Water decision leaves metro Atlanta high and dry

Yesterday’s ruling by U.S. District Court Judge Paul Magnuson, denying metro Atlanta access to water stored at Lake Lanier, leaves the metro region up the creek.

Let me be more specific: Up a bone-dry creek.

The potential impact of the decision is disastrous. Magnuson ruled that with the exception of Buford and Gainesville, the metro region has no right to withdraw water from Lake Lanier, and no right to store water there against future drought.

The state was given three years to get try to get Congress to alter its authorized purposes for Buford Dam. If it is unsuccessful, Magnuson ruled, “the operation of Buford Dam will return to the ‘baseline’ operation of the mid-1970s. Thus, the required off-peak flow will be 600 cfs and only Gainesville and Buford will be allowed to withdraw water from the lake. The Court recognizes that this is a draconian result. It is, however, the only result that recognizes how far the operation of the Buford project has strayed from the original authorization.”

At first blush, it’s likely that Gwinnett County would face drastic and immediate water shortages if that occurred. Its whole sewer and water infrastructure, and the bonded indebtedness that financed it, is predicated on access to Lake Lanier. The impact on the rest of metro Atlanta would be less immediate but severe, particularly in times of drought.

Gov. Sonny Perdue has pledged to appeal Magnuson’s decision, noting that “his conclusions rely on decades-old assumptions about the construction of federal reservoirs and the role those reservoirs play in providing water supply for growing states such as Georgia.” But that’s just the point. Those conclusions are indeed decades old and have never been updated by Congress, as the law requires. With that statement, Perdue essentially conceded that Magnuson’s ruling was legally correct.

To be blunt, the state’s entire strategic approach on this issue has been wrong-headed. It has made no effort to try to correct the problem through Congress and little effort to build consensus with its neighboring states of Alabama and Florida. It has instead based its entire strategy on winning in the courtroom, an approach that never seemed likely to succeed. Magnuson’s ruling is a thorough legal repudiation of Georgia’s argument, and an appeal seems unlikely to alter the outcome.

We are now left in the position of trying to negotiate a settlement in Congress, and we probably need the cooperation of our neighbors in Alabama and Florida to do so.

And frankly, kneeling on the ground and begging for your opponent’s pity is not exactly a strong negotiating position.

293 comments Add your comment

TnGelding

July 18th, 2009
10:38 am

Well, with our strong congressional delegation I’m sure they’ll get something passed and throw in a couple of hundred F-22s to boot. If not, there’s always prayer. It worked last time.

Hillbilly Deluxe

July 18th, 2009
10:39 am

All the years of unrestricted development with no planning for the future are coming home to roost.

getalife

July 18th, 2009
10:45 am

Time for Sonny to play the pray card or make a new lake.

Trust me

July 18th, 2009
10:46 am

Clearly, there is only one acceptable solution — blow the dam. I mean, if God had intended for us to be damning our water sources, he would have given us teeth for sawing down trees and a big mud paddle for a tail. Then again, maybe Monsanto should get into the business of bottling water. They could just scoop it up out of those rivers and streams over in Anniston and package it and ship it right on over here to Georgia.

I Report (-: You Whine )-:

July 18th, 2009
10:55 am

OK, so I shot out his Saturday column.

Atlanta a loser in water wars! A federal judge on Friday ruled that Atlanta has no right to the waters of Lake Lanier, blah, blah-Urinal

Um, Atlanta doesn’t draw water from Lake Lanier, duh.

They get it from the Hooch.

And if a judge “shuts off the tap” as you so gleefully assume that he can, then he chokes off Florida and Bama at the same time.

Study up on it, learn something, y’all.

Am I getting good or what?

UPDATE #1- Let’s shut off the tap to Grady first, hehehehe.

How silly.

RW-(the original)

July 18th, 2009
11:05 am

So let’s play make believe and pretend that everybody but Buford and Gainesville gets cut off. Are they allowed to start selling water?

Trust me

July 18th, 2009
11:08 am

They aren’t talking about shutting off any taps. They’re talking about opening them up, as in storing water in Lanier per its original intent — for Gainesville and Buford. Gwinnett, that bastion of Republicanism, is the county that likely has the most to lose. They invested a small fortune in sewage infrastructure that incorporates Lake Lanier as a mission critical component. Clearly, there’s been a problem with communications and planning and logistics and compromise, etc., and this red state’s lack of leadership is at the heart of it all.

I Report (-: You Whine )-:

July 18th, 2009
11:09 am

I was gonna suggest that Sonny Purdue shut off water service to the courthouse where this little freak is hiding but research discovered that he is ruling from Minne freaking sota.

How many klowns do they have in that state?

TnGelding

July 18th, 2009
11:15 am

I Report (-: You Whine )-:

July 18th, 2009
11:15 am

Bust Me- Not true. Gwinnet built a state of the art sewage treatment facility with the full backing and support of environmentalists, spending three to four times more than they could have under normal Georgia EPD discharge permitting rules. This plant of theirs would have put water back into Lanier that is cleaner than what is already in the lake.

But of course, the environmental terrorists moved the goal posts, and like any good democrat, stabbed the tax payers in the back.

Trust me

July 18th, 2009
11:22 am

That ‘bottom line’ from the judge requiring some legislation at the fed level is really the coolest part of the entire story though. I wonder if those Georgia boys will try sitting around in Congress in the dark until they get the legislation that they demand. Perhaps Hannity and Limbaugh can provide 24/7 coverage while the lights are out and Hannity might even manage to piece together enough soundbites to blame it all on Obama. Then again, maybe the entire Georgia delegation should change parties so they’ll have the majority on their side. All the possibilities are far too humorous to list.

Trust me

July 18th, 2009
11:25 am

And those ‘environmentalists’ have what authority over that fed legislation defining the purpose of Lake Lanier?

Dusty

July 18th, 2009
11:26 am

Let me get this straight.on the water law for Buford Dam which stops water to fill Lake Lanier.

The federal judge made a judgment based on established law designated for Buford Dam.. (Not empathy!)

US Congress alone can change this law (True.)

Georgia tried for THREE years to get this law changed by Congress so GA would have extra water.. (Good move.)

Congress did not bother to change the law for more water to GA. (Democrats lead Congress, Bad move.)

Georgia has only one other step it can take. Ask the Fed judge to change his mind.(No can do! It’s the law.))

The next step? Water conservation or rationing such as NO private swimming pools, NO underground landscape or golf course water lines, NO non-conserve car washes, and limited growth of homebuilding in water shortage areas. ACT like there is a water shortage.

If you do not like any of these “restrictions’ then decide: DO YOU WANT WATER TO DRINK OR NOT? That is the question. And don’t blame the governor of Georgia who has bee asking Congress to move it and they did not. Blame your Congress led by Democrats. (Or maybe I should follow up with a rephrased old blame refrain:”Obama did it!”)

Trust me

July 18th, 2009
11:36 am

Yep, our Georgia delegation should take the Dusty approach. Sit around and pout and say no to compromise and blame your problems on someone else. Wait a minute, so what would they being doing differently.

Rose

July 18th, 2009
11:39 am

Are we going to get any sympathy on the hill when our governor has not even cooperated in accepting the bail out relief money to help Georgians and the rest of the economy? With the Republicans acting like the Palestinians against Israel, can we really get any cooperation? The time for cooperation is before a crisis. Our governor has doomed our state with his “suicide” Republican partisanship. When Santa Clause is passing out presents, you don’t act naughty on principle. Now that we need something, we may find out that Santa is a lot of men in congress who don’t like spoiled brats.

David Hooton

July 18th, 2009
11:41 am

@@

July 18th, 2009
11:41 am

There’s them that know how and them that don’t.

A dream thirty years in the making. My water bill minus sewer service is never more than $24.00 a month. Usually $16.00.

Dusty

July 18th, 2009
11:46 am

Trust me, dear Democrat,

I made some suggestions in my post. You did not.

And what were the compromises that no one would accept?

Do you live in Georgia or somewhere else as it seems it is MY problem alone, not yours.

Trust me

July 18th, 2009
11:47 am

Tell me it ain’t so. That Democratic Party stronghold, Clayton County, did one thing that @@ approves of. Remember, don’t flush those leftover prescriptions down the toilet and try to get the police to spread the word that flushing meth and other illegal drugs down the toilet is also a bad thing to do. They should just swallow it all.

Trust me

July 18th, 2009
11:54 am

What’s wrong Dusty. You sound upset by my statements regarding our Georgia delegation. They did just sit around in the dark demanding to have their way. And, they are still on this kick of non-compromise and doing nothing and other such nonsense. Feel free to read the documentation if you wish to learn more about the talks between the states and about Gwinnett’s involvement, etc. Google works just fine. Finally, I do live in Georgia so I suppose that does make it my problem, not just yours.

@@

July 18th, 2009
11:55 am

Trust me:

It was “good ol’ boy” democrats that sought vision 30 YEARS AGO. You know…some of them yellow dogs like Zell Miller. Our Water Authority team is a very exclusive lot, they are. They were set up as a separate entity protecting its operations from local politicians.

Like I said. Some know how it’s done and some don’t.

Bosch

July 18th, 2009
12:03 pm

Oh well, I’ve got water, so what’s the big deal? Sounds to me like you people didn’t work hard enough to deserve any water. More government intervention, tsk, tsk, tak. Can’t the free market work this out? Maybe like someone mentioned Gainesville can just sell the water to you folks down in Atlanta. Sounds reasonable to me.

Hehehehe. It’s fun being snarky on Saturdays.

deegee

July 18th, 2009
12:07 pm

Judge Magnuson correctly assigns responsibility in his decision, see below. BTW, the water war between Florida, Alabama and Georgia has been going on for 20 years. The politically impotent congressman whose district includes Lake Lanier is running for governor of Georgia. That would be (R) Nathan Deal.

“Too often,” Magnuson wrote, “state, local and even national government actors do not consider the long-term consequences of their decisions. Local governments allow unchecked growth because it increases tax revenue, but these same governments do not sufficiently plan for the resources such unchecked growth will require.”

Nor do individual citizens consider frequently enough their own water consumption, absent a crisis such as the recent drought, the judge said.

“The problems faced in the ACF basin will continue to be repeated throughout this country, as the population grows and more undeveloped land is developed,” Magnuson said. “Only by cooperating, planning and conserving can we avoid the situations that gave rise to this litigation.”

Dusty

July 18th, 2009
12:08 pm

@@

That was a fine article you posted. Glad to hear that Clayton County has done so well with water (if not education). If we could leave some of these decisions to “water professionals” we might be in better shape. I hope all Georga counties are paying attention and those in Alabama and Florida also.

Sounds like Democrats had some good ideas about 30 years ago when people like Zell had power. WONDER WHAT HAPPENED?

Dusty

July 18th, 2009
12:17 pm

Dear Bosch,

Glad to see you here all perky this morning. I hope your stomach is OK now (if not your head!).

To make you feel even better, the Braves beat the Mets last night 11-0 before an enthusiastic crowd of fifty thousand people. Forget soccer. It’s the BRAVES!!

Jay

July 18th, 2009
12:17 pm

Dusty, the problem with your scenario is that Ga’s congressional delegation has NOT tried to address the issue through legislation.

They have proposed no bills, built no coalitions — as far as I know, they have done NOTHING to try to fix the problem other than try to pressure federal bureaucrats to rule in Georgia’s favor. While that’s valuable as far as it goes, it really isn’t a good strategy when the problem is the basic law itself.

Rose

July 18th, 2009
12:19 pm

Wonder What Happened? The same thing that happened with Bush. There was recent evidence that Bush knew the economy was headed for a bust way back in 2001. Republicans had complete control and did nothing to prevent it except pass more tax relief for the rich. The way I found out about it was an email bragging that Bush knew back then and that he wasn’t as dumb as everyone was saying he was. Go figure. Not everyone was working on the “unnecessary war” that was making the industrialists billionaires, or were they?

Bernie Madoff

July 18th, 2009
12:26 pm

I got a lake I could sell you.

Bear Stearns

July 18th, 2009
12:44 pm

I got lake derivatives to sell you.

@@

July 18th, 2009
12:45 pm

So jay….how’s your site looking from where you’re viewing it….operationally speaking, that is?

Kinda sux, don’tcha think?

Now you see it! Now you don’t! Then some will but others won’t.

Dusty

July 18th, 2009
12:45 pm

Well, Jay Bookman, I don’t claim to be an expert on water liegislation. Could it be that our Georgia delegation felt that it would be a waste of time to set up a law changing bill proposal brought forth by Georgians? That their best chance was to get a beaurocrat to read the law in a different way? Did Florida and Alabama representatives design any water bills for an unresponsive Democratic led Congress? I doubt it.

You see things only through a Democratic lens. I see things through a Republican lens. I guess we both try to be honest. I cringe everytime I read about the recent output of Congress which seems to be blind, not only to debt but with no conception of their citizens’ common sense . That, with a spendthrift president who neither worries about debt nor water, makes me even more conservative.

DoggoneGA

July 18th, 2009
12:51 pm

“That their best chance was to get a beaurocrat to read the law in a different way? ”

This sounds a LOT like asking a judge to LEGISLATE from the bench. I thought the conned were against that. Or is it a case of “it’s OK if you’re a Republican”?

Kamchak

July 18th, 2009
12:56 pm

Water problems and traffic problems come from the same source—no regional planning for thirty years. Buy the cheapest land north of I-285. Build here, build now, take the profits and run.

Bosch

July 18th, 2009
12:59 pm

deegee,

You hit the nail on the head. If you don’t have the resources to build, you don’t build. Unfortunately the GOP doesn’t understand this – it’s all about the $$$. Who cares if the people living in the multi-billion subdivision – money pocketed by the developers – don’t have water to drink. I guess they should have done their homework ahead of time.

People throughout the ages have known this. Where are the oldest towns in this country and world? Where is Baghdad where many think civilization began? Near the Tigris and Euphrates. They are near the water. Duh.

During the last election, my one question to any local person running was – What are your plans for development in relation to our water? If they couldn’t answer (which none but two could [guess which party the ones that couldn't answer were]), I told them I was sorry, they would not get my vote.

Dusty,

Thanks! Last week was weird – been contemplating my mortality a lot the past couple of days, and getting my will updated just in case. We’ll see how things turn out in the next few weeks after more tests. Hopefully I’m doing this for the far future. I’m just super duper glad I’ve got good insurance. Funny thing, I told my doctor Thursday, can’t we do these tests sooner? He said, well, you know it’s hard to get a specialist to do things immediately because they are booked up. So much for having to wait under socialized medicine huh?

Joey

July 18th, 2009
12:59 pm

What those evil Repulicans in Gwinnett have done to Lanier’s water:
Gwinnett returns (pumps) 40mgpd back to Lanier. Gwinnett is the only user downstream of the Buford Dam that returns any water to Lanier. As a reward for that effort Zell Miller’s North Georgia Water Authority (not the exact name) decided that Gwinnett would be the only user downstream of the Dam that would not be allowed to discharge any treated water into the Chattahoochee.

We will soon be bombarded with demands that the metro area must conserve water. I agree. These demands to conserve will be about reducing the amount of water we use and only that. Expect every environmental group to push this issue. However, reducing consumption is only one place on the water cycle where conservation measure must be increased.

When ever rains come most of the runoff leaves the metro area unchecked. Conservation begins, or should begin, when and where the rain falls. We need more dams and reservoirs all over the metro area. Look for the environmental groups, the EPA and likely the AJC Editorial Board to oppose any new dam.

josef nix

July 18th, 2009
1:00 pm

Hillbilly Deluxe–

“All the years of unrestricted development with no planning for the future are coming home to roost.”

Hillbilly has hit the proverbial nail on its proverbial head. Though not a native Atlantan, I have lived here longer than more than half the people on the Darlington sign. I have watched for decades as the developers put up development after development spreading out like kudzu in all directions gobbling up any and everything idigenous that got in its way, each and every development yet another sign that “the Phoenix city” was the Mecca and role model for the “New and Improved South.” I learned to give directions from “what used to be there.” I watched as our ever so “proud” African American “leadership” came in and destroyed the Piney Grove settlement, the oldest extant Freedman’s settlement in Atlanta, to put in that ecological disaster, the Georgia-400-I-85 interchange, so that the white boys of the “elite” northern suburbs could more easily come into town to do their “bidness.” I’ve watched as old, established neighborhoods are razed and high rises put up. I’ve watched as “international” Atlanta bulldozed the city’s oldest international neighborhood, its inhabitants sent packing in scenes reminiscent of Kossovo–and that’s no hyperbole. Instead of confronting the problems of infrastructure unable to sustain the growth, the cheerleaders just kept on with their rah-rah. And now, like some malicious hydra, the problems, caused by, and pointed out to, “Atlanta” have reached out to not only that suburban blight from but has spread its tentacles to two neighboring states. Now comes a pack of latter-day Cassandras with their Pittypat cries of “I just cain’t cope” and “Yankees in Georgia, however did they get in.”

We invited them. We gave them whatever they wanted, just come on down and spend your greenbacks. Well, progress, ain’t it grand?

Jay

July 18th, 2009
1:08 pm

Actually, Dusty, the delegations of both Alabama and Florida DID try to use Congress to their advantage. Sen. Shelby of Alabama tried repeatedly to insert legislation to benefit his state at Georgia’s expense, some of which passed, and Florida congressmen pushed hard to finance a scientific study of the watershed, a step that Georgia’s delegation supported only belatedly and that was passed into law by a Democratic Congress.

But what’s really interesting is your song and dance on this issue. Initially, you claimed that Ga.’s delegation had tried hard to work through Congress but had been stymied by Democrats. You wrote:

“Georgia tried for THREE years to get this law changed by Congress so GA would have extra water.. (Good move.)

Congress did not bother to change the law for more water to GA. (Democrats lead Congress, Bad move.)”

Clearly, you made that claim with no knowledge whatsoever. You knew who you wanted to cast as the villain — the Democrats — so you invented a set of facts that would allow you to confirm your conclusion.

Now, challenged on that invention, you turn it around. Suddenly, the Ga. delegation did NOTHING to try to act through Congress, but in your world that too is now the fault of the Democrats.

Yes, we all see things through our own perspectives. But a basic respect for the facts would be nice, don’t you think?

Brandon

July 18th, 2009
1:18 pm

Come on fellas! I don’t have too much knowledge of this water and sewage subject but I am reading this comments in hopes of being “enlightened” All I see is a bunch of finger pointing and red vs blue. We are all people before any political affiliations and we all require water. Seriously, what are our options, and what can I expect to see in our near future?

david wayne osedach

July 18th, 2009
1:19 pm

In some parts of this country you can only water your lawn every other week. Picture that coming to Atlanta!

Joey

July 18th, 2009
1:20 pm

Even though I began my 12:59 with a defense of Gwinnett’s Republicans government, that was in response to an earlier attack on Gwinnett’s Republicans by another poster.

Truth is that Lanier’s water is not a political party issue. All of metro Atlanta will be impacted.

josef nix

July 18th, 2009
1:25 pm

JAY–weren’t you in Seattle when it faced a similar problem? Any comparisons and any lessons to be drawn from their experience?

Normal

July 18th, 2009
1:27 pm

Any comparisons and any lessons to be drawn from their experience?
————–
YEAH, Don’t drink the water!!! Water bad, wine good.

josef nix

July 18th, 2009
1:29 pm

Hey Normal…you know what W.C. Fields said, “Drink water? Stuff’s nasty. Fish f in it!”

@@

July 18th, 2009
1:29 pm

Seriously, what are our options, and what can I expect to see in our near future?

Xeriscaping?

josef nix

July 18th, 2009
1:32 pm

@@–seriously? Well, Pesky Savage Unmentionable says that not to worry, M-ther Nat-re’ll take care of things.

Normal

July 18th, 2009
1:34 pm

JOSEF, Yeah, I was trying to remember that quote…but oldtimers forget.

Normal

July 18th, 2009
1:34 pm

Well, back out chasing turtles…

Bosch

July 18th, 2009
1:34 pm

Sad thing is, most people don’t see water issues as a problem because they can turn on their faucets and it still comes out. Same with electricity and other energy commodities

“My electricity still works and I can afford it, same with gas!” So no problem, right?

Trust me

July 18th, 2009
1:36 pm

I see things through a Republican lens.

You need some lense cleaner, Dusty.

Trust me

July 18th, 2009
1:43 pm

Joey,

Even though I began my 12:59 with a defense of Gwinnett’s Republicans government, that was in response to an earlier attack on Gwinnett’s Republicans by another poster…

Which earlier attack would you be referring to?

Trust me

July 18th, 2009
1:46 pm

@@,

Did you say that Zell is a Democrat. The same one that just plain fell in love with Bush and the Republican party a few years back. I do understand the dilemma though. One day they’re Democrats, the next day they’re Republicans. It sure makes it hard to pick sides. Oh, how I yearn for the days of football in high school PE class. It was easy to tell the two teams apart — shirts and skins.

josef nix

July 18th, 2009
1:49 pm

Well, Bosch, tried to answer you but the Evil Moderator is back. No idea why, but since there’s nothing in it to get bent out of shape about one way or the other…it’s getting rather tiresome…

Kamchak

July 18th, 2009
1:53 pm

“One day they’re Democrats, the next day they’re Republicans.

Yeah, Andy Young presciently called him Zigzag Zell.

I Report (-: You Whine )-:

July 18th, 2009
1:55 pm

Clearly, you made that claim with no knowledge whatsoever. You knew who you wanted to cast as the villain — the Democrats — so you invented a set of facts that would allow you to confirm your conclusion.

Heh, the pot calling the kettle black.

Initial authorization for construction of Buford Dam and Lake Lanier was contained in section 2 of the Rivers and Harbors Act of 1945, 59 Statutes at Large 17. The two purposes for which Buford Dam (Lake Lanier) was authorized were flood control and ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~hydroelectric~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ generation.

Anybody care to tell me how much water is consumed and not returned to the river basin when being used to generate hydroelectric power?

http://lakes.southernco.com/

Doesn’t seem to be much of an issue right now, does it?

Buford generates, West Point generates, etc. etc.

True, given another drought, a situation could develop where Lanier would be unable to help refill West Point or any other downstream facility, but we are talking catastrophic drought conditions, remember when it rained every day in Middle Ga during the 2007 drought?

All of their lakes remained full.

So any other claim to the water is secondary.

The Corps correctly “re defined” their operation of Buford Dam as such to provide the minimum downstream requirements and to maximize the levels in Lake Lanier, as a buffer to any further droughts, WHICH IS TO THE ADVANTAGE OF EVERYONE.

It has absolutely nothing to do with Conservation, nothing at all.

If we were to fill Lanier to the brim, which is the only feasible objective of the heretics that are suing us, would it not hamper it’s ability to control flooding, which is it’s primary purpose?

Hmmmm?

OK, so now, in defense of Dusty, who is the one who is spinning this around in the first place?

Penning a gloom and doom hysterical column about choking off Atlanta on the vine when it has absolutely nothing to do with the subject?

I rule.

josef nix

July 18th, 2009
1:55 pm

Kamchak–yeah, and Andy Young’s the one who tore down Piney Grove. Jus’ sayin’ :-)

I Report (-: You Whine )-:

July 18th, 2009
1:56 pm

Ooops, italicize that first paragraph^^.

Wes

July 18th, 2009
2:01 pm

Do any of the gubernatorial candidates have any plans for the water mess? My faith in our congressional delegation is slim at best.

j$

July 18th, 2009
2:03 pm

This time last year, the ajc had already ginned up the chicken littles saying it would be a dry lake bed in a matter of days.

Glad Sonny saved the day!

Pray for rain!

Daedalus

July 18th, 2009
2:06 pm

Hey Jay — don’t waste keystrokes on Dusty. He’s like most of the Georgia GOP — oppose paying for public infrastructure and put partisanship first. When things go wrong — blame liberals or activist judges. Our GOP Congressional delegation is too busy calling Obama a socialist, secret muslim and a communist to reach across the aisle. And Governor Curly? That’s a joke.

Georgia governor and legislators — whether Republicans or Yellow Dog Democrats — have never seen their role to improve the infrastructure of this state except to build roads for their political contributors. Only the occasional foresighted local politicians have that vision — and there are fewer and fewer of them. (And yes, Shirley isn’t one of them.)

What I’d like to know is whether Tom Watson can hang on to win the British Open?

Dusty

July 18th, 2009
2:06 pm

Dear Jay Bookman,

Evidently you have forgotten what you wrote in your own article.

My words about a THREE YEAR TRY came from YOUR quote of Judge Magnuson in which you wrote”The state[Georgia] was given three years to alter its authorized purpose for Buford Dam. It failed.”

If you fail an effort you have tried. The delegation was taking its last efforts to a judge.. The judge said it was for three years. So I was not guessing. I read your very own quote of Judge Magnuson. Georgia delegation TRIED for THREE years and failed.

Then in my reply to YOUR REPLY in which you said that Georgia delegates introduced no water bills, I suggested a reason why they may not have even tried. I said they knew they did not have a chance of passing anything from Georgia in a Congress led by Democrats.

Are you also trying to tell me that Congress is not led by a majority of Democrats? Is Pelosi a Dem? How about Reid? But you would not say it was a Democrat-led Congress? That Democrats are not a majority? That the president is not a Democrat?

I think there are a few facts you haven’t learned. One thing I have learned. Never rely on anything you write in your “introductions”. as facts. And if facts are there, you forget them.

@@

July 18th, 2009
2:06 pm

josef:

I’m a flatlander obscured by bark and leave. I like arid.

My husband, native born and bred has been saturating the grass, leaving the garden neglected. On the rare occasion I go out to water the garden, he asks “Why?” My answer to him is….”Because, I can’t recall the last time I saw you grazing on the lawn but if you’d like to start, I’ll stop.”

josef nix

July 18th, 2009
2:14 pm

@@–good one! You like arid, eh? Down on the corner of the lot is a spot that gets full sunshine and that’s where I put in the cactus garden. It’s doing as well this year as last! I’m half swamp rat, so I’ve got to have my “lush.”

@@

July 18th, 2009
2:15 pm

Trust me:

Same Zell. Just recently he spoke out about Republicans’ wasteful spending. It’s principle over party with Zell. The thing that’s aggravating about today’s democrat is the way they’ll stand on principle only up to and until the “party” needs their vote — then they’ll cave. I’m talking the new blue dog which is yesterday’s yellow dog.

Back outside. I can’t believe it’s this cool in July.

RW-(the original)

July 18th, 2009
2:19 pm

WOW! I’d have never thought I’d see a blog writer stomping his feet and scolding a contributor when that contributor was almost surely influenced by the writers own poor wording. I wasn’t sure it related to the ruling on my first read either.

The state was given three years to get try to get Congress to alter its authorized purposes for Buford Dam.

We’ve got the “was given” and the very odd “to get try to get” in there.

Trust me

July 18th, 2009
2:20 pm

A few words of ‘wisdom’ from Sonny: Our country has changed substantially since the 1940s, when many of these reservoirs were constructed, and I will use this opportunity not only to appeal the judge’s decision but, most importantly, to urge Congress to address the realities of modern reservoir usage. The judge’s ruling allows a three-year window for either Congressional action or an agreement by the states and we will work diligently with Georgia’s delegation and members of Congress to re-establish the proper use of federal reservoirs throughout the country.”

I may be reading his words incorrectly here, but it is almost as though this ‘conservative’ is speaking with a ‘progressive’ tongue when he suggests that the laws have not kept up with the times. Then again, it is the truth. In fact, it is a common problem with laws. They get outdated. If they didn’t, then we clearly would have no further need for legislators for every law ever needed would have long ago been written oh so perfectly. Unfortunately for us, we have a different reason for not needing this current batch of Georgia legislators — they just are not up to the task of, well, legislating.

josef nix

July 18th, 2009
2:25 pm

RW-(the original)

“We’ve got the “was given” and the very odd “to get try to get” in there.”

Altogether interesting, isn’t it? Had an editor once who’d rip you up one side and down the other for just such. He was a Walter Cronkite type. Scrupulous in attention to any subtle detail which might be construed as personal opinion.

RIP Mr. Cronkite.

Dusty

July 18th, 2009
2:27 pm

Dear Bosch,

Actually, if you did not get a speicalist’s appointment quickly, they don’t believe you are in an emergency condition. That is the good news. If doctors are worried that something may turn up later, that’s the bad news. Anyway, that’s MY DIAGNOSIS. I will give you a full bill of health BUTTTT no cheesy shrimp !

See you and the blog “folks” here later. What a tempest in a teapot today! It’s those Dems I tell ya!! :roll:

josef nix

July 18th, 2009
2:30 pm

DUSTY–”It’s those Dems, I tell ya!”

Them and the ragpickers. :-)

Kamchak

July 18th, 2009
2:34 pm

josef

I worked for land surveyors during the 70’s and 80’s. and did a lot of prelim for the Ga.400 extension. I was instructed by my employers to lie whenever we were confronted by residents.

Angry resident: “What are you surveying for?”

Me: “We are surveying for the north/south Marta line sir/ma’am.”

Angry resident: Good, because we STOPPED Ga.400!”

Me: “Yes sir/ma’am. Like I said, we are surveying for MARTA.”

After a while the lie became less plausible because the traffic at the end of Ga.400 at I-285 became so bad, it was painfully obvious that something had to be done. The same situation is the east-to-west journey from I-85 to I-75 north of the Hooch–to get there a trip through downtown Cumming is in order. The outer perimeter is gonna happen–it’s merely a matter of time.

BTW Tom Moreland was the most powerful man in Ga. when Piney Grove was torn down. Just sayin’ :wink:

Jay

July 18th, 2009
2:39 pm

Dusty, really.

Your only defense is to blatantly misquote me?

You claim I wrote: “”The state[Georgia] was given three years to alter its authorized purpose for Buford Dam. It failed.””

I did not write that. Do you have some bizarre problem with your cut-and-paste, something that automatically causes it to distort and mangle? You then base your entire response on that lie.

The evidence is there for all who care to see it.

Oh, and I too think it would be totally cool to see Watson win the Open. Amazing.

Trust me

July 18th, 2009
2:42 pm

Jay,

RW caught you on a valid issue though and those extra words in there just totally ruined the context for me :smile:

josef nix

July 18th, 2009
2:43 pm

KAMCHAK–you and I may have crossed paths at the time, but probably not, since whenever I got your “instructed” answer, my retort was “well, you lyin’ bastid, you can die and fry in h*ll right along with Tom Moreland and Andy Young!” :-) As you know, that interchange could have been moved less than 1/4 a mile either direction and that absolutely wonderful and magic piece of land and that community left as a monument to the hopes and dreams of those who founded it. I curse Moreland as much as Andy, but Andy sold his soul while presenting himself as some paragon of the fullfillment of the residents’ struggle.

Dusty

July 18th, 2009
2:48 pm

Naww, jjosef,

Not “ragpickers”. It’s the “ragheads” And if worse comes to worse, how about “Bush did it!” EEIIIIyyy

Excuse me. I have company coming. Must go powder my nose. See ya later…

Trust me

July 18th, 2009
2:50 pm

Georgia polly ticks. It’s all about the blood suckers. Just remember to check for them often and pick ‘em off and squish ‘em so they can’t hop on some other unsuspecting passers by and stealthily leech off of them once that initial dose of powerful anesthetic has been administered. Family values. My @ss!

Kamchak

July 18th, 2009
2:52 pm

josef

I heard stories from other crews where confrontations came to near fisticuffs That was you?

josef nix

July 18th, 2009
2:54 pm

KAMCHAK–on Piney Grove…before it was razed, the Unmentionable and I photographed it in its entirety under the guidance of a Polish colleague who had worked with the reconstruction of the Stary Miasto in Warsaw, working with photographs of what had been there before the war. He was here as a guest scholar at Georgia Tech.

Jay

July 18th, 2009
2:55 pm

That sentence most definitely contained an extra word, Trust. My bad on that one.

However, that extra “get” was not the source of Dusty’s problem, and the post did not contain the words Dusty attempted to put in my mouth.

getalife

July 18th, 2009
2:55 pm

“Do you have some bizarre problem with your cut-and-paste, something that automatically causes it to distort and mangle?”

She’s a con Jay.

We have been over this.

Try getting her to admit she is wrong.

Good luck with that.

Dusty

July 18th, 2009
2:57 pm

Jay Bookman, what is your problem?

YOU WROTE & QUOTED the judge. That is what you WROTE. I did not even know what the judge wrote uintil you gave us his quotations. My info came from your introduction. Also, I do not “cut’n'paste”.

I can’t sit here and direct you to your own writing. I have company coming. Go settle it with your own editors. You don’t even know what you yourself have written. There is nothing I can do about that.

josef nix

July 18th, 2009
2:58 pm

Kamchak:
“I heard stories from other crews where confrontations came to near fisticuffs That was you?”

Among others! Guilty as charged. “Bring it on. Bubba! Brought some and ready for yours. You get the first punch. Take it!” Course being mostly white and seeing some glaring black faces from the porches, they thought better of it.” The minister of the church, though, invited me and my little one to services, so I had G-d on my side! :-)

j$

July 18th, 2009
3:00 pm

“Interior Secretary Ken Salazar says the federal government won’t try to broker a solution to a bitter three-state battle over water rights, but he urged Georgia, Alabama and Florida to seek a compromise outside of the courtroom.

Shortly after taking a helicopter tour of north Georgia’s reservoirs with Gov. Sonny Perdue, Salazar said the three states have got to come together to figure out a way forward with a compact agreement.”

And if they can’t reach an agreement?

Something tells me there won’t be a “world’s largest coc-(k)-tail party” before this one. (apparently you can’t use the word ####tail here?)

josef nix

July 18th, 2009
3:02 pm

DUSTY–don’t you know, Bush was the serpent in the Garden of Eden!

josef nix

July 18th, 2009
3:06 pm

J$–” (apparently you can’t use the word ####tail here?)”

Ain’t it a trip? Can’t call a kitty cat a pu**y, can’t call myself a fa**ot…can’t quote passages from Shakespeare, can’t quote certain passages from the Bible…but, boy, howdy! We can descend to the most vulgar name calling…go figure…

Kamchak

July 18th, 2009
3:08 pm

josef

Good for you! I have some lingering guilt for my part when I did the prelim work for developers. I am glad someone was there to chronicle the city’s past. May I assume copies of the photos are with The Historical Society?

josef nix

July 18th, 2009
3:15 pm

No, no copies with the Atlanta Historical Society. They rejected them, funding issues doncha know. There are copies with the Architectural Reconstruction people at Warsaw University, though and ever so often I take out ours and reminisce about the most peaceful times of my life sitting on the porch with Miz Louise, sipping oversweetened ice tea, munching on teacakes as good as Granny’s, watching Little Bit and my host’s great-grandbabies rolling in the dirt and listening to stories of temps perdu, they, too, gone with the wind that swept through Georgia…I’m glad to know you have some lingering guilt…so do I for not taking issue earlier and more forcefully…

j$

July 18th, 2009
3:17 pm

At least the original is still under moderation… Oh, such difficult decisions this poor moderater must deal with! And it’s not even Sunday!

Kamchak

July 18th, 2009
3:25 pm

josef

You did all you could. The best lawyers in Ga. couldn’t stop Ga.400. My involvement went no further south than Dunwoody.

I Report (-: You Whine )-:

July 18th, 2009
3:35 pm

Oh poor little obozo whines and moans-

Obama to Congress: Don’t squander chance to reform health care…

bwa

Misses Klinton, Part Duh.

josef nix

July 18th, 2009
3:35 pm

KAMCHAK–Miz Louise told me stories about the other Freedmen’s communities which had disappeared. She said the reason that Piney Grove had lasted was that it was built around “the church.” She told me about the community which was at where Cheshire Bridge crosses the creek between La Vista and Piedmont. There are still ruins there and the developers have not yet moved into it. The reason the community failed, she said, was because it was a redlight district. Well, take a look at what’s right up the hill today! Appears that Atlanta has preserved it’s tradition, all right, one big wh-rehouse!

I Report (-: You Whine )-:

July 18th, 2009
3:41 pm

Of all the statistics pouring into the White House every day, top economic adviser Larry Summers highlighted one Friday to make his case that the economic free-fall has ended.

The number of people searching for the term “economic depression” on Google is down to normal levels, Summers said.

Still wondering why we are in a total economic collapse?

booger

July 18th, 2009
3:45 pm

The solution is quite simple. Remind Congress that Atlanta is over 50% african american, and some are seeing this as a racist act. They will stumble all over themselves passing a quick solution.

Kamchak

July 18th, 2009
3:48 pm

josef

Aside from surveys for loans, I didn’t do too much inside I-285. I do remember being on Monroe at 7:00 am on a Sat. morning 300 yds. from The Cove. Obnoxious drunks closing a bar is an old story, but I have never been objectified before. Creepy….

josef nix

July 18th, 2009
3:50 pm

booger–Atlanta may be over 50% African American, but that’s inside the perimeter. Outside is white as white can be and the “leadership” of Atlanta’s African American majority is in the pockets of the big boys when it comes to such as this. Jus’ an observation on past experience. :-)

TnGelding

July 18th, 2009
3:52 pm

I Report (-: You Whine )-:

July 18th, 2009
3:41 pm

Total? The folks that hang out here seem to be doing ok. Bad week on Wall Street, eh?

booger

July 18th, 2009
3:55 pm

joseph,

I know that and you know that, but officially Atlanta, which is mentioned in the ruling, is over 50% black. Also just a note. Outside 285 does include Dekalb and Clayton…Not exactly lilly white, but I still see your point.

josef nix

July 18th, 2009
3:55 pm

Kamchak–”…I’ve never been so objectified,,,” Gave you a deeper understanding of what women were saying, though…for the record, that is a behavior I have never approved of, having been a “victim” of it myself…an interesting topic for future discussion…

Trust me

July 18th, 2009
3:57 pm

I like Ga 400. I wish they would extend it and Marta at least to Dahlonega, preferably farther, and then add branches to it. About a half mile from my doorstep should do nicely. I need the exercise. But, I would like a nice sidewalk so I don’t have to walk on the highway and put my life in their hands. Shudder.

josef nix

July 18th, 2009
3:58 pm

booger–@ 3:55, agreed…but as for Clayton and Dekalb, one of my black friends says, “oh, you mean the dark-skinned white folks?”

Chris Salzmann

July 18th, 2009
4:00 pm

You may be on the left, right or somewhere in between; not agree with Bill Maher’s politics, but what he says about the state of this country rings very true. This didn’t happen overnight but this malaise has been happening over several decades.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/18/bill-maher-us-is-just-lik_n_239399.html

Enjoy or better still reflect.

Trust me

July 18th, 2009
4:02 pm

TNGelding,

When they come for my cell phone and satellite dish, things are getting tough. When they disconnect me from the Internet, it is crisis mode. I’ll be left out in the cold dark world with no communication, no way to check on my empty bank accounts and 201k, no access to the credit rating agencies to make sure that no one is using my flawless credit for nefarious purposes. USPS for all my business transactions. We might as well travel by horse and buggy at that point.