Steering the economy through a storm-tossed passage
The deficit — and the debt — are very real longterm problems, complicated by the fact that we also face a more immediate challenge in the greatest economic recession in two or three generations. The course of treatment recommended by the vast majority of mainstream economists — conservative and liberal — is large amounts of government spending to offset the collapse of private spending.
But that of course worsens the longterm debt problems. Yesterday, President Obama tried to address that issue by pushing a return of “pay-go” rules in Congress. In other words, new programs and new tax cuts would have to be paid for by new revenues or by spending cuts elsewhere. The rules, which would apply to Obama’s ambitious effort to reform health care, were abandoned by congressional Republicans in 2002.
The move is necessary but not sufficient, as even Obama
probably understands. It will help, but only a little bit. Once we work our way out of this historic recession and find something like economic stability, we’ll have some tough decisions to make on both the spending and revenue sides.
Some Democrats are arguing that the president’s pay-go proposal doesn’t go far enough, and not surprisingly, the Republicans are jumping on it as a campaign issue. It’s a great way for the party to try to reclaim the mantle of fiscal responsibility that it tossed away when it held all the levers of power in Washington.
“The president continues to display a frightening ability to say one thing, yet do the exact opposite,” U.S. Rep. Tom Price of Georgia told the Washington Post. “It’s frankly insulting that a president who is on a path to bankrupting our government would try to play the role of fiscal hawk.”
U.S. Sen. John Cornyn, Republican of Texas, got a bit absurd in his attacks. “This was not an inherited situation,” he told Politico. “This was a matter entirely of this administration’s and this Democratic leadership’s making. In large part, I believe, 2010 will be a referendum on their performance.”
There will come a time when the deficit will indeed be an important campaign issue, and an important governance issue as well. There will also come a time when Obama “owns” those deficit and debt numbers. But as long as unemployment numbers are as stark as those on the chart above, more immediate questions of economic recovery should and will dominate.
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306 comments Add your comment
I Rule You :-)/ You Whine :-(
June 10th, 2009
8:10 am
Again, how much did government spending deficits increase when democrats took control of Congress in 2006? Why does bookman continue to propagate this lie? Would the democrat party get angry at their little toad if he were to be responsible with the facts? Only an idiot can deny that even though Republicans did increase spending it was only after revenues increased from the Bush tax cuts.
Perhaps you have no calculator bookman? No internet connection?
I Rule You :-)/ You Whine :-(
June 10th, 2009
8:12 am
Since spending cuts are out of the question for the dhimmocrats, heaven forbid, prepare for tax increases in the maw of a looming depression, which will lead to total economic collapse.
Mission Accomplished!
Normal
June 10th, 2009
8:13 am
All we can do is watch and wait, and Sen. Cornyn may be right, but if in 2010, I still have my job and it looks like we are truly in recovery, then a lot of Republicans could be looking for work.
Normal
June 10th, 2009
8:14 am
Whiner, are you answering my questions from downstairs?
I Rule You :-)/ You Whine :-(
June 10th, 2009
8:15 am
And finally, what “tax cuts?”
Mailing a 250 dollar check to those who don’t pay taxes to begin with?
What about the huge increase in tobacco taxes, who pays those? Martians?
Look at gas and energy prices going through the roof again, a direct result of the liberal fantasy of green energy production, is this nothing more than a tax?
What do you mean, tax cuts?
Mrs. Godzilla
June 10th, 2009
8:19 am
I know the old way did not work and I’m willing to give the new way time to work.
So far so good by us….we’re getting busy again, our 401K is recovering well and we continue to be hopeful.
Redneck Convert
June 10th, 2009
8:19 am
Well, my favorite actor of all time Donald Duck turned 75 today and I feel kind of old myself. I recall as a boy reading Donald Duck comic books while the other kids were wasting their time on books with alot of words but no pictures. If it wasn’t for Donald Duck I might could of missed out on being a beer truck driver and probly would of been some poor slob in a suit and tie going to a office every day and taking crap from some other guy in a suit and tie. Sometimes you got to be thankful for the little things that happen.
Anyhow, this Obama and the librul Democrats got to stop spending and start cutting if the economy is going to get better. They can start by cutting all the welfare programs. Things like doctoring for kids and helping people heat their houses and other useless things like that. If God wanted free doctoring for people they would be born so they never get sick. Then they need to give a humongous tax cut to everybody. Especially to the people that make big money and keep the economy going.
Anyhow, this Obama needs to stop trying to butt into Free Innerprize and get guvmint out of it all. You got to run everything like a business where the only thing that matters is making money. I was reading yesterday about the ambulance driver that was taking a patient to a hospitle. Only trouble was, the ambulance driver looked at his clock and saw he was about to work overtime that he didn’t get paid for. So the driver pulled over and waited for the next driver to show up. That’s business for you. Course, the patient died before he next driver showed up, but the point is you got to take a business point of view in everything. Including guvmint.
Have a good day everybody.
Brian
June 10th, 2009
8:20 am
Jay, ever thought about renting yourself out as a manure spreader? You sure like to spread it around don’t you?
Wes
June 10th, 2009
8:24 am
Jay,
What is the actual percentage unemployed? I know that we are in difficult straights right now; however, we were pretty close to full employment when this started. I think your chart might be a little misleading as to the total percent unemployed in the ’70’s and early 80’s.
@@
June 10th, 2009
8:24 am
Watching Obama is like watching a child with ADHD. He can’t focus in an environment where the stimulus is too great.
He looked silly with his “NOW IS OUR TIME” to adopt pay-go, jay.
The uber-left pushed him with confidence that they would serve as his caretaker. The more moderate dems are probably thinking that babysitting him is beneath their pay-grade.
Talk about a Disaster in Daycare…
Grand Old Plan
June 10th, 2009
8:26 am
I know how to fix this mess. Just put me back in charge and I’ll fix everything. But, you have to put me in charge first or else you can all just wither up and blow away for all I care. I can fix all of this mess but I’m not going to help one single bit until I am in charge…again. You see, I don’t like not being in charge and just because things didn’t go so well over the last eight years while I was in charge, the majority of you get your panties in a wad and get all uppity and won’t let me be in charge any more. Well, I’ll show you. You just watch me. I have a temper and I have the will and I still have some might and I’m going to use it. I’m going to show you. Then, you’ll come crawling back to me and you will beg me to fix things and I’ll make you keep on begging and then I’ll make you pay for ever leaving me to begin with. You just watch me.
josef nix
June 10th, 2009
8:27 am
REDNECK CONVERT–Happy Birthday, Donald. Weren’t those old cartoons marvelous. I learned more from them than anything else insofar as life’s lessons are concerned. My role model was (is) Foghorn Leghorn, “Ah, say thah, the boy ain’t too bright.”
The economy? “Eva’s pretty hands reached far and they reached wide…everybody’s gonna see some good times now…”
Peronismo don’t work, right wing (GOP) or left wing (DEMS).
Cityslicker
June 10th, 2009
8:28 am
It was not business, his employer, that caused that ambulance driver to stop. It was his Union.
josef nix
June 10th, 2009
8:29 am
@@–”Talk about a Disaster in Daycare…”
I wish I’d said that!
Joey
June 10th, 2009
8:29 am
Enter your comments here
Kayaker 71
June 10th, 2009
8:30 am
Ms. G,
Your 401K would have probably done better by this time if Mr. Wonderful had not spent a dime on “stimulus” recovery plans. Ever hear of a normal economic downturn? Happens every so often when consumer confidence and consumer spending tank. Same with a housing downturn when builders build more houses than the market can absorb and demand goes down. But this time the housing downturn was aided by incompetent oversight and greed. The old way does work…. it has been sustaining this country for decades.
I Rule You :-)/ You Whine :-(
June 10th, 2009
8:33 am
As a Christian, you must believe that Heaven is the ultimate place to go, so why wouldn’t you celebrate abortion? After all in your own Bible, God says I knew you before you were born…
Life and the suffering involved with living it are an integral part of the spiritual nurturing of one’s soul in preparation for that person’s ascendancy into Heaven. Although it is true that your life is pre ordained, you have to live it to fulfill this gift. God feels the tragedy of a life cut short whether it was done in a car accident or some murderer drilling a hole in a babies head. He gave us free CHOICE in how we live our lives, a choice to choose between right and wrong, morality and immorality. And you liberals have made your choice.
Who, exactly said there is a “Right To Life”?
I leave you to your own moral conclusions on that one, Hitler.
When does life start
Are you saying that single cell protozoans are not alive?
Why do “Religious Pro Lifers” try to block birth control of all sorts when that will prevent abortions?
I have never met a Christian that has any issues with birth control pills or condoms. Yes, there are extremists out there. The issue for me and the majority is the teaching of responsible behavior to young adults, if that is all you teach, like the sicko liberals do, how to install a rubber on a cucumber, you are empowering such alternatives.
One last thing, prove to me there is really such a thing as a soul. Don’t quote scripture either, I want to read your words.
What is the point of this life? Are you really this clueless? Everything around you had to be created from something, there is absolutely no other way it could exist. This points directly to a Supreme Being, which I like to call my Lord and Savior, unless, of course, you were thinking we bursted out from the TV set?
You liberals are dense, my goodness, so damn dense.
Bud Wiser
June 10th, 2009
8:34 am
Here is my plan:
1. Take a gun, and some friends, go to your bank and take all of your account’s contents, BUT, as opposed to being just a plain old thief, I promise that one day I might pay you back….I just need the money, and I need it now.
2. I will give your money to the people I choose, you have no say in the matter.
3. The people I give your money to will not be held accountable for how much they receive or where it goes.
4. If for some ungodly reason they decide to pay me back, I will tell them whether or not I will allow them to do so.
5. If I actually DO get some money back, I think I’ll put it into a new little slush fund, to be there to bail out any future friends that need the money, not really to pay down the fantastic debt I am incurring on an hourly basis. No need to pay off my debt, I’ll just print some more worthless money, or come back and take whatever you or your friends have left.
6. Money, you think it was your money I took? Foolish libtard, it was my money to begin with, it was never yours. You are just a temporary holder, a middle man – you work, you get paid, you give it to me, I decide what is the best use of it.
That plan would be glorious if I had the power of the US government behind me to make it work.
Oh wait, Obowo stole my plan! He’s got all of your money before you do! Dammit!!
Grand Old Plan
June 10th, 2009
8:36 am
Borrow money from China and from our trust funds and call that revenue increases and then cut taxes on the wealthy and fund the resulting shortfalls using these so-called revenue increases. How do Republicans even keep a straight face when they spout such blatant lies — it must be that Reagan school of acting. What a pathetic joke. By the way, how are those red state policies working out. Got plenty of jobs? Budgets balanced while giving out tax cuts? Riiiiight.
Shawny
June 10th, 2009
8:37 am
Good topic today. Here is a much better explaination as to how outlays to income from a federal standpoint stack up going forward, from CNNMoney:
http://money.cnn.com/2009/06/05/retirement/next_crisis_americas_debt.fortune/index.htm?postversion=2009060912
It should scare your pants off. Check out the graph and look at planned spending past the current over inflated “stimulus”. It is wreckless, unnecessary, and very dangerous. One passage says,
“The bill is far too big for only the rich to pick up. There aren’t enough of them. America will have to lean on citizens far below the $250,000 income threshold: nurses, electricians, secretaries, and factory workers. Within a decade the average household that pays income tax will owe the equivalent of $155,000 in federal debt, about $90,000 more than last year. What the Obama administration isn’t telling Americans is that the only practical solution is a giant tax increase aimed squarely at the middle class.”
Nice. I think “I told you so” somehow just doesn’t have the needed impact.
TnGelding
June 10th, 2009
8:38 am
Kayaker 71
June 10th, 2009
8:30 am
Probably, snobably. But we do know what has happened don’t we? And we’ll see what happens in the future. I think you’ll be changing your tune.
USinUK
June 10th, 2009
8:39 am
“I have never met a Christian that has any issues with birth control pills or condoms”
whiner, meet the Catholic Church.
whiner, meet Randall Terry
whiner, meet the growing number of evangelicals who mistakenly portray birth control as “abortion” because it stops a blastula from implanting on the wall of the uterus.
if you don’t know of any “christians” who oppose birth control, it’s because you’re not paying attention.
Grand Old Plan
June 10th, 2009
8:39 am
Republicans are single cell protozoans. Well, that does explain a lot.
Jay
June 10th, 2009
8:40 am
Whiner writes:
“Again, how much did government spending deficits increase when democrats took control of Congress in 2006? Why does bookman continue to propagate this lie? Would the democrat party get angry at their little toad if he were to be responsible with the facts? Only an idiot can deny that even though Republicans did increase spending it was only after revenues increased from the Bush tax cuts.”
Whiner, every point you make in that paragraph is a lie. Every one. And you know it, because we have discussed it in the past.
In budget years 2007-09, for example, with Congress under Democratic control, the final budget passed by the Democrats was almost exactly the amount of money Bush had requested. And the budget deficits for 07 and 08 were considerably lower than they had been in 03 and 04.
Furthermore, while you claim that the GOP increased spending “only after revenues increased from the Bush tax cuts,” the truth is that federal revenues under Bush did not appreciably top 2000 levels until 2006. But from 2001-2006, federal spending grew from $1.8 trillion to $2.6 trillion.
If your computer and calculator produce different numbers, post them. Mine came from the Office of Management and Budget historical tables; http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals/
TnGelding
June 10th, 2009
8:40 am
The GOP might be able to make some traction on the issue, but only if they are honest about it. And so far they haven’t been.
Mrs. Godzilla
June 10th, 2009
8:40 am
Kayaker 71
Actually the economy has always worked pretty well for Mr G and I.
But being a good American, we think it has to work for everyone. If you think this is/was a normal economic downturn, I’m quite delighted that you and your type are no longer running the show.
I suggest that your grasp of the economic situation for 90% of Americans
does not extend beyond your own grubby, greedy little paws.
But have a nice day.
I Rule You :-)/ You Whine :-(
June 10th, 2009
8:41 am
Personally know, morons.
USinUK
June 10th, 2009
8:41 am
kayaker –
“Your 401K would have probably done better by this time if Mr. Wonderful had not spent a dime on “stimulus” recovery plans. Ever hear of a normal economic downturn?”
I’ve heard of a normal economic downturn. I’ve even experienced a few.
this was not one of them.
this was an economic meltdown exacerbated by the unregulated derivatives market – if we had not had the TARP program and the stimulus bill, the market would still be in the doldrums because the banking industry would still be floundering. no banks, no confidence in the marketplace. it really is that simple.
Ben
June 10th, 2009
8:42 am
Actually, Bookman, that’s the vast majority of “Keynesian” economists. Few followers of the Austrian or Chicago schools of economic thought are going to agree. What you really mean is that most Keynesian economists believe that more spending is the answer, which makes sense as government spending is the foundation of Keynes.
Of course even Keynes said that such spending should not exceed a certain percentage of GDP, a percentage Obama caused us to blast through.
There are a lot of programs out there, both good ones and bad ones, that go far beyond the bounds of what the Federal Government is supposed to be involved in. The “rich” simply cannot pay everything for everyone else, even you took the entire fortunes of everyone in the country who makes more than $400,000/year, it wouldn’t even come close to covering the bottomless pit of debt that Obama created.
According to the administration’s own estimates, our economy is now much worse off than if they hadn’t passed the stimulus and other such measures, plus now we have more debt than any entity has ever created in the history of the concept.
Even those among you with lips sewn to Obama’s ass must realize that something isn’t right here, this isn’t sustainable, and reorganizing health care isn’tm a solution to our economic woes, it’s a completely seperate issue that Obama is trying to conflate with the overall economy so he can pass his ridiculous health plan. he’s using the same fear-mongering tactics Bush was derided for, but Obama gets a pass from the same media that includes Newsweek editor Evan Thomas, who called Obama “some kind of God” a few days ago.
Also, to those who like to mention over and over again that Republicans are idiots because they get their news from entertainers like Rush Limbaugh… At least we don’t elect them like Democrats did with Al Franken. A comedian as Senator? At least Rush’s job is to be informed, Franken got paid for being a fool. And now he’s a fool in the Senate, or will be soon enough. Since his lawyers are better at whining than Norm Coleman’s. Funny how when Coleman was originally ahead, Franken wanted to count every vote, then as soon as the recount gave him a slim lead, Franken no longer wants to count every vote. But hypocrisy is a hallmark of politicians on both sides of the aisle, so in that respect he fits right in.
Grand Old Plan
June 10th, 2009
8:42 am
Bud, as soon as we re-take control we plan on re-implementing that very plan. Patience, my boy.
USinUK
June 10th, 2009
8:43 am
8:40 – go, Jay go!!!
and don’t forget – NONE of the war was included in Bush’s budget
Turd Ferguson
June 10th, 2009
8:44 am
Obama is creating a huge mess and the Congress are running loose like 5 year olds who were just handed a $50. Spend spend spend with ZERO accountability. What a sorry sorry state of affairs.
USinUK
June 10th, 2009
8:45 am
“At least we don’t elect them like Democrats did with Al Franken. A comedian as Senator?”
ahem: Sonny. Bono.
josef nix
June 10th, 2009
8:45 am
Talk about a Disaster in Daycare…
TnGelding
June 10th, 2009
8:46 am
Jay
June 10th, 2009
8:40 am
How many times do you have to beat him over the head with this argument?
And the reason the wealthy are paying a bigger percentage of taxes is because nobody is paying them. The revenue needed to run the federal government is being borrowed, much of it from China and other foreign entities. What isn’t just being printed by the Fed, of course.
@@
June 10th, 2009
8:46 am
Whoops!
I meant to sign that 8:45.
Luv @@
USinUK
June 10th, 2009
8:47 am
“At least we don’t elect them like Democrats did with Al Franken. A comedian as Senator?”
Fred. Grandy.
BDAtlanta
June 10th, 2009
8:47 am
As usual, the Conservatives want to whine about tax increases.
Doesn’t matter if it may help the situation.
They just want their damn tax cuts, to hell with the rest of the people. You ask for 1 more penny a year and they will throw a tantrum on the floor like a kid in a toy store. You know it, they know it.
Republican Mantra #1: “Me me me me me me me me me me me me me”
Republican Mantra #2: “Lord, I needs me a tax cut. I need a leg up on everyone else.”
Republican Mantra #3: I can’t compete, I need a tax loophole of some sort.”
Pay yer damn taxes and STFU!
Grand Old Plan
June 10th, 2009
8:50 am
Uh Oh. Time to clam up. The Dems, I mean libtards, are asking for proof and we don’t have proof to back up lies. Otherwise, they would not be lies. Tell a lie and back off. Or, tell a lie and back it up with more lies. It works on some people. Keep up the good work, Ben. Bud and whiner need your help. And, remember, deceit, obfuscation, lies, subject changing, etc., are all your best friends. Use them. Use them repeatedly. Use them often. We are behind you 100 percent.
Cherokee
June 10th, 2009
8:50 am
Whiner lie? Responsible to his Lord and Savior? Say it ain’t so….
I Rule You :-)/ You Whine :-(
June 10th, 2009
8:50 am
Whiner, every point you make in that paragraph is a lie. Every one. And you know it, because we have discussed it in the past.
I disagree-
From bookman’s own link:
2007, the last year the budget was set by a Republican Congress and President, deficit spending was 342,153,000,000.
In 2008, a democrat controlled Congress with Republican presidential veto power, it was 641,850,000,000.
in 2009, same as 08 it was 1,977,830,000,000.
Which branch of government controls spending, bookman?
Hmmmmm?
BDAtlanta
June 10th, 2009
8:50 am
Cooter from Dukes of Hazzard was a Congressman. Gopher from Love Boat was an elected official. Sonny Bono, singer and actor.
At least Franken has some sense. His book about the Liars (Hannity, Colter, O’Reilly) is required reading by anyone who wants to just laugh in the face of anyone watching Fox News with a straight face.
mm
June 10th, 2009
8:53 am
I’m shocked!! Whiner told a lie!! Keep living in your imaginary world wingnuts.
Only a moron would think tax cuts would cause a revenue increase. Only uneducated wingnuts believe that crap.
Grand Old Plan
June 10th, 2009
8:53 am
Ahem. Don’t forget Reagan and “Bedtime for Bonzo”. Then again, maybe that was not comedy.
TnGelding
June 10th, 2009
8:53 am
Ever heard of Sonny Bono? And then his wife after he hit that tree.
RW-(the original)
June 10th, 2009
8:53 am
Congress reinstated Paygo rules in 2007. I wonder why that nugget got left out of this story?
TnGelding
June 10th, 2009
8:55 am
USinUK
June 10th, 2009
8:47 am
I was going to use Grandy, but he had pretty good credentials:
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0334948/bio
josef nix
June 10th, 2009
8:56 am
BD–Cooter and Bono were, given the generally low standards of the body, not bad reps…
dougmo
June 10th, 2009
8:58 am
I thought Cynthia Tucker was going to let people post comments on her articles when she moved to DC. I guess since she is a affirmed Socialist, (just like you Jay) and cannot handle any criticism of her rantings and drivel, she will not allow any feedback. Why don’t you ask her why she won’t allow us to give her any feedback Jay? lnquiring minds want to know.
BDAtlanta
June 10th, 2009
9:00 am
I love the right wing Me First attitude. Kayaker up there worried about HIS 401k (damn the rest of the country, I gots to get mine) and Whiner worried about he might have to pay a few more taxes (damn the rest of the country, I gots to get and keep mine).
How about “What is best for America right now” before “What is best for ME right now?”
401k’s will come back and paying a bit mroe in taxes isn’t going to kill you. We have to fix the country first. And no thanks to your 8-year debacle (some might call it leadership.)