sure to include the places where we are told to abdicate to government via taxation and redistribution the role of benevolence and charity to which we were called.”

“Give to Ceaser what is Ceasers”
“Sell all your possesions and give your money to the poor”

But of course those aren’t meant to be taken literally, just the ones that forbid behavior YOU don’t like.

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Flying blind:

“This report makes it clear that the FDA has to get a handle on its own resource requirements and how to use resources more effectively,” Grassley said in a statement.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D99I9O3O0&show_article=1

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Scooter

July 20th, 2009
5:18 pm

But do you have any health insurance? If not, check out Health Savings Accounts:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_Savings_Accounts

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Swami Dave–Mrs. G does not have malicious intent. We disagree often and sometimes even vociferously, but she’s never been malicious with me…

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Scooter

In the game of futbol, or what we in the U.S. call soccer a referee will judge a harsh foul with yellow or red cards. 2 yellow cards in one game = 1 red card. If the foul is bad enough, the ref can issue a straight red card. Red card means you leave the game and sit out the next one.

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Defination of Democrats Universal Health Care-Another Govmnt program with the Upper & Middle footin the Bill. Oh to be Poor & not Responsible.

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Which of course proved my point, and at the same time points out the flaws in Christianity, Swami. But then again when offered a choice between a handout and a stick in the eye, who do you think the poor are going to choose? Argue that all you want, but we have the worst concentration of wealth at the top since the Great Depression, and that certainly hasn’t changed while we’re all complaining.

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SWAMI @ 5:55 ..thanks for savin me the trouble with that explanation.

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DoggoneGA

July 20th, 2009
4:45 pm

Thanks for that reply. That’s what I was looking for. Of course it would be better under the second scenario, no deception or borrowing required.

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I’ll state right now that I’ll be happy to participate in any health care plan that members of Congress are a part of. They exempt themselves from any of these programs they pass for us. Democrats or Republicans doesn’t matter, they consider themselves far superior to us lowly members of the Great Unwashed.

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Whoa, jay! You expelled only Byll when it was Kamchak who pushed the envelope — the one stuck in his/her mailbox?

Byll:

I must now look up the word “nuzzle” in the dictionary of sexual slang. Just to be on the safe side, I’ll tell you my skin is very sensitive — not thin, but sensitive.

Use your short vacation wisely.

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Hillbilly Deluxe

July 20th, 2009
8:05 pm

But they’ll tell you they’re paying for it, like they actually have a job. That said, I don’t know why anyone would want to serve. The travel requirement alone would eliminate me. It does pay pretty good tho. Linder would have to clean a lot of teeth to clear $180k.

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Also (in reference to Jay’s last post), according to USA Today/Gallup, at this point in his presidency Obama is the third least popular (10th out of 12) president since WWII.

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Ninja:

“Which of course proved my point…”
–If your “point” was how some people try to pick and choose those things which they dislike as “disallowed”, but those which they like as “allegorical”, that is sadly a human trait that goes back to the whole highlighting a “stick in another’s eye when you have a log in yours”. I attempt to be consistent.

“…and at the same time points out the flaws in Christianity”
–Personally, I find one of the most serious “flaws” is the perception -by some- that their congregations are museums filled with perfect people instead of hospitals with a mission to those around them. But then, that’s -my- opinion.

“…when offered a choice between a handout and a stick in the eye, who do you think the poor are going to choose?”
–If they decided to take the easy path, they’d accept the handout regardless of how or from where that handout came. Coupled with the class warfare / jealousy underpinning that is collectivism, it is an effective way to acquire power. However, if they made the decision to no longer be poor, they would not meet that goal by taking handouts. So in that manner, liberals do harm to those whom they purport to be “helping” by enabling them to continue in poor behaviors and lifestyle decisions that have little to no hope of building any real wealth or earning power for themselves.

“Argue that all you want, but we have the worst concentration of wealth at the top since the Great Depression, and that certainly hasn’t changed while we’re all complaining.”
–Nope and that concentration will continue at a greater pace as the current administration (and government leaders in general) continue directing the American economy toward collectivist / redistributionist policies. The policies only serve to diminish any motivation the beneficiaries might have had and engender more bitterness and anger toward the beneficiaries from the productive members of society from whom the confiscated wealth and earnings were stolen.

As for Jesus & you contention that he would associate money as an “abomination”, I would suggest you actually read some of what he said and did. On more than one occasion, he highlighted how his followers should develop and use their skills and resources. His followers were to use them (whether they be talents to perform, skills to be taught, or ability to earn and build wealth) to spread his message. There was nothing inherently good or bad about any of one’s skills or resources; the good or bad was always in how one uses them.

-SD

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Swami Dave

July 20th, 2009
11:29 pm

And what better way to use them than to help others less fortunate, lucky or gifted. Be it through public or private donations.

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All whiney libs should be executed. That is all.

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We have a tendency in America to argue for or against a concept based on our own personal philosophy or view of the world, what advances our personal interests, or the interests of our party, family, organization, or region. Perhaps viewing the issue from a management or systemic perspective might result in innovative approaches to the issue. The American national mindset, citizen philosophy, lack of citizen motivation to be proactively healthy, and governance model make the socialization of health care in America very problematic, particularly at this point in time. A country needs to know its limitations.

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Swami, thanks for another civil response. I would agree that Jesus told his followers to utilize their talents, but it was to work and live together and be a witniss, with no mention of monetary rewards. I think the disconnect starts when I put in historical context, because Jesus’ gospel was indeed radical and, frankly, contrary to the goals of any state. Lots of whackos ran around starting cults and nobody thought much of it in those days, but Christianity was different, not just in its perception of who or what God was. There was a reason Stephen and Paul were killed, and John was exiled. I guess I just have a hard time squaring your explanation of those passages with anything Jesus said or did in his time on earth.
As far as the whole collectivism argument though, you’re starting to lose me in the Reagan Myth. We’ve all heard that, yeah, teach a man to fish and you feed him for life, blah, blah. Well, the democrats give a guy a fish, but only if he votes for them. The conservatives throw dynamite in the lake, burn all the boats, then B%tch about the people who don’t have any fish. Sorry, but when your economic philosophy has less in common with Adam Smith than Karl Marx, something’s F’d up.

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