The conundrum of North Korea
Sometimes there are problems without solutions. For example, North Korea.
To those outside its borders, the behavior of North Korea seems driven by madness. Its actions make no sense; they seem random and incoherent, carried out with no apparent long-term in mind.
But that’s probably wrong. Those actions — testing nuclear weapons, firing missiles — probably do make some kind of sense when viewed from the only perspective that matters in North Korea, from inside the government. It’s a schizophrenic state, listening only to the voices inside its own head and not at all to those of the outside world.
That makes it a problem to be managed, not solved. The first President Bush, Bill Clinton and George W. Bush all took different approaches, but with equally little or no progress. The same will likely be true of Barack Obama. Again, what’s going on inside North Korea is far more determinative than anything that happens outside.
So, we have to be ready for military action should that come; we have to contain North Korea’s nuclear weaponry, technology and material, so the problem doesn’t spread. And we have to be prepared for the day when it all falls apart.
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212 comments Add your comment
Mrs. Godzilla
May 27th, 2009
8:33 am
Paging President Jintao….
lovelyliz
May 27th, 2009
8:38 am
This could be about trying to save face. North Korea has nothing going for it but its nuclear program and they use that as leverage. Heaven forbud they admit their people are starving and they need help. No, what NK will do is run some nuclear tests, kidnap some South Korean fisherman and then negotiate a trade for million of pounds in food and aid that they will be given because of their “superiority”.
RW-(the original)
May 27th, 2009
8:39 am
But didn’t the UN send a strongly worded letter?
I Rule You :-)/ You Whine :-(
May 27th, 2009
8:40 am
Yeah, hopeandchange.duh doesn’t seem to be making a difference, does it?
And here I thought the world was gonna love us.
Copyleft
May 27th, 2009
8:41 am
Well, let’s check in with our neoconservative friends and see what they recommend, shall we?
“Nuke ‘em! NUKE ‘EM ALL! U-S-A! U-S-A!”
Ahh, thank you. Very helpful. And surprisingly similar to your recommendations for all other foreign-policy issues! Hope you enjoyed your run, now go sit in the corner again. The grownups are talking.
Now: Does anyone have any PRODUCTIVE ideas with a prayer of actually WORKING?
Curious Observer
May 27th, 2009
8:45 am
Contain North Korea’s nuclear weaponry, technology and material? And how do we do that in a country in which the opinion of the outside world counts for nothing and the influence of other countries, even China, is nil?
The beating of the war drum that we read about today may be a symptom of an internal power struggle in North Korea–a struggle to determine the successor to the ailing current leader. It is not unheard of for a country to start a war in order to garner internal support. That’s the truly scary aspect of the current developments in North Korea. That country apparently sees itself as having little to lose if it launches an attack on South Korea, and the disavowal of the truce that has lasted for more than fifty years makes that prospect even more likely. This may be much more than the actions of a three-year-old threatening to hold its breath if it does not get its way. Somebody had better be considering the prospects of another Korean war, with all the diplomatic complications it would bring. It is far too late to be talking about containment now.
I Rule You :-)/ You Whine :-(
May 27th, 2009
8:48 am
Medicare Part A will run out of funds to pay promised benefits by 2017, with a 20% shortfall in revenues. Paying all promised benefits for Part A alone over the long run would require raising the total Medicare payroll tax from 2.9% today to 12%. That is in addition to the Social Security payroll tax of 12.4% today, which would have to increase to close to 18% to pay all promised benefits for that program. That would result in a total payroll tax rate of 30%.
Given this overwhelming financial disaster, does it make sense for the government to take on even more financial burdens through Medicare? Medicare is supposed to be for retirees. What would all these new financial burdens for everyone do to the program originally intended for them?
Indeed, one has to ask, do the Medicare for All nuts even understand numbers? Or are they what they appear to be, numerically illiterate?-Amspec
My guess is they are illiterate.
But this could be a good thing, why would North Korea/ China want to invade us if it means they get stuck with all the bills we can’t pay?
George American
May 27th, 2009
8:48 am
We need to get tough with this 2nd-rate rice republic.
Strong and decisive military action will show the world that America is the last super power and we won’t tolerate their commie saber rattling.
jewcowboy
May 27th, 2009
8:49 am
Put an embargo on big gold sunglasses and they will crumble.
Brad Steel
May 27th, 2009
8:50 am
Whiner spews: “And here I thought the world was gonna love us.”
Whiner, no one cares what you thought or what you think. Save it for your Hello-Kitty diary.
jewcowboy
May 27th, 2009
8:51 am
George,
Like we did with Iraq?
Austin Powers
May 27th, 2009
8:53 am
I am ready and willing to face Dr. Evil when my country calls.
RW-(the original)
May 27th, 2009
8:55 am
Meanwhile back in what’s left of the good old USA….
A little window into the new American business model
I’ve got to head to the forest, but if I run into Paul on an open or dead thread later I’m really starting to rethink my entire position on campaign finance, assuming we’ll still have elections in the future.
Bye!
Bosch
May 27th, 2009
8:58 am
Wait, aren’t we supposed to invade countries that have WMD? Isn’t that the plan?
George American
May 27th, 2009
8:58 am
jewCB,
The watered-down, 1/2-assed effort in Iraq was due to the congressional democrats and surrender monkeys lack of support for the military. Their contempt for the military and anti-American is treason.
With some strong military leadership, we’d have peace and a democratic regime in Iraq. Gas would be $1.50 per gallon.
sd
May 27th, 2009
9:00 am
The country seems to be a cult of personality. It seems that if Kim Jong Il was “removed” that North Korea would be a lot better off. The United Nations should act to “remove” him.
Bosch
May 27th, 2009
9:02 am
Seriously folks, what can we do about it? What rule in the rule book says that North Korea can’t have nuclear weapons while other countries can? And why is the initial reaction to nuclear tests that they are automatically going to start blowing people up?
RW-(the original)
May 27th, 2009
9:02 am
One last thing so as to get back on topic. North Korea has announced they will no longer be bound by the truce of 1953. Technically I guess we’re back at war with them. Better get the UN to write an even more strongly worded letter.
Later kidz!
Brian
May 27th, 2009
9:03 am
All we’ve got to do is hang on until Dec.21, 2012, then it won’t matter anyway.(LOL) By that time Iran will probably have the bomb too.
Bosch
May 27th, 2009
9:05 am
I still think George American is a parody poster like Redneck Convert.
Donovan
May 27th, 2009
9:06 am
“We have to be ready for military action”. Listen to our little chicken hawk liberal who is now fighting right along side of Obama in the valleys of Afghanistan. Boy, I feel safer now that the Dems are forming a convenient backbone. Why doesn’t the new Sec. of State give another autographed basketball to Kim so as to cement our good relations and understanding of the problem?
mike
May 27th, 2009
9:06 am
jewcowboy –
“Like we did with Iraq?”
Say what you want about Iraq, but nobody is worried that they will be producing WMD. That particular problem has been solved.
Bosch
May 27th, 2009
9:06 am
sd,
“The United Nations should act to “remove” him” Why?
Copyleft
May 27th, 2009
9:09 am
Mike: “That particular problem has been solved”
And best of all, it wasn’t even a problem in the first place! Now. THAT’s a good use of a trillion dollars and thousands of American lives.
mike
May 27th, 2009
9:10 am
Bosch –
“And why is the initial reaction to nuclear tests that they are automatically going to start blowing people up?”
The concern is not so much that they themselves will use them, but that they will sell them to folks who would. Let’s not forget that this is a country that is deeply impoverished and has used several unpopular tactics to raise money, from missile proliferation to counterfeiting. This fear is not exclusive to right wing nuts. It is pretty much the consensus of the foreign policy establishment.
Fly-On-The-Wall
May 27th, 2009
9:11 am
George American,
You can’t have it both ways when you state that Democrats and surrender monkeys caused a lack of support for the Iraq War and then point out that Democrats voted for that same war. Those brave Democrats only did their patriotic duty in pointing out the lack of support the Bush Administration gave our brave soldiers. That is something you cannot deny happened – lack of armored Hummvees, lack of body armor, faulty electrical installations, corruption of suppliers who had no-bid contracts. And this is the short list.
Are you saying we don’t have a democratic regime in Iraq now? Then you disagree with Bush, Cheney, and all of their administration?
Bosch
May 27th, 2009
9:12 am
mike,
Sorry, but I don’t buy that paranoid argument of “OMG, the bad guys are gonna get ‘em and blow us all up.”
Please. Only in the movies.
mike
May 27th, 2009
9:12 am
Copyleft –
“And best of all, it wasn’t even a problem in the first place! Now. THAT’s a good use of a trillion dollars and thousands of American lives.”
Yawn. Actually the fact that we didn’t know if he had an active program was a problem, but hey we all know where we stand on that issue and it wasn’t the point I was raising.
Bosch
May 27th, 2009
9:14 am
Maybe we should call James Bond or send in Jack Bauer – they could fix it in a jiffy. Anyone have their numbers?
mike
May 27th, 2009
9:14 am
Bosch –
“Please. Only in the movies.”
You would think so, but there is a verifiable history of NK selling missiles and let’s not forget that this is a regime that kidnapped a famous Japanese director to make movies for them. That’s the kind of thing that only happens in movies…and in NK.
Bosch
May 27th, 2009
9:15 am
BTW, great Luckovich cartoon today – I wonder if Omar is Rush’s tailor! BWA!!!!!
Mrs. Godzilla
May 27th, 2009
9:15 am
From Kevin Drun
“Dan Drezner remarks on the DPRK’s recent nuclear test:
I think the Obama administration has come up with a novel way of dealing with the North Koreans — get everyone to talk about something else.
That is novel — at least compared to the nonsense normally spewed by the Bush administration every time Kim Jong-il decided to yank their chains. And in any case, if meaningless bluster isn’t your thing, there aren’t a whole lot of choices available:
The alternatives to the repeated short-term carrot strategy are even less appealing. There is no viable military option unless everyone is comfortable with the destruction of Seoul; there is no viable sanctions option unless China decides to cut off the energy tap, and they’ll only do this if they’re sure it won’t lead to a stream of North Korea refugees entering Manchuria.
In other words, there’s really not a lot we can do about this unless China, against all odds, (a) finally tires of Pyongyang’s antics, (b) beefs up its suprisingly porous border with North Korea, and (c) decides to cut off aid. There’s some evidence of (a), but not much for anything else.”
China is the key.
sd
May 27th, 2009
9:21 am
The people of North Korea have been told that Kim Jong Il’s birth was predicted by a swallow (a bird) and that upon his birth that a double rainbow filled the skies over the mountains. They are taught in schools from young ages about him and his father and how they are deities. The successor to Kim will be one of his three sons.
Seems to me that by pulling the mask off of the leader, that the people would see the facade. By exposing his lies to the people. By letting them know that relentless toil and extreme poverty for nothing but to pay homage to a fake deity is NOT the only choice in life, would help. Perhaps the people would rise up and revolt if they knew there was a better choice.
jt
May 27th, 2009
9:25 am
“By exposing his lies to the people. By letting them know that relentless toil and extreme poverty for nothing but to pay homage to a fake deity is NOT the only choice in life, would help.”
That sounds like a lesson about 25% of Americans need to learn.
I Rule You :-)/ You Whine :-(
May 27th, 2009
9:33 am
Seems to me that by pulling the mask off of the leader, that the people would see the facade. By exposing his lies to the people. By letting them know that relentless toil and extreme poverty for nothing but to pay homage to a fake deity is NOT the only choice in life, would help. Perhaps the people would rise up and revolt if they knew there was a better choice.
Lucky for us, Obozo is busy pulling off his own “mask.”
And for what is underneath of it, eewwww.
Redneck Convert
May 27th, 2009
9:34 am
Well, seems to me this N. Korea is getting too big for its britches. Dropping a few A-bombs on them would cut them down to size. And if the Chinese Commies don’t like it we got plenty more bombs where those come from. I’m too old for the draft so I reckon I can look at things in a diffrent way from these whipper-snappers on the blog.
Seems to me somebody could make a mint with bumper stickers and ribbons that say Bomb the N. Koreans. If they got them out just when the war started. Nothing wrong with a little Free Innerprize during a war.
Have a good day everybody.
Bosch
May 27th, 2009
9:37 am
mike,
Oh no! They sold some missiles and kidnapped a movie director? Let’s get in the bunker holes now!!!
Big deal – we sell missiles all the time.
Bosch
May 27th, 2009
9:41 am
Mrs. G.,
“China is the key.” Eggsactly. We can beat our chests all we want, but China has got to be the one to step in and goes “Hey boys, enough.”
Remember boys and girls, we ain’t “all that” anymore. We aren’t in much of a position to tell anyone what to do.
Bosch
May 27th, 2009
9:42 am
And can anyone out there tell me why North Korea isn’t allowed to have nuclear weapons?
AmVet
May 27th, 2009
9:44 am
Six-party talks. Bilateral talks. Red China with its most favored nation status.
Maybe Michael Reagan can follow in his daddy’s footsteps and single-handedly bring down the Yellow menace…
Gandalf, the White! (!)
May 27th, 2009
9:49 am
This is all Harry Truman’s fault! If he would have let General McC Nuke the Chinese back across the Yaloo, no North Korea.
Liberals messing up American interests for at least 43 years!
Gandalf, the White! (!)
May 27th, 2009
9:50 am
Bosch, it’s simple really..they can’t have nukes because you are a dumbass.
DB, Gwinnettian
May 27th, 2009
9:50 am
That makes it a problem to be managed, not solved.
Oh, for politicians with the backbone to say that out loud.
Paul
May 27th, 2009
9:53 am
Jay
[[And we have to be prepared for the day when it all falls apart.]]
That’s pretty chilling. Vince Flynn’s latest novel dealt with just that scenario. I hope fiction does not become fact. BTW – S Korea’s capital, Seoul, is about 30 miles south of the demilitarized zone separating it from N Korea. In the event of a conflict it’d be reduced to rubble quite quickly. And I don’t think the N Koreans would worry about civilian collateral damage as we do in Iraq and Afghanistan.
CopyLeft 8:41
That was pretty funny. Ridicule the ‘neocons’ (are they representative of any significant population?) for having a one-track mind, then ask if anyone has any good ideas on what to do.
Ummm, Democrats have the Executive and Legislative. Shouldn’t they by now have put something forward that can be discussed? Well, they have. My last read of the LA Times said SecState Clinton a few days back had blown off any thought of engagement with the N Koreans. I rather expected those who blasted Pres Bush for his six-party strategy to come unglued. They didn’t. I understand Pres Obama wants to work through the UN and engage China (as did Bush) – all that’s nice, but as Jay says, then what?
Oh, before I forget – LA Times point was that N Korea did what they did because they felt roundly IGNORED by the Obama Administration. So it would appear the Obama Administration bears some responsibility for this deteriorating situation, doesn’t it?
Jewcowboy 8:49
[[Put an embargo on big gold sunglasses and they will crumble.]]
The policy of the Clinton and Bush administrations was to continue food aid so millions wouldn’t starve. Do you really think the Obama Administration will accept videos of millions starving when it is in its power to stop the suffering?
RW-(the original) 8:55
[[I’m really starting to rethink my entire position]]
I haven’t heard that phrase on this board very often!
Mrs. Godzilla 9:15
The source cited: “That is novel — at least compared to the nonsense normally spewed by the Bush administration every time Kim Jong-il decided to yank their chains. And in any case, if meaningless bluster isn’t your thing, there aren’t a whole lot of choices available:”
Cute rhetoric predictably at odds with the record. So Drezner’s idea is to not engage in discussions, not have multiparty talks (involve China and Russia) and not continue humanitarian aid, as the Bush Administration did?
This is a good idea? Wait: it’s meant to only sound good in a partisan kind of way, right?
Kamchak
May 27th, 2009
9:53 am
“And can anyone out there tell me why North Korea isn’t allowed to have nuclear weapons?”
Because they are godless communists lacking the restraint of those who worship Him. Either that, or they are Man U. fans deserving of nothing.
sd
May 27th, 2009
9:53 am
Seems like we’ve forgotten how to use propaganda to influence people. We should be dropping leaflets on those people that encourage them to rise up.
And in those Sharia Law countries where they execute a woman for showing too much ankle, we should be dropping a different leaflet on them. We should cover their cities in the nastiest pornography our great country has to offer. Seems to me that if pictures of naked orgies were ubiquitous in their countries, they’d have a little trouble keeping up with the oppression.
Paul
May 27th, 2009
9:57 am
sd
[[We should cover their cities in the nastiest pornography our great country has to offer. Seems to me that if pictures of naked orgies were ubiquitous in their countries, they’d have a little trouble keeping up with the oppression.]]
We already do – via the Internet. The result has been to increase the oppression. I mean, the enforcement of Islamic Truth and Purity.
Bosch
May 27th, 2009
9:58 am
Kamchak,
“Because they are godless communists lacking the restraint of those who worship Him”
Hahahahaha! Even though, uh, yeah, we’re the only one’s who have ever used one.
“Either that, or they are Man U. fans deserving of nothing”
Better idea.
Seriously, why can’t they have them? I mean, realy, what can we do about it? Nothing, except actually go to war with them, and I don’t think that’s gonna happen.
jewcowboy
May 27th, 2009
10:01 am
George American,
“The watered-down, 1/2-assed effort in Iraq was due to the congressional democrats and surrender monkeys lack of support for the military.”
Hmmm…and who was that Commander in Chief of military forces in 2003 when the invasion of Iraq took place? Take some responsibility, sheesh.
DB, Gwinnettian
May 27th, 2009
10:01 am
Since I’m not all that interested in speculating what we should do to contain NK, WARNING an utterly off-topic comment WARNING.
If you want a bit of fun, and would like have a chance to be published in an actual book that’s to be printed and sold this weekend, check this out, and (maybe) submit a contribution by close-of-business today.
It’s a collection of submitted first-lines of imaginary sequels to famous books.
Here’s a sample:
Tom opened the white envelope, and stared at the row of zeros, his rheumy eyes adjusting to the bright light shining on the glossy paper, and he realized that he had nothing, nothing was left of the treasure, that old Judge Thatcher had invested that money with that sneaky-eyed fellow with the fancy apartment, the houses in Palm Beach and France, the thousand dollar suit, and now it was gone, all gone, and there was nothing to be done but tell Huck, tell him that they were done for, and were going back, back again to live with Aunt Polly, and to once more paint that awful fence.
—From Hannibal, Oh Hannibal — Life on the Mississippi (sequel to Tom Sawyer by Mark Twain)