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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
269 comments Add your comment
TnGelding
July 20th, 2009
4:34 pm
The GOP’s definition of competition is to subsidize big business so it can compete with a more efficient government program.
“Some Medicare Advantage plans have very low premiums, and some charge nothing beyond your Part B premium because of rich government subsidies to insurers. But you need to look carefully at the co-payments and limitations.”
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Insurance/InsureYourHealth/MedicareFactsYouNeedBefore65.aspx
Curious Observer
July 20th, 2009
4:35 pm
Well, Pat, we wouldn’t have drug costs that are five times higher than the ones for animals or the ones sold in other countries if a Republican Congress hadn’t voted to make it illegal for the government to negotiate drug costs in creating Medicare Part D, the drug portion of the program. So long as Congressmen are going to take major contributions from pharmaceutical companies and their lobbyists, Congress is going to vote accordingly. And you can bet that the Congressmen opposing importation of the same drugs the rest of us pay through the nose for aren’t doing so out of any real concern for the safety of the products.
josef nix
July 20th, 2009
4:35 pm
CHRIS–what you mean talking secession since the first black president? They’ve been talkin’ secession since Massachusetts introduced the concept in 1820…
Swami Dave
July 20th, 2009
4:36 pm
MsG:
While you are giving out the Bible lessons, make sure to include the places where we are told to abdicate to government via taxation and redistribution the role of benevolence and charity to which we were called.
I’ll help you out….it doesn’t exist. That call is for individuals to invest their time and capital in addressing the problems of need and illness; not appointing bureaucrats to confiscate wealth and do it on our (or your) behalf. Frankly, the “religious left” defense of government as the vehicle is equally against the intent and command as is the “checkbook Christianity” (i.e. – “Hey, I gave my check this week – send someone else to get their hands dirty.”) mentality. Both are insidious infestations among people of faith in which they attempt to assuage guilt through (a) writing a check or (b) stealing from one people to give to another based on “need”.
There is a good bit about stealing though and I do not think you will find a “compassion exclusion” to that “Thou shalt not steal” thing. Either that, or I missed the “….except in cases where -you- know better where someone else’s property should be distributed than -they- do and are allowed to use the threat of force of the federal government under threat of injury or incarceration to confiscate and redirect it without equitable exchange of value” clause.
-SD
I Report (-: You Whine )-:
July 20th, 2009
4:37 pm
Census figures released Monday show about 63.6 percent of eligible voters, or 131.1 million people, cast ballots last November. Although that represented an increase of 5 million voters, the turnout was a decrease when taking into account population growth. In 2004, the voting rate was 63.8 percent.
Yeah, no kidding, all of the Republicans that stayed home cause they didn’t want to vote for a squish moderate.
Duuuhhhh.
20Palin12
Chris Salzmann
July 20th, 2009
4:41 pm
pat July 20th, 2009 4:22 pm SAID: Anybody care to go over the money the politicians you are entrusting your healthcare to, are making?
CHRIS SAYS: This country spends over $6,000 per man, woman and child on health care. That’s twice more than any the Europeans, Canadians, etc. So, again, we spend twice as much money than ANY other country on earth on health care right now. Logically, that would mean we have the best health care system? HARDLY! This country has 20,000 people dying annually from treatable sicknesses because of the lack of health insurance. Ever priced health insurance when you own a small business or are self employed. You have? Good! Now try finding health insurance when you have a pre-existing condition. Now tell me what you find?
Also, 50% of all personal bankruptcies in this country are related to health care related costs. Ever calculate how much that ends up costing the tax payer?
When you have some answers, do let us know.
Mrs. Godzilla
July 20th, 2009
4:41 pm
Shorter Swami Dave
“I got mine”
Odd and dull.
Trust me
July 20th, 2009
4:42 pm
All those Republicans also stayed home because they did not want to vote for Samurai Palin.
TnGelding
July 20th, 2009
4:42 pm
I Report (-: You Whine )-:
July 20th, 2009
4:37 pm
Yeah, that’s why the moderates like Powell and Buckley endorsed Obama. I’m disappointed that someone with your acumen could be supporting Palin. There are plenty of articulate young conservative candidates out there to support. By 2012 she’ll be a footnote in history.
Scooter
July 20th, 2009
4:43 pm
josef, my answer was the same as night trains or close anyway.????
josef nix
July 20th, 2009
4:44 pm
Trust Me et al.–I missed it. What’s with Palin and the Samurai? Catch me up.
TnGelding
July 20th, 2009
4:44 pm
Chris Salzmann
July 20th, 2009
4:41 pm
Those bankruptcy numbers should make everyone take notice.
DoggoneGA
July 20th, 2009
4:45 pm
“Please explain what happens if the rich tourist actualy takes the room”
Do you REALLY have to ask? He pays the 100 Euros to the inn keeper for the room, who pays it to the prostitute for her services, who pays it to the farmer for some meat, who pays it to the supplier for his feed for his animals, who pays it to an air company for a trip overseas, who pays it to…shall I go on?
josef nix
July 20th, 2009
4:46 pm
Scooter–Oy, gevalt! So was mine! Hmmm…
Wyld Byll Hyltnyr
July 20th, 2009
4:46 pm
@@
I am glad to contribute, in some small way, to your learnings and voluminous knowledge. I am only sorry that the peasant Kamchak was in the middle and that our exchange could not have been far more personal and pleasurable for you.
Have you been working in the yard today? Does an aura from the light glow from prespiration highlight your features? Were it such that you were not a child bride still pleasured by marriage, Ol’ Wyld Byll would like to nuzzle and discuss the mysteries of the world with you.
TnGelding
July 20th, 2009
4:49 pm
DoggoneGA
July 20th, 2009
4:45 pm
But they’ve already been paid. Or do they start the cycle again? Some people don’t seem to understand the way the money circulates. They must think it goes to the welfare recipient and disappears.
Scooter
July 20th, 2009
4:49 pm
Mrs G, I’m glad someone understood what swami said.Still figureing…..
josef nix
July 20th, 2009
4:51 pm
Wyld Byll Hyltnyr
Kamchak was born on Peachtree and is not a peasant, but I don’t think he’d be offended to be therewith classed.
@@-you respond, should you desire, I fear I might just splutter…
Class of '98
July 20th, 2009
4:52 pm
Yes, since the advent of the teleprompter all presidents have used them. But as the liberal “Today” show pointed out a couple of weeks ago, Obama seems intent on never opening his mouth without it.
All presidents use them. Only one uses it ALL THE TIME.
Watching one of his speeches is like watching someone else watch a tennis match. It makes me seasick. left-right-left-right-left-right-left-right.
getalife
July 20th, 2009
4:52 pm
lil byll,
Semper Fi will not appreciate you hitting on his wife.
Just warnin.
Normal
July 20th, 2009
4:55 pm
josef nix
July 20th, 2009
4:35 pm
—-
Damnyankees!
TnGelding
July 20th, 2009
4:55 pm
Class of ‘98
July 20th, 2009
4:52 pm
Then if you must have it on, just close your eyes and listen. You might actually hear something you could agree with. Like taking personal responsibility and getting government spending under control.
Normal
July 20th, 2009
4:56 pm
Wyld Byll…STFU!
Trust me
July 20th, 2009
4:59 pm
Wyld Byll at 4:54,
What are you talking about? Please elaborate so the rest of us bloggers can follow your conversation.
Jay
July 20th, 2009
4:59 pm
Byll, you’re gone until tomorrow at the earliest.
Bye.
Kamchak
July 20th, 2009
5:01 pm
josef
I’ve been called much worse by a better class of person. Just sayin’.
josef nix
July 20th, 2009
5:02 pm
JAY–not on my account I hope. You know I’m a proponent of free speech even when it’s offensive and personally directed. Just putting in my two cents worth in case it means anything…
Kamchak
July 20th, 2009
5:03 pm
Red card.
Scooter
July 20th, 2009
5:03 pm
Yeah Normal, you are going to get your mouth washed out with soap!
josef nix
July 20th, 2009
5:06 pm
Scooter:
“Yeah Normal, you are going to get your mouth washed out with soap!”
And go to bed with no cheesy grits!
Scooter
July 20th, 2009
5:07 pm
Kamchak, honest question. What is with the yellow or red card you refer to?
pat
July 20th, 2009
5:07 pm
Certainly Mrs. Godzilla here ya go…
http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=50756
http://www.lonelyconservative.com/2009/07/17/congress-obamacare-is-good-enough-for-thee-but-not-for-me/
http://community.fox2now.com/_Costs-to-increase-by-Government-Plan/blog/443518/96301.html?b=
“Democrats also voted down an amendment from Rep. Dean Heller (R-Nv.) that would require all Members of Congress to get insurance through the government-run plan. Apparently Democrat members of Congress do not like the government plan they’re trying to inflict on the rest of us. In a straight party line vote, Democrats voted against exempting themselves from the government-run plan by a vote of 21-18.”
There’s tons of links if you want to google….
TGT
July 20th, 2009
5:08 pm
Guess who wrote this: “The idea that somehow you’re going to tax the ‘rich’ enough to pay for quality health care for every American who doesn’t have it, can’t afford it or stands to lose it, not to mention for all of the undocumented aliens who receive it for free now and presumably will continue to in Obama health land, is almost laughable. It’s one of those things candidates say in campaigns, ignoring the fact that it doesn’t add up. But in a bill that might pass? Add a 5 percent surtax on every small business in the country that makes $250,000 or more? This is going to create jobs? What am I missing?…
“I went to my doctor this morning and suspect I had an experience that’s being repeated in doctor’s offices across the country. My doctor told me how worried she is about the plan. Actually, it was much stronger than ‘worried.’
“She wasn’t a big fan of HillaryCare, but from her reading, it was a carefully drafted and thought-out program compared to what’s being discussed now. She’s convinced that if the administration succeeds, the ripple effect will cost Democrats the House in 2010 and her patients’ their access to high quality, affordable care.
“I reassured her that the Democrats would never be that foolish…”
Give up? That conservative icon Susan Estrich.
At least some liberals are beginning to see the light.
TnGelding
July 20th, 2009
5:11 pm
TGT
July 20th, 2009
5:08 pm
She’s always pretty much called them as she sees them. Very refreshing.
Number1Ninja
July 20th, 2009
5:18 pm
“While you are giving out the Bible lessons, make sure to include the places where we are told to abdicate to government via taxation and redistribution the role of benevolence and charity to which we were called.”
“Give to Ceaser what is Ceasers”
“Sell all your possesions and give your money to the poor”
But of course those aren’t meant to be taken literally, just the ones that forbid behavior YOU don’t like.
Scooter
July 20th, 2009
5:18 pm
Y’ll have totally confused me as usual. All I know is I don’t have any health care and if you want to pay for me to have it,thanks in advance.
TnGelding
July 20th, 2009
5:19 pm
Flying blind:
“This report makes it clear that the FDA has to get a handle on its own resource requirements and how to use resources more effectively,” Grassley said in a statement.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D99I9O3O0&show_article=1
TnGelding
July 20th, 2009
5:23 pm
Testing.
TnGelding
July 20th, 2009
5:28 pm
Scooter
July 20th, 2009
5:18 pm
But do you have any health insurance? If not, check out Health Savings Accounts:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_Savings_Accounts
Swami Dave
July 20th, 2009
5:36 pm
Ms Godzilla:
“Shorter Swami Dave “I got mine” Odd and dull.”
Wow, I can’t see where you got -that- interpretation unless it is basically out of anger that it dropped a whammy on the philosophical underpinnings of your preconcieved notion.
Were I to assume an equally shallow justification for your ideas, it would be something akin to “Hey, they’re not stealing from me so why do I care – yeah, stick it to ‘em!” Personally, I would like to think that you are simply wrong instead of holding ideas based on some malicious intent.
-SD
josef nix
July 20th, 2009
5:38 pm
Swami Dave–Mrs. G does not have malicious intent. We disagree often and sometimes even vociferously, but she’s never been malicious with me…
Scooter
July 20th, 2009
5:42 pm
TnG, no health ins.either! Just running on luck right now! thanks for the link.
Kamchak
July 20th, 2009
5:48 pm
Scooter
In the game of futbol, or what we in the U.S. call soccer a referee will judge a harsh foul with yellow or red cards. 2 yellow cards in one game = 1 red card. If the foul is bad enough, the ref can issue a straight red card. Red card means you leave the game and sit out the next one.
Swami Dave
July 20th, 2009
5:55 pm
Number1Ninja:
“Give to Ceaser what is Ceasers”
-Ah, the Bible verse most oft-quoted by Liberals. That -might- apply if you could find where individuals were to “give to Caesar” so that Caesar could do what those individuals were already commanded to do – namely provide for those in need. Frankly, the “liberal” construct for this misusage would allow those already commanded to do it to simply abdicate that role by sending their money to the government (Caesar). Ergo, the comparison with what has become all-too-common within many groups of faith to simply drop a check in the plate and assume that their responsiblity is fulfilled. In the same manner, that “Here’s some money – let someone else do the dirty work” attitude is wrong whether you are abdicating your responsiblity to a organization, church, or government.
“Sell all your possesions and give your money to the poor”
-And this would be #2 on the oft-quote Liberal scripture list whereby even -IF- were in context, the command was for the “Rich Young Ruler” to give his money -TO- the poor; not give it to a bureaucracy to distribute (or redistribute) it for him.
So yet again, the reality is that for all the ballyhoo by the “religous left” attempting to defend their liberal construct under the guise of “Christian compassion”, there is no foundation since the command to show compassion was made to individuals with the expectation that they (not bureaucrats elected by, appointed by, hired by them) would engage and improve the lives of others.
Sorry, but no dice.
-SD
Halibut Maoir
July 20th, 2009
6:07 pm
Defination of Democrats Universal Health Care-Another Govmnt program with the Upper & Middle footin the Bill. Oh to be Poor & not Responsible.
Halibut Maoir
July 20th, 2009
6:20 pm
Fiscal Responsibity isn’t in any of our Elected Official’s vocabulary. So to hear Barry (Spend Me to the Moon) Obama speak of such is a direct slap to all Taxpayers!!!!!!!
Number1Ninja
July 20th, 2009
6:25 pm
Which of course proved my point, and at the same time points out the flaws in Christianity, Swami. But then again when offered a choice between a handout and a stick in the eye, who do you think the poor are going to choose? Argue that all you want, but we have the worst concentration of wealth at the top since the Great Depression, and that certainly hasn’t changed while we’re all complaining.
Number1Ninja
July 20th, 2009
6:37 pm
And Jesus most likely meant that money was an abomination and nobody goes it alone but that wouldn’t be American, would it?
electrician
July 20th, 2009
6:47 pm
SWAMI @ 5:55 ..thanks for savin me the trouble with that explanation.
electrician
July 20th, 2009
6:50 pm
number1ninja,,dont quote what you dont know.
TnGelding
July 20th, 2009
7:33 pm
DoggoneGA
July 20th, 2009
4:45 pm
Thanks for that reply. That’s what I was looking for. Of course it would be better under the second scenario, no deception or borrowing required.
TnGelding
July 20th, 2009
7:39 pm
Halibut Maoir
July 20th, 2009
6:07 pm
Thanks, but no thanks. The reality is too many in the lower-middle have been dropped from the income tax requirement so the rich could have their tax rate reduced. Hence record deficits and mountains of debt.
Hillbilly Deluxe
July 20th, 2009
8:05 pm
I’ll state right now that I’ll be happy to participate in any health care plan that members of Congress are a part of. They exempt themselves from any of these programs they pass for us. Democrats or Republicans doesn’t matter, they consider themselves far superior to us lowly members of the Great Unwashed.
electrician
July 20th, 2009
8:16 pm
hillbilly…I LIKE THAT!…must need a good washin myself
@@
July 20th, 2009
8:49 pm
Whoa, jay! You expelled only Byll when it was Kamchak who pushed the envelope — the one stuck in his/her mailbox?
Byll:
I must now look up the word “nuzzle” in the dictionary of sexual slang. Just to be on the safe side, I’ll tell you my skin is very sensitive — not thin, but sensitive.
Use your short vacation wisely.
Del
July 20th, 2009
9:23 pm
Who would put this garbage on their blog….only a A. H.
TnGelding
July 20th, 2009
9:36 pm
Hillbilly Deluxe
July 20th, 2009
8:05 pm
But they’ll tell you they’re paying for it, like they actually have a job. That said, I don’t know why anyone would want to serve. The travel requirement alone would eliminate me. It does pay pretty good tho. Linder would have to clean a lot of teeth to clear $180k.
TGT
July 20th, 2009
9:36 pm
Obama today: “Let’s fight our way through the politics of the moment, let’s pass reform by the end of this year.” (See Townhall.com)
Sounds like Obama realizes there is no way his healthcare fantasy is going to happen “in the next couple of months.”
Also from the Townhall article: “Later in the day, aides organized a conference call for Obama to speak with liberal bloggers and rally them behind the White House’s broad outline for overhaul.
“‘One of the things that I know the blogs are best at is debunking myths that can slip through a lot of the traditional media outlets and a lot of the conventional wisdom,’ he said, according to audio of the call posted on Web sites. ‘And that is why you are going to play such an important role in our success in the weeks to come.’”
Was Jay in on this? (I hope so.
)
TGT
July 20th, 2009
9:49 pm
Also (in reference to Jay’s last post), according to USA Today/Gallup, at this point in his presidency Obama is the third least popular (10th out of 12) president since WWII.
Kamchak
July 20th, 2009
9:59 pm
Go ahead Scarlett and blame me, but you obviously missed WB’s post at 4:54—the one that got him banned. BTW it wasn’t directed at me.
Swami Dave
July 20th, 2009
11:29 pm
Ninja:
“Which of course proved my point…”
–If your “point” was how some people try to pick and choose those things which they dislike as “disallowed”, but those which they like as “allegorical”, that is sadly a human trait that goes back to the whole highlighting a “stick in another’s eye when you have a log in yours”. I attempt to be consistent.
“…and at the same time points out the flaws in Christianity”
–Personally, I find one of the most serious “flaws” is the perception -by some- that their congregations are museums filled with perfect people instead of hospitals with a mission to those around them. But then, that’s -my- opinion.
“…when offered a choice between a handout and a stick in the eye, who do you think the poor are going to choose?”
–If they decided to take the easy path, they’d accept the handout regardless of how or from where that handout came. Coupled with the class warfare / jealousy underpinning that is collectivism, it is an effective way to acquire power. However, if they made the decision to no longer be poor, they would not meet that goal by taking handouts. So in that manner, liberals do harm to those whom they purport to be “helping” by enabling them to continue in poor behaviors and lifestyle decisions that have little to no hope of building any real wealth or earning power for themselves.
“Argue that all you want, but we have the worst concentration of wealth at the top since the Great Depression, and that certainly hasn’t changed while we’re all complaining.”
–Nope and that concentration will continue at a greater pace as the current administration (and government leaders in general) continue directing the American economy toward collectivist / redistributionist policies. The policies only serve to diminish any motivation the beneficiaries might have had and engender more bitterness and anger toward the beneficiaries from the productive members of society from whom the confiscated wealth and earnings were stolen.
As for Jesus & you contention that he would associate money as an “abomination”, I would suggest you actually read some of what he said and did. On more than one occasion, he highlighted how his followers should develop and use their skills and resources. His followers were to use them (whether they be talents to perform, skills to be taught, or ability to earn and build wealth) to spread his message. There was nothing inherently good or bad about any of one’s skills or resources; the good or bad was always in how one uses them.
-SD
TnGelding
July 20th, 2009
11:30 pm
TGT
July 20th, 2009
9:49 pm
Is it a popularity contest? Or an opportunity to address complex, contentious problems? He’s also getting blamed for the inept, disorganized Congress.
TnGelding
July 20th, 2009
11:35 pm
Swami Dave
July 20th, 2009
11:29 pm
And what better way to use them than to help others less fortunate, lucky or gifted. Be it through public or private donations.
@@
July 21st, 2009
7:15 am
Kamchak:
You’re right, I did miss it. Was it relative to the topic YOU were pursuing?
If so, Byll got what you wanted — temporarily banned.
As I recall, you said as much early on. “I want to see if jay….blah blah blah”
truther man
July 21st, 2009
8:34 am
All whiney libs should be executed. That is all.
Kamchak
July 21st, 2009
10:24 am
“Was it relative to the topic YOU were pursuing?”
Nope. You had preconceived ideas about what happened and automatically blamed me. I don’t want anybody banned (another preconceived idea of yours). I wanted him to man up and admit that he wrote a post that I found obscene. I never said “I want to see if jay…” I said “I just wanted to see if you (WB) had the nads to repeat it while Jay was paying attention.” WB did repeat the gist of his comment and asked me to leave him alone—which I did.
Reggie Greene / The Logistician
July 21st, 2009
2:05 pm
We have a tendency in America to argue for or against a concept based on our own personal philosophy or view of the world, what advances our personal interests, or the interests of our party, family, organization, or region. Perhaps viewing the issue from a management or systemic perspective might result in innovative approaches to the issue. The American national mindset, citizen philosophy, lack of citizen motivation to be proactively healthy, and governance model make the socialization of health care in America very problematic, particularly at this point in time. A country needs to know its limitations.
Shawny
July 21st, 2009
4:17 pm
Nice piece about the big 3 lies of Obamacare:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/07/21/perils_of_obamacare_the_three_big_lies_97550.html
Number1Ninja
July 21st, 2009
5:27 pm
Swami, thanks for another civil response. I would agree that Jesus told his followers to utilize their talents, but it was to work and live together and be a witniss, with no mention of monetary rewards. I think the disconnect starts when I put in historical context, because Jesus’ gospel was indeed radical and, frankly, contrary to the goals of any state. Lots of whackos ran around starting cults and nobody thought much of it in those days, but Christianity was different, not just in its perception of who or what God was. There was a reason Stephen and Paul were killed, and John was exiled. I guess I just have a hard time squaring your explanation of those passages with anything Jesus said or did in his time on earth.
As far as the whole collectivism argument though, you’re starting to lose me in the Reagan Myth. We’ve all heard that, yeah, teach a man to fish and you feed him for life, blah, blah. Well, the democrats give a guy a fish, but only if he votes for them. The conservatives throw dynamite in the lake, burn all the boats, then B%tch about the people who don’t have any fish. Sorry, but when your economic philosophy has less in common with Adam Smith than Karl Marx, something’s F’d up.