The GOP sacrificed Sarah Palin’s future

Bill Kristol just won’t let Sarah Palin go quietly. In a new column at the Washington Post, he makes a number of startling claims about the soon-to-be ex-governor, including the following comparison to Barack Obama:

“He gave a good speech at the 2004 Democratic convention, was elected to the Senate that fall, and immediately started running for president. He didn’t accomplish much in his four years in the Senate (nor could he have been expected to). But that didn’t seem to hurt his standing. Isn’t Palin about as well positioned for the GOP 2012 nomination as Obama was in 2005 for the 2008 Democratic one?”

Uh. No Bill, she isn’t.

Kristol also claims that the “the panic among mainstream media commentators and the GOP establishment suggests real worry that if she does (run), she might pull off an upset. Why else the vehement assertions that she’s clearly made a terrible mistake? Why else the categorical insistence that her political career is finished?”

Well, maybe people are vehemently asserting that she’s made a terrible mistake because she’s made a terrible mistake. Maybe they are saying her political career is over because, well, it’s over. Maybe the GOP establishment expresses real worry about a Palin candidacy because unlike Kristol, it recognizes pending disaster.

While we’re on the subject, I want to address another point as well. The media have taken a lot of criticism for being mean to Palin and for driving her out of office. The truth is, it comes with the territory and always has. Nothing said about Todd Palin, for example, exceeds in viciousness or imagination to the attacks on Michelle Obama (remember that alleged “whitey tape?” The ape references?)

If you can’t handle it, don’t volunteer for the duty. Politics is not like shooting wolves from a plane. Politics requires that you get in among the wolves for hand-to-hand combat.

Furthermore, if conservative Republicans want someone to blame for ruining the once-promising career of Sarah Palin, they should look in the mirror. They’re the ones who plucked the poor woman out of Alaskan obscurity and fed her ego and dreams until her head all but exploded; they’re the ones who pushed her out onto the stage like some political Susan Boyle, totally unprepared for what was about to hit her.

Baseball managers, for example, know better than to bring that heat-throwing 19-year-old phenom pitcher from the single A’s straight up to the majors. Yeah, the kid might have talent, but they understand that the game as it’s played in the bigs is a whole ‘nother game from the Alaska League. They know that if you throw the kid into the lineup too early, you can ruin his confidence and force him try things he’s not ready to handle yet and all of a sudden, in your haste, you’ve turned a phenom prospect into a wreck.

But the ‘08 Republicans were desperate. They had no bench. So in a moment of panic they reached down into the deep minor leagues and brought up an inexperienced rookie who proceeded to get rocked every time she took the pitcher’s mound. They put her into a situation in which she was bound to fail, and for that failure they should blame only themselves.

And Kristol deserves more blame than most for Palin’s fall.

287 comments Add your comment

John

July 6th, 2009
5:39 pm

C’mon, you call that journalism? Exposing a midget like Kristol is like fishing with dynamite.

Normal

July 6th, 2009
5:39 pm

Palin will do all right, she’l take over Coulters gig on FOX…

Paul

July 6th, 2009
5:40 pm

What does Palin have that Obama didn’t have?

Baggage. Lots of it.

Sure, Palin and the Republican establishment brought it on themselves. But an awful lot of people have just a bit of an impression that maybe, just maybe, the attacks on her were just a tad harsher than they were on any Democrat in the campaign.

Actually, I rather hope she doesn’t run for the Senate. Might prod the Republican strategists to start thinking (I’ll just end this sentence right there).

Besides, Sarah needs to make some real money to pay off those legal debts. No wonder Democrats block tort reform – they make a cottage industry of frivolous ethics complaints as a political weapon.

Maybe Alaska can pass a law that says if you file suit and lose in such cases, you automatically pay the defendant’s legal fees….

getalife

July 6th, 2009
5:42 pm

Willard will win the gop.

Gomer and the drama queen will split the con vote.

Obama will get his second term.

Mrs. Godzilla

July 6th, 2009
5:43 pm

I Report (-: You Whine )-:

July 6th, 2009
5:44 pm

Furthermore, if conservative Republicans want someone to blame for ruining the once-promising career of Sarah Palin, they should look in the mirror. They’re the ones who plucked the poor woman out of Alaskan obscurity and fed her ego and dreams until her head all but exploded; they’re the ones who pushed her out onto the stage like some political Susan Boyle, totally unprepared for what was about to hit her.

Yeah, really, we should have been total sycophants like bookman and propped her up no matter how much lying we had to do.

Is that what you are getting at, toady?

ByteMe

July 6th, 2009
5:45 pm

Paul: you’re conveniently forgetting the millions in legal fees the Clintons’ ran up defending themselves from frivolous charges, right?

ByteMe

July 6th, 2009
5:46 pm

There you go again with the name-calling Whiner.

It’s soooo “junior high school” of you.

josef nix

July 6th, 2009
5:46 pm

Normal–you jest, but it’s not a bad idea…Sarah a lot smarter, better looking and is not nearly so mean and full of herself…

Normal

July 6th, 2009
5:46 pm

Whiner: Sometimes you make no sense at all…

Normal

July 6th, 2009
5:48 pm

Josef, I just calls ‘em like I sees ‘em…

Jay

July 6th, 2009
5:49 pm

ByteMe, Whiner can call ME all the names he can get past our automated censor. But overall, he’s taken a different approach and I appreciate it.

However, I did get a kick out of him writing that “we should have been total sycophants like bookman and propped her up no matter how much lying we had to do,” because that describes to perfection his defense of Palin until now.

I Report (-: You Whine )-:

July 6th, 2009
5:51 pm

normal- Perhaps I’m speaking over your head on purpose, ever thought of that?

ByteMe

July 6th, 2009
5:52 pm

Jay, I just think he needs to take his game up a notch if all it’s going to be about is silly name calling. I know 12-year-olds who are better at it than he is and he professes to be an adult.

Paul

July 6th, 2009
5:52 pm

ByteMe

No. It’s not the dollar amount, it’s the volume of separate charges. And the type. Palin’s had at least 13. I don’t remember, but did the Clintons have ethic complaints filed through Arkansas, or were theirs of a different nature, necessitating something other than an ethics board inquiry? It also would be more comparable if there were a dozen or so complaints about Hillary’s legal practice. Or complaints during Pres Clinton’s time as governor.

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2009/05/28/costly-ethics-complaints-pile-up-against-palin/

y’know, such complaints could even provide fuel for the conspiracy theorists “of course they file all these baseless complaints. They know she really could win if she weren’t bogged down with legal fees and smear campaigns….”

In other words, the tactic may have outlived its usefulness and become counterproductive.

josef nix

July 6th, 2009
5:52 pm

Normal–would you care to define your usage of the term “sometimes?” Jus’ askin’

josef nix

July 6th, 2009
5:54 pm

Hey, JAY–he can call you a dyke? Hmm, do tell…thass a joke…:-)

Mrs. Godzilla

July 6th, 2009
5:54 pm

Paul,

I don’t think the media treated her any harsher than Obama or Biden although I admit it may look that way because the necessary vetting for the job a heartbeat away from the Presidency had to be done and in a hurry.

We knew Obama, and those who claim not to have were too damn lazy to do their homework. The same is true of Biden and McCain. We knew what we were getting – whether you liked them or not.

Obama will get his second term.

I wish Mrs. Palin well.

I Report (-: You Whine )-:

July 6th, 2009
5:55 pm

This isn’t the hardest thing in the world to figure out here, Republicans do criticize one another, perhaps that is part of normal healthy debate, so for bookman to take advantage of something he would never even consider doing, he is after all a full fledged democrat party stooge, to point out the other side’s self exposed faults, well, they call that junk journalism where I come from.

Paul

July 6th, 2009
5:55 pm

getalife

You might have nailed it at 5:42. But if the economy’s still horrible and Dems have bungled health care, well, Romney may look a bit more of a look to many.

And against my better judgment I’m gonna ask, what’s the derivation of ‘Willard’?

josef nix

July 6th, 2009
5:58 pm

“Automated censor..” Get yours today! No clergyman necessary!

Tallulah Bankhead in a stage whisper to Cardinal Spellman, “Francis, dahlin’, your dress is beautiful but your purse in on fire.”

Been trying to get that one in ever since Debbie quoted her earlier…

ByteMe

July 6th, 2009
5:58 pm

Paul: not in AK, but in the White House. Lots and lots of investigations… none of which really went anywhere until Monica’s dress showed up. Legal bills were in the low seven digits. Basically, the equivalent of a couple of good overseas speeches.

I Report (-: You Whine )-:

July 6th, 2009
5:59 pm

However, I did get a kick out of him writing that “we should have been total sycophants like bookman and propped her up no matter how much lying we had to do,” because that describes to perfection his defense of Palin until now.

I never claimed to be unbiased.

Plus, I don’t belong to the side of the debate that thinks women are stupid and belong in the kitchen, how dare the try to represent the common people from which they came?

The horror!

Paul

July 6th, 2009
6:01 pm

Mrs. Godzilla

One thing in the back of my mind was the reaction of many women’s groups. Some have made the case that if Palin was a Dem nominee the counterattacks would have been immediate, harsh and relentless. But as Palin’s a conservative Rep, there was not much reaction. So the assumption is, it’s not about women, it’s about women of a particular political persuasion.

I don’t have a problem with that IF the groups don’t portray themselves as for fair and equal treatment of ‘women’ regardless of ideology.

[[We knew Obama, and those who claim not to have were too damn lazy to do their homework.]]

I was listening to Diane Rehm on NPR a few days back. A panelist made the case that Obama supporters disappointed with the force remaining in Iraq or the expansion in Afghanistan weren’t really listening to him – maybe they’d ‘done their homework’ but they saw what they wanted to see.

More irony. The Left, who has reason to be frustrated, is subdued, while the Right, who in this case has reason to be happy, aren’t.

Paul

July 6th, 2009
6:05 pm

ByteMe

Yeah, they were, by their very nature, much more expensive. But aren’t the rules on who foots the bills different? And again, it was the volume. I don’t recall there being nearly that many with the Clintons. Theirs were higher-profile, but they were by then in the White House, so each one was more of a story.

AmVet

July 6th, 2009
6:08 pm

But josef, the fundamental question for Ms. Palin is, “Is she good enough and smart enough and doggone it, do people like her?”

So what if she has a 81 MPH fastball with no movement, has a slider that barely moves and a hanging curve ball that says HIT ME REALLY, REALLY HARD!

:Republicans do criticize one another, perhaps that is part of normal healthy debate,…”

Andy, isn’t this in direct violation to sacrosanct Ronnie’s 11th Commandment? I think notwithstanding your unsupported claim, it is still LARGELY in effect…

Maybe in a few years she can start for the White Sox or Cubs. (D’OH!)

I Report (-: You Whine )-:

July 6th, 2009
6:10 pm

They’re the ones who plucked the poor woman out of Alaskan obscurity and fed her ego and dreams until her head all but exploded; they’re the ones who pushed her out onto the stage like some political Susan Boyle, totally unprepared for what was about to hit her.

It’s just a total rabid obsession, plain and simple.

She had more Executive experience than Obozo did.

Obozo- One speech, a year in the obscure Illinois Senate voting “Present,” and 173 days in the Senate.

Sounds like a single A’er to me.

josef nix

July 6th, 2009
6:11 pm

Am Vet–But josef, the fundamental question for Ms. Palin is, “Is she good enough and smart enough and doggone it, do people like her?”

To replace Coulter? Surely you jest! :-)

Paul

July 6th, 2009
6:11 pm

AmVet

Your second paragraph – were you talking baseball? After that pic the other day I thought maybe you were still….

:-)

(emoticon’s for the newbies passing though)

Dennis

July 6th, 2009
6:11 pm

Rumor is that Rove is on this fishing trip with the Palin family.

ByteMe

July 6th, 2009
6:12 pm

Paul: the rules were the same: you can’t really raise the money to pay the bills while you’re in office taking a government salary.

And it wasn’t the volume that did in Sarah, it was the $600,000 in bills that she is going to have to pay off.

Here’s a nice timeline of the Clinton investigations: http://www.usatoday.com/news/special/starr/starr005.htm

getalife

July 6th, 2009
6:13 pm

Paul,

I think Willard will do better than McTortured but the sane Americans will not vote for another depresssion.

That one is going to hurt the gop for a few cycles.

Willard is his real name.

Willard Mitt Romney

ByteMe

July 6th, 2009
6:13 pm

Whiner: “executive experience” like how well Nardelli has done with his experiences?

ByteMe

July 6th, 2009
6:14 pm

Dennis: dough boy wouldn’t know what to do with the fishing rod, let alone the hook.

Wes

July 6th, 2009
6:14 pm

Jay,

Do you have any concerns about the level of media coverage? It basically means that only people who are remarkably self centered are drawn to politics. Cincinatus might be a myth, but you can make a case that some of our founding fathers had similar inclinations. Anyone who has even the slightest desire for privacy on behalf of their family, who only wants to do a decent job and go home is pretty much out of the running these days. Do you really think that’s a good thing?

Paul

July 6th, 2009
6:15 pm

ByteMe

Thanks. Then again, that’s what PACs are for!

getalife

Sometime’s truth’s stranger than fiction. All I could think of was some semblance to the weather guy who used to be on the NBC morning show. It’s gotta be an ancestor-honoring thing.

AmVet

July 6th, 2009
6:15 pm

As the GOP Churns, from downstairs at 5:58.

Outstanding information. Absolutely fantastic.

It SHOULD be required reading material for every Republican. And it SHOULD make every Reagan supporter alive rue their decision to coddle that crazy old man. (No not Saddam)

Normal

July 6th, 2009
6:15 pm

Report (-: You Whine )-:

July 6th, 2009
5:51 pm
normal- Perhaps I’m speaking over your head on purpose, ever thought of that?

Thought of it and dismissed it instantly…

Joey

July 6th, 2009
6:16 pm

Jay;
Yet to be determined, but I submit that 2009 is not so different from 2005 as you wish. Especially given the directions that Obama/Rahm is taking us.

chuck

July 6th, 2009
6:16 pm

Jay, I still don’t understand McCain’s rationale for selecting Palin in the first place. It was truly his biggest of MANY mistakes in his campaign. Not only did he ruin HIS chances of becoming President, he left the Republican PARTY without a front runner for 2012. ANY Republican who thinks Palin can win in 2012 is delusional. I love her positions on the issues, but I want a little more “Gravitas” from my President.

She of course, is MORE QUALIFIED than Barack HUSSEIN Obama, at least having some measure of executive experience, but she was a poor choice from the beginning. She brought nothing to the ticket as we would have won Alaska anyway. A much better choice would have been John Kasich of Ohio…a state we HAD to win to have a chance. Had he given Kasich the attention that Palin got, we would have a great candidate for 2012.

As the GOP Churns

July 6th, 2009
6:19 pm

The GOP is doing a mighty fine job of fully utilizing the altar. Palin is just one more in a long line of sacrifices for the failed cause. The only question left for her is will she really go gracefully and stay away from politics for good.

booger

July 6th, 2009
6:19 pm

Jay,

I agree that the media has pretty well left Todd Palin alone. Now lets compare the the treatment of their children.

jokerman

July 6th, 2009
6:19 pm

If Mark Sanford and his little dalliances with his Argentine lover haven’t caused the NOT so great a state of South Carolina problems….now the ACC has moved three future baseball tournaments out of South Carolina. It seems South Carolina is being boycotted for flying the Confederate flag from the state capitol grounds.

Normal

July 6th, 2009
6:20 pm

You know, it just occured to me…If Palin went bird hunting with Cheney, who’d win?…

AmVet

July 6th, 2009
6:20 pm

Paul, yep. You know me.

With apologies to my soccer friends here, there is one true religion.

And it involves bases and bats and bunts and and warning tracks and foul poles and two out RBIs and…

Tom

July 6th, 2009
6:20 pm

And what a future she had!! So downright Republicanty and mavericky, so highly intellectual and thought-provoking and patriotic and God-fearing and tongue-speaking and animal-slaughtering and heroic and bravely coexisting right next ta them Russkies and so backwoodsy hillbillyish and…well…just so NeoConish! God Bluss Murcuh!! You betcha.

getalife

July 6th, 2009
6:20 pm

Paul,

Perhaps they wanted to call him willy.

Slick willy.

Either way, the establishment will win.

They always do.

josef nix

July 6th, 2009
6:21 pm

PAUL–have you seen the a**icons?

(-x-) kiss my…
(-!-) regular a**
(-?-) dumb a**
(–!–) fat a**
(-X-) leave my a** alone
(!) tight a**
(-e=mc2-) smart a**

Normal

July 6th, 2009
6:24 pm

CHUCK: I don’t think McCain had a choice. Remember he won the GOP nomination, but he was NOT the favorite of the American Taliban (Jesus Freak Right)

George American

July 6th, 2009
6:25 pm

Just as I thought, the elitist liberal media coming after our Sarah, the Real American again. Se gonna come back in 2012 with Joe the Plummer and make the liberal media pay!

We need this beautiful queen to help America get back on track. We need her moral guidance and her executive experience in the white house.

josef nix

July 6th, 2009
6:25 pm

NORMAL

“You know, it just occured to me…If Palin went bird hunting with Cheney, who’d win?…”

THE BIRDS…

Paul

July 6th, 2009
6:25 pm

getalife

I read [[Either way, the establishment will win. They always do.]] and I wondered, is it too early for 42 Below?

josef

sounds more like fetish icons to me!

Normal

July 6th, 2009
6:25 pm

AmVet…and the suicide squeeze…

I Report (-: You Whine )-:

July 6th, 2009
6:26 pm

BiteMe- What is your major malfunction?

Does the diaper need changing?

Read the freaking column, I did no more insults on him than he did on her.

get over it.

Normal

July 6th, 2009
6:26 pm

Josef! That was rich…

josef nix

July 6th, 2009
6:29 pm

jokerman–but you don’t see the same pack boycotting Six Flags and demanding it become Five Flags…hmmm. jus’ an observation..

As the GOP Churns

July 6th, 2009
6:29 pm

NORMAL

“You know, it just occured to me…If Palin went bird hunting with Cheney, who’d win?…”

THE BIRDS…

Hitchcock?

Normal

July 6th, 2009
6:30 pm

They oughta ban ALL the flags…Then the Commie pinko’s would have nothing to burn…

I Report (-: You Whine )-:

July 6th, 2009
6:32 pm

Yeah, Palin went “hunting” for Jim Martin, bagged that ass too, didn’t she?

Trophy.

Brad Steel

July 6th, 2009
6:32 pm

Kristol’s pathetic truckling to Palin from day one has been embarrassing to watch. It gives me the douche-shivers. He’s like the nerdy high school young republican reciting bad love poetry to the head cheerleader in a high school talent show. Ack! Urrrhhhh!

Kristol should limited his fantasy life to the milfhunter web site. He stands a better chance there.

josef nix

July 6th, 2009
6:32 pm

PAUL–heh, heh. (-e=mc2-)

AmVet

July 6th, 2009
6:33 pm

Chuck, is that the John Kasich who now appears all the time on Fox News in lieu of Bill O’Lielly?

Now, there’s a bold move by the GOP to keep those independents and moderates and undecideds coming back to the GOP’s Pup, er Big Tent.

The choice of Palin did not cost the RINO the White House as he was gonna lose it anyway. IMO it just widened the gap, as the aforementioned moderates and independents and undecideds scampered away from that female Curious George poste haste…

josef nix

July 6th, 2009
6:33 pm

NORMAL–remember what the Pesky Savage Unmentionable said about the stars and stripes, eh? As he said, jus’ sayin’.

Jay

July 6th, 2009
6:35 pm

Chuck, I agree. I met Kasich a couple of times when he was still in COngress, and although we disagree on some things, he struck me as someone who was at least serious about the business of governance. These days, that’s a lot.

josef nix

July 6th, 2009
6:36 pm

NORMAL–we could have a bonfire of the bannities! Got your book list ready?

AmVet

July 6th, 2009
6:37 pm

Normal, I love baseball and by proxy, its fans!

BTW I was in a colleagues office today and I looked up and on his filing cabinet he had a signed postcard of Mickey Mantle! The Mick! Number 7! My boyhood idol! And one of the reasons I am to this day a Yankee fan through thick and thin…

josef nix

July 6th, 2009
6:37 pm

Am Vet–Bill O’Liely. That’s a good one! :-)

jt

July 6th, 2009
6:37 pm

If Palin loses that R, she could be a contender.

But the establishment will smote her down.

I think she is cool(not withstanding an annoying accent), but the decency level is questionable because of the republican or democrat affiliation.

Bud Wiser

July 6th, 2009
6:44 pm

I never supported Palin from day one, and my assessment of her was accurate. She folded just like all of the dimwits that, thinking they are ‘arguing’ with me over a point, simply hurl insults and wheeze false bravado, because, quit frankly, most all of them cannot deal intellectually with the Bud. Thinking and reasoning are not of the liberal makeup.

Just read some of the followup on my prior 3:55 about that moron McNamara:

Bud Wiser you don’t even try to hide your bigotry do you. Do you blog with a pillow case over your head? You are a sick man. Who would want to motor deeo (-2 for spelling, moron) into your life? You must be kidding.”

“Another thing, Jack was supposedly between the sheets with Marilyn Monroe, Given the choice, let Bobby have Jackie…Just sayin’” I think you missed the press releases today about an upcoming book alleging Jackie was rolling Bobby, among others…for me, Marilyn was better.

Conservatism leads to Paranoia, I scroll past that racial bigotry without fail.
But I love his obsession with that 94% figure.
As in 63 out of 67.
Ironically myopic…
as ignorant as the writer, neither of these buffoons offer proof of racial bigotry, they just make the statement and assume it to be their own ignorant little factoid.

FACT: approximately 94% of blacks voting in the Pennsylvania primary last fall voted for Obama, so that is where the facts come from, not your stupidity in denial; scroll all you want, you’re too ignorant to understand anyway.

Enjoy your evening, toads.

RW-(the original)

July 6th, 2009
6:46 pm

I guess with Obama over in Russia saying he and Russia have agreed to quit being suspicious of each other it’s time for another whack at Sarah Palin.

No sense talking about the real world when we can have rampant speculation over a Presidential election that’s currently scheduled for forty months from now.

josef nix

July 6th, 2009
6:46 pm

jt–”,,,but the decency level is questionable because of the republican or democrat affiliation.”

AMEN!

josef nix

July 6th, 2009
6:48 pm

RW-(the original) @ 6:46. You spoilsport!

chuck

July 6th, 2009
6:48 pm

NORMAL, should I now call you a member of the ECO-FASCIST LEFT? That characterization of Christians is patently offensive. The fact that we have STANDARDS that we try to live up to is admirable and based on Biblical ideals that have been a part of our AMERICAN TRADITIONS from the beginning. It is the LEFT that is trying to destroy those American Traditions, and NOT for some better idea or a HIGHER STANDARD.

These ideals do not make us champions of Sarah Palin just because she shares them. I am opposed to her because of her lack of qualifications for the job, NOT because of her Christian ideals.

BTW, if you want to see the “American Taliban” look at members of your own party as they try to pass “Cap and Tax”.

GOP is gone

July 6th, 2009
6:49 pm

She could not make a hit in tee ball.

Besides that the lady up and quit, cut and ran, threw in the towel, left Alaskans holding the bag…..
And yet, that quitter is trying to ramble on about why she is not a quitter for quitting, in Rubublican speak, which when she speaks it, always requires a translator. It leaves one thinking, WTF did she just say and?

Truth

July 6th, 2009
6:51 pm

The Palin family has been treated much worse than anyone else. And Jay, you and your followers should be ashamed. Oh, and I would love to see you trash talk Palin to Todd’s face… Coward.

Normal

July 6th, 2009
6:52 pm

AmVet
I liked Mickey as a kid, but I felt really sorry for Maris when he broke the Babes record. I don’t watch professional ball anymore. I coach my grandkids and love to teach “real” baseball to the 12 and 13 year olds…

Paul

July 6th, 2009
6:53 pm

RW-(the original)

You have to give this to Pres Obama (well, you don’t ‘have’ to… that wasn’t a command, more a figure of speech…) every time I see him meeting with foreign leaders, especially those countries with some pretty racist attitudes, or those whose propaganda machines for years were geared towards the oppression of America in contrast to the propaganda of her ideals

I smile.

Politics aside. Agenda aside. It’s an ‘in your face’ from Americans that, regardless of what you hear about us, regardless of what your governments say, we really are different.

In some very good ways.

And if that causes people to doubt other things they hear from their regimes, so much the better.

josef nix

July 6th, 2009
6:54 pm

NORMAL–in re Chuck @ 6:48, D*mn, Bubba, you one bad a** SOB, ain’t cha? Yo opinions are so strong they kin brang down 6000 years of Westurn Civ’lization. Jus’ sayin’ :-)

GOP is gone

July 6th, 2009
6:57 pm

It is hard to get all skird of someone named “Todd”

chuck

July 6th, 2009
6:58 pm

Jay, exactly my point…as serious candidate for serious times.

I’m curious Jay, what is your assessment of Obama to this point? Are you happy that the government is involved in so many facets of our lives now?

josef nix

July 6th, 2009
6:58 pm

PAUL–as you know I’m no big fan of the Fierce Advocate, but I do enjoy seeing that face there…same reason I enjoy watching Jindal and Cao…

AmVet

July 6th, 2009
7:01 pm

josef, in my best Jimmy Durante voice, “I got a million of ‘em, a million of ‘em…

Dang! Old Wiser is a tad crotchety tonight. Even by his curmudgeonly standards.

And he is TOTALLY obsessed with those people who voted for BHO. He sees it as a kind of reverse racism. Notwithstanding that the following proves (as always) he is flat out fallacious:

1984 Walter Mondale 90% Ronald Reagan 9%
1988 Michael Dukakis 90% George H.W. Bush 10%
1992 Bill Clinton 83% George H.W. Bush 10%
1996 Bill Clinton 84% Bob Dole 12%
2000 Al Gore 90% George W. Bush 9%
2004 Kerry 88%, George W. Bush 11%

Ironically the dupe probably doesn’t realize that LBJ took 94% of the black vote in 1964.

94% indeed…

RW-(the original)

July 6th, 2009
7:01 pm

Paul,

I see the other side licking their chops and trying to keep a straight face when they really can’t believe their luck.

Earlier you were mentioning the outrage or lack thereof under similar circumstances. Before Obama left for Russia he said he was willing to sign an agreement with Russia at the executive level. Kinda ignores that whole Constitution thingy about the Senate ratifying treaties, but not a peep from the crowd that made a cottage industry of saying Bush was amassing power as a unitary executive.

josef nix

July 6th, 2009
7:01 pm

Truth–I wouldn’t mess with Todd. That Pesky Redskin Savage’d scalp yo a**

Normal

July 6th, 2009
7:03 pm

Chuck, WOW, Show some Christian love, dude..All I said was the Christian Right did not like McCain. They wanted a Theoracy for America, therefore the Taliban reference.

I for one do not want to sink your boat..er ark, but I don’t understand why you can’t have “standards” without religeon…You know..do the right thing because it’s the right thing to do…not because you fear you’ll go to Hades, if you don’t.

Back to what I said, Palin was forced on McCain and because of it, it lessened his chances to win, plain and simple.

But if you want to discuss “biblical” with me, you’d better study up…
One last thing…I like your passion, but it’s misdirected…Just sayin’

josef nix

July 6th, 2009
7:04 pm

RW-(the original)

“Kinda ignores that whole Constitution thinky about the Senate ratyfying treaties”

Picky, picky. ‘Sides, got that 60th seat now.

Paul

July 6th, 2009
7:05 pm

RW-(the original)

That’s why I said ‘politics aside.’

I was thinking more of the average citizen, who sees him standing with their leader and has that momentary ‘he’s their leader?!!?’

Don’t we have a certain party who wanted the Iraqi Status of Forces agreement, if not ratified, then at least examined in detail by Congress?

Golly, I wonder what changed?

Certainly not principles!

jt

July 6th, 2009
7:07 pm

Yeah, Todd should open a can.

TnGelding

July 6th, 2009
7:07 pm

Bill Kristol and Jay Bookman!

Seriously, it looks more and more like she’s decided to try to cash in with the GOP base that she so wildly enthused. Stay tuned to Fox.

Jay

July 6th, 2009
7:09 pm

Chuck asks, re: Obama:
“Are you happy that the government is involved in so many facets of our lives now?”

Well, I’d have to ask you to be more specific. I’m guessing that for example, you would include the bank bailout in that indictment. A lot of that was done under Bush, you may recall. From my point of view, I saw Obama facing three choices:

— Do nothing, let the banks collapse and we go into another Great Depression, as economists across the ideological spectrum warned would happen.

— Bail out the banks with hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars, but do little to ensure the taxpayer’s money was used wisely, honestly or well.

— Bail out the banks with hundreds of billions of dollars, but take necessary steps to ensure the money was used as wisely, honestly and well as possible.

He, and Bush, chose No. 3, correctly so I believe. The same formula played out with the automakers. If it works, the gov’t will be out of that businesss in a few years; if it doesn’t, the gov’t will again be out of that business in a few years.

So again, what exactly do you mean about this great change in government control over our lives under Obama?

josef nix

July 6th, 2009
7:09 pm

NORMAL
“But if you want to discuss “biblical” with me, you’d better study up…”

I’m glad we tend to agree on this issue, because you’re one I wouldn’t want to tangle with in this matter. jus’ sayin’

chuck

July 6th, 2009
7:10 pm

AmVet, Why on earth would the party of CONSERVATIVES want moderates in decision making positions in the party? How many “moderates” are in leadership in YOUR party?

The lates Gallup Poll gives us the following:

“PRINCETON, NJ — Thus far in 2009, 40% of Americans interviewed in national Gallup Poll surveys describe their political views as conservative, 35% as moderate, and 21% as liberal. This represents a slight increase for conservatism in the U.S. since 2008, returning it to a level last seen in 2004. The 21% calling themselves liberal is in line with findings throughout this decade, but is up from the 1990s.”

I know that since you only hangout with liberals you have a skewed view of the world, but the U.S. has TWICE as many conservatives as liberals and the number is growing. My point is that TOO MANY REPUBLICANS in office started thinking like democrats. THAT is why we lost.

jt

July 6th, 2009
7:11 pm

RW-
“Before Obama left for Russia he said he was willing to sign an agreement with Russia at the executive level. Kinda ignores that whole Constitution thingy about the Senate ratifying treaties, but not a peep from the crowd that made a cottage industry of saying Bush was amassing power as a unitary executive.”

Good point.
Thankfully, the world is ignoring these people more and more these days.
What if nobody shows up for the next federal election?

Normal

July 6th, 2009
7:11 pm

JoseF…Thank you, that is high praise indeed, coming from you

Paul

July 6th, 2009
7:13 pm

Normal

[[I don’t understand why you can’t have “standards” without religion]]

’cause maybe you know a bit about Romans and countless other cultures, who treated religion as something quite separate from standards of morality?

Maybe that’s it… Sanford’s a reincarnated Roman?

just a thought…

RW-(the original)

July 6th, 2009
7:13 pm

Paul,

I see what you’re saying but it’s not like the general world population in those places that matter really get a free and open look not to mention that in their state controlled media of many of those places they’ll be told Obama is a prop so that America can go on being a racist oppressive country that just can’t wait to invade them.

josef,

That 60 vote business is another reason why it made no sense to announce in advance that he would do it on an emergency basis in case ratification can’t be pushed through the Senate in time. The current agreement doesn’t expire until early December and he’s never seemed concerned about it taking five months to get anything else through.

josef nix

July 6th, 2009
7:15 pm

jt–”Yeah, Todd should open a can.”

Somebody talk about MY young’un like that and me get their hands on ‘em? There wouldn’t be a greasy spot left. My Unmentionable life partner is one thing, and you can question me for choosing that person and maybe maybe not, but you best leave my youngun alone!

Midori

July 6th, 2009
7:15 pm

Looks like “Sarahcuda” turned out to be Charlie the Tuna :lol:

Normal

July 6th, 2009
7:15 pm

Sanford’s a reincarnated Roman?

Paul, I think you’re on to something there…

Normal

July 6th, 2009
7:16 pm

Midori, dammit, you just made me blow my merlot out of my nose with that…