More carnage in Iraq as U.S. withdraws from cities
These are dangerous times in Iraq. From the AP, filed within the hour:
“BAGHDAD (AP) — A booby-trapped motorcycle loaded with nails and ball-bearings exploded in a crowded bazaar Friday in Baghdad, killing at least 15 people, Iraqi officials said. The attack struck just four days before the deadline for U.S. combat troops to withdraw from cities.
The wave of violence that has killed more than 200 people this week has raised fresh doubts about the ability of Iraqi forces to provide security as their American partners become less visible.
The explosion occurred just after 9 a.m. when the market was packed with young people buying or selling motorcycles in central Baghdad, according to police and hospital officials.
Ghaith Abdul-Allah, 35, was unloading motorcycles he planned to sell from his truck when the blast occurred.
“I saw a ball of fire and some motorbikes were lifted about 10 meters (yards) into the air,” he said. “When the smoke from the explosion vanished, I saw a large number of young men lying on the ground soaked in blood.”
… The escalation in violence is overshadowing Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki’s declaration of a “great victory” in the U.S. pullout from urban areas by Tuesday’s deadline. He has declared June 30 a national holiday to be marked with celebrations.”
Unfortunately, this spate of attacks had to be expected, and there’s not much to be done except ride them out. I doubt they’re occurring because of a real security vacuum created by our departure; those gaps in security will show over time, not all at once. Rather, it represents a coordinated campaign by terrorists to demonstrate their continued relevance at a high-profile moment in Iraq’s transition. They’re trying to send a political message to an Iraqi domestic audience that Maliki’s government is not as strong as it pretends to be.
The Iraqis want their country back, and we need to let them have it, for better or worse.
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216 comments Add your comment
DebbieDoRight
June 26th, 2009
10:15 am
what does it take to load yourself up with tons of explosives and murder the innocent?
Don’t know. Could you demonstrate?
I know, I know…….I’m just enabling him……..
Re: Iraq – is the ratcheting up of violence any surprise to anyone? ALQ want America to join back in to the fray and say, “Hey we’re not going anywhere!!” then they can send out a video decrying American imperialism and how they went back on their word to leave.
Paul
June 26th, 2009
10:17 am
getalife
A lonnnng time back I said Saddam’s problem was Clinton didn’t believe him and Bush did. So let’s hope Obama takes Maliki at his word (we won and are making the American occupiers leave).
GayGrayGeek
June 26th, 2009
10:22 am
@@ – Your defense of Veruca Salt is heartwarming, though I wonder why all the vociferousness about it. If Jay doesn’t need ANYONE’S support, then neither does Veruca. Jes sayin’…
GayGrayGeek
June 26th, 2009
10:22 am
USinUK – EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEK!
@@
June 26th, 2009
10:25 am
USinUK:
The same can be said for anyone of you. I rarely see Andy attacking any of you unless your comment is directed towards him.
I’ve never seen jay post a column where Andy was the TOPIC but yet you and others continue to make it all about him.
It gets really old for the rest of us here.
USinUK
June 26th, 2009
10:25 am
hahahahahaha … seriously.
The Truth is Way Out There
June 26th, 2009
10:25 am
We need some scientists to start talking about the discovery of the world’s largest oil reserves in some part of Antarctica or some other remote area that few, if any are interested in. How about Bikini Atoll.
The Truth is Way Out There
June 26th, 2009
10:28 am
Well, @@. You could change things for Andy. Just get on here every day and post insane rants and lies and other such nonsense and people will focus their attention on you instead. Go ahead. Give it a try.
Paul
June 26th, 2009
10:28 am
Truth Out There
You may want to read up on Russia’s claiming a large part of the Arctic…..
Kamchak
June 26th, 2009
10:29 am
“It gets really old for the rest of us here.”
Please don’t presume to speak for anyone else but yourself.
@@
June 26th, 2009
10:29 am
It’s jay’s TOPIC that needs attention/defending GGG.
You people simply don’t get it.
Now that’s all I’m saying about it. Were I to continue debating your NON-POINTS, I’d look as stupid as you guys.
Normal
June 26th, 2009
10:30 am
@@; The inane ramblings, mostly off subject, copied and pasted from totally rabid sources of said “Andy”, smacks of a disrespect for us too…Just sayin’…and I’ll say more if you want…
Doggone/GA
June 26th, 2009
10:31 am
“It gets really old for the rest of us here.”
That’s what scroll bar is for.
USinUK
June 26th, 2009
10:33 am
@@ –
“The same can be said for anyone of you. I rarely see Andy attacking any of you unless your comment is directed towards him.”
you know, *I* rarely see him actually having a conversation of any kind. as I said earlier, his usual MO is to post something inane from Dennis Prager or one of the other Townhall flunkies as if it is gospel. then, when someone actually, you know, tries to ENGAGE him on the subject, off he flits to the post something from World Nutcases Daily rather than have a discussion.
“you and others continue to make it all about him”
I and others usually have better things to discuss — and do. however, today’s thesis that giving the news = promoting terrorists’ interests was worthy of comment.
sorry if that offends you or makes you weary.
GayGrayGeek
June 26th, 2009
10:33 am
@@ – I rarely see Andy attacking any of you unless your comment is directed towards him.
Then you’re either reading selectively, or have a lousy memory. Many have been the time that I’ve replied to another person’s post, only to have Veruca barge in with a non-sequitor attempt at one of his pitiful “insults” directed towards me.
Normal
June 26th, 2009
10:36 am
@@…One other thing…I respect “Andy’s” right to say whatever he wants on this blog. After all, it is his right…as it is ours. He has the right to open his mouth and get hoof and mouth disease, just as you or I do…Just sayin’
The Truth is Way Out There
June 26th, 2009
10:37 am
I’m already aware of those with an interest in oil reserves and their claims on parts of the Arctic, Paul. Of course, if you happen to have a link to something recent, you may want to just post it instead of suggesting that others need to educate themselves on topics. Just sayin’. And, thank you in advance for your future consideration.
USinUK
June 26th, 2009
10:38 am
“You people simply don’t get it.”
so says the person who was discussing drug abuse in a post about Sarah Palin yesterday.
just sayin.
Peadawg
June 26th, 2009
10:39 am
You know people, Andy is probably loving the fact that the blog has turned to everyone talking about him. Yes he can get very annoying, but so can Mrs. Godzilla
with all of the news article links she posts.
How about we get back to politics?
TnGelding
June 26th, 2009
10:40 am
TW
June 26th, 2009
9:48 am
I think the Iraq had started taking over the payments before ‘W’ left office:
http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=62314
“To add to this problem is the fact that the SOI are being paid less and late. When Baghdad agreed to take over the first SOI in Baghdad in October 2008 they announced that they were cutting their pay. The Americans had been given them between $400-$600/month. Now they were going to receive $250/month. Some SOI have also begun to complain that the government is late with their payments. The New York Times contacted seven SOI units in Diyala and Baghdad in March 2009 and found that six said they had not been paid for two months.”
http://www.epic-usa.org/node/1119
(Where is all that “oil money” GOING?
Toe tappin' Andy
June 26th, 2009
10:41 am
“I rarely see Andy attacking any of you unless your comment is directed towards him.”
Define… rarely. As in never, or just sometimes?
I thought you were going to give up blogging here?
Go back to defending David Koresh, he’s a much more likeable guy that this Andy fella…
ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
DebbieDoRight
June 26th, 2009
10:41 am
@@: Obama needs to talk less. Stop showing his hand at the table.
You’re the only conservative who thinks that. Faux News was ranting and foaming at the mouth because he didn’t say enough. Even when they were told by Iranian dissidents that Obama was taking the correct tact; Faux News cut their mikes and ignored what they didn’t wanna hear.
Paul: CENTCOM’s tasking was to take out the Taliban government which was directly supporting al Qaeda. We did.
We’re talking about Iraq, NOT Afghanistan. There was never any Taliban in Iraq until AFTER the US attacked and destabilized the country.
Soothsayer: The history of British involvement in Afghanistan is not reassuring. We lost an entire army in the late 19th Century
I was reading up on that. The history is very convoluted by what I find most fascinating and strategic is that after WWI, Turkey, (who once was the sovereign power of most of the Middle East); lost the region for their support of Germany. No other country lost as much in that war as Turkey did, and Turkey didn’t even instigate the war!! It was destined and designed from the beginning to position Britain in a place of power of the region. Turkey was swindled out of their sovereignty and one has to wonder if they were still over the region would it be as volatile as it is now.
The Truth is Way Out There
June 26th, 2009
10:42 am
Were I to continue debating your NON-POINTS, I’d look as stupid as you guys.
Don’t hold back on our account. After all, it’s Friday. It’s the end of another work week for some folks. Of course, it’s just another day of unemployment for others and the next day of retirement for yet others, etc. But, I digress.
Toe tappin' Andy
June 26th, 2009
10:42 am
Nah, debate means someone could actually see another’s point, that will never happen here.
Normal
June 26th, 2009
10:46 am
PEADAWG: Call the ball…Play Jay and name the subject! You are correct, it’s time to move on…Everybody sing! “What the world needs now is love, sweet love…”
The Truth is Way Out There
June 26th, 2009
10:47 am
The problem over at Faux News is that Hannity needs some more sound bites from Obama to modify. Perhaps Hannity should put in a request to the White House for the particular words that he needs in order to construct the desired message from Obama.
Doggone/GA
June 26th, 2009
10:49 am
“I respect “Andy’s” right to say whatever he wants on this blog. After all, it is his right…as it is ours”
NO one has a right to “say whatever he wants” on a blog. We are all here subject to the tolerance of the blog owner. His blog, his rules.
I Report :-) You Whine :-(
June 26th, 2009
10:50 am
Toe tappin’ Andy
June 26th, 2009
10:42 am
Nah, debate means someone could actually see another’s point, that will never happen here.
The day you make a point, we will all be sure to let you know.
You are just a small, stupid angry little waste of humanity doing the only thing you can do, because of your mental defects, lashing out at what you can’t understand with your filthy little tirades.
Knowing what a pointless, stupid existence you lead always makes me smile. (-:
Paul
June 26th, 2009
10:53 am
Truth way out 10:37
I took your earlier post as one of mild speculation, one of those ‘it’d be nice if’ things. I thought it enough to reference that oil reserves are in the Arctic and Russia’s caused no little consternation with their territorial claims. My experience is very few people want to take the time do delve into such issues and consider the implications, so it’s frankly not worth my time to cite the latest source –
DebbieDoRight
G’morning! Now, I’m typing this with a smile…. so….
[[Faux News was ranting and foaming at the mouth because he didn’t say enough. ]]
why is it people who go on about ‘faux news’ sound like they’re the ones doing the ranting thing?
Now, I’m serious:
[[Paul: CENTCOM’s tasking was to take out the Taliban government which was directly supporting al Qaeda. We did.
We’re talking about Iraq, NOT Afghanistan. There was never any Taliban in Iraq until AFTER the US attacked and destabilized the country.]]
Okay….. that was in (and I cited everything just above the part you copied) reference to
Wide Stance Andy 8:40, who wrote to RW with [[So RW,
I guess we should fold up shop and exit Afghanistan? Can we put a “Mission Unaccomplished” banner on an Aircraft carrier, put Obama in a flight suit and have him swagger across the deck? Er, we WERE actually attacked from Afghanistan soil, you’re intelligent enough to actually realize that.]]
So you see, DDR, you may be talking about Iran, but Wide Stance Andy and RW were talking Afghanistan, which is what I addressed.
And, didn’t matter if we wouldn’t have invaded Iraq. AQ would have flocked to Afg and Pakistan, which could very easily have been lots bloodier with a higher casualty count for us than Iraq was. Speculation, sure, but eminently possible.
TnGelding
June 26th, 2009
10:54 am
The rules allow for going off topic, and I’ve noticed a differnt tone to many of “Andy’s” postings lately.
Kamchak
June 26th, 2009
10:54 am
“And then some people do the exact same thing in response they get their posts pulled.”
I think everyone here has had the experience of having their posts pulled, if not then they haven’t posted enough to enter into that statistical universe. You are one of the most prolific posters here, so it would stand to reason that yours would be pulled more often.
Mrs. Godzilla
June 26th, 2009
10:55 am
Peadawg
Poor Lamb! Thanks for the hint.
This one’s for you!
Nobody Expects the Spanish Prosecution
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2009/06/nobody-expects-spanish-prosecution
and on a personal note, you’re kinda cute and cuddly….
http://www.spunkysprout.com/pea.html
Normal
June 26th, 2009
10:55 am
Whiner, listen to me… when I first came on this blog, I did find your “Handle” very confrontational, but it sorta fit your style. Then we started knocking heads over your obsession with President Obama. That’s when I started calling you BRUTUS. You are as anti-Obama as Brutus was anti-Caesar. Brutus is a good handle for you…not confrontational and it states where you stand…use it with my blessing…Just sayin’
Peadawg
June 26th, 2009
10:56 am
“You are just a small, stupid angry little waste of humanity doing the only thing you can do, because of your mental defects, lashing out at what you can’t understand with your filthy little tirades.”
You talking to yourself in the mirror or something? You’re even getting on Republicans last nerves man, geeze! Say something meaningful. You give us a really bad name (kind of like the woman I saw doing her nails while driving…she gives women drivers a bad name)
Doggone/GA
June 26th, 2009
10:56 am
“We’re talking about Iraq, NOT Afghanistan. There was never any Taliban in Iraq until AFTER the US attacked and destabilized the country.”
Not Taliban…Al Qaeda
TnGelding
June 26th, 2009
10:57 am
Paul
June 26th, 2009
10:53 am
But we weren’t attacked by the Taliban, and in fact were working with their “government.” We should have given them more time to help track down and turnover UBL.
pat
June 26th, 2009
10:58 am
Yet another failing obama policy. There is a reason not to publically state when and how we are pulling out of the region. It is giving these “freedom fighters” this information that enables them to unleash this tyranny. And truth be told Iraq may not be ready for it, and if they are not it will be a mess and a blood bath as it already is.
This whole “…better or worse.” notion is the dumbest thing I have heard. If “worse” happens it will be a quagmire and a terrorist haven. It will be lawless and malitia ruled. Guess what will happen if that happens? We’ll be back, not even obama would be able to stop it.
DebbieDoRight
June 26th, 2009
10:58 am
Ok I’m sleep deprived here!! Even though I don’t work on Fridays, I still get up at 5:00 a.m. like I’ve got somewhere to go!! Sorry about my posts!! Will try to explain what the heck I was trying to say:
The history is very convoluted by what I find most fascinating…. That should read BUT what I find most fascinating.
It was destined and designed from the beginning to position Britain in a place of power of the region… That should read the taking away of Turkish interests in Afghanistan was destined………to position Britain in a place of power OVER the region.
WHEW Sorry about that!!!
Peadawg
June 26th, 2009
10:59 am
HAHA! That’s awesome Mrs. Godzilla. If it wasn’t 49 bucks, i’d buy it and put it on my desk here at work!
The Truth is Way Out There
June 26th, 2009
11:01 am
Truth way out 10:37
I took your earlier post as one of mild speculation, one of those ‘it’d be nice if’ things. I thought it enough to reference that oil reserves are in the Arctic and Russia’s caused no little consternation with their territorial claims. My experience is very few people want to take the time do delve into such issues and consider the implications, so it’s frankly not worth my time to cite the latest source –
Clearly, your arrogance becomes you.
USinUK
June 26th, 2009
11:03 am
TnG –
“But we weren’t attacked by the Taliban, and in fact were working with their “government.” ”
now, granted, a few things have slipped here and there in my memory, but I don’t believe we EVER worked with the Taliban. We worked with the Pakistani government, but never with the Taliban.
having said that, I’m open to evidence that says otherwise … I seem to remember the WH condemning the Talibans destruction of the statues of the Buddha and cracking down on the population … but, like I said, if you can point me to evidence that says we worked with them, I’ll go with that
TW
June 26th, 2009
11:04 am
TnGelding – great point about the oil money????
I have a problem with paying them to behave in the first place – just seem to go against all that ‘tough resolve’ talk…kinda smells like handing it off to the next guy, as well…
As far the severe ‘pay-cut’ in Oct, just like the recession it takes ahwile to settle out.
Perhaps Iraq could unify itself by coming the aid of their opressed brothers in Iran…ya know, being that Iraq is now a beacons\ of middle eastern democracy and all…
Paul
June 26th, 2009
11:04 am
Mrs. Godzilla
I saw the Spanish Counsel General Villalonga interviewed recently. He said Spain has no problem with the United States and “One judge had a problem with President Bush, but I think that in a few years the world will judge George Bush in a very different way. He made mistakes, but he was a great leader and Iraq is a better place now than it was.”
Sounds like damage control -
TNGelding
I believe we saw the government of Afghanistan (Taliban) and AQ as pretty well interconnected. Near as I remember, Taliban weren’t serious about handing over OBL and further, not supporting international terrorism. So we took them out.
And stayed.
DebbieDoRight
June 26th, 2009
11:04 am
Pat: Yet another failing obama policy. There is a reason not to publically state when and how we are pulling out of the region. It is giving these “freedom fighters” this information that enables them to unleash this tyranny. And truth be told Iraq may not be ready for it, and if they are not it will be a mess and a blood bath as it already is.
Pat the rules for the pull out were signed by Bush in 2008 and were SPELLED out in the agreement. Obama had nothing to do with that; Bush and Iraq came to that agreement PUBLICLY. Obama can’t be blamed for EVERYTHING. Duh.
getalife
June 26th, 2009
11:06 am
FBI Files: Saddam Hussein Faked Having WMDs
Paul,
President Clinton did not get punked to occupy Iraq.
Iraq won.
Move on.
Paul
June 26th, 2009
11:10 am
Truth way out 11:01
Having a bad day?
Sounds as if you’re another regular doing the name change to attempt a fresh start? If so, I take it you’ve been around long enough and would like to say my impression is incorrect, that many, many bloggers here are in fact interested in pursuing topics such as implications of a country’s territorial claims in previously unclaimed regions?
Really?
I posted a link once, then again, then again, to a dispassionate, scientifically-based assessment of man-caused temperature change and implications for the future. I think there was ONE person who listened to it. All the others – happier flinging the usual rejoinders, it appears.
Arrogant? More of ‘fool me once…”
TW
June 26th, 2009
11:12 am
getalife – don’t know if ‘Iraq’ won, as they sure as heck got the snot knocked out of their place, but Al Qaeda DEFINATELY took home first place. Never in obl’s wildest dreams could he have imagined such a return on his tower attack investment.
How in the world did a guy who lives in a cave absolutely destroy, make a complete fool out of, the leader of the free world?
Our soldiers deserved so much better.
Paul
June 26th, 2009
11:14 am
getalife
We’ve been over this before. Saddam made claims. Clinton accepted them but did not take action. Bush heard them and took Saddam seriously.
So my point was, Obama should take al-Maliki seriously (as Bush did Saddam) and not only move on, but move out. If he listens but does nothing different like Clinton did with Saddam, we’re gonna be in Iraq for decades.
Time, as you say, to move on.
My money’s on Obama staying.
Normal
June 26th, 2009
11:18 am
Paul
June 26th, 2009
11:14 am
—————
I president Obama dowsn’t get out…He will go down in history as a one term wonder…Just sayin’
getalife
June 26th, 2009
11:18 am
“LONDON – British Prime Minister Gordon Brown authorized a long-awaited inquiry into the Iraq war on Monday, but defied requests from bereaved families and campaigners to hold sessions in public.
Brown told the House of Commons that an examination of mistakes made during and after the 2003 U.S.-led invasion will begin next month, but take place entirely behind closed doors.
“Now is the right time to ensure we have a proper process in place to learn the lessons of the complex and often controversial events of the last six years,” Brown said.”
That is how you learn from being punked.
Obama chose to cover it up so it will happen again.
And you wonder why history keeps repeating itself.
Well, there is big money made on the death of our troops.
DebbieDoRight
June 26th, 2009
11:18 am
Hey Paul Good Morning 2 U 2!!! Nothing else, just good morning?
Poster: Not Taliban…Al Qaeda
You are correct. My bad!
Way Out There: The problem over at Faux News is that Hannity needs some more sound bites from Obama to modify. Perhaps Hannity should put in a request to the White House for the particular words that he needs in order to construct the desired message from Obama.
WORD!!!
TnGelding
June 26th, 2009
11:20 am
pat
June 26th, 2009
10:58 am
The really smart one have been waiting for the U.S. to get out completely all along.
Peadawg
June 26th, 2009
11:20 am
DebbieDoRight: “WORD!!!
”
What word? (Go watch Jeff Dunham if you haven’t already…frigin’ hilarious)
getalife
June 26th, 2009
11:21 am
TW,
Iraq declared victory when the troops retreat from their cities.
The Shiites won because they now control Iraq.
Sunnis will continue the bombings.
Paul
June 26th, 2009
11:23 am
Normal
I think if it’s a one term thing, it’ll be over the economy.
In Iraq, I rather imagine if we pull out of the cities and take up in the hinterlands, then have the assistance (training, etc) teams out and about, and IF
American casualties stay real low (as they have since the surge, just had to put that in
)
Most American won’t care. When did Americans care about Iran? When American casualties started ratcheting up. I’d bet if we never found WMDs but there hadn’t been an insurrection and AQ campaign there, most American would’ve said “oh well, can’t win’em all” and Democrats never would have made it an issue.
“Bush was WRONG! He LIED! There were no WMDs”
Americans: So?
Dems: “okay… we’ll find something else to use…”
USinUK
June 26th, 2009
11:25 am
getalife –
“That is how you learn from being punked”
sorry, but I disagree. knowing this gummint (the current UK gummint, that is), I think the only way to get to the bottom of what they knew and when they knew it would be to hold public hearings similar to those of the 9/11 commission.
with the Labour government holding hearings of Tony Blair’s administration’s actions, this will be nothing more than “welp, we tried our best – but it looks like we did everythign right”
gah. I’m no fan of the Tories, but right now, they’d be a HUGE improvement over the high school student council we have right now.
DebbieDoRight
June 26th, 2009
11:26 am
Getalife: That is how you learn from being punked. Obama chose to cover it up so it will happen again.
I think the reason he chose to cover it up is because he found out something so horrendous that the previous administration had done, that if it were to be made public, there would be a world war (at the very least a war of words, partnership, and sharing of information); against the US that would be unsurpassed in history.
Paul
June 26th, 2009
11:26 am
DDR
Good morning to you, too!
Hey, no big deal. Easy to miss stuff while perusing these posts.
That’s one reason I like back and forths with you – you recognize when something’s not a big deal.
Y’know, I wonder… why do so many bloggers expect politicians to come clean and admit to ‘everything’ when they themselves have such a difficult time, and in fact will go to extraordinary lengths, to avoid saying “oops, sorry, I was a bit off on that one, wasn’t I?”
getalife
June 26th, 2009
11:26 am
After we are gone, the roles will reverse.
The Shiites will attack the Sunnis.
It’s payback time for the Shiites.
Paul
June 26th, 2009
11:33 am
USinUK
Check with Netflix (if you get it there) or with a local DVD rental shop for the collection of Yes, Prime Minister.
Not only is it hilarious, it’s some of the best episodes ever written dealing with office and political infighting.
getalife
June 26th, 2009
11:35 am
Debbie,
No, I think he is covering it up to keep w and cheney from being tried. He did the same with telcom amnesty and that technology is used against the Iranian people today. Senators and Presidents cover up crimes for each other.
Normal
June 26th, 2009
11:36 am
Paul
June 26th, 2009
11:23 am
Normal
I think if it’s a one term thing, it’ll be over the economy.
———————————-
The above is probably true, but I didn’t vote for him over the economy.
I voted for him over the war. If he doesn’t fulfill that promise, I will not vote for him for any reason.
————–
The apathy of the American people only comes from those that have no stake in the war. From Korea until now, that is the way it has always been…sad, isn’t it?
USinUK
June 26th, 2009
11:36 am
Paul –
I’ve only seen 1 episode of the show – they were in a middle-eastern country and they were all getting sloshed on the sly … VERY funny …
If you like that, try the New Statesman – absolutely hysterical. Rick Mayall (from the Young Ones) plays Alan B’Stard – an arrogant PM who is really just out to get what he can …
The Truth is Way Out There
June 26th, 2009
11:38 am
Truth way out 11:01
Having a bad day?
Sounds as if you’re another regular doing the name change to attempt a fresh start? If so, I take it you’ve been around long enough and would like to say my impression is incorrect, that many, many bloggers here are in fact interested in pursuing topics such as implications of a country’s territorial claims in previously unclaimed regions?
Really?
I posted a link once, then again, then again, to a dispassionate, scientifically-based assessment of man-caused temperature change and implications for the future. I think there was ONE person who listened to it. All the others – happier flinging the usual rejoinders, it appears.
Arrogant? More of ‘fool me once…
And, to think that you would have had me believe only a few posts earlier that you couldn’t be bothered. Well! You fooled me once, didn’t you.
USinUK
June 26th, 2009
11:39 am
Normal –
“The apathy of the American people only comes from those that have no stake in the war. From Korea until now, that is the way it has always been…sad, isn’t it?”
and that’s the biggest reason to reinstate national service – if EVERYone’s kid served in the military and if EVERYone’s kid was at risk of being sent off to war (rather than primarily those from the inner city and from the country), then more people would care what we’re fighting for.
that’s why we had the demonstrations we had during VN – the draft was the great leveller (although, as W and Cheney and their lot showed, if you had $$$ and connections, you could get deferments or cushy posts)
Bud Wiser
June 26th, 2009
11:39 am
“mm
June 26th, 2009
9:01 am
Whiner,
Nevermind the crazy christians blowing up doctors and clinics, molesting kids, etc.
I guess you’re all broken up over Micheal Jackson as well…..
And as usual, no offer of proof about Christians, just a stupid statement to be taken as fact because you say it?
Do you work for Urinal?
The Truth is Way Out There
June 26th, 2009
11:41 am
By the way, Paul, whiner is the resident expert on climate change. Surely you’ve noticed. Was he the one to provide you with a response.
TnGelding
June 26th, 2009
11:45 am
pat
June 26th, 2009
10:58 am
Bush had set the withdrawal dates before he left office:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/04/bush-thanks-iraqi-leaders_n_148571.html?show_comment_id=18525825
http://security.nationaljournal.com/2008/12/obama-withdrawal-from-iraq-how-fast.php
DebbieDoRight
June 26th, 2009
11:45 am
Paul: Y’know, I wonder… why do so many bloggers expect politicians to come clean and admit to ‘everything’ when they themselves have such a difficult time, and in fact will go to extraordinary lengths, to avoid saying “oops, sorry, I was a bit off on that one, wasn’t I?”
I think because we put so much our hopes and dreams in a politicians hands. When we elect them we expect them to be a cross between superman /batman/ conan the barbarian and the incredible hulk. We want to get our agendas heard and our projects done and we want our politicians to push those through anyway they can. If they have to step on the nay sayers, no problem just get what WE want done!! We the people, are all too human!!!
TW
June 26th, 2009
11:45 am
“Senators and Presidents cover up crimes for each other”
Apparently so – unless it has something to do with a blue dress…
Also, were the shoe on the other foot and it was Al Gore who’d raped the country and not ‘w’ (not that Al would invented the mythical ‘war on terror’ or let the drug companies write health car policy, gas compnaies white the energy policy, etc etc), the GOP would be holding hearings right now…or there would have already been a successful impeachment.
getalife
June 26th, 2009
11:47 am
One thing Obama told the truth on was he called Iraq a war of choice. The facts show they bulit the case around that choice.
The inquiry in Great Britain is addressing these facts.
Paul
June 26th, 2009
11:48 am
USinUK
Thanks! I just added it to my Netflix queue.
Normal
Well, I had a number of discussions here with Obama supporters who seemed to think he took the Code Pink and MoveOn position of ‘out’ meaning ‘out – everything, and quickly.’ I didn’t get the best reception when I noted he never actually said that.
And, I agree – it is sad.
Out there
do you have a point?
(Burgess Meredith to Jack Lemon in Grumpy Old Men: “Point? What point? I just like telling that story”).
USinUK
I’ve got to go in a bit, but let’s pick up on that topic some time, shall we? I am adamantly opposed to universal military service, for a whole host of reasons, from the practical, to the issue of military effectiveness, to basic tenets of freedom, to the idea that it could easily make for more military adventurism, not less.
Plus it’d cost too da#n much…
USinUK
June 26th, 2009
11:49 am
Bud –
“And as usual, no offer of proof about Christians, just a stupid statement to be taken as fact because you say it?”
um. the catholic church pedophile scandal. maybe you’ve heard of it.
Eric Rudolph and other people who have bombed clinics in the name of God. maybe you’ve heard of them.
these are facts, even if you want to disregard them.
DebbieDoRight
June 26th, 2009
11:50 am
they themselves have such a difficult time, and in fact will go to extraordinary lengths, to avoid saying “oops, sorry, I was a bit off on that one, wasn’t I?”
These people probably have not grown up in a huge family where family members take a certain JOY in pointing out everything that you’ve ever done wrong over and over and OVER. They have photos, recordings, and VIDEOS showing you making a fool of yourself and at the drop of a hat, would LOVE to show them to everyone you’ve ever known!! When you grow up like that, you learn to take mistakes in stride, say “sorry” quickly and sincerely and move on!!!
USinUK
June 26th, 2009
11:50 am
Paul –
for all the reasons you list, national service will never happen again. for all the reasons I list, it’s a danged shame that most people have no insight into how the military works.
Peadawg
June 26th, 2009
11:53 am
USinUK @ 11:49
You can’t say all the Christians are that way just because a few idiots bomb a abortion clinic. I know I for one would never go to that extreme measures.
Paul
June 26th, 2009
11:54 am
DebbieDoRight
Well, personally, I want’em to be a bit more like Wonder Woman or Batwoman or even Xena, Warrior Princess, but that’s just me….
The Truth is Way Out There
June 26th, 2009
11:55 am
How in the world did a guy who lives in a cave absolutely destroy, make a complete fool out of, the leader of the free world?
It was easy. He didn’t make him what he was. He just exposed him.
USinUK
June 26th, 2009
11:55 am
Peadawg -
good gravy – who said anything about ALL Christians …
@@
June 26th, 2009
11:55 am
I and others usually have better things to discuss — and do. however, today’s thesis that giving the news = promoting terrorists’ interests was worthy of comment.
Oh really?
Oft is the time when I come in here to observe your online discussions on food & wine (sorry Paul), gay relationships (sorry josef) and selections in literature (sorry again, josef). Granted, there’s only so much can be said on the topic-at-hand but good grief!!!! Can’t you guys hold off until Friday’s downtime? If not then I’ll simply interject with something I consider noteworthy.
As to Andy’s first comment?
today’s thesis that giving the news = promoting terrorists’ interests was worthy of comment.
What ARE the militant’s objective(s)? It’s one of two or both.
jay’s call to withdraw assists the militant’s in accomplishing one.
At this point, it’s the people of Iraq that should be our foremost concern — many of whom fear our troop withdrawal as evidenced in a link I offered yesterday afternoon. I’m sure nobody was interested in reading a “first-hand account” from the people who mattered.
There’s something to be said for The Pottery Barn Rule.
BTW, I didn’t just barge in with a post on drug addiction. A discussion on Norway’s socialization preceded. I simply joined in.
Now I’m off on a short visit to Turkey — one of Obama’s strategic interests which I share. Not only are they very relevant to our efforts in Iraq but also our push-pull with Russia and the E.U. which then ties into his Af/Pak project.
An intergovernmental agreement on the Nabucco pipeline, which will carry natural gas to Europe via Turkey, will be confirmed by consensus June 26 if no government involved raises an objection, Hurriyet reported, citing an EU official. If no objections to the agreement are raised, the document will be signed in July, the EU official said.
May not come to pass anytime soon but it does send a message to Russia — Putin’s counter move will be interesting.
Doggone/GA
June 26th, 2009
11:56 am
“I am adamantly opposed to universal military service, for a whole host of reasons, from the practical, to the issue of military effectiveness”
This is probably the best reason.
“to basic tenets of freedom”
I don’t see this. Is it loss of freedom to make children go to school? To get childhood disease shots? To make drivers pay for insurance? Or for that matter to get a driver’s license?
“to the idea that it could easily make for more military adventurism, not less.”
ANY standing army carries that danger with it. It doesn’t matter how the soldiers got there…there’s always going to be an element of “we’re paying for ‘em, let’s put ‘em to work fighting a war”
“Plus it’d cost too da#n much”
“Universal service”? Probably, because it requires ALL eligible young people to be IN the Armed Services…even if they’re not needed at the time. That’s definitely an extra expense. BUT – reinstateing the draft, with a lottery every year for the number of soldiers needed that year is an alternative. It puts EVERY parent’s child in danger of being drafted, thus giving more parents an opportunity to be concerned about how the Armed Services are used.
Unless, or until, we reinstate the draft for ALL eligible young men AND women…wars are always in danger of being “and old man’s war, fought with someone else’s offspring” – which fits the Iraq war to a T.
getalife
June 26th, 2009
11:56 am
“Also, were the shoe on the other foot and it was Al Gore who’d raped the country and not ‘w’ (not that Al would invented the mythical ‘war on terror’ or let the drug companies write health car policy, gas compnaies white the energy policy, etc etc), the GOP would be holding hearings right now…or there would have already been a successful impeachment.”
Of course and they stick together.
TW
June 26th, 2009
11:58 am
Peadawg – no, you can’t say all Christians are that way. What you can say, however, is that Christians do a real crappy job of speaking on behalf of their faith when it is hung on the hook by the likes of the Catholic pedophiles, Rudolph, hitler, ‘w’, etc.
Example – Rick Warren could have/should have been more than a cheerleader when droves of Iraqi civilians, thousands of US soldiers were killed in Iraq because it was what the ‘awmighty’ wanted.
Paul
June 26th, 2009
12:01 pm
Truth out
No, the one who listened was AmVet. He also encouraged others to take the half hour to listen to it. I believe he had as much luck as I did -
DebbieDoRight
June 26th, 2009
12:01 pm
Paul: I want’em to be a bit more like Wonder Woman or Batwoman or even Xena, Warrior Princess
LOL!!! Very funny!! I LOVE Xena the most!! She drank, cursed, got into fights, AND enjoyed beating up men every now and then…………..Just saying
TnGelding
June 26th, 2009
12:02 pm
USinUK
June 26th, 2009
11:03 am
http://www.bowlingforcolumbine.com/library/wonderful/afghanistan.php
(Sorry I couldn’t find a better reference. It’s out there, somewhere.)
GayGrayGeek
June 26th, 2009
12:02 pm
@@ @ 11:55 – If you want to discuss The Topic Du Jour, then discuss The Topic Du Jour and quit trying to change the subject. You know, that very thing you’ve spent a great deal of this morning whining that others are doing…
TW
June 26th, 2009
12:02 pm
getalife – yes, there are advantages of being the party of sheep.
Just makes for crappy democracy.
Joey
June 26th, 2009
12:04 pm
To be brief, the situation is exactly opposite of what Jay has written. The US is dumping Iraq and it is a mistake for which we and the Iraqi citizens will pay dearly.
Paul
June 26th, 2009
12:06 pm
DoggoneGA
Basic tenets of freedom – think back to a couple centuries ago, to the immigrants from what is now Germany, who fled to avoid mandatory military service. They saw America as a country of freedom where citizens couldn’t be forced into service to the state.
More adventurism
the more troops you have, the more places you can be… remember SecState Albright to, I think Gen Powell “what good is having this big military if you can’t use it?” Note: that was the civilian to the military guy.
There are always exceptions for drafts and lotteries. Always.
Out for a while – lunch with my wife -
TnGelding
June 26th, 2009
12:07 pm
TW
June 26th, 2009
11:04 am
Yeah, it was bribery, pure and simple, and bound to have unintended consequences. And I said so at the time. I understand Petraeus started it without getting approval from Bush.
USinUK
June 26th, 2009
12:08 pm
TnG – VERY interesting read – thanks for finding that for me!
getalife
June 26th, 2009
12:09 pm
TW,
Yes, the House is debating the climate bill. The gop had over 200 amendments but Pelosi allowed 1.
The gop are saying this is not democracy.
The gop did the same thing the last 8 years but it is fun watching them whine like children using the same speeches.
Paul
June 26th, 2009
12:10 pm
DDR
Yeah, Xenia was my kind of woman.
Having her on Battlestar Galactica was icing on the cake –
Later!
The Truth is Way Out There
June 26th, 2009
12:10 pm
I think because we put so much our hopes and dreams in a politicians hands. When we elect them we expect them to be a cross between superman /batman/ conan the barbarian and the incredible hulk. We want to get our agendas heard and our projects done and we want our politicians to push those through anyway they can.
I’d settle for honest people doing an honest day’s work. These people did volunteer for the chance to serve we the people or at least that is what they would have us believe.
TnGelding
June 26th, 2009
12:14 pm
Paul
June 26th, 2009
11:04 am
It was given a whole 26 days to respond.
http://www.dawn.com/2004/10/23/int2.htm
Normal
June 26th, 2009
12:15 pm
USinUK: The draft was in full force during Korea and ‘Nam, I should know, but the apathy was still apparent. Case in point, At Hartsfield, I got in a taxi to go home and happened to mention I just got back from ‘Nam. He looked old enough for WWII, but he just looked in the mirror and said “so what?”
USinUK
June 26th, 2009
12:15 pm
@@ –
“Oh really?”
yes. really.
“Oft is the time when I come in here to observe your online discussions on food & wine (sorry Paul), gay relationships (sorry josef) and selections in literature (sorry again, josef). Granted, there’s only so much can be said on the topic-at-hand but good grief!!!! Can’t you guys hold off until Friday’s downtime? If not then I’ll simply interject with something I consider noteworthy.”
darlin’, it’s a BLOG. it’s an open forum for DISCUSSION. get your knickers out of a twist and either deal with it or go do something else with your time.
“There’s something to be said for The Pottery Barn Rule.”
fwiw, I agree with you, there is something to be said for the Pottery Barn Rule. HOWEVER, when the Iraqi gov’t says they want us to leave, that’s the signal that, whoa! hey!! is that the time??? boy-howdy, we have to get up in the morning … early meeting and all … we really need to be going … thanks for a lovely time – let’s do it again REAL soon …
“BTW, I didn’t just barge in with a post on drug addiction. A discussion on Norway’s socialization preceded. I simply joined in.”
funny. I don’t remember Jay saying anything about Norway. you know what they say about finger pointing, don’t you … 4 pointing back at you and all …
Normal
June 26th, 2009
12:15 pm
NEW POST UPSTAIRS!!!
TnGelding
June 26th, 2009
12:16 pm
getalife
June 26th, 2009
11:06 am
In Clinton’s directive on regime change in Iraq he specifically ruled out using U. S. ground troops to assist.