A little hint at life in the other Georgia
Christina Davidson, on the road writing for The Atlantic, has a somber piece on the effects of the recession on the people of Millen, Ga., a little town between Augusta and Savannah.
Jobs are disappearing, people are disappearing. The town is drying up. Vera Williams, owner of Vera’s Cafe, faces the prospect of having to close her business.
“Vera feels that God is not only testing her, but testing the whole world. “Love of money–that’s what got us in the state we’re in.” From her perspective, the world has earned the trials and tribulations unleashed by the global economy, but will learn valuable lessons through the experience. “Even though this is a bad time, this is a good time too. Now you learn what you really need.”
It’s worth a read.
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
240 comments Add your comment
Matlida
June 29th, 2009
6:38 pm
“I’m sure that Obowo will rush in and bail you and your little town out of failure.”
I don’t know of any small-town folks who want to be bailed out. They want more job opportunities in their towns than the usual three: WalMart, Hardees, and the fertilizer warehouse. They’d like to manufacture quality, American-made goods, or process American-grown crops (without fear the plant and town will be shut down becaues greedy effers couldn’t be bothered with safety regulations), and for “green jobs” to become a reality, not something their legislators fight against. They’d love for the smart kids in the family to have a reason to return to the community after college and populate the neighborhoods, churches, and schools with the next generation. If YOU translate that to mean “wanna bailout,” then you either you don’t know Americans very well, or you’re just an ayyyyyyyyhole.
@@
June 29th, 2009
6:39 pm
No, Paul, I don’t get Morris’ e-mails.
Uh Oh, since Bud mentioned MJ, I’ve just gotta share.
Bush I and Al Sharpton appear to have something in common.
A generation perhaps?
Now I’m out.
Kamchak
June 29th, 2009
6:43 pm
….but does any one remember the kid/bully from ‘The Christmas Story’…the one that Ralphie pummeled?
Anyhoo, there was a little squirt that hung with ‘yellow tooth’…..repeating everything that ‘yellow’ said.
I think his name was Toad.
Lotsa Toads on here.”
“Who here is it who mumbles from the peanut gallery about Stratfor?”
Gee Paul, all this time I just thought you were merely a slitherer outer. The simple fact is you just don’t understand. I don’t care one fig about Stratfor. The (croak)Stratfor(croak) comments are for the benefit for the one here that used a pop culture reference to criticize others for doing exactly what they do.
The only experience that I have personally with Stratfor, is when you used them as a reference for rationalizing torture because of decades long intelligence failures in the Middle East, which I still call BS on that. Stratfor is a for profit intelligence service that contracts to corporations, media outlets and governments. It’s easier for me to see that for profit intel service will tell a client what they want to hear rather than risk losing a lucrative revenue stream. This is the primary reason I stay away from the for profit infotainment industry.
Frederick Douglass
June 29th, 2009
6:49 pm
Bud Wiser, us darkies can sho do sum trifling stuff now can’t we? We haven’t reached the level of the Elvis worshippers yet, and surely
we aren’t intelligent enough to know a UFO when we see one. That old
Obowo can’t possibly do the job Dubya did, for heavens sake he’s a
darkie. Did I miss any time worn cliche that paw-paw passed on to you?
Seek and ye shall Find
June 29th, 2009
6:53 pm
You want economic stimulus right here at home. Well, why not start with getting rid of our dependence on foreign oil. Better yet, let’s get rid of the bulk of our dependence on oil and use locally produced electricity instead. We currently use about 20 million barrels of oil per day and at the bargain basement price of $70 per barrel, that’s a whopping 1.5 billion dollars per day that goes to oil producers. And, that’s just the direct cost for the oil itself. That is just the tip of the soon to be melted iceberg.
I Report (-: You Whine )-:
June 29th, 2009
6:55 pm
(without fear the plant and town will be shut down becaues greedy effers couldn’t be bothered with safety regulations)
There were more people offed in Obozo’s Chicago last weekend than have been killed in the nation’s cornfields all year.
Look at who the libs whine about.
TnGelding
June 29th, 2009
6:56 pm
I Report
You Whine 
June 29th, 2009
4:09 pm
Then why are you self-described capitalists trying to destroy it by withdrawing your participation?
godless heathen
June 29th, 2009
6:59 pm
My Fried Green Tomatoes story. When my dear grandmother moved out of her home (50+ years in the South) she was talking about some ladies she had just met at the Assisted Living. She said, “They seemed nice and like they got some sense except they were frying green tomatoes.”
Kayaker 71
June 29th, 2009
7:08 pm
Fredrick,
I would settle for you and those like you to to get a job. You would be surprised to know that the identification of UFOs, the W putdown and your estimation of how well Mr. Wonderful will do are not nearly as important as a steady income and paying your share of the taxes that all of the rest of us pay. My paw-paw never took a thin dime from anyone. And you know, that might build more character than all of the Steppen Fetchit quotes that you can drag up. We’re pretty tired of paying your bills.
Seek and ye shall Find
June 29th, 2009
7:15 pm
Someone make Whiner a peanut butter sandwich to take to work with him to the Imperial Sugar plant. And, if those two don’t get him, there’s a whole list of other laissez faire thee wells to choose from. Why do Republicans have this peculiar mind set that they need to take preemptive measures in other sovereign countries in order to secure their livlihoods yet they cannot see the need to take preemptive measures domestically in the form of laws to protect lives. They would rather wait until after people like Madoff and companies like Imperial Sugar do their damage and then come in and express their faux grief. Spare me.
Paul
June 29th, 2009
7:21 pm
Kamchak
I just seemed to recall whenever @@ would post something relevant to get opinions on, there’d regularly be someone who never addressed the topic, just mocked the source.
[[The only experience that I have personally with Stratfor, is when you used them as a reference for rationalizing torture because of decades long intelligence failures in the Middle East]]
Didn’t we just have a similar discussion the other day? Questioning, assessing, discussing or analyzing are not rationalizing, advocating or supporting.
The analyst at Stratfor merely laid out how we came to do what we did. By so doing, we can take steps to keep those situations from happening again. If you disagree, fine. Some would be interested in an alternate theory.
They’ve also been cited and linked for their analyses of the historical basis of Democrat and Republican foreign policy views, how Obama and McCain fit, and likely outcomes for either as President.
So far, they’ve been spot on with Pres Obama and the Democratic establishment.
Ummm,. do you know any intel service, consulting firm, market forecaster, financial advisor, etc etc etc who do what they do for free? Even Consumer Reports wants to stay in business, advocate their policy positions and pay their staff.
TNGelding
Note for you downstairs at end of thread.
Seek and ye shall Find
June 29th, 2009
7:23 pm
A little more on the real cost of oil:
…Milton Copulus, the head of the National Defense Council Foundation, has a different view. And as the former principal energy analyst for the Heritage Foundation, a 12-year member of the National Petroleum Council, a Reagan White House alum, and an advisor to half a dozen U.S. Energy Secretaries, various Secretaries of Defense, and two directors of the CIA, he knows his stuff.
After taking into account the direct and indirect costs of oil, the economic costs of oil supply disruption, and military expenditures, he estimates the true cost of oil at a stunning $480 a barrel.
That would make the “real” cost of filling up a family sedan about $220, and filling up a large SUV about $325 (when oil was $10 a barrel cheaper than it is now!).
Due to the enormous military cost of protecting Persian Gulf imports, the hidden cost of oil from that region amounts to $7.41 per gallon of gasoline. The cheapest gas out in my part of the Bay Area is $3.11 a gallon for regular. Add them together, and the true cost of my gas is probably around $10.52 a gallon.
We use 21 million barrels a day of oil. At $480 a barrel, that’s $10 trillion a year draining from the national coffers…
And, that is still not the whole story.
Paul
June 29th, 2009
7:23 pm
Report/Whine
[[There were more people offed in Obozo’s Chicago last weekend than have been killed in the nation’s cornfields all year.]]
A stunning confirmation of the effectiveness of cornfield safety regulations, wouldn’t you say?
Mrs. Godzilla
June 29th, 2009
7:24 pm
There is more than a hint of that life in Georgia and all the other 50 states as well. America must start listening to Americans.
BOSCH
If you’re out there….aren’t you deeply involved in some family eldercare? I could use some helpful hints.
Paul
June 29th, 2009
7:24 pm
Seek
And as long as someone else pays, or costs get buried where people can’t connect the dots, it will continue.
I Report (-: You Whine )-:
June 29th, 2009
7:26 pm
I’d eat a peanut butter sandwich even though peanut butter is nasty and grown by Dhimmy Carter.
I’d tour a sugar factory, hang out for a while, no problem.
I wouldn’t, for any amount of money, stroll through the South or West side of Chicago, at night or day, are you freaking crazy?
Kamchak
June 29th, 2009
7:26 pm
Paul
Yup. NPR is no-profit.
Bud Wiser
June 29th, 2009
7:29 pm
Yeah Matilda, and they all want to run around in the beautiful sunshine sucking down all of the pollution free air, prancing naked through the fields and taking a long drink from a beautiful flowing stream.
Then, they want Obowo to provide for whatever they desire.
And Freddy D., had I said that, no doubt I would have been banned because Jay lives behind the old demwittocrat double standard with the best of them. “Monkey Meat” however, could not have said it any better, right, Jay?
Seek and ye shall Find
June 29th, 2009
7:30 pm
What if your peanut butter had some salmonella or E. Coli and your factory had a little electrical arc that set off a flash fire that melted your skin off your bones. The vultures would all be heard remarking days later, “It tastes like chicken, with just a hint of caramel.”
josef nix
June 29th, 2009
7:30 pm
Kayaker 71–Though no doubt responding to your post @ 7:08 is pointless, honor and dignity demand it. That was uncalled for. You are making assumptions. The overwhelming majority of “those” Americans, the same as the overwhelming majority of all Americans, are hardworking, diligent, productive citizens who get up, go to work, come home and spend as much time with their families as they can, enjoying as much of the good life as they can, and pay their way without taking “a thin dime from anyone.” I don’t know what else your paw paw may have taught you, but mine, whom I honor greatly, taught me that manners supersedes all else and you can say what you have to say and still keep a civil tongue in your mouth.
Paul
June 29th, 2009
7:31 pm
May seem like splitting hairs, but I was speaking of people who seek to provide information and support a business…. without accepting tax dollars or foundation grants to pay their salaries. NPR has masters to satisfy, also. As well as an audience to encourage. Ever listened through their semiannual fund drives? Drive you batty –
And some of their licensing arrangements with some of their staff ought to raise an eyebrow or two on the ‘we’re only in it for the service’ idea.
josef nix
June 29th, 2009
7:34 pm
Ms Godzilla–please understand I mean this sincerely when it comes to advice for elder care: just remember at all times s/he diapered your butt…I know it sounds frivolous, but it helps to put things in perspective…
Paul
June 29th, 2009
7:35 pm
Mrs. Godzilla
Don’t want to but in – but…. Had a course at university from a gentleman who was a national leader in a field known as ‘geriatrics’ – an umbrella term that was short-lived. He tried to recruit some of us into the advanced degree program. Anyhow, one thing he did pass on is the difficulty people have separating their emotions and their need to take care of family from an honest assessment of who is best qualified to provide the care needed. And to recognize when the time comes that in spite of all the love, someone else is probably better qualified. No hard and fast rule – he just pointed it out as one of the most difficult and common things he saw.
hope that helped –
glad you’re back, too -
josef nix
June 29th, 2009
7:38 pm
PAUL–”…now some of the critics will say, a little of the cash has gone astray, but that’s not the point my friend, when the money keeps rolling out, you don’t keep books, you can tell you’ve done well by all the happy grateful looks, accountants only slow things down, figures get in the way…”
Jus’ sayin’
Angry Black Man
June 29th, 2009
7:40 pm
Kayaker 71
June 29th, 2009
7:08 pm
Fredrick,
“I would settle for you and those like you to to get a job. You would be surprised to know that the identification of UFOs, the W putdown and your estimation of how well Mr. Wonderful will do are not nearly as important as a steady income and paying your share of the taxes that all of the rest of us pay. My paw-paw never took a thin dime from anyone. And you know, that might build more character than all of the Steppen Fetchit quotes that you can drag up. We’re pretty tired of paying your bills.”
Pardon me for interrupting, but just what makes you think you’re paying Fred’s bills or even better my bills? I just love how people want to crucify any person of color who “uses the race card”, when you sit there and make an assumption like that. Maybe you need to check to see how many “white” people are on welfare and get assistance from the government. I’m not one of those who sit here and google facts and percentages all day but I’m sure you’ll be fairly surprised by the numbers you find. While you’re worried about paying my bills, I actually work everyday to protect your @$$ and make sure no terrorists enter our country to try to replicate 9/11. Not to mention, without those free-loading, no bill paying n******, the south would not have existed in the first place. I’d love to see some “White” people actually doing manual labor for free. If anything, you should be giving thanks to your ancestors for bringing us here.
wet wiccan
June 29th, 2009
7:42 pm
josef nix
June 29th, 2009
5:01 pm
NORMAL–Flannery O’Connor–”Good Country People,” “A Good Man Is Hard to Find.”
____
MAE WEST: “A hard man is good to find.”
I Report (-: You Whine )-:
June 29th, 2009
7:42 pm
Cling with all your might to your one little disaster, seeker, maybe another one will happen and you will have much to shake in my face, but meanwhile, hundreds if not thousands have been slaughtered in Chicago since then, by those who pay no mind to gun regulations.
What, no tears for homey?
Kayaker 71
June 29th, 2009
7:43 pm
Joseph,
A civil tongue? A civil tongue. There was not a pointless phrase in that post. Manners haven’t worked, billions of dollars in welfare aid have not worked, counseling to prevent out of wedlock pregnancy has not worked, keeping the best and brightest in the black male community out of jail has not worked, killing off more males than the Iraq war has not worked…. what do you suggest besides platitudes, denial and having your head up your a**.
Angry Black Man
June 29th, 2009
7:43 pm
To everyone else,
I appologize for my previous outburst. Some things just tick me off.
Paul
June 29th, 2009
7:43 pm
josef nix
I know… I know…
I go back to a general principle of econ 101: TANSTAAFL. There ain’t no such thing as a free lunch. Someone, somewhere pays. And continued payment, even if not for profit, means satisfying an audience. And making sure the donors feel they’re getting something for their money. Even if it isn’t a classic ‘profit.’
I donate to a few charities. Classic nonprofits. They do a lot of good. But if I think they spend too much on staff, on themselves, or start misusing funds to care for the people who need it, I don’t donate.
josef nix
June 29th, 2009
7:44 pm
wet wiccan–”being good had nothing to do with it”–Mae West
josef nix
June 29th, 2009
7:46 pm
Kayaker–yes, a civil tongue.
AmVet
June 29th, 2009
7:47 pm
Wow 71! It is only very occasionally that one sees such proud and open racial bigotry and stereotypes anymore.
We all still have much work to do to make this a land of liberty and justice for all, but clearly some have more work to do than others…
Normal
June 29th, 2009
7:48 pm
Kayaker 71…Bless your pea pickin’ heart, one size too small..Just sayin’
Normal
June 29th, 2009
7:50 pm
Off the subject, but a good bumper sticer, I think…a mind is a terrible thing to waste and a waist is a terrible thing to mind…
josef nix
June 29th, 2009
7:50 pm
Angry Black Man–though I probably would disagree with you on certain points in a different environment than here, quite frankly I found your “outburst” rather restrained coming as it does from one of “those” who goes about his life no differently than anyone else.
Kayaker 71
June 29th, 2009
7:54 pm
Angry Black Man,
Today when I drove into downtown Macon, I counted 36 males sitting on their backsides in the downtown area, some drinking their first beer, all in the age group where they could have a job. Who do you think is paying their bills? You and me. Don’t you get tired of this? You and Frederick might have a job and support your families without help from handouts but there are countless others who do not. BTW, I spent nearly 35 yrs protecting the same Americans that you do. I am not talking about responsible Americans, no matter what their race, who carry their own weight. So get the chip off your shoulder…. all of these non-paying folks are making you look bad.
getalife
June 29th, 2009
7:56 pm
And now for some great news:
http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Iraq/ss/events/iraq/082701iraqplane#photoViewer=/090629/481/19a80800801e4a0cbbd1f15db9fdf622
TW
June 29th, 2009
7:59 pm
Millen? That’s Jenkins Co there, boy! God’s Country – Real America!
Good thing for them God didn’t make Iraqi civilians…being that Jenkins Co was up ‘w’s colon about as much as any of ‘em…
What if it’s not a test from God? What if its really his wrath for being a bunch of evil turds? OMG!!!
Nah…Manteats would have said something had that been the case…
Frederick Douglass
June 29th, 2009
7:59 pm
Kayaker 71, never been on welfare, dad wasn’t on welfare, grandad never
on welfare, great-grandads were all slaves. I’m infinitely smarter than
you, end of story.
josef nix
June 29th, 2009
8:00 pm
PAUL–In relation to charity–I take great pride in being from Mississippi for one reason if no other, the state with the lowest per capita income has the highest percentage of that income donated to charity. Whenever my mother was chided for giving to the beggars, and told “they probably have more than you do” she responded with, “well, I still have something they don’t: pride.”
As you know, in my religious tradition charity takes precedence above all else. I got tickled at one of my fellow “tribesmen” who made the comment, “have you ever noticed that when it comes to taking up a collection, they always come to us first and, of course, we have to put in more so we want look cheap…” Still, though, we do it because “it’s what you’re supposed to do.” Her husband is from Mississippi and, as she said, “he gets hit double hard!”
DoggoneGA
June 29th, 2009
8:02 pm
“Today when I drove into downtown Macon, I counted 36 males sitting on their backsides in the downtown area”
Just in case you don’t know it: the first rule of holes is…when you’re in one STOP DIGGING.
AmVet
June 29th, 2009
8:04 pm
71, keep digging. Assuming you’re white, you’re making the rest of us look bad. Dig?
getalife, not quite true, but I’m reminded of Jerry Ford saying, “Our long national nightmare is over.”
F&cking bloodlusting chickenhawks…
Angry Black Man
June 29th, 2009
8:12 pm
Thanks Josef. I’d be interested in hearing opinions different from mine because, of course, my life and perception is different from those around me. I don’t walk around with a chip on my shoulder because I’ve seen suffering by all races. I find it funny to a point that while growing up, people would make assumptions about me only to find out that my life was often in better shape than their’s was.
Kayaker, how do you know that those guys don’t work. There is such a thing as an off day. Not everyone works mon-fri 8-5. On my off days, I sit up with my friends and do nothing. It’s called relaxing or unwinding. Some days we even hang out in the city or sit on the porch and drink beer and talk about days gone. It’s easy to make assumptions about people. I don’t worry about them simply because, between protecting my family and my country, I don’t have the time or energy. Do you raise those same concerns about the people who collect government subsidies or no bid contracts who sit on their butts all day too? Maybe you could run for office and clean up government welfare?
Kamchak
June 29th, 2009
8:18 pm
“May seem like splitting hairs…”
There’s the slitherer outer we know and love. I used the phrase not for profit for a reason. Consumer Reports and Public Broadcasting paying their employees is not the same as trying to post a profit to satisfy shareholders or bond rating agencies or just to put money in my pocket–but you know that because you are a college educated individual. Yes, I have suffered decades of PBS fundraising and consider it a small price to pay for what I once regarded as the standard to which journalism is measured. When Ken Tomlinson took control of PBS in 2003 that quality was compromised. And while Tomlinson is gone, many of his hires are still there to continue his mission to purge the Corporation for Public Broadcasting of a perceived “liberal bias.”
josef nix
June 29th, 2009
8:19 pm
Too bad Kayaker didn’t come by here over the weekend, he’d have seen at least one sorry, low-down, good for nothing sittin’ on HIS backside. too shiftless to even get up and cut the grass!
josef nix
June 29th, 2009
8:20 pm
oops, left out a key word there, “sorry, low-down, good for nothing WHITE BOY sittin,,,,
Seek and ye shall Find
June 29th, 2009
8:21 pm
Cling with all your might to your one little disaster, seeker, maybe another one will happen and you will have much to shake in my face, but meanwhile, hundreds if not thousands have been slaughtered in Chicago since then, by those who pay no mind to gun regulations.
What, no tears for homey?
I don’t cling to your so-called one little disaster, whiner. I simply provided two examples from the great state of Georgia. Do you want me to start listing them for you and exactly how many lives do I have to list to satisfy your appetite for needless deaths. And, if you are so concerned about violent crime in Chicago, move there and start supporting the local government so they can hire more police.
Normal
June 29th, 2009
8:22 pm
Josef…You talkin’ about me again?
DoggoneGA
June 29th, 2009
8:23 pm
“Too bad Kayaker didn’t come by here over the weekend, he’d have seen at least one sorry, low-down, good for nothing sittin’ on HIS backside. too shiftless to even get up and cut the grass!”
And I’d like to know why HE is sittin’ on HIS backside, posting here instead of being out doing something. It’s ALWAYS amusing when people with nothing better to do than sit around posting on a forum, want to say things about someone else doing exactly the same thing. (or something similar)
Seek and ye shall Find
June 29th, 2009
8:27 pm
Does Kayaker’s boss know that he is wasting time driving around and scoping out young men laying around. Kayaker, did you stop and interview these young men in order to determine just how they acquired their money.
Normal
June 29th, 2009
8:27 pm
AM VET: Yor 6:38…We were always told in the Navy, if it moved salute it…if it didn’t move, paint it gray…
josef nix
June 29th, 2009
8:28 pm
Angry Black Man–a funny for ya…I was at a meeting one night and one of my friends had just presented the case for a reform measure and you could just hear the ever-so-sympathetic liberal white element seeing her black skin and nodding, yes, yes, poor suffering sister. I raised my hand and was told “we don’t need your input here, Mr. Nix.” I burst out laughing. Why? Well, she knew I knew she was from a well-heeled family of professionals and capitalists and, since we were buddies, she knew whatever it was I was about to say was best brought up elsewhere. even if it was to be deilvered against the “Yankee missionaries” she and I both shared a strong dislike of.
I Report (-: You Whine )-:
June 29th, 2009
8:29 pm
And, if you are so concerned about violent crime in Chicago, move there and start supporting the local government so they can hire more police.
Go inspect the sugar factories, fool.
“Police,” what a clown.
josef nix
June 29th, 2009
8:29 pm
NORMAL–If the foo sh*ts, then wear it!
Angry Black Man
June 29th, 2009
8:30 pm
<<< was sitting on his backside in the Atlantic Ocean today doing nothing.
Don’t mention grass Josef. I worked three straight 14 hour days and hit the highway on vacation yesterday after my regular shift. I don’t want to think about what my yard will look like when I get back.
Seek and ye shall Find
June 29th, 2009
8:31 pm
You go inspect them, fool. Now, quit clowning around.
I Report (-: You Whine )-:
June 29th, 2009
8:31 pm
The police in Gwinnet step over the dead bodies so they can shoot their radar guns at people trying to get to work.
Who the f are you fooling?
They are just another tax collection agency.
Kayaker 71
June 29th, 2009
8:32 pm
Joseph,
You know that is not what I talking about. If you are willing to accept irresponsible behavior from people who refuse to work, maybe we can start paying them with your tax dollars. We have dumped BILLIONs of dollars into the welfare system and it is just like pouring water into a hole in the ground. Countless programs have been funded by both political parties to reform the system, all to no avail. Tell me one on-lasting government program that has been successful…. and don’t start with affirmative action. That will show how misinformed you really are.
What is wrong with wanting citizens to be responsible for their own lives without sucking off of the government tit? We are about three generations into this mess and it is no better than it was in 1964.
Frederick Douglass
June 29th, 2009
8:32 pm
Seek and ye shall Find: I’ve got a list of about 350 serial killers you can use, but you have to think exponentially when using it, the deaths
run into the thousands. I left Adolph Hitler off of my list, my calculator doesn’t compute that high.
Angry Black Man
June 29th, 2009
8:35 pm
The more I read from you Josef, I think we’re probably a lot alike. I’m usually the one in meetings that everyone has to give the “shut up” look to. I’ve never been afraid to question anything or anyone. I even got in trouble in high school for correcting a math teacher who was teaching the wrong way to solve a problem in class. My mom still picks on me about that to this day.
josef nix
June 29th, 2009
8:36 pm
Angry Black Man–my philosophy is, why interfere with the hand of G-d! If H- wants it cut, then H- can cut it!
Seek and ye shall Find
June 29th, 2009
8:37 pm
Yet more on the true cost of oil. What a scam. Big oil and their supporters makes Madoff’s actions look like child’s play.
…Ah, everyone’s favorite, the government subsidies.
It’s a surprisingly difficult thing to put a boundary around, because there are so many direct and indirect ways in which the government supports the oil industry, and every study has its own list of things to leave in and things to leave out.
For example, none of the studies I found included the hidden subsidy of leasing public lands to oil companies for next to nothing, which in essence assigns zero value to the oil extracted from the ground, paying the public nothing for the loss of its natural capital.
One 1998 study by the International Center for Technology Assessment (CTA) looked at petroleum industry subsidies, including the percentage depletion allowance and tax-funded programs that directly subsidize oil production and consumption, among other things.
It assessed up to $17.8 billion per year in tax subsidies, plus government program subsidies (such as vehicle R&D programs, highway construction, and environmental cleanup) of between $38 billion and $114.6 billion per year.
They pegged health and social costs at an additional $231.7 billion to $942.9 billion per year, counting factors such as health issues due to pollution, loss of crop yields, and so on.
As for related costs, such as the direct and indirect costs of traffic delays, traffic accidents, subsidized parking and the like, they counted another $191.4 billion to $474.1 billion per year.
Adjusting the estimates to 2006 dollars and rounding, that makes a total of between $68 and $161 billion in government subsidies, between $283 billion and $1,152 billion in health and social costs, and between $233 billion and $579 billion in related costs.
All told, $584 billion on the low side, $1.9 trillion on the high side…
Seek and ye shall Find
June 29th, 2009
8:42 pm
The police in Gwinnet step over the dead bodies so they can shoot their radar guns at people trying to get to work.
Who the f are you fooling?
They are just another tax collection agency.
Talking bad about one of your bastions of all things that is Republican is just so wrong in so many ways. Then again, Republicans are known to shoot anything that’s moving to the left of them. So, in the end, there can be only one. The Republican solution to that dilemma — keep moving to the right. They’re sooooooo clever, these Republicans.
josef nix
June 29th, 2009
8:42 pm
Kayaker 71–We are immeasurably better off than we were in 1964, but it was not the welfare state that brought it to be, it was the opening up of access to venues previously closed so that hard work, diligence and responsibility COULD pay off in attaining the American Dream. I don’t presuppose to speak for “them” here, but the most vociferous critics I have heard yet of the cycle of dependency created by the welfare state have been “them.”
Angry Black Man
June 29th, 2009
8:44 pm
I like that Josef. I may have to borrow that from time to time if you don’t mind.
TUESDAY VANDY GIRL
June 29th, 2009
8:45 pm
I’m sure that obama’s cap and trade lesislation won’t put ANY new obstacles in place for any manufacturer trying to re-open in Milen( a nice little place btw)..nah..in fact milen will have millions of new green jobs, everyone will have a green job..nobody knows what a green job is, but only nasty republicans cast annoying facts at the sainted obama’s lies..er…initiatives.
Seek and ye shall Find
June 29th, 2009
8:45 pm
Frederick Douglass,
Don’t forget to add Reagan and Rumsfeld and Cheney and the Bush family to your list. After all, they may as well be considered serial killers. Just on a global scale and in the name of things like “national security”. Riiiight. I think they just get off on killing.
Normal
June 29th, 2009
8:46 pm
Kayaker, I’ll give you one…The conservation and construction camps of FDR. And by the way, if you want us all to be good, solid, working stiffs, figure out a way to get us the jobs we will need…Just sayin’…
Normal
June 29th, 2009
8:48 pm
VANDY GIRL. right now, to me, a green job is mowing my yard with my electric mower…
josef nix
June 29th, 2009
8:48 pm
Angry Black Man–thanks for the vote of confidence. Yours is company I would like to keep. My boss is always telling me about the mandated meetings: “I have a special assignment for you…” As she says, “thank G-d for ‘duty # 7′” …and other tasks as assigned by principal…” Sometimes, though, I AM required to go…that’s fun!
josef nix
June 29th, 2009
8:50 pm
Angry Black Man–Normal’s trying to make us look bad and claim he’s doing G-d’s work.
Normal
June 29th, 2009
8:51 pm
AQNgry Black man, you really want to get to know Josef, ask him about wine…Just sayin’
—————–
It’s past my bedtime and my keepers want me back in the rubber room, so good night all…
josef nix
June 29th, 2009
8:53 pm
Normal–WPA, “We Piddle Around” and NRA “No Raggedy A**es,” little Depression Era humor from my Yellow Dog Democrat forbearers…
Angry Black Man
June 29th, 2009
8:54 pm
I don’t presuppose to speak for “them” here, but the most vociferous critics I have heard yet of the cycle of dependency created by the welfare state have been “them.”
I couldn’t agree with that more. I personally wish that welfare was never needed, but until people learn to treat people equally without pre-judging, it will be necessary. Coming from NE Alabama, I can attest that welfare is not the best use of public funds, but it is necessary when people can’t compete on a level playing field. It has less to do with color or race but more to do with class. I’ve seen poor white people treated with the same indignation as poor black people. When we decided to start exploiting labor in 3rd world countries, that’s when we made welfare permanent. No one can make a living working at McDonalds and support a family. It’s hard to create a great school system when there’s no tax base to support it. If the town (city) is filled with nothing but people in the lowest socio-economic bracket, it’s next to impossible to make improvements without outside assistance.
Seek and ye shall Find
June 29th, 2009
8:55 pm
…in the rubber room…
Are you a condom inspector.
I Report (-: You Whine )-:
June 29th, 2009
8:55 pm
The cops in Gwinnett are Republicans, eh?
Too scared to take on real crime, so they create a problem called speeding and devote the entire department to courageously prowl the roads in search of criminals………..to tax.
Sort of sounds like Obozo to me.
@@
June 29th, 2009
8:58 pm
I don’t know about Chicago’s crime but their turnover rate for teachers is an abomination.
76% every five years at the high school level!?!
Geez! and here I thought Obama and Ayers had Chicago’s education thingie in hand.
Angry Black Man
June 29th, 2009
9:00 pm
I’m just getting into wine, so maybe I can learn a great deal from Josef. I’ve finally realized that there’s more to alcohol than Budweiser and Jack Daniels (although I will always drink my corn from a jar). I’ve been expanding my beer selections and it’s time to enjoy what wine has to offer.
Kayaker 71
June 29th, 2009
9:04 pm
Joseph, Frederick and Angry Black Man,
I am not so sure that we are that far apart. I would assume that we all have jobs, are responsible citizens who make their own way and ask little to nothing from others, raise our families in a responsible way and pay taxes to support our government. A number of good authors have come forward in the past 10yrs or so, all black, all conservative (yes, there are a few), who are saying much the same things as I have said. Try reading something by Thomas Sowell, Shelby Steele, Juan Williams, John McWorter, Bill Cosby,W.E.B. DuBois, William Rasberry, the economic professor (Williams), Larry Elder….. I have read most everything that each of these people have written and they echo much of what I have posted. And they are black authors, concerned about the same things that I have voiced. You might not agree with them, you might call them Uncle Toms or some other stupid name but they all have a voice of reason. We have a lot of problems in our country, not the least of which is trying to make America a sustainable, viable place where our grandchildren can experience the same great country that we enjoy. For us to succeed, we have to have a responsible citizenry…. we are creeping further away from that as each year passes. By the way, I have earned the right to sit on my backside after practicing medicine for 45 years and retiring at age 70.
Seek and ye shall Find
June 29th, 2009
9:05 pm
Angry Black Man at 8:54. So true. For example, Perdue’s efforts to get a KIA plant here in Georgia will help out a few counties but every county cannot have a KIA plant. So, what do we do to help level the playing field. I mean, Gwinnett County wheeled and dealed to seduce NCR down here from up north but all they did was give up all sorts of tax concessions and shifted burdens on others for those jobs that did nothing but hurt people in another state. Wow. Isn’t that great. Stealing jobs from another state. We need to create jobs and I don’t see much help coming from the trickle down laissez faire crowd. All they seem to be doing is complaining about someone else trying to do something other than complaining.
josef nix
June 29th, 2009
9:10 pm
Angry Black Man–agreed. It’s pretty hard to “pick yourself up by your own bootstraps” when you are barefoot…you bring up the poor white, and I’ll go ahead and add “trash,” that so many posters here just love to villify, you’re from NE Alabama, you will understand well what I’m about to say: by pitting the poor white and the black against each other, the colonialists have been able for the last 150 years to keep their good thing going down here. Neither one has a pot to p**s in or a window to throw it out of and won’t so long as they are kept in this state of mutual antipathy…
Seek and ye shall Find
June 29th, 2009
9:13 pm
Yes, whiner, Gwinnett County is Republican. And, I suspect that more police there are Republican than Democrat but feel free to show me some poll results if you have them.
josef nix
June 29th, 2009
9:13 pm
Angry Black Man @ 9:00–well, you can also ask me about malt liquor and Kools,,,
Angry Black Man
June 29th, 2009
9:14 pm
Seek, you brushed on it, but what good does it do to bring these jobs here if you get nothing from it (the tax breaks). I remember when Mercedes came to Alabama, the state gave up so much in tax incentives and breaks that it seemed as if the citizens were paying to get the chance to apply for a job there. That’s why I laugh when people say that U.S. businessess pay something like a 25% tax rate. The only people paying that rate are the mom and pops that are being run out of business. Every big business deal that’s been made to bring jobs here to GA since I’ve been living here (9yrs) has only been made after the state and/or city has given up most of their potential income in taxes. And when the businesses don’t pay and the citizens can’t pay, what happens… budget deficits, budget cuts, etc… We’ve created this problem by continually electing the fox to guard the hen house.
DebbieDoRight
June 29th, 2009
9:21 pm
They seemed nice and like they got some sense except they were frying green tomatoes.”
Too funny!!!
someone make Whiner a peanut butter sandwich to take to work with him to the Imperial Sugar plant. And, if those two don’t get him, there’s a whole list of other laissez faire thee wells to choose from.
Another funny!!!
Below is the best quote of the day:
Why do Republicans have this peculiar mind set that they need to take preemptive measures in other sovereign countries in order to secure their livlihoods yet they cannot see the need to take preemptive measures domestically in the form of laws to protect lives. They would rather wait until after people like Madoff and companies like Imperial Sugar do their damage and then come in and express their faux grief.
Good News: Madoff got 150 years!!! If he believes in reincarnation, the next time he comes back as soon as he clears the womb; the feds are gonna take his punk azz away again!!! FEDS: “Come on boy, you know what ya did, grab that pacifier and let’s go”. MADOFF: “whhhhiiinnnneeeeeeee”. If there’s any real justice in the world, may he be “visited” every night by a big buck named Bubba, who’s grandmother lost all her savings to Mad Dog Madoff!!!
Bush’s trickle down theory really works!!! All the crap that Madoff did trickled down to his customers!!!! You go Madoff!!! You Go Bush!!!! Eat more pretzels!!!!
Gotta go home and watch some unintelligent TV (getting ready for a llllloooonnnnngggg weekend), or maybe I’ll stop by the movies and catch the 10:00 show. I heard the Transformers were kicking!!! Loved them when I was a kid….had all of them and played with them until the paint came off their little morphing parts!!! Good night everybody c u tomorrow!!!
Angry Black Man
June 29th, 2009
9:21 pm
Josef @ 9:10. That’s what really pisses me off. And if you try to open people’s eyes to that fact, they swear that that’s nowhere near the truth. That’s why I laugh at the idiots that want to be racist but have nothing to be racist for. They can’t get hired but want to be mad at “those” who won’t get hired. They can’t get credit but want to lynch “those” who won’t get credit. Then they say they’re proud of their country and heritage but don’t realize that their country and heritage is up for sale to the highest bidder. The Chinese and Saudi’s own so much of America it’s crazy. I didn’t realize how much until that company from the U.A.E. wanted to buy and run the security at whatever port that was.
josef nix
June 29th, 2009
9:23 pm
The point here IS education, one of my fields, and I’ve got a LOT to say about that one, and I best not say too much here because I raise lots of hackles there, but just suffice it to say that we’ve taken a long walk off a short pier and the idea of any “reform” is out of the question. It’s time to chuck the whole system and start over from scratch.
I Report (-: You Whine )-:
June 29th, 2009
9:25 pm
Seekie- McCain is a “republican” too.
Angry Black Man
June 29th, 2009
9:28 pm
Josef, don’t do the Kools. I’ve heard stories of quite a few survivors of liver transplants but not too many of lung transplants. I keep my vice in liquid form.
Today’s version of education is a joke. How can you expect a student to learn when all you teach is how to take a damned standardized test?
Scooter
June 29th, 2009
9:33 pm
Angry Black Man,
It sounds to me like you are smart and have a good job. Why are you angry? Just asking…. (sorry Normal Just had to borrow that!)
josef nix
June 29th, 2009
9:36 pm
Angry Black Man–I belong to the 40 acres and a mule party myself. I’m writing on it elsewhere, but one of the things that sticks in my craw about all these good, white liberal Yankees is how they fail to understand that their version of history is a study in hypocrisy, presenting themselves as some great liberators, oblivious to the fact that when, afforded the opportunity to “trample out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored” by effecting a land reform which WOULD have given some boots the straps of which could be used to “pull up by” elected not to. I rankle lots of nerves when I, a vociferous Southern pride white, come out in favor of “reparations.” My own “plan” as such was passed down to me via my Confederate Veteran, slave-owning ancestor, who was also an abolitionist…long story, full of its ins and outs, but suffice it to say that he inherited “the problem” and was just as tied to it as were his chattel given the conditions of time and place. His anger, and the anger passed down to me, was the lack of a plan. It’s fine to talk theory, but what are you going to do about it.
Angry Black Man
June 29th, 2009
9:40 pm
It’s just a nickname I got tagged with while going thru the academy for my job. I was told that I would be people’s worst nightmare because at 6′ and over 200lbs with a very strong opinion, I’d be viewed as an angry black man with a gun. I thought it was funny considering I always had a problem with my temper. The only thing that really gets me angry now is stupidity and ignorance.
josef nix
June 29th, 2009
9:42 pm
Angry Black Man–the Kools were another time and another place for me, but I DID enjoy them.
Education and the standardized tests: my girl says, “I’m a top 2% scorere in three languages and you know what that means? I can bubble in in three languages.”
Angry Black Man
June 29th, 2009
9:47 pm
Kayaker @ 9:04. We may indeed be a lot alike, but as responsible citizenry I also think we have to extend some help to those who need it. How can you give an immigrant, someone who is new to this country, more assistance than someone who’s been a part of this country for generations. I may agree with you that just giving out money is not the best practice. If we stop that, then what do we do? I’m a firm believer in teaching a man to fish as opposed to feeding him fish. However, if the streams and lakes are barren, is teaching him to fish really going to help him or do him more harm?
Scooter
June 29th, 2009
9:54 pm
Angry Black Man,
I am glad you are on the right side of the law.(no pun)
Angry Black Man
June 29th, 2009
9:55 pm
Hey Josef, you should have seen the look on people’s faces as I was walking thru Manassas, Antietam, and Gettysburg last month. It was as if they were seeing a ghost. A lone, young black man touring these sights and taking pictures and notes. I am a fan of Civil War Era history. Some of those who were trying to be the “liberators” were nothing of the sort. If they were true “liberators”, we wouldn’t be still fighting that same fight 140 years later.
Angry Black Man
June 29th, 2009
9:56 pm
Awwww scooter thanks. Just don’t break them or else you’ll have to change your opinion of me. LOL!!!!
@@
June 29th, 2009
9:59 pm
Damn!!!!!!
@@
June 29th, 2009
10:01 pm
Oops! (ISH)