F-22 program taking heavy bureaucratic fire

There’s a bureaucratic and public-opinion war going on in Washington over the fate of the highly sophisticated but highly temperamental F-22, assembled up the road in Marietta. Defense Secretary Bob Gates and others trying to halt the expensive program fired a telling volley “from beyond visual range” in this morning’s Washington Post:

“The United States’ top fighter jet, the Lockheed Martin F-22, has recently required more than 30 hours of maintenance for every hour in the skies, pushing its hourly cost of flying to more than $44,000, a far higher figure than for the warplane it replaces, confidential Pentagon test results show.

The aircraft’s radar-absorbing metallic skin is the principal cause of its maintenance troubles, with unexpected shortcomings — such as vulnerability to rain and other abrasion — challenging Air Force and contractor technicians since the mid-1990s, according to Pentagon officials, internal documents and a former engineer.

While most aircraft fleets become easier and less costly to repair as they mature, key maintenance trends for the F-22 have been negative in recent years, and on average from October last year to this May, just 55 percent of the deployed F-22 fleet has been available to fulfill missions guarding U.S. airspace, the Defense Department acknowledged this week. The F-22 has never been flown over Iraq or Afghanistan….

“It is a disgrace that you can fly a plane [an average of] only 1.7 hours before it gets a critical failure” that jeopardizes success of the aircraft’s mission, said a Defense Department critic of the plane who is not authorized to speak on the record. Other skeptics inside the Pentagon note that the planes, designed 30 years ago to combat a Cold War adversary, have cost an average of $350 million apiece and say they are not a priority in the age of small wars and terrorist threats.”

The entire piece is pretty damning, both in terms of the reliability of the F-22 and what its problems say about the Pentagon’s weapons-acquisition process. You should read the whole thing, but here’s a taste:

“Its troubles have been detailed in dozens of Government Accountability Office reports and Pentagon audits. But Pierre Sprey, a key designer in the 1970s and 1980s of the F-16 and A-10 warplanes, said that from the beginning, the Air Force designed it to be “too big to fail, that is, to be cancellation-proof.”

Lockheed farmed out more than 1,000 subcontracts to vendors in more than 40 states, and Sprey — now a prominent critic of the plane — said that by the time skeptics “could point out the failed tests, the combat flaws, and the exploding costs, most congressmen were already defending their subcontractors’ ” revenues.

John Hamre, the Pentagon’s comptroller from 1993 to 1997, says the department approved the plane with a budget it knew was too low because projecting the real costs would have been politically unpalatable on Capitol Hill.

“We knew that the F-22 was going to cost more than the Air Force thought it was going to cost and we budgeted the lower number, and I was there,” Hamre told the Senate Armed Services Committee in April. “I’m not proud of it,” Hamre added in a recent interview.

Sprey and Thomas Christie, also cited in the piece, are renowned as advocates of effective air power and reform of the Pentagon’s overly politicized contracting system. They were colleagues of the infamous Col. John Boyd, maybe the best fighter pilot this nation has produced and a man who helped revolutionize air strategy and military theory. Their story is told in Atlantan Robert Coram’s book “John Boyd: The Fighter Pilot Who Changed the Art of War.”

135 comments Add your comment

USinUK

July 10th, 2009
8:12 am

It’s a shame because, DANG if that isn’t one gorgeous plane. As the daughter of a Marietta L-M engineer (retired), I’m sad to see the F-22 go, but as an American taxpayer, I say we need to put our $$$ where it is cost-effective without compromising national security.

oh, and HAPPY FRIDAY!!!

I Report :-) You Whine :-(

July 10th, 2009
8:14 am

A “news” paper that has blogs that can’t reload the most recent comments takes a foray into state of the art weapons procurement.

OK.

Who do you believe, the socialists that want the US dead and buried or the company that has provided us with the most devastating weapons ever designed, with a history going back to the Super Fortress World War 2 winning bombers?

hmmmmmm

Mrs. Godzilla

July 10th, 2009
8:16 am

COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY OFF TOPIC

have a smile this morning…..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQcVllWpwGs&feature=player_embedded

Kamchak

July 10th, 2009
8:17 am

“Too big to fail.”

The definitive phrase of of this century.

USinUK

July 10th, 2009
8:24 am

Whiner –

“who do you believe … ”

your comment makes absolutely no sense. how about “who do you believe – the analysts who are experts in aeronautics or the company that wants the multi-billion dollar contract”. hrmmmmm …

USinUK

July 10th, 2009
8:26 am

kamchak –

“The definitive phrase of of this century”

we’re pnly in year nine … I’d stick with the “phrase of this decade” ;-)

Road Scholar

July 10th, 2009
8:29 am

Yeah, everyone wants a Mercedes, but most can’t afford one. Same with our Air Force. It’s a nice to have; not a got to have. Why can’t the other planes used be upgraded, as they have in the past. Now is not the time to waste money.

FinnMcCool

July 10th, 2009
8:31 am

USinUK can see the issue.

Just move on to the next fighter plane design….or are the engineers out of ideas?

FinnMcCool

July 10th, 2009
8:33 am

It’s like owning a Jaguar: You have to own 2 so you have one to drive while the other one is in the repair shop.

retiredds

July 10th, 2009
8:37 am

So, Whiner, if we don’t build 22 more F-22’s to keep Saxby in office, the US is going down in ruins. Sorry, pal, I think that’s a stretch.

USinUK

July 10th, 2009
8:37 am

Finn –

g’morning!! anyone who knows engineers knows that they are NEVER out of ideas … “I wonder what would happen if we changed the angle on this … maybe we can improve that … ” … of course, dad can’t operate the car stereo, but that’s a different story …

I’m more of an Aston Martin girl, myself, so I’ll just have to take your word on the Jags ;-)

ByteMe

July 10th, 2009
8:40 am

Finn: I thought the second one was to cannibalize for parts.

Angry Black Man

July 10th, 2009
8:43 am

So whiner, do you advocate fiscal conservancy except for military procurement? And how do you suggest we pay for the ever-expensive F22, do we raise taxes? Cut Social Security? Cut farm subsidies?

USinUK

July 10th, 2009
8:48 am

“And how do you suggest we pay for the ever-expensive F22, do we raise taxes?”

war bonds.

or maybe a bake sale.

FinnMcCool

July 10th, 2009
8:48 am

I guess I Report wants you to cut his taxes and also wants to rail on the Obama administration for spending money like a sailor in port….but, hey, a lil waste in the military is quite alright.

hehe, ByteMe: How do you get spare parts for a Fiat? Follow another one around.

Kamchak

July 10th, 2009
8:48 am

USinUK

We’ll see. “Too big to fail” walks hand in hand with “it’s easier to ask for forgiveness than ask permission.”

Matilda

July 10th, 2009
8:53 am

Hey USinUK! I totally agree. That is one COOL-azz plane! Luuuuv watching them zoom over… get all goose-pimply. All those associated with the F-22 should be proud that they made one totally cool-azz plane.

But when it’s time to move on, it’s time to move on. Cost-benefit realities should not be ignored for reasons of pride and/or convenience. It would be easier for LM and the community to just keep doing what they were doing and getting paid for it, but it’s time to re-think, re-tool, and build something else. There’s no disrespect in that.

USinUK

July 10th, 2009
8:54 am

Kamchak –

““it’s easier to ask for forgiveness than ask permission.”

that saying is eternal!

USinUK

July 10th, 2009
8:59 am

Matilda –

you’re right – the F-22 really is a sight to see – but, then, so are the old cars from the 1950s with the fins and the roadsters with the wooden panels … that doesn’t mean that we should still be making them today.

my question for the class is, when does fiscal responsibility override GA jobs??? Does Saxby Chambliss have a greater responsibility to the country to be fiscally responsible with the Pentagon budget or does he have a greater responsibility to the people of GA to keep them employed.

just curions about your opinions …

ByteMe

July 10th, 2009
9:00 am

Whiner has no answers, no need to keep asking him. He has only snark. That and strings and sealing wax.

USinUK

July 10th, 2009
9:00 am

… man, my typing is for crap today … that should be curioUs … and above should be Only … (glad it’s Friday)

USinUK

July 10th, 2009
9:01 am

ByteMe – don’t forget chewin’ gum

Normal

July 10th, 2009
9:01 am

USinUK

July 10th, 2009
8:54 am

““it’s easier to ask for forgiveness than ask permission.”
————-
That is the story of MY life…
————–
Good Friday Morning, all…

Brad Steel

July 10th, 2009
9:01 am

What a shock to see the budget hawks whip out our tax dollars when it comes to wasting money on an antiquated cold war concept.

If the cold warriors need money for cool military hotrods will new rims, make’m sell their old stuff on eBay.

I hear the bombs that Reagan sold the Iranians are running low – could be a hot eBay market niche.

ByteMe

July 10th, 2009
9:01 am

USinUK: Saxby is a whore, so his job is to put out for the big corporations of Georgia so he can keep raising money and keep his job.

Gandalf, the White! (!)

July 10th, 2009
9:02 am

Demand War Reparations from Saudi Arabia,Iraq, North Korea and Argahnistan, after we NUKE THEM!

Normal

July 10th, 2009
9:03 am

USinUK: Let’s bring back the Spitfire, throw a couple of missles on ‘em
and let ‘em rip…

I Report :-) You Whine :-(

July 10th, 2009
9:03 am

ABM- Cutting the subsidies to Acorn would be enough to pay for the whole entire fleet of F22’s.

Who are you kidding?

Normal

July 10th, 2009
9:04 am

But Gandalf, Nuking them is SOOOO messy…

George American

July 10th, 2009
9:04 am

Better to spend our tax dollars on making this country strong, safe and proud. Than on some welfare mothers or other BS democrat social program.

Cut ALL of the democrat programs and we will have plenty on money to return America to a superpower.

ByteMe

July 10th, 2009
9:05 am

USinUK: Saxby was went on the attack when the INS went after a south Georgia farm for knowingly employing illegals. Then when the anti-illegal tide came in, he claimed he was always for keeping illegals out of the country. Such a whore and idiots here voted for him.

ByteMe

July 10th, 2009
9:05 am

Normal: nuking is only messy if you have to clean up afterward.

Normal

July 10th, 2009
9:06 am

George, we make America great by showing the rest of the world what’s right, and how to do it…

Bosch

July 10th, 2009
9:06 am

Isn’t one of the problems with the F-22 that it isn’t – um, can’t quite think of the word, but useful, or relevant anymore?

Gandalf, the White! (The Ryhmin' Rastamon!)

July 10th, 2009
9:06 am

BRAD STEEEL
HERES THE DEAL

YOU THINK
YOUR IDEAS ARE WHITTY
WE KNOW
THEY ARE $H!TTY
WE WISH
THAT YOU WEREN’T STAYIN’
GOODBYE!
AND THANKS FOR PLAYIN’

Bosch

July 10th, 2009
9:07 am

ByteMe,

You’ve made me spit out my Cheerios this morning with the whole “Saxby is a whore” bit.

Thanks!! I couldn’t agree more!!!

Kamchak

July 10th, 2009
9:07 am

“that saying is eternal!”

Yeah, but it leads to things like cost-overruns and cover up.

Bosch

July 10th, 2009
9:08 am

Oh, and USinUK,

Excellent show!!!

USinUK

July 10th, 2009
9:08 am

Normal –

I live very close to a couple of the air fields that defended London in the Battle of Britain (one of them being Biggin Hill) – they put on a great air show every fall, so we get to see Spitfires and Lancaster bombers on an annual basis. and, yeah – they are just curvy and gorgeous (completely different from the angular F-22, but a thing of beauty nonetheless).

I tell you what, though … the sound of a Lancaster bomber going over our house was shocking in a rattle-your-sternum sort of way … I can’t even imagine what the people of England (and western Europe) thought when they heard dozens of them flying overhead. It must have been thrilling and terrifying at the same time.

George American

July 10th, 2009
9:09 am

ByteMe

July 10th, 2009
9:09 am

Bosch: such a waste of Cheerios to end up on the table like that.

USinUK

July 10th, 2009
9:10 am

Bosch –

huzzah!!! I’m so glad you like it – :-D

and I see you guys are getting Survivors, too! also very good, in a The Stand kind of way.

George American

July 10th, 2009
9:11 am

NORMAL,

LET’S KEEP THE FUNNY CONSERVATIVE RHYMING:

MIGHT MAKES RIGHT

Gandalf, the White! (The Ryhmin' Rastamon!)

July 10th, 2009
9:11 am

NORMAL:
When we Nuke Saudi Arabia, it will turn the whole area into a HUGE glass parking lot. This will serve two purposes:

1.It will reflect the Sun’s rays and reduce global warming.

2.It will give us a place to park all the POS cars that That Goverment Motors and American Motors produce.

Maybe we can get Jay and Brad Steel to ride one into target, as in Dr. Stragelove!

Bosch

July 10th, 2009
9:12 am

Kamchak,

Trouble at the Gold Cup! Do you know what time the US plays Haiti tomorrow?

USinUK

July 10th, 2009
9:13 am

ByteMe –

“Saxby was went on the attack when the INS went after a south Georgia farm for knowingly employing illegals. Then when the anti-illegal tide came in, he claimed he was always for keeping illegals out of the country”

I’m shocked … but in a Captain Renault kind of way

Gandalf, the White! (!)

July 10th, 2009
9:13 am

I am laughing at my own post!

Bosch

July 10th, 2009
9:17 am

Kamchak,

I found it.

Get Real

July 10th, 2009
9:18 am

Whiner, any substantiated proof of those ’subsidies’ to ACORN. Its quite hilarious that some say this plane is the end all/be all when it hasn’t flown one combat mission. If thats not pork what is? Seems that the geographical location of where this plane is built has a lot to do with it. Where are all the teabaggers on this?

Gandalf, the White! (!)

July 10th, 2009
9:19 am

EXPAT: The only sound prettier than a Rolls-Royce Merlin is that of a Wide Open Aston Martin V-12!

Kamchak

July 10th, 2009
9:20 am

Bosch

No, I haven’t been keeping up since the 4-0 win over Grenada. What happened?

Normal

July 10th, 2009
9:20 am

Gandalf, the White! (!)

July 10th, 2009
9:13 am
I am laughing at my own post!

I’m laughing with you…and George.
——————
USinUK: Saxby: I’m shocked, shocked to find illegal aliens in Georgia, now where’s my kickback…

Gandalf, the White! (!)

July 10th, 2009
9:21 am

GET Real: The country with the strongest military rules. Technology is King. Proof? History!

Joe Matarotz

July 10th, 2009
9:23 am

In July, 2006, the Navy retired the F-14 Tomcat. Since it went into service in 1974, it was unmatched in air superiority. It had the most powerful radar in a fighter plane, the AWG-9, mated to the Phoenix missile, the AIM-54. It could track and shoot down 6 enemy aircraft at the same time, at a distance of 100 miles. From 1974 to 2006, Tomcats shot down exactly 5 enemy aircraft. Four of those were Libyans in the same engagement.

Who is going to challenge us? Who is building aircraft that can challenge our technology? Unfortunately, the Air Force still carries a lot of political clout, dating back to their strategic position in the Cold War. The Air Force also speced out the F-16, a technological marvel. For every one flying, there were two more on the ground which had been parted out to keep that one in the air. It has already been submitted from several defense experts that the Air Force itself has become obsolete. Real combat has shown that the Navy and Marines have sufficient air capability to support ground troops.

It’s time to stop throwing good money after bad supporting a branch of service that no longer holds relevance in today’s combat theater.

USinUK

July 10th, 2009
9:24 am

GtG –

“EXPAT: The only sound prettier than a Rolls-Royce Merlin is that of a Wide Open Aston Martin V-12!”

(feeling my heart flutter at the thought) I’m not really a gear-head, but MAN do I like Astons … they’re just … so … dreamy.

Normal –

“I’m shocked, shocked to find illegal aliens in Georgia, now where’s my kickback…”

yay! you got it in one!! :-)

Copyleft

July 10th, 2009
9:25 am

Gee, a product built by defense contractors turns out to be shoddy, unreliable, and WAY more expensive than promised.

Is anyone surprised? Defense contracts are simply welfare payments to wealthy constituents, folks. That’s how Congress has always operated. “Making America safe and strong” is just the excuse given for shoveling more money into their buddies’ pockets.

Mort Merkel

July 10th, 2009
9:25 am

We could fly F-15s another 25 years and still dominate the skies. Build and buy an upgrade when we need one.

ByteMe

July 10th, 2009
9:26 am

USinUK: you know how dogs will come up and try to stick their nose in your crotch? That was Saxby for 5 years with Bush. Then he tried to act like the problems weren’t related to anything he did while he was a Senator. Stinkin’ whore.

USinUK

July 10th, 2009
9:26 am

GtG –

“GET Real: The country with the strongest military rules. Technology is King. Proof? History!”

just as the people of Georgia … (”let’s see … we have 3 tanks, Russia has 300 … I think we can take ‘em”)

ByteMe

July 10th, 2009
9:27 am

Joe: they definitely still have relevance in today’s theater (how else would be get Marines into the remote regions of Afghanistan?). But that doesn’t mean you write them a blank check on a boondoggle.

Bosch

July 10th, 2009
9:28 am

Kamchak,

Here’s an article:

http://msn.foxsports.com/soccer/story/9791572/Ugly-ending-mars-Panama-Mexico-game

Chaos at the Panama/Mexico game. Fans went nuts – complete chaos! Dogs and cats sleeping together and all that!

Normal

July 10th, 2009
9:30 am

ByteMe

July 10th, 2009
9:26 am
you know how dogs will come up and try to stick their nose in your crotch? That was Saxby for 5 years with Bush.

Aw Com’on, Saxby was just playing ostrich…you, know hidin’ his head up…

USinUK

July 10th, 2009
9:33 am

Bosch –

who does Phillips think he is?? Zinidine Zidane??

GayGrayGeek

July 10th, 2009
9:34 am

ByteMe @ 9:26 – That was an insult to all prostitutes, everywhere.

USinUK

July 10th, 2009
9:36 am

ByteMe –

sorry, but the people of GA got what they deserved in Saxby Chambliss – they voted out a good man (Cleland) after Chambliss’s dirty smear of a campaign.

George American

July 10th, 2009
9:37 am

Gandalf,
Please keep up the funny postings. You are hysterical, clever and, of course, White ;)

jconservative

July 10th, 2009
9:38 am

“from October last year to this May, just 55 percent of the deployed F-22 fleet has been available to fulfill missions guarding U.S. airspace, the Defense Department acknowledged this week. The F-22 has never been flown over Iraq or Afghanistan….”
Why would Sen. Chamblis want to spend billions on a weapon system that does work? Answer, he is a tax & spend liberal Republican ( see the 8 years under the liberal Republican George W. )

Folks get it through your heads, there is no such thing as a conservative Republican.

Normal

July 10th, 2009
9:38 am

USinUK Casablanca, my favorite Bogie movie. A love story made for men…jus’ sayin’

Bosch

July 10th, 2009
9:39 am

USinUK,

Zidane should have slugged Metarazzi as hard as he could instead of a simple head butt.

ByteMe,

You are cracking me up this morning! So……how do you REALLY feel about Saxby? I know that I probably feel the same as you do.

Bosch

July 10th, 2009
9:40 am

USinUK,

We almost got rid of Saxby last time, but he had to run those commercials explaining how Jim Martin had killed all those children and all.

USinUK

July 10th, 2009
9:43 am

Normal –

“USinUK Casablanca, my favorite Bogie movie. A love story made for men…jus’ sayin’”

if you’ve never seen To Have and Have Not, RUN, don’t walk, to rent it! It predates Casablanca by a year or 2 and is absolutely fantastic! (it’s Bogey’s first movie with Lauren Bacall – and she is SMOKIN’!)

Bosch –

don’t get me started on the Chambliss/Martin race. I was lucky enough to know Jim Martin when I worked for the state house – he is one of the most honest men I have ever met. That a slimebucket like Chambliss beat him is a crime.

USinUK

July 10th, 2009
9:44 am

Bosch –

As for ZZ’s head butt – I dunno – I think a good head butt has the element of surprise that a wind-up and a punch just doesn’t have!

Bosch

July 10th, 2009
9:49 am

USinUK,

Well, Martin killed all those children, don’t ‘cha know. Just kidding. Yeah, I agree. I don’t like to think about Martin losing either, so I will just drop it. GGG is right, comparing Saxby to a whore, is an insult to fine whores everywhere.

ByteMe

July 10th, 2009
9:50 am

GGG: but I really wanted to make sure that I distinguished Saxby from whores that bathe.

Bosch: Here’s a word analogy problem that will help explain: Politicians are to pigs as Saxby is to… what?

USinUK: And that’s been the problem with who the D’s have chosen to run against Saxby. They’ve been too nice. Saxby needs to be hit with a political shovel up side the head and Martin was not the guy to do it.

ByteMe

July 10th, 2009
9:52 am

To distract from my rant, I think we’re missing a point Jay tried to make: the posting above came from a “confidential” Pentagon report. Clearly leaked by someone high up. And intended to embarrass Congress concerning the way the F-22 was being funded and protected. How will that play in Washington?

Normal

July 10th, 2009
9:53 am

USinUK: To Have and Have Not, “you do know how to whistle, don’t you? You just pucker up and blow….Oh GAWD, yes!!!

USinUK

July 10th, 2009
9:56 am

ByteMe-

“Saxby needs to be hit with a political shovel up side the head and Martin was not the guy to do it.”

true – the guy is an elder of his church, fercryingoutloud!

USinUK

July 10th, 2009
9:56 am

Normal –

are you sure we’re not related, somehow!?!?

getalife

July 10th, 2009
9:57 am

Well. if the military industrial complex wants it, they will get.

The establishment is running over Obama.

Normal

July 10th, 2009
9:58 am

USinUK:
I don’t know, could be…My Mom told me I was a descendant of a long line she fell for…

TW

July 10th, 2009
10:00 am

Sounds to me like Gates ‘don’t support the troops.’

Seriously, though, the country drops to its knees at any mention of military spending (except for veterans) – basically a blank check – and we’re supposed to be surprised that the product is nothing but a multi-million dollar boat anchor?

Oh Really....

July 10th, 2009
10:02 am

jconservative lectures with pedantic condescension: “Folks get it through your heads, there is no such thing as a conservative Republican.”

Must mean that only democrats are conservative.

ByteMe

July 10th, 2009
10:05 am

Oh, Really: Must mean that only democrats are conservative.

And that binary thinking is the hallmark of a conservative. No outside-the-box thinking whatsoever.

Try this thought: “there is no such thing as a truly conservative Republican politician.” That help?

USinUK

July 10th, 2009
10:06 am

ByteMe –

you know what REALLY kills me about the Cleland defeat??? this was a guy who really DID support the troops – he didn’t just put a yellow flippin’ sticker on the back of his car. He heard about a military kid who lost his leg – Cleland visted him in the hospital not just once, but a number of times to see how he was recouping. THAT’s the type of person we needed to have in Congress – not some wanker who got FIVE deferments to avoid the same war Cleland served in.

urgh

USinUK

July 10th, 2009
10:09 am

woohoo!! nothing like a weak dollar to help the economy:

The gap between imports and exports decreased 9.8 percent to $26 billion, the smallest deficit since November 1999, from a revised $28.8 billion in April that was lower than previously estimated, the Commerce Department said today in Washington. Imports fell while exports rose the most since July 2008.

every little bit helps!

Kamchak

July 10th, 2009
10:11 am

Bosch

Wow!!! Four red cards in one game—and we have a WC qualifier in Mexico City this August. If the fans of the Tri keep this up, officials will bar fans and play the games with only the press in attendance. I saw a UEFA match on TeeVee under those conditions–in Italy I think. Eerily quiet.

Gandalf, the White! (!)

July 10th, 2009
10:17 am

Soccer isn’t a sport, please don’t refer to it here!

@@

July 10th, 2009
10:17 am

Good grief, jay, it’s only 10:06.

There’s SOME “chit”-chat worth reading, like Hillbilly…… josef, et al’s last night…then there’s idle ^^^ exchange.

As to YOUR topic….if the bulk of the plane’s value lies in maintenance, replace ‘em.

Gandalf, the White! (!)

July 10th, 2009
10:18 am

sissy’s play soccer, men play Football!

Redneck Convert

July 10th, 2009
10:21 am

Well, I had a Plymouth back in the 50s that you had to pour hot water on the engine to get it to start if it was below 50 degrees outside. Every mechanic for miles around counted on the money to fix it.Sounds like this F-22 is a Plymouth.

But it’s very important to keep the F-22. There’s GA jobs at stake. If the military ever needs to use the F-22 in combat they can just send six and hope that one won’t break down before a battle is over. We can’t have people walking around without high-paying jobs. We didn’t send old Saxby back up there just to cost us jobs.

Anyhow, I’m making the rounds this a.m. and all you drunks can count on having cold beer ready around Miller Time today. Sometimes I wonder why they don’t pass a Beer Truck Drivers Day the way they do for just about every other job in this country. I guess we’re suppose to just work in the shadows and get took for granted. Have a good day everybody and try to remember, if there’s beer on ice some beer truck driver hauled it there.

USinUK

July 10th, 2009
10:27 am

“sissy’s play soccer, men play Football!”

bollocks.

sissies play football. men play rugby.

USinUK

July 10th, 2009
10:29 am

Redneck –

“But it’s very important to keep the F-22. There’s GA jobs at stake. If the military ever needs to use the F-22 in combat they can just send six and hope that one won’t break down before a battle is over. We can’t have people walking around without high-paying jobs. We didn’t send old Saxby back up there just to cost us jobs.”

frankly, it would be cheaper to cancel the contract and give the employees that will lost their jobs a check for 1 year’s salary. a LOT cheaper. I’d rather do that, personally, than go on perpetuating a bad project.

USinUK

July 10th, 2009
10:30 am

dangitall!! LosE their jobs, not losT their jobs …

Get Real

July 10th, 2009
10:35 am

GTW, technology must be why we did such a bang up job in Iraq right? Or Vietnam? Get Real.

I Report :-) You Whine :-(

July 10th, 2009
10:40 am

Japan is building reactors from start to finish in four years. China is planning 60 new reactors while Russia is selling its nuclear technology all over the world. President Obama has even said Iran has the right to use nuclear power for energy. We invented this technology. Isn’t it time we got back in the game?

Because we have too many Chicken Little’s running around hysterically shrieking about it, just like the F22.

DB, Gwinnettian

July 10th, 2009
10:42 am

I think we’re missing a point Jay tried to make:

Here? In the comments thread? Unpossible!

Kamchak

July 10th, 2009
10:42 am

“There’s SOME “chit”-chat worth reading, like Hillbilly……josef, et al’s last night….then there’s idle^^^exchange.”

Of course you never stoop to “chit”-chat—like pool cleaning, or gardening, or flirting with other posters. You continually and self-righteously criticize others for the same behaviour that you engage in.

Gale

July 10th, 2009
10:42 am

Good comment up there, although I am not sure it was directly intended. Take the money we are throwing away on the fighter jet no one wants and spend it on our vets. The plants in Marietta can retool and build something someone wants to buy, just like we have told the auto makers.

Gale

July 10th, 2009
10:44 am

Oooh, rougher sport is rugby… and no pads.

AmVet

July 10th, 2009
10:45 am

Eisenhower was spot on about the military industrial complex. And beyond sadly, the last GOP president with an inkling of vision.

“Folks get it through your heads, there is no such thing as a conservative Republican.”

Based on what I’ve seen for the past thirty years, I’d have to agree. UFO’s and Intelligent Design are more believable at this point.

Sweet irony would be scumbag Saxby’s knee caps being broken after tripping over a wounded Viet Nam vet’s wheelchair.

George at 9:04, you’re not posting from Crawford are you? That lunacy looks very familiar.

“sissies play football. men play rugby.”

A smack down extraordinaire for those NFL twits…