There’s no substitute for good sense
Reappointing Robert Gates as secretary of defense was probably the smartest personnel decision of Barack Obama’s political career, the mirror-image opposite of George Bush’s disastrous selection of Dick Cheney as his vice president.
In fact, if Gates had been SecDef instead of Rumsfeld from the beginning, I suspect the whole course of the Bush presidency would have been altered for the better. Alas, we shall never know.
American public support for the Afghan war will dissipate in less than a year unless the Obama administration achieves “a perceptible shift in momentum,” Defense Secretary Robert Gates said in an interview.
Mr. Gates said the momentum in Afghanistan is with the Taliban, who are inflicting heavy U.S. casualties and hold de facto control of swaths of the country.
The defense chief has been moving aggressively to salvage the war in Afghanistan, signing off on the deployments of 21,000 American military personnel and recently taking the unprecedented step of firing the four-star general who commanded all U.S. forces there. Mr. Gates, speaking in his cabin on an Air Force plane, said the administration is rapidly running out of time to turn around the war.
“People are willing to stay in the fight, I believe, if they think we’re making headway,” he said. “If they think we’re stalemated and having our young men and women get killed, then patience is going to run out pretty fast.”
Mr. Gates, a Bush administration holdover, also waded into the debate over the Guantanamo Bay prison and Bush-era antiterror tactics. He said critics of the Obama administration’s plans to close Guantanamo and move some prisoners to the U.S. were guilty of “fear-mongering.”
“If people begin to absorb the fact that we’ve got several dozen very dangerous terrorists in our jails right now…maybe a little greater perspective would be brought to the issue,” he said.
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112 comments Add your comment
AmVet
May 29th, 2009
2:41 pm
Neo-cons fear monger???
I am shocked…
I Rule You :-)/ You Whine :-(
May 29th, 2009
2:42 pm
There are a lot of Bush foreign policies that Obozo clings to, like most of them in fact, so yeah bookman, take credit for them.
Pat yourself on the back.
We’ll blame the future appeasements and surrenders on Bushie, right?
S GA dem
May 29th, 2009
2:43 pm
How long before someone on this blog calls this guy ’stupid’ as well??
Joey
May 29th, 2009
2:44 pm
Agree on Gates. Migh argue that Gates was only smart appointment.
Wonder why you compared Bush-Cheney to Obama-Gates????
Do you think Gates labeled all critics as fear-mongers or just the Republican Critics?
Turd Fergusen
May 29th, 2009
2:51 pm
Ya bunch of PeaceMongers…*TEEWY* *POOT*
godless heathen
May 29th, 2009
2:52 pm
If public opinion turns more against the Afghan war, Obama has his scapegoat in place. All the libs will blame the Bush holdover, Gates, and Obama will get a pass.
S GA dem
May 29th, 2009
2:52 pm
I don’t think Gates cares whether it’s a D or R, he calls B.S. when he sees it. Why can’t the politicians see that that’s why we like this guy? That’s why Americans still like and respect McCain(w/ the exception of his Palin choice)
N.J,
May 29th, 2009
2:54 pm
Well so far those who supported the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan and setting up Guantanamo have a bit of a credibility gap going for them.
So far one third of all the people who have been detained at Guantanamo were released because the only crime they committed was having been non Afghani Muslims who happened to be in Afghanistan. Others were released to their countries of origin to be tried there but in most cases, the only evidence against them was that they confessed to being members of their country’s branch of Al Qaeda under torture and eventually they were released because the only evidence that they were members of Al Qaeda was that they confessed to it under torture. Real important information that prevented another attack on the United States, Mr Vice president.
There are another 50-60 who have been cleared for release, but are being held because returning them to China would not be good for their health.
So far all we have is the word of those who have used torture to determine that the remaining people at Guantanamo are dangerous with little other evidence being presented. But those with most of those released and extradicted to their own countries, the only evidence against them was that they confessed under torture.
Turd Fergusen
May 29th, 2009
2:59 pm
Thats correct jay bookman so why dont ya get some.
???
May 29th, 2009
3:04 pm
And Obama’s choice of Biden was such a good one? Good for a laugh that’s about it.
ty webb
May 29th, 2009
3:08 pm
and Geitner, and Daschle?
N.J,
May 29th, 2009
3:10 pm
Yes, several dozen dangerous people in Guantanamo.
And about 11 months ago, an interview with one of the interrogators revealed that:
*************************************************************
On July 2, 2008, the International Herald Tribune revealed in an article that the U.S. military trainers who came to Guantánamo Bay in December 2002 had based an entire interrogation class on a chart copied directly from a 1957 Air Force study of Chinese Communist torture techniques used during the Korean War to obtain confessions, many of them false.
The chart showed the effects of “coercive management techniques” for possible use on prisoners, including “sleep deprivation,” “prolonged constraint,” and “exposure.” The 1957 article from which the chart was copied, written by Alfred D. Biderman, a sociologist then working for the Air Force, was entitled “Communist Attempts to Elicit False Confessions From Air Force Prisoners of War”. Other techniques used by the Chinese Communists that were listed on the chart include “Semi-Starvation,” “Exploitation of Wounds,” and “Filthy, Infested Surroundings,” along with their effects: “Makes Victim Dependent on Interrogator,” “Weakens Mental and Physical Ability to Resist,” and “Reduces Prisoner to ‘Animal Level’ Concerns.” The only change made to the chart used at Guantánamo was an altered title.
*********************************************************************
Basically the Bush Administration dusted off a 52 year old Cold war document on torture methods used by the Communist Chinese during the Cold War which determined that the methods got tons of false information, and started using these methods, claiming that they were very effective and they got good information from using them all the time.
ty webb
May 29th, 2009
3:11 pm
and Richardson?
AmVet
May 29th, 2009
3:14 pm
S GA dem at 2:52 pm,
Bravo! I concur.
I am still amazed and very glad that McCain won the nomination rather than one of the numerous George Bush wannabes and assorted flat-earth chickenhawks. It confirmed that this great nation can learn from it’s mistakes.
To this “lib” McCain was preferable to Obama. Had Nader not run, I would have voted for the “RINO”. Actually to my way of thinking all of the BushCo neo-cons are likely the real RINOs. And they can certainly take credit for imploding the Republican Party.
And choosing Sister Sarah, instead of a more reasoned and reasonable moderate, while not costing him the election, certainly ensured it was not going to be close.
Welcher now feigns he didn’t for months last year portray Obama as a surrender monkey and a cut and runner.
That he was wrong yet again, merely confirms the obvious. The lunatic fringe cannot accurately assess a candidates positions or capabilities if their very lives depended on it. They sees an R after the name, and that is good enough for them…
getalife
May 29th, 2009
3:14 pm
Gen. Petraeus: US violated Geneva Convention, the court of law could try terrorists: we made mistakes after 9/11: Close Gitmo.
Nuff said.
TUESDAY VANDY GIRL
May 29th, 2009
3:16 pm
OK..this is beginnning to feel like teaching calculus to the short bus crowd…
ONCE AGAIN…. waterboarding , desecration of korans in front of the jihadis, sleep deprevation, and calling the pedophile prophet mohammed a goat molestor, are NOT TORTURE.
That said, they can be fun
getalife
May 29th, 2009
3:21 pm
Tell it to the General and Gates valley girl.
N.J,
May 29th, 2009
3:21 pm
A couple of dozen extremely dangerous people.
As of January 17, 2009, there were still 245 people left in Guantanamo.
50-60 of them have been completely cleared for release, but since their country of origin is Communist China, and they are considered criminals in China because they want to free their region of the country from Communist rule they are all dressed up with no place to go.
In other cases, many of the people who were released and returned to their own countries because they were found to be not guilty of anything have VANISHED from the official DoD lists. That is to say, the DoD now asserts these people were never kept at Guantanamo, even though the home nations have the documentation of their release from Guantanamo or their extradition. Overall it took between a year and two years to release 250 people finally stating that “they posed no threat to the United States”. Most of these people have completely disappeared from the official lists of people who were originally claimed to be at Guantanamo. Between 2005 and today another 250 were released to their own coutries for various reasons.
In February 2006, the United Nations released a study about Guantanamo and basically stated the place should be shut down, because if after starting with 750 people and finally being down to several dozen extremely dangerous people, opening it was obviously a wrong move to begin with.
???
May 29th, 2009
3:21 pm
BTW, do all the bloggers at AJC cut and paste something from another newspaper and call it theirs or just Mr. Bookman?
I Rule You :-)/ You Whine :-(
May 29th, 2009
3:23 pm
AmTrac, meet General Motors. General Motors, AmTrac.
Say hello to my little friend the Post Office.
This line is for stamps, that line is for colostomies.
Take a number, mf.
S GA dem
May 29th, 2009
3:23 pm
Tuesday – I’m sure you’ve never taken calculus but have definitely ridden the short bus. You are the reason the Republican party is what it is. Ciao.
mike
May 29th, 2009
3:23 pm
Two things:
1) Jay should be capable of giving Bush credit for hiring Gates, but apparently his partisanship make him incapable of doing so. If Obama is “smart” for keeping Gates, what does that make Bush for hiring him in the first place?
2) If Lincoln had made Grant the head of the Union army after years of standing by McClellan, the Civil War would have ended years earlier. That’s how it goes in wars.
Doggone/GA
May 29th, 2009
3:25 pm
“BTW, do all the bloggers at AJC cut and paste something from another newspaper and call it theirs or just Mr. Bookman?”
Get a clue. This is an OPINION page…it’s only sense to quote what you are expressing your opinion about. Who cares if it comes from another papar, besides you and your ilk?
mike
May 29th, 2009
3:26 pm
getalife –
“Tell it to the General and Gates valley girl.”
Well, gee I thought that you said that all politicians were liars. Why do you always trust the ones who share your policy views? You call others “gullible” for believing politicians when they don’t share your views.
Paul
May 29th, 2009
3:28 pm
Jay
I’d still like to hear what the goal is.
And how the strategy is different in a way other than scale.
For this the Obama Administration get credit?
Sigh….
AmVet
UltraLibs fear monger???
I am shocked…
Doggone/GA
May 29th, 2009
3:29 pm
“waterboarding…NOT TORTURE” – unfortunately for you, we tried, convicted and put people in jail for doing EXACTLY this “non-torture” after WW2. You need to brush up on your history. Torture then, torture now. How hard can it be to grasp that?
Paul
May 29th, 2009
3:30 pm
mike 3:26
I can’t speak for him, but I do believe Gen Petraeus would take mild irritation at being called a ‘politician’ (even tho 4-stars are politically astute).
DB, Gwinnettian
May 29th, 2009
3:31 pm
Mike, felt like having at those issues you cited downstairs in this thread because they’re not completely unrelated to Jay’s topic.
Just to kick this stuff around a bit. and because while I give you a hard time when you’re being silly, those were reasonable observtions. my .02 USD follows your observation…
> illegal spying – Actually the spying was ruled legal and Obama is keeping the programs in place
That’s shorthand, but ok.
> Debt – Bush ran up a lot fo debt, but nothing like Obama has
There’s every reason to believe the debt would’ve continued to skyrocket under a Republican president, given the allergic reaction to rolling back their precious income tax cuts for the upper quintile income earners.
> Deficits – see above
Yes please do.
> Oil – An issue that goes back to the 70s
CAFE goals have been set to where they should’ve been ten, fifteen years ago. Never would’ve happened under McCain.
> Education – Bush’s educational record is pretty good and NCLB was a bi-partisan success
NCLB was a reasonable start, the dem knock against it is that the feds didn’t properly fund the mandates, but that’s not really the whole story. Fact is, those high-stakes tests as the sole metric for pass/fail is fairly unworkable and it needs to be overhauled big-time.
> Crumbling infrastrcuture – Obama’s stimulus has very little infrastructure spending
Very little is infinitely better than none, which is what the no-new-spending GOP would’ve gotten us.
> Jobs – Unemployment rate under Bush was very low until the end.
The rate was low, but it masked a terrible job growth overall during the first six years. Basically it should’ve been lower, but (just my opinion) GOP calibrations are always attuned toward empowering management rather than labor in order to suppress wages. It’s just what they do.
> Afghanistan – Obama is proud to say that he supported it from the beginning
Ok. Vast potential for cluster-foxtrot there.
> Pakistan – Obama continuing Bush’s policies exactly
If you want to believe this, fine; I think when you replace State dept. heads, the dynamic changes even if the stated policy doesn’t, necessarily.
> Iran – Been a problem since the 70s and no change in sight
witholding judgment here. The opportunities for normalized relations should be seized and I hope Obama manages it.
> N Korea – Is this going better under Obama?
Jeez, man, it’s what, four months? You expected him to make the regime less crazy?
Paul
May 29th, 2009
3:32 pm
Tuesday Vandy Girl/DoggoneGA
Forget waterboarding. What about the other Enhanced Interrogation Techniques that are grouped as torture? You know, the ones Spkr Pelosi was briefed on. Told about. Heard from someone.
Wyld Byll Hyltnyr
May 29th, 2009
3:32 pm
President Bush and Vice President Cheney, both true heroes in America’s grandest tradition, fixed the broken Clinton intelligence system that failed on 09/11 and kept this nation safe. I don’t know anyone that would bet pink-slips that President Ob-amateur and Vice President Bidet can do the same.
G-d bless President Bush and Vice President Cheney.
???
May 29th, 2009
3:33 pm
That’s funny doggone, I looked at the other “opinion” pages and they don’t cut and paste just about 100% of their article…so go away with your pack mentality
AmVet
May 29th, 2009
3:34 pm
getalife,
Valley girl? LOL. But it’s damned near an insult to those west coast airheads…
Paul, UltraLibs fear monger? Am I missing something here?
???, couldn’t say.
But at least he and everyone else here, who matters, are not afraid of using a name they will stick by.
As your posts seem as vacuous as your moniker, why not explain to us why Biden is such a BAD choice. Just for a laugh.
Looks like Curly has got his knickers all twisted up…
DB, Gwinnettian
May 29th, 2009
3:35 pm
Tues, for the record, when you celebrate the rape of minors in American custody as you did yesterday, it’s kind of hard to take much of anything you say afterward without revulsion.
Paul
May 29th, 2009
3:36 pm
Enter your comments here
Brad Steel
May 29th, 2009
3:36 pm
VANDY GENIUS,
Maybe it’s not torture to wingnuts like you, but it’s stupid and ineffective. Remember what happened last time the US was foolish enough to use a muslim holy land as a temporary military base? Of course you don’t.
eagle scout
May 29th, 2009
3:36 pm
A sad day in American history brought on by the war mongers Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld….”US Army base shuts down after rise in suicides” Yes ..That’s right Ft Campbell the home of the 101st Airborne is on “stand-down” which on today entered its third day due to the highest rate of suicides in the army, with at least 11 confirmed or suspected suicides.
Such a proud day in American History….
getalife
May 29th, 2009
3:38 pm
Damn mike is moron.
Those two are not politicians stupid.
Geez.
mike
May 29th, 2009
3:40 pm
DB –
A few quick responses –
“There’s every reason to believe the debt would’ve continued to skyrocket under a Republican president, given the allergic reaction to rolling back their precious income tax cuts for the upper quintile income earners.”
I don’t think that they would have reached the heights of Obama’s deficits and I also think that low taxes generally lead to stronger growth. That being said, it is all conjecture because Obama did win.
“CAFE goals have been set to where they should’ve been ten, fifteen years ago. Never would’ve happened under McCain.”
Fair enough.
“NCLB was a reasonable start, the dem knock against it is that the feds didn’t properly fund the mandates, but that’s not really the whole story. ”
NCLB was a bi-partisan effort headed by Kennedy, so the Dems don’t have a leg to stand on.
Infrastructure- “Very little is infinitely better than none, which is what the no-new-spending GOP would’ve gotten us.”
I disagree. If the vast majority of the infrastructure is crumbling, “very little” is irrelevant.
Jobs – “The rate was low, but it masked a terrible job growth overall during the first six years. Basically it should’ve been lower, but (just my opinion) GOP calibrations are always attuned toward empowering management rather than labor in order to suppress wages. It’s just what they do.”
Can you explain how any of Bush’s policies empowered management to suppress wages?
“> Pakistan – Obama continuing Bush’s policies exactly
If you want to believe this, fine; I think when you replace State dept. heads, the dynamic changes even if the stated policy doesn’t, necessarily.”
Pretty lame comeback. Policy is all that matters and if you think that the Taliban care that Clinton is there now, you haven’t been following event closely.
“> Iran – Been a problem since the 70s and no change in sight
witholding judgment here. The opportunities for normalized relations should be seized and I hope Obama manages it.”
Hope is all we have, as the Iranians have spurned his advances.
” N Korea – Is this going better under Obama?
Jeez, man, it’s what, four months? You expected him to make the regime less crazy?”"
Of course not. That’s my point. The fact that it is Bush or Obama doesn’t make the regime less crazy, hence the claim that it is Bush’s fault is silly.
Normal
May 29th, 2009
3:40 pm
I said back in ‘03 that President Bush should go to Afganistan, bring
back Bin Ladens head on a pike and plant it in NYC at Ground Zero, then
and ONLY then talk to us about Iraq, but he started a two front war.
History has proven many times armies don’t win two front wars. We would
not be worrying about Afganistan if he had been smart. We wouldn’t have needed Gitmo and our soldiers wouldn’t be dieing now. But it is
what it is. We don’t have the military strength any more to fight in
both places. We have to give up one and accept the consequences. Leave
Iraq and finally finish the job in Afganistan. It’s the only way we
will win anything.
———–
Godless Heathen is right, The public will turn against Aganistan if
something isn’t done soon, just like it did for Viet Nam.
—————
Tuesday Vandy Girl: Oh, I get it, it’s sarcasm, isn’t it?
————
Whine, Calling the President names is not nice, agree with him or not
and lessens some otherwise valid points you make. Just saying…
mike
May 29th, 2009
3:41 pm
getalife –
Let me ask you again:
Do you call people names to their faces? Or do you only do it when anonymous?
Tell us again about who are cowards.
Joey
May 29th, 2009
3:43 pm
[To this "lib" McCain was preferable to Obama. Had Nader not run, I would have voted for the "Rino".]
One can only conclude from this statement that you voted for Nader. Having voted for Nader, your later reference to the lunatic fringe must include you in that fringe.
mike
May 29th, 2009
3:43 pm
Normal –
“We wouldn’t have needed Gitmo and our soldiers wouldn’t be dieing now.”
How would the lack of an Iraq War made Gitmo un-needed? What is the correlation between the two?
getalife
May 29th, 2009
3:43 pm
I am Sicilian mike.
Of course.
mike
May 29th, 2009
3:46 pm
getalife –
Oh so you are so unable to control your emotions that you walk around calling people cowards and morons? How do they respond when you act so childishly?
getalife
May 29th, 2009
3:48 pm
Quit asking stupid questions and I will leave you alone mike.
Deal?
josef nix
May 29th, 2009
3:49 pm
Posted earlier on NCLB…It’s a failure, no ifs, ands or buts about it. I can tell that those in support haven’t been in a classroom trying to comply with its “mandates.” We just came through CRCT and, yes, my kids did well enough and they’re an “at risk” lot, Y’all need to get up and go take a look at what’s being tested and how it’s being presented. Oy!
Oh, and the short bus? Is that the one Obama keeps throwing his supporters under?
DB, Gwinnettian
May 29th, 2009
3:50 pm
Mike, just time for a couple of points:
Can you explain how any of Bush’s policies empowered management to suppress wages?
Couple of things come to mind: On a grand scale you’ve got ongoing outsourcing and trade policies (granted, inherited from Clinton); pushing for immigration reform that seemed mostly about institutionalizing the practice of importing cheap labor with a nudge and a wink. On a smaller scale, appointing judges who do stuff like, oh, denying Lily Ledbetter her back wages, and then voting against legislation designed to make atrocities like that happen again. (that’s more a psychological thing but it’s typical of GOP strategies—keep management happy and workers frightened.)
I disagree. If the vast majority of the infrastructure is crumbling, “very little” is irrelevant.
Not if it’s a bridge you’re driving over, a rail line you take to work.
Later, all.
mike
May 29th, 2009
3:51 pm
getalife –
No. I am trying to get a handle on what kind of “man” you are.
Personally, I think you are full of it. You don’t act so uncivlliy in public, otherwise you would getting your face kicked in on a regular basis and wouldn’t be able to type. The truth is that you are just a really angry person who vents his rage on blogs anonymously and cowardly.
getalife
May 29th, 2009
3:53 pm
You don’t want to know mike.
Grow up son and grow a spine if you want to blog.
It’s not for children, it’s for adults.
georgian by birth floridian because I'm lucky
May 29th, 2009
3:55 pm
Does anyone know what the benchmarks hoped to be achieved through this war?
Is there a time table on a withdrawl plan yet for the Afgan war?
I am shocked there has not been that discussion as it seemed to be a topic people cared about. Guess they were just playing around.