Robert McNamara, may he finally rest in peace
Robert McNamara
Donald Rumsfeld
They were different men of different eras. But the parallels between Robert McNamara, the defense secretary closely identified with the Vietnam War, and Donald Rumsfeld, his own long career linked forever to the Iraq War, are more than merely physical.
Both men entered office intent on modernizing a hidebound Pentagon bureaucracy, yet quickly found themselves running wars they did not want and did not understand. That failure proved disastrous. As the Prussian strategist Carl von Clausewitz famously argued, “the first, the supreme, the most far reaching act of judgment that the statesman and commander” must make is to understand the nature of the war they are fighting. “This is the first of all strategic questions and the most comprehensive,” Clausewitz argued, and neither McNamara nor Rumsfeld got it.
Both men were stubbornly arrogant. Both put so much faith in the overwhelming power of the U.S. military that they ignored the human side of war. Both pandered to the presidents they served, telling them what they wanted to hear rather than what they needed to hear. As Anthony Cordesman of the Center for Strategic and International Studies once noted, “There is far too little difference between the ‘neoconservatives’ of Iraq and Afghanistan and the ‘neoliberals’ of Vietnam.”
McNamara, 93, died this morning at his home in Washington. To his credit, he had long ago realized the errors of judgment, analysis and morality that contributed to U.S. failure in Vietnam, and he acknowledged them publicly. Watching him struggle with his legacy in the 2003 documentary “Fog of War” was profoundly excruciating, and something that no student of power or its personal toll should miss. A lot of Vietnam veterans will never forgive McNamara, and from their point of view I guess I can understand that. But he was at least willing to acknowledge his errors, and the price they exacted from others.
That’s where the parallels with Rumsfeld cease. If Rumsfeld has such moments of doubt — and as a man of considerable intelligence, he must — he keeps them mostly hidden. In fact, he has repeatedly attempted to dump the responsibility for what happened in Iraq onto others.
In 2004, for example, Rumsfeld responded to criticism that we were trying to occupy Iraq with insufficient manpower by claiming that “the big debate about the number of troops is one of those things that’s really out of my control.” This, from one of the most hands-on, detail-obsessed defense secretaries since, well, McNamara.
Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, the man who had been left behind to run Iraq with insufficient resources, wrote in his memoirs about a final private meeting with Rumsfeld in 2006, before Sanchez took retirement. In that meeting, Rumsfeld tried to pressure Sanchez into signing a memo stating that Rumsfeld had been kept in the dark about post-war plans for Iraq. Sanchez refused.
“… it was clearly a pattern on the Secretary’s part, and now I recognized it,” Sanchez wrote, recalling an earlier incident with Rumsfeld. “Bring in the top-level leaders. Profess total ignorance. Ask why he had not been informed. Try to establish that others were screwing things up. Have witnesses in the room to verify his denials. Put it in writing. In essence, Rumsfeld was covering his rear. He was setting up his chain of denials should his actions ever be questioned. And worse yet, in my mind, he was attempting to level all the blame on his generals.”
McNamara, for all his mistakes, was a more decent man than that. May he finally rest in peace.
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© 2011 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
149 comments Add your comment
George American
July 6th, 2009
12:02 pm
R.I.P Rummy. Like Sarah Palin, you are a great American.
sane jane
July 6th, 2009
12:06 pm
Looking forward to Secy. Rumsfeld’s mea culpa in 2033.
getalife
July 6th, 2009
12:08 pm
The Fog of War shows why we should never ever trust them especially in war.
They did it again in Iraq.
They never learn from their mistakes because they are not held accountable.
sane jane
July 6th, 2009
12:11 pm
“RIP Rummy”… lolz. Sometimes i fergit George A. is a troll.
No need to mock the red staters a la Redneck Convert, GA. Their sincere missives are funnier than your satire.
TnGelding
July 6th, 2009
12:12 pm
Amen!
And may all the friends and families of those needlessly sacrificed find peace, as well. Forgiveness heals the soul.
RealityKing
July 6th, 2009
12:18 pm
27 million free Iraqi’s prove this to be nothing but another progressively misleading attack piece, from atop a dead man’s grave. Shame on you Jay..
Normal
July 6th, 2009
12:20 pm
All I’m going to say about McNamara is this. During “Nam, I ran across
a large group of NVA crossing the Mekong River. We estimated at least battalion strength. We withdrew and called in a frag order. Three days later, the Air Force bombed the area…two days after the NVA were gone. ol’ Mac had to OK the order. This happened time and time again.
But at least he did admit his error. But I still think of the American lives lost by those NVA because we couldn’t take them out right then.
I truly hope it’s hell down there..just sayin’
RealityKing
July 6th, 2009
12:24 pm
A lot of Vietnam veterans will never forgive the ‘neoliberals’ of Vietnam. The true reason the Vietnamese people are still oppressed to this day..
josef nix
July 6th, 2009
12:27 pm
NORMAL:
“…I’ve been John O’Hara’d, McNamara’d, Andy Warhol won’t you please come home…”
Redneck Convert
July 6th, 2009
12:28 pm
Well, we could of won that Vietnam war if they’d of put a couple million more men in there. We’d still be fighting and winning over there, but I don’t know how much of the country would be left. To hear the generals tell it we’d just about wiped out the Commies as it was. Every time there was a battle somebody would get on TV and talk about how many thousands of VC were kilt. They were growing more but we were killing more than they could grow.
But no, they let the hippies get out of hand and cut and run. Like Sister Dusty always says, the cut and runners are pretty useless. This McNamara done his best, but the Left Wing Media was against him. They run him out of office just like they run Rumsfeld out of office. Now they’re ready to cut and run from Iraq too.
All I got to say is, what good’s a Army if you can’t use them in a war someplace? Have a good p.m. everybody.
sane jane
July 6th, 2009
12:29 pm
RealityKing toggling from “the smoking gun in the form of a mushroom cloud” (reason given in 2003) to “27MM free Iraqis” (justification offered today) proves that his grip on reality is tenuous at best.
Normal
July 6th, 2009
12:30 pm
REDNECK: We could use them right here, them yankees got some payback comin’…Burn Atlanta, huh…
Normal
July 6th, 2009
12:34 pm
Josef, Did you read GANDALFS 12:02 downstairs? It was his most intellegent one yet. You go, Gandalf…
josef nix
July 6th, 2009
12:35 pm
Redneck Convert
“This McNamara done his best, but the Left Wing Media was against him. They run him out of office just like they run Rumsfeld out of office. Now they’re ready to cut and run from Iraq too.”
“…been Ayn Randed, nearly branded a communist ’cause I’m left handed, that’s the hand to use, well never mind…”
josef nix
July 6th, 2009
12:40 pm
NORMAL–got that 12:02. He is beginning to make more sense, I’d say.
RealityKing
July 6th, 2009
12:40 pm
Image invading Iraq without attacking Bagdad…
More troops, fewer troops, different troops, redeployment all the same old Democratic talking points. Who are you kidding Jay? Democrats want to cut and run as fast as possible from Iraq, betraying the Iraqis who supported us and rewarding our enemies—exactly as they did to the South Vietnamese under Robert McNamara. Liberals spent the Vietnam War rooting for the enemy and clamoring for America’s defeat, a tradition Jay brought back right here on the AJC over Iraq.
Robert McNamara failed in Vietnam because he didn’t realize his greatest enemy was behind him.., the American liberal. Today’s progressive liberal.
RealityKing
July 6th, 2009
12:42 pm
In fact, during the Vietnam War, New York Times scion Arthur “Pinch” Sulzberger told his father that if an American soldier ran into a North Vietnamese soldier, he would prefer for the American to get shot. Now, as publisher of the Times, Pinch continues this tradition by doing all he can to help the enemy currently shooting at today’s American soldiers.
Normal
July 6th, 2009
12:45 pm
Robert McNamara failed in Vietnam because he didn’t realize his greatest enemy was behind him..,Yeah, Johnson…
—————-
Image invading Iraq without attacking Bagdad…Imagine not invading Iraq at all….
————–
Reality King…you’re a hoot…
getalife
July 6th, 2009
12:48 pm
It’s obvious rk never watched the fog of war.
Tell us rk, what were the North Vietnamese fighting for?
Normal
July 6th, 2009
12:53 pm
A chaplin asked a wounded soldier what had happened to him. The soldier said his sargeant told him that since the enemy was too hard to tell from the civilians, that you had to insult Uncle HO and if the guy got mad, you shot him. So when I was out in the bush, I saw a vietnamise walking down the trail. I shouted Uncle Ho bites big ones…he shouted back McNamara takes it in the ear…So, the Chaplin asked, how did you end up in the hospital? The soldier replied, when we stepped out to shake hands, we were hit by a truck….
GayGrayGeek
July 6th, 2009
12:54 pm
RK – Image invading Iraq without attacking Bagdad…
You mean, the way that Poppy and Darth Cheney did in 1991? THAT “image”?
RealityKing
July 6th, 2009
12:55 pm
In January 1973, the United States signed the Paris Peace accords, which would have ended the war with honor. Promising South Vietnam that we would resume bombing missions and provide military aid if the North attacked.
But as history now shows, it was Democrats that turned their backs on Vietnam, betraying our southern ally and trashing America’s image. Within a month of South Vietnam’s last appeal to a Democratic Congress, Saigon fell and southeast Asia became consumed in gruesome violence. Communist totalitarians swept through Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam. Massacres so vast that none other than then Sen. George “Peace” McGovern called for military intervention to stop a “clear case of genocide” in Cambodia.
Ever been to Vietnam Jay? You should go…, and finally take ownership of your precieved accomplishment in peace.
FinnMcCool
July 6th, 2009
12:58 pm
I blame W for Vietnam.
josef nix
July 6th, 2009
12:58 pm
getalife
“Tell us rk, what were the North Vietnamese fighting for?”
For pretty much the same thing our boys and the South Vietnamese were…somebody came, plucked them up, put a gun in their hands and said “kill.” What was their government, our government and the South Vietnamese government fighting for? It wasn’t clear then and it’s not clear now and as one more of those responsible goes to his reward without ever answering the question, we’ll probably never know. Let him go. I, for one, will not mourn his passing,
getalife
July 6th, 2009
12:59 pm
Don’t worry rk.
Mc did not know either until he went back and met their commander years later.
He had no idea what the enemy were fighting for.
USinUK
July 6th, 2009
1:01 pm
“If any question why we died/ Tell them, because our fathers lied” (Kipling)
McNamara wasn’t the first to lie – and he sure as hell wasn’t the last …
getalife
July 6th, 2009
1:01 pm
joseph,
He told Mc they were fighting for their Independence.
Copyleft
July 6th, 2009
1:07 pm
America had hoped that the lesson of Vietnam would not be forgotten–that not every war is automatically a glorious and just crusade.
Iraq proved that we have, indeed, forgotten that lesson. There’s no way to “win” a war you never should’ve started.
Normal
July 6th, 2009
1:07 pm
FINN, that’s not right…we would have lost much sooner, if “W” had been there…just sayin’
Normal
July 6th, 2009
1:10 pm
COPYLEFT: That’s because there is only one lousy paragraph in todays school books about a ten year war…how can you forget a lesson you can’t learn about?
USinUK
July 6th, 2009
1:10 pm
Normal and Finn … seriously … W really has been the Kiss of Death to every project he’s ever touched … if he actually HAD fought in Viet Nam, we would have lost a lot sooner …
Northern Songs, Ltd.
July 6th, 2009
1:12 pm
J Nix — If we’re quoting song lyrics:
I want to know who the men in the shadows are
I want to hear somebody asking them why
They can be counted on to tell us who our enemies are
But the’re never the ones to fight or to die
I Report :-) You Whine :-(
July 6th, 2009
1:13 pm
In fact, he has repeatedly attempted to dump the responsibility for what happened in Iraq onto others.
Uh, Rumsfeld’s war was victorious.
duh
FinnMcCool
July 6th, 2009
1:17 pm
I guess at least you can say Rumsfeld wasn’t behind the bribes which paid off the Sunnis to get them to stop shooting Americans (the so-called Surge).
Joey
July 6th, 2009
1:18 pm
If only Rumsfeld had asked Jay what he should do. But alas he did not, and must suffer the consequences.
Of course, this proved helpful to Jay. He gets to write 100 or so commentaries condemning Rumsfeld and Bush and Cheney and explaining exactly what they should have done.
Those that can do. Those that cannot ……..
getalife
July 6th, 2009
1:18 pm
Andy,
Once again, when we leave, Iraq has won their Indpendence like the Noth Vietnam.
david wayne osedach
July 6th, 2009
1:18 pm
We learn from his mistakes. No more Vietnams. Only Afghanistan…
FinnMcCool
July 6th, 2009
1:20 pm
Schumer: With Franken Seated No Need To Compromise On Public Option
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/06/schumer-with-franken-seat_n_226267.html
Git er done Chucky!
socialism is da BOMB
July 6th, 2009
1:21 pm
I had a cousin(killed) & uncle that served in vietnam. My uncle told me later when I was older,that if the Government had let the military WIN the war, they would have saved lives and time. I agree,we should allow the Government to Govern and let the military do what they are trained to do. Don’t put our brave,best of the best in harms way unless we want them to win.
DoggoneGA
July 6th, 2009
1:21 pm
“Uh, Rumsfeld’s war was victorious”
Oh sure…that’s why we’re still there, what is it now? 5 years after “mission accomplished”?
USinUK
July 6th, 2009
1:23 pm
Joey –
“If only Rumsfeld had asked Jay what he should do. But alas he did not, and must suffer the consequences.”
me, I would have been happy if Rumsfeld had just done what his other generals told him to do … MORE TROOPS at the beginning rather than try to do this on the cheap
or, basically, employ what Colin Powell called Overwhelming Force.
sorry, but Jay isn’t the only person saying that they were inept – folks in the military were saying it, too…
USinUK
July 6th, 2009
1:24 pm
… and with that, I’m outta here …
ya’ll have a good evening!
josef nix
July 6th, 2009
1:25 pm
I am chided in these parts for my insistence on trying to maintain a sense of civility and balance. Though I am not a veteran of the battlefield in Southeast Asia, my number came up in the last lottery and the “war ended” for us before the authorities of the state needed my body. I would not have gone. I would have gone to Canada “in a croker sack if that’s what it takes” under orders from my big brother who did go. Anyone who came through that time period knows how polarized our society became, how close we came to civil war, and what that did to a generation.
I was a peacenik, long hair and all that. When I went to register for a pow bracelet, the man behind the counter did not want to let me. What did I want it for? When I wore the bracelet to the rallies, the people there tried to make me take it off. A simple thing, really in the cosmic scheme of things, totally insignificant. But it told me a lot about the slavish adherence to the party line of whichever side. I do remember and the ghost raises its ugly head daily on this blog and all across our nation.
Like many, if not most, of us who went through that period, we try not to dwell there. But then another of the demons leaves this pale and we say rest in peace. No, no rest. For as long as there are those whose lives were torn asunder by his actions still alive, may he never know a moment’s peace.
DoggoneGA
July 6th, 2009
1:26 pm
“Don’t put our brave,best of the best in harms way unless we want them to win.”
Then why are we STILL in Iraq? Haven’t we already “won” that war? Remember “mission accomplished”?
josef nix
July 6th, 2009
1:29 pm
Northern Songs, Ltd.
Where is that from?
josef nix
July 6th, 2009
1:29 pm
copyleft–and what, pray tell, would that lesson be?
AmVet
July 6th, 2009
1:31 pm
One of the many great crimes by BushCo.
Instead of learning from that bungle in the jungle, they spit on all of the lessons (and needless deaths) they should have learned and played utterly stupid.
And gawd, did they play stupid well!
And these sycophants and willing dupes still shuck and grin for Rummie, Karly, Dickie and the Hero of the Texas ANG.
Truly amazing…
Bosch
July 6th, 2009
1:43 pm
“To his credit, he had long ago realized the errors of judgment, analysis and morality that contributed to U.S. failure in Vietnam, and he acknowledged them publicly. Watching him struggle with his legacy in the 2003 documentary “Fog of War” was profoundly excruciating, and something that no student of power or its personal toll should miss. A lot of Vietnam veterans will never forgive McNamara, and from their point of view I guess I can understand that. But he was at least willing to acknowledge his errors, and the price they exacted from others.”
Maybe so Jay, but it’s kind of hard to forgive someone (McNamara or Rumsfeld) when your dead (soldiers).
Bosch
July 6th, 2009
1:48 pm
Ok, and I upgraded to Internet Explorer 8 today and I can see the picture of Rummie, but not McNamara AND I can not get the Find a Five game.
Help.
Normal
July 6th, 2009
1:52 pm
I sit here reading everybody’s posts and some are truly remarkable, but as I sit here images re-emerge and I see my friend and shipmates…fighting..dying..and I know deep in my soul that we did no more and no worse than our fathers. America honored our fathers. America did not honor us. We weren’t fighting a war. We weren’t fighting for our country. We were fighting for another country…then and now. War was not declared for us, therefore we we not honorable, in our eyes and all the others. We died and we killed for no reason, none at all, hindsight tells us. we thought we were fighting against Commie aggression, but that was a myth…We think now that we are fighting terrorist aggression, but will hindsight prove that a myth too? I don’t know. I had my war and I want no other. I want no other man on this earth to have to face that reality ever. Only men who have never been to war want to start one. Listen to me. There is no glory in war. War sucks.