The GOP’s Basiji target ‘Cap and Tr-8-tors’

After eight Republican congressmen voted in favor of the climate change bill (it passed by seven votes), the GOP’s ideological militia — its own rhetorical Basiji, you might say — took after them with a vengeance. The eight defectors were denounced as “quisling Republicans,” as the “Cap and Tr-8-tors,” as “backstabbing, turncoat Rinos.” They’re even peddling bumper stickers denouncing the turncoats by name.

At Politico, Bruce Bartlett, the former Reagan official and longtime conservative think tanker, explores what that kind of reaction by his conservative friends might mean to the future of their party.

“If any of my friends had bothered to try and understand why these Republicans voted contrary to gods of talk radio who now control the Republican Party they would see that they were simply reacting to the demands of their constituents. Since when did it become unacceptable to do what one’s constituents want a member of Congress to do?

The fact is that Obama carried the districts of all but one of these Republicans—in most cases substantially. (Rep. Chris Smith of New Jersey is the exception.) For example, Rep. Mark Kirk’s Illinois district went for Obama by a 61% to 38% margin.”

If the party faithful target those eight, as the Basiji demand, the Republicans could lose those marginal districts or even drive the current occupants to switch parties. And that, Bartlett concludes, “is why the Democrats control Congress and why Republicans won’t for a long time to come.”

336 comments Add your comment

I Report (-: You Whine )-:

June 28th, 2009
9:15 am

Does this mean Obozo will soon be negotiating with us, like he is with the mullahs?

eewwwww

By the way, anybody who voted for this insane monstrosity, a bill design solely to destory the US economy and grow the size of government, is not a “Republican.”

Begone with them.

DB, Gwinnettian

June 28th, 2009
9:20 am

its own rhetorical Basiji, you might say

Nice. That one yours, Jay? I might need to steal it.

Meanwhile, per The Whiner:

a bill design solely to destory the US

It am? Fo’ sho’?

Your idiocy, and your uncanny knack of unintentionally proving a point Jay might wish to make, rarely fails to entertain when one is in the mood. Give ya that much (and absolutely nothing more.)

DB, Gwinnettian

June 28th, 2009
9:23 am

They’re even peddling bumper stickers denouncing the turncoats by name.

Well, come on, they’re via Cafe Press. Give me ten minutes and I’ll have “Jay is my Dreamboat” thongs available there for Bud, Whiner, Davo and Dave R to purchase.

Jay

June 28th, 2009
9:25 am

Whiner and Wide Stance, both of you need to back it way down — permanently — or be gone.

And Stance, change your name to something that doesn’t reference your buddy there.

Normal

June 28th, 2009
9:27 am

Gee, who would have thought that you would find one, much less eight, independent thinkers in the GOP?
———————–
Goo morning, BRUTUS, SIR! Still missin’ the urinal, I see…careful…don’t fall in…Just sayin’

TnGelding

June 28th, 2009
9:29 am

Normal

June 28th, 2009
9:29 am

Jay, just call WHINER, BRUTUS SIR and STANCE, BRUTUS, MA’AM…

Seek and ye shall Find

June 28th, 2009
9:37 am

Well, far be it for me to stand in the way of a self-perpetuating implosion. It should be documented, from a safe distance, and eventually used in some sort of relevant classroom setting. Perhaps a documentary of the GOP Basiji movement and its impact on modern Republicanism and the formation of the American Taliban Party.

Redneck Convert

June 28th, 2009
9:43 am

Well, they ought to kick these Traders out of the Republican party, is all I got to say. If they make a law to tax everybody that puts gases into the air, alot of people on Bookman’s blog are going to go belly up. Starting with Sister Dusty and moving right on to this Whiner and Mike. They might even have to find a job. Instead of carping on this blog day and night.

Well, it’s time to go down to the Church of Holiness to get the Conservative Talking Points for the week. Have a good Sabbath everybody.

mm

June 28th, 2009
9:49 am

Bush spends a trillion dollars on Iraq with nothing to show for it, and we’ll never see a dime of that money.

Obama wants to spend a trillion dollars on Americans, and the GOP sellouts want to protect the big insurances companies. No wondere the GOP is almost extinct.

I Report (-: You Whine )-:

June 28th, 2009
9:49 am

bookman- What do you think I’ve been asking you to do other than stop the personal attacks?

If they leave me alone, I’ll be your most cuddly, lovable blogger by far.

clyde

June 28th, 2009
9:54 am

The cap and trade bill just seems like more bad news to me.I would have liked to see the economy on a slight up swing that could be maintained before saddling it with this monster.I just thought about coming out of my protective shell when the price of gasoline put me back under.If the purpose of this bill is to keep consumers home,it’s already working.

mm

June 28th, 2009
9:54 am

Jay, just ban Whiner and everyone will be happy. Isn’t there a limit on the number of lies a blogger can post?

clyde

June 28th, 2009
9:58 am

One question that I’ve been meaning to ask is how many of you that support this bill that promises climate change relief have shut down your air conditioners in support of your beliefs.You know,that’s the least you could do to show you care.

AmVet

June 28th, 2009
10:02 am

“…is why the Democrats control Congress and why Republicans won’t for a long time to come.”

On one hand great news! On the other hand terrible news.

Party loyalty, no, complete obeisance, is the de facto modus operandi in Washington. But is nothing new in American politics. And in spite of the rhetoric, it is not just the purview of the Republicans. Though the members of this abysmal, modern, hijacked version truly are forced into being almost mindless apparatchiks for their intolerant and misguided “leadership”.

And I agree, the fake conservatives are thankfully melba toast for the foreseeable future.

This is their ultimate penance and their inevitable failure that results from two party tyranny.

Some here claim to lean heavily independent. Yet I see very, very few who are actively pushing to eradicate the status quo. And I read almost nothing here that advocates for rescue from the duopoly’s stranglehold of self-serving interests.

Has anyone here voted for the non-Democratic AND non-Republican candidate in four of the past five presidential elections? I think not.

I would contend that though they would never admit it, there are plenty here who still vote a strict party ticket.

Do yourselves and America a huge favor. Forswear the addiction to this “evil of the two lessers”. Join in with vanguards who are trying to take this great nation back for “we the people”. End corporate control of America. Advocate for a competitive and participatory democracy. Demand accountability, and economic and social justice from these bribed, entrenched and closed door, back room frauds who no longer even try to hide that they don’t really represent us anymore.

As much staggering damage and death that Bush/Cheney unleashed on the United States of America, it is arguable that at least he may have been the straw that broke the camel’s back.

The backlash is certainly unmistakable.

And I fervently hope that my grandchildren see an America that has not fully evolved into some sort of 18th century quasi-European aristocracy, controlled by oligarchs and plutocrats…

mm

June 28th, 2009
10:04 am

Clyde,

The idea is to allow us to keep using our air conditioners while making the electric companies pollute less. Why do wingnuts always side with corporations?

Bosch

June 28th, 2009
10:09 am

clyde,

I’m not sure what all this cap and trade stuff is about, could you please explain it to me? Thanks.

ken

June 28th, 2009
10:11 am

mm, Can’t run your air if you don’t have a job. No polution at all, should make every lib smile.

clyde

June 28th, 2009
10:11 am

MM,
I see,MM,a cleaner environment with no sacrifice,is it?I don’t think it’s going to work that way.

Ralph Swietz

June 28th, 2009
10:11 am

Whats so alarming to me is that the Republicans and their “ilk” continue to use these idiotic talking points about government spending, anti-Obama nonsense and being the party of “no”…..Obama won the presidency in a virtual landslide. He was voted in because the majority of the country wanted this….The Republicans continue to alienate the American people by voting against what the people wanted….the next election won`t be as close!!!

Bosch

June 28th, 2009
10:12 am

clyde,

Of course there must be sacrifice – who said/wrote otherwise?

I Report (-: You Whine )-:

June 28th, 2009
10:14 am

Clyde- The libs want to make other people carry the burdens of their grand ideas, as usual-

Unions’ Health Benefits May Avoid Tax Under Proposal

Ooops, wrong example of hypocrisy, mulligan!

Low Income Home Energy Assistance Program (LIHEAP)

http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/ocs/liheap/

And do you really think al-Gore is going to be “capping” his energy use any time soon? What does it tell you when the head hysteritic is the top energy user in all of the United States?

Wide stance

June 28th, 2009
10:16 am

Awwwwwww shucks….

mm

June 28th, 2009
10:16 am

Ken,

The morons that voted for Bush caused this mess. It’s going to take a while to undo what he and the GOP did.

Normal

June 28th, 2009
10:18 am

The Grand Old Party- The Do nothing Party. Year 2010, The Grand Old Party- The Nothing To Do Party…Rest In Peace…Just sayin’

clyde

June 28th, 2009
10:32 am

Bosch,
Quickly.The government sets a cap on CO2 emissions and sets up a financial market to either sell or at their discretion,give away permission to emit a certain level of CO2 to companies. Now it is generally conceded that a real price on CO2 emissions is the only way to force companies to comply.Companies purchase permissions and then ,hopefully,develop or purchase technology to reduce their emissions making their permissions available for sale to other companies that haven’t had the capital to follow suit on the technology.Eventually the idea is to force all polluting companies out of business.

In the meantime there’s the consumer that will have to foot all of this bill.That’s you and me.

That is my basic understanding of how cap and trade is supposed to work.

Soothsayer

June 28th, 2009
10:32 am

con·ser·va·tive (kn-sûrv-tv)
adj.
1. Favoring traditional views and values; TENDING TO OPPOSE CHANGE.
2. Traditional or restrained in style: a conservative dark suit.
3. Moderate; cautious: a conservative estimate.

Conservatives oppose change as a matter of personal choice.

Power companies oppose change because they make tons of money the way things are now. The last thing they want you to is generate your own power.

Oil companies oppose change because they tons of money the way things are now. The last thing they want you to do is change from an oil-burning car to an electric vehicle.

But, change we must.

Soothsayer

June 28th, 2009
10:40 am

The United States has just 4% of the world’s population yet we use 25% of the world’s oil. The pumped-up, testosterone-poisoning-induced, macho, ego-extension vehicle of choice in the U.S. is something like the Ford F-150 Super Crew Cab that weighs a staggering 5,913 lbs. and gets just 14 mpg city and 19 mpg highway. Surely, we can do better than this.

We, as a country, operate as if oil is an infinite resource. The right howls at the noonday sun that if we can only drill offshore we can eliminate oil imports and solve our energy dilemma, yet they cannot offer anything to substantiate that claim. I’ve even heard people claim that oil deposits are continually “replenishing themselves” sort of like a bog or something. What a bunch of poppycock.

The sad truth is that the United States (and, yes, the world) is very close to running into a crisis the likes of which we have never seen before. Last summer’s $4.25 gas was just a foretaste of things to come. Our ONLY hope is to get off of oil or at least drastically reduce our use of it.

Many of the world’s largest oil fields are reaching the end of their useful life (Google Cantarell). There has not been a major find since the 70s. There is a day of reckoning coming and $4.25 gas will seem like a Sunday picnic. There are encouraging signs, though. Electric vehicles for one. We are at a turning point in world history that rivals the changes the world experienced at turn of the 20th century. We can adapt and survive or fail and perish.

DoggoneGA

June 28th, 2009
10:41 am

“But, change we must”

Not only must, but will. If we don’t intiate and control the change, the earth WILL extract it’s revenge and force us to change…maybe in ways we REALLY won’t like.

getalife

June 28th, 2009
10:47 am

“CQ takes a closer look and points out that all of those Republicans, except Smith, hail from districts that went for Obama over McCain. The bill passed 219-212.”

They want to keep their jobs

Going to be an interesting battle in the Senate with bribery money coming from Big oil, coal , utilities vs Goldman Sach’s , other investment banks to trade carbon and GE. Establishment vs establishment.

Normal

June 28th, 2009
10:48 am

Doggone, your 10:41 This will be a self fulfilling prophacy, and it won’t be maybe…

josef nix

June 28th, 2009
10:48 am

JAY, as you would say, “now let’s be honest,” don’t you think referring to them as Basiji is a bit over the top and somewhat disrespectful of the horrors being inflicted on the Irani victims of their brutal excesses? I’m not that fond of them either, but there is a huge difference between their obstructive, rude and partisan attacks within the perameters of a free and democratic society and the wholesale razzia taking place in Iran at the hands of those to whom you would compare them speaking in hyperbole.

Bosch

June 28th, 2009
10:48 am

clyde,

Sounds good to me – especially since we foot the bill anyway.

josef nix

June 28th, 2009
10:51 am

Ralph Swietz

The votes of less than one-third of the eligible voters hardly constitutes a “landslide.” Jus’ sayin’

Kamchak

June 28th, 2009
10:52 am

josef

Hyperbole attracts hyperbole

Bosch

Hellova game going on now!!!!!

DoggoneGA

June 28th, 2009
10:53 am

“This will be a self fulfilling prophacy, and it won’t be maybe…”

Exactly

mike

June 28th, 2009
10:53 am

Typical Bookman. Don’t agree with Jay’s own point of view? Well you are part of the Basij.

Why doesn’t Jay whine to us again about Obama being called a fascist or socialist? Typical Bookman hypocrisy: “Do as I say, not as I do.”

As usual, Jay does not address the argument made by those who are so insolent as not to share Jay’s intrinsically correct views. Instead, like always” he moves right into questioning their character.

Jay Bookman, Rush Limbuagh. The only difference is that Limbaugh is successful.

Bosch

June 28th, 2009
10:54 am

Clyde,

Forgot….one thing you left out – since the government is subsidizing much of this change – in other words fitting the bill for new technologies and the such, I don’t see that the bottom line consumer will be spending that much more. Because if you think for one minute that we see a huge increase in utility bills, the general populace will stand for that, well you’re wrong, and politicians know that and will ensure that doesn’t happen.

clyde

June 28th, 2009
10:54 am

Bosch,
I don’t beleive you have a good grasp of the pending costs of capturing CO2 and storing it.

AmVet

June 28th, 2009
10:55 am

Soothsayer,

In two years of asking the question of the self-proclaimed – what is a conservative – you have said in a very few words what all of their empty slogans don’t. And so you’ve hit upon a truth they dare not face.

Either due to a lack of self-inspection, intellect or morals. Or in the case of some, all three.

The trick that the Reagan/Newt/BushCo Republicans could never comprehend, much less master, was/is to maintain the best of our traditional values.

NOT THE WORST.

They for a few pieces of silver sold our American birthright and heritage to the highest bidders. Including the religious madmen and charlatans who run the biggest Ponzi scheme on the planet.

They glorify the wicked and vilify the weak.

And their long sought martyrdom is at hand…

josef nix

June 28th, 2009
10:55 am

Kamchak–”Hyperbole attracts hyperbole”

Meaning?

mike

June 28th, 2009
10:57 am

Oh, and maybe if Jay wasn’t so intellectually dishonest and dedicated to maintaining a high level of partisan hatred, he might start ascribing the extreme comments of Democratic Underground or Daily Kos to the Democrat Party as a whole?

I know, I know. The qualifier of “if Jay wasn’t so intellectually dishonest” is like saying “if George Washington wasn’t dead”, but still…

Normal

June 28th, 2009
10:59 am

What I can’t get my head around is why we are even having this discussion about what is the cause of global warming..Mother Nature has been doing warming/cooling since the beginning. What I want to discuss is what are we doing to prepare for the change? We have never had this many people on this earth before..What will the worst case scenario be? What do we do? What CAN we do? It doesn’t matter if this is a new ice age or a warming melt down, we are sitting on our hands and arguing about what caused it?! Inane…Just sayin’

Normal

June 28th, 2009
11:01 am

…And cap and trade won’t save us either…

josef nix

June 28th, 2009
11:02 am

NORMAL–in response to your 10:59–”It’s not nice to fool Mother Nature,” and when she gets pi**ed she’s a b*tch.

Normal

June 28th, 2009
11:03 am

MIKE: The only difference is that Limbaugh is successful.
———————–
What’s your defination of “successful”?

mike

June 28th, 2009
11:03 am

Look at how tolerant liberals are to those 9 Democrat Senators who do not support the public option:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102×3942425#3942439

I’d copy some of the comments, but most of them are so filled with vulgarities that they would blow the filter.

Looks like the Democrats have their own Basij who brand all who do not share the party line as traitors. Again, if Jay wasn’t so intellectually dishonest, he would publish their comments and call them names too. But of course, nobody ever accused Jay of being that.

mike

June 28th, 2009
11:05 am

Normal –

“What’s your defination of “successful”?”

Well, most rigid pundits who stoke the flames of partisanship want to be rich and influential. Limbaugh is. Jay is not.

DoggoneGA

June 28th, 2009
11:05 am

“The votes of less than one-third of the eligible voters hardly constitutes a “landslide.””

Eligible voters don’t matter…it’s the people who actually vote that matter. So what was the percentage of VOTERS?

Kamchak

June 28th, 2009
11:05 am

josef

“Tr-8-tors” isn’t over the top? As Jay pointed out the opposition party carried 7 out of the 8 districts of these Republicans. I always believed that a rep’s first obligation was to the constituents of his district, not toeing the party line. These reps didn’t betray their constituents.

josef nix

June 28th, 2009
11:06 am

NORMAL–Limbaugh IS successful, he set out to be a pompous bodily orifice and has done a bang up job of it! Jus’ sayin’ :-)

josef nix

June 28th, 2009
11:09 am

KAMCHAK–I agree that Tr-8-tors is pushing the envelope, but calling them Basiji is only going for one-upmanship in name calling, not the most constructive for civil discourse

josef nix

June 28th, 2009
11:11 am

Percentage of voters, 52, not a “landslide” either and the question that we should be addressing when bringing up the number who vote versus those who do not, why the boycott of the booth?

md

June 28th, 2009
11:13 am

“Why do wingnuts always side with corporations?”

Maybe because “we” are corporations and “we” need them to do well.

They provide most of us with jobs.

Most all retirement plans are tied to corporations, including teachers, firefighters and police.

And corporations are the lifeblood of our economy.

You want corporations to fail? If so, we all fail.

mike

June 28th, 2009
11:13 am

josef nix –

“Limbaugh IS successful, he set out to be a pompous bodily orifice and has done a bang up job of it!”

The only funny thing about that is your belief that Jay is any better than Limbaugh. It is quite amusing to see how hyper-partisans think that their pundits are any different from the pundits on the other side. They are all the same, as are their fervent supporters.

I Report (-: You Whine )-:

June 28th, 2009
11:13 am

The United States has just 4% of the world’s population yet we use 25% of the world’s oil. The pumped-up, testosterone-poisoning-induced, macho, ego-extension vehicle of choice in the U.S. is something like the Ford F-150 Super Crew Cab that weighs a staggering 5,913 lbs. and gets just 14 mpg city and 19 mpg highway. Surely, we can do better than this.

Blah, blah, blah.

The rest of the world lives in mud huts, zobo, how about you?

Jay

June 28th, 2009
11:15 am

Mike, if you can find comparable rhetoric and anger — “traitors, betrayal,” etc. — directed at the 44 Dems who voted against the bill, you would have a valid point.

Otherwise, you don’t.

And really, you ought to learn to play a second song on that rhetorical piano of yours. We get that you can play your cute little favorite four-note riff — let’s call it “Sanctimony”, shall we? — because we’ve heard it over and over and over again. If only the rest of the world was as high-minded as you are — OK, we get that.

But really, try the other 84 keys. They make music too.

mike

June 28th, 2009
11:15 am

“Why do wingnuts always side with corporations?”

Apparently someone doesn’t follow the news very closely. Ever hear of Chris Dodd and AIG?

Here is a clue: all politicians side with corporations. Stop being so gullible.

getalife

June 28th, 2009
11:17 am

rush has made millions feeding the con mental disorder to cons.

He makes sane Americans never vote gop.

He is sucessful for the dems and does not care as long as the millions keep coming in for him.

md

June 28th, 2009
11:18 am

Is it just me, or are the enlightened ones on here including Jay setting a wonderful example of “change” and leadership by calling people/groups names.

If one must resort to name calling and personal character attacks, are they not part of the problem vs the solution?

josef nix

June 28th, 2009
11:19 am

JAY–party line turncoats comes to mind.

DoggoneGA

June 28th, 2009
11:19 am

“They provide most of us with jobs.”

This is probably the biggest, most repeated lie perpetuated by the “supply siders” aka “trickle downers” of the last 30 years. Corporations do NOT “provide” jobs. They create jobs in response to demand. No demand, no jobs. Witness the numbers of people being LAID OFF right now. Demand has gone DOWN and jobs are being ELIMINATED.

Want more jobs created? Increase demand for goods and servicese. THEN you will see jobs being “provided”…but not before then. That’s why “trickle down” doesn’t work. Jobs don’t come from the top down, they come from the bottom up. If you want to increase available jobs, you need to increase the demand from the consumers. And you do THAT by giving those consumers more money to spend. The hundreds of rich can’t spend enough to cause the kind of demand that millions of “poorer” consumers can cause.

mike

June 28th, 2009
11:20 am

Jay –

“Mike, if you can find comparable rhetoric and anger — “traitors, betrayal,” etc. — directed at the 44 Dems who voted against the bill, you would have a valid point.

Otherwise, you don’t.”

Utter nonsense. Your point (as always) is that conservatives are intolerant of those who do not hew to the party line and you spend a lot of time on hyper-partisan sites to find evidence.

My point (which you ignore as usual) is that liberals are just as likely to be intolerant of those who do not hew to party line and I provided evidence of that from a hyper-partisan liberal site. You know, the sites that you never quote.

Feel free to actually address the argument I made, or feel free to duck it again. I don’t care.

Spare me your hypocrisy on being “one note”. You play one note every day, namely that Republicans and cosnervatives are wrong/bad/dumb etc. The difference is that I am just a “civilian”, while you get paid to play your one tired note.

mike

June 28th, 2009
11:23 am

getalife –

There is actually some ring of truth to what you say. The part that you miss is that you are one of the gullible liberals who the liberal pundits play like a fiddle. You are no different than Rush’s dittoheads. You juts mindlessly hate different people.

josef nix

June 28th, 2009
11:23 am

mike–I never said I thought Jay was much different from Limbaugh, I do, but I never said so. Jay and Limbaugh both are paid to stir things up. Both do a pretty good job of it. The difference is that Limbaugh has a national following and Jay’s is largely limited to this colonial backwater.

DoggoneGA

June 28th, 2009
11:24 am

“You know, the sites that you never quote.”

Why not start HERE instead? How many recrimations against the Dems who voted against the bill do you see here? Heck, THIS VERY subject started with this “By the way, anybody who voted for this insane monstrosity, a bill design solely to destory the US economy and grow the size of government, is not a “Republican.” Begone with them.”

Where’s the comparable comment from the “other side”?

Jay

June 28th, 2009
11:24 am

In other words, Mike, Democrats are NOT calling those 44 traitors who deserve to be driven out of the party.

Correct?

Thanks for the confirmation.

I Report (-: You Whine )-:

June 28th, 2009
11:25 am

Honduras has a history of military coups: Soldiers overthrew elected presidents in 1963 and again in 1972. The military did not turn the government over to civilians until ~~~~~~~~1981,~~~~~~~~~~~ under U.S. pressure.

That was when there was a man in the White House but now we have Sheila and her let’s all get along sniveling chorus, so the military takes the government back.

Anarchy, despotism, brutality, all making comebacks under Obozo.

md

June 28th, 2009
11:28 am

“Corporations do NOT “provide” jobs.”

So, jobs would still exist if corporations did not? Hardly.

Supply and demand determine the “number” of jobs. Jobs will not be “created” unless the corporation is created first. Partnerships, LLC’s the same.

The only difference would be gov’t jobs, and you left leaners are working hard to make that as big as possible.

mike

June 28th, 2009
11:28 am

There was a writer on DailyKos who pointed out that Olbermann has become no different than O’Reilly. The particulars are slightly different, but I think the argument as a whole reflects Jay’s writings:

“The show has degenerated completely, now resembling nothing more than the left-wing equivalent of Fox News politico-pop. Keith loves to mock Bill O’Reilly’s ridiculous shtick and arrogance, but it is increasingly difficult to see the stylistic difference between KO and Bill-O….

….Item #5 will always be on the biggest news item of the day. … Item #4 will be about the latest baseless talking-point laid by Dick Cheney. … An “expert” will come on and fervently agree with Keith… Items #3 and #2 will be pretty much repeats of Item #4… Finally, there’s item #1 … which usually highlights — you guessed it! — the latest baseless political talking points laid by a cranky obsolete conservative.”

Liberal pundits, Conservative pundits. What’s the difference.

Kamchak

June 28th, 2009
11:28 am

…is only going for one-upmanship in name calling, not the most constructive for civil discourse.”

Jeez josef, where have you been for the past thirty years? Talk-radio has defined the parameters of political discourse—Jay is staying within those parameters. I certainly agree that the dialogue isn’t civil, but one must speak the same language in order to be understood.

getalife

June 28th, 2009
11:30 am

mike,

Please hump Jay’s leg not mine.

I told you repeatly that I am a proud Independent and you ignore it.

I am done with your leg humping.

DoggoneGA

June 28th, 2009
11:31 am

“Jobs will not be “created” unless the corporation is created first. ”

But the corporation will NEVER be created until the demand is there first. This is not a “chicken and egg” question. The demand comes first, always. No demand, no corporations (or any other kind of business), no jobs. Demand creates jobs. Business are the RESPONSE to that demand, not the intiator.

TnGelding

June 28th, 2009
11:31 am

josef nix

June 28th, 2009
11:33 am

KAMCHAK–talk radio has defined the extremists, and with rare exception, Jay has stayed WELL within those parameters and in general his use of language is restrained which is precisely why I “called him to task” here. I expect better of him.

md

June 28th, 2009
11:34 am

“I certainly agree that the dialogue isn’t civil, but one must speak the same language in order to be understood.”

What ever happened to “2 wrongs don’t make a right”.

mike

June 28th, 2009
11:34 am

Jay –

“In other words, Mike, Democrats are NOT calling those 44 traitors who deserve to be driven out of the party.”

I never looked and I don’t care. I was looking for evidence of the liberal intolerance to those who do not hew to party line and the headline on Democratic Underground provided that in regards to public-option. I have no interest in wallowing through pages of mindless partisan dreck.

Your point was that conservatives are attacking Republicans who choose not to hew to party line, to the point where you called them Basij. I pointed out that liberals also attack Democrats who hew to party lines and provided evidence of that.

Are you claiming that the only example of this that matters must be related to cap and trade? More importantly, do you still believe that conservatives are less tolerant of those who buck party line than liberals?

Soothsayer

June 28th, 2009
11:35 am

Corporations provide Chinese, Indians, Vietnamese, etc. with jobs. Unfortunately, they are learning a hard truth: when you eliminate the jobs of the consuming public, i.e., U.S. citizens, you eliminate consumer demand which has resulted in the depression we are now experiencing. We aren’t the only ones suffering. The Chinese are on the verge of political upheaval because tens of millions who came to the cities for work are now unemployed. Our stimulus package(s) have been likened to bailing the boat (pumping in money) without fixing the holes in the hull (wholesale labor arbitrage).

mike

June 28th, 2009
11:36 am

getalife –

Well since in your juvenile and vulgar parlance, responding to a post is “leg humping”, you have humped my leg as often as I have humped yours today,hypocrite. If you don’t want me to respond to your posts, stop responding to mine, hypocrite. Do you understand, hypocrite?

josef nix

June 28th, 2009
11:37 am

KAMCHAK–and as for speaking the language and making the point without degenerting into quasi literate nyanh-nyanh, Rachel Maddow does a pretty fine job of it and if more pundits would follow her lead we might, just might, be able to return to some sense of civility.

clyde

June 28th, 2009
11:38 am

I beleive that Say’s Law says that supply creates it’s own demand.Just Saying.

md

June 28th, 2009
11:38 am

“But the corporation will NEVER be created until the demand is there first.”

Again, demand controls the number of jobs. Very few jobs exist outside a corporation. Even the one man show is or should be incorporated (thanks to our wonderful litigious society).

If you want to say demand also determines the number of corporations, so be it. But jobs are created within the corporation, not vise versa.

getalife

June 28th, 2009
11:38 am

At least Jay did not call them the American taliban but I will.

They need to increase security for those 8 gop.

josef nix

June 28th, 2009
11:38 am

md “two wrongs don’t make a right.”

Hear! Hear!

DoggoneGA

June 28th, 2009
11:42 am

“But jobs are created within the corporation, not vise versa.”

You’re ingnoring the main point: corporations would not exist, and therefore not create jobs, IF the demand does not exist first. Demand ALWAYS comes first. Everything else is a response to that demand. No demand, no jobs. Corporations NEVER creates jobs in a vacuum. If they did we wouldn’t be where we are now. They ONLY create jobs in response to a demand. Only.

getalife

June 28th, 2009
11:42 am

Just smacking you on the nose with the AJC leg humper.

As far as libs attacking dems that vote with the gop, they organize to defeat them in the next election.

Jay

June 28th, 2009
11:42 am

Thanks, Mike, for proving my point so well. As you document, it is perfectly OK to post harsh criticism of Olbermann on a decidedly liberal site such as DailyKos. Go read the comments on that post — http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/6/19/744340/-Has-Keith-Olbermann-Lost-It — and you’ll find that a lot of the liberals agreed with the author.

In fact, I agree with him too. I have never watched Olbermann, largely because on the occasions I have seen clips of his rants he has indeed struck me as too much like O’Reilly.

However, imagine a similar condemnation of Limbaugh posted on, say, Redstate. You can’t. And Mike, to borrow a four-note riff, someone who wasn’t blinded by partisanship would have to acknowledge that fact.

Kamchak

June 28th, 2009
11:44 am

Sorry josef–talk-radio is the standard for polispeak. Our resident leg-humper plays the Limbaugh card every time he shows up–that and the hyper partisan card, the ad hominem attack card, the hypocrite card….

josef nix

June 28th, 2009
11:47 am

JAY–thanks for the comment on Olbermann. There was a time when I tuned him in, surfing between him and Bill-O, then it got to the point I couldn’t tell which was which…

josef nix

June 28th, 2009
11:48 am

Kamchak–talk radio may be the standard for the extremes, but it is not now, nor has it ever been the standard for civil discourse.

getalife

June 28th, 2009
11:51 am

Funny, I posted at Hot Air that rush was just an entertainer, found a market making millions and should never be taken seriously.

They attacked me viciously and said he was their leader.

KO is doing the same thing but libs never call him a leader.

DoggoneGA

June 28th, 2009
11:55 am

“KO is doing the same thing but libs never call him a leader”

Yep, because “leading” libs is like trying to herd cats.

BadToWorse

June 28th, 2009
11:57 am

I am just soooo upset that some of the republicans have turned on some of the others.. actually.., who cares.

RW-(the original)

June 28th, 2009
11:58 am

Very telling that Jay B is on here harping away at mike, not entirely undeserved either, but totally ignoring josef pointing how completely over the top it is to compare people with honest, albeit hyperbolic, political differences to the Basjii that is slaughtering their opposition, literally, in the streets of Tehran.

Jay

June 28th, 2009
11:58 am

OK guys, I’m ducking out so I can make it to the Braves game on time. Don’t sit here all day, OK?

josef nix

June 28th, 2009
11:59 am

“Yep, because “leading” libs is like trying to herd cats.”

Which is why I like being one!

DoggoneGA

June 28th, 2009
12:02 pm

“Which is why I like being one!”

Yep, me too. You actually have to THINK to be a lib.

josef nix

June 28th, 2009
12:03 pm

RW-(the original)

Thanks, but it’s about what I expected. It’s what comes from, uh, policing your own!

DoggoneGA

June 28th, 2009
12:05 pm

“completely over the top it is to compare people with honest, albeit hyperbolic, political differences to the Basjii”

It’s called “rhetorical exageration” – it’s used all the time. Only the unimaginative take it literally.

mike

June 28th, 2009
12:06 pm

Jay –

So you still want to make the absurd argument that liberals are more tolerant of those who don’t hew to party line. Of course you do, as that is beleiveing that “they” are different than “us” is part and parcel of being a rigid and intolerant partisan.

If liberals are so tolerant of dissenters, how do you explain the posts that a cited and which you have conveniently ignored because you know they would disprove your silly argument? Maybe Joe Lieberman can tell you about how tolerant liberals are to those who are not mindless partisans?

Regardless, thanks for ducking my questions. I have come to expect your brand of one-sided conversation. It speaks to your wonderful liberal “tolerance”.