Liberty University bans campus Democratic club

ROTC?

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If the old-time Baptists fought against mixing church and state, don’t you think they would prefer there be no political clubs on campus? Democrat or Republican?

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“We are in no way attempting to stifle free speech”.Somehow that statement doesn’t ring true.

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Have a great Memorial Weekend everybody. Thank you troops for the freedoms we enjoy to disagree with each other with only verbal beheadings resulting.

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Under intense fire from the right, former secretary of state Colin L. Powell is preparing to answer his Republican critics this weekend in a television appearance that is likely to add fuel to his long-standing feud with top conservatives in his party.

That changed late in the 2008 presidential campaign, when he endorsed Barack Obama.-Urinal/ Republican Self Help Service

Maybe your boy is confused, no?

Cheney dryly commented: “I didn’t know he was still a Republican.”

Score one for the Dick.

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(Athens, Greece) Dozens of cars have been smashed, 14 people injured and 46 arrested in riots by Muslim migrants over the alleged defacing of a Koran by a policeman.

Obozo’s homeys.

eewwwww

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“and it blatantly reinforces the link between the Republican Party and the conservative evangelicals.”

What is wrong with this.?

There is a link between the Democrat party and the evangelical left.

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Jay, what’s good for the goose…It is sweet payback that the Democrats are getting a dose of their own medicine. Harvard and Columbia have been showing their rear ends for far too long and it is refreshing to hear a liberal journalist bemoaning the fact that a little university is striking back. Take heed, Bookman. You can poison the well once too often. How’s circulation at the AJC?

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Dedicated to one of America’s most repulsive christo-fascists and monied frauds ever – Jerry Falwell – and all of his groupies:

Lunatic fringe, I know you’re out there

You’re in hiding, And you hold your meetings

We can hear you coming, We know what you’re after

We’re wise to you this time, We won’t let you kill the laughter.

Lunatic fringe, in the twilight’s last gleaming

This is open season, but you won’t get too far

We know you’ve got to blame someone, For your own confusion

But we’re on guard this time, Against your final solution

We can hear you coming (We can hear you coming)

No you’re not going to win this time

We can hear the footsteps (We can hear the footsteps)

Way out along the walkway

Lunatic fringe, We know you’re out there

But in these new dark ages, There will still be light

An eye for an eye; Well before you go under…

Can you feel the resistance? Can you feel the thunder?

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They don’t want their flock to think for themselves. Watch Fox News, go to church three times a week, and leave the thinking to the people who pull the strings.

Sad, very sad. Democracy, in order to work effectively, needs people who can draw conclusions and opinions for themselves. Someone who is told how to think and what to accept and not accept is useless in this system.

If a student decides they don’t care for the Democratic Party principles, they can dismiss them themselves, that is great and I can respect that. What I can’t respect are the institutions who want to control how people think, what they can think, and how they should vote.

That is intolerance. Dictators work that way, not democracies.

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lwwmm7 wrote: Conservative speakers have been shouted down and denied a chance at colleges for many years now.

They aren’t legally kept from operating on campuses. The reason it looks like they are being denied is because the majority of people who can actually get into a four year institution know the conservatives want to CONTROL and DICTATE what their followers can and can’t think. They reject the conservatives, simple as that.

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I guess the Baptists should be as tolerant of dissenting views as are the posters on this blog.

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“They will probably wind up on Wall Street or in a Republican administration screwing our country up again like the last 8 years.”

Wall Street?–definitely. A Republican administration? More likely a Libertarian administration.

Libertarians–the new neo-conned.

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This is so cool! It’s like Virginia has it’s own little pocket of Stalin’s Soviet Union! Right there in LYNCHBURG! HAHAHA! HOW PERFECT!

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Here is some more of the sad reality of three or four involuntary tours in the voluntary military.

Generals Find Suicide a Frustrating Enemy

Let’s honor our fallen soldiers by putting an end to more needless deaths.

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“They will probably wind up on Wall Street or in a Republican administration screwing our country up again like the last 8 years.”

Actually, based on the last elections, the Wall Street crowd are overwhelmingly Democrats. But then again, I wouldn’t want facts to creep in on perfectly good stereotypes.

“Although the Democratic presidential hopeful has vowed to raise capital gains and corporate taxes, financial industry bigs have contributed almost twice as much to Obama as to GOP rival John McCain, a Daily News analysis of campaign records shows.”

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2008/06/30/2008-06-30_barack_obama_has_collected_nearly_twice_-2.html

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This is interesting to note.

Sun Myung Moon, founder of the Unification Church and the Washington Times, helped to financially stabilize the University through two of his organizations: News World Communications, which provided a $400,000 loan to the University at 6% interest; and the Women’s Federation for World Peace, which indirectly contributed $3.5 million toward the school’s debt.[42] Liberty University spokesman Mark DeMoss said the school was not aware of News World’s connection to Moon when it obtained the loan through a broker. “I’m not going to be pious and tell you we would have turned it down,” DeMoss said. “Because it was a business transaction, we probably would have moved forward even if Dr. Falwell or somebody in the organization knew who News World Communications was.”[42] Liberty University founder Jerry Falwell stated that the source of the funds does not influence his ministry, Stating: “If the American Atheists Society or Saddam Hussein himself ever sent an unrestricted gift to any of my ministries, be assured I will operate on Billy Sunday’s philosophy: The Devil’s had it long enough, and quickly cash the check.”[43]

Ron Godwin, now Vice Chancellor at Liberty University, was previously employed under Rev. Moon as Vice President of the Washington Times.[44]

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Conservatives not being heard! Give me a break. Even at Obama’s alma mater, the conserves thought that he was more interested in hearing their views than the libs. Obviously, by listening to both or all sides, Obama could shape his opinions and policies. Lord help us (I thought that this was applicable due to Liberty U (what a joke for a name).

I also thought that what Glenn Beck said the other day. “I don’t do any fact checks on what info/opinion I express. I’m an entertainer.” This is very apparent by the crap he puts out. So, he can slander anyone, if he desires? He should have a disclaimer for his show since it is on Fox News.

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Road Scholar –

Glenn Beck is a partisan fool, but he is no different than Olbermann or Maddow.

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BD,

I switched to Democrat in 2004 to keep Cynthia McKinney out…but stayed Republican last year and sure didn’t vote for Reed. Did vote for Obama, though.

Private schools have a right to do anything they want. That’s been going on for years, with Oliver North banned from Ivy League campuses and Ahmadinejad welcomed. Both liberal and conservative campuses have a bad record. So the Liberty decision isn’t a surprise, it’s just another disappointment.

Mike, did you notice that the Southern Baptists came out against torture last week? Maybe the fundamentalists are getting the message that all our rights are at risk if we start cheating on the Constitution for a little protection.

“He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither.”

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Kamchak wrote-
Libertarians–the new neo-conned.

Sorry dude- Never happen. Libertarians are the party of superior intelligence. Conning happens the the R&D sheeple.

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Linville –

“Mike, did you notice that the Southern Baptists came out against torture last week? Maybe the fundamentalists are getting the message that all our rights are at risk if we start cheating on the Constitution for a little protection. ”

Sure did, but I didn’t see folks complaining about Baptists “imposing their morals on us” or abrogating “separation of church and state matters” then.

Besides, Obama has solved the torture issue just fine. He is shipping them to Pakistan and Middle East countries to be tortured by them:

“The United States is now relying heavily on foreign intelligence services to capture, interrogate and detain all but the highest-level terrorist suspects seized outside the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan, according to current and former American government officials.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/24/world/24intel.html?hp

Between this and the notion that indefinitely detaining terrorism suspects in SuperMax prisons instead of Gitmo, it is clear that the change that Obama is bringing is window dressing and doesn’t really address the moral and legal issues surrounding these matters.

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As I noted earlier, I was surprised the thought police at Falwelll State allowed them in the first place.

But after researching a bit I found the Dems were ONLY allowed if they were anti-abortion and anti-sodomite.

But it turns out, even that wasn’t enough.

Mark Hine, the vice president of student affairs, claims that the Democratic Party violates school principles and includes their positions on “abortion, socialism, and the agenda of lesbians, gays, bisexuals and transgenders.”

Ironic that the name is Liberty University.

A name change seems in order.

Liberty for Some University?

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jt

Sorry dude, that’s the same thing the Goldwater Republicans said.

Meet the new boss–same as the old boss.

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AmVet –

“Liberty for Some University?”

Liberty for any who choose to attend knowing full well where the school is coming from. As opposed to most schools that are not honest about their political stances.

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There are dems in that cult?

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Mike, you type faster than I!

No, they just want to leave the Union!

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I wonder what WHINSEC’s political stance is. Somehow, I doubt they allow any Democrats to speak out about their little place.

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Regarding Maddow and Olbermann,

You conservatives should watch some of their shows over the past two weeks. You will see something you aren’t used to and it might scare you. Two openly liberal, Obama-supporting prime time news talkng heads who are admonishing Obama, Pelosi, and Reid!

OMG! You see, it’s ok to speak out against things you don’t like. Let’s see Fox News talking heads stand up and point out their disagreements with Republicans? You know Hannity won’t do it cause he’s a wholly-owned subsidiary of the Republican Party (I stole that line from Senator Al Frankin)

How about the Democrats denying Obama his funds for Gitmo? OMG!

In eight years the Republicans never had the nads to stand up to the Bush administration – gave em everything they wanted. OMG! How pathetic.

Olberman and Maddow are patriots – they speak out against things they don’t like – even when it happens in their own party! Give it a try Repubs, it’s how democracy works. Otherwise, if we are all just mindless followers, Democracy doesn’t work.

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Oh my, a democrat club banned????? Oh, the injustice! The outrage!!

Maybe they should call upon Dr. JoAnn Watson, serving her first full term as a Member of the Detroit City Council, and politician extraordinaire, for advice. After all, Watson knows how to evade paying taxes, and these youg club members could use the extra cash to fight the university.

Council Member Watson earned a Journalism Degree from the University of Michigan, where she was active with the peace and justice movement. Currently, she is a board member with:ACLU, NAACP, Vice-President of the Detroit Wayne County Health Authority, Every Church a Peace Church, and SEMCOG. Watson is the mother of four and has garnered more than 800 awards, including an Honorary Doctorate. She holds Lifetime Achievement Awards from the YWCA, the NAACP, the Detroit Human Rights Commission, the SCLC, and a National Award from the National Conference of Negro Women. She has authored hundreds of columns, article, and books including: Should America Pay? The ABC’s of School Finance, Reparations Ray Jenkins’ 40-year quest for 40 acres and a Mule and an urban agenda, which she presented to Presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama in 2008.

Oh, the tax thing you ask?

Watson has paid $68 in property taxes this year because city records say her home doesn’t exist.

Watson told the Detroit Free Press she thought the steep drop in property taxes was a result of tornado damage. She doesn’t recall when the tornado struck, however, saying it might have been 1993 or 2002.

Yeah, tornadoes are reported in Michigan on a par with Oklahoma and Alabama, I’ll bet.

More dopes with chains in that bastion of freedom city, Detroit.

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BDA- You were comparing christian FUNDAMENTALISTS, not Catholics.

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Let’s see, Liberty University is a PRIVATE BAPTIST university founded by Jerry Falwell. All they are saying is that they will not sanction a group that promotes a social agenda that is in conflict with that of the university.

Good for them.

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College campuses have one thing that remains constant: administrators snuff out conservative ideas. How else to explain, for the 16th year in a row, liberal speakers dominating the list of graduation ceremonies? It’s worth repeating. For the past 16 years—the time period Young America’s Foundation has been keeping tabs—a disproportionate number of commencement speakers at our nation’s top colleges and universities have been liberal ideologues, big donors to liberal causes, and members of the “drive-by” media.

Colleges and university administrators love to boast about how “diverse” their institutions are, from diversity pledges, diversity deans, diversity classes, to diverse student bodies. But when it comes to diverse viewpoints, well, these schools say no thanks. Such imbalance is especially shameful at a time when students demonstrate a strong desire to see more conservatives on campus. John Ashcroft, Ann Coulter, Ben Stein, Chuck Norris, and Michelle Malkin all drew thousands of students and standing-room only crowds at several colleges and universities this past year.

Unfortunately, commencement ceremonies once again look like another dose of leftist indoctrination rather than a fresh start for the class of 2009.

125 liberals to 5 conservatives. By all means let’s whine about the injustice at Liberty U.

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Liberty University needs to do the Lords work without distractions. Right now they are doing much needed research. Our Lord is about to return and we need to be prepared.

For instance when he returns we need to determine the market value of his miracles so that we can charge for them accordingly. So far our research has come up with a miracle price plan.

Returning sight to a blind man……$1,000,000.00

Pulling fish out of a basket…..$10,000.00

Turning water into wine….(Ooops, we have banned this. Sorry Jesus.)

Raising the dead….$500,000,000.00

All major insurance plans accepted. MC, Visa and Amex too.

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RW

You say:

“That’s true up to the point that you allow the speaker to have their say and rebut the message, but it’s absurd to extend that rational to shouting down a speaker to prevent their message from ever being delivered in the first place.”

In a utopian world, I couldn’t agree more. However, I think pragmatism is called for.

When Lawrence O’Donnell or Ed Schultz or Chris Matthews or anybody else for that matter shouts down Michelle Malkin, Glenn Beck or Jonah Goldberg I figure it’s fair n’ square.

Being bullied by an increasingly small albeit well-funded and organized, faux grassroots movement will not be tolerated any longer.
If our voices are raised it is simply to insure that they are heard over
the din.

It’s traditional American stuff dude.

Cleverly documented here in musical comedy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HD1x_kZRQQ

That said, I won’t be signing any petitions to ban young Republicans from Notre Dame, Boston College, Holy Cross, DePaul…..

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“Maddow and Oberman (sp) are partisan, but they do their research.”

Oh please. Beck’s and Limbaugh’s followers say the same thing. There is no difference between this group of demagogues.

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“Olberman and Maddow are patriots – they speak out against things they don’t like – even when it happens in their own party! ”

So do Limbaugh and Beck. Doesn’t mean that they aren’t all partisan blowhards who make their living off of divisive partisan rhetoric.

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DannyX –

“God, please bless those who start thy wars that kill 100,000’s of innocent civilians”

Yes it is much more moral to maintain a sanctions regime that the UN claims resulted in the death of hundreds of thousands of Iraq children.

Also, Obama was a supporter of the Afghan War from the beginning. Last I looked, he is not a Republican.

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Bosch –

Your last post has nothing to do with what was being discussed, but at least you got the chance to mock those who don’t share your spiritual views. Liberal tolerance and all that.

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mike,

Then read what I just typed at 11:42. No, it’s real easy to throw out “your intolerant” – it’s another thing to it actually be the case.

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It is amusing that those who want to criticize Liberty for not being tolerant of other views are the same folks who are demonstrating their own intolerance for others views.

I don’t see much difference.

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Many campuses are intellectual versions of one-party nations — except such nations usually have the merit, such as it is, of candor about their ideological monopolies. In contrast, American campuses have more insistently proclaimed their commitment to diversity as they have become more intellectually monochrome.

They do indeed cultivate diversity — in race, skin color, ethnicity, sexual preference. In everything but thought.

Maybe Liberty is just getting the message but they missed the part where your one-party nation/campus had to be liberals.

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How are you this fine Sunday morning, Bosch? Trying to tolerate the intolerable?

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Ibuprofen. The true friend of the labor party.

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Wouldnt it be a hoot if the antichrist these guys are always hooting about turned out to be an evangelical christian leader. After all, the book of revelations states that the antichrist will attempt to link a political ideology (liberty is gods gift to mankind) now insisting that the idea of “coercive democrary” as an absolute good, an economic system (the religious right is always yakking about “free market economics” and insisting that it be spread to all corners of the earth) and finally a form of christianity that has completely stripped the religion of the social gospel and focuses totally on condition of the individuals soul and its invariable insistance in “justification by faith alone” stripping out all of the sections of the old and new testements that insist that “good works” are the means by which ones faith can be determined to be true or false. One world superpower, which insists it is a Christian nation, and which has been spreading its own, single system of economics around the world by force or economic co-ercion….Sounds pretty antichristy to me.

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Bosch,

I hope those suicide bombers get their forty virgins too. As Dunham said (paraphrasing), there was nothing said about them being of the opposite sex. hehehehe

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Linville,

Thank you for letting us all know how we all think this morning.

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Bosch

Blues up 1-nil at 2nd min. 2nd.half

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Well, Bosch. You are correct. Seventy-two same-sex virgins might be considered a good place by some bombers. It does depend on one’s personal preferences.

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Kamchak,

I’m watching Man U and Hull. What channel are you watching?

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This is amusing. Bill Maher seems to think that it is liberals who are supressing free speech on campuses:

“I’m a free speech person. And I would say especially on campuses in the last 10 or 15 years, the repression of speech has come more from the left.”

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2009/05/24/maher-trashes-liberals-they-object-they-know-what-theyre-objecting

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Bosch

Live text courtesy of BBC Sport. Sunderland equali(s)zed six minutes later.

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Bosch –

“No, I don’t.”

Oh sure you do. You just told us about what fundamentalists think heaven will be like.

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Off topic….but I honestly cannot peg Redneck Convert.

I guess you could take him at face value, and say he’s just another confused Christian fundamentalist. But then he could be a liberal who has mastered the use of sarcasm. I prefer to see him as the latter, which would make him some kind of southern-fried genius, as opposed to the former, which would make him an ignorant, backwoods, bible-thumper.

Either way, keep ‘em coming. You get my vote for most entertaining blogger.

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The thing I’ve learned from reading all this is that we’re all equal but some view themselves as more equal than others because their views are superior.

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RW –

Fair enough, but I did say “most” not “all”.

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BDAtlanta–and Lush Bimbo, while not a subsidiary of the Repub party, is a subdivision (at least in size, or maybe a zip code) of that same party.

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mike,

I know you said “most” but that really indicts everyone and no one simultaneously.

Gotta run, have a great day everyone.

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Again, I gotta say that it is amusing that those who like to paint Christians as intolerant are pretty consistently the most intolerant people on this blog.

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Hillbilly@ 12:34 You forgot to mention which school they attended also!

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Bosch, I believe that colleges that violate the EEOC rules ARE subject to losing federal aid for their students. Likewise, colleges that are unaccredited cannot have students receiving federal aid (see local example). I think Oral Roberts U is not considered a college available for students on federal aid, for example. Liberty has been skirting by for some time. While the aid does follow the student, the student cannot take it to Uncle Buddy’s Truck Driving School, for example. There are certain minimum legal standards.

I have been on college campuses pursuing degrees over the years where the Gay/Lesbian groups’ right to meet have been debated, and legally the school is supposed to afford groups the same perks it offers other, more mainstream groups, such as YD or YR.

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Bosch

1-nil against Hull??? Did Sir Alex have the second team on the field?

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catlady,

Schools can fund whatever groups they want or deny that funding. What’s dangerous for a college/university to do is to elaborate on why they are not funding such a group – based on “moral” reasons instead of denying them on a lack of funds, or that the group is not viable or worth the cost, or goes against their mission statement. That opens up a case for EEOC standards to be challenged and makes them more vulnerable to expensive lawsuits. Like I mentioned earlier, if Liberty U stated that they weren’t funding that group because it wasn’t cost effective and not enough participation by students to keep it up and running, there intentions wouldn’t be questionable – especially a private school – they have more leeway in these situations.

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Bosch:

Hehehehe. Most fundamentalist Christian leaders do want to leave the Union and go to a place where the streets are lined with gold, angels sing on the street corners, and some guy named God sits on a throne on a gold throne somewhere.”

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or these

christo-fascists, Lunatic fringe…. Timothy McVeigh would have been so proud….This is just another example of the American Taliban (read far right
Christians)…. Hillary made the American taliban’s heads explode

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Bosch:

We disagree; fair enough.

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I’ve read this blog for a few years and have heard very little bad said about Redneck Convert until Mike came along.Just an observation.

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‘Again, I gotta say that it is amusing that those who like to paint Christians as intolerant are pretty consistently the most intolerant people on this blog.’
Pathetic. Unable to handle the return of serve, the rightwing mantra has become this.
bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
Drop back and regroup if you have to, but don’t cry about being outdone at your own game.
bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. Pathetic.

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Do you suppose it is because socialists will not work and expect the government (we working taxpayers) to keep them up?

Unemployment 20% Higher in Democrat Strongholds

Unemployment in April remained 20 percent higher in states won by Democratic candidate Barack Obama in last fall’s presidential election than in states won by Republican candidate John McCain, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics released yesterday. Nationwide, the unemployment rate went from 8.5 percent in March to 8.9 percent in April. WND previously reported that if unemployment numbers in the states won by Obama do not begin improving soon, the Democratic Party may face the prospect of 2010 mid-term election losses in both governor races and in Congress. A national telephone survey conducted by Rasmussen Reports has found…

http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.printable&pageId=98951

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Why is evangelicals only associated with white republicans?
Isn’t the Revered Jerimiah Wright an evangelical?

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Fawell didn’t just take money from Moon’s “church.” Falwell traveled to Uruguay and spoke at an event promoting Moon’s youth gigging front group and appeared in support of Moon at other events also. Let me remind you that Moon claims Jesus was a failure who needed Moon to fulfill His mission and Moon now claims that Jesus serves his dead son in heaven. Moon claims his words are God’s.

Fawell’s buddy, Tim LaHaye, has also taken Moon’s money and promoted his “messianic” mission. It isn’t just that Fawell and LaHaye are/were partisan politically but that they do so under a cloak of religion. There associations with and promotion of Moon, clearly expose them as two of the most discernment-free “ministers” in history.

BTW, the money Moon uses to fund these “Christian” preachers – mostly comes from Japan, the primary source of Moon’s cash and where his “church” has been found guilty of swindling widows out of hundreds of millions, likely billions, of dollars. Find some details here: http://tinyurl.com/5aodgn

It isn’t just Falwell and LaHaye who take the old devil’s money, Moon has outspent anyone funding the right in America over the last 30 years. Billions. No one, no one has outspent him pushing and molding today’s conservative movement. No one, and the right moans about that piker Soros. What a bunch of uninformed hypocrites. Moon spent billions and he did so successfully bringing his “vision” of a right wing, theocratic, science-free, homophobic and authoritarian Republican Party/conservative movement into being.

Moon’s is the same organization that the first editor of the Washington Times said was working to subvert our political system and that anyone who takes his money and then claims it was OK because they were not proselytized doesn’t have a clue how they were being used and conned into helping Moon.

see him say it here http://tinyurl.com/pjrfwe

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Herm- Thank you for seeing that. As a private college, they can ban any one that they like, for any reason, but their hypocrisy in accepting “the devils money” is beyond the pale.

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On Memorial day weekend in the United States of America, two dunce liberals go to China to pay tribute to some cut throat communists, I’ve seen it all now-

Pelosi is scheduled to attend a clean energy forum in Beijing on Tuesday along with Senator John Kerry, the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Other details of her itinerary were not immediately known.

Kerry on Sunday arrived in Xi’an, the capital of the northern province of Shaanxi, where he was holding official meetings and visiting the country’s famed Terracotta Warriors, Stevenson said.

What a couple of bozo’s.

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Whine too funny!!! ——-> Score one for the Dick.

You forgot to add head at the end of that sentence!!!

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Oh, and, for what it’s worth, nobody is a bigger socialist than Jesus.

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My 3:45 seems to have disppeared. Anyone understand why the bugs are still in this “system”, or is there…a conspiracy?

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It’s gremlin censors, catlady. They do it just for meanness.

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“Is there anyone out there who believes we SHOULDN’T stand up and fight the terrorists? If so let me know so I’ll know to skip past your posts.”

There is fighting dumb and then there is fighting smart. Of course fighting dumb relies of brute force, rather than the intelligent direct targeting of your the enemy, without destroying so many innocent people that you provide both a haven, and support for that enemy.

What we have done in Pakistan has virtually played into the hands of Al Qaeda and the Taliban. The form of Islam that is most widely practiced in Pakistan, is a very peacey, lovey sort or religion, because of the influences on it that came out of India…both Buddhism and Hinduism had a large role to play on the sort of Islam that developed in Pakistan. Pakistan has had its own “summer of love” similar to what happened in Haight Ashbury in the 1960’s, and it never really went away,

However a lot of people are getting pissed off as an economy that was growing, almost as fast as the one in India, has been almost completely destroyed by the American influence in that nation due to Afghanistan to the west of it. Pakistan’s homespun version of Islam is extremely different from the conservative and fundamentalist version that is practiced in Saudi Arabia, is extremely tolerant, involves a lot of music and dancing in its practice and as a result of the American presence in the region is losing a lot of traction as a lot of people start rethinking the Taliban and Al Qaeda assertions that the west has launched another crusade against Islam. The Taliban has been destroying the centuries old tombs and religious house of worship that have grown up around the places associated with Sufi mystic preachers.

In 2007, the Rand corporation recommended that the United States attempt to reach out and reinforce the moderate Sufism practiced in Pakistan as a foil against the religious conservatism of those who are essentially attempting to superimpose a very foreign form of Islam in Pakistan. The interpretation of the Talban and al Qaeda is as foreign to Pakistani Muslims as Christianity is to them. Even as the Taliban destroys the most sacred shrines of their religion, the Pakistanis do not rise up against them, but rather blame the United States for them even being in Pakistan to begin with.

Just as the United States was able to counter the Soviet nuclear aresenals with smaller and more accurate weaponry, the same idea applies to the use of less brute force in that region of the world. Dozens of times the United States has targetted sites and killed dozens or hundreds of innocent people attending weddings or religious functions, stating that intelligence said that Bin Laden or Ayman Al Zawahiri were going to be there. Problem is that given the religious practices of the Pakistanis, their rather tolerant and totally non austere practices, there is no way in hell that any member of the Taliban or Al Qaeda would be seen in such a place. More likely that the Taliban and Al Qaeda planted this information on their own, so Americans would target innocent Pakistanis and so outrage the general public over America’s support of dictatorial leaders, or outright attacks within Pakistan proper:

Pakistan’s Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi, the descendant of a famous mystic and the keeper of his shrine, speaks often of the need to promote Sufism over extremism. But there has been little sign yet of a sustained effort by the government to reach out to the Sufis as allies or highlight how far out of step the extremists are with the country’s religious mainstream.

“If you want to understand the inclusiveness and tolerance of Islam, you have to visit the shrines of Sufis,” Qureshi said. “I believe that if you want to counter terrorism in long term, the strongest weapon is not the Kalashnikov, it is education, it is a changing of hearts and minds.”

Even with their shrines under attack, Sufis are not rising against the militants or even loudly criticizing them.

Some of this silence is attributed to fear. The Taliban are known to terrorize and kill opponents. Many people also complain that the security forces would not support them if they put their necks on the line.

Another reason is that for many ordinary Pakistanis, anger at the Taliban is offset by anger at the U.S. for wars in Afghanistan and Iraq that many here view as directed against Muslims. Experts also note the Taliban are primarily a political movement, not a religious one, despite how they may present their struggle.

http://www2.journalnow.com/content/2009/may/24/pakistans-moderate-islam-is-under-fire/news/

As usual the Republican methods of using blunt force, rather than delicate surgery to remove the tumor of extremist Islam, is causing more harm than good.

The “Qureshi” mentioned above is the descendant of one of Pakistans greatest Sufi mystics, one of the creators of Pakistan’s tolerant, mystical form of Islam. He is also a minister in the current Pakistani government.

We do not even have to fight the Taliban or Al Qaeda. Muslims would do it themselves if Bush had not fallen into the trap Bin Laden set for him. Attacking the United States on 9/11 was not the purpose of Al Qaeda. Goading the United States into attacking the Muslim world, by attempting to take over countries like Iraq and Afghanistan, and attempting to superimpose western ideas onto these countries was the goal, and largely it has been accomplished. All Bin Laden needed to do was something that would result in Western, nomininally Christian troops, occupying nations that had Muslim majority populations. This, he accomplished.

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Karma is best served warm! Liberty is a start. In chorus now…..Whine, whine, whine.

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The key to premium yard bird is thoroughly slow cooking it at 275 degrees, indirect heat, Weber gas grill, for at least 90 minutes.

Any old sauce will do.

Excellent!

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Debbie @ 3:32

I had exactly the same thought.Of course I’m too demure to to send it in as a post.And too lazy.

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I kinda wish there were a spam filter for posts that complain about their posts being eaten for ideological reasons.

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Isn’t that the same logic as the Ivies keeping ROTC off campus? I never hear the journalist commenting harshly upon those schools! Do you?

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DB –

“Still waiting for an example–any example–of a Republican club being disowned by a university, anywhere, while the Democratic club is allowed to continue.”

Well, it doesn’t rise to the level of the Liberty example but:

“WHEN CONSERVATIVE columnist Don Feder spoke at UMass-Amherst last month, his speech was cut short by a large group of students whose noisy and disruptive antics drove Feder off the lectern midway through his speech. As one UMass student wrote after the event, “I am embarrassed of the way my fellow classmates have chosen to express their discontent.” She should be – but she should also know that she is not the only one who is due for some embarrassment.

America’s campuses are seeing a growing movement by students to shut off debate by organized groups and silence speakers with whom they disagree. Rather than engage in the give-and-take that should be characteristic of the university as a “marketplace of ideas,” these students have decided that opposing views don’t even bear hearing. And all too often they are aided by administrators whose policies reward hecklers rather than students who wish to engage in civil debate and dialogue.

UMass is one of those campuses. After word got out that students were planning to protest Feder’s speech, the UMass-Amherst Police Department pressured Feder’s hosts, the Republican Club, into paying nearly three times as much in security costs for the event as they had planned. Of course, the student hecklers disrupted the event anyway with no interference by the police.

Feder’s hecklers were thereby handed a double victory by the university – not only did they manage to silence Feder, but they also succeeded in forcing their political enemies on campus to pay a huge security bill for little return. This tactic was so successful it’s hard to imagine that the same UMass students won’t do it again, and it’s unlikely that the lesson has been lost on students who sympathize with Feder.”

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2009/04/09/why_no_one_should_be_silenced_on_campus/

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I like Redneck Convert.

His sarcastic manner is well disguised and his play on words is, well, admirable. I enjoy reading him and trying to figure out what he really means, because many times his slant is much like a blast of buckshot; it scatters out at first, but something always finds the target.

He’s cool.

I, on the other hand, deploy the more straightforward approach, knocking through the crap right from the start, and use sarcasm some, but mostly pulverizing the prey with facts and statements, backed up, with the intention of making the victim squirm with anger and/or fear. It’s sort of like wounding the bleating animal, then standing with a foot on its neck while I openly deride it before putting it away.

The wounded bleat, curse, and hurl vile insults, but the end result is always the same. They are done, cooked in their own stupidity and blind partisanship. Then I toss them into my own creation, “The Irrelevant Pool”, occupancy unlimited.

I hope everyone enjoys their long weekend, and uses it to not only think about what the holiday means, but what and how our service men and women all over the world are going to be affected by the lack of leadership we have now, from a President who bows to foreigners, to a Speaker who openly and defiantly attacks and lies about our intelligence gathering community, the one part in the cog of our safety net, the military, that we simply cannot continue to function without.

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Didn’t Jay ban and kick off a poster who used to act like an Islamic extreamist?

Basically the guy acted like he was muslim and then made comments of satire and sarcasm, but was kicked off by Jay for I believe something along the lines of racism?

I may be wrong but if I am not can anyone tell me why that poet was kicked off?

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Can we all agree that the software that powers this blog is atrocious?

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Yeah mike, I have spoken to a fundamentalist Christian – I talk to my mom at least once a week. My mother-in-law lives with me and she talks about those streets of gold all the time, and on Sunday mornings she watches all those church shows and I hear that spoken quite often blarring from the TV in her room (she’s hard of hearing, so she turns it up real loud – maybe she’s worried about my soul and wants me to hear it).

I wish Hillbilly Deluxe was still here. I just took a hard core nap and I had a dream about something that was relevant to our prejudice vs. intolerance discussion.

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Some parents of South Cobb High seniors were unable to attend Saturday’s graduation at Roswell Street Baptist Church in Marietta because the sanctuary was filled to capacity.

The culprit: counterfeit tickets.

Once again, the liberal AJC has a problem with unregulated free market?

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfIUZaThRk4&feature=related

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mike,

Nope, not at all. You asked me if I had ever talked to one, and I mentioned two. I grew up in a fundamentalist church, and I talked to the folks there all the time. I still talk to some of them.

And nice of you to put words in my mouth, that I’ve never spoken nor even written – contempt? Nope, considering I’m a Christian myself, and my immediate family, I have no contempt for any of them, or myself – I rather like all of us – we’re a good bunch of folks.

Lime popsicles are the best, but grape ones, I’ve found to be rather delicious, do you agree?

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mike,

And maybe you missed the part of my post where I wrote where I hear that blarring from the church shows on the TV in my mom-in-law’s room.

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Bosch –

No I didn’t miss that at all. It really doesn’t have much to do with anything though.

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catlady –

I actually worked for Cox Interactive years ago and the forum software we used then was much better than this current system.

The fact that the AJC can’t get basic technology like blogging software to function probably definitely taints their pundits groaning about the incompetence of others.

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Yeah Andy,

Powell and Ridge are the only two gop to stand up against a radio entertainer and the worst VP in history.

The gop are weaker than the spineless dems.

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getalife –

You claim that the Iraq War was an attempt to intentionally exterminate all Iraqis. How can you applaud Powell when he refuses to condemn the genocide that you claim?

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Bosch –

Well, how about answering my question as to what the “Hehehehe” intro to your comment was supposed to mean if it was not mockery?

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getalife –

“He was man enough to admit it was a mistake and got punked by the intell.”

So you are saying that Powell said that he was intentionally deceived?

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duh mike.

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mike,

Oh, that was in the post that got dropped, sorry. When I type “hehehehehe” in front of something it is not meant as mockery, it is meant that what follows is an attempt at humor. And my beliefs on Christianity, or more specific, fundamentalist Christianity, does not stem from family disputes, for I love my mother (my mother-in-law? welllllll…… that’s another story). I grew up in a fundamentalist church, which resulted in several years of childhood therapy based on some rather unpleasant personal experiences I endured. I left the “church” for many years and became rather hardened towards all organized religion based on my experiences. But, alas, I met the other Bosch (who is a seminary graduate) and was convinced rather reluctantly to go to another church and try another “branch” of Christianity – which has really helped me grow as a person. Man, what people do for love. But it worked for me. So that’s a good thing.

That bacon sandwich was delicious (it was no grape popsicle, but close), and my Heineken is also quite good. So, do you have anything specific you’d like to ask about my spiritual belief system? I’m really no good right now for a complete “Bosch’s Views on Christianity” manifesto.

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Whatever mike.

They got punked.

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هم برابرند، همه دارای اندیشه و وجدان hehehehehe who is??/

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Whiner –

Oh please. McCain, Ridge and Powell are all war heroes and dedicated public servants. Slandering them because they don’t hew to your narrow views is pathetic.

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getalife –

“Andy chose chicken hawks over a General on Memorial Day”

Is Obama a chicken hawk too?

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mike,

He was too young to cut and run from Vietnam like Andy’s losers.

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mike,

Oh, and right on with your 7:23 post.

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Andy,

Colin Powell has defended our nation – much more honorably than Dick Cheney.

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getalife –

“He was too young to cut and run from Vietnam like Andy’s losers.”

Well, the general definition of chicken hawk is not specific to Viet Nam. Even if it was, Biden would have “cut and run” from Viet Nam, as he had as many deferments as Cheney.

Chicken hawk is a slander meaning that one supports war, but never served. Obama was a strong supporter of the Afghan War but never served. Hence, he would be a chicken hawk if anyone is.

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Bosch- What specifically does cap and trade mean?

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Whiner –

“Using your simple logic, isn’t defending the United States the most honorable thing you can do? When do I get my medal?’

Logic doesn’t get any simpler than yours.

Well, you might get a medal if you get shot down in a war and get held as a POW for years and turn down opportunities to go home to keep the “first in, first out” code.

Or you might get a medal if you are wounded in a foreign war and later lead the most overwhelming victory in American military history.

Or you might perform in a foreign war and perform with such valor that you get a Bronze Star.

They don’t give out medals for calling people names on blogs. When they do, I’ll be the first to nominate you.

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Bosch –

“He’s repairing it after Bush and Cheney were let loose to destroy it.”

Come on now. Powell was right there with the decision to invade Iraq, build Gitmo and waterboard.

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mikey- I already have several medals from the army, answer the question.

Bosch- I knew that already.

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mike,

Yes, I know. And for many years I could not see how he could look at himself in the mirror, good men make mistakes and are willing to admit, which Powell has all but said. It takes a man of honor to admit his mistakes – I think Powell has demonstrated that. Don’t ask for specifics right now as I’ve just finished my second Heineken.

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Andy,

Then why ask? And what does that have to do with the price of tea in China or anything else we are discussing? So, without googling, what is the price of tea in China these days, and what does that have to do with Colin Powell? Does he drink Chinese tea? Does he drink tea at all? Huh Andy?

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Bosch,

I was pretty shocked to hear that Powell still considers himself a Republican too and I sure can’t see how thinking that would sicken anyone. Consider that the Republican nominee was one of his fellow moderates and a fellow war hero to boot. He didn’t just choose to withhold support, he publicly endorsed and campaigned for McCain’s opponent.

How big can Powell’s Republican “big tent” be if it has no room for McCain? It surely can’t have room for social conservatives, pro lifers or the religious right. Considering his continued support for Obamanomics his tent can’t even have room for fiscal conservatives. Why would anybody think he considers himself a Republican?

It kind of seems to me like the same thing as Zell Miller still considering himself a Democrat. He might, but nobody else does.

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Bosch –

“Getalife is much more than that. He will admit when the Dems are stupid. Andy won’t admit when the GOP is stupid.”

I don’t know about that. getalife responds to every time he is proven wrong with “whatever” and Whiner is bashing Republicans right above. I stand by my original statement

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mikey- OK, let me simplify the question so that you won’t have such a hard time understanding it- You laud McCain, Ridge and Powell for defending the country but yet they want to reach up to Obozo who is destroying it. What is more important, the country or the people who defended it?

Bosch- People like you are the biggest danger to the United States that this country has ever faced. Don’t be disheartened by that, there are a lot of you. Politicians can now say one thing, making you feel happy and delighted inside, but then they do something totally different. You blabber on in your ignorance with out checking the first fact, sorry to be so blunt. Your first clue, the most obvious one at that, why do democrats have to create phrases and names for every idea they have, are they afraid of people learning the truth? You are an example of that. Jim Jones, Pol Pot, Hitler all did the same exact thing.

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mike,

Again, I don’t support the two corrupt parties.

Andy is a con hack.

There is a huge difference, don’t ya think?

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getalife –

Actually Whiner is bashing three Republicans right here. I’ve never seen you do anything but make silly statements like accusing Bush of starting the Iraq War with the explicit purpose of genocide.

You guys are equally silly.

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Whiner –

” OK, let me simplify the question so that you won’t have such a hard time understanding it- You laud McCain, Ridge and Powell for defending the country but yet they want to reach up to Obozo who is destroying it. What is more important, the country or the people who defended it?”

Please. Your arguments are all too easy to understand.

First of all, McCain, Ridge and Powell deserve to be lauded. They are genuine war heroes and public servants.

Second, your belief that Obama is trying to destroy the country is as warped as those who made the same claim about Bush. Just because you feel that way doesn’t make it a fact.

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mike,

There’s a rather large distinction between someone saying “Obama is destroying the country” and your changing it to “trying to destroy the country.”

The word “trying” makes your argument into a strawman in this case because you inject motive into Andy’s assertion where motive didn’t exist in the question he posed to you and that you quoted back to him.

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Oh, the best movie of all cinematic history is on right now: Star Wars! Let’s get the light sabers and popcorn, and more Heineken ready!!!!

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Bosch,

I strongly disagree that Obama is spending to fix things rather than to expand them. I also think it’s highly unlikely that he won’t win reelection, but it’s very likely he’ll have to govern with a Republican Congress in his second term.

I also say a prayer for his continued good health every single day that Joe Biden is next in line.

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…and wouldn’t we be having some interesting conversations if the Dems had nominated Hillary! Odds are that she’d have won.

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Linville,

McCain seemed out of place when campaigning because he was trying to pretend he was a conservative, but we’ve seen others that change completely and then return to normal after they lose. Bob Dole comes to mind and I often wonder if things might not have been different if he had let his sense of humor come through when campaigning. He also needed to ditch that weird third person thing and I suspect it would have just been a closer election that he still lost.

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Dusty:

My post around 3:00 also disappeared.

There was a time when I would have found it frustrating. Now I just find it to be par for the course.

Couldn’t post but took a moment to read. Then I run across this from Bosch:

That will make for a very boring blog. and thought…

does this guy have a clue as to how boring HE is?

Reading him is like watching the same movie over and over.

It’s like watching somebody sort their sock drawer.

Like watching mold grow.

Like watch……..zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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Clyde, I gotta wonder how somebody could vote Hillary but not Obama. Hillary is baggage carrying baggage. What would make you vote McCain against Obama, Hillary against McCain?

RW–Agree on Dole.

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I have a feeling that Hillary Clinton is a lot more conservative in her thinking than people would like to admit.Obama certainly isn’t.McCain is a moderate.I don’t believe there’s much difference between him and Hillary.Keep in mind that Hillary campaigned for Goldwater in her younger days.

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“Goldwater is remembered for saying, in his speech accepting the Republican nomination for president in 1964, “Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice … and moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.”

I doubt Hillary would cover up torture after they impeached her husband for lying about a bj.

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Clyde,

Hillary is the perfect choice to polarize the country.

I don’t agree that she’s so moderate. Remember, her goal in hubby’s administration was to nationalize medecine.

On the other hand I don’t think Obama is as left wing as people think. Liberals seem pretty disappointed with some of the decisions he’s made–on don’t ask-don’t tell, torture pictures, etc. He seems to want to govern from the center.

By the way, I don’t think Hillary or any other candidate would have pressed criminal charges against a former pres or vp. The precedent it would set is too scary for any of them to face–rule the country for a few years, make a mistake or two, and get hit with one of our “independent inquiries” that can only end in misery. The Bush administration made some bad mistakes. We just have to fix them. Let’s not set a precedent of inquisitions on past administrations.

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Linville,

It’s just you. The blog works fine for everybody else.

J/K The AJC is apparently still operating their blogs out of spare parts from Techno Buddy’s basement and it does what you just described to everybody.

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I never thought I’d say this….

I wish it would quit raining.

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Bud Wiser

May 24th, 2009
10:05 pm

Bummer of a long weekend. Maybe the sun will come out long enough tomorrow to honor the dead. May they rest in peace, and forgive us for abandoning them to the war mongers and sacrificing them to the war gods.

Cindy isn’t looking forward to it:

http://cindysheehanssoapbox.blogspot.com/2009/05/day-of-dead-may-25-2009-by-cindy.html

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“I’m Luke Skywalker and I’m here to rescue you.” Albeit lame by today’s standards, the best delivered line in all of cinematic history.

And let’s not even get started in a character analysis of Han Solo.

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“I’m for sweeping it under the rug.”

They will but I am for the rule of law and nobody is above the law.

The good ole days but those days are over.

It sickens me when the new AG said those words and then does nothing.

It corrupts the justice system.

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getalife,

Excuse me, but where in the “rule of law” do you find an excuse to prosecute a president for acts taken in time of war? He had Congressional approval for both Afganhistan and Iraq and he executed the plans as he thought was best for the country.

Misguided acts, yes. But are you willing to hold JFK to the same standards? He sent soldiers who murdered innocent civilians to Vietnam?

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Many years ago I had the privilege of working for Amar Bose. An indisputable genius and the son of a political dissident who immigrated from Calcutta.

He said that there are very few institutions left in this country that have great expectations of excellence. Two he listed were higher education and professional sports.

His point was that in the free market place of ideas, universities are really the last bastion of “thinking outside the box”. With demonstrable results and a longstanding track record of excellence.

Certainly not in government does this happen. Nor generally in business.

The controlling interests therein are simply too entrenched and much too self-serving. And are usually dominated by men who are just not forward thinking, much less visionaries, but who often times reactionaries.

And organized religion has of course, an abysmal record of being the antithesis to the proposition of mankind’s continued growth and progress. Which explains why their power and control over humanity is constantly diminishing. Which is wonderful news for our future.

So the right wing foot-draggers and science-averse deniers constantly find new excuses to blame those they disagree with and with whom they cannot compete intellectually. On a vast array of topics and pressing challenges.

And to Dr. Bose’s point, they seem incapable of expecting excellence…

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getalife

May 24th, 2009
10:45 pm

The justice system, like everything else in this country, is nothing but an industry. It’s more about everyone getting paid than it is about justice.

Who killed nuclear energy?

http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/articles/spring01/nuclear_power.html

Linville

May 24th, 2009
11:13 pm

It was LBJ that sent the soldiers to Vietnam. JFK increased the number of “advisors”, but I’ve got to believe he would have never escalated the carnage the way Johnson did.

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Just what we need.

Another atheist and/or Christian hater.

Why don’t you folks take your hate speech elsewhere and try to FOCUS (I know that is a virtual impossibility for liberals) on just one subject, JUST ONE, for longer than .3 nanoseconds, before launching into your personal diatribes about which no one here gives a whit.

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The White House issued a statement today on behalf of President Barack Obozo’s TelePrompter regarding the urgent situation in North Korea. The “president” calls the situation on the Korean peninsula a matter of “grave concern.”

What he should do is drop the “concerns” and put about 100,000 North Korean soldiers into their “graves.”

What, are we waiting for them to get really good at building bombs?

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“The Dick isn’t man enough to shine General Powell’s shoes.”

priceless…

Actually I don’t think he could bend down that far because of that “bad knee”, remember that’s why he deferred on Vietnam… Oh wait that was Rush, no maybe it was Saxby… Gosh I just can’t keep my chickenhawks and thier excuses straight anymore…

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Telescope mission ‘a total success’ Atlantis, crew land in Calif. after Hubble mission-Urinal/ Spendaholics Anonymous

Hehehehehehehehehe-

The dispute has created a rift between Leckrone and the head of space science at NASA, Edward Weiler. The two scientists have devoted much of their long NASA careers to the Hubble — they hugged after the successful shuttle launch last week in Florida — but Weiler, from his perch at agency headquarters, ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~has a dim view of sending astronauts to fix things in space.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

“Servicing was great on Hubble, but it cost a few bucks,” Weiler said. “The Hubble program has cost about $10 billion.”-WaPo

Yeah, no kidding, they tossed off another billion to put a bandaid on a jalopy, they could have built a new and better one and been done with it.

Too busy lying about global temperatures to think?

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These GOPers and their conspiracy theories. To them, everyone in the universe is out to get them except for the 20 percent (or less) who are of like mind — mush. Poor things. You’re all doomed. DOOMED. The end is nigh. Hide under your beds. Well, actually you are doomed. You have Cheney and Limbaugh and Gingrich as your party’s new old white duds. Your leaders. Such losers. Yes. You’re DOOMED.

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Nope. Obama hasn’t done a thing for me as a citizen and as a small business owner. Therefore I will not be calling him for anything, much less to “save my day”.

The scariest thing to me was that Obama was the best choice in 2008.

Wingbutternuts seem to miss that siple fact and try to lump us all together with Acorn and Nancy Pelosi.

Had the GOP put someone up there with McCain that wasn’t an extremist, hypocritical nutball with NO ideas, they would probably be enjoying the whining of defeated Democrats, rather than enduring the gloating of the victorious Super Majority.

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Difference is, that Obama is spending taxpayers money, here in America, on taxpayers largely, while Bush was spending much more overseas, in Iraq, for the benefit of companies in ways that will barely effect the stanrdard of livings of Americans in America.

Fact is that any small business owner who says Obama has done nothing to help them is basically either lying, or too ignorant to notice that their taxes have gone down.

The price of oil will remain suppressed as long as the economy is contracting and will start to slowly rise as the economy starts exiting a recession. Because demand for oil rises as more of it is used.

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I love listening to all this ranting about Obama’s government spending, but the countries and citizens of countries that are seeing almost NO effect from the current world economic recession are of course those that have the largest public sectors and the most government spending:

France’s Oft-Derided Largess Insulates Many From Slump

MENTON, France — In recent years, Jean Beaufranqui and his wife have spent most of their time in Menton, enjoying the sunshine and gentle Mediterranean breezes that have made this little town into a retirement haven, France’s version of Miami Beach.

And now, even as the world reels from its most painful economic crisis since the 1930s, Beaufranqui’s thoughts have turned not to budget cuts but to buying an apartment here and settling in full time. As a retiree — he stopped working almost 19 years ago, at the standard age of 60 — the former metallurgist has sailed smoothly through the economic storm as the French government regularly deposited his monthly pension payments.

“Not really,” he responded when asked whether the financial crisis had affected his standard of living, a question that seemed to interest him less than the petanque bowling tournament he was watching from a park bench beside the beach.

For Beaufranqui and millions of other French people dependent on tax-financed largess, this country’s cozy social protections, vast numbers of bureaucrats and unhesitating government intervention have proved to be a shelter from want. Denounced for decades as a millstone preventing growth and competitiveness, particularly by free-market advocates in the United States, the French government’s dominant role in economic activity has suddenly found new favor at home and grudging respect abroad.

The crisis has landed hard in France, just as it has elsewhere. European Union specialists estimated last week that the number of unemployed is likely to rise to more than 3 million by next year as factories close. But the French economy is expected to shrink by just 3 percent, markedly less than in Britain or Italy, largely because of the country’s traditionally high level of government spending, they added.

More significant in human terms, broad sectors of the population — bureaucrats, retirees, teachers and the millions of others whose livelihood depends directly or indirectly on public outlays — find themselves surrounded by a government cushion. The effects are easy to see: As the crisis grew and began to obsess French officialdom in Paris, for instance, Alpine ski resorts reported full bookings for the winter and spring seasons…

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/24/AR2009052402042.html?hpid=moreheadlines

This is repeated almost worldwide. The nations that have traditionally had very high levels of government spending, more towards the social spending end than the defense end are seeing far less of an effect from the current economic downturn

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The entire controversy reminds me of the one time sportscaster of British football Ron Atkinson. Liberty’s name is an unintended irony.

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Hell, neither Al Qaeda or most other fundamentalist Muslim groups would not have existed without being backed and funded, first by MI-6 and then the CIA (according to ex CIA agent, Miles Copeland)

Because most of the secular regimes in the Middle East, the largest being Egypt under Gamal Nasser, were mildly socialist and there fore aligned themselves with the Soviet Union, these two groups started looking for a charismatic Muslim leader who could stir up religious Muslim against the secular rulers in the Middle East as well as foment rebellion in the Muslim Central Asian Republics of the Soviet Union.

When they could not find a single figure to accomplish this, they looked towards the Muslim Brotherhood, expecially after they used religious extremists in Iran to overthrow the democratically elected head of Iran, Mossedegh, they decided to back the Muslim Brotherhood, which originated in Egypt but had branches in every one of the secular states of the Middle East, and the links between the fanatical Muslim Brotherhood started in 1956, with Eisenhower meeting the head of the Egyptian Branch at the White House.

By 1972, the CIA had forged links in Afghanistan by founding the Asia League which funded leaders of the Islamist movement at Kabul University,including Rabbani Sayyaf and Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, two Afghans who would cultivate ties with Osama bin Laden. By 1973 the CIA partners with Iranian and Pakistani intelligence to run raids against the secular and Pro Soviet Afghani President Sardar Daoud. This fails and is repeated in 1974 and 75.

In 1975 the CIA identifies members of the Muslim Brotherhood raising an insurgency against Daoud in Afghanistan, it fails and its leaders flee to Pakistan where they find support from the ISI, the Pakistani Security service, notoriously pro Islamic fundamentalist, which is already allied with the CIA.

The Blind Sheik, Omar Abdul Rahman, was a co founder of the Faisal Islamic Bank of Egypt, which was a front for money being tranfered to support the pro Islamic, anti secular/socialist government of Egypt and which also found recruits for the CIA’s anti communist insurgency in Afghanistan.

This goes right up until about 1999, when members of the Taliban go to Nebraska, where a CIA funded progagandist who produces childrens books for the international market produces textbooks for the Taliban stocked with Islamic propaganda and jihadist rhetoric for the State Departments educational programs in Afghanistan. This while Bin Laden is in Afghanistan, which is increasingly dependent on Bin Laden for economic support. While Bin Laden is assisting Afghanistan economically, the U.S. is also cooperating with the Taliban to resist various secular/socialist parties which are rising in popularity in Afghanistan.

From the mid 1950’s until just before 9/11 the United States was backing and funding Islamic extremists to block the rise of various nationalist secular groups that wanted to come to power in the Islamic world, and nationalize their resources as well as their pipelines from Central Asia to the Indian Ocean or Arabian Gulf areas.

For about 50 years, the Islamic Fundamentalists were basically cultivated by the United States as opposition groups to any secular government that tried to control its own national resources and assets rather than allow American businesses to suck large amounts of profit out of their nations.

Its not unusual that religious fundamentalists in the United States behave in this Taliban like sort of way. There is a long history of many American conservatives backing up religious fanatics in other countries in the belief that they would be able to control them

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Nice headline, except they didn’t ban them. Oh heck, who cares about facts at a blog anyway.

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