Whoa … that’s one way to end an investigation

From the Washington Post:

TOKYO, May 23 — Former South Korean president Roh Moo-hyun, a suspect in a corruption scandal that implicated his wife and family, apparently committed suicide Saturday by leaping from a mountain cliff near his rural home.

Roh, 62, died of head injuries while hiking in the early morning with a bodyguard. “He appears to have jumped from a mountain rock,” said Moon Jae-in, a lawyer who was Roh’s presidential chief of staff.

“The suffering caused by me is too great to too many people,” Roh wrote in a suicide note found soon after his death. “The suffering in store for the future is too much to bear. The remainder of my life will only be a burden to others.”

Roh, who left office last year after a five-year term, was questioned for nearly 13 hours late last month by prosecutors. They were investigating allegations that during his presidency he and members of his family accepted more than $6 million in bribes from a wealthy South Korean shoe manufacturer.

92 comments Add your comment

TUESDAY VANDY GIRL

May 23rd, 2009
1:59 pm

I await the first lib-tards’ (one who has such concern for the rights and lives of Muslim enemies) wishes for President Bush / VP Cheney / Rove to do the same.

3….2….1…

Taxpayer

May 23rd, 2009
2:25 pm

Too late, Today’s Vanity Girl. You beat everyone to those thoughts. Nice to see where your mind takes you though.

getalife

May 23rd, 2009
2:43 pm

So, vandy girl turns a suicide into a partisan attack.

Pitiful but this is worse:

SHOCK: Passer-By Pushes Potential Suicide Jumper From Bridge In China.

Says He Was Fed Up With Jumper’s “Selfish Activity”.

Geez.

N.J,

May 23rd, 2009
2:55 pm

No, my only hope is that both Bush and Cheney wiil be brought to justice for their various crimes. Cheney has been obcessed since the Watergate investigations because he beleives that the president should be above the law, and it is obvious that the entire Iraq War was fomented to create the conditions under which American public, though fear, would cede massive powers to the presidency that really do not exist in the constitution but are merely infered by a group who hold an extremely radical legal interpretation of the constitution. Both Cheney and Bush have committed violations of treaties the United States has entered into which make them war criminals, even with the relative weaknesses that both the United States and Soviet Union inserted into them when they were written. Both the U.S. and Soviet Union wanted to make sure that they would not be constrained by these treated within their own spheres of influence, but in Iraq and Afghanistan, the United States has broken laws and rules well beyond those spheres of influence. Cheney is still ranting about the existance of WMD’s because if they did not exist, the United States invasion of Iraq is legally co-equal with Hitler’s invasion of Poland in 1939. If WMD’s did not exist, then the invasion of Iraq was in no way a “defensive war” which would be hard to make the case for anyway, as Iraq posed no immediate threat to the United States, and our regional allies did not feel particularly threatened by Iraq at the time and so did not really support the invasion. In this case it becomes totally a war of aggression and conquest, which subjects those who started it to the same conditions that the Nazis faced after World War II. The pretexts for invading Poland was that Poland militarily threatened Germany. No such threat existed, and Germany invaded Poland for its own national and economic interests, as the U.S. did in Iraq.

mike

May 23rd, 2009
2:59 pm

getalife complaining about a “partisan attack”. LOL

The hypocrisy never ends.

Midori

May 23rd, 2009
3:14 pm

mike calling getalife a hypocrite.

the irony never ends.

RW-(the original)

May 23rd, 2009
3:40 pm

Who writes these headlines? If the scandal involves his wife and family why would his death end the investigation?

the bull god

May 23rd, 2009
3:43 pm

ymmmmm. the big green egg is cooking the democrats perfectly.

juicy and pink in the middle.

mike's uncle

May 23rd, 2009
3:50 pm

Mike … at 2:59

Mike….eeeee! Wow! Talk about a ZINGER! Got anymore ZINGERs Mike…eee?
Anything of substance or do you just pop-in throw a quick ZINGER and pop-out!!!!!

Brad Steel

May 23rd, 2009
4:59 pm

Vandy Girl,
Is “Vandy” short for Vanderbilt?

That would explain how your couldn’t-get-into-an-ivy-inferiority complex manifest itself into hate and self-loathing.

You should get the know the Whiner. Much as you wear your questionable Vandy jersey, he claims to have gone to Duke.

You two elitist phonies stand a strong chance of winning the Noble for Advancements in Douchebagging.

the bull god

May 23rd, 2009
5:07 pm

I enjoy the first part of the mornin’

the smell of fresh ground coffee, eggs, bacon.

then you have to listen to liberals talk about how great it is to go to mac d’s or some other disgusting place.

oh the fresh smell. never again.

lwwmm7

May 23rd, 2009
5:20 pm

He was pushed by George Bush.

the bull god

May 23rd, 2009
5:22 pm

look how a word can get their panties in a wad. hahhahahahahha

clyde

May 23rd, 2009
5:23 pm

Roh says,”let someone else deal with it”.

Pogo

May 23rd, 2009
5:40 pm

Obama proclaims, “We are out of money”! You think? After watching him and his Democratic cronie’s in Congress power-drunk spending of this country’s taxpayer money in the first three months of this year, one has to wonder if we even have any semblance of a government at all. It appears that we have sunk about as low as we can and the average American has no representation at all in Washington. In the end, Soros (who basically got Obama elected) and his ilk will run from Obama like the wet, stinking rats they are. They want to dictate policy but they don’t want to shoulder the responsibility of the ramifcations of that policy if it turns out bad.

I Rule You :-) / You Whine :-(

May 23rd, 2009
6:00 pm

I’m honestly surprised that the liberals haven’t said that it was the “honorable” thing to do, after all, they want to kill the kids of CEO’s with piano wire, and this saved them the troubles of stalking the dudes family.

But then again, the implications that would raise for Obozo, hahahahaha, aahhh, yes, so they remain silent.

A man was so desperate to avoid a parking ticket that he ran over an NYPD traffic cop before she could write it, breaking her legs and causing a head injury.

Now that is shocking, the me first, self indulgent liberal democrats in NY City performing a late term abortion so that they are not “punished.”

sick

TUESDAY VANDY GIRL

May 23rd, 2009
6:02 pm

I wonder if Brad Steel went to UGA?

What does a UGA grad say to a Vanderbilt grad?

A.”You want fries with that?”

B.”Would you like to subscribe to the AJC? we have a great deal for you!”

c. “yes, your honor”

D. all of the above

I Rule You :-) / You Whine :-(

May 23rd, 2009
6:08 pm

I’m thinking B Weal went to Wesleyan.

eewwww

the bull god

May 23rd, 2009
6:13 pm

uga grad says: eat my shorts/

david wayne osedach

May 23rd, 2009
6:18 pm

You have to give the Asians credit for personal dignity and integrity.

If we practiced those beliefs here today…

Taxpayer

May 23rd, 2009
6:20 pm

What comes after Achmed the Terrorist? Pogo on a stick.

getalife

May 23rd, 2009
6:22 pm

I think if we implement China’s policy on corruption, we might be able to clean up the cesspool of washington but the partisan hacks will stay the course with bank owned congress.

liberal lucky

May 23rd, 2009
6:24 pm

hey.

first, we cancel our ajc subscription, care of amvet.

cancel ajc delivery.,

thanky you, for that note amvet.

I Rule You :-) / You Whine :-(

May 23rd, 2009
6:27 pm

I spoke too soon.

eewwww

So when’s Obozo gonna cash himself in?

Acorn, the UAW, the democrat party, there is a wealth of evidence.

Oh, I guess that doesn’t matter, it only hurts the United States.

Mission accomplished, right?

liberal lucky

May 23rd, 2009
6:34 pm

obama be the man with the plan.

he can have all my savings cause hes the man with the plan (right?)

all my savings.

liberal lucky

May 23rd, 2009
6:36 pm

Adittohead

May 23rd, 2009
6:38 pm

TAKES BALLs to Jump off a high cliff…to your death–! !

Ray

May 23rd, 2009
6:45 pm

UGA grad says, “It’s not supposed to smell like that if you wash it.”

I Rule You :-) / You Whine :-(

May 23rd, 2009
7:03 pm

SEVCA serves two rural counties with a combined total of a little over 40,000 households. If you wanted to stimulate the economy, you’d take every dime allocated to Windsor and Windham counties under ARRA and divide it between those households. But, if you want to stimulate bureaucracy, dependency and the metastasization of approved quasi-governmental interest-group monopolies as the defining features of American life, then ARRA is the way to go. Oh, you scoff: ARRA, go on, you’re only joking. I wish I were. We’re spending trillions we don’t have to create government programs to coordinate the application for funds to create more programs to spend even more trillions we don’t have.-Mark Steyn

Our whole country is jumping off a cliff.

Against it’s will.

Told ya.

I Rule You :-) / You Whine :-(

May 23rd, 2009
7:06 pm

Gee, I wonder what SEVCA will be busy doing in Sept/ Oct 2012?

hahahaahahahahhahahaha.

Buh bye democracy.

hello third world dictatorship.

N.J,

May 23rd, 2009
7:09 pm

Depends on what it is spent on. Certainly the last eight years have demolished the concept that if you give it to the private sector, they will “trickle it down” by creating jobs and new businesses with tax cuts. Between 1980 and 2008, best estimates are that 4 percent of money given to the top two percent were used for job creation, expanding existing businesses or opening new ones. The finally created a term for what happens when you give the top a tax cut during the Bush tax cuts…”Jobless Recovery” was all the rage for several years after the second of the Bush tax cuts, and of course the last tax rebate he gave in early 2008 which was asserted would PREVENT a recession that Bush denied had already started in 2007, but which now all economists assert started six months before the Bush rebates in early 2008.

starting in 2003, the news media said of the Bush tax cuts:

The economy

Another Bush, another jobless recovery
May 8th 2003
From The Economist print edition

OF ALL the signs that America’s economy is sputtering, none is more striking than the jobs market. Overall unemployment, at 6%, is still relatively low, but this headline figure masks a much tougher reality. More than 500,000 jobs have disappeared in the past three months, pushing the total lost under George Bush above 2m. Long-term unemployment, at 1.9m, is at its highest for ten years. And these numbers do not include the large number of “discouraged workers” (people who would like to work but have given up looking) and the even larger number of “underemployed” (those who are working, but not as much as they would like to).

The weak jobs market is itself harming the chances of recovery. Consumers worried about losing their jobs are more likely to save their cash than spend it. And politically, the risks are even starker. George Bush senior famously lost the 1992 election during a jobless recovery. …

http://www.economist.com/world/unitedstates/displayStory.cfm?story_id=1772963

Tax cuts to the top are proven non starters when it comes to the economy. Until Obama started spending government money effectively, the private sector certainly wasnt doing so. People were pulling their money out of the stock market, the American savings rate fell into NEGATIVE territory for the first time in American history.

The idea that government spending is bad for the economy is an absurd one. One example was the government subsidies to farmers. Overall the government actually MADE money on that program because of the way it was set up. When market prices were too low, the government purchased grain and other food stocks that could be stored and saved, and when prices were high, the government sold anything in excess of the grain reserves it is required to keep by law. Of course the government also made money when the price of gasoline went up from the fees it collected from the petroleum industry to allow them to drill on public land, but Bush killed that source of government revenues, and the oil companies saw windfall profits over the last few years that hit historical highs as well. One type of agricultural subsidy:

The government also subsidizes agriculture through nonrecourse loans. With this type of subsidy, the government loans money to farmers using the farmers’ future harvest as collateral. The government sets a per-bushel loan rate at which farmers can borrow money prior to harvest, so that they can hold their crops for later sale when the market price rises. The government determines how much a farmer can borrow by multiplying the loan rate (which is usually equal to the government target price for the crop) by the farmer’s base acreage (which is determined by calculating the number of acres the farmer planted of a target crop over several years, and multiplying that total by the farmer’s average yield). The crop is the collateral for the loan, and the farmer can either repay the loan in cash and sell the crop, or default and forfeit the crop to the government. If the market price is lower than the loan rate or target price, or if the farmer’s actual production rate is below the farmer’s base acreage rate, the government’s only recourse for recouping part of its loan is to take the collateral crop. This subsidy is used primarily for corn and wheat, with a modified form of the program applying to soybeans, rice, and cotton.

http://www.answers.com/topic/agricultural-subsidy

Since the reduction of agricultural subsidies, food prices, rather than coming down, as asserted by conservatives,with their simplistic ideas about free markets, have gone up overall.

The unregulated free market has failed in big ways, many times in the United States. Before FDR, there was an economic recession or depression every ten years or so in the United States. Half of every decade was spent in recovery. The greatest period of economic growth in the United States of course, occured between 1950 and 1979 where annual growth of GDP rose at 3.9 percent per year. The entire world economy mirrored the U.S. economy, growing at the same rates. While FDR was president the economy had an average rate of growth of close 50 six percent per year, and that includes the period of recovery from the Great Depression, when GDP slowed its collape from -13.4 percent in 1932, Hoovers last year, to -2.6 percent in FDR’s first partial year 1933, GDP increased by 7.7 percent in 1934, 8.1 percent in 1935, and 144 percent in 1936. When Roosevelt temporarily put the New Deal on hold in the attempt to balance the budget, the GDP slowed up again, but still stayed in positive territory growing 5 percent in 37. When the conservative Supreme Court declared the New Deal programs unconstitutional and put them on hold in 1938, the economy went into recession, dropping 4.5 percent that year. In 1939, Congress reinstated FDR’s New Deal spending, because stopping it sent the nation directly into recession again, the economy expanded again with the GNP growing at roughly the same rate as it had in Roosevelts first full year of New Deal spending. 1939 saw another 7.9 percent growth in the economy.

Before World War II started, Roosevelts New Deal had recovered ALL of the contraction that had occured in GDP that occured between 1929 and 1932 (the total contraction in the economy between ‘29 and ‘32 years was 31.3 percent)

By 1938, if you INCLUDE the 1938 contraction of 4.5 percent, FDR’s economic programs expanded the GNP by a total of 30.4 percent close to complete recovery. Add in the 7.9 percent growth of 1939 and you end up with a total increase in GNP of 38.3 percent by the year WWII started, in his first two terms FDR had reversed all the economic losses that occured in the first three years of Hoover’s Republican “keep government out of the economy” ideas, plus an additional 7 percent growth while cutting unemployment in half. By the time the United States ENTERED WWII at the end of 1941, unemployment was down to around 9 percent.

Also unemployment went up every year between 1929 and 1932, by huge amounts annually, but went down every year under Roosevelt except for that catastrophic year when the Supreme Court declared the New Deal unconstitutional and in a single year unemployment went up from 14.18 percent, to 18.19 percent. As soon as the New Deal was reinstated in 1939, unemployment dropped to 17.05 percent, by 1940 to 14.45 percent (exactly where it was the year before the courts stopped the New Deal spending programs and by 1941 down to 9.66 percent. Total job recovery went from 24.75 percent on the day that Roosevelt took office, to 9.66 percent on the day that the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, well before the United States started its own defense buildup when it entered the war.

Republicans are great at rewriting history but there is absolutely zero evidence that the economy would have recovered on its own if FDR followed the same “laissez faire” policies of Hoover. If anything, there is significant evidence that the economy would have collapsed even further, as the wealthy who still had money showed no signs of re-opening companies even before FDR was elected, no signs of investing in the Wall Street Markets.

To the contrary, there is significant evidence that Keysianism worked very well, and Roosevelt was too cautious about deficit spending. Sweden which was as deeply in depression, perhaps deeper between 1929 and 1932 finally decided to follow Keynes recommendations to FDR and put a go into a huge amount of deficit spending, 45 percent of the national GDP, spending it on creating government jobs, government welfare programs etc. By 1933, the Swedish Depression was over, by 1934 their economy had expanded 7 percent beyond its high point on the day of the U.S. Market collapse in 1929.

Everyplace where Keynesian ideas were put into place to the degree Keynes recommended, the economic depressions ended. The higher the deficit spending on the public, rather than business, the sooner the depression ended. Everytime, everywhere it was put into action, it worked exactly as Keynes methods predicted.

Before Keynes, the only time deficit spending was allowed by the economists of his day, was in war time. Keynes was aware that defense spending effects a limited portion of any economy. He decided that there was no reason that deficit spending in time of peace and spread over the entire economy should not be as effective as the limited war time deficit spending.

And to put it simply, for the entire period in which Keynsianism was followed, there was constant high growth of GDP, no business cycle at all, and the wealth of the entire nation expanded to heights thought inpossible beforehand. Keynsian economics CREATED the middle class

I Rule You :-) / You Whine :-(

May 23rd, 2009
7:10 pm

The mission of Southeastern Vermont Community Action (SEVCA) is “to enable people to cope with, and reduce the hardships of poverty; create sustainable self-sufficiency; and reduce the causes and move toward the elimination of poverty.

SEVCA gives people the knowledge, tools, and support to break the cycle of dependence, and works to find solutions to the deep-seated problems of poverty, largely by empowering and collaborating with those whose lives are affected by it daily.

In Vermont?

GTF out here.

Interesting undertaking that I know the Urinal or any other hack propaganda outlet will ever burden themselves with- Check to see how many names from this new SEVCA match up perfectly with the local DNC chapter.

How about that, do the Chinese know they are funding democrat party political activity?

I Rule You :-) / You Whine :-(

May 23rd, 2009
7:14 pm

No wonder the dollar is collapsing, what return is there on SEVCA funding, unless you are a crack dealer or a pimp?

As always, I have been vindicated, bookman scoffed and despite that it still came true.

I rule you.

catlady

May 23rd, 2009
7:26 pm

Honor? What a startling idea! Taking responsibility? What a startling idea! Blaming others isn’t a purely American invention, but you must admit we have doubled it and raised it to the next higher power.

liberal lucky

May 23rd, 2009
7:41 pm

please cut off nj.

enough is enough

liberal lucky

May 23rd, 2009
7:44 pm

how many cats do you have catlady, ? I have 3 cats

my cats say bush is not guilty.

liberal lucky

May 23rd, 2009
7:56 pm

TUESDAY VANDY GIRL

May 23rd, 2009
8:01 pm

Catlady, If we want to have a REAl standard of HONOR in the United States, then anyone accepting social welfare benefits should kill themselves. They bring shame to their family honor, Daniel-sohn!

Brad Steel

May 23rd, 2009
8:06 pm

I don’t know what a UGA would say to VANDY grad, especially an all caps VANDY grad who obviously only went for a TUESDAY (congratulations).

But this GED equivalency certificate holder would have to answer “E”.

E. Do you want me to wipe that off your face?

Ray

May 23rd, 2009
8:12 pm

Early results from the Beard and Mustache Competion in Anchorage: Late entry, Manteats in Black, upsets Palin in the bearded clam category.

eewww

Linville

May 23rd, 2009
8:30 pm

I hate to jump completely off the subject but Jay’s on vacation and this particular subject is boring.

Anybody want to talk about closing Gitmo?

I’m a conservative who has believed for the last five years that we need to close that place…it’s not helping us win the war and it is a great recruiting tool for al Quida.

If we have to bring all the prisoners to the US to get it closed I can live with that.

Ms. G or anybody else with a little sense out there?

Brad Steel

May 23rd, 2009
8:38 pm

Linville,
As a self-identified conservative, your Guantanimo position is heretical. Like many self-labeled conservatives, many of your positions don’t match with the labeling.

IMHO, drop the label keep your positions.

Ray

May 23rd, 2009
8:41 pm

There’s another Ray on this blog and we do not share the same opinions. On this Memorial Day weekend, let us take time to remember the 104,396 American men who are buried on French, Dutch and UK soil who gave the supreme sacrifice to protect Europe from falling into the hands of the Germans. All of them would be turning in their graves to hear Mr. Wonderful apologize for America’s reluctance to establish a “world community” where everyone will like us. He should save all of this self adulation for someone who cares. This Ray certainly does not.

Midori

May 23rd, 2009
8:47 pm

so, are you the racist Ray, or the sensible one?

Linville

May 23rd, 2009
8:51 pm

Not a chance. All the spending going on is idiotic, all the talk of moving away from capitalism is nuts.

Problem is, we’ve forgotten what “conservative” means. True conservatives are pragmatic and do some critical thinking about our problems. Modern “conservatives” don’t bother with that, they have a set bunch of “ideas” that drive thinking.

I gave up being Republican because it got wrapped around the axle on Christian Right “ideas” and stopped looking for good answers.

So, Brad, what’s wrong with closing Gitmo?

Wyld Byll Hyltnyr

May 23rd, 2009
8:53 pm

Wonder what Nancy Pelatio thinks of this guy?

Linville

May 23rd, 2009
8:55 pm

Don’t know. But I’m gonna crank the grill if the rain stops. Think she’d be tasty with enough sauce?

Kamchak

May 23rd, 2009
8:59 pm

Linville

Speaking for only one liberal, I’m with you. We are however, cursed with politicians of both parties unwilling/unable to deal with this lose/lose scenario. The politics of fear and NIMBY will keep these two sides in conflict.

TW

May 23rd, 2009
9:02 pm

Way to, Ray, give yourself a big pat on the back. Your support for our troops in overwhelming, kinda like the ‘Christian’ who gives everyone the finger all week, but then goes to Church on Sunday AM to make it all OK.

You were part of the filth that got 4000+ of our finest needlessly killed in Iraq. Take your faux patriotism and sell it to the morons on the FOX blog.

godless heathen

May 23rd, 2009
9:14 pm

N.J.,

Could you just change your handle to Scroll Down?

It would save us a second or two.

godless heathen

May 23rd, 2009
9:17 pm

Anybody for waterboarding Nancy Pelosi to see if she can get her story straight?

Road Scholar

May 23rd, 2009
9:18 pm

Brad Steel: Yeah, let’s arrest or kidnap some people and put them in jail because they may have done something! Due process, whether guilty or not , should be completed. If not you have a reservation at the county jail to see how unlimited incarceration w/o process feels.

Taxpayer

May 23rd, 2009
9:25 pm

Is Andy doing paid announcements for organizations now or just more whining.

getalife

May 23rd, 2009
9:44 pm

Times are tough Taxpayer.

Andy had to take a job with ACORN.

Linville

May 23rd, 2009
9:49 pm

Kamchak

May 23rd, 2009
8:59 pm

You’re right, the pols are the problem…both sides of the isle.

I’m glad Cheney is standing up for himself. Not that I agree with him but he’s opening the door for a dialog on the whole question of what we should be willing to do to protect ourselves from terrorism.

We really ought to have that discussion, on a national basis. We need to come to terms with a really fundamental question: Are we willing to give up basic American rights and ideals, and are we willing to sanction acts that are considered torture, to protect ourselves from terrorism?

The country is divided on this. Pile that difference on top of all the polarization that’s existed for the last 12 years (about the second Clinton term) and you get the kind of anger you see on this blog.

I don’t know how you start a conversation like that in the current political climate. People would have to move past who’s to blame (or credit) for the mess the country’s in and be willing to just look at the problems. And they’d have to be willing to compromise–that’s not likely.

I’m new to blogging but think this is a good place to talk and learn. Seems like people who take time to blog-at least on this one–have a deep interest in world affairs, and some strong ideas about how to handle them. So this seems like the perfect place to have the discussion.

Taxpayer

May 23rd, 2009
9:56 pm

Andy the Acorn employee. Now, THAT I would pay to see. I wonder how many new Republican voters he would sign up over and over and over…it could be his own form of revenge.

I Rule You :-) / You Whine :-(

May 23rd, 2009
10:04 pm

Hark, I hear whining, sort of.

Watch as I scatter the weak minded with total awesome power, a concept that frightens and confuses these sissies, don’t be skeered now-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwBMVg9L7Q0&feature=related

Boo!

I Rule You :-) / You Whine :-(

May 23rd, 2009
10:10 pm

And now the coup de grace-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvJz-shIcpI

Better fasten your little seat belts, tards.

You’ll get blowed away!

I Rule You :-) / You Whine :-(

May 23rd, 2009
10:11 pm

Ken

May 23rd, 2009
10:13 pm

Obamma drove a Chrysler 300 before he he became the head HYPOCRITE.

getalife

May 23rd, 2009
10:17 pm

Yeah, Andy is drunk again.

Kamchak

May 23rd, 2009
10:23 pm

Linville

The era of polarization began when talk-radio went political, on or about 1977. I remember the early days of talk-radio in Atlanta and it was more akin to The Jerry Springer Show. People would call in, and talk about what their neighbor were up to. Also about this time the power struggle shifted. Up until the late 70’s, struggle for control was between the White House and Congress. RRR ushered in a new era of “us” v. “them” with talk-radio delivering the message and evangelicals serving as front wave shock-troops. Republicans in Congress were now co-operating with the White House. Wedge issues layered on this binary program served to identify the “us” and “them”. The rise of Newt Gingrich in the second term of the Clinton administration was a logical progression of partisan politics.

Now we have 24-hour talk-radio with moving pictures. Cable news has sold out for profit and is giving the public the sensational reporting that we have come to accept as “journalism.” Until we start making informed decisions, politicians will continue to give us the representation that reflect our “American Idol” mentality.

I Rule You :-) / You Whine :-(

May 23rd, 2009
10:29 pm

Yeah, drunk like Obozo.

eewwwww

Kamchak

May 23rd, 2009
10:32 pm

You should be happy, Andy. 4-0, a four hit shut-out.

Linville

May 23rd, 2009
10:35 pm

Kamchak,

That’s an interesting side bar. But it’s about how we got here, not how we get out.

Kamchak

May 23rd, 2009
10:53 pm

Linville

We need to start making informed decisions, then our representatives will start respecting us as constituents. Until we start consuming journalism, we cannot be expected to make informed decisions. In this I believe knowing how we got here serves as an example of “don’t do this.”

Brad Steel

May 23rd, 2009
10:53 pm

I use to have the opinion that saying “eewwww” was affected (in a 15 year old girl manner), effeminate and faggy.

The Whiner has transformed my opinion into a factual piece of empirical data.

Linville

May 23rd, 2009
10:58 pm

Kamchak,

Fair enough. But what are your ideas about getting out? Will you accept waterboarding and Gitmo if they protect you from terrorism? Do you think they do protect you?

I won’t, and don’t.

I Rule You :-) / You Whine :-(

May 23rd, 2009
10:59 pm

UpChuck- Yeah, it’s a start.

Better yet, the Blackhawks got one on the board.

They got their work cut out for them.

I Rule You :-) / You Whine :-(

May 23rd, 2009
11:02 pm

B Weal- I demure to your authority on what is faggy.

You be the expert.

Uh, eewwwww.

Brad Steel

May 23rd, 2009
11:08 pm

And Whiner you are the authority on what is authoritative (or at least you think so).

And so “eewwww” in this particular circumstance is more I-vote-for-Kris-because-he-is-dreamy than faggy. But it’s still faggy too.

Thank you for your transparent predictability.

Kamchak

May 23rd, 2009
11:16 pm

Linville

Getting out? Do you getting out of Gitmo? If so–I dunno. We’ve got some pretty tough prisons in this country but politicians are happy to fight this issue on public airwaves, giving the impression to their constituents that they are actually wrestling with this issue, when they really wish it would just go away. Check out:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/24 us/politics/24gitmo.html?_r=1hp

As for the waterboarding/torture issue–you and I appear to be on the same page.

@@

May 23rd, 2009
11:18 pm

Obama’s saber rattling?

The Pentagon has updated its plans for the use of military force against Iran, Deutsche Presse Agentur reported May 22, citing a statement from U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates. Gates said the update occurred at U.S. President Barack Obama’s request. The United States has not ruled out the possibility of using military force if diplomacy does not resolve the dispute over Iran’s nuclear program, Gates said.

Whodathunkit?

Kamchak

May 23rd, 2009
11:19 pm

Linville

May 23rd, 2009
11:36 pm

Why continue a strategy of keeping that prison open when it’s a huge affront to the Constitution AND a great took for our enemies? We keep at least as dangerous people in our prisons today. The good news about the chicken-hit politicians is that they wouldn’t dare let one of them out…they would not possibly get re-elected.

We can’t just stand by and let the government void anyone’s basic human rights. This isn’t the arguement that terrorists should be treated as citizens. It’s about due process and humane treatment. We routinely criticize China and others for not granting rights to their prisoners. Why should we be above the same standard we demand that other countries follow?

What’s happening to Regan’s “shining city on a hill”, the America that the world aspired to be like? It’s not so shiny when we act like this.

Linville

May 23rd, 2009
11:45 pm

I read the time article. Facts are these: 52% of americans want Gitmo open, 48% want it closed. That’s a landslide percentage to today’s brand of politician. I’m happy that Obama is keeping the push to close on, he’s leading instead of following. And like I said earlier, I’m glad Cheney keeps pushing buttons, he’s causing people to think and talk about this whole thing.

Brad Steel probably has some ideas about this.

clyde

May 23rd, 2009
11:52 pm

I laugh at anyone who thinks they can make an informed decision simply by reading newspapers.

AmVet

May 23rd, 2009
11:53 pm

(CNN) — The U.S. Air Force Academy is mourning its first female graduate to be killed by enemy forces in Afghanistan or Iraq.

First Lt. Roslyn L. Schulte, 25, died Wednesday near Kabul, Afghanistan, of wounds suffered in a roadside bomb attack.

She was an intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance operations officer assigned to the 613th Air and Space Operations Center, the Air Force said Friday in a news release.

Schulte was deployed to Combined Security Transition Command-Afghanistan. She was traveling in a convoy to Bagram Airfield to participate in an intelligence sharing conference.

“Losing Lt. Schulte has been a tragedy felt by everyone here and across the Air Force,” said Col. Terrence O’Shaughnessy, 613th AOC commander. “Our deepest sympathies and prayers are with the family of this heroic airman.”

Schulte’s fellow airmen “will be forever proud of her,” he added.

Schulte graduated from the academy in 2006. She is the 10th graduate to die in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the academy said.

Kamchak

May 23rd, 2009
11:59 pm

Linville

Wow. Those are a lot of good questions. I imagine historians will spend decades unpacking all of your points–and I’m sure they will because everything you wrote needs to be addressed.

N.J.

May 24th, 2009
12:19 am

As soon as we opened Guantanamo and started torturing everyone there, not just people we knew were guilty, but in order to determine if innocent people were innocent or not, Bin Laden and Al Qaeda scored their greatest victory. 9/11 wasnt just to destroy a few thousand American lives, but to get America to discard what it claimed was what made it exceptional compared to nations like the Soviet Union and Communist China. Nothing their leadership does is in anyway different. When they tortured, it was done on the basis that the people they were torturing were a threat to their national interest, their way of life, their social order.

The Fundamentalist Muslims like Bin Laden were asserting that for years, Americans had been torturing or assisting dictators we were keeping in power in torturing anyone that threatened American access to Middle Eastern oil, and basically they made their point when they attacked America and the U.S. started asserting that torture was necessary here. The fact is that were slipped into torture mode very easily, which was pretty good enough evidence to the rest of the world that we were very good at it, the kind of good that takes decades of experience.

Linville

May 24th, 2009
12:48 am

N.J,

I agree that their actions are designed to get a specific reaction. We fell into the trap with Gitmo.

They’ve also been good at turning our foreign policy mistakes–like propping up the Shah of Iran for so long when he was hated, or bolting after the first Afganistan–into great political wins.

I don’t think we have a history of direct torture. We’ve supported some pretty ugly guys, and still do (Uzbekistan, Egypt and Saudi Arabia come to mind). Some of it is probably in our national interest but it’s still good ammo for people who don’t like us. Face it, we’re still not trusted in Spain because we supported Franco while he was abusing his power.

We’re not quick learners.

TnGelding

May 24th, 2009
4:28 am

clyde

May 23rd, 2009
11:52 pm

Laugh all you want, but wouldn’t our decisions have been better than Bush’s after his “intelligence” briefings?

Bud Wiser

May 24th, 2009
6:22 am

Yeah, and after Nancy Pelosi does her ‘wronged female’ thing and gets Obozo to go full throttle after the CIA, the only intel in the white house will be the little chips inside of the computers; problem then becomes finding anyone smart enough to use the computer.

Ray

May 24th, 2009
7:07 am

TW,

Served 35 yrs of active duty in the US Army. My patriotism is not Sunday style nor do I feel any great compulsion to rebut your stupid comment. GFY.

BDAtlanta

May 24th, 2009
7:11 am

suicide’s a cop-out so, yeah, I could see Cheney or Bush doing that before facing any responsibility for breaking the law. Some historical examples?

Let’s see, Cheney had 5 Vietnam deferrments (he had better things to do than protect our country back then) that’s 5 cop-outs.

W skirted Vietnam service by having his dad pull strings to get him into a guard unit without the possibility of having to go fight (yeah, that’s still a cop-out.)

At least McCain and Powell had the nads to go fight for their country. Oh…. that’s probably why the hard right doesn’t like them! They have real life experiences to guide his decision making! That’s why Limbaugh and Hannity and the other retards want to make them Democrats!

I don’t think hard right people can stand real patriots because they find it difficult to look them in the eye because they are really just cowards…deep down…and they know this about themselves.

I Rule You :-) / You Whine :-(

May 24th, 2009
7:23 am

It won’t stay like this all day but navigate to the Urinal print edition webpage and tell me, is a mind not a terrible thing to waste-

# King film obstacle not likely to be last
# Housing slump uneven but wide
# Slump uneven but wide wide
# King film obstacle not likely to be last
# Gaza father gets Israeli sympathy
# Wartime wings lifted city’s future This wartime romance remains strong
# With MLK film, negotiator enters family fray again
# Wartime wings lifted city This wartime romance remains strong

http://www.ajc.com/print/content/printedition/days/index.html

And these are the people that believe in “global warming,” bwahahahahaha, yeah, right.

Ray

May 24th, 2009
7:27 am

BD,

Not all Vietnam dodging was done by Repubs. I sort of remember a Rhodes Scholar who didn’t serve a day of military service due to “student deferments”. BTW, what do you consider a “real patriot”?

catlady

May 24th, 2009
7:45 am

Re: social welfare programs, I would propose a more stringent method of deciding if a person is “disabled”. Many of them could do some kind of work if there was no other alternative. Put them out on the land with no tv, food, air conditioning/ heat and see what skills and abilities they actually have. If they find a way to survive, they weren’t disabled.

And, if we talk about wefare, we could get rid of a lot of the corporate welfare recepients, right–not just those currently sucking at the public teat but also all businesses that have ever gotten any kind of tax break? And homeowners, who get subsdized via the tax code. And those getting student loans. And those who drive on subsidized roads. And those who drink municipal water. Or if you eat food or take medicine that the government has inspected. Heck, Vandy, if you haven’t received those benefits you and I could have most of the country to ourselves! Oops! I do drive on the roads. So I guess you would be by yourself.

catlady

May 24th, 2009
7:47 am

Dang! I guess you are out, too, since Vandy gets subsidized by the government via research grants and students getting federal aid. Sorry!

Ray

May 24th, 2009
8:05 am

More importantly, Manteats in Black is soon to come out with his own cheese. Somebody call Bob Barr!

Jay rules Andy

May 24th, 2009
8:22 am

I did call Bob Barr, and he said Republicans are idiots (see Bob’s column today…) and irrational…

It must be sunday, I saw that the Pious one has already dropped an f-bomb in one of his/her cut-n-paste rants. Andy never disappoints.

And I see Tuesday’s mom has given her computer priviledges back so shes here wishing for liburals to die again… sad…

The republican trolls are alive and well, since they have absolutely nothing else to do with thier lives out in the wilderness, Jay gives them a place to live here…

Linville

May 24th, 2009
8:45 am

Wow, Jay, you’re right. Barr says something that makes sense…it must be Sunday.