There’s just one choice this week, and you know it
You knew it had to be him.
UPDATE:
The parallels with Elvis continue. Says the Washington Post:
The county coroner began an autopsy on the singer’s body, which an official there said would take several hours. A cause of death is not likely today, said Lt. Brian Elias of the LA County Coroner’s Office Investigations division, and might not be made public for a week or more, pending the results of toxicology and other tests.
Police interviewed a doctor who had been at Jackson’s posh rented Holmby Hills home when the singer went into cardiac arrest and towed the man’s car. “His car was impounded because it may contain medications or other evidence that may assist the coroner in determining the cause of death,” police spokeswoman Karen Rayner said. Detectives interviewed the physician briefly and were seeking to question him again, but police did not identify him.
A Los Angeles Fire Department source told the Los Angeles Times that Jackson was in full cardiac arrest Thursday when rescue units arrived on the scene after receiving a 911 call. The unidentified doctor was in the house performing CPR on him, said the Times’ source, who asked not to be named because he was not authorized to speak to the media.
In the meantime, lawyer Brian Oxman, who has worked with the Jackson family, told CBS’s “The Early Show” that he had been concerned about the prescription drugs that Jackson took due to injuries suffered while performing. “I do not want to point fingers at anyone because I want to hear what the toxicology report says and the coroner says but the plain fact of the matter is that Michael Jackson had prescription drugs at his disposal at all times,” Oxman said.
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286 comments Add your comment
HavingMySay
June 26th, 2009
3:16 pm
I would have been disappointed if you hadn’t selected a song by MJ. Thanks Jay…..
To all the MJ Haters – let it go. The man is gone.
DB, Gwinnettian
June 26th, 2009
3:16 pm
Good choice.
Although I was always more of a “Stop, the love you save may be your own” kinda guy.
Normal
June 26th, 2009
3:18 pm
I’m not gettin’ the site…Is he playing “Beat it”?
Wyld Byll Hyltnyr
June 26th, 2009
3:20 pm
I met Michael Jackson at a party that Liz and Larry hosted in Palm Springs. He was a small odd man, sort of a paler Phil Spector.
One is left to wonder what effect growing up without a father figure will have on Blanket and the others.
DB, Gwinnettian
June 26th, 2009
3:20 pm
I’m not gettin’ the site…Is he playing “Beat it”?
nope, it’s “Never can say goodbye.” Thematically appropriate, for sure.
I Report (-: You Whine )-:
June 26th, 2009
3:24 pm
Oh no, not a Michael Jackson thread.
eewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
josef nix
June 26th, 2009
3:27 pm
I Report (-: You Whine )-:
“Oh no, not a Michael Jackson thread.”
Just for you! Now wasn’t that thoughtful. Bless your heart.
DB, Gwinnettian
June 26th, 2009
3:28 pm
Came across this author on a radio show, he passed along something producer Quincy Jones had to say about MJ’s work ethic. snicker at the term if you will, I don’t much care. Point’s valid.
At one point I asked Q[uincy] what separated the great stars from the near greats he’d worked with. “Ass power” was his reply. To illustrate his point, Q compared Michael Jackson to another well-known vocalist he’d produced. The other singer, an artist with an immense voice and an insatiable appetite for cocaine, would come to the studio, maybe lay down a scratch vocal, and then wander off for hours. Jackson, in contrast, would come to the studio, record a strong lead vocal, work the stacked harmonies that distinguished his work, and practice where to place those ad-libs that were his trademark.
“His ass power,” Q said, “would keep him in the studio until he felt he’d accomplished something that day. That ability to focus, to stay in that chair in the studio, listening to playback and then going back in to record some more — that’s what separates the good from the great.”
Paul
June 26th, 2009
3:32 pm
DB, Gwinnettian
Heard the same example used for Tiger Woods. He’d made a particularly difficult shot. Someone made a comment to the effect that “I wish I should shoot like that.” Commentator said Mr. Woods had surveyed the course, seen that type of shot as a distinct possibility, then practiced for hours and hours, over and over again, on that one shot.
There’s a reason some of the greats are great -
Dave R.
June 26th, 2009
3:34 pm
Wouldn’t that very same “ass power” apply to Rush Limbaugh?
And I prefer ABC, even though “Never Can Say Goodbye” is certainly more touching and appropriate.
I Report (-: You Whine )-:
June 26th, 2009
3:37 pm
mm
June 26th, 2009
2:02 pm
For you undereducated neocons – Cap and trade has been in effect for years. Obama is just tightening the cap. If you don’t use all of your emission credits, you can sell them. If you run out, you can buy them from someone else. Bottom line, the amount of polution being allowed is being lowered 17 percent by 2020 and 83 percent by 2050. Stop listening to the morons.
I like it when the mmoron calls other people “uneducated.”
Reps. Lacy Clay (D-Mo.) and Eddie Bernice Johnson (D-Texas), who are members of the Congressional Black Caucus (CBC), say they are not yet sold on the bill.
A vote-counter for the CBC, Rep. G.K. Butterfield (D-N.C.) explains that his colleagues are “reluctant to give a firm commitment until they can be satisfied that it will not disproportionately affect minority families.”
“It’s hard … in these economic times for us to say, ‘Bite the bullet’ and have higher utility bills in the winter and the summer,” Clay told The Hill.
I’m listening to your side, mmoron.
Maybe you should too.
GayGrayGeek
June 26th, 2009
3:38 pm
Jay, great choice. The artist was never in question, obviously. But wow – what an appropriate song.
DB – Thanks to you, too. As you said, the point is valid about MJ’s approach to his art, even if many of us (myself included) were completely squicked about his life or lack thereof.
Normal
June 26th, 2009
3:39 pm
Beat it, Beat it! Where’s my other glove? Beat it…
DB, Gwinnettian
June 26th, 2009
3:41 pm
Wouldn’t that very same “ass power” apply to Rush Limbaugh?
Sure. I’ve never questioned the man’s work ethic, nor his business ingenuity. For what it’s worth.
Normal
June 26th, 2009
3:42 pm
Brutus: your 3:37…Was this a MJ song?
Vienna Sausage Boys Choir...
June 26th, 2009
3:43 pm
You and I must make a pact
We must bring salvation back
Where there is love
I’ll be there
I’ll reach out my hand to you
I’ll have faith in all you do
Just call my name
And I’ll be there
I’ll be there to comfort you
Build my world of dreams around you
I’m so glad I found you yeah
I’ll be there with a love so strong
I’ll be your strength
You know I’ll keep holding on
Let me fill your heart with joy and laughter
Togetherness, well it’s all I’m after
Just call my name and
I’ll be there
I’ll be there to protect you
With an unselfish love that respects you
Just call my name
And I’ll be there
Chorus:
I’ll be there to comfort you
Build my world of dreams around you
You know I’m so glad that I found you
I’ll be there with a love so strong
I’ll be your strength
You know I’ll keep holding on
See, if you should ever find someone new
I know she better be good to you
‘Cause if she doesn’t then
I’ll be there
Don’t you know baby yeah yeah
I’ll be there
I’ll be there
Just call my name and
I’ll be there
I’ll be there, baby
You know I’ll be there
Just call my name and
I’ll be there
Just look over your shoulder
Just call my name and
I’ll be there
getalife
June 26th, 2009
3:43 pm
For our sci fi fans:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNl2Pm9-7Vk
GayGrayGeek
June 26th, 2009
3:44 pm
Normal @ 3:42 – I believe Veruca Salt is showing us “Don’t Stop ‘Til You Get Enough”.
TnGelding
June 26th, 2009
3:48 pm
HavingMySay
June 26th, 2009
3:16 pm
And to the media, let him go. As someone posted below, he’s been dead for years.
Peadawg
June 26th, 2009
3:49 pm
Geeze, how much more of Chester the Child Molester are we going to have to see?
GayGrayGeek
June 26th, 2009
3:52 pm
Peadawg – It’ll be over soon, and we can return to Winky U. Betcha.
GreenJeans
June 26th, 2009
3:54 pm
Picture it: Me and a friend studying for finals, Spring ‘83, 1:00 in the morning.
I’ve got an F in Political Science (having discovered sex and weed earlier in the semester), heading into a 1/3-multiple choice, 2/3 essay exam in seven hours.
We take a break, turn on the radio, and “Beat It” is blaring.
I let fly with a “Whooo!” and a jump, throwing my right hand straight up into the air, and straight into the little metal ceiling fan in the kitchen.
Blood. Trip to campus Quack Shack. Stitches. No writing for me anytime soon, and a freaking PolySci repeat.
The next day my up-until-now unsympathetic professor asks if I might at least handle the multiple choice portion? Well, I’ll try.
Score an A; pass the class with a D.
Thanks, Michael. For all the demons you wrestled with during your life, to me you will always be the man who got me through Political Science.
Normal
June 26th, 2009
3:55 pm
G3 : “Fraid so…Just sayin’
Brad Steel
June 26th, 2009
3:57 pm
“The Vienna Sausage Boys Choir” that’s funny stuff.
Mrs. Godzilla
June 26th, 2009
4:00 pm
I remember the ‘Zillettes and I waiting to watch the premier of this video when they were 9 and 10….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZI9OYMRwN1Q
Mrs. Godzilla
June 26th, 2009
4:16 pm
remember the time
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDxsM5jLNxM
Requiem In Principle
June 26th, 2009
4:19 pm
I suspect he’s no longer under pressure. Then again, who’s to know for sure, eh!
herbK
June 26th, 2009
4:33 pm
Vienna Sausage Boys Choir, excellent, a very meaty selection. Bet that Evan, your lead singer doesn’t look a day over 12.
Don’t stop ’till you get enough.
Pogo
June 26th, 2009
4:34 pm
Same media that hounded him and that reveled in his bad and bizarre behaviour for the sake of “a story” is now deifying him. As the song said, “Is the head dead yet? We need dirty laundry”. This story, when it comes, is not going to be a pretty one. Michael Jackson gave all of you in the press all the dirty laundry you ever wanted. Only thing was, you forgot that there was a human being, with human feelings and who had family members which cared about who were also involved. Much the same thing as Jay has been doing all week to the Governor of South Carolina (only his reason is political, not sensational). Jay, all of you in the press and media should be proud of yourselves. Basically you are a bunch of buzzards who are even sadder than the people whose trajedy you capitalize on.
Scooter
June 26th, 2009
4:50 pm
I can only remember of one song MJ sang. It was Beat It.I think it was the one when his hair caught on fire in the Pepsi commercial.I am an old Stones fan myself!
Paul
June 26th, 2009
4:57 pm
OMG, just when you think someone couldn’t have any more screwed up sense of perspective…
Was looking over a friend’s Facebook page and he’d made a notation that this guy is one of the most screwed up on the planet. From OGOchoCINCO (Chad Johnson): “Okay, first Mrs. Fawcett and now Mr. Jackson, please, tell me that this is a mistaken rumor, if not this is just as sad as 9/11″
Gotta say, that tops anything posted here -
Paul
June 26th, 2009
5:01 pm
Oh my, my previous post…
The guy’s a receiver in the NFL – Cincinnati Bengals….
O-kayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
Jane Fonda
June 26th, 2009
5:05 pm
I heard Ben did it.
jasper
June 26th, 2009
5:15 pm
1st album I ever got was at my 9th birthday party, “Maybe Tomorrow”. I listened to it for days and stared at the cover wishing I was MJ. How that wish has faded, but the music is still just as majical as it ever was. He’ll always be that amazingly talented boy to me.
TnGelding
June 26th, 2009
5:15 pm
Pogo
June 26th, 2009
4:34 pm
You’re off your stick, comparing apples to orange juice. With celebrity comes scrutiny and perverted, in many instances, interest. Michael is another entertainer that died too young due to a bizarre lifestyle. The governor is another hypocritical GOP member that broke his most sacred vow. Jay isn’t trying to harm him and was very forgiving in his posting.
In short, they brought it on themselves, and should have known better.
Bosch
June 26th, 2009
5:20 pm
I had my MJ say on the previous thread – off topic of course.
GayGrayGeek
June 26th, 2009
5:23 pm
TnGelding: And, in Sanford’s case, don’t forget the rank hypocrisy of his behavior as compared to his “Family Values” platform for re-election in 2006. Having been one of Marky Mark’s “whippin’ boys” at the time – my hubby and I lived in Columbia while Sanford pushed SC’s hateful Marriage Discrimination Amendment – I have to admit that the Schadenfreude feels Really Really Good right now.
I Report (-: You Whine )-:
June 26th, 2009
5:26 pm
Speaking of freaks, have you libs pardoned Pee Wee Herman yet?
getalife
June 26th, 2009
5:26 pm
Interestingly, Jackson wrote a song called “Morphine” in 1997. One of the lyrics — “Demerol. Demerol. Oh God he’s taking Demerol.”
Paul
June 26th, 2009
5:29 pm
Bosch
How’s your dad doing?
Bosch
June 26th, 2009
5:30 pm
I can remember cruising around town with my older cousin jamming to “Off the Wall” on 8 track.
Bosch
June 26th, 2009
5:32 pm
Paul,
Good. Thanks. He had back surgery this morning, but was up walking up and down the hall 30 minutes after he woke up standing up straight instead of all hunched over. His doctor looked like he was 25, but hey, them young ones must know a thing or two about new back surgery procedures because he did wonders on my dad. It was pretty amazing to see him up walking to his full 6′4 potential. I forgot how tall the man was.
Bosch
June 26th, 2009
5:33 pm
Paul,
Make that I forgot how tall the man IS, not was. Geez.
pat
June 26th, 2009
5:38 pm
Who cares? A child molester is dead, big deal.
Paul
June 26th, 2009
5:38 pm
Bosch
Glad to hear it.
“Was” is fine. He wasn’t then, before surgery. You were referring to that time. “Is” is now.
Did I ever tell you I liked Clinton’s explanation of “is”?
@@
June 26th, 2009
5:40 pm
GGG:
Paul – Careful there. When @@ comes back, you’re gonna get the lecture about Staying On Jay’s Topic.
You are so full of crap.
You, specifically, have come in to chastise me for changing YOUR chosen topic which wasn’t JAY’S chosen topic. I really don’t care what you guys wanna talk about as long as it’s NOT one particular contributor. When I come in with something that interests me, don’t accuse me of changing the subject. It’s a one-hit “wonder”…..not interested? Don’t read it.
~~~~~~~~~OO~~~~~~~~
It’s always been my practice not to speak ill of the deceased. MJ’s life was a sad experience from beginning to end. The saddest part being that he passed his suffering (abused childhood) onto other unsuspecting children. That aside…
he was an excellent dancer and no one can tell me he didn’t know what he was doing.
When he performed, he was in complete control of his audience. A regular chameleon, he was.
I Report (-: You Whine )-:
June 26th, 2009
5:45 pm
The biggest problem for Democratic leaders at this point comes from veteran Democrats like Rahall, New Jersey Rep. Rush Holt and Colorado Rep. John Salazar, who don’t face a clear election threat in 2010 but oppose the legislation. Leaders want safe veterans on board so that more vulnerable members can be freed to vote no on the bill.
They know that people do not want this farce and will vote against people who are in favor of it, so the environmental terrorist democrats scheme ways to shove this down our throats.
suicide bombers, plain and simple.
Paul
June 26th, 2009
5:48 pm
Hi @@
I do like your Stratfor posts. Please, keep’em coming.
BTW – do you have any idea it is to get a liberal to answer the simple question “should those who held Palin and her supporters accountable or ridiculed them for her abstinence talk when her daughter got pregnant, also hold Rep Conyers accountable and ridicule him for his political morality talk, since his politician wife was engaged in criminal activity and violating a public trust and has been convicted?”
Such a simple question…
dang, I’ve gone off topic, again!
Paul
June 26th, 2009
5:49 pm
@@
should be “do you have any idea how difficult it is to get a liberal to…”
Bosch
June 26th, 2009
5:49 pm
Since it’s appropriate here, I’ll repost what I wrote earlier:
Seriously, no joking aside, the news coverage I’ve seen just reaffirmed what I’ve always thought about him: that he was a sad and lonely individual who probably never had a true friend, was most likely horribly abused by his parents, and lived in an altered state of reality. He suffered from severe arrested development and was a five year old living in a 50 year old body, who identified with the Elephant Man more than himself or as a human being for that matter. It’s really sad.
It’s easy to call Michael Jackson a pedophile, because in all likelihood, he was. At least by the letter of the law. But I seriously do not think that he knew that sleeping with 13 year olds was wrong because I do not feel he was sexually mature enough or emotionally mature enough to know the difference. His whole life, he was surrounded by people who wanted money from him and those who would extort him and his emotional disabilities because they knew they could. And let’s face it, any parent who would put their child in that situation is just as retarded. I feel he did not ever really realize what is right or wrong – yes, some would argue that’s just natural to figure out the difference, but I don’t think he lived in a natural world — ever.
I used to work with adult mental retarded people and they were very similar. Their bodies became mature and they naturally developed physically sexually, but their minds were still that of a five year old. They didn’t know how to deal with their physical bodies. I think it is very obvious looking at Jackson over the years that is exactly what happened to him.
Bosch
June 26th, 2009
5:51 pm
Paul,
Yeah, I was always astounded at that definition as well. They didn’t call him “Slick Willie” for nothing!
RW-(the original)
June 26th, 2009
5:53 pm
Good move Mr. President
Now where’s that apology to President Bush?
Paul
June 26th, 2009
5:54 pm
Bosch
Last night my wife made quite a comment about MJ. I noted he’d never been convicted of anything (great… now I’m gonna get challenged and ridiculed for that remark… by the same people who refer to incarcerated jihadists as ’suspects’!) and she said, well, yeah… but…
I passed along your remarks to her. She got pretty thoughtful. Saw it from a different perspective.
’twas a sad situation, now it’s over.
ByteMe
June 26th, 2009
5:55 pm
And this is what took MTV videos to the next level.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtyJbIOZjS8
Paul
June 26th, 2009
5:56 pm
RW-(the original)
When that was first mentioned here it was met with pretty much disbelief by diehard Obama supporters.
John Stewart’s gonna have a field day.
Never thought I’d be so pleased to have a politician reverse course so often!
Y’know, he’s gonna win over the cons yet!
mike
June 26th, 2009
5:57 pm
“The Obama administration, fearing a battle with Congress that could stall plans to close Guantanamo, has drafted an executive order that would reassert presidential authority to incarcerate terrorism suspects indefinitely, according to three senior government officials with knowledge of White House deliberations.
Such an order would embrace claims by former president George W. Bush that certain people can be detained without trial for long periods under the laws of war. ”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/26/AR2009062603361.html?hpid=topnews
Bosch
June 26th, 2009
5:59 pm
It is sad, I’m not defending his actions at all, but then again, I don’t think anyone can compare him to a typical child molester because I feel he was a child himself. You could tell by any interview he did in the past 15 years. He lived his whole life in a completely unnatural environment – none that anyone can call real. As far as I can tell, he never had a healthy or normal relationship with another human being. I doubt very seriously that he ever had actual sex with another person. And if he had actual sex with one of those kids, I do not think he saw it as wrong, rather that was what he thought love was because he had nothing else to base it on.
It’s sad and pathetic actually, and you’re right – now he’s dead, and there will probably be just as many people trying to extort money from his estate as there were when he was alive. He was a case study in so many things in our society that are just so wrong.
RW-(the original)
June 26th, 2009
6:02 pm
Paul,
It’ll never happen if he won’t man up and say he had been wrong all during the campaign…that and the whole domestic agenda craziness that he doesn’t know he’s wrong about yet.
Bosch
June 26th, 2009
6:02 pm
ByteMe,
From what I’ve gathered reading your posts, I think you and I are about the same age (I’m 41) and I remember when that video premiered on MTV – it was like a movie premiere, but one we could watch at home. It was a pivotal moment in music history.
DebbieDoRight
June 26th, 2009
6:03 pm
Ms.G: remember the ‘Zillettes and I waiting to watch the premier of this video when they were 9 and 10…
Went to your link, (Black or White), and what is so stunning to me about it is that even then he had issues with who he was. He was born a little brown boy in Indiana, but transformed himself — by the time he died he looked like and old white lady. Really sad. I really can’t understand racial self awareness issues at all. My family has always embraced every color that we came in, (light or dark skinned, curly, straight, thick, or wavy hair); and made us proud of who we are and where we came from. I find it really sad that he chose to turn himself white instead of rejoicing in his blackness.
My favorite Jackson song: Who’s Loving You. Classic Blues, song by a kid with milk on his mouth!!! Brilliant!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ane6VJGlIMs&feature=related
Requiem In Principle
June 26th, 2009
6:03 pm
Four hundred million in debt and he goes and dies. Damn! He’s the perfect Republican.
@@
June 26th, 2009
6:03 pm
Paul:
Their “morality” is measured by a different schtick.
I don’t mind if you go off-topic. Food is nothing more than a necessity for maintaining life. I can’t get that excited about something so basic. The discussions on gay lifestyles? No biggie either — a different perspective can be useful.
If I come in with something else “interrupting you ladies’ coffee klatch”, my posts are accompanied by humor (I don’t do the emoticons, remember?) I could give you an (ISH) or josef and (ISH) but the others haven’t earned an (ISH) nor do they know what to do with an (ISH).
I’ll always bring Stratfor’s insight. I’ve been keeping my eye on Turkey and I ain’t talkin’ fowl unless it’s how they can foul up Pootin.
I wonder if Hillbilly Deluxe will weigh in on an MJ video? Likely not.
Bosch
June 26th, 2009
6:06 pm
When I was a teenager, it was so uncool to admit you liked Michael Jackson with my crowd, but I’d find myself grooving a little when one of his songs came on, and then you’d snap out of it and hope no one saw you.
I think I’m the only one in my high school that didn’t own Thriller.
Paul
June 26th, 2009
6:12 pm
RW-(the original)
From what I’ve seen, it’s not even “changed my mind because…” It’s just, bam! change.
@@
[[Their “morality” is measured by a different schtick.]]
For me, it’s one more example their loud protests and objections are based upon seeking political advantage, not upon principle.
Given I grew up reading cookbooks… trying lots and lots of different styles of food…. explored other cultures and times and places through cooking… okay, yeah, I have a different perspective.
Don’t think I’ve ever been irritated at your coming in with something else. Even if I were, so what? You shouldn’t have to tiptoe about what you want to express just because I might get bugged by it (Say it Bosch!!! Say “Aha!!!! That’s PROOF!!! I KNEW you weren’t a Liberal!!!”).
But please, do keep up with,if not Stratfor, then at least the topics. I love that stuff.
ByteMe
June 26th, 2009
6:14 pm
Bosch: I’m 46. When it was released, I thought The Blues Brothers and Kentucky Fried Movie were Landis’ better effort
and it was a bit too derivative of American Werewolf in London (also Landis), but it sure did make everyone stop and consider what could be done with a music video with the right director and a little money.
It’s too bad that the music industry has since forgotten what they could do with talented musicians and a little money.
josef nix
June 26th, 2009
6:16 pm
Hey @@–good to hear you think of me when I’m not around!
@@
June 26th, 2009
6:18 pm
Bosch:
This one is tailor-made for you.
Reading the comments, I have no doubt he touched the lives of many children but the likelihood that he harmed a select few is unacceptable.
RW-(the original)
June 26th, 2009
6:19 pm
Paul,
Unless he gets asked about a bam-change in a presser. At that point he tells you that you must be crazy to not realize that was his position all along.
DebbieDoRight
June 26th, 2009
6:19 pm
Bosch: I used to work with adult mental retarded people and they were very similar. Their bodies became mature and they naturally developed physically sexually, but their minds were still that of a five year old. They didn’t know how to deal with their physical bodies. I think it is very obvious looking at Jackson over the years that is exactly what happened to him.
I can agree with you to a certain extent but I think MJ knew EXACTLY how to work what he’d been given. I remember during the Bashir interview when he stated that it was so hard for him growing up on the road and always being surrounded by adults and never having anyone his own age to interact with. I remember my friend commenting on that by saying, “Oh, how sad, poor Michael”; but then I pointed out to her that when MJ was a kid, he traveled with his 4 other brothers, one of which, Marlon, is only 14 months older than he was. He NEVER traveled with just himself and adults!!! But he’s said that lie so many times, that just like the republicans saying that Saddam was behind 9/11; people started to believe it and didn’t disassociate the obvious facts and truths from his contrived alterations.
Also I don’t think Joe Jackson, (father), was a particularly brutal man. He was a man who was raising 6 boys who he was trying to keep off the streets and out of prison and out of the steel mills that he worked in. He wanted something better for them than what he had and he was determined that they wouldn’t end up like so many other young boys from their neighborhood. Sure he might’ve smacked him a couple of times; but, growing up in a house where kids got smacked around, didn’t hurt any of the other kids Joe raised. I think Michael played that “I’m so sensitive” card to the iiitth degree. He was very aware of everything he did and/or said in public; and how the public would react to it. The only time he was wrong about public reaction and opinion was during the Bashir interview, (when he mentioned sleeping with young boys).
MJ was, after all, the consummate performer; he knew how to play a crowd.
DebbieDoRight
June 26th, 2009
6:25 pm
Paul: “should those who held Palin and her supporters accountable or ridiculed them for her abstinence talk when her daughter got pregnant, also hold Rep Conyers accountable and ridicule him for his political morality talk, since his politician wife was engaged in criminal activity and violating a public trust and has been convicted?
The answer to that is NO. Why? Because Palin was responsible for her underaged daughter’s actions, (legally), and Conyer’s wife as an adult, is responsible for her OWN actions.
Paul
June 26th, 2009
6:28 pm
RW-(the original)
too true! More fodder for Stewart.
I looked around a bit after the last news conference (not the infomercial) to see what major outlets did any kind of his analysis of his “I’ve always taken this position on Iran – nothing took me so long” answer.
Care to guess which one looked at the record and analyzed? Hint: it isn’t one of the ones with the ‘most favorable stories’ rating by Pew.
TnGelding
June 26th, 2009
6:30 pm
GayGrayGeek
June 26th, 2009
5:23 pm
Thanks for the new word! Not that I’ll ever be able to use it.
Mrs. Godzilla
June 26th, 2009
6:31 pm
Debbie Do Right
HOLY YOU KNOW WHAT!!
I had never seen that. Incredible. How old was he?
Bosch
I think you are probably right about MJ and think along the same lines myself. I’m a survivor too.
The old brick gym at my convent school had a genuine 50’s juke box.
I failed at every sport while MJ sang “I’ll be there”. (did better during the four weeks of folk dancing). Later, when the Zillettes
showed interest in boys, pierced ears and mall bangs, they got me listening again. Over 40 years and some tunes still make my feet tap,
my hips move or my shoulders hitch up. Sad in so very many ways.
Let’s all leave his kids alone.
Off topic, I hear Mr. G’s footsteps. Friday night steak night shall
proceed. Where there is love…..Mr. G usually is right in the middle of it!
josef nix
June 26th, 2009
6:32 pm
I’m going to go out on a limb here, but I personally find it rather vulgar (in the primary, denotative meaning of the word, not its connotative secondary meaning) the attack on the Palin daughter. We’re lucky in that our kids are better than we raised them, but that’s their doings, not ours. I know I nowhere near have lived up to the standards preached (and practiced) in my home environment, but that’s my doings and not theirs.
The rabid Obamistas are the worst of the lot in their gleeful Schadenfreude, completely oblivious to the demand of their hero that attacks on the family be foregone. They must have not gotten the memo.
josef nix
June 26th, 2009
6:34 pm
ff topic, I hear Mr. G’s footsteps. Friday night steak night shall
proceed. Where there is love…..Mr. G usually is right in the middle of it!
Bosch
June 26th, 2009
6:34 pm
@@ and Debbie,
I’m not defending his actions at all. Sorry if you got that impression from me. My point was that, although I’m not a psychologist, nor play one on TV, it was pretty evident that he suffered from extreme arrested development and may not have known what was a normal relationship, or even what normal sex was. He created a false reality and lived in a completely unnatural world, but he was also surrounded by people who encouraged and enabled that world. I think that trial was probably so shocking to him that he never fully recovered physically from that. I used to work with a guy whose father took him to Neverland once, and knowing this guys parents the way I do, they probably would have LOVED to have MJ hit on their son-it’s like winning the lottery for some. Sick, yes, but there are sick people in the world. This guy was pretty messed up because of his parents, but is now a great dad and a normal, healthy adult.
Like I said, it’s easy to try and frame Jackson as this and that, when you compare him to normal people, in normal situations, but I feel that Jackson NEVER lived in a normal environment. And also, like I said, he’s a case study for so many things that is just so wrong.
Kayaker 71
June 26th, 2009
6:35 pm
Debbie,
What a crock!! When it meets your needs, you will put down most anyone who disagrees with you. Conyers is a US Congressman who has a crook for a wife. She faces time in the joint for what she did. Don’t you see the difference???
josef nix
June 26th, 2009
6:37 pm
OOPS–story of my half-a**ed day!
Mrs. Godzilla
Off topic, I hear Mr. G’s footsteps. Friday night steak night shall
proceed. Where there is love…..Mr. G usually is right in the middle of it!
Was going to say, you lucky devil, you…the Unmentionable had to work today so I’ll be lucky to get a sack of Krystals!
Paul
June 26th, 2009
6:38 pm
Hi DDR!
I’m interested. How, exactly, are parents legally responsible for their underage daughters becoming pregnant? What are the legal consequences and how are parents held to account?
What about not legal? What about the idea kids are gonna go off on their own tangents, especially when they’re 16 or 17? You’re saying all parents should be judged, if not as a matter of law, than as a matter of principle, for what their teenagers do, even if they’ve been taught correct principles?
Then there’s the idea that an adult picks a spouse, a companion, and while he or she has definitely not raised that person, they should have insight to that person’s basic moral character (unless the person’s a complete psycho whacko). Are you saying a politician who makes moral condemnations of others (Conyers) should not be even questioned about their own ability to judge character when someone they’ve aligned themselves with commits criminal acts?
Kayaker 71
June 26th, 2009
6:40 pm
Enough already!!! So the little pedophile is dead. A victim of his own devices. I am just about as tired of hearing about this freak show as I am about Chris beating up his girlfriend. Does it ever end??
I Report (-: You Whine )-:
June 26th, 2009
6:43 pm
Conyers, the wife of powerful Democratic congressman U.S. Rep. John Conyers pleads guilty to conspiracy She faces up to 5 years in prison
Defrauding the government, cheating on your wife.
Cheating on your wife, defrauding the government.
Hmmmmmmm.
Bosch
June 26th, 2009
6:43 pm
And Debbie,
I remember that interview, they were playing clips of it last night on CNN, and also in that interview he said something along the lines of “well, wouldn’t you sleep with a child who needed love?” And the interviewer, obviously shocked said, “No, I wouldn’t.” Well, yeah, duh, what normal person would?
That’s my point that he wasn’t normal. What person in their right mind would say something like that in an interview? I don’t think he knew what normal was. Obviously in many cases – I think he totally loathed himself physically, hence all the plastic surgeries, and I thought it was odd that he tried to buy the bones of the Elephant Man, he probably related to that guy in alot of ways — he probably didn’t think of himself as human either. Was that ego? Yeah, probably, but it was also probably just because he lived in such an abnormal reality.
Seek and ye shall Find
June 26th, 2009
6:43 pm
There are heroes everywhere. They come in all sizes and shapes. There is no one size fits all.
Paul
June 26th, 2009
6:44 pm
josef nix
Nicely said. When people comment me on ‘what a good job blah blah blah’ based upon my kids’ character and accomplishments, I usually shrug and say sometimes I wonder what gene pool they came from. Nothing’s ever said about the one that didn’t turn out so well…. even if they have made tremendous progress in the last few years.
I think environment has, at best, a fifty percent influence. Genes, I think, have a greater pull than many care to admit. Of course, that has extreme implications for the ‘free will’ crowd and how we view people with addictions and in less than fortunate circumstances, but that is definitely NOT a topic for this time on a Friday!
RW-(the original)
June 26th, 2009
6:44 pm
Paul,
Before your convo with DDR gets too far off the track the legal age of consent in Alaska is 16 unless the older partner is in some sort of control position. (and for the sickos around here that doesn’t mean bondage)
Bosch
June 26th, 2009
6:46 pm
Kayaker,
This IS a thread about Michael Jackson like it or not, so if you don’t want to see discussions about him, it’s pretty obvious that you don’t have to, or join another tangent conversation. K?
Bosch
June 26th, 2009
6:47 pm
Hehehehe.
RW said “control position” and “bondage.” What’d ya’ expect from a werewolf.
RW-(the original)
June 26th, 2009
6:47 pm
Geez…the Dems are so worried about their cap and trade vote they pulled Patrick Kennedy out of rehab to vote. Good thing he’s taking his rehab seriously. Maybe he can be on the next freak show with Dr. Drew.
Paul
June 26th, 2009
6:47 pm
Bosch
When I saw that I thought he was pretty clueless of the sense the questioner was using “sleeping with.” He easily coulda meant, quite literally, sleeping.
Farrah Fawcett – not the icon, but so many more pleasant memories.
Paul
June 26th, 2009
6:50 pm
RW
That’s good to know. But I hope it doesn’t get off track (why do people get stuff off track when they don’t want to answer, as happened in the prior thread?) with the daughter, as the original question was about those who piled on Palin for what a family member did that conflicted with her political, moral pronouncements, and will they do the same with Conyers?
I’m getting a clue… it’s vague… nebulous… coming into focus…
Nope, I don’t think they will!
Bosch
June 26th, 2009
6:50 pm
Paul,
Farrah. Charlie’s Angels….the hair. Yeah. Okay, Friday night poll question:
What guy DIDN’T have the Farrah Fawcett poster? Even my 69 year old dad had one on the back of his bathroom back in the day.
josef nix
June 26th, 2009
6:51 pm
PAUL–interesting you should bring up free will. My grandfather, the Maimonidean, always added the caveat to the philosopher’s emphasis on free will–”yes, but free will itself is dependent on what is at one’s disposal to exercise that free will.”
My own father suffered from “le malaise juif,” gambling. I know better than to go near a casino, my brother and sister could both go, set their limits on spending, and leave with win/loss and no ill effects. Perhaps I have the “gene” since we all three come from the same environment,
Bosch
June 26th, 2009
6:51 pm
Who is this Conyers you speak of?
Paul
June 26th, 2009
6:51 pm
Bosch
[[RW said “control position” and “bondage.” What’d ya’ expect from a werewolf.]]
If that’s in book 4 I’m not sure I wanna read it -
Seek and ye shall Find
June 26th, 2009
6:53 pm
I recall seeing a response on the Conyers question from DebbieDoRight.
Bosch
June 26th, 2009
6:53 pm
Paul,
No worries, it’s not, but there IS a werewolf, several of ‘em. And they’re bad asses.
josef nix
June 26th, 2009
6:53 pm
PAUL–no, they don’t. Sauce for the goose being sauce for the gander is an entirely alien concept.
@@
June 26th, 2009
6:54 pm
Bosch:
So far your focus has been on Michael Jackson, his father and the irresponsible parents of the children who were subjected to Michael.
Nothing about “the children” other than Michael’s, that is.
You want to nurture, condemn and make excuses for adults only???
I find you strange.
RW-(the original)
June 26th, 2009
6:54 pm
Bosch,
I didn’t, but I looked all over for a poster with Jaclyn Smith posed like that.
josef nix
June 26th, 2009
6:58 pm
Okay, ladies and us who share your interest in the male gender…who di YOU have posters of? Mine, David Cassidy…bad, bad teenage crush on him…
Paul
June 26th, 2009
6:58 pm
Bosch
I didn’t.
Mom was kinda strict.
For all the good it did.
My brother went to Europe for a few months, right out of high school. Went with a friend. When they got back, mom said to my brother “Tim sent his mom letters of everything you guys did and asked her to save it for a diary. YOU never sent us letters.” My brother said, ‘yeah, well..” Few weeks later mom says to my brother “how come Tim hasn’t been over?” Brother says “he’s grounded.” Mom: “Why?” Brother (with a big, BIG grin) “His mom found his REAL diary.”
She loosened up after that. A bit late, but better late than never.
Oh, Rep Conyers is of the Judiciary Committee, Dem from Michigan, and he’s been a consistent torch bearer for investigations and hearings and impeachment for the entire Bush administration (well, most of them) for their illegal, immoral, outrageous conduct betraying the trust of the American people and anyone who supports them is a ..
josef
It’s good to have that insight. Doesn’t always help early on…
But it does make one more understanding of another’s plight, eh?
Paul
June 26th, 2009
7:01 pm
Seek and ye shall find
DebbieDoRight is obviously exceptional -
Bosch
June 26th, 2009
7:03 pm
@@,
Not sure what you mean.
“You want to nurture, condemn and make excuses for adults only???”
What? I can’t make excuses for the children involved, because they were innocent victims, not sure what you mean by “nurture” and I think my point was pretty clear in my condemnation in that I did mention that I think in all likelihood Jackson WAS a pedophile.
I wasn’t trying to make excuses for his behavior, just trying to put it into context. There’s a difference, at least to me.
And btw, I am a bit strange, but in a good way – at least you don’t find me shallow today.
Step up I guess.
RW,
Yeah, Jaclyn was the smart one. Sigh.
josef nix
June 26th, 2009
7:04 pm
PAUL–too many out there buy into the “beaten as a child syndrome” in their own cases. Well, if you know you’ve got issues, what do you propose to do about it? Understanding that someone else may have issues they have not dealt with because they do not recognize them is a whole ‘nuther ball of wax.
Seek and ye shall Find
June 26th, 2009
7:05 pm
Paul,
Perhaps you should address you exceptional statement to the exceptional one. I was just steering you in her direction.
Tamye Bobyie Huntyr
June 26th, 2009
7:07 pm
What Ole Wyld Byll said is true. I was with him at that party, what he failed to mention is we was bar tending together. Had us some rented monkey suits and everything. Ole Byll was trying his damnedest to get in Liz’s drawers. He was always a cougar lover from way back at Gwinnett Tech where we learned an honest trade. But when Byll saw Michael he got a little star struck and tried to show off his own version of the moon walk. Need I say we did not get any 4 thousand dollar tip that night. Liz ended up throwing us both out and marrying some other young Buyk.
Bosch
June 26th, 2009
7:07 pm
Paul,
My oldest went to Europe a couple summers ago. I didn’t ask questions when he got home. But he did tell me he felt bad about puking on the grounds at Pompeii.
And what’s the controversy surrounding Conyers? I’ve been either asleep or at the hospital today – no news.
josef nix
June 26th, 2009
7:08 pm
Oh, while we’re out casting stones, let’s not forget Cold Cash Jefferson!
Bosch
June 26th, 2009
7:09 pm
joseph,
There is nothing more infuriating to me than the “I was beaten as a child” excuse for beating their own children.
josef nix
June 26th, 2009
7:13 pm
Bosch –that’s not what I was referring to. I fear my age is showing here! When pop psychology was taking off back in the 1960s, this was a catch phrase for those who claimed it was not their fault, but their parents’ or society’s fault.
Bosch
June 26th, 2009
7:20 pm
joseph nix,
No, I don’t think that’s your age showing, there’s still alot of people who make those excuses.
Paul
June 26th, 2009
7:20 pm
Seek
I hadn’t seen her moniker up, but I trusted if she returned she’d see the remark. Didn’t mean to slight her -
Bosch
I just asked a question downstairs. Conyer’s wife, Monica, President of the Detroit City Council, was just convicted of taking bribes. Facing prison time. Conyers has been, as I noted, a loud voice condemning the criminal, illegal acts of the Bush administration and has pushed for hearings and impeachment.
Just finished up (I hope) with Kamchak downstairs, who took the position that situation is not at all comparable to Palin’s, as Monica is an adult, John didn’t form her values and he’s in no way responsible for her. Rejected the idea John’s judgment should be questioned, as he’s obviously real good at seeing flaws in the Bush administration but is completely clueless regarding the life partner he picked, her values and commitment to the law, and her general moral character.
Says Palin’s different as parents are responsible for how their kids turn out. I sure hope Kamchak doesn’t have kids, or if he/she does (or brothers or sisters do) that they all turn out really, really well so they don’t have to cope with their obvious failure if the kids turn out to be rats or bums.
josef
yeah, and it’s getting late on a Fri for that! But I see it as another situation of many intermingling factors, not an either/or.
RW-(the original)
June 26th, 2009
7:23 pm
Bosch,
Wasn’t Kate Jackson the smart one? My brain quit working due to reverse blood flow whenever Jaclyn was on the screen.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I think this thread is having a problem the Friday night music threads don’t usually have for a few reasons that have been pointed out, but also for the reason Jay B alluded to about the similarity of MJ and EP both having their talent die long before they did.
Maybe if we want to get back to music we could link some tunes from people we lost in their prime.
I’ll get it started if y’all are up for it.
Paul,
I think you can just drop a URL here and Wordpress will make it a hot link for you.
Paul
June 26th, 2009
7:24 pm
Bosch 7:09
Are you aware most child molesters were themselves molested? I think it must really damage the mind. Texas has a successful (pretty much) treatment program for convicts – but it’s horribly expensive and really, really intense in training and certifications for the therapists. This backwards, conservative state is much more progressive than a lot of progressive states in that regards.
DebbieDoRight
June 26th, 2009
7:25 pm
Hey Paul!!! : Hi DDR! I’m interested. How, exactly, are parents legally responsible for their underage daughters becoming pregnant?
That’s not what I said. I said her parents were LEGALLY responsible for her. Period. And now they’re responsible for that baby too, (financially), until she comes of age. If your kid commits a crime YOU THE PARENT are legally responsible and can be held in a court of law. Witness all the parents who are put in jail each year because their teenaged kids refused to go to school.
You’re saying all parents should be judged, if not as a matter of law, than as a matter of principle, for what their teenagers do, even if they’ve been taught correct principles?
Nope, not what I said. You’re reading more into it that what it is. LEGALLY parents are responsible for their kids. PERIOD. You can teach them right or wrong, do all you can for them; but if they do wrong you can legally held responsible. (Colombine kids are a good example, people wanted to hang the parents for the kids’ actions)
Then there’s the idea that an adult picks a spouse, a companion, and while he or she has definitely not raised that person, they should have insight to that person’s basic moral character (unless the person’s a complete psycho whacko). Are you saying a politician who makes moral condemnations of others (Conyers) should not be even questioned about their own ability to judge character when someone they’ve aligned themselves with commits criminal acts?
Again, you’re reading more into it than what I said. ADULTS make their own decisions — you are not responsible for the things that your spouse does UNLESS you are complicit in the act.
Kayaker: See above for comment. ^^
Bosch
June 26th, 2009
7:26 pm
Paul,
Wow. I don’t even know how to respond to that. I think parents are responsible for shaping how their kids will turn out and are responsible for them to a certain point, but as I’ve seen the past couple of years with my oldest, they are pretty much on their own after high school. They reach a point where you become the guidance counselor, and cheerleader and keep your fingers crossed. And I certainly learned a long time ago to never say, “Well my kid would NEVER do such a thing.”
Paul
June 26th, 2009
7:27 pm
RW – thanks!
Okay, Bosch, I didn’t cite this earlier, thought about it, but thought I really shouldn’t, but now, I’m gonna use RW’s URL drop-link technique and send you to something to pull you out of your Michael Jackson funk…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqz1ojIQTBk
@@
June 26th, 2009
7:29 pm
Can’t contribute to the music. My guy died and has resurrected himself more than once.
Posters? Tom Selleck.
I’d still have one if I wasn’t married to a guy who looks like Dave Ramsey (Tsssssssss).
RW-(the original)
June 26th, 2009
7:30 pm
Paul,
The funny thing is if anybody reading through the thread is paying attention to you and me they’re gonna be scrolling back furiously trying to figure out where you even asked me that.
Paul
June 26th, 2009
7:32 pm
DDR
Hey there!
I’m fine with the legally responsible part. But I wasn’t getting at legality with the idea of condemning one morality political preacher when a family member goes off track on the subject of the preaching while letting someone from another party off the hook when their family member doesn’t adhere to the morality political preaching.
’bout your third paragraph: my style: if I ask a question, I’m not assuming anything about your position. I’ll usually preface that with “I understand you are saying” or some such. Questions just seek clarification.
I trust from the rest of the discussion not involving you you got the gist of my wonderings –
Bosch
My experience: well before they get out of high school they can go their own way. Sometimes just to show you they can and let consequences be damned.
Bosch
June 26th, 2009
7:34 pm
RW,
I think technically there was another Angel who was the smart one, but no one ever paid attention to her when Jaclyn and Farrah were on the screen.
I’d like to toss in Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin and Kurt Cobain. All in the 27 year old club. I was pretty much devastated when Kurt Cobain died, but as I told my friends, that’s pretty much what happens when you are a heroin addict (as was the case in the other two as well).
Paul,
Why yes, I am aware of that statistic. I think it completely warps a child and they have a hard time developing a normal sex life and normal sexual relationships, but it is no excuse because it’s not 100%, otherwise we should just shoot the children who’ve been molested (and no I’m not saying that is what we should do).
Paul
June 26th, 2009
7:35 pm
RW-(the original)
They gotta keep up – guess it came from having kids and having split attention for so long!
And you are correct, Kate was the brainy one. But Jaclyn, wow, what style…
josef nix
June 26th, 2009
7:36 pm
PAUL–I’ve been following the Texas program to a limited degree and have been impressed by some of what I’ve read.
I work with children in a public school environment and while professional confidentiality prohibits me from going into details here, we have to deal there with the realities of what many have the comfort of dealing with as an abstract.
Paul
June 26th, 2009
7:38 pm
Bosch
good point. There’s always the ability to try to change.
Anywho, it’s getting late. Time to go fix some Friday libation and hit the swimming pool masquerading as a hot tub.
And drown my ‘no Battlestar Galactica’ sorrows….
Pleasant weekend, all -
Bosch
June 26th, 2009
7:38 pm
Paul,
“My experience: well before they get out of high school they can go their own way. Sometimes just to show you they can and let consequences be damned.
Yeah, and most parents don’t have the kahunas to let them experience the consequences.
My experiences with those who preach morality are the ones you must be the most suspicious of.
josef nix
June 26th, 2009
7:39 pm
@@–thanks! Have to admit Selleck is right up there! Course by the time he came on the scene I already had the real thang hanging on my wall!
DebbieDoRight
June 26th, 2009
7:39 pm
Bosch: I’m not defending his actions at all. Sorry if you got that impression from me. My point was that, although I’m not a psychologist, nor play one on TV, it was pretty evident that he suffered from extreme arrested
Yeah, I know I wasn’t dogging ya! I was just giving you my viewpoint on his true “motives”. The guy grew up in a family with a mother AND a father that were very hands on. I’m sure he saw how male/female interactions worked. If he didn’t see it with his parents, he had older siblings and could’ve seen it through their relationships. I think he just played on public sympathy and thought that his fame could excuse anything if he “sold” it correctly. But, again, that’s just my opinion — I wasn’t there and the family ain’t talking!!
PS: One of the reasons I think the family never said anything is because MJ probably supported them. Their “careers” , except for Janet, have been non existent for a few decades and none have been seen working or doing anything outside of being a “Jackson”.
I Report (-: You Whine )-:
June 26th, 2009
7:41 pm
219 socialist stooges in the House of Representatives and another one right here in Atlanta, near and dear to our hearts.
Now bring it to it’s stupid, pitiful death in the Senate.
Bosch
June 26th, 2009
7:41 pm
Oh thanks Paul – just had to bring up Battlestar. Sniff. Sniff.
Have a nice weekend! And make sure to cheer on USA Sunday (I still can’t believe I’ll miss that game!)
Paul
June 26th, 2009
7:43 pm
josef
I was impressed, too. Heck, I’d even support a tax increase to keep it going!
Bosch
I was from the ‘let’em experience the consequences’ school. Years later one son thanked me. Lots. Said it made him aware of the path he was on and if I hadn’t let him experience consequences he’d of kept going and probably ended up in prison, so he got his act together. You’d never guess it if you were to meet him today. He’s quite remarkable.
HIS kids aren’t gonna get away with anything, though!
Out -
Bosch
June 26th, 2009
7:45 pm
Debbie,
“One of the reasons I think the family never said anything is because MJ probably supported them.”
EXACTLY!! In all likelihood his family probably mooched off him as well. When Jermaine was all upset last night, he was probably thinking, “There goes my meal ticket.” I think the family was just as guilty of enabling his crazy behavior.
As I’ve been saying, just because he may have been abused is no excuse for him abusing others, but I doubt very seriously he ever had anyone to stand up to or report his behavior because they knew their sugar daddy would be gone.
RW-(the original)
June 26th, 2009
7:46 pm
More “good” news for a Friday night. If this monster the house just passed gets through the Senate your energy bills just skyrocketed (Obama’s words so don’t be a whackin’ on the messenger) and if you want a manufacturing job you better hit Rosetta Stone and grab Chinese and Hindi.
josef nix
June 26th, 2009
7:46 pm
BOSCH–with all due respect, please allow me to take issue with “it completely warps…” I have known many people who went through the horror but who have been able to nevertheless lead happy, productive lives and raise stable, well-adjusted children.
Bosch
June 26th, 2009
7:51 pm
joseph nix,
Didn’t mean it like that. I happened to be married to someone who can testify to the contrary. I meant it warps them at the time and it takes many a while to understand what is normal and what isn’t. Kind of like religion – I was warped religiously as a kid, and wouldn’t step foot in a church because of the bad experiences I had growing up, but I finally found out not all churches are like the one I grew up in, and religion doesn’t mean intolerance – i didn’t mean it exclusively. I never speak in absolutes – only Siths speak in absolutes.
DebbieDoRight
June 26th, 2009
7:54 pm
Bosch: And Debbie, I remember that interview, they were playing clips of it last night on CNN, and also in that interview he said something along the lines of “well, wouldn’t you sleep with a child who needed love?” And the interviewer, obviously shocked said, “No, I wouldn’t.” Well, yeah, duh, what normal person would?
OK I understand your point, but, as you know, I used to be a social worker, so I’m very familiar with the head games sociopaths play. They try to turn everything around and make everything about “them” while pretending to be disassociated with their actions or “unaware” of the things that they’ve done. Now, I’m not a dr. — I’ve just seen behavior like his before. Not saying that he was clinically diagnosed or anything like that, it’s just that I’m a weeee bit cynical about some of his statements and actions.
But, again, I’m just giving my perspective — I could be totally wrong and not “reading” him correctly.
That’s my point that he wasn’t normal
Word!!!
@@
June 26th, 2009
7:55 pm
Alright josef, maybe you can explain this one to me…
Dennis Franz.
What is it about Dennis Franz?
The men I find appealing covers a v-e-r-y wide spectrum.
josef nix
June 26th, 2009
7:59 pm
BOSCH– “only Siths speak in absolutes…”
I wasn’t too clear there myself! I think the point I was trying to make you made much better. We can dwell on the failures, but we can learn much more from the successes…
Bosch
June 26th, 2009
8:01 pm
Debbie,
I know what you mean about sociopaths, but my point was that you can’t compare Jackson to a even a normal sociopath (an oxymoron, I know) because he never lived in the world that even sociopaths live in. It was a totally separate altered reality. it was like uber-parallel strange far out universe. He lived in Sociopath Disneyland. I doubt very seriously that he managed anything in his life: money, food, clothes – nothing. I’ll be willing to bet he never actually paid for anything – I’m talking the actual handing over of the bills to the cashier, fixed a morsel of food he ate, or even picked out his own clothes. I’ll bet he never even arranged for other humans to be around him – that was done for him. yeah, he might have said, “I’d like some ‘friends’ over” meaning little kids for him to “play’ with – but no one ever said, “Um, Mr. Jackson, I don’t think that’s a good idea.”
He was not normal – Word UP!!
DebbieDoRight
June 26th, 2009
8:04 pm
Okay, ladies and us who share your interest in the male gender…who di YOU have posters of?
I had a poster of Arnold Schwarznegger (sp) in his Mr. Universe speedo, looking SOOOOO fine. I also had a poster of LL Cool J and a poster of Big Daddy Kane. When MaDonna came out with her book enttitled $eXx, (my brother thought he’d hidden it from me in a good place, but he didn’t know that I knew where all his hiding places were), there were au naturel pictures of Big Daddy Kane with MaDonna; I used to look at that picture and think, “THAT’s why they call him Big Daddy!!”
josef nix
June 26th, 2009
8:15 pm
@@ Dennis Franz? Not one of mine, BUT when the Unmentionable and I were talking about his sex symbol status, he made the comment that Franz was a real man, meaning that he was the kind who is one you can see yourself settling down with and who’s not afraid to be, well, what women want a man to be…
Being of the persuasion I am women feel a bit freer in discussing men with me than they would other men and I always say, straight men would be shocked to find out what women want their men to be…
josef nix
June 26th, 2009
8:17 pm
Debbie: Madonna’s book…came out when we were raising our kids, and Little Princess had her copy. I used to get tickled watching the boys shaking their heads over the pages she had book marked…!
DebbieDoRight
June 26th, 2009
8:18 pm
Paul: ’m fine with the legally responsible part. But I wasn’t getting at legality with the idea of condemning one morality political preacher when a family member goes off track on the subject of the preaching while letting someone from another party off the hook when their family member doesn’t adhere to the morality political preaching.
OK If we’re just talking about Conyers personally then he, to the best of my knowledge, has only gone after political figures NOT their families. So he can’t be painted with the same brush of “going after Palin’s daughter” ’cause I haven’t seen or read a comment of his pertaining to that. So, if we’re being “fair and balanced”
we can’t tar him with the same brush of the others who went after Palin’s daughter to get to Palin.
Yes his wife IS in politics; but she’s a grown woman and responsible for her own actions. Go after her sure, but Conyers shouldn’t be held accountable for her actions.
DebbieDoRight
June 26th, 2009
8:23 pm
Bosch: . He lived in Sociopath Disneyland. I doubt very seriously that he managed anything in his life: money, food, clothes – nothing. I’ll be willing to bet he never actually paid for anything -
No disrespect B, but I think you’ve drank the kool-aid that MJ was sending to the press. The man was not a savant — he was considered a business GENIUS!! Especially when he nabbed the Beatles portfolio for a cook 20 something mil right out from under Paul McCarthy’s nose. His friends said he was a very smart man who knew the power of publicity and how to work it. He wasn’ t the rain man — I feel, he knew exactly what he was doing and was hiding behind his “childlike” facade to try and get over. Any man who puts an ALARM in the hallway by his bedroom so he’ll know when someone is coming his way, is not living in an altered reality, he’s living in this world and KNEW what he was doing was wrong and tried to run an end around so that he wouldn’t get caught.
Kamchak
June 26th, 2009
8:24 pm
DDR
Forget the issue about Conyers. Paul’s position is that “life partner” is a more responsible position than parent.
Seek and ye shall Find
June 26th, 2009
8:24 pm
We were training folks in China, and other countries with cheap labor, etc., to do our jobs back in the nineties. Anyone worrying about jobs going overseas now is a decade or two behind the times. We’re looking at the next generation of jobs that can be done here instead of over there. Some folks need to wake up and smell the coffee instead of trying to blame Obama for things that either happened in the past or, just as bad, for things that have not even happened.
I Report (-: You Whine )-:
June 26th, 2009
8:29 pm
Why do I have to go to a Con site to see jam up s$#% like this-
http://www.flickr.com/photos/iowahawk_blog/3660165643/
You go girl!
DebbieDoRight
June 26th, 2009
8:32 pm
Bosch: When Jermaine was all upset last night, he was probably thinking, “There goes my meal ticket.”
Too funny!!! Did you get a good look at Jermaine? He looked kinda weird his dang self!!! It looked like he “painted” on his hair with a magic marker!!!
I think the family was just as guilty of enabling his crazy behavior.
Yep. They probably looked the other way and pretended they didn’t see or notice anything.
Bosch
June 26th, 2009
8:32 pm
Debbie,
No, I don’t like Kool Aid. I think MJ’s problems were entirely unique, which is why I’ve said he could be a case study for so many things. Not unique in the sense that he was or wasn’t a sociopath, but unique of him being the person he was in the circumstances surrounding him. I think we agree on the main points I just don’t think you can throw out his extraordinary and unique existence and compare him to others because there was no one like him who lived in those kind of circumstances, and I hope we will never see anything like his freak show existence again.
Pleasant evening all.
Bosch
June 26th, 2009
8:34 pm
Debbie@8:32,
Yeah, see we agree on the main points! Again, good night!
josef nix
June 26th, 2009
8:38 pm
Mrs. G–in case you check back in…it wasn’t a sack of Krystals–”thrown together” kielbasa, fresh asparagus, fresh corn and a vine ripened tomato from outside…can’t complain!
@@
June 26th, 2009
8:39 pm
Bosch:
Watch this video and then try to convince me that MJ had no concept of human sexuality.
I’ve always said this about Michael…the only time he ever felt alive was when he was dancing. He most definitely knew how to appeal to the audience through his sexuality.
At some point you have to take a stand, not in defense of a damaged adult but in defense of the children they’re seeking to damage.
josef:
I remember talking to this gay friend of mine (guy) we were debating some movie star. He said he was good looking, I said he was ugly. This debate went on for awhile when I finally realized I was arguing about some guys looks with a guy. It dawned on me that we were looking at him from a totally different perspective.
DebbieDoRight
June 26th, 2009
8:40 pm
Josef: You’re bad…….!!!!
Kamchak: DDR Forget the issue about Conyers. Paul’s position is that “life partner” is a more responsible position than parent.
I hope not!! Heck if that’s the case every politician’s wife that’s been cheated on by the politician is REALLY the one to blame. He just arranged the affair, lied, and snuck around but it was really all her fault!
Seek: I am one of the blind ones who didn’t see it coming. I remember distinctly when the factory workers were saying “Buy American” and I couldn’t for the life of me figure out why!! I saluted the North American Trade Agreement thinking it was a good thing and couldn’t understand why the Unions were so mad about it. NOW I understand!!!
From a famous line from Star Trek The Next Generation: “Her eyes are wide open!!!”
Kamchak
June 26th, 2009
8:46 pm
josef
Looking through the Wine Spectator picks and this caught my eye.
“Chateau Ste. Michelle Pinot Gris Columbia Valley 2008 (88 pts. $13) Light and silky with pretty peach, almond blossom and grapefruit flavors that linger easily on the open-textured finish. Drink now. 100,000 cases made.”
Harvey Steiman
M. Jackson
June 26th, 2009
8:52 pm
The Federal Mafia nor bottom-feeding lawyers exist here.
I am finally resting in peace.
josef nix
June 26th, 2009
8:55 pm
Debbie and @@– interesting, isn’t it what men think women want! One of the things gay men get a hoot out of is the straight men who go about claiming offense when a gay man, well you know…and we just shake our heads and mutter, honey what makes you think we’d want YOU! Got a brother in law who looks so much like Roger Dalty it’s scarey. Whenever a gay man takes the second look, he smiles, says thank you and goes on about his bidness. Back when I was younger and still had the looks, I felt much the same way about straight women who took the second look, @@ and I never really did understand it…I understood why they went for the Unmentionable, he’s a dark-eyed handsome man with an easy-going masculinity you’d want to wake up next to for a long time, but me? Well, I was the trophy that, unfortunately, you had to admit the next morning had a brain, too! And that, to me at least, was a “male thing!”
getalife
June 26th, 2009
9:02 pm
Man, Mike was doing more drugs than Anna Nichole. $10,000 a month pharmacy bill and a live in doctor to inject demerol everyday.
Jacko?
More like whacked out.
Geez.
josef nix
June 26th, 2009
9:02 pm
KAMCHAK–thanks! You might want to check out some of the Canadian wines from the Okanogan…reasonable and quite tasty…some really good Rieslings, just the right balance between the fruity and the dry…have you ever had any of the Hungarian Balaton whites? Worth trying…there are some good Slovenian ones, too, and they’re still not overpriced…
Kamchak
June 26th, 2009
9:07 pm
josef
I recall your recomendation on the Balaton but I’m at a loss as to where to buy them. I usually shop in Suwanee, but it’s a trek from the casa.
RW-(the original)
June 26th, 2009
9:09 pm
josef nix and Kamchak,
Chateau Ste. Michelle bottles a pretty darned good inexpensive Riesling too.
Mrs. Godzilla
June 26th, 2009
9:11 pm
Posters?
This one. With a black light.
http://www.thepeacecompany.com/store/prod_cards_warnothealthy.php
not really a poster but ….
http://www.suddenlysenior.com/wildoats.html
‘lovely night y’all.
under the cover of the nearly out of control wysteria, the spa is at
78 degrees….
Joe’s going on SpaPatrol tonight!
DebbieDoRight
June 26th, 2009
9:14 pm
Josef: I don’t know……I think you went for the pretty boys!!! I, on the other hand, really LOVE beefcake!! U like brains, when I was younger, (ha, ha) my motto was if he spelled cat with a “c” he was too smart for me!!! I liked them big and DUMB!! I would ask them a test question to see if they could hang with me. I would usually ask a question like, “What type of books do you like to read?” This was really a trick question — the correct answer would be either comic books or I don’t read. THAT would be the guy I’d go after!!! Nothing is better than to have a dumb guy with a buffed body. THAT’s heaven!!!!
Gotta go for now!! My sister-in-law wants me to help her and her wife put together this stupid baby bed!!! After about 15 minutes, I plan on leaving to go to the bathroom and never coming back to help! I can sham just as good as any guy!
josef nix
June 26th, 2009
9:14 pm
KAMCHAK–Tower usually has some Balatons and the wine shop on Pharr occasionally gets some in…they’re not always the easiest to come by and when we do run into them we tend to “stock up” a bit…the Unmentionable is the “wino” and stays in contact with “his people!” What do you think of the Chileans? Was never so glad to see a country return to democracy! Finally could indulge my taste and not violate my political principles!
I Report (-: You Whine )-:
June 26th, 2009
9:16 pm
Man, Mike was doing more drugs than Anna Nichole. $10,000 a month pharmacy bill and a live in doctor to inject demerol everyday.
getathejoke- Yeah, it’s a shame, if he could have held out a couple more months, the gov would have picked up the tab.
That’s what government run health care is all about and is why the democrats are clamoring over it so voraciously.
Medicare gets scammed 80 billion dollars a year, so times that by 10, you got one hell of a party going on.
getathejoke- Doctor, I’m so depressed.
“Doctor”- Here, hold out your arm.
getathejoke- Ouch, er, wow, mmmpphbbbt, ssspppptttt, mmmpoppphh, uh.
“Doctor”- Easy, son. Where’s your Universal Health Care Card at?
getathejoke- hahahahaha, mmmmpppphhhhyyytttt.
“Doctor”- Nevermind, I’ll check back later. Still “depressed?”
Check it out, every October they cut you off, so that you can drag yourself to the polls. But December, party time!
eewwww
DebbieDoRight
June 26th, 2009
9:17 pm
MsG: Had to comment on your post before i left:
Poor Burt. I know exactly how he feels. One minute you’re a male sex object, with beautiful women in hot pursuit. The next, you’re a lecherous old fart with bad breath, skimpy hair, and badly in need of Viagra
Too funny!!! Good night All!!!
I Report (-: You Whine )-:
June 26th, 2009
9:21 pm
German Rieslings are the only way to go but they are not inexpensive.
Joh Jos Prum will make your eyes water.
Kamchak
June 26th, 2009
9:21 pm
josef
Haven’t tried any Chilean wine, but now I’m intrigued.
getalife
June 26th, 2009
9:21 pm
That is funny Andy.
Methinks Mike wanted to go out like Elvis.
josef nix
June 26th, 2009
9:22 pm
Debbie–heh, heh..nope never went for the pretty boys much…opposites attract! When Little Princess brought her fellow home to meet the folks, I had to admit he was fine, but, well, not the most brilliant conversationalist. I was trying to get a handle on it since she’s a really bright one. Finally after several attempts on my part to get more than a monosyllabic grunt, she leaned over and said, “well, obviously I ain’t with him for his mind, now, am I?” Well, he’s a good man, a good daddy and she’s happy and he thinks he’s got the brass ring…just goes to show you never can tell…
josef nix
June 26th, 2009
9:27 pm
RW-(the original)
When I first moved to the Northwest I made what was probably not the kindest comment on the level of, well, sophistication there on the frontier. The person I made it to didn’t say anything and invited me to dinner. I was impressed by the Riesling she served and was ooh-ahing when she let me read the bottle! I stood corrected and have been a fan of Chateau St Michel ever since…when we first moved to Georgia it was next to impossible to find and we were sent “care packages” from Washington!
josef nix
June 26th, 2009
9:28 pm
KAMCHAK–do check out the Chileans and best of all they are still reasonably priced.
josef nix
June 26th, 2009
9:33 pm
I Report (-: You Whine )-:
Have to give the Krauts their just due here! After all, they did invent the Riesling!
The South Africans do a really good one,,,,
I Report (-: You Whine )-:
June 26th, 2009
9:34 pm
Nah, I think his qwack just rammed in a bit too much.
It is sort of strange, alot of people are saying he is “dead” or that there are “reports of his death” as though they don’t believe it, bookman included, like he is faking this to get out of the 400 million.
I’m thinking that he qualified for a government bailout, didn’t he?
I Report (-: You Whine )-:
June 26th, 2009
9:40 pm
nix- I’ve got a wine rack bulging with Auslese, Kabinets and Spatlese, all from the Germans, each is a surprise in it’s own way.
They make a jam up Red, Dornhoffer I believe is the name, a sweet table wine that really is sweet.
RW-(the original)
June 26th, 2009
9:40 pm
josef nix,
Lucky for you it’s everywhere now although I remember in my youth there was an allure to Coors since you couldn’t get it on this side of the country. Sadly once we could we realized it was swill. The Chateau holds up though. There’s a Riesling by Weber that’s also a really good inexpensive one.
getalife
June 26th, 2009
9:41 pm
1978 Louis Jadot Pouilly-Fuisse is some good stuff.
Bud Wiser
June 26th, 2009
9:41 pm
How could they tell? Certainly not by looking at him.
Rumors are his last words were “take me to Childrens Hospital LA”
josef nix
June 26th, 2009
9:42 pm
Hey, now, Elvis is alive and well and living in Tuscaloosa! Kid you not, we were coming back from a visit home a few years back and Tuscaloosa was the first “civilization” we came to. The Unmentionable needed to pick up some things and had stopped at the K-Mart on the outskirts. I was dozing and when I opened my eyes there was a fellow walking through the parking lot from his Cadillac and I swear he looked just like the fat Elvis!
josef nix
June 26th, 2009
9:49 pm
I Report (-: You Whine )-:
Being a red wine drinker myself, the Germans have some real surprises. My daughter-in-law is German and is always bringing me in a new one to try…
RW-(the original)
Ah, yes Coors! I remember the days myself…and you’re right, it’s swill…! Course being political, I couldn’t buy it, but I would drink it when my less political friends brought it in…speaking of beers, the Northwest does some decent ones…but. really, I don’t know from beer, gotta remember my home of the heart is the Big Easy–Jax!
RW-(the original)
June 26th, 2009
9:49 pm
1978 Louis Jadot Pouilly-Fuisse
getalife,
A casino hostess at the Mirage sent a case up to my room for my birthday once a few years back when I had to spend lots of time out there. Excellent stuff, but we had a more English slang sounding name for it.
godless heathen
June 26th, 2009
9:52 pm
just a ancedote about the nature vs. nurture debate. In my hometown was a hard working dairy farmer and his school teacher wife. They had six kids, 1, 2&3 (twins), 4, 5, 6. #1 and # 4 are dopers living in the old dairy barn. 2 has just been nominated to be an ambassador to a major world power. #3 is a very wealthy successful business man. #5 is a religious nut. #6 leads a “normal” life.
Ya never know.
RW-(the original)
June 26th, 2009
9:52 pm
Blaspheme josef!
When in the Big Easy one must support the brewers at Dixie Brewing Company.
/although it’s swill too…
getalife
June 26th, 2009
9:54 pm
She treated you right RW.
It was 30 bucks a bottle but don’t drink wine anymore.
Liquor’s quicker.
josef nix
June 26th, 2009
9:58 pm
godless heathen–yep and you never know which one will do what and which of the “losers” may well turn out to be the most successful…back in college had a friend whose oldest daughter was a true wild child, dropped out of school at 16 and hitchiked to Central America with a ne’er do well beau from down there, lived on the beach and now has her own program on NPR…!
josef nix
June 26th, 2009
9:59 pm
RW-(the original)
Heh, heh! Must admit I’ve swilled enough Dixie to float a paddle wheeler!
RW-(the original)
June 26th, 2009
10:02 pm
It was 30 bucks a bottle
getalife,
Can you imagine the price it was on the books as in the bizarro world of catering pricing at resort hotels? They even had every machine and dealer greet me with a Happy Birthday greeting that year so my guess is I would have a LOT more money if that part of my life never happened, but I wouldn’t trade those memories for anything.
josef nix
June 26th, 2009
10:02 pm
Fellow winos–can’t let the thread pass without recommending the “family vineyards” Chateau Cadillac…
josef nix
June 26th, 2009
10:07 pm
RW-(the original)
Memories…my Uncle Ralph always counseled to make sure you had something to remember…tried to teach that to my own kids…made sure they got to go back home as often as possible so they’d know what it meant to live the good life and laissez les bonstemps rouler….
RW-(the original)
June 26th, 2009
10:07 pm
josef,
Abita is from a little north of New Orleans, but they have some fine beers to represent the area.
josef nix
June 26th, 2009
10:08 pm
RW-(the original)
Abita is from a little north of New Orleans, but they have some fine beers to represent the area.
Don’t know it…fill me in!
getalife
June 26th, 2009
10:08 pm
RW,
Memories?
Hell, I can’t remember half my life.
I know I had a great time though.
When old friends say remember when we did this or that?
I say no but wish I could.
josef nix
June 26th, 2009
10:12 pm
getalife– same here! If what I remember is THIS good, what WAS the part I don’t remember!
Bosch
June 26th, 2009
10:14 pm
@@,
Show me once this evening where I said Jackson did not understand human sexuality. And I lost count how many times I wrote that I was not defending him, and I also wrote that the children involved were innocent victims. I guess as usual you like to paint me as some kind of moral defect who sides with other moral defects, and per usual that just isn’t the case. But you have it in your head that you are so morally superior to me and everyone else who challenges you on an issue, or in my case just simply tries and has a simple discussion. I’m really sorry that you think I am some weird psycho, which I’ve never really understood why — except that you simply disagree with me politically. Cie la vie. Whatever.
I also find it an interesting pique in your personality that despite many chances to address what I wrote earlier before I signed off, you choose to address it after I’ve signed off. Is that your way of getting in the last word hoping your sad attempts to paint me as a moral defected weirdo will resonate with the other posters and make yourself seem morally superior? I find you to be very strange as well. Just saying.
RW-(the original)
June 26th, 2009
10:14 pm
josef,
Funny how the discussion moves. We like to tell the kids to let the good times roll, but we hope they’ll wait until they can handle it.
Abita They have a good mix and most are good, but as always you have to be an appreciator of beer.
I’d just as soon have an Anchor Steam and a shot of Schnapps out on Skyline.
TUESDAY VANDY GIRL
June 26th, 2009
10:14 pm
When Michael Jackson sees a young boy he ..beats it, beats it , beats it, beats it…
A pedo is a pedo, even after death
Good Riddence
josef nix
June 26th, 2009
10:15 pm
Hey Bosch–glad you’re back…join the drunkards with our memories!
Bosch
June 26th, 2009
10:18 pm
joseph nix,
If your talking fine wines, it’s above my head. My idea of a good wine is Yellow Tail on the porch. I don’t savor wine – it savors me!
But New Orleans, I know well.
josef nix
June 26th, 2009
10:19 pm
Talking about memories…when my kids were asking me about the disco era, my prime time, I told them I didn’t know what it was like, they said, “but you were there” and I said “which is why I don’t know…” Began to understand my mama when I asked her about being a flapper,,,!
Hillbilly Deluxe
June 26th, 2009
10:22 pm
Not a drinking man myself but an old man I thought a lot of used to say, “I only drink corn liquor. I drink strictly for effect and I see no sense in wasting time.”
josef nix
June 26th, 2009
10:26 pm
BOSCH–Hey, now, I’ll join you for some Yellow Tail on the porch any time. As the Unmentionable says, fine wine is one thing, but a good buzz is what you’re really after…glad you know the Big Easy…best place in the whole country in my humble opinion…dinner at Tujagues and a roll down Bourbon to cap it off…
RW–it’s true…it’s why we took ours home the way we did…we wanted them to see what it was they would be turned loose to enjoy when they showed they could handle it…took ‘em to Carnival every year, but from about 12 to about 15, they did it in Mobile!
Bosch
June 26th, 2009
10:26 pm
Hillbilly Deluxe,
If it’s the effect your going for, the cheaper the better.
RW-(the original)
June 26th, 2009
10:28 pm
I’ve got a barstool to this day that I took out of a disco in the 70’s because a bouncer told me I could take it just so they could lock the doors for the night. I only (think) I know that because that’s what I was told the next day when I wondered where the stool came from, so I fully understand, josef.
Bosch
June 26th, 2009
10:29 pm
joseph,
The Big Easy? I agree, the most exciting place on the planet. No other town like it. I remember my first walk down Bourbon Street – I thought I’d dropped off the planet – who knows, maybe I did.
josef nix
June 26th, 2009
10:29 pm
Hillbilly Deluxe–Mama used to say, “don’t ruin good co-cola with bourbon and don’t ruin good bourbon with co-cola,”
Corn liquor? Best I ever had was in Poteau, Oklahoma meetin’ the Pesky Savage in-laws who gove me the compliment that I could hold my own pretty well for a Jew Boy!
Bosch
June 26th, 2009
10:31 pm
RW,
I have a gold painted reindeer in the attic that I acquired under similar circumstances. Still don’t know where it came from, but apparently I had a good time getting it, so I’ve always kept it.
Bosch
June 26th, 2009
10:33 pm
Wait a minute. Maybe @@ is morally superior to me.
josef nix
June 26th, 2009
10:34 pm
BOSCH–dad’s family is from there. Mom’s is Upland Southerner and, well, tight a**ed. When I was ten I went down visiting and my Aunt took me down to Bourbon to see the naked lady swing out…Mom was horrified when she found out,,,my aunt told her, “Well, Jeanne-Marie, I fail to understand what you’re getting so upset about, you don’t want him to grow up to be a pervert, do you?”
RW-(the original)
June 26th, 2009
10:35 pm
Bosch,
A gold painted reindeer is worth a dozen barstools. The only place I know of you could find one of those is in a hole in the wall bar on a side street in Anchorage. It’s a great bar right behind a gift store called Once Upon A Blue Moose. Is that where you got it?
josef nix
June 26th, 2009
10:36 pm
Disco days? Was visiting with some old friends and were looking at some photos, can’t for the life of me recall the time and place, but from the looks of things, I was definitely enjoying the moment!
Hillbilly Deluxe
June 26th, 2009
10:39 pm
Josef:
Somebody offered my Grandpa egg nog at Christmas once, he said “no thands I’ll take my corn liquor straight”.
Bosch
June 26th, 2009
10:41 pm
RW,
Could be. I got around in my younger days. But I hope that I didn’t block out a whole trip to Anchorage. Mind you it’s not real gold paint, it’s like gold spray paint, but the paint has held up well over the years.
joseph nix,
I’ve reminded my oldest who is starting his second year in college that when you post photos to Facebook, they never really go away, and everyone can see them.
Bosch
June 26th, 2009
10:42 pm
The only time I’ve had straight corn whiskey (moonshine) was at a Willie Nelson concert. Damn good concert, I think.
RW-(the original)
June 26th, 2009
10:44 pm
and the thread gets back on topic with a very nasty turn of events.
Jay B’s blog meets the Star Bar.
josef nix
June 26th, 2009
10:46 pm
BOSCH–oooh don’t mention photos…discretion being the greater part of valor I won’t call the name but it’s one you’d recognize of a politician (yes, GOP), but there’s a set floating around out there taken way, way back long before I settled down and became respectable and he a champion of “traditional family values” that we’d both like to get our hands on for different reasons!
josef nix
June 26th, 2009
10:48 pm
RW–still dig out my Donna Summer and you’re right, how apropos to the topic…
Bosch
June 26th, 2009
10:51 pm
joseph nix,
A politician spouting family values in an indecent photograph. Say it ain’t so! That Willie Nelson concert – I went with my dad, years ago. This drunk woman threw her underwear on stage, and my dad leaned over and said, “Well I’ll be damned, that’s my ex-sister-in law!”
RW-(the original)
June 26th, 2009
10:55 pm
josef,
My wife says Turbo Dog is her favorite from Abita, but it’s dark so I’m thinking fall or winter. Apparently they also do a strawberry in the summer, which sounds disgusting to me, but she says is great and she’s never steered me wrong yet when I get up the nerve to take her advice.
Bosch
June 26th, 2009
10:56 pm
Okay, checking out again. My dad got some sweet painkillers after his surgery and things are starting to look fuzzy! Just kidding. Big weekend. Gotta get some sleep (or maybe some wang dang doodling!). Later all
Bosch
June 26th, 2009
10:57 pm
RW,
Saw your post. Strawberry beer is so wrong, but then again, your wife and I have the same kind of blood that stops mechanical instruments, right? So, maybe I’d like it.
Pleasant evening.
josef nix
June 26th, 2009
11:00 pm
RW–will try it out…several years back I had a muscadine in Louisiana and can’t recall anything about it now other than it really was quite tasty and not nearly as sweet as I would have expected…kind that would really go well with pork…
RW-(the original)
June 26th, 2009
11:03 pm
Bosch,
You and she stop watches from watching the time, compasses from compassing, and radio waves from waving. I’m guessing you would also like the strawberry beer if only for that reason, but for what it’s worth she thought it would suck until she tasted it.
RW-(the original)
June 26th, 2009
11:08 pm
josef,
Chateau Elan has a muscadine wine that’s interesting and not bad, but pork should be handy when drinking it.
Check out time!
Later y’all
josef nix
June 26th, 2009
11:11 pm
RW–Chateau Elan? Will check it out. Been impressed with their offerings so far…
Gotta run myself…busy day tomorrow and have to be decent since it’s my professional face I have to put on…asi es la vida!
TnGelding
June 26th, 2009
11:13 pm
You folks make me sorry I’m a teetotaler.
Seriously, I hope your heavy drinking days are over. You exhibit too much zest for life to end it prematurely.
‘W’ solved homelessness?
http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/dekalb/stories/2009/06/26/squatters_foreclosures.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab
Michael H. Smith
June 26th, 2009
11:20 pm
One more parallel from so says the Washington Post
Obama Drafting Order on Detention
Officials Say It Would Reassert Power To Hold Terror Suspects Indefinitely
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/26/AR2009062603361.html
Oh no, Barack O’samer is at it again, walking in those Bush footsteps!
Tom
June 27th, 2009
2:01 am
All Michael, all day. What a great and deep revelation of the depth and intellectual mind!
Normal
June 27th, 2009
7:19 am
Hello, Hello, anybody home?
josef nix
June 27th, 2009
7:29 am
NORMAL–I’m here and Paul’s downstairs…see what you missed last p.m.?
Seek and ye shall Find
June 27th, 2009
7:32 am
Gov. Mark Sanford’s admission to an extramarital affair with a woman in Argentina has sparked a debate within the backchannels of the GOP over how strongly the party should emphasize morality and religion going forward.
For decades, the GOP has used issues like respect for the sanctity of marriage and the notion of family values as a key component of its political platform and a point of divergence between Republicans and Democrats. A series of sex scandals involving high-ranking officials, however, has drastically altered that equation. And now some strategists are questioning whether the party should rethink the way it emphasizes these matters.
In short, they’ve lied for years and now the lies are catching up to them. Bunch of hypocrites.
Normal
June 27th, 2009
7:33 am
Yes I Do, but I had to go to work. I’m there now actually…slaving over a hot iron…soldering iron, that is…
Wide stance Andy
June 27th, 2009
7:36 am
Well, one good thing that Andy has done is really build a sense of family in here… group hug everybody… Andy you too…
Paul
June 27th, 2009
7:37 am
Kamchak 8:24
[[Forget the issue about Conyers. Paul’s position is that “life partner” is a more responsible position than parent.]]
see my last post downstairs. You know better, really, you do. I did not take a position on judging Conyers. I asked why some go after one politician, not another. When people came up with justifications, I asked “what about this?”
Did you ever attend school? Did the instructor asking questions mean he or she believed a particular position? Did you ever hear a business presentation that listed options and discussed significant advantages and disadvantages of various options?
It’s a typical tactic: falsely ascribe a position with which you disagree to the person who asks you to clarify your position. It’s effective with some, transparent for others.
Paul
June 27th, 2009
7:38 am
Hi Normal
It’s Saturday. Just finished the paper and some news items, tired of hearing All Jackson All the Time. Gets light enough, it’s outside before the temp climbs to 100.
Normal
June 27th, 2009
7:38 am
Who, the h-e-double toothpicks, is andy???
Normal
June 27th, 2009
7:40 am
Hey Paul, I’m working indoors today…but I’m gettin’ time and a half…
Seek and ye shall Find
June 27th, 2009
7:42 am
That said, conservatives have hit a rough patch in the last few years on the family values front, with Sen. John Ensign, Sen. David Vitter, and former Sen. Larry Craig all setting the stage for Sanford’s own marital misconduct controversy. And there is a growing belief among strategists that Republicans might — at least for the time being — be better served to stress the economic components of their platform rather the social or moral aspects. – HuffPo
“Rough patch”, eh! Where have I heard that one before. And, now the Republicans want to do what! Emphasize the economic components of their platform! And, what would that look like. I know. “How to sink the economy in one easy step — Elect a Republican.” Is that what we need to be reminded of — the Bush years. Go for it.
Wide stance Andy
June 27th, 2009
7:46 am
Andy is the resident “conservative” troll/bomb thrower… @@ has been rushing to his defense over the last couple days cause some of us mean ol Lib trolls have been picking on little Andy… up to speed now? It’s a troll war… ew that could be a new cartoon… Troll wars… but the trolls could mechanized… and we could have good trolls (liberals) who are kind and gracious and care for thier fellow trolls regardless of color or economic circumstance… and bad trolls (”conservatives”) who are only one color and are only nice to other Trolls of the same color and want to destroy the environment and they want to start wars with other Trolls who don’t worship the same Troll gods they do… and all they care about is Troll money… yeah…. Troll Wars….
Paul
June 27th, 2009
7:47 am
Normal
The other day I was checking out at a grocery store and the young lady greeted me with ‘how are you?’ I said ‘fine, and you?’ She said ‘great, I’m out of here in a couple minutes.’ I said ‘but then you won’t be making any money.’
You know those looks you get that are a priceless ‘huh?’
Seek 7:32
Please don’t be too hard on people who take a position and then change it when circumstances change (well, okay… play it for a while….) (typing with a whisper: we’ve a president who likes to do that…. the loyal opposition may toss that line, unfair or not, back at you…).
Wide stance Andy
June 27th, 2009
7:49 am
I sure hope Obama has found that veto pen that was lost in 2000… I don’t like the way this global warming bill has gone down. It’s just like the “conservatives” did things. 300 page bills dumped on the chamber in the middle of the night with a forced vote before anybody can even read it…
Normal
June 27th, 2009
7:49 am
What? Andy is WHINER/BRUTUS?
Wide stance Andy
June 27th, 2009
7:51 am
Well yeah he is, but I didn’t want to call him any names… @@’s very sensitive about that right now…
Normal
June 27th, 2009
7:52 am
I always heard “Fine” was F**k*d up, insecure, emotional, and neurotic…I just say I’m Normal…hehe
Wide stance Andy
June 27th, 2009
7:53 am
Paul, taking a line then being convinced that maybe it was not a correct line and changing your position is a hallmark of intelligence. Taking a line and sticking to it just to not be “wrong”, well we all see where that gets the country…
Normal
June 27th, 2009
7:54 am
Well, good…from now on I’ll say Brutus, sir…I’m not using “Whiner” anymore for the reasons I posted downstairs…
Normal
June 27th, 2009
7:55 am
Make that neurotic and emotional…I haven’t had all my coffee yet…
josef nix
June 27th, 2009
8:01 am
PAUL–left you a comment downstairs on the Palin bash…
Seek and ye shall Find
June 27th, 2009
8:01 am
OK, Paul. I’ll try not to be too hard on those politicians that spout rhetoric about their moral superiority and belief in (yet to be properly defined) family values, and such. Now, precisely, what are you inferring that our president has done in that regard.
josef nix
June 27th, 2009
8:03 am
NORMAL–kinda nice to have a day where I can play here and do what I have to do at the same time!
josef nix
June 27th, 2009
8:05 am
Seek and ye shall Find
in reference to your 8:01–Prop 8, preacher Warren, DADT, DOMA brief, that memo…but he’s a “fierce advocate” Jus’ sayin’
Wide stance Andy
June 27th, 2009
8:10 am
Well because Conyers isn’t affiliated with the political party that uses “family values” as a plank in it’s platform. Did I say plank? The “conservative” party uses “family values” more like a bludgeon. They get what they deserve in response to that.
If marriage is sacred and “family values” are to be the standard, then they as a party, and more importantly, as individuals HAVE to live up to thier own standards and values.
Democrats have plenty of thier own trash to take out, hopefully they’re learning, we got rid of McKinney, folks of color have finally seen enough of her act… we’ve got a few more that need to go as well…
Republicans just can’t come to grips with that whole “we were wrong” idea, if you’re never wrong then there’s nothing to fix…
ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
josef nix
June 27th, 2009
8:11 am
NORMAL “…I said you wanna be startin’ something, you got to be startin’ somethin…you stuck in the middle…”
Jus’ sayin’
Paul
June 27th, 2009
8:13 am
Wide Stance Andy 7:53
Well, I’d offer it takes some people a bit longer than others to see what’s there. Kinda happens when you’re insulated and have the same people telling you the same stuff day after day. Let’s hope this administration breaks the cycle.
your other post – well, Pres Obama’s already uncapped his veto pen for the Defense Bill if it goes through with the corporate sellouts for the F22 fighter and the F35 extra engine. Progress!!!
Seek 8:01
I don’t think I inferred anything in that regard. I did refer to Pres Obama changing his mind on some things.
Which I don’t think is a bad thing (changing one’s mind). Nor do I necessarily disagree with his new positions. I noted the other day to RW-(the original) that our Pres is causing no bit of consternation among the farleft and if he keeps it up, he just may win over a bunch of conservatives!
Normal
June 27th, 2009
8:13 am
josef nix
June 27th, 2009
8:05 am
Seek and ye shall Find
————
I used to do a lot of that when I was a kid…mostly in the dark…
Wide Mouth for Andy
June 27th, 2009
8:22 am
I’m thinking about taking my Michael Jackson poster down but that would leave a big hole on the wall next to John Wayne Gacy.
What do you think, everyone, should I fill it back in with Perez Hilton?
He’s just so……..ew.
ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
Seek and ye shall Find
June 27th, 2009
8:22 am
josef,
To start with, he’s got a full term to make progress on campaign promises and, in my humble opinion, such things as the economy, the environment, the wars, healthcare, etc., just take precedence over other issues. Further, he definitely has an uphill battle with regard to gay rights and perhaps now is not the time for him to be pressing that singular topic too fiercely. Regardless, I still do not equate politics and one’s potentially changing stance on issues over time with the use of morality as a faux political tool. I seem to recall the Republican Party drawing the line in the sand with their attacks on Clinton (and Clinton was wrong to cheat on his wife and he was wrong to lie under oath) and many Republicans taking the moral high ground. Well, there is a price to be paid for doing so.
Seek and ye shall Find
June 27th, 2009
8:28 am
Paul, when you take one issue or statement or whatever and highlight it and then insert another name into the sentence or sentences without making any distinction regarding the insertion of that other name, then you are making an inference by association. Just sayin.
Wide stance Andy
June 27th, 2009
8:30 am
Hehe… Andy says he wants to fill in Perez Hilton… hehe… you can’t make this stuff up…
ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
I Report (-: You Whine )-:
June 27th, 2009
8:31 am
Aahhh, yes, the Urinal runs propoganda stories for it’s favorite pedophile-
Heart attack might have killed Jackson-Urinal front page
Meanwhile, back on Earth-
He had bruises on his chest consistent with someone trying to revive him, but there were no obvious signs of a heart attack, which leads investigators to believe some sort of drug or drug combination caused either the heart to stop beating or the lungs to stop breathing.
This is on top of yesterday’s lying article that he had some sexual problems in which the Urinal failed to mention it involved underage boys.
Is this your idea of a hero, AJC?
Wide Mouth for Andy
June 27th, 2009
8:33 am
What’s wrong with having sex with little boys, huh Andy?
Your nothing but a troll, ew.
ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
Wide stance Andy
June 27th, 2009
8:34 am
Hmmmm…. Drudgereport ran the same stories, is Drudge a liberul hack too…
ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
josef nix
June 27th, 2009
8:34 am
Seek and ye shall Find
It’s easy enough to say when you’ve not been waiting as long as me and my Unmentionable have and if you don’t plan to do anything, then say so and be done with it. I didn’t expect the bus to stop here but the rocks being chunked at me from those on board aren’t very pleasant either.
And as far as uphill battle is concerned, DADT repeal has the support of the MAJORITY of the population of all stripes, a point Rachel Maddow seems to be the only one making. Prop 8 and preacher Warren had nothing to do with this “uphill battle.”
“Perhaps now is not the time for him to be pressing that singular topic too fiercely…” Well, then, don’t go calling yourself a fierce advocate. And if not now, when? What to you and others may be a “singular topic” shades and colors every fiber of my being and excuse me if I don’t feel it’s in my best interest to shut up and go away…
catlady
June 27th, 2009
8:35 am
I hope he is experiencing the peace he could not seem to find in this world.
Wide stance Andy
June 27th, 2009
8:36 am
I’m pretty sure Andy wouldn’t want the “Urinal” to be running stories about his activities with underage boys… I’m just sayin’…
ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
Paul
June 27th, 2009
8:38 am
Seek 8:28
?
I was talking about Pres Obama reversing himself on a number of (national security) issues. That was all – nothing about the morality schtick at all – unless you’re referring to a post other than my 7:47.
catlady
June 27th, 2009
8:39 am
“For decades, the GOP has used issues like respect for the sanctity of marriage and the notion of family values as a key component of its political platform and a point of divergence between Republicans and Democrats. A series of sex scandals involving high-ranking officials, however, has drastically altered that equation. And now some strategists are questioning whether the party should rethink the way it emphasizes these matters.”
What’s that little thing about being known by your acts? Well, we have seen enough.
I Report (-: You Whine )-:
June 27th, 2009
8:39 am
House OKs global warming bill-Urinal
Now the dimocrats have their screaming headline, all of their mouthbreathing moonbats think the planet is “saved,” Mission Accomplished!
Now it can quietly crash and burn in the Senate, hahahahahahaha.
pukes
Normal
June 27th, 2009
8:40 am
Checkin’ out for a while…my test equipment isn’t testing. The ol’ techasaurus has to troubleshoot…bye for now…
Normal
June 27th, 2009
8:41 am
Before I go…Top of the morning to you BRUTUS, sir…
josef nix
June 27th, 2009
8:42 am
catlady @ 8:35–ditto
Paul
June 27th, 2009
8:43 am
Well, Spkr Pelosi can enjoy her ‘victory’. But it was only a battle. I’m betting her side loses in the Senate. And there goes the war.
If they’d just go for the pollution elimination – maybe a gov’t controlled single payer system – and not create a market (cap n trade) and turn it over to the same Wall Street goombahs who helped give us this financial meltdown (I still can’t figure out why Democrats turned to the Street on such an issue, unless it’s the money…. nawwwww…) well, maybe they’d win the war.
But not now.
Seek and ye shall Find
June 27th, 2009
8:44 am
josef,
I hear you and I’m not against your fight for equality. But, I suppose we do have different priorities. Keep up the fight.
josef nix
June 27th, 2009
8:45 am
catlady–”What’s that little thing about being known by your acts? Well, we have seen enough”.
As a wise woman once said to me, “there’s only a limited number of things any two or more people of any combination of sexes can do with other before it gets repetitous.”
josef nix
June 27th, 2009
8:47 am
NORMAL–shoot some trouble for me, got the grill heatin up today!
Vinny
June 27th, 2009
8:49 am
Jay,
Why didn’t you choose a topic that really matters? – Something that will negatively affect the livlihood of every man, woman, and child for generations to come if it passes the Senate?
You could have discussed the Cap and Tax bill that just passed in the House.
You could have at least honored Farrah Fawcett instead. At least she was never accused of molesting little boys.
Bud Wiser
June 27th, 2009
8:51 am
Iran’s hardline president lashed out anew at the United States and President Barack Obama on Saturday, accusing him of interference and suggesting that Washington’s stance on Iran’s post election turmoil could imperil Obama’s aim of improving relations.
“We are surprised at Mr. Obama,” Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said in remarks to judiciary officials broadcast on state television. “Didn’t he say that he was after change? Why did he interfere?”
“They keep saying that they want to hold talks with Iran … but is this the correct way? Definitely, they have made a mistake,” Ahmadinejad said.
Duh.
Mr Dope with Chains is even ridiculed by those he panders to…..he must have not bowed deeply enough.
Even the mad dog of the desert knows that Obowo is about anything but what he says (”change?”). When mongrels like mad dog see it and call it out, and Obowo’s legions of troglodytes cannot, I guess it shows just how stupid the cracker chasers really are.
If you trolls were not so unbelievably stupid before now, well, there is no ‘hope (and change)’ for you after all. Jeez, dumber than a camel jockey.
Seek and ye shall Find
June 27th, 2009
8:51 am
I see Georgia lost two more banks on Friday. The list just keeps growing.
ken
June 27th, 2009
8:52 am
Cap and Trade; Just one step to TOTAL GOVERNMENT CONTROL. Even Jimmy is looking pretty good at this point.
josef nix
June 27th, 2009
8:54 am
Seek and ye shall Find
Yes, you hear well and that, I suppose, is progress. But where do you get the idea that we have different “priorities?” I am a citizen, too, albeit a second class one, and I am affected by all these major problems every bit as much as, and in some cases more than, the rest of my society. I am making the point that it’s not what he’s NOT doing, it’s what he IS doing that’s got my dander ruffled.
Paul
June 27th, 2009
8:59 am
ken
If the gov’t wanted total control, they wouldn’t have gone with cap n trade. That tosses control to the energy industry, wall street traders, fund managers and manufacturers.
What the gov’t wanted was a new source of $$$$. As usual.
@@
June 27th, 2009
9:01 am
Maybe @@ is morally superior to me.
Good grief, Bosch!! Would it be possible for you have a pity party without me. I read your long 10:40 something about how I set out to make you feel like “some moral defect”.
I’m as flawed as the next person. The one flaw I HAVE overcome (used to be like you) is that I no longer seek to justify by over analyzing why wrongs are committed. If I were to look deep enough into everyone’s psyche, I could come up with an excuse for all behaviors that have a negative impact on others.
I don’t know how you guys have ongoing back and forths here. The only reason I didn’t respond in a timely manner is because I wasn’t sitting here just waiting for you to post so that I could quickly respond. Regardless of what you think, my intention is not to make you look bad by posting in your absence. Are you paranoid or what????
Granted, you have said that MJ’s pedophilia cannot be excused but then you spend an “exhaustive” amount of time doing just that.
By Bosch 5:49 — But I seriously do not think that he knew that sleeping with 13 year olds was wrong because I do not feel he was sexually mature enough or emotionally mature enough to know the difference.
He knew enough about human sexuality to make millions of dollars putting it on display. The guy was hands-on when it came to organizing his tours, special effects, wardrobe, cosmetic surgeries. He was no dummy, Bosch. If he could orchestrate such spectacular shows, he was certainly capable of knowing what was a good decision and what was a bad decision. The bad decisions came AFTER the child-abuse scandals surfaced. Before those, he was doing alright for himself and his leeches. Maybe all his enablers gave him a sense of power that he chose to abuse. With his millions, he could have paid the world’s most renowned psychiatrist. I mean we all knew he was weird…we would have expected him to get help but he didn’t….why? Public image?
Have you ever wondered why none of his “alleged” victims were girls? I mean….he certainly had the ability to make choices when it came to sexual preference unless of course he was gay. If he was gay why not just choose men? Could it be that he didn’t wanna risk damaging his star status? But children? that’s a plus as long as no one digs too deep.
I hope never to hear that he molested his “OWN” children.
ken
June 27th, 2009
9:10 am
The more govt taxes you, the more control they have over you. We loose power when we loose money.
Seek and ye shall Find
June 27th, 2009
9:28 am
Well, government does need large sources of revenues in order to keep up the good fights. So, cap and trade is better than some alternatives.
TnGelding
June 27th, 2009
9:32 am
ken
June 27th, 2009
9:10 am
Then we should have plenty of power:
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/63412.html
DB, Gwinnettian
June 27th, 2009
9:42 am
I see Georgia lost two more banks on Friday.
Not “lost.” EATED.
Get hep to the gone-cat lingo, Daddy-o.
DB, Gwinnettian
June 27th, 2009
9:45 am
Saw some talk upthread of feminine ideals, as represented in posters, from back in our yout.
Not to go all one-uppy on you commoners, but I’m happy to say that my pin-up gals were Tina Weymouth, Debby Harry and Patti Smith. (Torn from the pages of Creem and Rolling Stone.)
Take that, mass-marketeering capitalist pig-dogs!
DB, Gwinnettian
June 27th, 2009
10:03 am
We loose power when we loose money.
We even “loooose” our ability to spell, such is the wickedness of Soshamalizm!
ken
June 27th, 2009
10:38 am
Cap and Trade: biggest shell game EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!