Passage of climate-change bill a landmark achievement

The deniers don’t have an honest argument anyway. Call their bluff. Ask them to put the money in escrow now for what it’ll take to clean up the mess if we do nothing and they turn out to be wrong. We’ll give it back in 50 years when we find out which side was right.

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Obowo’s slobbering masses are finally going to get some ‘change’:

1. If they even bother to do so already, they certainly won’t be able to pay their electric bills anymore…maybe they can take hope like Peggy Joseph.

2. The Chinese are going to own more of us, and our ’stuff’.

3. Those same Chinese will continue to belch pollution into the atmosphere, along with most all of Europe, making Dope & Chains look even more ignorant than he i now.

4. The cost of everything will climb exponentially – food, fuel, (insert everything else here), etc., etc.

All of this will come to pass unless the Senate gets a grip on reality (unlikely), and the drooling legions will cheer.

Stupidity reigns under Obowo, and you morons still support this catastrophe?

Idiots.

All of you, idiots.

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Thing is, this is (like, say, the Employee Free Choice Act) a fairly moderate approach to changing direction. Naturally the right-loons are going to exaggerate its consequences.

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“…climb exponentially…”

Well, I’m sure it’s idiotic of me to claim so but that sure beats the heck out of a boring linear or quadratic climb especially if it is accompanied by a logarithmic decline. They’re much more fun than those silly old hyperbolic sine slides. Got hyperbole there, bub, I mean, Bud.

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Real government acts proactively. The right hates that, as it hinders the opportunity to make money off disaster. And when your party puts dollars in front of citizens, any government that prioritizes quality of life is a problem.

Nice to see the concept of ‘leadership’ working its way back into Washington. Pandering has sooooooooooo worn out its welcome

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It’s going to cost me more for energy in 2010 than it does in 2009.That is a fact that everyone seems to agree on.We’re only arguing about the rate of increase.The costing more fact is making a lot of people happy and I just can’t figure out why.What is it you think you’re going to get for your money?What ,exactly,do you think this cost increase is going to do to improve your life?

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And the most important part-

Now it can quietly crash and burn in the Senate, hahahahahahaha.

The only reason it made it past the “moderates” in the House was the implicit guarantee that it would fail in the Senate and they wouldn’t have to face the wrath of their voters who don’t want the BS.

You libs have accomplished Nothing.

bwa

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Too bad it was done in the middle of the night, and nobody really knows what’s in it… it seems that it barely passed so even the “moderates” were iffy about it.

Cap n trade, pollution credits, it’s all BS. Our problems need to be addressed, impending lack of fresh water and oil is going to do us in long before pollution will…

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“Real government acts proactively. The right hates that,”

That’s a lie and you know it, “conservative” govts seek to be proactive on voting issues, voting “issues” that don’t exist, but they COULD… and they’re proactive on gay marriage, they work thier little tails off to make sure that won’t happen, nevermind that the “sanctity of marriage” doesn’t really apply to the heterosexuals of “conservative” persuasion…

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We’re not exactly leading the world anywhere when you use the qualifier that we already emit “more than our share” since that just gives anyone else cover to do nothing.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Back in March it seemed pretty shocking that John Conyers said it was high time to investigate ACORN and it’s dubious ties to the Obama campaign and donor list. Flash forward and we see that Conyer’s wife was being prosecuted on various federal charges. This week she copped a guilty plea and stands convicted of conspiracy to commit bribery. Just after she took the plea Conyer’s decided to drop the investigation into ACORN.

How much time, out of the possible five years, does anyone think Mrs. C will serve? Chicago politics, Detroit style.

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Methinks Andy doth know too much about what goes on in the wilds of the Chattahootchee National Preserve after dark… probably knows the trail around the lake at Piedmont park pretty well too….

ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

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That’s alright RW (the original), W done set the bar low there by commuting Libby’s sentence for treason… Obama can just commute any sentence Mrs. C gets…

ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

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Thanks, Toe Tapper. I forgot to apply GOP logic — lie about it because that’s how the truth is created.

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Our corrupt Senate will killl it but it was 8 gop yes votes that made the difference.

Big oil finally lost one.

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“More greenhouse gas per capita than anywhere else in the world.”

Gee, if we could just get Jay, Al & Queen Nancy to shut up for a week, we wouldn’t need this worthless legislation.

Hurry up, mid-term elections. This madness MUST end.

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After the Senate kills it and the economy recovers, 4 bucks a gallon gas and giving billions to people who blow up our buildings and troops will come back.

Sane Americans think that is insane but cons like it .

More proof that conservatism is a mental disorder,

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I remember during the presidential campaign it kept being stated Obama has no experience and can’t lead. Well, guess what. I think we are seeing a true leader. I love it.

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Booger wants certainty. Sorry, boog, but we haven’t had certainty in life in … well, since forever.

We will always seem strange and scary if all we ever do is wait for the people who want to study something to death. Cap-and-trade has been around a long time. From the EPA site: Examples of successful cap and trade programs include the nationwide Acid Rain Program and the regional NOx Budget Trading Program in the Northeast.

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“I mean, people are calling him out and letting the world know that he is a liar and he just keeps on spouting the lie”

It’s the Cons mantra: never let the truth get in the way of a good talking point

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“How do you folks here know Canter is lying and Walsh is not? I’m confused!”

You know, it helps if you actually READ WHAT JAY POSTS: “… critics have vastly overstated the likely cost. In fact, they’re all but lying. During the House debate, Republican whip Eric Cantor, using numbers from an American Petroleum Institute study, said that the bill would eventually cost more than $3,000 per family per year — but those numbers assume that billions of tons worth of inexpensive carbon offsets won’t be available under the bill, which would significantly inflate the overall cost”

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You sheeple are too funny.

What exactly is the difference between $4 a gallon gas and that same gas under an inflated dollar?

Do you people actually think inflation and higher taxes are the recipe for a recovering economy?

How many of you actually think even more manufacturing will not go offshore? I can tell you as a fact that many are already in the process of doing just that as we have been doing the negotiations.

Why does gov’t feel they must cram this down our throats? How about incentives for producing green jobs, etc. and ween us off in a truly capitalistic way, instead of dictatorship.

Look at the numbers folks, all the numbers. What they report is bits and pieces, the bits they want you to know. Look beyond that and get a clue that every business in this country will be effected and guess what, you and I will pay for their increases along with our own. Inflation will take off like a rocket if the Senate is as assinine as the House.

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“I read it twice! So, howdoes Jay know who is lying?”

Read it again then: “those numbers assume that billions of tons worth of inexpensive carbon offsets won’t be available under the bill, which would significantly inflate the overall cost” – Cantor is using number that DO NOT INCLUDE the carbon offsets, therefore he is lying about the potential cost.

“Thanks again for the explanation of C & T yesterday.”

You’re welcome.

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Quote: “It won’t mean much.”

But it will cost us a ton, maybe even destroy the economy totally. Absurd!

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Well we could always look at an analysis of the bill’s costs to see who’s lying. My apologies in advance for the lengthy excerpt.

What are those costs? According to the analysis we conducted at The Heritage Foundation, which is attached to my written statement, the higher energy costs kick in as soon as the bill’s provisions take effect in 2012. For a household of four, energy costs go up $436 that year, and they eventually reach $1,241 in 2035 and average $829 annually over that span. Electricity costs go up 90 percent by 2035, gasoline by 58 percent, and natural gas by 55 percent by 2035. The cumulative higher energy costs for a family of four by then will be nearly $20,000.

But direct energy costs are only part of the consumer impact. Nearly everything goes up, since higher energy costs raise production costs. If you look at the total cost of Waxman-Markey, it works out to an average of $2,979 annually from 2012-2035 for a household of four. By 2035 alone, the total cost is over $4,600.

Overall, Waxman-Markey reduces gross domestic product by an average of $393 billion annually between 2012 and 2035, and cumulatively by $9.4 trillion. In other words, the nation will be $9.4 trillion poorer with Waxman-Markey than without it.

Cue the wailing about the Heritage Foundation in 3…2…1….

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“Dollar here, dollar there and you folks don’t even care”

Certainly we care. Here’s something we also aren’t being told: the cost of energy is going to go UP regardless of what we do. If we do nothing then, as a non-renewable resource, the cost of oil will rise due to increasing demand and limited supplies.

So we have a choice: do nothing and our energy costs will rise, or do what we can to reduce our dependence on a limited resource and pay the increase cost for THAT instead.

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They did not read the bill but at 3;30 am on the morning of the vote, they added a 300 page amendment.

Boner was pis-sed and read some of it for over an hour. Very complicated with expansion and power for the EPA and other agencies.

The gop propsed the idea of a Manhatten project and paying 25 billion. It failed .

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“the cost of energy is going to go UP regardless of what we do.”

A little hypocritical to make a statement like that after your 11:49, isn’t it?

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“A little hypocritical to make a statement like that after your 11:49, isn’t it?”

Nope. It wasn’t ME complaining about reports in “bits and pieces”…plus, as you yourself said: it’s simple economics.

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A lot of talk about leadership. Well, if leadership is out of control spending then we have it in spades. Were you here when he “lead” us into a $750million dollar stimulus plan. This was your money. Despite his OMB telling him it wouldn’t work, he did it anyway. It hasn’t worked. Joe Biden in a recent interview stated, “we’ll we thought it would work.

I’m just afraid we are going to hear a lot of “we thought it would work” in the upcoming months and years.

And for those of you who think it is working, I assure you between the Admin., and the press. If there was any real evidence, you would hear about it constantly.

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“And “Cap and trade” is the only alternative?”

It’s AN alternative. It works in other areas, as another poster pointed out.

“Going green makes sense. Killing the economy to do it does not.”

They aren’t mutually exclusive. And you STILL have not provided any PROOF that cap-and-trade will “kill” the economy.

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Also, GE has set up a new division to trade carbon . It’s a new billion dollar trading industry.

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Come on Andy.

I thought you are a palin lover.

John “Long face” Kerry.

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Simple economics? You mean..if you spend all your money you are broke? Nawwww……”nothing in life is free?” Nawww…the Obama simple economics:”If you don’t have any money, spend it!”

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“the Obama simple economics:”If you don’t have any money, spend it!”

And that makes him different from BUSH, how? You DO know that we borrowed the money for his Iraq war from the Chineses, don’t you? So which would you rather do: borrow to pay for a war against a country that was no threat to us, or borrow to rescue our economy from “crash and burn”?

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RW,

I was being conservative lest Jay accuse me of lying.

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“the Obama simple economics:”If you don’t have any money, spend it!””

Correction if I may:

“If you don’t have any money, just ask uncle sugar for some and we’ll take it from someone who does have money, and then you can spend it”

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Dear Doggone,

As hard as you try, you do NOT get even one carbon credit for trying to blame Obama’s obfuscations on Bush, the bottom line on pointless excuses.

Bush gave us safety from terrorism and a start for freedom in two countries. Very worthwhile for the USA.

The only thing Obama is giving us is the highest deficiences ever seen, with jigsaw plans to suit every malady from the real to the suppositional. The realities of real life and economics seem to escape him.

Frankly, my dear, Bush protected us. Obama perpetuates bankruptcy for the USA. Too bad you can’t see it.

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I don’t want to break your heart or anything, Abnormal, but it’s not like I’m posting my comments with your mental disorders in mind.

Hire a psychiatrist, sweetheart.

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Here is the question you may want to ask yourselves:

In this era of partisan politics, 8 republicans voted for the bill and 40 democrats voted against it. I would think if it was such a great idea, all the democrats would have been on board. Might want to read up on why they voted against it and snubbed their president and party.

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Hopefully this liberal Al Gore climate bill tripe will be pronounced DOA in the Senate, where it is expected to meet a tougher battle for passage.

Save America and green the world, outsource these liberals to China – where the socialist comrades might actually do some earthly good.

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DUSTY: Bush gave us safety from terrorism and a start for freedom in two countries. Very worthwhile for the USA.
———————-
You can’t prove this..All you can say we haven’t been attacked, they just might have been a one shot pony. As to the sart of freedom for two countries…HAHAHA..there is no start, no freedom..only hundreds of thousands of deaths…G-d.
——————–
Don’t fall out your chair leaning left on this subject. If you want to pay higher energy bills, that your perogative. It aint mine, honey!!
——————–
Bottom line, we are going to have higher bills regardless, so quit whining about it and prepare for it…
———————–
Brutus, sir: I don’t want to break your heart or anything, Abnormal, but it’s not like I’m posting my comments with your mental disorders in mind.
—————————–
This is true, you post your comments just to hear yourself pass gass…eeewwwww!

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Much of what is being said here is well over my head. I’m the little lost duck in the woods when it comes to economics. I take a bit of cold comfort in knowing I’m pretty much the average Joe Shmo there, no excuse but comforting nonetheless. So, I won’t go spouting off here about things I know nothing about.

However the throwing around of this, that or the other figure really means nothing in a society where we have gone to using figures with enough zeroes to make you curse the Arabs for ever bringing the concept from India. Only a Zimbabwean consumer could even attempt to relate. RW makes a good point on that.

The filter down effect will soon be adding those zeroes to the price of eggs and before we can say Achtung we’ll be rolling our salaries out in wheelbarrows on payday with a purchasing power well below what used to jingle in our pockets.

Secondly, where is this money to come from? Obviously, to me anyway, just crank up the presses, add a couple of shifts.

The lunatics have taken over the asylum and anything coming out of Washington should be met with distrust as a matter of course.

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The U.S. Chamber of Commerce and the National Association of Manufacturers lobbied against passage.-Wall Street Journal

dimocrats, destroying the US economy, one gigantic chunk at a time.

Just like I said they would.

I rule.

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Well, Normal, I won’t waste time trying to convince you that terrorists wanted to continue attacks on America. Just because they said so and acted like it doesn’t mean a thing. One shot pony!

It was indeed a one shot because Bush read the riot act to terrorists and Osama sits in a cave to this day, not even able to direct traffic.

Trying to rearrange the climate also rearranges the costs of energy. It gets higher. Even Obama said so. (Or did he change his mind?)

So I gather you are pleased at the suggestion that energy costs will rise to keep the sky blue. Let’s have on verse of “Am I blue? Am I blue? To be true, I’m thinking of you..” I think Satchmo did this best!
Better than Obama for sure.

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Go breathe your ‘healthy’ air, morons. You’ll need it.

Obowo and all the slobbering masses and media types that worship him are idiots. Congress has made sure that they won’t have to be bothered either with the new socialized medicine, as on page 114 of the proposal is the statement that Congress will be ‘exempt’ from having to participate: Translation for you mentally challenged 94%ers – they keep their cushy health plan and you get the no choice, again, unless you are union (another potential exemptee).

BUT, so many corporations will be dumping their plans that the private sector individual costs will soar so much, that virtually everyone will be forced into the govt keeping shed.

Line up and start taking your numbers now, 94$ers, just like KMart.

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joseph nix, 1:29

That’s not Peronism 101. That’s Chavezism II based on Fidel Fidelities of Communism Contemplations. Aint you got no learning??

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DUSTY; I will be glad to pay a little more to keep the sky blue, if that is what it takes. I would like to think my grandkids grandkids will be able to see that same blue sky, instead of…say, a red one.
——————-
I don’t like President Bush and you don’t like President Obama. I get it. But I base my dislikes on the pure fact the man and his “posse” did more to harm this country than the Romans did to Carthage. President Bush’s legacy is history, there to read and discuss.
Your dislike of President Obama is based on what? He hasn’t been in office long enough to have a legacy and he’s been like the little Dutch boy, trying to stop the leaks in Bush’s dike. Give President Obama a chance.
Sure, I voted for him, but it was because I wanted us out of the war and our people home, and if that does not happen soon, I won’t vote for him again regardless. BUT, LISTEN TO ME, if we do get out of Iraq and Afganistan soon, you will see just how little “freedom and/or Democracy we left there. They will kill each other for years, period.
——————–
One other thing, I am only left leaning to you because I’m closer to center than you are…Just sayin’

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Dear Doggone,

I will answer your question. Yes we did learn about exchanging pieces of paper. The Feds just announced that we are returning to WAMPUM. It’s a CHANGE! Now we get straight arrow talk from the Big White Washington Wigwam.

Frankly, my dear, I think we are being scalped!

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“When opponents are forced to lie so blatantly — in this case exaggerating the likely cost 17 times over — they don’t have much of an honest argument.”

And if you constantly have to accuse those who disagree with you of being immoral, you don’t have much of an argument either. Then again, what do you expect from Jay? Civil disagreement? Nah. You either agree with Jay or you are a bad person.

All of that out of the way, this bill is going to be expensive and provide little results. As the article explains, “the bill will achieve most of its stated carbon cuts through offsets and through improving energy efficiency, rather than encouraging the growth of low-carbon renewable electricity.” The problem is that “carbon offsets are dicey, and may not actually provide the emissions reductions they claim to. (Studies have called into question the quality of the offsets run under the U.N.’s Kyoto Protocol system.)”

We will be imposing a tax on American citizens that will produce marginal positive effects while giving companies yet another reason to choose to operate somewhere other than the US.

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NORMAL–you may have a solution to the energy crisis there, ya know…h**ll, you ought to be able to git at leas’ a million or two if’n you kin fine the right line to git in… Liked that alluding to Carthage!

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joseph nix,

Ha..how they fooled you! You know that innocent little Evita was the power behind the tenacious throne of poseur Peron. The women there rule! Strong men pass faster than lightning with a strong woman behind them. Convenience? Haven’t they got another one kicking up her heels there now? NO, I don’t mean the dear governor’s soulmate of sorts. (Shhh, I did not mean to start that one again.) I mean el presidente la femme Argentinivita.

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Dusty–Ain’t Cristina something else! Hillary needs to be taking notes.

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Bosch –

“Normal @ 1:49 – well said.”

What? The tired old partisan argument of “my hatred of “your guys” is justified, but your hatred of “my guy” is not”?

Please. That trite line of logic is used by all shades of mindless partisan. Do you really think Rush’s dittoheads are any less convinced?

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Mike, Yes I did know that, but in the beginning, I felt that was the place to fight and not Iraq…but now they have both become treeless Viet Nam’s…Just sayin’…

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Josef, you said earlier you are gettin’ the grill warmed up, so what’s the menu? I was thinking about grilling, but I just might pick up a mess of lemon pepper wings and fried rice and take ‘em home. By the way, have you tried Surf Dog yet? Nice little wine. Don’t think the dog had anything to do with it…just hopin’

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NORMAL–The Unmentionable will have his steak, I’ll probably just go for the burger…haven’t tried Surf Dog. I’ll put it on his list…

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Dusty,

Wheaties, spinach, and onions over cheesy shrimp grits? Are you crazy?

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DUSTY: Maybe the twain will never meet but I think history will bring it together.
—————
Between you, me and the fence post, I hope so, I just don’t think so, but I DO hope so…

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NORMAL–Golda Meir asked that question and never got an answer

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Agreed it’s ihateobamaism and it’s met with ihatebushism, neither of which is very productive.

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Soon there’ll nothing to blog about if something isn’t done to stop the liberal march to communism.

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Jay, I am now convinced that you are just too far gone. You say, “It will do little good”. Americans are going to pay out the nose for this in basically everything in their lives, they are going to lose jobs because of it and the rest of the world is going to capitalize on it because of you and your kinds stupidity. Jay, your opinion is totally skewed by your liberal politics. Another blow to America dealt by the insane.

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Just love the name “Climate Change Bill”. Use to be Global Warming but the cold temps continued to get in the way as well as the normal temps weren’t cooperating too well either..just kinda stayed within a degree or 2 over the last 100 hundred years. So now we’ve all come to the consensus that it is Climate Change. Well of course it does, even you libs can grasp this fact. In and around October the temperature changes and it gets a little to a lot cooler…in and around May the temperature changes again and it gets a little to a lot warmer. So there…..the climate does change. Oh by the way, it didn’t cost us a dime to make these startling observations. The intergalactic stupidity of some people to spend millions of dollars to conclude that the climate changes. PS….It has done so for 1000s if not millions of years. PS#2…the earth is not flat!!!

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Oh right, the Washington Post…snort..

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The cons have given up. They can’t figure out how to tie a piece of white cloth to a pole, but make no mistake about it, they’ve surrendered.

No alternatives. No ideas. No prospects.

Just stuck on stupid.

And endless BushCo-esque foot dragging, b&llsh_t and deadly ineptitude.

This cast of flounderers is never going to do the right thing. No matter what the issue – Iraq, the environment, the corporate destruction of capitalism, legislating morality… Ad infinitum and ad nauseum.

Notwithstanding the basic and glaring problems with cap and trade, the Party of No falls into two equally specious and shallow camps – it cost too much and it’s unfair. And they could no more propose a superior alternative than Mark Sanford could stay off the Appalachian Trail. (Wink, wink, nudge, nudge…)

And as Bud keeps reminding us, accordingly they have lost 94% of the contested national races since 2004. 63 out of 67. Stunning.

And as your credibility is in the toilet, prepare for more of the same, neo-conned…

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Good for you Clyde, now do better and feed a horse…the resession has made them homeless too…

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clyde

June 27th, 2009
5:47 pm

I’ve put saving on hold and have been tryng to stimulate the economy since April 2008. I invite the rest of you that have enough savings and a dependable income to join me.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090626/bs_nm/us_usa_economy

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TNGelding,
I have not been much of a stimulator of the economy since 2007.I recently put my money back in the market in preferred bank stocks and my broker and I are buying and selling short term.We are making money out of the stimulus.This money will not be used any time soon to stimulate the economy.Spend if you like TN,but I’ll hold for the time being.

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“As hard as you try, you do NOT get even one carbon credit for trying to blame Obama’s obfuscations on Bush”

But I wasn’t trying to “blame them on Bush”…I was only pointing out the Obama is doing the same thing that Bush did, just for a different reason. If you don’t like Obama for raising our national debt…then you shouldn’t like Bush either…because he did the same thing.

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dimocrats think that if it shows up at the gas pump, power bill, doctor’s office or anywhere else you transact your hard earned money, then it isn’t a tax.

And so do their dumbas-s voters, hahahahaha.

What stooges.

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WASHINGTON (AP) – One of President Barack Obama’s campaign pledges on taxes went up in puffs of smoke Wednesday.

“I can make a firm pledge,” he said in Dover, N.H., on Sept. 12. “Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes.”

And-

Barack Obama targets offshore tax havens

Cap and tax is just that, a tax, and do tell us, stooge, will Obozo veto it?

hahahahaha, yeah, ok

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“This is also good timing since the junk science of “global warming” is being outed around the world.”

Really?

I guess the term overwhelming consensus is a big farce huh? Doesn’t exist. All made up.

Nobody like National Geographic, NASA’s Goddard Institute of Space Studies, National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, National Academy of Sciences, State of the Canadian Cryosphere, The Environmental Protection Agency, The Royal Society of the UK, The American Geophysical Union, The American Meteorological Society, The American Institute of Physics, The National Center for Atmospheric Research andTthe Canadian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society.

Yep a bunch of johnny-come-lately, unproven and amateurish organizations if I ever I saw some…

Or from the University of Illinois at Chicago: http://www.physorg.com/news151609044.html

A group of 3,146 earth scientists surveyed around the world overwhelmingly agree that in the past 200-plus years, mean global temperatures have been rising, and that human activity is a significant contributing factor in changing mean global temperatures.

Two questions were key: have mean global temperatures risen compared to pre-1800s levels, and has human activity been a significant factor in changing mean global temperatures.

About 90 percent of the scientists agreed with the first question and 82 percent the second.

In analyzing responses by sub-groups, Doran found that climatologists who are active in research showed the strongest consensus on the causes of global warming, with 97 percent agreeing humans play a role. Petroleum geologists and meteorologists were among the biggest doubters, with only 47 and 64 percent respectively believing in human involvement. Doran compared their responses to a recent poll showing only 58 percent of the public thinks human activity contributes to global warming.

Some of the worst of the reality and science averse are in BIG time denial.

Which is really rather funny…

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Quit seeing your doctor, stop heating your home, never drive your car again, hey, you’re right, Obozo hasn’t raised taxes!

Well, duh!

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So it’s a tax of choice, one can avoid paying it by not smoking…

ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

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As a matter of fact, it is Bush’s original plan that will ultimately raise federal income taxes. His tax cuts are set to expire in 2011. That is how Bush planned on getting back on track to controlling the massive amount of debt that he created. He just did not bother to expound on that little fact with his constituency. Now, if permanent tax cuts were the great and wonderful panacea that the GOP espoused, then why would they make them temporary. Well, that one is easy, even for my simple mind — because it was all a lie, simply more pandering for votes. Duh. Well.

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And, the national debt increased by five trillion dollars while Bush was in office and he even left us with the worst recession since the Great Depression as a little present. Too bad five trillion dollars does not buy anything better than that! We’ll just have to wait and see how Obama’s term ends up. After all, it is over seven years away.

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Seek your lost mind- Yeah, comfort yourself with lunacy, there you go, it isn’t like the democrats were in charge of federal spending the last two years of Bush’s term.

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clyde

June 27th, 2009
6:37 pm

Think it might be timed to make its biggest impact right before the next election? Good luck with your investments. Keep an eye on that broker. I thought it was good that savings (highest rate since Clinton)and consumer sentiment were up, as well as spending.

If we could get the troops home they could start stimulating our economy instead of Japan’s and S. Korea’s. And we sure need to save what’s being spent in Iraq and Afghanistan. Not to mention the lives being lost.

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The Republicans were totally in charge back when the Bush tax cuts, the cuts that expire in 2011, were signed off on. Republicans made those tax cuts temporary. What did they know that they were not openly discussing with their constituency.

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One might be able to avoid paying the latest cigarette tax by not smoking, but those revenues supposedly fund SCHIP so they’re going to get to us all eventually.

/Unless you libs are saying you want to withhold health care for the children you’re always using as human shields.

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getalife,

It really only took 4 Republicans. Switch 4 of those yays to nays and the bill loses 216-215.

/Of course I’m sure a few Dems would have gotten some bribe money at that point.

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I don’t smoke, so I don’t pay taxes on smokes and I am healthier for it so my healthcare costs less.

I have a garden so I get many vegetables for less than if I purchased them at the store and I do not use any pesticides or herbicides so I know that they are safer to eat and I get exercise in tending to my garden so that helps me stay in better shape.

I have a well and a septic system so I don’t need the government to mess with that. It is working just fine.

I don’t have a windmill but I am keeping an eye on solar panels and other options for generating power. Our house is already quite energy efficient according to the results from our power company’s assessment. They even gave us a special rebate for meeting or exceeding all of their energy conservation criteria.

I’m already paying taxes toward the public school system and I’m available to help my child with school work whenever needed so I see no advantage to home schooling.

I am definitely in favor of not fighting needless wars. The expense is killing us as well as our soldiers and other innocent people. As for soothing words, “Just say NO to drugs, I mean, terrorism”.

Finally, President Obama is free to use all of my information as is anyone else that happens to read this post or any of my other posts. I hope it helps.

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And the cap & trade tax will be voluntary just like the cig tax. Just don’t drive or heat and cool you home. Income tax is voluntary also, no income, no tax. I love liberal logic.

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명. 고맙습니다 , Reverend Phelps.

(Kamsahamnida)

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Seeker, CONGRATS!!!!

You are already following my plan, almost step by step. I knew it was a good one. Have you called Obama yet with the good news?

You will have to skip the part about not needing the miitary as I have noticed now that he is sending many, many troops to increase the number in Afghanistan. That naughty president! Broke his promise. You better send him another white flag. He forgot!!

Best wishes for the garden, the solar panels, the rebates, the chickens, the septic tank and your continued good health. You’re a mighty fine liberated female. I bet you even wear birkenstocks. I’m am personally sending you three carbon credits!! No need to thank me.

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“I have noticed now that he is sending many, many troops to increase the number in Afghanistan”

But he’s also reducing them in Iraq. Net change = none. But he IS putting the troops where they should have been all along.

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DoggoneGA,

You are sooo correct. Democrats think for themselves. Barbara Boxer(D) showed that military general a thing or two about “thinking”.

“Call me SENATOR!” she barked to the military general who dared to call her “Ma’m” in a conversation on the Senate floor!!

Yes, sir, not only are Democrats great thinkers, they are loaded with …errr…charm.

But I forgot. That is why they voted for Obama. Charisma, baby, CHA-RIS-MA!!!!

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Faux News! THat’s where that guy, Hannity works. The guy that likes to cut and paste other people’s words in order to make up what he wants others to hear. He’s a sick little puppy.

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“not only are Democrats great thinkers”

I did not use the word “great” – but if you want to give them credit for that, I don’t think they’ll object.

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doggone,

Yep, I credited Boxer as a great thinker. You probably thought that was for real. Figures.

As to Obama, during the election he mentioned bringing the troops HOME. Then he changed to Afghanistan. Irate lib commentators have mentioned that Obama now sounds just like Bush on the military. How about that! Could be that Obama finally found out what Bush already knew.

As to cut’n'paste, I thought you and Seeker liked Bookman’s blog. He does a cut’b'paste job every day “in order to make up what he wants others to hear”. You think he copies the methods of Hannity?

Well, getting late. Goodnight.

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Gee, a liberal columnist cites a story written by Time magazine reporter who uses numbers from the economic director Environmental Defense Fund.

And my bullshoi antennae should NOT be going off – why . . . ?

Bookman, you’re a waste of carbon. Can we offset you?

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Thanks, I needed that:

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/cobb/stories/2009/06/27/unemployed_blessing.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab

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Can we have a parade when they tax oxygen?

Dummys

w

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Damn, I hate that I had no time yesterday to visit Jay’s Chat Room.

This is a landmark event, but the total opposite of achievment.

One example of boondoggle:
People who own forest will be paid millions if they delay, that’s right delay, harvesting the wood for 2 – 4 years. Of course, just like humans, much more carbon dioxide is used by a young tree than an old ready for harvest tree. Plus the harvest and replanting would generate many jobs. Not harvesting generates zero jobs, only money for the forest owners.

There are many more profit-intensive-low-benefit elements of Cap and Trade.

And for you Warming Believers out there, when Jay writes that opponents exaggerate cost by 17%, he is purposefully lying. He and you know that the cost per household will be much more than $175. If we are lucky, maybe, just maybe, that cost will only be $1,500.

And how will the our Climate benefit? Not at all.

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Looks like the wingnut trolls were at it late last night. They must’ve been having collective nightmares of Obama…

I thought Nena was killed in Iran last week…

ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

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The United States produced enough oil to supply it’s own demand until 1970. In that year the U.S. had to start importing oil to meet the demand. Hence, a statement, after 1970, to the effect that we are “running out” is correct. Further, the situation has only worsened over the years, as we have chosen to ignore President Carter’s timely warning and listen instead to the oil companies and others that were motivated purely by greed.

Per the CIA factbook, in 2007, the US was consuming 20,680,000 bbl/day of oil while producing only 8,457,000 bbl/day. The difference was obviously being imported from countries including Venezuela, Canada, Saudi Arabia, etc. And, that’s just the beginning of that story — a story that people like Newt Gingrich will not share with you because it would make you realize that he is nothing but a paid announcer for the big oil interests. “Drill here, Drill Now, Pay less” is worse than a simple lie. It is a cruel trick to play on an uninformed constituency. Then again, some people will do anything for a shot at money or power.

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Andy taps his toe and bleats:
“The danger is that American people will get impatient. They won’t see this as an evolutionary process in Iran. They will start pushing for us to come out really strongly on the side of the opposition, which will just totally destroy them [the reformers]. We’ve go to be disciplined. We’ve got to think with our head and not our heart. This is going to be ongoing. This is just the first round.”-Urinal/A Pee/ObozoBS”

Uhhhh… it’s really none of our business to be quite honest, other than a passing world event of some interest, it’s just simply none of our business… If it were up to us to take out tyrants in the world, which it is not, then we’ve got a long list of tyrants to take out…

ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

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Joey

June 28th, 2009
7:25 am

Don’t worry, it ain’t gonna happen. It will never get out of the Senate.

But does anyone really know what it would cost? What is it going to cost to do nothing, other than lives?

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TnG and Joey,

Some facts might be useful. There are many posts here about China, India and the rest of the developing world “continuing to belch pollution” while we try to clean up. The fact is that China and India combined use about the same total amount of energy as the US, and have a combined 8 times our population…so we’re using about 8 times as much energy/person.

These are developing countries, wealth is rising, and energy use/person is growing…meaning they’ll demand more oil in the future, meaning more competition for oil and higher prices. That is, unless you assume that the recession will continue to reduce demand forever. The markets have already made a bet that emerging economies will rebound faster than we will (emerging markets are up about 62% this year, hope that’s where you invested your 201K). Incremental demand for oil historically drives prices exponentially…so it’s reasonable to bet on much higher prices for oil than we’re seeing today.

I admit to not getting into the nuts and bolts of the Petroleum Institute study, but will bet my nest paycheck that $150-$250/barrel oil was not factored into their “cost per person” calculations. Nor was the impact of a continued $1 BILLION PER DAY trade deficit for oil imports.

Investing in alternative energy sources won’t be cheap, there’s no doubt that we’ll all pay. Carbon tax is probably not the right solution. And it won’t get out of the Senate. But we’d better get real on looking at the whole problem, environment, trade deficit, and competitive impacts of our heavy reliance on imported oil, and think about making lemonade…which in our capitalistic society means figuring out how to make products that either save oil or replace it with something that we, not the Saudi and Iranians, make a profit on.

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The cons can see nothing past their noses. At their own suffering and due to their own self-imposed blindness, they wanna keep the status quo.

It’s their disease.

That they want to keep stuffing the wallets of the Venezuelans, Saudis, Nigerians, Angolans, Iraqis, Colombians, Russians, Algerians and Kuwaitis tells one pretty much all they need to know.

And like the pollution they so love, they keep belching the same noxious fumes and toxins…

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See—the thing is—there is no method of “greening” Coal-fired Power Plants…

So…, instead…, the Climate Bill channels BILLIONS of dollars to the fantasy that is called Clean Coal, such that King Coal makes out like a bandit, while the consumer pays and pays…

Here Read:

+ The illusion of clean coal / The Economist:

–“The world is investing too much cash and hope in carbon capture and storage.”

+ Trouble in store—Carbon capture and storage / The Economist,

+ The Dirty Truth About Clean Coal / BusinessWeek,

+ The Dirt on Clean Coal / The Nation

+ King Coal’s Latest Con Job—Clean Coal is Not Clean / CommonDreams,

+ The ‘Clean Coal’ Lobbying Blitz / The Center for Public Integrity:

+Clean Coal / Wikipedia:
“… scrubbers will do nothing to reduce greenhouse gases: Scrubbers remove some particulates, SO2 , Hg(2+) , and SO3 – pollution that causes smog – but they will do nothing to reduce greenhouse gas emissions that cause global warming.”

–“They’re the American Coalition for Clean Coal Electricity, a collection of 48 mining, rail, manufacturing, and power-generating companies with an annual budget of more than $45 million — almost three times larger than the coal industry’s old lobbying and public relations groups combined.”

+ Clean Coal or Dirty Coal? / Alternative Energy Blog:

–“… Peabody Energy, the world’s largest coal company spent over 5% of its revenues on political contributions, for comparison Exxon Mobil and General Motors spent a fraction of one percent. In seeming return for such generosity, The Energy Policy Act of 2005 included five billion dollars of subsidies for the coal industry.”

+Stimulus Money Puts Clean Coal Projects on a Faster Track / NY Times:

–“The allocation of $3.4 billion in the federal stimulus bill for carbon capture and sequestration, as carbon storage is often called, however, has allowed Duke Energy and other companies to consider mounting full-scale projects.”

+ Climate Change Protection, or Climate Change Assurance? / Bloggers for Change:

–“… the 1,200-page bill would also devote $60 billion to making sure clean coal isn’t a loser.”

+ The Case Against Carbon Trading / Transnational Institute:

–”… Citigroup’s Peter Atherton confessed that the European Union’s Emission Trading Scheme had ‘done nothing to curb emissions.’ He admitted, … Prices up, emissions up, profits up …’ Who wins and loses? Coal and nuclear-based generators–biggest winners. Hedge funds and energy traders–even bigger winners. Losers … Consumers!”

+ Why China Could Blame Its CO2 on West / WSJ, 11/12/07:

–”If you have emission constraints, it’s become very attractive to relocate dirty production to developing countries … You import the finished goods, and leave the pollution in China.”

+ Nuclear Saviors: How Global Warming And Al Gore May Rescue the Nuclear Power Industry / CounterPunch:

–the financial stakes are staggering—“American companies, such as GE, CBS Corp (formerly Westinghouse) and Bechtel, desperately crave those multi-billion dollar contracts.”

+ Nuclear’s CO2 cost ‘will climb’ / BBC News, 04/30/08.

–”The case for nuclear power as a low carbon energy source to replace fossil fuels has been challenged in a new report by Australian academics.”

+ Integrity in the Balance: Al Gore’s Record On the Environment / CorpWatch:

“Terri Swearingen has heard enough of Al Gore’s promises on the environment. “There may be some that believe he is a premier environmentalist, but not me,” says the forty-three year old registered nurse and mother.”

“For nearly a decade, Swearingen has watched as the children of her quaint, working-class town in the Ohio river valley grow sicker and sicker. ‘It seems like every day we hear of a new cancer,’ she says. ‘Our children are getting cancer at a rate forty percent above the national average. In the past six months we’ve had two children develop a rare form of eye cancer. Do you know how unlikely that is for a town of our size?’
“In a campaign stop in Ohio, then-vice presidential candidate Al Gore blasted the incinerator as an “unbelievable” idea and promised outraged environmentalists that the Clinton/Gore team would ‘be on your side for a change.’”

“He followed up his pledge with an official press release calling for ‘a thorough investigation’ because ‘too many questions remain unanswered about the impact of this incinerator and the process by which it was approved.’”

“But that was Al Gore the candidate. And in those heady days of the election campaign, he probably didn’t realize that one of the financiers of the incinerator was none other than an investment banker from Little Rock, Arkansas, named Jack Stephens. Not only does Stephens finance incinerators, he finances politicians, including the Clinton/Gore campaign to the tune of $100,000 in 1992.”

“A bank subsidiary of his company even extended the campaign a $3.5 million credit line. Not surprisingly after the election, Gore quickly dropped the incinerator issue-and the plant continues to operate despite repeated failures of quality control tests. Gore has also remained silent on an on-going grand jury investigation into allegations that employees of the North Ohio Valley Air Authority accepted bribes to find the plant in compliance with environmental restrictions.”

In fact, the Magnetic Levitation Wind Turbine simply uses PERMANENT MAGNETS to provide power equal to a small Nuclear Power Plant—at a tiny fraction of the price-tag…

The MagLev’s low-center-of-gravity = perfect for offshore = areas surrounding the US = 24/7!!!

And the MagLev’s low friction = operates off of wind as slow as 3 mph!!!

Here Read:

+ Popular Science’s 20th Annual Best of What’s New Awards / Nanosolar Homepage:

–This honor goes to the remarkably designed PowerSheet flexible solar cells. Imagine a solar panel without the panel. Nanosolar has created an ink that takes sunlight and converts it into electricity. The ink is coated onto metal sheets as thin as aluminum foil with a printing-press-like device. The sheets are lighter, inexpensive and as efficient as traditional solar panels. The editors of PopSci believe that eventually every commercial rooftop could be carpeted with PowerSheet solar cells.”

Wind/Solar could make very clean Hydrogen for “rainy days.”

Of course, the distribution problem with Hydrogen Cars is not a problem with Hydrogen Power plants, nor with Hydrogen Jumbo Jets…

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