Support builds for public option in health insurance game
Michael Bloomberg, the self-made billionaire and one of the 20 richest people on the planet, joins Wal-Mart in support of a government-run health-insurance option as an alternative to private plans:
“Choice and competition are almost always in the best interests of our economy. When I started a small business 28 years ago, there were other companies that offered financial information to banks and businesses. But we found a way to do it better. That gave our customers more options, and it strengthened the marketplace of financial information.
The public option in health care — which President Obama is supporting as a central part of his proposed reforms — grows out of the same idea. If you like the coverage you have, you keep it. But if you don’t have coverage – or if you lose your coverage – you’d have another option. And virtually everyone agrees that a well-managed public option has real potential to provide — for less money — the same benefits that private insurers provide.”
As Bloomberg notes, a public option will likely have lower administrative costs. “We know this based on our experience with Medicare, which spends a lower percentage of every dollar on overhead than private insurance plans do, on average.” Furthermore, “94 percent of metropolitan areas in the United States are dominated by one company or a small group of companies. This kind of anti-competitive concentration protects private insurers from ever having to feel the urgency to provide more for less. When you don’t have to find ways to cut costs and produce a better product, you tend not to do it. The public option offers the opportunity to force the system to innovate, evolve and improve.”
In its own letter, signed jointly with the Center for American Progress and the Service Employees International Union, Wal-Mart lays out the business-case necessity for reform:
… few businesses will be able to keep up with the pace at which premiums are rising.
Premiums are expected to rise by 20 percent in less than four years, according to research by professors at Harvard University — costing 3.5 million workers their jobs, and cutting insured workers’ average annual incomes by $1,700.Fiscally, the growing cost of health care is poised to drive our federal budget over a cliff. A recent report
by the Senate Finance Committee found that by 2017, “health care expenditures are expected to consume nearly 20 percent of the GDP.” ….With smart, targeted policies, we can create a financially-viable health care system that enables workers
to change jobs without losing their care, and allows businesses to become more nimble. Health care costs will no longer stand in the way of their ability to retool for the 21st century.”
The American people are also coming around. In a new Quinnipiac poll, Americans were asked: “Do you support or oppose giving people the option of being covered by a government health insurance plan that would compete with private plans?”
The result: 69% support, 26% oppose.
That echoes findings in a CBS/NYT poll, which reports that “a clear majority of Americans — 72 percent — support a government-sponsored health care plan to compete with private insurers… Most also think the government would do a better job than private industry at keeping down costs and believe that the government should guarantee health care for all Americans.
Even a poll by the corporate-funded Employee Benefit Research Institute found strong support. In response to its question — “Do you strongly support, somewhat support, somewhat oppose, or strongly oppose … creating a new public health insurance plan that anyone can purchase?” — 83 percent strongly or somewhat supported that option.
The political fight is far from over. But a clear majority of the American people and increasing numbers in the business community — at least, those outside the health-care industry itself — are ready for dramatic change.
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211 comments Add your comment
FinnMcCool
July 2nd, 2009
7:59 am
That is change we can believe in!
I Report (-: You Whine )-:
July 2nd, 2009
8:02 am
Big business is bribed and on board, yay!
~~~~~
Stepping right into the Wooten’s shoes-
Consider also that electoral politics are practically written into the bill. The first year of cap and trade would be the presidential election year of 2012, when emissions would be limited to 97 percent of 2005 levels. So, not overly draconian while Barack Obama faces re-election. Democrats have also actually scheduled emissions increases in 2014, just in time for mid-term elections, and in 2016. Clearly, they are trying to limit cap and trade’s effect on the next few elections.-Kyle Wingnut, Urinal
FinnMcCool
July 2nd, 2009
8:04 am
Well, WalMart is doing it to make it tough on competitors. It’s self-serving interest much like Altria backing tobacco being moved to FDA oversight.
But, in both cases, it helps out the everyday American.
(I know Conservatives won’t like the idea of helping out the average American, but tough toenails.)
I Report (-: You Whine )-:
July 2nd, 2009
8:05 am
WHINER: I have nothing more to say to you
Promises, promises.
Jay
July 2nd, 2009
8:05 am
Whiner, you’re gone for the day at least. I have warned you repeatedly, and my patience is gone.
See ya.
(For the rest of you who may not know, it’s for his posts on earlier threads.)
TnGelding
July 2nd, 2009
8:11 am
I think both sides are overlooking the real problem, which is disease caused by unhealthy lifestyles and the tremendous burden the chronically ill put on the system.
The plan being put together by Democrats in Congress is just too complicated. They need to analyze who is uninsurd and why before trying to get them insured. In some cases being insured would prevent treatment. We don’t need health insurance, we need health care, and each individual needs to take responsiblity for their own.
It’s good to hear that most realize something needs to be done and don’t object to a government sponsored plan.
FinnMcCool
July 2nd, 2009
8:15 am
Going bck to that last topic:
You know it really is quite sad. The tough-talking Conservatives and NeoCons – tough on terror. “Let’s fight em over there so we don’t have to fight em over here.” “We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”
How did they end up getting them to stop shooting our troops? Payed them off. Bribery. If a liberal did that they would say: “typical liberal.”
Really, Conservatives are just a bunch of pansies. “Let’s pay em over there so we don’t have to fight them over here.”
Is there no end to Republican hypocrisy? They look at us and say “We don’t negotiate with the enemy” while handing a sack of cash to the enemy behind their backs.
Can’t Republicans just man up? Have they never heard the old Shakespeare line? “Oh what tangled webs we weave when first we practice to deceive.”
I don’t believe Democrats are any better than Republicans. But Democrats don’t claim the high ground and claim to be THE ONLY place for family values, etc etc. We know our XXXXX stinks…and we can live with that. Republican’s just can’t live with their personal smell.
Mrs. Godzilla
July 2nd, 2009
8:17 am
Confidence remains high!
RW-(the original)
July 2nd, 2009
8:18 am
But I’m sure all the left wing crap will continue unabated…..
I’ll take the day off , at least, too. Maybe one day this pitiful excuse for a newspaper will learn that silencing conservative voices while keeping an anything goes approach to the libs will kill it’s web site the same way it killed the print edition, but I doubt it.
He did IT
July 2nd, 2009
8:20 am
I like Wal-Mart’s prescription benefit program. Four bucks, four bucks, four bucks and I don’t even need an over-priced health insurance scam to get it. We need more Wal-Mart solutions like their prescription drug program (not that trash that Bush dumped on us to benefit the drug companies). After all, it is the American way. Of course, those in the health care industry that have been enriching themselves on the sicknesses of others probably are not too thrilled. But, you know what, in business there are also many sayings that sum up [over 80 percent of] most folk’s feelings regarding others that would gorge themselves at the trough of those most in need — screw ‘em.
FinnMcCool
July 2nd, 2009
8:21 am
TNGelding,
Good post. I think the problem is our system should be focused on prevention, not treatment. Are we way too involved in after-the-fact remedies that we don’t have the money(??) or the time(??) to focus on prevention?
Drug companies are focused on treatment, not prevention. Maybe there is no money in prevention? If people don’t get sick you don’t sell prescription drugs.
bob
July 2nd, 2009
8:23 am
If walmart wants it than it’s got to be good ! How many times does the left bash walmart and millionaires now they are both looked to for direction on healthcare.
He did IT
July 2nd, 2009
8:23 am
Bye Bye, RW. You’ll be missed.
Doggone/GA
July 2nd, 2009
8:24 am
“In some cases being insured would prevent treatment”
What evidence do you have for this? It seems counter-intuitive.
FinnMcCool
July 2nd, 2009
8:27 am
Conservatives who want to whine that government can’t do anything correctly and so health care shouldn’t be put in their hands: Anyone want to argue that employees in the private sector never get something wrong? They never foul something up? They are perfect every time, every day?
Governement employees run medicare and medicaid. Do your granparents hate those entities so much they’d rather do without them?
Government employees run the military. Are you against our troops? They run the police and fire departments. They fix the pot holes in your roads. They gather up your garbage.
Government employees inspect our food (they don’t catch everything but I have to think they catch most of it.)
Normal
July 2nd, 2009
8:28 am
Jay, I guess I’m confused. Whiner can be a pain, but as long as we aren’t using the seven deadly words, Let him say his thing and let him look foolish. Wasn’t it said “though I may disagree with what you say, I will defend to the death your right to say it? It’s your blog and you can do with it what you will, but I think we all have the right to say what we think, don’t you?…Just askin’…
DB, Gwinnettian
July 2nd, 2009
8:30 am
I’ll take the day off , at least, too.
Fight the power!
DB, Gwinnettian
July 2nd, 2009
8:36 am
I’ve no doubt that the public will was always there for a “public plan” (let’s not call it single-payer, I guess… not yet.)
It’s just that the pols weren’t willing to leave the campaign contribution trough and take on the entrenched interests. Maybe that tide’s finally turned. I certainly hope so–this issue has been front and center for me for about a decade.
Doggone/GA
July 2nd, 2009
8:38 am
“It’s your blog and you can do with it what you will, but I think we all have the right to say what we think, don’t you?”
No we don’t. “It’s your blog and you can do with it what you will” – that’s the last word. It’s Jay’s blog, he makes the rules.
He did IT
July 2nd, 2009
8:40 am
DB at 8:36. Perhaps big businesses like Wal-Mart and other end users of the healthcare industry (via benefits to employees in lieu of cash) are making bigger contributions to the politicians than those in the healthcare industry can afford to make at the moment.
Turd Ferguson
July 2nd, 2009
8:41 am
Just another debacle compliments of the US Govt. Hopefully the Congress stamp this healthcare BS, DOA.
Redneck Convert
July 2nd, 2009
8:42 am
Well, it’s just plain unAmerican to have guvmint run a health care plan. Where’s the profit in that? You got to have profit and big overhead or else you’re going against Private Innerprize. Besides, if guvmint runs a plan it will keep the insurance cos. from raising rates to make more profit because people will drop insurance co. plans and go to the guvmint plan. If that ain’t Commie, I don’t know what is.
Besides, I’d rather have an insurance co. decide what’s covered. If they do it, it’s just business. But if guvmint does it, why, that’s Rationing Care.
I’m all bumfuzzled by what Bookman says. Have a good day everybody.
Wyld Byll Hyltnyr
July 2nd, 2009
8:45 am
Jay, Jay, Jay, my dear, sweet, Democrat talking point regurgitating Jay.
Let us look rationally at this. Of course Walmart wants a public option, it will reduce Walmarts cost of doing business and do away with the unpleasant and time consuming nature of employee benefits.
Next, Bloomberg is a liberal in a very liberal city, of course he wants a public option.
Now onto the populace in general, the issue at hand is what is the full (cash and intangible cost) of a public option and the surveys you cite never addressed that. Everyone, apart from Rush, would support a public option if its “all in cost” were lower than private plans. That is the question that the survey responders thought they were answering.
The rub lies in the fact that Obumbler’s public option could only cost less than private plans, in light of its more comprehensive risk pool, through government subsidies and rationing of services, or some combination thereof. Just look at Obumbler’s boy, Daschle’s, recent quote, “…health-care reform will not be pain free. Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead of treating them.” Or, if you think that’s an outlier, the quote from one side of Obumbler’s faces, ” “Maybe you’re better off not having the surgery, but taking the painkiller.”
The reality is that the Obumbler public option will be heavily subsidized, greatly ration care, and ultimately, through lower cost via taxpayer subsidies, crowd all private plans out of the m,arket because, as with Walmart, it is easier and cheaper for business to use a public option.
FinnMcCool
July 2nd, 2009
8:47 am
I like the idea of using Wal-Mart in this case but I’m still not going to shop at Wal-Mart.
Anyone interested should watch the movie “The High Cost of Low Prices.” You may never shop there again either.
Here are some examples of how Wal-Mart uses tax dollars to “fill in” for their unwillingness to offer proper health care to employees:
ALABAMA: 3,864 Children of WAL-MART Employees are Enrolled in Medicaid
“Retail giant Wal-Mart tops the list of companies in Alabama whose employees have children on Medicaid, the [Montgomery] Advertiser reported, citing state records. Wal-Mart workers’ children account for 3,864 children on the Medicaid rolls at a cost between $5.8 million and $8.2 million.”
Source: Associated Press, “Wal-Mart No. 1 in Employee Medicaid,” The Decatur Daily, February 23, 2005
ARIZONA: 2,700 WAL-MART Workers on Medicaid
According to state data provided to Capitol Media Services and reported by the Arizona Daily Star, “Close to one of every 10 Wal-Mart employees is getting health insurance paid for by Arizona taxpayers, according to figures obtained Friday from the state…In the Arizona statistics, nearly 2,700 people listed their employer as Wal-Mart out of more than 28,000 company employees in the state…The numbers came as a surprise to state Sen. Richard Miranda, D-Phoenix, who tried earlier this year to get a law requiring the DES [Department of Economic Security] to disclose the employers of people on AHCCCS. That measure was defeated amid opposition from corporate lobbyists, including Rip Wilson representing Wal-Mart.”
Source: Howard Fischer, “Wal-Mart 1st in State Aid Enrollees,” Arizona Daily Star, July 30, 2005
http://www.walmartmovie.com/facts.php
FinnMcCool
July 2nd, 2009
8:49 am
Wild Bill,
Wal-Mart is already saving on healthcare by having taxpayers pay for the majority of their employees healthcare. That’s not why Wal-Mart is doing this.
Normal
July 2nd, 2009
8:50 am
Doggone, If I feel passionately about something we are talking about and I want to say something about it , but afreaid to for fear I’ll be censored, then why bother at all? The Moderator tell s us when we are out of order, isn’t that enough?
Paul
July 2nd, 2009
8:53 am
[[“94 percent of metropolitan areas in the United States are dominated by one company or a small group of companies.]]
There’s that “Free” market at work.
[[Americans were asked: “Do you support or oppose giving people the option of being covered by a government health insurance plan that would compete with private plans?”]]
Key word is ‘compete.’ Not ‘take over.’ Not ‘eliminate private plans.’ Not ‘mandate.” It’s ‘compete.’ I thought that is a free market tenet so many advocate? Or doesn’t it apply to gov’t?
[[Do you… support…creating a new public health insurance plan that anyone can purchase?]]
Again, it’s ‘can’ purchase. Not ‘must’ ‘have to’ or ‘mandatory.’ It’s ‘can.’
TNGelding
Saw a report this morning in the newspaper. In 31 states, more than 25 percent of adults are obese. In every state, the rate of obesity is higher among 55-64 year olds (the oldest baby boomers) than among those 65 and older.
Medicare spends anywhere for $1400 to $6000 more annually for EACH obese senior than for the non-obese.
Considering this country averages around $7000 per person on health care, that’s significant.
But it’s not going to change by just encouraging people to change. We’ve built an entire system of price payoffs to encourage production and distribution of low-cost, low-nutrient, high fat, high sugar ‘food’ that are more attractive to people with lower incomes. System’s gotta change.
Jay
July 2nd, 2009
8:53 am
Yes, Normal, you certainly do have the right to say what you think, and everybody’s input into blog management is welcome. You guys have ownership of this thing too. However, I also get repeated emails and comments on the street from people who tell me they come to the blog but are put off by the aggressive incivility they see here. They too have a voice that should be heeded.
I’m not trying to turn it into a Sunday School, and the idea that I’m trying to censor conservative views is ludicrous if you read this blog at all. Whiner’s posts are not conservative, they’re just unrelentingly mean and vicious, and if RW wants to embrace mean and vicious as somehow emblematic of conservatism, I will not.
Whiner has been warned repeatedly, most recently just a couple of days ago. He repeatedly proved unable to heed those warnings.
FinnMcCool
July 2nd, 2009
8:53 am
This is how you run a successful company: have your employees clock out after their 8 hour shift but demand that they keep working – off the clock.
In Texas it is estimated that they cheated workers out of up to one hundred and fifty million dollars in unpaid wages
“In a recently certified class-action suit in Texas on behalf of more than 200,000 current and former Wal-Mart workers, statisticians estimate that the company underpaid its Texas workers by $150 million over four years by not paying them for the many times they worked during their daily 15-minute breaks. That $150 million estimate does not include other types of unpaid work. The statisticians, who analyzed time records from 12 Wal-Mart stores, found that the Texas employees averaged at least one hour of unpaid work each week from working through breaks.”
Source: Steven Greenhouse, “Suits Say Wal-Mart Workers Forced To Toil Off The Clock,” New York Times, June 25, 2002 [reprinted via Common Dreams]
Wal-Mart Managers delete time from workers’ timecards
In Massachusetts, “a Middlesex court judge has put his imprimatur on a suit alleging the retail giant failed to pay employees for time worked and neglected to give them meal and rest breaks, the Herald has learned. The eight-page ruling by Superior Court Judge Ernest B. Murphy cites an affidavit by a computer expert hired by the plaintiffs. The expert allegedly found 7,000 instances during a one-year period when Wal-Mart managers deleted large blocks of time from their employee payroll records.”
Source: John Strahinich, “Judge OKs Employee Lawsuit Against Wal-Mart,” Boston Herald, January 7, 2005.
Meanwhile, in California, a class-action lawsuit potentially involving up to 215,000 current and former Wal-Mart and Sam’s Club employees “charges that Wal-Mart, based in Bentonville, Ark., deleted thousands of hours of time worked from employees’ payroll records by erasing overtime hours and by penalizing employees who forgot to punch in after their meal breaks by denying them pay for the remainder of those days.”
Source: “Alameda County Suit Alleges Wal-Mart Cheated Workers,” Bay City News, January 20, 2005.
Wal-Mart currently faces lawsuits in thirty-one different States for wage and hour abuses potentially involving hundreds of thousand workers.
He did IT
July 2nd, 2009
8:53 am
Well, a public plan will help to ensure that every American can get access to the most affordable basic care but this will not really hurt the insurance companies, given the current economic situation, any more than they are already hurting, at least in the short term (and short term is all any of these companies focus on anyway). People without jobs tend to give up the health insurance pretty quick and who benefits from that. For openers, the health insurance companies will probably, if not already, change their focus to providing bells and whistles policies to those people in the higher income jobs in order to help offset some of their losses. Then, there are all those soon to be sick people in the developing countries that are making all those lead-laden toys for our children, etc. Opportunities abound, especially for the unscrupulous.
Mort Merkel
July 2nd, 2009
8:54 am
There’s competition now, but it’s the procedures and drugs that cost out the ying-yang. Isn’t that why premiums are so high?
I met someone (an American) who had a major health event occur in Australia. The same care in the U.S. would’ve cost six figures easy. The guy’s total bill? Less than $5,000. Our system is broken. Will the government option bring prices down by being the “Wal-mart” of health care?
Paul
July 2nd, 2009
8:55 am
TNGelding
Foot-stomp this: that’s $1400-$6000 MORE. Not total annual health care costs. That’s added onto the average cost.
Curious Observer
July 2nd, 2009
8:55 am
Watch the insurance companies and its lackeys like Sen. Charles Grassley fight a public plan tooth and nail. These companies don’t want competition in the market place. Get prepared for a blizzard of Harry & Louise ads, together with warnings about government “inefficiency” and “taking away your choice.” The opponents of a public plan know that those campaign contributions will fade away if insurance companies are forced to compete and stop hand-selecting customers.
As a Medicare subscriber, I’ve been very impressed by how efficiently the program has handled claims. I haven’t had to deal with a private company that discovers, erroneously, that I have supplemental coverage that I don’t really have and thus holds up claims for months. I have a wide choice of care providers, and I’m not limited to the foreign doctors who eagerly sign on to private plans. It’s well past time that we ended the monopoly that insurance companies have held over health insurance coverage.
Hope&Change for Me and You
July 2nd, 2009
8:55 am
U.S. Employers Shed 467,000 Jobs in June!
Here’s your HOPE (hope I can keep my job) and CHANGE (changed from employed to unemployed)
Tax my business a little more and see how many more people I send to the unemployment line!
Jay
July 2nd, 2009
8:56 am
And Normal, passionate expression of beliefs is fine. Have at it. Passionate, incessant attacks on other people who hold contrary beliefs is not.
FinnMcCool
July 2nd, 2009
8:57 am
Normal, do you not undersand the difference between voicing an opinion and making personal attacks on people who don’t agree with your point of view?
Mrs. Godzilla
July 2nd, 2009
8:58 am
Normal
Say what you need to here, please!
I have never been banned, and I always say what I think needs to be said.
Admittedly I have had a couple two three posts pulled when I crossed the line, but Andy’s behavior has been a constant here for years and years…..funny about RW baling out too….
FinnMcCool
July 2nd, 2009
9:00 am
Curious, good point.
The healthcare industry has had years to put a war chest together to fight this fight. People have been talking about changing the system for years and they industry had to know that a Democrat would get into the white house again.
Money talks, and politicians listen. Prepare for the battle.
DB, Gwinnettian
July 2nd, 2009
9:01 am
Perhaps big businesses like Wal-Mart and other end users of the healthcare industry (via benefits to employees in lieu of cash) are making bigger contributions to the politicians than those in the healthcare industry can afford to make at the moment.
Sure. And this head-turning alignment of WallyWorld, SEIU and the Center for American progress could be something merely as quid-pro-quo-y as that.
However, I’d be guilty of naive cynicism if I were to presume that were the case, so I’ll be holding my fire for awhile.
Wyld Byll Hyltnyr
July 2nd, 2009
9:05 am
Curious Observer 8:55 am
I do not think any private insurance company would mind competing with a public option if that public option was not heavily subsidized by taxpayer dollars. The Obumbler plan will be heavily subsidized and the heavy weight of the government will be used to shift costs to others.
Finally, with respect to efficiency, please answer a hypothetical. You or a loved one is bitten by a poisonous snake and must have a certain antidote by 10:30 tomorrow morning. The sole source of the antidote is in LA. Would you ask that the antidote be shipped via the US Postal service’s overnight service or UPS. How will government run healthcare be any different from government run mail service?
He did IT
July 2nd, 2009
9:08 am
Tax my business a little more and see how many more people I send to the unemployment line!
It was taxes that sent all those others to the unemployment line. Riiiiight!
FinnMcCool
July 2nd, 2009
9:12 am
How to run a successful business part deux:
Wal-Mart is paying eleven million dollars to settle Federal allegations it used illegal immigrants to clean its stores.
http://www.walmartmovie.com/facts.php
He did IT
July 2nd, 2009
9:15 am
Finn,
Didn’t you hear. We made it illegal for illegal immigrants to clean stores, pick vegetables and fruit and nuts and onions, etc., make carpet, build houses, pour concrete, cut up chickens…
Doggone/GA
July 2nd, 2009
9:16 am
“Would you ask that the antidote be shipped via the US Postal service’s overnight service or UPS”
I wouldn’t care. I’ve gotten overnight service promptly and on time from both, but GENERALLY the USPS is cheaper.
He did IT
July 2nd, 2009
9:19 am
My insurance company does not cover package shipments.
Normal
July 2nd, 2009
9:20 am
OK Jay…You be the man…Just sayin’…
socialism is da BOMB
July 2nd, 2009
9:22 am
Just read where UN-employment just hit 26 year high 9.5%!! Heck of job in just 120 days Barry!! Oh,and by the way just to get a jump start on the left – It’s Bush’s FAULT!!!
rcs
July 2nd, 2009
9:23 am
I agree with Paul at 8:55. We have to start with prevention. Obesity in particular, leads to many other health problems. I for one need to shed 50 lbs and hope to do so by year’s end.
lovelyliz
July 2nd, 2009
9:23 am
Here’s the thing: the only people adamantly oppose to a public option are the health care insurance providers, big Pharma, neo-conservative and card carry, actual conservatives. Missing from this group are all the other big business interests. They have a good understanding of how much of a disadvavantage their burden of providing health insurance puts them in when competing with companies from other countries that have nationalized health insurance.
Kayaker 71
July 2nd, 2009
9:27 am
Bookman,
When you throttle dissent, you introduce a new element into debate. Whiner is certainly a thorn in the side of liberals but some of your liberal compadres are little better. You run a blog devoted to liberal discussion. You introduce threads which clearly show your bias. You introduce a topic, throw it onto the net and sit back and watch the fireworks. What do you expect from those who disagree with you? You rarely, if ever, have much of anything to say about the good that conservatism does for this country. You would think that everyone who does not follow the liberal party line is either misinformed, a wingnut, certainly a little crazy or illiterate. Case in point, Palin. I don’t think that there has been a candidate for major office in this country that has been so maligned, her family drug through the mud and who has been the victim of stupid, ignorant comments from liberals. You must have run at least 6 threads on this woman and are compliant in this fiasco. If you don’t want dissent, get out of the blogging business. Not all of us agree with you. Get over it!!
lovelyliz
July 2nd, 2009
9:27 am
We are talking about a public option costing bib, big $$$$$$, but in the end, it may very well cost us less than what we are spending now.
I would rather give my $$$ to a government bureaucrat than a health insurance bureaucrat who already tells me which doctor I can see, how often I can see that doctor, which hospitals I can go to, for which illnesses I can seek treatment, etc.
Normal
July 2nd, 2009
9:29 am
I’m one of those “older” Baby Boomers and I used to have six pack abs…but then, one day, all of a sudden, they started leakin’.Now I have pony keg abs…
————–
But seriously, I’m not obese, but I do qualify as over weight. I quit smoking three years ago and the trade off was weight gain. I’m in the gym now, not to get ripped, but just to try to lose a little weight and keep my heart (one size too big) healthy.
—————-
About public health care…If the elderly and young’uns can have complete coverage, then I’m all for it.
Wyld Byll Hyltnyr
July 2nd, 2009
9:29 am
lovelyliz 9:23 am
You forgot one group from your list of those who oppose Obumbler’s public option; persons who want timely access to the best possible healthcare for themselves and their loved ones.
Frankly, it is very surprising to me that the liberal sheople so vehemently support a public option when none of the details are known. That, in and of itself, is the definition of blind ideology.
Lester Burnham
July 2nd, 2009
9:30 am
What if the snake bite antidote were shipped by F-15?
DB, Gwinnettian
July 2nd, 2009
9:31 am
I was gonna leave this alone, but (sniff) Ah can’t quit you, RW…
I’ll take the day off , at least, too. Maybe one day this pitiful excuse for a newspaper will learn that silencing conservative voices while keeping an anything goes approach to the libs will kill it’s web site the same way it killed the print edition, but I doubt it.
For the record, Jay banned GodHatesTrash and Chad Harris for similarly bad behavior toward fellow commenters. These guys weren’t “conservative voices,” they were left-wing trolls, annoying ones. I never griped when Jay finally decided to stop cleaning up their messes, and you shouldn’t gripe when he bans a CommunistAJC or, potentially, a Whiner.
Moreover, guys like Whiner deserve whatever Jay–who is, by all accounts, about as patient as they come, suffering fools perhaps way too gladly–decides is just. Whiner wants to make each and every thread he enters About Him, and he’s just not that interesting a topic. I don’t know for sure, perhaps people who stumble into these threads after reading Jay’s blog posts for the first time find such stuff fascinating, but I’d wager most don’t.
Oh, and one other thing, mostly for Mrs. G–I got banned for a day, once, some months back. I recognized that I was behaving like a jerk and adjusted accordingly. It’s really not that much to ask.
Doggone/GA
July 2nd, 2009
9:32 am
“If you don’t want dissent, get out of the blogging business. Not all of us agree with you. Get over it!!”
If you don’t like how the blog is handled…no one is forcing you to come here. Jay’s blog, Jay’s rules.
DB, Gwinnettian
July 2nd, 2009
9:32 am
What if the snake bite antidote were shipped by F-15?
And what if they brought BEER?
Mrs. Godzilla
July 2nd, 2009
9:32 am
This tidbit from Think Progress makes me want to ask a question:
“Spending by lawmakers on taxpayer-financed trips abroad has risen sharply in recent years,” according to a Wall Street Journal analysis, “involving everything from war-zone visits to trips to exotic spots such as the Galápagos Islands.” This travel spending “is up almost tenfold since 1995, and has nearly tripled since 2001.”
Have any of those trips been to Germany, Sweden, Norway, Canada, Britain
or any other country with some form of National Healthcare?
I mean I understand the need to go to Argentina but really!
Wyld Byll Hyltnyr
July 2nd, 2009
9:32 am
Lester Burnham 9:30 am
Then the formulation of the hypthetical question would lose its insight and power.
FinnMcCool
July 2nd, 2009
9:33 am
wow, this is kinda cool. Check out the picture of the guy hitting the golf ball in his office.
http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/02/showcase-14/?hp
voyeurism
jconservative
July 2nd, 2009
9:35 am
Health care – hopefully a consensus will emerge from all the debate. As a country we do need to rein in the exploding cost of health care in this country. One problem – it is hard to debate when one side calls the other side names. This is Whiners real sin – he contributes nothing to the debate.
And speaking of unhealthy lifestyles – the USA still subsidizes sugar producers.
As a nation we lead the world in fat but subsidize sugar. Does this make any sense?
FinnMcCool
July 2nd, 2009
9:36 am
Wild Bill wrote: You forgot one group from your list of those who oppose Obumbler’s public option; persons who want timely access to the best possible healthcare for themselves and their loved ones.
You mean Canadians? I don’t think they’d be opposed. Certainly you don’t mean US healthcare? With the highest infant mortality rate in the western world?
Wyld Byll Hyltnyr
July 2nd, 2009
9:36 am
Ok liberal sheople, as you bleat and chatter about matters immaterial, why not answer a simple question.
Should Obumbler’s public option be subsidized by tax dollars or should it be required to be self sustaining through its operations?
lovelyliz
July 2nd, 2009
9:36 am
Life expectancy:
Japan (3) 82.07
France (8) 80.87
Canada (14) 80.34
Israel (19) 79.78
United States (45) 78.06
Albania (50) 77.6
Infant Mortality (per 1000 live births):
Estonia 7.2
United States 6.3
Cuba 5.1
Canada 4.8
How can this be acceptable?
AH
July 2nd, 2009
9:37 am
Remember folks you can only attack Republicans in the country now.
socialism is da BOMB
July 2nd, 2009
9:38 am
LovelyLiz “I would rather give my money to a government bureaucrat” Don’t you do that already to the tune of 28-31%,and they’ve done such a wonderfull job with those monies. The Goverment has prooved over and over again that they can’t run any form of business successfuly. We need to extract our collective heads from the holes in the sand.
Red Foreman
July 2nd, 2009
9:40 am
Hey Jay, lets talk about that 9.5% unemployment rate…”the highest on 26 years”
Hope and Change…BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
FinnMcCool
July 2nd, 2009
9:40 am
Why are you folks so worried about the costs? You don’t worry about the costs of maintaining a military or the cost of war.
We are talking about HEALTH. Isn’t health the puropse of all human endeavor? to extend a good, long life?
As important as health care is, let’s find a working solution first…we’ll find how to pay for it later. We always do.
Did you sit around and debate whether hunting Bin Laden would be a financially sound endeavor before we loaded up the troop carriers?
thomas
July 2nd, 2009
9:42 am
I thought we already had public health care—– the emergency room?
But seriously isn’t odd that bookman leaves out that through the creation of a Gov’t ran health group would FORCE millions to loose their coverage and have NO CHOICE but to take the gov’t health care.
Wake up people the politicians are not truely concerned for our well being they are only grasping for yet another way to impose control over our daily lives.
Why not go with the Mass. for of health care? They are nearly all covered and it is not the gov’t running things. I think Mitt Romney is slightly an elitist, but his idea seems to work. This is proof again that the new adminstration is no different than any others as they are more worried about making sure it is their idea and that they get the credit than really coming up with the best solution.
Also Bookman, looking back at past blogs of yours, it would appear that Whiner was attacked by as many posters as he attacked. So again that buldging biased of yours is showing again. Please spare us your rhetoric on how conservatives are valuable, because other than defending your actions I have never seen you praise anything conservative unless in a mocking fashion. Surprise you are just like the politicians you love so much, you do not care about being right or wrong you just want the credit. Sad sir very sad, that mirror must be a tough place to gaze at for you.
DB, Gwinnettian
July 2nd, 2009
9:42 am
How can this be acceptable?
Easy. you tell yourself that’s due to Those People.
Mrs. Godzilla
July 2nd, 2009
9:43 am
New Budget Estimate Of Public Plan Proves It Lowers Cost And Covers More Americans
here
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/07/01/new-cbo-score-health-care/
Confidence remains high!
He did IT
July 2nd, 2009
9:43 am
My health insurance used to cover 100 percent of my medical and dental needs and I did not pay anything out of pocket. Then, they separated the dental and started paying just the “reasonable and customary” portion of the dental expense. Then, they separated out the eyecare and eventually quit paying any of it but added in mental health coverage to compensate. A little later, all medical coverage that remained was subject to co-pays unless it was preventive care, which was not covered at all. A little later, I retired and had to start paying premiums in addition to the copays on the greatly reduced coverage. A little later, only I was partially subsidized and my spouse and other dependents had to pay the full premium in order to get coverage. Then, the copays went up and the doctors in the plan all quit speaking English. I had to enroll in night school to learn three new languages. (OK, so that one was an exaggeration but just barely. Have you ever tried to ‘communicate’ with a doctor from India! I’ve had an easier time communicating with the illegal immigrants from Mexico and I don’t know any Spanish but I do digress substantively here.) Anyway, then my insurance started to get greatly enhanced. In the past few years, in addition to copays and coverage only for things that I don’t use (although the mental health benefit is looking deceptively better with each passing day), I have even higher premiums and coverage of only sixty percent of the tab and a maximum lifetime benefit to boot. Life is too short for this sort of crap. This system that we have has nothing whatsoever to do with providing care for those in need at an affordable price. But, hey, we do have a public prescription drug benefit that only costs us hundreds of billions of dollars in extra taxes to cover all those name brand drugs that Wal-Mart cannot offer for four bucks. Well, that’s enough on that. Now, whatever you do, don’t ask me about private insurance policies. I might just have to hurt you with all sorts of foul language with a lot of it directed at World Insurance Company out of Omaha. Add them to your list of companies to never do business with. Aside from that, don’t fix what ain’t broke. That’s my motto.
thomas
July 2nd, 2009
9:45 am
FinnMcCool,
So should the gov’t also be in charge of food and farming.
I’m just saying one would think that eating is far more important than health care, especially since if you don’t eat then you usually get ill.
So are you also saying that you think we should start paying for everyone’s food each week and not worry about a cost, just figure it out later.
Wow mighty well-fare state of you.
Paul
July 2nd, 2009
9:45 am
rcs
I’ve a neighbor who’s lost nearly 30 lbs in less than a year. He wasn’t obese, just had grown over the years.
He began by walking about 20 minutes. Now he walks 30 minutes about five times a week. He said he also changed his eating habits. Initially all he said was more fresh fruits and veges. A few days ago he said he has desserts once a week, doesn’t eat in restaurants hardly at all (altho many have items that would work), cut out the fried foods and fat.
Come to think of it, that’s what we usually hear. A friend with us had lost 50, gained back 25. Said that was pretty much how he lost it, then stopped and gained it back. His goal is to lose a few so he can stop paying for blood pressure meds.
good luck.
Normal
Seemed like all of a sudden for me, too. Then I realized, the older I got, the faster time went. I realized it was a change in lifestyle – new job, long hours, sedentary – and the change was so gradual it wasn’t apparent. Kinda like watching your kids grow and know something’s changing but it happens so slowly it’s not apparent.
I know what I gotta do. Else it goes from a bit over, to lots over, to way over. Recognizing it is the first step, isn’t it?
Doggone/GA
July 2nd, 2009
9:46 am
“Should Obumbler’s public option be subsidized by tax dollars or should it be required to be self sustaining through its operations?”
It should be subsidized for those low enough on the economic scale as to make it impossible for them to pay full premiums. Remember, all investements are expenses until they begin to pay off.
socialism is da BOMB
July 2nd, 2009
9:47 am
FinnMcCool Point#1-yes the cost of the war has been part of the debate. Point#2 -yes,simple answer to an obvious question. Point#3- Yes we always do,it’s called more/bigger taxation. Point#4- yes,see point#1
Doggone/GA
July 2nd, 2009
9:47 am
“But seriously isn’t odd that bookman leaves out that through the creation of a Gov’t ran health group would FORCE millions to loose their coverage and have NO CHOICE but to take the gov’t health care.”
Proof please.
FinnMcCool
July 2nd, 2009
9:48 am
Liz, I like what you’re saying but please post your sources.
Socialism is da bomb wrote: and they’ve done such a wonderfull job with those monies. The Goverment has prooved over and over again that they can’t run any form of business successfuly.
You don’t support our troops? They’re goverment employees. You like to eat meat? Government employees are checking to make sure you are eating safe food.
Please show me proof, any proof, that private sector employees never screw up. Show us proof that they do everything efficiently.
You see, “Govmint is bad” is just an easy cop-out talking point.
EVERYONE is for small government….as long as you are cutting the services they don’t personally use.
lovelyliz
July 2nd, 2009
9:50 am
Total Health Expenditures Per Capita 2003:
Australia $2,886
Austria $,958
Belgium $3,044
Canada $2,998
Denmark $2,743
Finland $2,104
France $3,048
Iceland $3,159
Ireland $2,455
Italy $2,314
Japan $2,249
Luxembourg $4,611
Netherlands $2,909
Norway $3,769
Sweden $2,745
Switzerland $3,847
United Kingdom $2,317
United States $5,711
I am not saying that we don’t have some of the best healthcare that $$$ can buy, but what good is that if your private health insurance company won’t let you buy it and doing it on your own drives you into bankruptcy?
Paul
July 2nd, 2009
9:50 am
[[“Should Obumbler’s public option be subsidized by tax dollars or should it be required to be self sustaining through its operations?”]]
Sure it should. It would put a public option on a more equal footing with a private option. After all, the government can’t give tax deductions and tax breaks to a public entity!
Doggone/GA
July 2nd, 2009
9:50 am
“I am not saying that we don’t have some of the best healthcare that $$$ can buy, but what good is that if your private health insurance company won’t let you buy it and doing it on your own drives you into bankruptcy?”
Or you just plain don’t have the money to buy it in the first place.
mm
July 2nd, 2009
9:51 am
“Frankly, it is very surprising to me that the liberal sheople so vehemently support a public option when none of the details are known. That, in and of itself, is the definition of blind ideology.”
Wyld Byll,
If the details are not known, why are you against public healthcare? Blind ideology indeed!!!
If everyone in this country new the obscene profits being made by the Pharma companies and insurance companies, they would blow a gasket.
While the Dems are all over the place on this one, we continue to see the lockstep republicans obstruct.
FinnMcCool
July 2nd, 2009
9:52 am
thomas,
You ever heard of the FDA? Food inspectors? Government employees, dude. We are already paying for it.
lovelyliz
July 2nd, 2009
9:54 am
Google it, but in the mean time:
CIA World Factbook
United Nations
jconservative
July 2nd, 2009
9:55 am
Go online & read 10Ks at the SEC. Looking closely you will realize that businesses with a lot of personnel might prefer a halt to the rising cost of
health care even if it meant a tax increase to get the relief on health cost. The alternative is to drastically cut back on medical benefits for employees. (Which some are already doing.)
Normal
July 2nd, 2009
9:56 am
Paul, Yes the first step is to recognize the problem, but the making it happen is step two. As I’m improving in the gym, the length of time it takes me to reach the Preferred heart rate gets longer and longer. This good, I know, but I have to fight myself to keep going, but once I’m there my body seems to settle down and get with the program. It’s the gettin’ there that will kill you…Just sayin’
AmVet
July 2nd, 2009
9:56 am
A delightful good morning all.
A very deserved banishment and another self-imposed (albeit a one day version supposedly) swan song? Alas my poor misunderstood conservative colleagues…
“…if that public option was not heavily subsidized by taxpayer dollars.”
Byll, are you seriously contending that private options are NOT heavily subsidized by our dollars too???
At numerous levels and to the tune of BIG dollars?
Paul
July 2nd, 2009
9:56 am
lovelyliz
Yesterday, one of Thomas Sowell’s columns was the topic. Today, I opened my paper and there was another of his columns, this time on cost of health care. Didn’t sound like the same writer. This column made some sense.
Point was, health care costs more in the US and we get what we pay for. Our cost per person is higher, in part, because we have more advanced, more expensive diagnostic and treatment options than other countries. CATs and MRIs and all that other stuff costs $$$$.. Of course, anything can be over done. But he has a point to consider when discussing comparative costs.
http://article.nationalreview.com/print/?q=YmQ0N2M1YzA4MzUwYWQ0ZTE2NjBkMjM1MzZiZjllYzQ=
socialism is da BOMB
July 2nd, 2009
9:57 am
FinnMcCool I understand your point,hopefully u understand mine.Based on your statements it does’nt sound your for smaller governmnt though. I can show you thousands of profitable companies (and yes thousands of failed companies),but tell me when the government was last profitable? No, balance of the budget does’nt count as profitable.
Paul
July 2nd, 2009
10:00 am
G’morning, AmVet
I’ve a followup to last night downstairs at 8:37 am. About how we didn’t have to invade Afghanistan and how those factors could affect our strategy now. Also distinguishes between Taliban and al Qaeda, nouns which many people treat as meaning the same thing. They don’t.
Normal
Thanks for the inspiration. Maybe now I’ll stop making excuses and use that gym membership I’ve been paying for! What good’s working for stuff if I’m not around to enjoy it?
Paul
July 2nd, 2009
10:01 am
Normal
And, kudos to @@ and RW-(the original). Those two often say ’see ya later, gotta go exercise.”
Good examples should be commended.
DB, Gwinnettian
July 2nd, 2009
10:01 am
tell me when the government was last profitable?
They’re not in the profit business.
Later, all. Be excellent to one another. Try not to drop anyone’s coverage.
Northern Songs, Ltd.
July 2nd, 2009
10:02 am
Anyone notice the much less antagonistic tone of the posts today? hmmmm…..
getalife
July 2nd, 2009
10:03 am
I have spent time in surgery , ICU and recovery in hospitals.
There was nothing wrong with the health care system.
Until I got the bills.
The public option to compete to lower these bills is a no brainer.
lovelyliz
July 2nd, 2009
10:04 am
But Paul, what good does it do you when you can’t afford the private health care policy, let alone pay for the best care in the world? Then there are the folks who have health insurance, but some health insurance bureaucrat telling them no.
How else would you explain the rise in medical tourism?
md
July 2nd, 2009
10:05 am
Does healthcare need a make-over. You bet. Do we need uncle sugar to do it, doubtful. This is why one sided gov’t doesn’t work. Lack of debate and compromise leaves out too many good ideas.
Instead we are talking about paying for healthcare for those that sit on their butts eating potato chips and cheese dip while waiting for the mailman to arrive with their “paycheck”.
Beautiful.
Pennsylvanian
July 2nd, 2009
10:07 am
Health care is not an enumerated right under the US constitution. The right to bear arms is. If we subsidize health care, shall we also subsidize a firearm for everyone wanting one, but unable to pay retail?
Paul
July 2nd, 2009
10:08 am
loveyliz
I’ve been a strong advocate for reform. Having a hodgepodge system of benefits largely dependent upon nothing other than who you happen to work for strikes me as nuts.
Those are all problems. They all impact the need for reform. I believe Sowell’s point was, of course it costs more here. We have more good diagnostic and treatment tools per person than other countries.
But just explaining one aspect of why costs are higher doesn’t fix the problems you cited. That’s why we’re having the debate.
And if Congress doesn’t offer anything up, then they haven’t fixed anything and the problems will continue.
And in 2010 many more will be voting for Anybody But the Incumbent.
mm
July 2nd, 2009
10:09 am
Socialism,
“but tell me when the government was last profitable?”
Now you’re starting to get it. Which would be cheaper? Healthcare managed by a “for profit” insurance company or healthcare managed by a “not for profit” government agency.
The wingnut lie about the public option being more expensive is a load of crap.
TW
July 2nd, 2009
10:10 am
getalife – yes, the bill is something else. Got an ER bill for a CAT that was $4k – must’ve been a heck of a shot.
Agree, the only flaws with the healthcare are the bills, and perhaps the average wait at the ER.
And perhaps adding 50 mil to the waiting line might increase this challenge, perhaps the savings in cost will allow the challenge to be met?
Are the socialist screamers also for dumping their SS and medicare?
Nice blog on here today.
Lord Help Us
July 2nd, 2009
10:11 am
Ahhhh….
I am reminded of a scene from an under-appreciated movie, NightShift.
Michael Keaton’s character is complaining about being BANNED from a casino for ‘being too good.’ (substitute, ‘for being too conservative’ for purposes of this analogy).
I am paraphrasing, but he says he was down a few thousand and started thinking the dealer was dealing off the bottom of the deck…so, he starts a big ruckus and gets thrown out…’for being too good.’
‘I know…feed the tuna mayonnaise and then we won’t have to mix it in…call Starkist…’
Normal
July 2nd, 2009
10:12 am
Top o’ the morning to you AM Vet…glad you could be here…It’s boring without Brutus…haha.
mm
July 2nd, 2009
10:13 am
Yep, cue the losers who want to blame the poor for all our problems.
pat
July 2nd, 2009
10:13 am
So this is strait from the poll:
From June 23 – 29, Quinnipiac University surveyed 3,063 registered voters nationwide with a margin of error of +/- 1.8 percentage points.
The Quinnipiac University Poll, directed by Douglas Schwartz, Ph.D., conducts public opinion surveys in Pennsylvania, New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Florida, Ohio and the nation as a public service and for research. For more data or RSS feed – http://www.quinnipiac.edu/polling.xml, or call (203) 582-5201.
Pennsylvania, New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Florida, Ohio? Only three thousand people?
This is paltry and pathetic atttempt to spin. I am embarassed for you… So what if we did the poll in Texas, Georgia, South Carolina and North Carolina. What do think the result would then be? That’s right the exact opposite.
How terribly sad and pathetic you are.
He did IT
July 2nd, 2009
10:14 am
If you join the military, you get a ‘free’ firearm, subsidized by the taxpayer.
Doggone/GA
July 2nd, 2009
10:14 am
“Health care is not an enumerated right under the US constitution.”
“promote the general welfare” – from the Preamble, just in case you don’t know where to find it.
You are right, healthcare is not “enumerated”…but then neither is drug safety, highway safety, food safety, job safety, etc, etc, etc…but government still GOVERNS those.
Healthcare is, in a manner of speaking, an investment in our “human infrastructure” – healthier people can work and contribute to society by paying their taxes.
Mrs. Godzilla
July 2nd, 2009
10:14 am
with whiner gone….will a number of the pop up neo cons be gone as well?
as jay has told us, there are folks here who post under multiple
names… just saying’
Paul
July 2nd, 2009
10:14 am
Pennsylvanian
Surely you know what “infringed” means? Doesn’t mean ‘provided.’
The Constitution doesn’t provide for oversight for food safety. Shall we dump that? Doesn’t provide for k-12 education. Dump that, too?
Times change.
BTW, when’s your militia going to deploy to Afghanistan? You know, ‘well regulated militia, members and people having the right to keep and bear arms” and all that –
He did IT
July 2nd, 2009
10:16 am
Actually, we feed the tuna a healthy dose of mercury, not mayo.
IC Atlanta
July 2nd, 2009
10:16 am
I don’t care what they want – over and over again around the world it is proven that government run health care does not work. See England and Canada for results. If you myrmidons get this you will be the first ones whining about the long lines and waits or your older relatives being denied service.
This is not liberty, freedom or independence – it is about total control over you. For all the sad sacks who support government mandated run health care do the rest of us a favor and move to Canada, England or Cuba you can get your govt run health care all day long.
Support builds for public option in health insurance game | Jay … - Health Web Blog
July 2nd, 2009
10:18 am
[...] Responses to “Support builds for public option in health insurance game | Jay …” Comment Form …Support builds for public option in health insurance game | Jay …by JayMichael Bloomberg, the self-made billionaire and one of the 20 richest people on the planet, [...]
Mrs. Godzilla
July 2nd, 2009
10:18 am
Pennsylvanian
Please inform us as to which well regulated miltia you belong to and thrill us with stories of your deployment!!!
socialism is da BOMB
July 2nd, 2009
10:19 am
MM & Doggone No I don’t get it. Ok granted the government is a non-profit organization,but it also should’nt be a sink hole for tax dollars. I guess what I meant to say was I don’t trust the goevernment to run a health care system properly when they’ve failed to do so in countless of other area’s.
He did IT
July 2nd, 2009
10:19 am
…as jay has told us, there are folks here who post under multiple
names… just saying’…
I resemble that statement but I am not a neo-con.
getalife
July 2nd, 2009
10:19 am
TW,
I know, I use to get 2 cats a month, now per year. Had many tests run but the real cost is surgery and ICU.
For those who oppose this public option, you will get medical bills down the road. Like paying taxes.
They are very high.
Just sayin.
Mrs. Godzilla
July 2nd, 2009
10:21 am
IC
Actually all those English and Canadians LOVE there health care!
AmVet
July 2nd, 2009
10:22 am
SOCIALISM!
For over 200 years Uncle Sam has tried like hell to stay out of private enterprise. And there was a time when it worked well. That time passed along time ago. When robber barons and corporate thugs would not act conscionably. To wit, child labor exploitation and endless work weeks with non-commensurate pay as two of many egregious offenses.
But sadly things were to get much worse in this country vis a vis these titans of industry. Manufacturers, including those of automobiles, made unsafe, sometimes lethal, products with impunity. And only men like Ralph Nader held their feet to the fire and along with government intervention, forced them to change. They would not have otherwise, likely even today.
Industry after industry after industry and within them big corporation after big corporation after big corporation has acted recklessly and with only their narrow interests and avarice in mind. Often killing, maiming and poisoning tens of thousands people without consequence or justice.
THAT is why we have an EPA. That is why we have a CPSC. That is why we have federal oversight (supposedly) of the crooks and thieves on Wall Street and Main Street.
As most know, the “faithful” hate this of course. They prefer quasi-open and legal looting of the American people.
The health prevention industry of giant HMOs, Aetna’s and big pharma, among numerous other corrupt and inept subsidized players, have also clearly demonstrated they cannot be trusted to do the right thing by the American people.
20,000 Americans die every year needlessly because they are not profitable enough.
And this legislation does not go NEARLY far enough in my opinion to resolve this systematic malfeasance…
He did IT
July 2nd, 2009
10:22 am
I know, I use to get 2 cats a month, now per year
Well, the CAT food cost alone should be enough to make one reconsider that lifestyle.
md
July 2nd, 2009
10:23 am
“Yep, cue the losers who want to blame the poor for all our problems.”
As opposed to being an enabler?
You do know that many poor at that way by choice, don’t you?
So for motivation, you advocate enabling them with even more handouts?
There are those that “can’t” help themselves and then there are those that “won’t” help themselves, and the ones that “can’t” would give anything to be in the shoes of the ones that “won’t”.
Doggone/GA
July 2nd, 2009
10:24 am
Paul,
“Doesn’t provide for k-12 education. Dump that, too?”
Strictly speaking, education is a states affair and the national governement is not even supposed to be involved. How they GOT (and GET) involved is by saying to states: “if you follow we’ll give you amount of money”…and the states lap it up.
pat
July 2nd, 2009
10:25 am
Total Respondents 895
Total Republicans 284 211 (24%)
Total Democrats 301 339 (38%)
Total Independents 310 345 (38%)
Those with health coverage 821 735
Total Respondents 895? That’s it, presumably in the New York area since it is the NY Times?
You are going to expound the veiw of 895 people in a small area to 300,000,000? More than 895 went to the Braves game in the ‘70 and ’80’s would you believe a poll conducted there?
You have really got to stop believing everything people tell you to, it make you look foolish.
Jay, stop publishing your sources, it discredits everything you say because the facts are not on your side.
Doggone/GA
July 2nd, 2009
10:26 am
“government run health care does not work”
And no one is seriously proposing “government run” healthcare. What is being proposed and discussed is government PROVIDED health insurance – not the same thing at all. Please try to keep up.
Doggone/GA
July 2nd, 2009
10:27 am
“I don’t trust the goevernment to run a health care system properly ”
You should be good with it then…because no one is proposing the government “run a health care system” – see above. What is proposed is government provided health INSURANCE as an alternative to commericially provided insurance options. Can you try to keep up, too?
He did IT
July 2nd, 2009
10:28 am
You do know that many poor at that way by choice, don’t you?
And, you do know that many are not, don’t you? Of course, neither statement makes a good basis for argument, don’t you agree.
mm
July 2nd, 2009
10:30 am
Why don’t you “conservatives” admit that insurance companies make more profit by denying coverage to people who pay their premiums but just happen to get sick. Talk about someone picking and choosing who gets treatment.
Doggone/GA
July 2nd, 2009
10:31 am
“You are going to expound the veiw of 895 people in a small area to 300,000,000?”
Yes. It’s “extrapolation” and ALL POLLS to it. It’s scientifically proven concept that eliminates the need to poll EVERYONE, which is unfeasable. Can we expect that YOU will NEVER cite a poll of any kind, ever?
Paul
July 2nd, 2009
10:31 am
Doggone/GA 10:24
True enough, but many of the conservative bent say ‘government’s government.”
But, hey, I’m in favor of a national system of teacher certification, pay, assignment, construction costs, with some local control so a kid, say, in backwater Georgia has the same chance at good facilities and textbooks and teachers as say, a kid in Nancy Pelosi’s district. And saving gazillions by each school board paying bureaucrats to duplicate efforts for hiring, pay, administrative, etc etc ad infinitum ad nauseum.
But I’m just an ultraneoconrightwingfanatic, so you can pretty much ignore that opinion!
eddie haskell
July 2nd, 2009
10:31 am
wonder what whiners doing?
Paul
July 2nd, 2009
10:32 am
DoggoneGA
sigh. That’s “and saving gazillions by ELIMINATING bureaucrats at each school board…”
TW
July 2nd, 2009
10:32 am
md – and if they choose to be that way, and our present system of dealing with them (enabling you call it) is breaking our backs, we shouldn’t change the way they are dealth with them?
If you are advocating barring them from care, then say so. While this is not what I would choose, it would perhaps help with costs. Is that what you are proposing? A card reader at the entrance to every emergency room, and a card number to be read after calling 911?
DebbieDoRight
July 2nd, 2009
10:33 am
Not being too cynical here, but WalMart, infamous for not providing affordable healthcare for its own low to mid range employees; would NATURALLY support anything that’d take the impetus off of them!!
But hey, at least WalMart showed that competition on prescription drugs CAN be done effectively. When they came out with the $4 prescription program, lo and behold EVERYONE decided that they could too!! Before WalMart did that, we were all paying 3x’s more for drugs unnecessarily. Competition does work!!
fred
July 2nd, 2009
10:33 am
If you would like to help pressure Congress to pass single payer health care please join our voting bloc at:
http://www.votingbloc.org/Health_Bloc.php
IC Atlanta
July 2nd, 2009
10:34 am
Government competing with the private sector is going to be government run health care – put on your thinking cap man. Why in the heck do you people want to have someone control your health care? Are you just little children who have never grown up waiting for mommy and daddy in DC to take care of you?
I would gladly give up social security and medicare if I didn’t have to pay into the system. Regardless it won’t be around when I am 65.
Why is it that the left wants the government to control everything in their life except sex?
getalife
July 2nd, 2009
10:35 am
Well, the ones posting today are not one of Andy’s characters.
Doggone/GA
July 2nd, 2009
10:35 am
“But, hey, I’m in favor of a national system of teacher certification, pay, assignment, construction costs, with some local control so a kid, say, in backwater Georgia has the same chance at good facilities and textbooks and teachers as say, a kid in Nancy Pelosi’s district. And saving gazillions by each school board paying bureaucrats to duplicate efforts for hiring, pay, administrative, etc etc ad infinitum ad nauseum”
There is certainly an argument to be made for that, in this day and age. We just don’t live in the “localized” world that existed when the Constitution was written. Opportunities abound, and people should be able to expect an education that gives them a good chance at those opportunities. And business should be able to expect that people applying for jobs have had a sound, basic education…which, actually more and more, now means an education through college.
A better educated (and healthier!) population is a better base for consumer spending AND tax paying than is an ignorant, unhealthy population. Too bad there are too many self-interested people who can’t see that more long-term benefit.
Paul
July 2nd, 2009
10:36 am
IC Atlanta
I didn’t ask for an assertion of what would be. I asked for a definition of ‘government-run health care’.
Out for a while -
FinnMcCool
July 2nd, 2009
10:36 am
Paul wrote: We have more good diagnostic and treatment tools per person than other countries.
So, other countries can’t buy those same tools?
That’s not the reason it’s more expensive here. It’s more expensive because the system is screwed up. Providers pay off those fancy tools and equipment by charging a per-use fee to insurance providers or end-users. So, maybe you don’t really need that Catscan but the doctor wants to pay off that machine as quickly as possible so he suggests you get one anyway. It’s more than just that – the system is screwed up.
You have to also take into account things like the hairbrain-ed idea Phil Gramm and Co forced on us when they made it so medicare/medicaid couldn’t haggle on drug prices.
AmVet
July 2nd, 2009
10:38 am
fred, thank you. Done and done.
Doggone/GA
July 2nd, 2009
10:38 am
“sigh. That’s “and saving gazillions by ELIMINATING bureaucrats at each school board…”
I knew what you meant! But I’m not sure that kind of savings can be realized. Even though I agree that schooling should be more uniform…though I am not a fan of “teaching to the test”…there are still, and always, going to be local conditions that need to be dealt with locally.
socialism is da BOMB
July 2nd, 2009
10:39 am
AmVet “industry after industry have acted recklessly” I agree,But you have to admit the Govenmt’s track record is no better! In your opinion which is better and less intrusive into yours and my wallets?
Doggone/GA
July 2nd, 2009
10:39 am
“Why in the heck do you people want to have someone control your health care?”
“someone” already does…they’re called “Insurance Companies”
Wyld Byll Hyltnyr
July 2nd, 2009
10:39 am
mm 9:51 am
You write, “If the details are not known, why are you against public healthcare? Blind ideology indeed!!!”
But that’s just nopt true. Please read my 8:45 am post that states, “Everyone, apart from Rush, would support a public option if its “all in cost” were lower than private plans.” I, in this instance, count myself among “everyone.”
I am; however; against a taxpayer subsidized public option that would, inexorably, result in removing private insurers from the markplace.
“Blind ideology indeed!!!” from O’l Wyld Byll, hardly. More like the informed decision making that is lacking from the Obumbler camp.
Pennsylvanian
July 2nd, 2009
10:43 am
Mrs. G. – You must have missed it. The US Supreme court upheld that the right to bear arms is an individual right. Belonging to a militia is not required. And last I heard, troops still have to turn in their Gov’t issued firearms when they muster out. You guys are funny today. I’m reading hr2454. What a hoot. Get a copy and check it out. Any bill on energy that takes 1500 pages is hiding some really good perks for somebody. You want this same crowd running health care?
Normal
July 2nd, 2009
10:44 am
PAT: I remember those games. You never wanted to walk around Fulton County Stadium when the Braves were playing. Someone would jump out of the bushes and force you to go to the game at gun point…It was terrible…
He did IT
July 2nd, 2009
10:44 am
The only so-called informed decision making we get from private health insurance providers is “how do we continue to post a 20+ percent increase in profits indefinitely.
FinnMcCool
July 2nd, 2009
10:44 am
You folks buying prescriptions at Wal-Mart, do you know where those $4 prescription drugs were actually produced?
Everything else in the place is made in China, is all I’m sayin’
Jake
July 2nd, 2009
10:46 am
Dog, Am, Mrs. G et al – Can any of you give me an example of a “well managed public plan”? You know, like social security ponzi plan, or Medicare, Medicaid, or how about those groovy VA hospitals. Public education has been such an overwhelming success story the last 30 years that I can’t wait for Big Brother to take over health care too. Fortunately, global warming will improve Canada’s climate making it a very attractive place to live out my retirement.
DebbieDoRight
July 2nd, 2009
10:47 am
Besides, I’d rather have an insurance co. decide what’s covered. If they do it, it’s just business. But if guvmint does it, why, that’s Rationing Care.
Ah Redneck……..You’re my hero!!!!
getalife
July 2nd, 2009
10:47 am
“I am; however; against a taxpayer subsidized public option that would, inexorably, result in removing private insurers from the markplace.”
That is a con fear card talking point so I know why byll bought it.
Blind ideology byll.
Like the other welfare argument.
Siily cons want to pay more for health care because of ideology.
Think about that cons, if you can.
lovelyliz
July 2nd, 2009
10:47 am
socialism is da BOMB
If the government can do it better and cheaper, then why not? It’s not like private insurance would go away. Just lok at coutries that have single payer service. Nothing negates you from buying a private plan. The private insurance companies don’t want the competition.
Doggone/GA
July 2nd, 2009
10:48 am
“But you have to admit the Govenmt’s track record is no better! ”
No, it doesn’t have to be “admitted” – the government does quite a good job running quite a few things…as has already been pointed out. And YOU have to “admit” that private companies can screw up pretty badly TOO.
getalife
July 2nd, 2009
10:50 am
“The private insurance companies don’t want the competition.”
Exactly.
Normal
July 2nd, 2009
10:51 am
Finn And Miz G, just saw your 8:57 and 8:58. I do know the difference but always thought of Brutus as a gas passer, nothing more.
————
Miz G: I do try, but I’m never as eloquent as you…;>)
Copyleft
July 2nd, 2009
10:52 am
Support for a pubic healthcare system has always been strong–not just here, but around the world, as you can see from the fact that every other industralized nation on earth has it.
So much for the argument that “It can’t possibly work! It’s failed every time it’s been tried!” In fact, the opposite is true; it’s WORKED everywhere it’s been implemented.
The only problem in this trend is that too many Congresspeople are subordinate to corporate lobbyists who want to take the best solution–single-payer–”off the table” and refuse to even discuss it.
Fred
July 2nd, 2009
10:52 am
Compete with the government? How so? How does one compete with the government when they can undercut market prices and tax at will? Why are you lemmings so willing to hand over all your personal freedoms? What are you scared of? Having to make choices? Having to fend for yourself? The business boogey man? You dimwits are scary stupid and gonna ruin this place. Damm you sob’s.
Who coined the term capitalism? Hah Ms Gawdawful?
Normal
July 2nd, 2009
10:52 am
Fred, Just joined too…Thanks!
socialism is da BOMB
July 2nd, 2009
10:52 am
Lovelyliz Nice thought,but since when has the governmnt ever done anything better or cheaper? projections are just that,and have rarely ever been met by the Governmnt.
Doggone/GA
July 2nd, 2009
10:53 am
“I am; however; against a taxpayer subsidized public option that would, inexorably, result in removing private insurers from the markplace.”
I would agree…IF the government tried to mandate the elimination of private companies…BUT, if the government option OUT COMPETES the private companies and they are not willing to change to meet that new competition, well…that’s how business works.
Based on what I’ve read here, so far, NO ONE but ME seems to have realized that the whole argument would end up in a ditch IF the private insurance companies would ante-up an option that would cover EVERYONE at a fair and reasonable cost. If that would happen, there would be no need to even discuss a public option. There might still be a need for the government to subsidize the premiums for the disadvantaged, but that’s a different discussion.
If private insurers would provide insurance coverage for everyone…we wouldn’t need a public option. They won’t, so we need one – to compete against them, for something they DON’T PROVIDE anyway.
getalife
July 2nd, 2009
10:53 am
Jake,
Canada is great.
Just saying.
md
July 2nd, 2009
10:53 am
“And, you do know that many are not, don’t you? Of course, neither statement makes a good basis for argument, don’t you agree.”
Most all can agree that the ones that “are not” should get some assistance, for they more than likely want to provide for themselves.
Not the case with the ones being enabled.
TW, “md – and if they choose to be that way, and our present system of dealing with them (enabling you call it) is breaking our backs, we shouldn’t change the way they are dealth with them?
If you are advocating barring them from care, then say so. While this is not what I would choose, it would perhaps help with costs. Is that what you are proposing? A card reader at the entrance to every emergency room, and a card number to be read after calling 911?”
Hand-up vs hand-out.
We already provide a “free” gov’t run education system. Many of these folks choose to opt out of that system and then expect others to dole out more money (enable) for their existence.
They want help – fine, but then they will also “choose” to re-enter the education system for their benefit and that of socities’ over the long term.
Enabling them is an injustice to all.
Doggone/GA
July 2nd, 2009
10:54 am
“You folks buying prescriptions at Wal-Mart, do you know where those $4 prescription drugs were actually produced?”
Do YOU know where the $100 medicines are produced? Try China again.
AmVet
July 2nd, 2009
10:54 am
socialism is da BOMB, or whatever you nom de guerre will be tomorrow,
First, I own my own company. I am pro-business and pro-capitalism. I owe this great land every thing I have. Even my life. And I will serve her to the best of my ability to the day I die.
Indisputably, in WAY too many cases, private enterprise has shown itself to be both utterly untrustworthy and deadly. IMHO at least as bad if not worse than public services.
75% of Americans believe corporations have too much control in this country. Washington DC is corporate controlled territory, plain and simple.
And the only difference between the Dems and GOP is the speed at which their knees hit the floor when corporations come calling.
Corporate personhood, corporate welfare, corporate impunity. “Tort reform” such that now the aggrieved can’t even sue the b@st@ards. Multinationals run by criminals and fake patriots who hide behind that giant American flag on Wall Street. (I’d love to take that glorious piece of cloth down and give it to someone who deserved to fly it.)
There was a time when these behemoths were held accountable to American consumers, share holders and taxpayers.
No more.
These white collar criminals deserve what would be coming to them. Had Obama any hair downstairs.
But as always they won’t even foot the bill. You and I will…
Fred
July 2nd, 2009
10:55 am
You’re welcome Norml. Pot should be legalized. Why does Uncle Sam care what I do in the privacy of my home? You want to control me too? Sure you do.
That’s what progressives do. Coerce and control. Just like your heroine Nancy Pelosi.
AmVet
July 2nd, 2009
10:59 am
“…or how about those groovy VA hospitals…”
jake, first and foremost let me apologize for what I am going to say next.
You’re an idiot.
And you know not a damned thing of what you speak.
I have written here repeatedly of the exceptionally excellent care I received at the VA. Not only did they save my life, the ABSOLUTELY BLEW AWAY ANYTHING I’VE SEEN OR HEARD OF IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR.
On a scale of one to ten they are hands down, a ten.
My guess is you have never spent one moment of your life, in ANY capacity – patient, staff or volunteer – in ANY VA hospital.
Go get some REAL life experiences in this matter and then come back and tell me what you know…
md
July 2nd, 2009
11:00 am
“PAT: I remember those games. You never wanted to walk around Fulton County Stadium when the Braves were playing. Someone would jump out of the bushes and force you to go to the game at gun point…It was terrible…”
Ah, the good ole days. I used to take a date to the game because the tickets were cheap, you got to park on the front row, you had an entire section to stretch out in, and the vendor was sitting on the stairs next to you with personal service because nobody else was there.
TW
July 2nd, 2009
11:01 am
md – that’s great, but for those who do not subscribe to your plan for them, what do you propose we do with them, as our present plan is not working. Your response sounds like a beat around the bush to avoid saying ban them from healthcare. Is that what you are saying?
IC Atlanta
July 2nd, 2009
11:03 am
For Ms. Godzilla who states England and Canada “love” their health care system and for other like minded statist
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columns/OpEd-Contributor/Obamacare-failed-in-Europe-7900839-49458267.html
Long lines, rampant staph infection, denial of drugs – that is hope and change that I don’t want or need.
DebbieDoRight
July 2nd, 2009
11:05 am
Paul: Saw a report this morning in the newspaper. In 31 states, more than 25 percent of adults are obese. In every state, the rate of obesity is higher among 55-64 year olds (the oldest baby boomers) than among those 65 and older.
Paul — it’s mainly because of the so called “food” that we’re eating today. Food so pumped up with steroids OR food that’s been so chemically altered it can only be called “food” in the broadest terms. Watch the film/documentary The Future Of Food, which offers an in-depth investigation into the disturbing truth behind the unlabeled, patented, genetically engineered foods that have quietly filled U.S. grocery store shelves for the past decade.
All these genetically modified poultry, beef, vegetables, etc.; (not to mention High Fructose Corn Syrup which is prevalent in EVERYTHING these days — you have to look high and low to find ketchup or “honey” mustard, that doesn’t really have honey in it, that has real sugar in it and not the genetically modified/science project “high frucstose corn syrup”), all these foods are having a disturbing effect on America. Also, last year, or the year before the FDA approved “cloned” products to hit our markets, perhaps in the next 5 years. They’ll probably start with milk products from cloned cows, and then take off from there. Watch what happens with that and if a whole new generation of “illnesses” take effect. Whatever happened to Daisy?
“As we move on into this so-called biotech revolution and we start producing more and more transgenic manipulations, we’ll start seeing pieces of DNA interacting with each other in ways that are totally unpredictable… I think this is probably the largest biological experiment humanity has ever entered into.”
- Ignacio Chapela
getalife
July 2nd, 2009
11:05 am
md,
We set right behind the visitor’s dug out where the players walked down after batting.
Getting drunk , laughing at them when they lost to the pathetic Braves had many wanting to fight.
Good times.
sane jane
July 2nd, 2009
11:07 am
It’s hardly a bannable offense, but I wish we could also abandon the playground antics. Obumbler, Obambi, Shrub, Darth Cheney, etc.
Goes for both sides – the namecalling distracts (and poisons credibility) from whatever possibly valid point you were trying to make.
Normal
July 2nd, 2009
11:07 am
AmVet: You’re on a roll today…way to go. I was going to say something about VA too, but couldn’t figure a way that would make sense. VA was always there for me when I needed them. Thanks
Vinny
July 2nd, 2009
11:07 am
Will someone please open a window? The putrid stench of “hope” and “change” is stinking up the place.
Conservatism leads to Paranoia
July 2nd, 2009
11:08 am
A few points; try and buy health insurance out side of a group plan. The costs are extreamly high as well as the deductables. Anything close to decent coverage is $1,000 a month plus. With the medium household income in this country at $50,233 (2007) decent insurance coverage would be roughly 34% of post tax household income for the average family. People don’t have coverage because they can’t aford it. So what happens? They don’t receive any preventitive medical care and when they do get sick and wind up at the hospital it’s at the emergency room. If they get care who pays for it? They get bills they can’t pay and the hospital eats it or what? The hospital trys to get their money out of the government. The system is already absorbing the costs of uninsured patients. There is a better way to do it though.
Point 2. Insurance companies are in business to make money not to make sure people stay healthy. They do not want to insure sick people or people who might get sick and they look for ways to deny coverage whenever possible. If selling health insurance wasn’t a profitible business there wouldn’t be over 3,000 companies selling it. A gov’t option would level the playing field for the consumer. What do you think medicare does?
Point 3- I own a retail business. Turnover at the hourly level in most retail business is in excess of 100% per year. Many of the jobs are part time. There is no way most retailers can afford to cover hourly employees with health insurance. They would go broke. If you haven’t owned or run a business you have no right to bash Wal-Mart for not offering health insurance to hourly employees. They are not forced to take the job and the ambitious ones have ample opportunity to work there way into a job that offers benefits.
getalife
July 2nd, 2009
11:09 am
Where is RW, @@, Dusty , etc…..?
Mmmmm.
Jake
July 2nd, 2009
11:10 am
Am – I know when one of the world’s richest men, the Saudi King Fayd, had heart problems he went to the Cleveland clinic, not some wonderful hospital in a socialized medicine country and not Walter Reed. If they’re so wonderful please tell me why your chosen one campaigned so hard on improving health care for veterans?
md
July 2nd, 2009
11:10 am
“md – that’s great, but for those who do not subscribe to your plan for them, what do you propose we do with them, as our present plan is not working. Your response sounds like a beat around the bush to avoid saying ban them from healthcare. Is that what you are saying?”
Enabling reform. If we “need” to reform healthcare, then we also “need” to reform the recipients. Motivation vs handouts. You would be surprised what people will do to get their “free” healthcare. Remember when Six flags gave out “free” tickets. People walking down the middle of I-20 climbing all over themselves.
socialism is da BOMB
July 2nd, 2009
11:10 am
AmVet- I too own my own business! Your negativity towards private business leads one to believe that it might be a practice you adhere to, If not my apology. But my question still is the same which of the two in your opinion (private or government) can be the most effective and least intrusive into our pocketbooks? I am interested in your response.
AmVet
July 2nd, 2009
11:11 am
md, I remember hearing a story (true or not I can’t say) from the old ball park on Ponce where the Crackers played. Back then the crowd was not really a crowd. A few hundred maybe. Skip Carey was just starting out and apparently called a pitch a fast ball. Someone in the stands heard him and said, “No, Skip it was slider!”.
That’s how quiet it was back then…
md
July 2nd, 2009
11:16 am
And then the Braves had to ruin the experience by winning :’)
Pennsylvanian
July 2nd, 2009
11:16 am
I will consider supporting a gov’t health care plan if the plan includes us all. All government employees, from POTUS on down, all Representatives, Senators, their staffs and families, all military personnel and their families. No exceptions. I am sick of hypocrites in Washington deciding what’s best for us, using our money. Then providing a better plan for themselves, using our money.
Normal
July 2nd, 2009
11:27 am
Jake, due to the two “wars”, Walter Reed and most all of veterans health system was overloaded. The previous Administration cut budget for the VA and they did the best they could with what they were given.
Go do what AmVet said. Volenteer at the hospital on Cleveland Ave for a while, then talk to us…Just sayin’…
Doggone/GA
July 2nd, 2009
11:28 am
“It’s hardly a bannable offense, but I wish we could also abandon the playground antics.”
I just scroll right past them.
AmVet
July 2nd, 2009
11:29 am
“Your negativity towards private business leads one to believe that it might be a practice you adhere to,”
I’m not certain what the hell that is supposed to mean, but I have a fair idea.
Otherwise say what you mean.
“…tell me why your chosen one…”
I voted against him, Jake.
Any other incredibly dumb, unfounded stereotypical statements?
Normal
July 2nd, 2009
11:31 am
md: There was the old story about a guy who had two Braves tickets he didn’t want so he put them on his windshield, figuring somebody would take them…When he came back, however, he found two more tickets there…couln’t give them away back then…
Paul
July 2nd, 2009
11:33 am
So many opposed to ‘government run health care” but no one can tell me what that means. Or even cite where the administration wants a government run system.
Oh, well.
DebbieDoRight
Yeah, I agree. Still think reform is a lonnnng way off, as too many Congressmen are too much in hock to too many agribusinesses with waaaay too many $$$$ at stake.
In both parties.
out again -
He did IT
July 2nd, 2009
11:35 am
Long lines, rampant staph infection, denial of drugs – that is hope and change that I don’t want or need.
Why change when that is working so well for us right here in the USofA.
TnGelding
July 2nd, 2009
11:38 am
FinnMcCool
July 2nd, 2009
10:44 am
Knowing Mr. Sam is farrowing new ground in his grave:
http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2004/3103waltons.html
socialism is da BOMB
July 2nd, 2009
11:39 am
AmVet Why is it a always a personal attack by you? If you don’t want to answer the questions then please don/t respond. I made an observation based on your rant to nowhere,then apologized in the same sentence if I was incorrect. You really need to see someone-maybe a VA hospital! I’m sorry i thought I was responding to someone with some sense of couth,my bad.
pat
July 2nd, 2009
11:52 am
Doggone, no I will not post easily discredited polls. Ones with a decent sampling size that is wide spread among demographics that has control and is carefully carried out, yes. Not some ad hoc news paper poll that has less than a thousand respondents in a concentrated area. You cannot derive real information that way. Extrapolating 895 people to 300,000,000 mathematically puts the margin of error so high that the results are completely irrelevant.
DB, Gwinnettian
July 2nd, 2009
12:01 pm
pat, if you’re still around, coupla things.
If polls using ~1000 people were bogus and useless I really doubt that national candidates for office would bother commissioning such work–they’d insist on much larger samples. But they don’t, generally. Because that’s overkill. Generally.
Also, if you want an actual stat geek’s take on the validity or lack thereof on heathcare polling, there’s this, from not that long ago, which should be fairly enlightening. It covers six major polls on the topic, coupla which have been cited by Jay. Seriously, have a look.
AmVet
July 2nd, 2009
12:03 pm
socialism, a little background.
I am often flamed for my “rants” as you call them. Almost always there are personal insults and attacks involved. And in every case they are unprovoked.
I not only expect this I usually handle them with aplomb, if I deign to ressond to a lot of the stupidity at all.
I am a big believer in the John Wayne sentiment, “I will not lay a hand on any other man and I require the same of them.” (Metaphorically speaking of course).
Your cryptic and unsolicited reply seemed very much as if you were implying I practice a business of negativity???
I sought confirmation/clarification. (Which was never forthcoming BTW)
And your response, “AmVet Why is it a always a personal attack by you?”
Wake up and smell the coffee, I DID NOT attack you.
Unless by attack you mean “I’m not certain what the hell that is supposed to mean, but I have a fair idea. Otherwise say what you mean.”
And notwithstanding your amazingly thin skin, do not pretend to care about me or my health.
Your disingenuous concern is both ugly and transparent…
jt
July 2nd, 2009
12:11 pm
All of you bloggers here that worship at the alter of the state should MAN-UP, and insist on pure goverment healthcare.
Why cut the insurance middle-man in? Isn’t the insurance industry the villian here?
Just like your “wars” that measure “effectivness” by how few civilians are killed, you all are doing the same with socialistic/fascist healthcare.
Half-ass.
Step away from that satuated fat!
Doggone/GA
July 2nd, 2009
12:30 pm
“Doggone, no I will not post easily discredited polls”
If it’s not a poll of EVERY person…it’s “easily” discredited.
DebbieDoRight
July 2nd, 2009
12:31 pm
Socialism: just read where UN-employment just hit 26 year high 9.5%!! Heck of job in just 120 days Barry!! Oh,and by the way just to get a jump start on the left – It’s Bush’s FAULT!!!
Let’s talk some facts: According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics over 60% of jobs lost from March 2008 to March 2009 were in manufacturing and construction industries. Most of these jobs were related to companies putting into effect mass layoffs. In June 2008 unemployment was 10.3% this was around the time that McCain called the economy “sound” and McCain’s advisor on business matters, Phil Grahamm called the displaced American workers “whiners”. There was job dissolution BEFORE Obama took office.
DebbieDoRight
July 2nd, 2009
12:35 pm
IC Atlanta: Why in the heck do you people want to have someone control your health care?
SOMEONE already controls healthcare!!! Especially if you’re in an HMO!!! Wake up!!!
DB, Gwinnettian
July 2nd, 2009
12:37 pm
socialistic/fascist healthcare.
jt, I think you’ve pretty much lost the argument when you’re reduced to calling “fascist.”
And for what it’s worth, if I thought having a true socialized medicine, i.e. a UK-style National Health, here in the US I’d not shy away for advocating for it. I don’t think it’s especially scary to contemplate. I just don’t think it’s needed. I think a single-payer plan akin to Canada’s would work here. I have for years.
DB, Gwinnettian
July 2nd, 2009
12:39 pm
just read where UN-employment just hit 26 year high 9.5%!!
26 year high… refresh our memory–who was President 26 years ago? Did that guy get re-elected?
DebbieDoRight
July 2nd, 2009
12:52 pm
Normal: There was the old story about a guy who had two Braves tickets he didn’t want ….
Too funny!! You’re bad……….
Normal: Jake, due to the two “wars”, Walter Reed and most all of veterans health system was overloaded. The previous Administration cut budget for the VA and they did the best they could with what they were given.
Go do what AmVet said. Volenteer at the hospital on Cleveland Ave for a while, then talk to us…Just sayin’…
AMEN!! I’m someone who DOES actually volunteer at Walter Reed AND with numerous military dependent services; I’ve seen the truth of your statement with my own eyes. Some people would rather LISTEN to someone else’s truth, than to see the truth for themselves.
MD: You do know that many poor at that way by choice, don’t you?
That is SOOOOO true!!!! Why, in a recent poll, 2500 poor people were asked, “If you could win the lottery tomorrow and suddenly become rich, would you turn it down and stay poor?” Well, 99% said that they WOULD!! They’d rather be POOR and live in the slums, around crime and violence, than become wealthy!!! Amazing isn’t it?!!?! What really amazes me about this, is that all the “christians” who are supposedly “christ like” really hate that directive that Jesus gave to them, ( you know the one about the poor will always be with you so take care of them yada, yada, yada….). They ALWAYS forget that bible verse, but they never fail to remember the one about homosexuals………… Just saying…..
DebbieDoRight
July 2nd, 2009
1:03 pm
Off Subject, but I just HAD to post this……..
FBI says Saddam’s weapons bluff aimed at Iran
Saddam Hussein believed Iran was a significant threat to Iraq and left open the possibility that he had weapons of mass destruction rather than appear vulnerable, according to declassified FBI documents on interrogations of the former Iraqi leader. “Hussein believed that Iraq could not appear weak to its enemies, especially Iran,” FBI special agent George Piro wrote on notes of a conversation with Saddam in June 2004 about weapons of mass destruction.
The FBI reports, released on Wednesday, said Saddam asserted that he was more concerned about Iran discovering Iraq’s weaknesses and vulnerabilities than the repercussions of the United States for blocking the return of UN weapons inspectors who were searching for WMD.
Hmmmm…….I remember a couple of months back that Cynthia Tucker did an Op-Ed saying this same thing. The horrendous backlash from “some conservatives” about her article was “amazing”!!!
Hope&Change for Me and You
July 2nd, 2009
1:09 pm
In honor of the 44th President of the United States, Baskin-Robbins Ice Cream has introduced a new flavor: “Barocky Road.”
Barocky Road is a blend of half vanilla, half chocolate, and surrounded by nuts and flakes. The vanilla portion of the mix is not openly advertised and usually denied as an ingredient. The nuts and flakes are all very bitter and hard to swallow.
The cost is $100.00 per scoop.
When purchased it will be presented to you in a large beautiful cone, but then the ice cream is taken away and given to the person in line behind you.
You are left with an empty wallet and no change, holding an empty cone with no hope of getting any ice cream.
Are you stimulated yet?
jacksmith
July 2nd, 2009
1:11 pm
AMERICA’S NATIONAL HEALTHCARE EMERGENCY!
It’s official. America and the World are now in a GLOBAL PANDEMIC. A World EPIDEMIC with potential catastrophic consequences for ALL of the American people. The first PANDEMIC in 41 years. And WE THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES will have to face this PANDEMIC with the 37th worst quality of healthcare in the developed World.
STAND READY AMERICA TO SEIZE CONTROL OF YOUR NATIONAL HEALTHCARE SYSTEM.
We spend over twice as much of our GDP on healthcare as any other country in the World. And Individual American spend about ten times as much out of pocket on healthcare as any other people in the World. All because of GREED! And the PRIVATE FOR PROFIT healthcare system in America.
And while all this is going on, some members of congress seem mostly concern about how to protect the corporate PROFITS! of our GREED DRIVEN, PRIVATE FOR PROFIT NATIONAL DISGRACE. A PRIVATE FOR PROFIT DISGRACE that is in fact, totally valueless to the public health. And a detriment to national security, public safety, and the public health.
Progressive democrats the Tri-Caucus and others should stand firm in their demand for a robust public option for all Americans, with all of the minimum requirements progressive democrats demanded. If congress can not pass a robust public option with at least 51 votes and all robust minimum requirements, congress should immediately move to scrap healthcare reform and request that President Obama declare a state of NATIONAL HEALTHCARE EMERGENCY! Seizing and replacing all PRIVATE FOR PROFIT health insurance plans with the immediate implementation of National Healthcare for all Americans under the provisions of HR676 (A Single-payer National Healthcare Plan For All).
Coverage can begin immediately through our current medicare system. With immediate expansion through recruitment of displaced workers from the canceled private sector insurance industry. Funding can also begin immediately by substitution of payroll deductions for private insurance plans with payroll deductions for the national healthcare plan. This is what the vast majority of the American people want. And this is what all objective experts unanimously agree would be the best, and most cost effective for the American people and our economy.
In Mexico on average people who received medical care for A-H1N1 (Swine Flu) with in 3 days survived. People who did not receive medical care until 7 days or more died. This has been the same results in the US. But 50 million Americans don’t even have any healthcare coverage. And at least 200 million of you with insurance could not get in to see your private insurance plans doctors in 2 or 3 days, even if your life depended on it. WHICH IT DOES!
If President Obama has to declare a NATIONAL STATE OF EMERGENCY to rescue the American people from our healthcare crisis, he will need all the sustained support you can give him. STICK WITH HIM! He’s doing a brilliant job.
THIS IS THE BIG ONE!
THE BATTLE OF GOOD Vs EVIL!
Join the fight.
Contact congress and your representatives NOW! AND SPREAD THE WORD!
God Bless You
Jacksmith – WORKING CLASS
AF
July 2nd, 2009
1:57 pm
We need a public option that does not exclude individuals for pre-existing health conditions.
Individuals with health lifestyles should pay less – get credit for not smoking, not being obese, … what else?
I am okay with the idea that everyone has to have either private or public health insurance – and has to pay for it. Those who cannot afford it should be subsidized.
The government should be negotiating rates with drug makers – the same way big insurers do. Medicare paying full cost for drugs when big insurers pay less is ridiculous. That is my tax dollar being spent unwisely.
Will this be a perfect system? No, but neither is the system we have now. I don’t even want to hear all those self rightous idiots who blather about “free market”. Capitalism does not seem to work well for health care delivery to a populace because demand for health care is “relatively inelastic”. That means that the dynamic between supply and demand that is supposed to set the price of health care does not work. All the current system does is move around who pays. Nothing in the current system deals with cost restraint. And it can’t, not as market/capitalism tool – because when health is at risk we will pay whatever we have or whatever it takes – that is “inelastic demand.”
Oh, well. Maybe, just maybe, we can create another imperfect system that will at least deliver less costly health care to more people. That is am improvement.
catlady
July 2nd, 2009
2:10 pm
the problem with comparing M. Bloomberg’s business with the health care industry is that those paying for the service are NOT those who will benefit if the job is well done (ie profitable). The middlemen, the insurance companies, will profit. They have no reason not to.
Until the insurance companies are out of the equation, we will not see a positive change in our medical services/costs.
lovelyliz
July 2nd, 2009
2:43 pm
The CDC also reported on insurance coverage in the 20 largest states, and found the percent of uninsured people ranged from 3 percent in Massachusetts to 23 percent in Texas. Lack of health insurance was greatest in the South and West.
md
July 2nd, 2009
4:25 pm
Deb,
Funny how some of those “poor” are smarter than you think. They have no problem pulling the wool over the eyes of individuals such as yourself. Why should they choose to better themselves when they have others that will always give them what they choose not to do for themselves.
If it is our duty to care for the poor, do the poor not have the same duty?
I’ll reiterate for you – there are those that “can’t” take care of themselves and those that “won’t” take care of themselves. Learn the difference.
And how many of those slum dwellers have a choice to go to school and better themselves? That would be 100%. How many of them do? A whole lot less than 100%. School system is “free”, Hope scholarship in Ga is “free”, Pell grant is “free”, Institutional grants for the less fortunate are “free”.
It is a CHOICE. We choose EVERYTHING we do.
Keep enabling them and they will remain poor forever. But since they are the bread and butter vote of the democratic party, doubt anything will change.
Would you enable an alcoholic? Drug addict? Sex offender?
Hand up, not hand out.
Wells
July 2nd, 2009
4:45 pm
MD – “And how many of those slum dwellers have a choice to go to school and better themselves? That would be 100%. How many of them do? A whole lot less than 100%. School system is “free”, Hope scholarship in Ga is “free”, Pell grant is “free”, Institutional grants for the less fortunate are “free”.
“Better themselves” So if you go to school you are a better person?
md
July 2nd, 2009
5:02 pm
“Better themselves” So if you go to school you are a better person?
Ever here the saying “Knowledge is power”?
I didn’t say anything about good or bad people. “Poor” knows no difference. But knowledge is the difference for all.
md
July 2nd, 2009
5:04 pm
And Wells, “better themselves” means improve their position. But knowledge will also improve their being.
TnGelding
July 2nd, 2009
8:21 pm
md
July 2nd, 2009
5:02 pm
A little work ethic doesn’t hurt either. Not to mention grit and determination.
AmVet
July 5th, 2009
10:35 pm
For my detractors especially – Traveling Wilburys
AmVet
July 5th, 2009
10:40 pm
Oh, the sweet smell of success