Poythress calls the secessionists’ bluff
David Poythress, former Georgia labor commissioner and secretary of state and now Democratic candidate for governor, is trying to make an issue out of Republican support for the concept of secession. Good for him. If this video is any evidence, he may actually succeed.
I do have my problems with the video. Poythress also served as head of the Georgia National Guard, attaining the rank of major general, and he clearly intends to ride that service record hard. That’s smart politics, and it’s fine. But in the video Poythress uses that as a cudgel, belittling his opponents who did not wear the uniform and suggesting they somehow have less right to speak out and perform the duties of a citizen. That’s just wrong, and it’s as contradictory to American values as the secession talk he condemns.
On the matter of secession, however, Poythress has it exactly right. Four of the six GOP candidates for governor, including the three frontrunners, have voiced support for the concept. And it’s nuts, and people should say so.
Apologists for the four — State Sen. Eric Johnson, Insurance Commissioner John Oxendine, Secretary of State Karen Handel and Ray McBerry — have tried to suggest in various ways that they don’t really mean it. The problem is that all four have said they strongly support Senate Resolution 632, which passed 43-1 with little notice or debate this spring.
Johnson voted for it and says he would do so again. Oxendine says that if he were a legislator, he would vote for and even sponsor the resolution. McBerry and a spokesman for Handel say they too support it.
They don’t say they understand the frustration behind the resolution but think it goes too far. They don’t say they think that the federal government sometimes overreaches, but that secession and nullification are lunatic responses. Quite the contrary, they have embraced the resolution with no reservations.
Among other wacky things, such as claiming that states can decide “how far the licentiousness of speech and of the press may be abridged,” the resolution they support explicitly endorses secession and a dismantling of the Union if Congress takes any number of steps, such as additional gun control laws. Given the language of the measure, I also suspect that passage of the Fairness Doctrine would be considered grounds for abolishing the union.
The resolution further states that once the nation has been dismantled into 50 separate countries, “Any future government of the United States of America shall require ratification of three quarters of the States seeking to form a government of the United States of America and shall not be binding upon any State not seeking to form such a government.”
That’s what it says. Point blank. Now, if the GOP candidates were wrong to support a resolution that extreme, they should tell their fellow Georgians that and apologize. But they can’t tell their party’s alienated fringe that they support such ridiculous, dangerous nonsense and then expect the rest of the state to just ignore it. If they are going to be that beholden to the far far right of their party, the rest of us need to know that when we go to the voting booth.
And so far, the four Republican candidates in question have not uttered a word to suggest otherwise.
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278 comments Add your comment
Mrs. Godzilla
May 21st, 2009
8:10 am
From The Perimeter Progressive:
“Secession is Treason”
here:
http://perimeterprogressive.wordpress.com/2009/05/13/secession-is-treason/
say what?
May 21st, 2009
8:14 am
The resolution is a means of expressing disgust to the federal government about their heavy-handed oversight. Sounds like some people need to go back and re-read the 10th Amendment. Of course, the 10th Amendment is just another roadblock in the statist agenda being pushed by the majority in Washington, so it only makes sense that the people who voted them in their would cast a symbolic resolution like this off with such angst.
I Rule You :-)/ You Whine :-(
May 21st, 2009
8:15 am
I seriously doubt it will be an issue in 2012 when Republicans take back control of the presidency.
That leads to an interesting question, after we restore capitalism and the free market and Chevrolet is allowed to bring back the full sized pick up that Americans want, will we call it the Sarahado in honor of the one who will bring it back?
Jay
May 21st, 2009
8:20 am
If you want to express disgust, Say What, then express disgust. If you have a legitimate point to make, make it legitimately.
But surely you can do that without endorsing secession, nullification and state-government infringement on the right to free speech.
Taxpayer
May 21st, 2009
8:30 am
The GOP is ruled by a bunch of dumba$$es. Nothing else really needs to be said about them. Well, except for maybe a little more praise. You GOPers are doing an excellent job of getting that message out. Don’t change a thing. Really. Well, maybe you could tell us a little more about your past record regarding that “no rules and regulations” mantra and how it has worked out for we the people. Then, maybe you might want to tell us a little bit about that problem you guys have with borrowing money to give the wealthy tax breaks and expecting our kids to pay it back with interest. And then, there’s the issue…well, maybe you get my message — or not.
DB, Gwinnettian
May 21st, 2009
8:33 am
Nice plug for your column in that ad.
jt
May 21st, 2009
8:47 am
“belittling his opponents who did not wear the uniform and suggesting they somehow have less right to speak out and perform the duties of a citizen.”
Well, On his campaign website, Poythress is constantly posing in an Airforce flight suit. As a military lawyer and a REM in Vietnam, he would have no occasion to wear this suit.
What do you expect from a lawyer.
Brian
May 21st, 2009
8:48 am
Sorry Jay, my vote for governor will be based upon far mar important issues that who is supporting secession.
RealityKing
May 21st, 2009
8:49 am
Secession was never really concidered before because Georgia was better off as part of the US. But not anymore..
Obama’s 1st budget: 1.8T in the red. Number of people who have lost their job since Obama’s election: 5 million. Number of people filing first-time unemployment claims last week: 631,000. Continuing unemployment claims: 6.6 million.
Biden’s progressive report card and Obama’s promises not to raise taxes: priceless
Gandalf, the White! (!)
May 21st, 2009
8:50 am
Jay: My point is you should retire from writing for this rag. The amount they overpay you might allow them to stay in print for a few extra days (though, legitimately, the ecological minded might want to save some trees and shut this rag down earlier).
You have a serious mental disorder known as liberalism. Please seek help as soon as you can!
And that’s why I support him « Walk In Brain
May 21st, 2009
8:51 am
[...] do agree with Jay Bookman that the “never wore the uniform” stuff is over-the-top, but I gotta say this is [...]
HDB
May 21st, 2009
8:51 am
A wise man stated: “Stupidity is contageous…..and common sense ain’t common”; the GOP in this state is a PRIME example of stupidity. Secession is not only treasonous, but also illogical. Think of all of the issues that secession would trigger: defense spending, a return to slavery (don’t think it couldn’t happen again!); …..and other issues that can not be done on the required scale with just the revenues generated in this state ALONE!! If you don’t like it…..leave it….or work to make it better!!
Redneck Convert
May 21st, 2009
8:57 am
Well, I was awful glad to see they made a law that let us carry loaded guns in national parks. I been thinking about a little trip up to the Smokeys and I think I’ll take one of the M60 machine guns that I keep for hunting and self defense along. I don’t know if they expect it to be in some kind of holster or if I can just carry it. It’s mighty heavy. Anyway, people will know they’re looking at a Real Southren Man when they see me with that M60. The crooks will keep a wide berth and there ain’t no bear that will show its face when I’m there.
I just can’t figure out why Bookman is so dead-set against us Southren States breaking off if we don’t like what the federal guvmint is doing. It’s just a normal part of the South. We done it once before. The yankees might think that one is over with, but we been fighting that war for nigh on 150 years in one way or the other. We even got Reconstruction still going on, what with these civil rights laws.
Anyhow, I’m hoping this Ray McBerry catches fire and gets to be guvner. Anybody that says we got a right to break off and the income tax is illegal too is alright with me. I don’t care much for the others, but it’s nice to hear they’re for breaking off too. We’re just a step closer to being the Southren States of America. Have a good day everybody.
Mrs. Godzilla
May 21st, 2009
8:57 am
…posing in a flightsuit has been overdone don’t ya’ think?
…there are so many things more important that supporting treason?
…how wonderful it would be in Georgia if the entire financial system had been allowed to collapse!
Reminds me of the fourth baby buzzard….
here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJUYxjmbYuo
Bosch
May 21st, 2009
8:58 am
Jay,
As DB wrote – Poythress gave you a nice nod there.
“But in the video Poythress uses that as a cudgel, belittling his opponents who did not wear the uniform and suggesting they somehow have less right to speak out and perform the duties of a citizen. That’s just wrong, and it’s as contradictory to American values as the secession talk he condemns”
Yes, in theory, but I didn’t take it that way in the video.
He’s making a point that these four whackos who are calling for secession are basically slapping veterans and anyone whose served in the face with this childish talk. I think he made that point perfectly clear.
Brian,
Yes, there are lots of issues to consider when determining who you vote for – but first on my list – if you want to secede from the country, I strike you off first thing then take it from there.
Davo
May 21st, 2009
8:59 am
I’ll let Bookman and any other statist dimwit in on a little secret…The very best thing bout America is that is tries to allow the individual to use their God-given ability of free-will. Immediately the less informed of you will say…”well than I can just go out on killing sprees and live without conscience etc etc”…not true. Yet this is the face of the arguement that you will allows hear from hacks like Bookman. His arguement always revolves around race or religion;guns are thrown in because you know anyone that would dare defend their life and property is somehow disfunctional.
A more reasoned and correct view of the current secessionist movement can be found in articles at The Front Porch Republic
http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/
On a lighter note…I have Bookmans next column…ready to go. Go ahead and cut-and-paste this one Jay; it’s effortless, as you well know.
Opinion
Christian Science Monitor
Why journalists deserve low pay
By Robert G. Picard Robert G. Picard – Tue May 19, 5:00 am ET
Oxford, England – Journalists like to think of their work in moral or even sacred terms. With each new layoff or paper closing, they tell themselves that no business model could adequately compensate the holy work of enriching democratic society, speaking truth to power, and comforting the afflicted.
Actually, journalists deserve low pay.
Wages are compensation for value creation. And journalists simply aren’t creating much value these days.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20090519/cm_csm/ypicard
RetLTC
May 21st, 2009
9:01 am
Poythress just earned my vote. It’s about time that somebody called out these blustering redneck bubbas. The whole secession thing was about the most ignorant thing I have ever seen of any politician short of Cynthia McKinney. In fact you could probably say these buffoons pulled a McKinney with that ignorant stunt. This whole embarrassing episode brings visions of a bunch of Georgia boss hawgs wearing little rebel hats posing in front of a sign that says “hell no, we ain’t fergittin”.
RW-(the original)
May 21st, 2009
9:03 am
43-1 is a fringe right wingnut loony position now? No wonder it’s so hard to find this “mainstream” you moonbats are always harping about.
Ray
May 21st, 2009
9:05 am
Secession is only a way of expressing discontent with Mr. Wonderful’s policies. Rick Perry in Texas is feathering his political nest by touting secession but all of these moves by state legislatures are just a sample of the growing dissatisfaction of many of the electorate. States are getting very tired of being so tightly connected to Washington, especially now that we have a cradle to grave president whose agenda is so controlling. Wake up, Mr. Obama, a lot of people are not liking what you are doing.
RetLTC
May 21st, 2009
9:06 am
In hind sight, those four cretins topped anything Cynthia ever did with that secession nonsense.
DB, Gwinnettian
May 21st, 2009
9:09 am
But in the video Poythress uses that as a cudgel, belittling his opponents who did not wear the uniform and suggesting they somehow have less right to speak out and perform the duties of a citizen. That’s just wrong,
Oh, stop with the pearl clutching. This ain’t beanbag.
43-1 is a fringe right wingnut loony position now?
Yes, and so is 90-6.
Joey
May 21st, 2009
9:09 am
Some not so highly charged comments about this particular example of our State Legislature continuing its long, long, longggg history of wasting time instead of governing.
Of Georgia’s 56 State Senators 43 voted for this resolution. Talk about bipartisan support. Only one (1) State Senator voted No. Were the other 12 absent or afraid to take a position? Were any Republicans among the 12?
Jay carefully but dishonestly couches this as a Georgia Democrat vs Georgia Republican issue. Apparently the Senate saw it as a State’s Rights issue. But is it really an issue at all? No candidate for Governor who makes support of Secession a campaign issue has any chance of gaining the party nomination. Regardless of Party.
However, we can depend on Jay to make this an anti-Republican issue at every opportunity. Maybe Barnes will announce soon and the Campaign for Governor will quickly become a Page 2 story.
retiredds
May 21st, 2009
9:14 am
I just wonder how many service men and women who are fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, or stationed in other parts of the world in the name of freedom, are doing this for the State of Georgia or the United States of America. I suggest a poll be taken of all these brave people to find out which.
Hmmmmm
May 21st, 2009
9:15 am
Excellent video, it’s funny how people can misinterpret the video, especially liberals… Bookman, I often wonder how in the world you walk and chew gum at the same time. This guy is on your side, so to speak, and you still find fault in the video. I for one, thought Poythress hit a home run! He is still a democrat, and like his opposition on the other side(republicans) he is full of himself! The idea of Georgia’s secession is ABSURD, almost as ABSURD as continuing to vote for the SAME idiots in Washington.
Taxpayer, are you 12 or 13 years old, and shouldn’t you be in school…. Just curious.
RW-(the original)
May 21st, 2009
9:16 am
By the way, Senate resolution 632 only expresses it’s strong support for the United States Constitution as written. It’s hardly a secessionist movement as it’s being portrayed here, but what do you expect from a “news”paper that had a screaming headline on the web site declaring Adam Lambert the American Idol winner last night just as the show ended when anybody in their right mind knew he had no chance of winning the vote?
Our “journalists” have become cheerleaders rather than reporters.
jt
May 21st, 2009
9:22 am
Because Poythress derides a “secesh” for having not worn a uniform, it would be interesting to know if the military lawyer Poythress was OFFICIALLY issued an Airforce flightsuit. He poses in them on his website.
Just wondering.
RW-(the original)
May 21st, 2009
9:22 am
DB,
If 90-6 is a fringe right wing position in a Democrat dominated body just what is your model for the ideal middle of the road Senator? Could it be that you just can’t admit that what you really want is a radical left wing in full control?
Jay
May 21st, 2009
9:25 am
The vote was 43-1 only because the sponsors of the resolution — including some of the top GOP senators — hid the measure on the daily consent calendar, which is where they dump innocuous resolutions commending a local high school football team or a longtime civic volunteer.
If the same vote were taken now that the contents of the resolution are better known, I doubt it would pass. But in the Georgia Legislature, you never know…
Taxpayer
May 21st, 2009
9:28 am
The partial head of the GOP, Steele, says that liberalism will kill you. Well, in this case he is likely speaking for all 20 percent (assuming they still have that many) of them. Interesting statement though, coming from the party of war mongers, the party of “we don’t need no steenking rules and regulations”, the party of “those peanuts are safe to eat”, the party of “well it is only one in fifty that will get cancer due to their exposure to coal ash”, the party of “import that tainted stuff from China, they’ll never know the difference”, the party of “we don’t need no oxygen, just give me a room full of CO2 instead”, etc. GOP — the Party Of Stupid.
DB, Gwinnettian
May 21st, 2009
9:29 am
RW, surely you can grasp that large majorities of legislators have been known to vote for incredibly stupid stuff.
And speaking of stupid stuff, have you actually read that resolution? (presumably many who voted for it, of course, never bothered.) You really think “Senate resolution 632 only expresses its strong support for the United States Constitution as written”?
My favorite bits–
” the several States composing the United States of America, are not united on the principle of unlimited submission to their General Government” …
“the Constitution of the United States, having delegated to Congress a power to punish treason, counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States, piracies, and felonies committed on the high seas, and offences against the law of nations, slavery, and no other crimes whatsoever”
…
“any Act by the Congress of the United States, Executive Order of the President of the United States of America or Judicial Order by the Judicatories of the United States of America which assumes a power not delegated to the government of the United States of America by the Constitution for the United States of America and which serves to diminish the liberty of the any of the several States or their citizens shall constitute a nullification of the Constitution for the United States of America ”
Introducing such a measure all these years after being in the union? That’s Nutball Central. It’s Swami and Davo and every online nimrod who ever lay awake at night fretting about “Statists” hiding under the bed, on crystal meth.
I applaud any candidate willing to call it what it is.
Taxpayer
May 21st, 2009
9:29 am
Hmmmmmm. Dumba$$.
RetLTC
May 21st, 2009
9:32 am
Ray, would you feel the same if a bunch of Democrats wanted to secede when GWB was pres. I know more than one or two on this blog that would have been screaming TREASON!!!!!! loud and long had that happened. And oh, by the way, we are still at war you know. Yet the sore losers on the right want to secede. Only treasonous, unpatriotic scum would utter the word secede in a time of war. Would you “patriots” on the right not agree?
jt
May 21st, 2009
9:33 am
“hid the measure on the daily consent calendar,”
Any politician who uses this excuse is incompetent and should not be a representative of the people.
Stay tuned. There will be those who use this excuse as per the wind.
zeke
May 21st, 2009
9:38 am
Nothing wrong with nullification or secession, in fact, they are guaranteed by the founding documents of the country! “Any State so desiring may leave the Union at any time!” In fact, By pursuing the war against the South, LINCOLN VIOLATED THE CONSTITUTION! We are a country founded on the premise of strong states ruling a week federal government in order to prevent the B. S. now being forced upon us by Obama and his minions! It has been happeneing since Woodrow Wilson and his so called “progressives”! IT NEEDS TO BE STOPPED NOW! The Feds are severely limited by the Constitution and have far overstepped their authority and need to be stopped! They have no mandate for education, social security, medicare, medicaid, healthcare, environmental protection or buying up vast amounts of land with public taxes! IT MUST BE STOPPED! The seperation of powers, giving the Supreme Court the check on the Constitutionality of Congress and the President, has been severely compromized by the fact that these Judges in the last 80 years have made laws with their rulings governed by their personal agendas! That is in itself unconstitutional! Making laws are the specific duty of Congress! THESE FOOLS MUST BE STOPPED!
DB, Gwinnettian
May 21st, 2009
9:41 am
One last bit, then I really must be going, regarding RetLTC’s question @ 9.32…
Ray, would you feel the same if a bunch of Democrats wanted to secede when GWB was pres.
Thing is, there did come a time after GWB was re-elected that massive depression set in among many on the left. Most simply talked about packing up and leaving for Canada or elsewhere. But some got a little crazier. Probably the craziest thing I ever read of that nature is still online–I can’t post a link, it’d get censored, but take a naughty word that begins with “f” and rhymes with “buck” and add “thesouth.com” to get an eyeful of left-wing secessionist screed-talk from the time.
But see, this was crazy talk from unelected malcontents, mostly just venting anonymously. Not elected Democrats. Not in state legislations.
The official GOP reaction to their loss in 2008 has been simply hysterical; this GA secessionist nonsense is just a part of the hysteria.
RW-(the original)
May 21st, 2009
9:41 am
DB,
Yes I’ve read it and yes I believe it supports the Constitution as written when taken as a whole and not in your tight excerpts and selective emphasis.
Jay B,
Since we’re playing with alternative reality today what kind of vote total would you expect a resolution that said We the people of Georgia would like to relinquish our sovereign rights of statehood to the all powerful federal government to get?
I don’t care how you want to cover up or make excuses for them but whether I support or oppose ANY piece of legislation I’m sick and tired of elected officials voting on things they haven’t read. As a major voice of Georgia’s largest newspaper you do the people of Georgia a great disservice by your excuse making for the elected ones instead of excoriating them for not doing their due diligence.
jt
May 21st, 2009
9:42 am
A subtle tint of the color of irony is contained on this blog.
The term “secession” is not once mentioned in Senate Resolution 632.
Tom
May 21st, 2009
9:43 am
Hey, say what? @ 8:14, there’s a definitive answer to your 10th Amendment claim, and it’s right there in the plain text of the Constitution that “strict constructionists” claim to love so very very much. It’s known as the 14th Amendment. It radically changed the allocation of power between the federal and state governments. EPIC fail, say what?.
Same for you RW. Let’s hear about your strong support Amendments 14 and 16. They’re right there in the Constitution “as written.”
jewcowboy
May 21st, 2009
9:44 am
Can Atlanta stay with the U.S. and the rest of GA leave the Union? If that is the case, go for it boys! We are better off without you. Just leave all the Federally built Interstates open to the right of way, and you can have this State.
RetLTC
May 21st, 2009
9:44 am
Ok Zeke. So secede. Good luck figuring out how to go it alone. And let me guess. The first order of business will be a tax cut right?
Those Bushies certainly did a good job protecting and defending the constitution and shrinking control by the federal government, huh Zeke?
I Rule You :-)/ You Whine :-(
May 21st, 2009
9:46 am
It looks like the democrats have already seceded Michigan from the state of prosperity-
Lansing — Michigan’s unemployment rate rose to 12.9 percent in April, its highest mark since late 1983.
The state said Wednesday that Michigan’s seasonally adjusted jobless rate was pushed up by large job losses in manufacturing and construction.
Last month’s jobless rate was the highest in Michigan since unemployment reached 13 percent in November 1983. Michigan’s jobless rate in March, 12.6 percent, already was highest in the nation.
eewwwww
J Moore
May 21st, 2009
9:49 am
I am sure that before the American Revolution was fought, idiots who were loyal to the Crown (like Bookman and Tucker) were calling folks like Paul Revere lunitics. The fact is that the federal government is in violation of the original Constitution. I don’t care what kangaroo Congresses and kangaroo Supreme Counrt justices during Reconstruction said!
I Rule You :-)/ You Whine :-(
May 21st, 2009
9:49 am
The bill would require companies with more than 100 employees to offer a week of paid vacation for both full-time and part-time employees after they’ve put in a year on the job. Three years after the effective date of the law, those same companies would be required to provide two weeks of paid vacation, and companies with 50 or more employees would have to provide one week.
So you work an employee for 364 days and then lay him off. And hire a new guy to replace him that you work for 364 days.
Another liberal bright idea.
lovelyliz
May 21st, 2009
9:50 am
Georgia is a negative tax state. What to do without all those federal $$$$ and federal jobs?!?!?!?!?!
RW-(the original)
May 21st, 2009
9:53 am
Well if you want real lunacy it’s someone that says the 14th and 16th amendments essentially do away with the states.
Bosch
May 21st, 2009
9:56 am
J Moore,
So, are you calling for another American Revolution now?
jt
May 21st, 2009
9:57 am
Claxton Fruitcakes alone could support a thriving independant state of Georgia.
RetLTC- ” Good luck figuring out how to go it alone.”
Without our federal goverment’s “unsustainable” dept,….no problem.
JCB-”Can Atlanta stay with the U.S. and the rest of GA leave the Union? ”
Yes.
RetLTC
May 21st, 2009
9:59 am
This ain’t the 1700s J. Moore. And by the way, it is hilarious that all you that marched in lockstep with the last administration, you know, the one where we ALMOST went back to being subjects of a king, all of a sudde are comparing yourselves to Paul Revere. Very funny J. Moore. LMAO! Mount up J. Paul Revere Moore! Ride like the wind! OBAMA IS COMING OBAMA IS COMING! You guys are great entertainment.
ty webb
May 21st, 2009
9:59 am
RetLTC,
Didn’t you get the memo? We are not at war anymore. We are simply conducting an “Overseas Contingency Operation”.
RetLTC
May 21st, 2009
10:01 am
Fruitcakes is a very appropriate term jt. I commend you on coming up with the perfect name for the soon to secede state of Georgia.