On this one, the NRA is correct

I’ve never been a fan of the National Rifle Association. To my mind, the NRA has been one of the more dishonest, manipulative and even dangerous lobbying groups in the country.

But on the matter of the government’s “terrorist watch list,” I’m with the NRA all the way.

According to the New York Times, the Government Accountability Office will release a study this week reporting that “people on the government’s terrorist watch list tried to buy guns nearly 1,000 times in the last five years, and federal authorities cleared the purchases 9 times out of 10 because they had no legal way to stop them.”

At first glance, that seems an egregious oversight. Common sense says that suspected terrorists should not be allowed to buy firearms. As the Times reports, one person on the watch list “was able to buy more than 50 pounds of explosives,” which seems shocking. Sen. Frank Lautenberg, a Democrat from New Jersey, plans to introduce legislation giving the federal government the power to block such sales.

The NRA of course opposes the bill, and I think for good reason.

The problem is the size of the “watch list” and the poorly defined standards for putting and keeping someone in that category. Although the list is secret, the Justice Department has acknowledged that it has grown to more than a million names representing around 400,000 individuals. The list — compiled and operated by the FBI — includes names recommended by a variety of federal, state, local, and international agencies.

In a report released in May, the Justice Department inspector general found that more than a third of the almost 69,000 names added to the list just by the FBI should not have been included. (Other agencies are probably even less careful about nominating people to the list.) The FBI included names involved in cases that had been closed, cases had nothing to do with terrorism and individuals who were supposed to have been removed from the list but were not.

“In one instance, we identified a former subject who remained watchlisted for
nearly 5 years after the case had been closed,” the inspector general found.

That’s in stark contrast to claims on the website of the FBI’s Terrorist Screening Center that “only individuals who are known or appropriately suspected to be or have been engaged in conduct constituting, in preparation for, in aid of, or related to terrorism are included in the TSDB.”

Given the sloppiness of record-keeping and the FBI’s lax approach to limiting the list to those realistically suspected of terrorist involvement, it would be unfair to use the watch list to deny people their civil liberties. And in this country, according to the courts and current judicial interpretation, the right to buy a gun is a civil liberty.

187 comments Add your comment

I Report :-) You Whine :-(

June 22nd, 2009
1:02 pm

Obozo is letting them get nukes, who needs firearms?

duh

Gawingnut

June 22nd, 2009
1:02 pm

To my mind, the NRA has been one of the more dishonest, manipulative and even dangerous lobbying groups in the country.

Really, Jay? Why is the NRA “dangerous,” Jay? Because they read the 2nd Amendment ver batim, instead of reading something into the Amendment that isn’t there?

That sort of logic typically scares most liberals. Your response is classic.

DB, Gwinnettian

June 22nd, 2009
1:06 pm

In general bang-for-buck principle, I see your point. Basically if the watch list is Teh Suxxor anyway, what’s automatically barring gun purchases really going to do to protect us, save for launching a bunch of new lawsuits?

Having said that:

And in this country, according to the courts and current judicial interpretation, the right to buy a gun is a civil liberty.

I don’t think many argue that a citizen has an unfettered right to purchase such security blankies, merely that cruel and unusual barriers to procuring such things not be erected.

RealityKing

June 22nd, 2009
1:07 pm

50 pounds of explosives.., or what country folks call fertilizer for the corn.

DoggoneGA

June 22nd, 2009
1:26 pm

“or what country folks call fertilizer for the corn”

And fuel for the combine. Gotta have both, you know.

Goldie

June 22nd, 2009
1:35 pm

I blame both the NRA and Congress for letting the 2nd Amendment argument go this far… this country is insane when it comes to weapons! Doesn’t someone who wants to buy 50 pounds of explosives need to have some kind of license for that? And how about the proliferation of “cop killer” bullets still being sold today? And what’s to stop the gun-loonies from claiming they need to buy rocket-launchers because of their “civil rights” to own weapons?

Absolute insanity! I don’t think our Founding Fathers could foresee how the wording of the 2nd Amendment would be used to justify the insanity we have today in America.

Normal

June 22nd, 2009
1:37 pm

Gawingnut

June 22nd, 2009
1:02 pm

Really, Jay? Why is the NRA “dangerous,” Jay? Because they read the 2nd Amendment ver batim, instead of reading something into the Amendment that isn’t there?
———————–
Maybe you can explain it to me. If the NRA is a sport and competitive
shooting organization, why do they support the ownership of assult weapons that have nothing to do with either? My grandfather alway said that all you ever needed was a good 12ga pump, a revolver and a lever action rifle, making sure that the pistol and rifle chambered the same ammo, for simplicities sake. So I ask again, why assault weapons?

Turd Ferguson

June 22nd, 2009
1:39 pm

Just another example of excessive govt “oversight” gone awry and unchecked due to stupidity and predjudice. Every US citizen should own as many guns as possible and be prepared to use them.

DoggoneGA

June 22nd, 2009
1:41 pm

“Doesn’t someone who wants to buy 50 pounds of explosives need to have some kind of license for that?”

Maybe not. It depends on what kind of “explosive” they’re talking about. Timothy McVeigh blew up that building with a mixture of fertilizer and diesel fuel…both of which are bought in bulk by farmers.

I Report :-) You Whine :-(

June 22nd, 2009
1:42 pm

The clerical Guardian Council, the top election body, acknowledged that the number of ballots cast in 50 districts surpassed the number of eligible voters in those areas, the state-run Islamic Republic News Agency reported today.

Hmmmmm, so did Detroit.

Allah Akbar!

@@

June 22nd, 2009
1:46 pm

Given the sloppiness of record-keeping

Isn’t that like a prerequisite to qualify for government work, jay?

I mean…..any excuse that works….right?

DoggoneGA

June 22nd, 2009
1:47 pm

“Every US citizen should own as many guns as possible and be prepared to use them”

There’s actually a pretty persuasive argument to be made for that. After all, if you were a criminal and you KNEW for an absolute FACT that every person you saw was packing a gun…mightent you think more than twice before pulling YOUR gun on one of them?

After all, that’s how we kept the USSR in check all those years. It’s called MAD – Mutually Assured Destruction

jewcowboy

June 22nd, 2009
1:49 pm

“government’s “terrorist watch list”

This lovely piece of garbage is the bane of my existence.

Evidently, my information was creating false positives in the system that almost cost me my job. My job changed in 2007 and I was required to travel. Every time, I had to fly, I couldn’t use internet check-in or the kiosks, and had to stand in line for check-in even though I had only a carryon and laptop. After having to wait for a supervisor (which usually took between 20 – 45 minutes) to clear me by me showing a passport (for domestic flight) and driver’s license, I would have to undergo additional security checks that took about 30 additional minutes, including them making me turn my laptop on EVERY time, and going through my luggage. I could usually count on about 1.5 hours of wasted time.

After missing many flights, and being denied boarding once in Germany for a U.S. flight for 24 hours and having to get the U.S. Consulate involved, my boss wanted to move me to another position where I wouldn’t have to travel, which also meant less pay.

I eventually reconciled my name with the TRIPs process the DHS has, which reduced the number of hassles, but I still am not allowed to use CLEAR lanes (the will not approve anyone that has ever been denied boarding due to a security issue, even if false), and every so often my on-line check in is denied. I now carry around a letter from DHS along with my original birth certificate when I fly, along with my passport and DL.

DHS would never tell me why my name created false positives and I still have to live with the government’s incompetence on the matter.

booger

June 22nd, 2009
1:53 pm

This is the same govt. that we want running auto cos., banks, and now health care. Gonna be fun to watch.

Paul

June 22nd, 2009
1:55 pm

I’m not sure on this one, as denial for buying a gun or explosives isn’t an undue burden. Heck, I bounced on and off the watch list for years – all it meant was I had to leave earlier for the airport. When I challenged it (Congress gave Homeland an ultimatum to fix the database and Homeland said it was fixed) I received a letter that said ‘we’ve taken appropriate action.’ Next flight – okay. Flight after, back on.

Just another problem Democrats were gonna fix….. ‘course, the Democratic solution wasn’t to fix the root cause but to block sales…

As far as the NRA being right… hey, wait long enough, they gotta be right sometime!

Hi Goldie! How ya’ been?

Gawingnut

June 22nd, 2009
1:56 pm

If I “assualt” you with a Louisville Slugger baseball bat, are you going to advocate the regulation of all bats?

Any weapon is an “assualt” weapon if you assualt someone with it. This is 4th grade, Barbara Boxer stuff.

Scooter

June 22nd, 2009
1:56 pm

Normal@ 1:37 pm

Me and most of my friends own assault rifles.We have lots of fun shooting them and competeing with each other.Just saying…

Paul

June 22nd, 2009
1:57 pm

Report/Whine

[[The clerical Guardian Council, the top election body, acknowledged that the number of ballots cast in 50 districts surpassed the number of eligible voters in those areas, the state-run Islamic Republic News Agency reported today.]]

ACORN registered Iranian voters?!!?

DoggoneGA

June 22nd, 2009
1:58 pm

“This is the same govt. that we want running auto cos., banks, and now health care.”

It’s also the same government that runs out Army, Navy, Air Force and Coast Guard. To say nothing of the secret service, air traffic controllers and the border patrol.

DoggoneGA

June 22nd, 2009
2:01 pm

“ACORN registered Iranian voters?!!?”

You don’t really seem to know much about the truth of the ACORN “incident”…do you?

Paul

June 22nd, 2009
2:02 pm

DoggoneGA

And look how much they spend doing it….

Paul

June 22nd, 2009
2:04 pm

DoggoneGA

To which of the federal indictments with dozens and dozens of counts are you referring?

Paul

June 22nd, 2009
2:06 pm

“Police: Glendale Man Sang Eminem While Stabbing Family”

Eminem incited Mr. Miller to stab his family! His repeated, violent utterances make Eminem responsible! Rap music incites violence and death!

Oh, wait… that only works with abortion doctors. Sorry.

DoggoneGA

June 22nd, 2009
2:07 pm

“To which of the federal indictments with dozens and dozens of counts are you referring?”

The ones where ACORN turned in the perpetrators of the fraud and provided the evidence needed to prove that fraud occurred. But don’t let the truth EVER get in the way of a good talking point, ya know. They’ll drum you RIGHT out of the GOP if you ever do.

jt

June 22nd, 2009
2:08 pm

Gawingnut- You asked

Why is the NRA “dangerous,” Jay?

While Jay would probably give a different reason, I beleive that the NRA has been in bed the Federal Goverment one too many times. The product of this un-holy union has been bad legislation which ultimantly strengthens a national register and disproportionally incarcerates alot of inner city youths. You can learn more at this increasingly poplar alternative for second admendment rights.

http://gunowners.org/

jewcowboy

June 22nd, 2009
2:09 pm

I will have to say, ever since the airlines were allowedby DHS to maintain their own verification system, Delta/SkyTeam and AirTran specifically for me, I’ve not had one problem. I just had to supply my passport info with my frequent flyer info and done. No more problems.

Wes

June 22nd, 2009
2:10 pm

Jay,

I agree with you wholeheartedly that the FBI is probably not operating with either the restraint or the appropriate judgment in this instance.

Would you mind telling us which government agencies you think are models of effectiveness? After that let us know why we should cede so much authority to an unresponsive, faceless bureaucracy as opposed to trying to keeping government closer to home?

(Yes, I know they aren’t much better here, but at least they have to lie to my face as opposed to a TV camera.)

Turd Ferguson

June 22nd, 2009
2:10 pm

Never take a knife to a gun fight.

booger

June 22nd, 2009
2:11 pm

Doggone,

We have people running armed services ect. who know what they are doing. Our auto cos. are being run by a task force who have no experience in business let alone auto cos. How many doctors or nureses on Obamas healthcars reform team?

I know many believe being a community activist prepares one for anything, but just like the Holiday Inn Express comercial, its an illusion.

Normal

June 22nd, 2009
2:12 pm

Gawingnut

June 22nd, 2009
1:56 pm
If I “assualt” you with a Louisville Slugger baseball bat, are you going to advocate the regulation of all bats?

Any weapon is an “assualt” weapon if you assualt someone with it. This is 4th grade, Barbara Boxer stuff.
———————
You say this because you can’t answer my real question…Just sayin’
——————
Scooter

June 22nd, 2009
1:56 pm
Normal@ 1:37 pm

Me and most of my friends own assault rifles.We have lots of fun shooting them and competeing with each other.Just saying…
—————
You could have just as much fun with the weapons I suggested, but I can
see your point if you’re afraid you might run into a Spec Ops Deer…Just supposin’

Paul

June 22nd, 2009
2:12 pm

DoggoneGA

Y’know, if an organization had that many problems, that many people doing illegal stuff, time after time after time, most of them doing the same few illegal things over and over,yet their only excuse was “we didn’t know what they were doing” most people would think the organization had a bit of a problem…

Bosch

June 22nd, 2009
2:13 pm

Paul,

You were on the terrorist watch list? Wow, I’m so impressed! I’m jealous.

Peadawg

June 22nd, 2009
2:14 pm

Normal

Gawingnut

June 22nd, 2009
1:56 pm
If I “assualt” you with a Louisville Slugger baseball bat, are you going to advocate the regulation of all bats?

Any weapon is an “assualt” weapon if you assualt someone with it. This is 4th grade, Barbara Boxer stuff.
———————
You say this because you can’t answer my real question…Just sayin’

It looks to me like you say that b/c you couldn’t answer his real question…just sayin’

jt

June 22nd, 2009
2:15 pm

JewCowBoy-

DHS would never tell me why my name created false positives and I still have to live with the government’s incompetence on the matter.

What a nightmare. I was going to ask on this blog- How can you check to see if your name is on this list? I guess I will check out the TRIPPS process.
But wouldn’t ASKING to check trigger a investigation thus adding your name to the list.?
I am concerned because I have a comman name and weird things happened a couple of years ago when I purchased “Anarchist cookbook” from Amazon.Com.?

Normal

June 22nd, 2009
2:15 pm

Wes, you said,

Would you mind telling us which government agencies you think are models of effectiveness?

The IRS???

Paul

June 22nd, 2009
2:18 pm

Bosch

Actually, it was kinda fun. Go to check in, you know something’s up ’cause you can’t check in online, hand the agent your reservation form, watch their eyes freeze and then ask “am I on the watch list again?!!?” People move away…. LOL!

Normal

June 22nd, 2009
2:19 pm

Peadawg

June 22nd, 2009
2:14 pm
It looks to me like you say that b/c you couldn’t answer his real question…just sayin’
—————
You can play around with words all you want but we all know what an assault weapon, or assault rifle is… A weapon designed for war, not sport. Get real…Just sayin’.

DoggoneGA

June 22nd, 2009
2:19 pm

“We have people running armed services ect. who know what they are doing.”

And how did they get to know what they are doing? By doing it and by being forced to do it well. It’s a model that can, and should be, applied to ALL government services. It isn’t being “government controlled” that makes agencies bad…it’s having people who are not forced to do their jobs well that makes them bad. So follow the armed services model…and get people in there who CAN do a good job. After all, isn’t that the way businesses do it?

” Our auto cos. are being run by a task force who have no experience in business let alone auto cos.”

Actually, they are not being “run” by the government. At the moment anyway, they government is in the same position as any other stock holder. They are not involved in the day-to-day operations of the businesses. Not paying much attention, are you?

” How many doctors or nureses on Obamas healthcars reform team?”

Better question: how many average consumers of healthcare services are on his team? I don’t, personally, know the answer to either question…do you?

Paul

June 22nd, 2009
2:20 pm

jt

They probably don’t know. First time it happened, I went straight to a TSA supervisor. His response? “I’m on the watch list – some guy on Georgia’s death row with the same last name.” I said “but if he’s locked up, on death row…”

Sleep tight. These people know what they’re doing.

Bosch

June 22nd, 2009
2:20 pm

Paul,

You’re a bad ass!!! That’s awesome.

DB, Gwinnettian

June 22nd, 2009
2:20 pm

Paul, so Dr. Tiller’s murder is now tucked safely away in the past that you can joke about it?

As for your ongoing defense of Bill O’Reilly, I wanted to remind some here of what the man has actually said:

O‘REILLY: In the state of Kansas, there is a doctor, George Tiller, who will execute babies for $5,000.

O‘REILLY: Tiller has killed thousands—thousands of late term fetuses without explanation. No question Dr. Tiller has blood on his hands.

Tiller the baby killer out in Kansas, acquitted. Acquitted today of murdering babies. There‘s got to be a special place in hell for this guy.

This guy will kill your baby for 5,000 dollars, any reason. Any reason.

(I figure you’re a lost cause, on this guy at least, but some others might have forgotten.)

DoggoneGA

June 22nd, 2009
2:21 pm

“Y’know, if an organization had that many problems, that many people doing illegal stuff, time after time after time, most of them doing the same few illegal things over and over,yet their only excuse was “we didn’t know what they were doing” most people would think the organization had a bit of a problem”

Ya know…if you’d bother to look into the allegations, and what ACORN is REQUIRE TO DO by law…and how they handled the issue, you might actually learn something. Of course, if you DO, you’ll know the truth…which will kill your talking point. And you’ll be out on your ear in no time. Never let the truth get in the way of a good talking point. The first commandment of hard-core GOP talking heads. You’d fit right in.

getalife

June 22nd, 2009
2:22 pm

The American taliban are already armed and killing.

A list will not stop them.

Prison will.

Paul

June 22nd, 2009
2:22 pm

I used to use the military model as a question to those who were reluctant for gov’t intervention in health care.

But reading the posts, it occurs we spend more on the military than most countries put together.

I may have to rethink that comeback -

Bosch

June 22nd, 2009
2:22 pm

Paul,

Um, so prisoners on death row are on the terrorist watch list? Isn’t that kind of silly? I mean, yeah, they could potentially be terrorists, but not if they are in prison. So, as long as they are accouted for and haven’t escaped, well……..oh, I don’t know, it seems like that’s a few names we could cut.

Wes

June 22nd, 2009
2:25 pm

Normal,

I know what you mean, but even they don’t know how to file a 1040. It boggles my mind that our government is unwilling to create a fairly simple tax code that doesn’t require an army of accountants to decipher.

RealityKing

June 22nd, 2009
2:30 pm

Stop reading right there…>>>According to the New York Times

jt

June 22nd, 2009
2:33 pm

Paul

June 22nd, 2009
2:20 pm
jt

They probably don’t know. First time it happened, I went straight to a TSA supervisor. His response? “I’m on the watch list – some guy on Georgia’s death row with the same last name.” I said “but if he’s locked up, on death row…”

But there is no way to know before hand? I have a flight looming over my head in November. I don’t want to deal with wife yelling at me about “Anarchist cookbook”. In public. And no smoking.

Paul

June 22nd, 2009
2:34 pm

Bosch 2:22

And there are people who think the Feds know ‘everything’…

Sometimes the level of incompetence is truly scary. Some stuff they do pretty well… give’em enough manpower and dollars, that is… but other stuff…

Paul

June 22nd, 2009
2:36 pm

jt

If you can check in online, a day before the flight, you’re probably good to go.

Anarchist Cookbook? Just tell the TSA person ‘anarchist’ (say it with the accent on the last syllable, pronounce it ‘keest’) is a French guy on FoodTV.

Normal

June 22nd, 2009
2:39 pm

WES, You 2:25- When they do that is when I’ll start believing in the second coming…Just sayin’.

Normal

June 22nd, 2009
2:40 pm

Paul,

Anarchist Cookbook? Just tell the TSA person ‘anarchist’ (say it with the accent on the last syllable, pronounce it ‘keest’) is a French guy on FoodTV.
——————-
I hate to say this, but that would probably work…

josef nix

June 22nd, 2009
2:40 pm

In reference to the Second Amendment no one is paying attention to time, place and circumstance for its inclusion. The revolutionaries had just won their freedom in armed struggle precisely because they had on hand their own arms with which to confront those sent to put down their rebellion. Understanding this and understanding that the temptation of the new government to repression of the people would be a factor, the framers of the new government found it mete to see to it that the population was as well armed as the state. This philosophical was enforced by the more pragmatic realization that the new nation might well be invaded by a foreign power bent on its destruction. The ability to meet such invaders on a moment’s notice was a matter of national security. This was born out in the War of 1812 with the Battle of New Orleans when the well-armed citizenry repelled the British.

I am not arguing for or against the Second Amendment in this day and age since the logic behind it would also guarantee the citizenry’s right to atomic weaponry, but on the other hand…

As for doing something about the American penchant for firearms as a moderator of human behavior, that’s always been part and parcel of out national psyche. If we are really serious about doing something about it, follow the money and take on the manufacturers. We did it with tobacco…

Normal

June 22nd, 2009
2:43 pm

Josef, well said!

Scooter

June 22nd, 2009
2:43 pm

Normal @ 2:12 pm

I have no intention of shooting a spec ops deer or a person for that matter. I shoot the other guns you mentioned for fun also!

williebkind

June 22nd, 2009
2:44 pm

Why do so many progressive liberals want to deny me the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of a perfect shot group?

How many NRA members break the law using a firearm? I really do not know any. I tell you what–just think of shooting as sex and you progressive liberals will love it.

Normal

June 22nd, 2009
2:45 pm

Scooter, Then I believe you, and I’ll tell you this: To me, there is nothing quite as satisfying as a three shot group that a quarter will cover from 100 yards. Know what I mean?

Paul

June 22nd, 2009
2:46 pm

josef nix

I like the ‘well regulated militia’ part. Especially gun owners who say that by exercising their Constitutional right to keep and bear arms, they are part of the ‘militia.’

If that’s the case, federalize ‘em and send’em all to Afghanistan.

jewcowboy

June 22nd, 2009
2:47 pm

jt,

Here is the link to TRIPs:
http://www.dhs.gov/xtrvlsec/programs/gc_1169676919316.shtm

Although, I think it’s more of “make you feel like something is being done rather than something actually being done” kinda of thing.

If you fly quite a bit you might try Clear lanes, even though they ulitmately rejected my application, if they don’t it will help you breeze through security (not check in though)

http://www.flyclear.com/

I don’t think by inquiring, you’ll be put on the list. If you are being hassled, it might help clear things up. Or not. My suggestion is to enroll in the frequent flyer program of whatever airline you are flying, and provide them with the additional information, such as putting your passport in your profile. This solved almost all of my false positive issues.

josef nix

June 22nd, 2009
2:48 pm

NORMAL–”…jus’ sayin’,,,: :-)

Paul

June 22nd, 2009
2:49 pm

williebkind

[[I tell you what–just think of shooting as sex and you progressive liberals will love it.]]

Blanks… single shot… semi auto over in seconds…

you sure you wanna go there?

williebkind

June 22nd, 2009
2:50 pm

josef nix: Well, you sure showed them tobacco companies….now all the poor people are trading food for smokes. Next you will say my chewing tobacco makes you have cancer or some psyche problems.

I say go after lipstick and there wont be so many state cared-for children.

Bosch

June 22nd, 2009
2:51 pm

Paul,

I’m so not cool like you are being on the terrorist watch list. I get pulled out of line because I never have my shampoo in a Ziploc bag and I swear I could walk through a metal detector naked and it would go off.

jewcowboy

June 22nd, 2009
2:52 pm

jt,

Paul’s right, if you can check in online, you will not have any problem. If you get “On line check in cannot be completed at this time. Please check with an airline respresentative upon checking in at the airport” you’re screwed.

clyde

June 22nd, 2009
2:54 pm

I have found the NRA to be a refreshingly honest organization all the years that I’ve been alive.Much more honest than my government.Perhaps Jay should become a member and find out what the NRA’S really all about.

A poignant sign carried by a woman protester in Tehran on Saturday read.THEY’LL RUE THE DAY WE GET ARMS.

There is no NRA in Iran, Jay,but I’ll bet there is a terrorist watch list,and I’ll bet you and I would think these terrorists to be citizens like ourselves.

jewcowboy

June 22nd, 2009
2:54 pm

Paul,

“Actually, it was kinda fun”

Not so much fun when you are denied from flying and stuck in a foreign country with a client meeting the next day.

Paul

June 22nd, 2009
2:55 pm

Bosch

[[I could walk through a metal detector naked and it would go off.]]

Metallic tattoo ink?

Gawingnut

June 22nd, 2009
2:55 pm

“The product of this un-holy union has been bad legislation which ultimantly strengthens a national register and disproportionally incarcerates alot of inner city youths.”

Please explain to me why 13% of the general populuation represents 70% of the prison population. Guns made ‘em do it, right? That cold piece of steel just jumped up and said shoot that guy!!!

Dusty

June 22nd, 2009
2:57 pm

Dear Normal,

I don’t know a thing about guns but don’t police departments have assault weapons? You could say they make “war” on crime. There was some news last night that was unsettling to say the least.

The head of the crime fighters in Mexico is putting up a fierce fight against the drug cartels there. He mentioned on TV that the cartels were better armed than the police and government fighters. There was a picture of a captured cartel’s huge supply of every kind of assault weapon made. He said they all came from the USA.

Seems the cartels make their million selling drugs to USA. Then they buy American guns and munitions to kill the police and the military fighting them.

Another thing mentioned was the cartels taking on terrorist type “punishments”. Beheading for one thing. There was a picture of ten Mexian policemen hanging in air with their heads in sacks at their feet.

There is something really wrong with American assault weapons being sold to drug cartels. How is that happening?

We may be getting bothered here by airport regulations but look what the Mexicans are facing. I wonder if we worry about the inconveniences and forget why we have them.

Normal

June 22nd, 2009
2:57 pm

Bosch,

I swear I could walk through a metal detector naked and it would go off.
—————–
Happens to me every time, I have more metal in me than the tin man…Just beepin…

josef nix

June 22nd, 2009
2:59 pm

PAUL–there has been the argument put forth, and it is one I would tend to agree with, that it is not the weaponry that calls for regulation, but the registration of all owners as potential members of the militia to be called out in time of crisis. I would have little problem with registering myself within this process, but asking me to register as a firearm owner simply for the state to have a record of what I own leaves me open to “round up.”

For some of the younger people posting, we might remember that the state has a pretty sorry record of collecting data on unwary citizens. Back when the Freedom of Information Act started a flurry of folks wanting to know what “the government” had on them, I was asked by some of my radical peers what my files held. I told them I hadn’t bothered to check. When they asked why not, I told ‘em that I’d hate to find out I wasn’t “special” enough to have one, and if I didn’t a request would certainly ensure that I got one,…

Scooter

June 22nd, 2009
3:02 pm

Normal @ 2:45 pm,

No I don’t know what you mean because I have never been able to shoot that good. Only got about 30 min. training in the USAF!

Paul

June 22nd, 2009
3:05 pm

jewcowboy

‘Fun’ was saying what I did and watching the women off to the side scatter. What you described is the reality of government ineptitude.

Gawingnut

Well, the argument’s been made… charge and incarcerate white, young to middle aged males for their drug of choice, same as we do for African American males, and watch what happens to the prison population.

josef nix

I wasn’t making the point of registration for registration’s sake – just that if people want to use the ‘militia’ argument to justify private gun ownership, well, there ought to be some responsibilities that go along with that right of being in a militia.

Bosch

June 22nd, 2009
3:05 pm

Paul and Normal,

I think I have metal in my blood (among other things, ha ha). I have weird electromagnetic blood or something. I’ve mentioned this before, I can’t wear a watch because it will stop pretty much within an hour, and I think that’s where my fear of technology comes from- electronics and me don’t mix well.

Normal

June 22nd, 2009
3:06 pm

Dusty, What you say is too true and If the assault rifles weren’t available the Police wouldn’t need them and the cartels couldn’t get them. But the NRA has never shown any support over the ban of weapons whose only purpose was to be used in war. That was the main reason I quit the NRA. I am a supporter of the right to bear arms, but a good shot gun will defend your home and put meat on the table if necessary.

Normal

June 22nd, 2009
3:07 pm

Bosch, Never, ever sit in the pilots seat!

Paul

June 22nd, 2009
3:09 pm

Normal

[[a good shot gun will defend your home and put meat on the table]]

Never thought I’d write this:

ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

Normal

June 22nd, 2009
3:10 pm

Scooter, there is definitely something zen like in target shooting. The controled breathing, the slowing down of the heart, the trigger pull between heart beats…It really is a stress reliever…Just sayin’

josef nix

June 22nd, 2009
3:10 pm

JAY–Okay, you tell me…you do realize that this moderation is not only frustrating timely response, it’s really somewhat silly

jewcowboy

June 22nd, 2009
3:11 pm

Paul,

“‘Fun’ was saying what I did and watching the women off to the side scatter. What you described is the reality of government ineptitude.”

That would be! If it ever happens again, I might have to pull that. ;) At least make an annoying situation entertaining.

josef nix

June 22nd, 2009
3:13 pm

PAUL-@3:05–I agree with you.

jokerman

June 22nd, 2009
3:13 pm

I believe most people who have to have their assortment of assault rifles etal, probably never served in the military and are now acting out their fantisies of what a BIG man they are. Like Wayne Lapierre and all of the other nut jobs that belong to the NRA…Even George HW Bush turned in his membership card! Me I’ve got one gun a Taurus PT92, 9mm handgun. I’m not against gun control. Just against the insanity of some gun owners….How much firepower does one need?

Pennsylvanian

June 22nd, 2009
3:17 pm

jokerman – no disagreement here. Fully automatic weapons and sawed off shotguns have been illegal for many years. The problem is the fringe kook element that wants to ban all handguns, and all label any rifle that has a detachable magazine as an ‘assault rifle’.

Dusty

June 22nd, 2009
3:18 pm

Normal,

Too many “ifs” in your answer. I think crime came before assault weapons, guns that is. Drugs came early also.

Some people buy bigger cars to protect themselves from crash crazy drivers. Maybe they buy bigger guns for protection from crazier criminals.

booger

June 22nd, 2009
3:19 pm

Doggone,

The govt. is not running the auto cos….

When the US president, forces the CEO out. When Barney Frank steps in to stop the planned shutdown of a Mass. distribution center, When the Presidents press secretary states that they will not be involved day to day, but if the Pres. doesn’t like the way things are going he’ll replace the management team…….They’re running the company.

As for health care, the plan is being wriiten by congress. Not a lot of Doctors there although there are a few. Obamas core group consist of sen. Dodd, a financial guy, and Obama’s his attorney general. As for users of the health system, I’m not aware of any focus groups or the like, but as I said before, as a former community activist, he knows whats best for these people.

So I guess you’re right, nothing to worry about.

josef nix

June 22nd, 2009
3:21 pm

jokerman–”how much firepower does one need?”

Really not that much. I keep a baseball bat by the front door and have only had to use it twice. Back when I was younger and found it necessary to be prepared for physical assault when coming through Midtown, I carried a switchblade. Only had to use it once, and even then the “click” itself would probably have done the trick, but the thug was a slow mover and I did know how to use it…

Rifleman

June 22nd, 2009
3:23 pm

I been wronged or my name ain’t Chuck. Branded by a system that can’t tell good from bad.

Dusty

June 22nd, 2009
3:23 pm

Hmmm…

[a gun to keep meat on the table]…I amy have to get proficient in firearms after all. How does squirrel stew taste?

Normal

June 22nd, 2009
3:25 pm

Dusty, your 3:18- Maybe so. It’s a fact we can’t go back to a “no assault weapon time”, and I personally believe that any form of legislation against the arms would be futile, so what would you suggest?

I Report :-) You Whine :-(

June 22nd, 2009
3:27 pm

I believe most people who have to have their assortment of assault rifles etal, probably never served in the military and are now acting out their fantisies of what a BIG man they are.

Either that or we bought them for the very day that some pinko liberal like bookman or Obozo got into the White House, so that they would quadruple in value.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

And I ain’t selling the AR15A2 so don’t even ask.

bwa

jewcowboy

June 22nd, 2009
3:27 pm

Let’s try this again:
Paul,

Here is an interesting article that shows why the no fly list is a waste of time:
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200811/airport-security/2

jokerman

June 22nd, 2009
3:30 pm

josef nix @ 3:21 pm….Exactly, you make my point! btw who’s signature is on the Louisville slugger?

josef nix

June 22nd, 2009
3:30 pm

DUSTY–Squirrel stew? A little gamy for my taste. The Unmentionable claims we’ll be having a pot of it soon if the little tree rats don’t quit raiding the bird feeder… :-)

jewcowboy

June 22nd, 2009
3:32 pm

josef nix,

“Really not that much”

Just a really mean wiener dog with emotional problems will do the trick. Trust me.

Frederick Douglass

June 22nd, 2009
3:32 pm

Or maybe we bought one to shoot an innocent child that dropped a slice of water melon.

josef nix

June 22nd, 2009
3:32 pm

jokerman–one was a neighbor who was beating his wife and another a druggie who decided he was going to come on in anyway…

Cain

June 22nd, 2009
3:33 pm

I’m more than able to defend myself without the aid of an assault rifle so long as the other person doe not have one. It’s an all or nothing presupposition.

Paul

June 22nd, 2009
3:34 pm

jewcowboy

I can’t help but wonder, if we took all those TSA resources, and instead of spreading them out over all travelers, instead concentrated on those who aren’t grannies from Denmark….

josef nix

June 22nd, 2009
3:35 pm

jewcowboy–or a bad *** siamese (can’t write the rest of the word or the moderator will have a fit…) who sat on top of the fridge and if you didn’t have the proper papers to pass HER homeland secutity, she’d jump you and hang on until you left her purview of authority…

jokerman

June 22nd, 2009
3:37 pm

Josef…Kudos on the neighbor thing! Did you hit a triple or home run?