Secession, nullification … Is Georgia this crazy?
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A while back, I wrote about an absolutely wacky, downright neoConfederate resolution adopted 43-1 by the Georgia Senate at the end of its most recent session.
Among other nutty things, the resolution resurrected the archaic 19th century claim that states have the power to “nullify” federal laws they don’t like. The resolution also advanced the novel argument that passage of certain kinds of laws — including, but not limited to, “prohibitions of type or quantity of arms or ammunition” — “shall constitute a nullification of the Constitution for the United States of America by the government of the United States of America.”
In other words, if Congress passes a law reinstating the ban on assault weapons or tightening the law against ammunition capable of penetrating bullet-proof vests, it would be like hitting a national “self-destruct” button — the United States of America as we’ve known it ceases to exist, and we become 50 individual nations.
In that first column, I tried to give our state Senate the benefit of the doubt, noting that the measure had been hidden in a bunch of resolutions approved without being read by most senators. I also tried to ignore the findings of a subsequent poll of Georgians sponsored by the Daily Kos site. According to that poll, 43 percent of Georgia Republicans believe our state would be better off as an independent nation than as part of the United States; 32 percent of Georgia Republicans approve of the state seceding from the Union.
I averted my eyes from that poll because frankly, I did not believe those findings and did not want to believe it. But I’m now being forced to reassess that stance because of statements from Georgia Republican leaders, who presumably know their party members better than I do.
Larry Peterson of the Savannah Morning News has advanced the story by polling the six GOP candidates for governor. According to Peterson, four of the six support the resolution, one opposes it and the sixth refused to take a position on whether nullification and secession were are good ideas.
These are people running for the highest office in the state, including the three frontrunners for the GOP nomination. The winner of that nomination would in turn be favored to be our next governor.
More accurately, if events take a turn, I guess that person could become the first president of Georgia.
For example, state Sen. Eric Johnson of Savannah, who voted for the resolution, said he would do so again. “This is not a hollow threat,” he told Peterson. “We are simply reasserting our authority to protect the rights, freedoms and desires of the people we are elected to serve.”
A spokesman for Secretary of State Karen Handel said he assumes that she too would support the resolution.
And Insurance Commissioner John Oxendine says that if he had been a state senator, “not only would I have voted for it, I would have been one of the original sponsors.” Oxendine is the candidate leading in early polls for the GOP nomination; polls also give him a lead over leading Democratic candidates.
And as Creative Loafing recently reported, Oxendine is also the man who sent out the following update on Twitter about how he and his wife, Ivy, had spent last Saturday:
Is this truly what Georgia has come to? I don’t know whether to laugh or cry.
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N.J.
May 15th, 2009
3:00 am
The food and nutrition services alone provide Georgia’s farmers with a good amount of their earnings. Without it the agricultural sector of Georgia’s economy would suffer, considerably.
Basically the entire premises that right wing Georgia residents make about taxation has little to back it up.
By the time the majority of Georgia residents file their income taxes (and because of the fact that the median income of the majority of Georgians is lower than the national median income, a larger percentage of Georgians fall into that place on those charts Republicans love to use that show how many Americans pay no income taxes at all) there are more Georgians who pay no federal income taxes at all than the national average.
In 2006, for example according to the Tax Foundation, 3,830,840 residents in Georgia filed income tax returns. 1,363,353 had zero or negative tax liabilities or 36 percent of tax filers (this excludes those with incomes so low they do not have to file at all) This put Georgia in the top ten states with regard to the percent of the population that does not pay federal income taxes in the ranking of non payers.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/1410.html
And at the same time, the state national product was around 390 billion, with the government providing about 60 billion of that or about one sixth of the entire GSP.
For the secession of the state would lead to the loss of this federal spending, which would have rather negative effects on a number of sectors of the economy, and certainly the levels of unemployment, which are usually higher in Georgia than the national average, even during good national economies, would of course rise. Then Georgia would have to consider its own national defense, when the government removed its own military equipment and non resident military personnel. Georgia of course has several defense contractors, but relying on the state to replace the level of contracts that the federal government provides to them, rather than the federal government would likely not be very appealing to these businesses, and the U.S. Government would not be inclined to award defense contracts to a foreign power, particularly those of a foreign power, especially because the state could not guarantee or provide the same degree of security to design secrets as member states of the United States itself. Defense contractors in Georgia would more than likely move shop to the United States proper in order to be able to assure the government that its design secrets would be more secure. Several European economists have predicted that the United States will eventually collapse because of its current economic crisis, with the more economically viable regions separating off from the regions that draw more from the central government than they provide to it, in order for them to remain economically viable, leaving the regions that now pay more to the federal government which is transfered to other regions able to keep those revenues for their own economic support and survival. The Northeast and Middle Atlantic states, which pay more to the federal government than they get back, would become one of the more powerful economic regions, Along with the Pacific Coast States, that also do so, as well as the Northern States along the Canadian border. The Central states and the South would form poorer and less economically viable regions and Texas would form its own state, which, given the rising Hispanic population might run along a more hispanic cultural and economic line. This theory is gaining credence in Europe as well as Russia, and both are looking towards methods of cutting their ties with the U.S. economic system as well as to the American Currency, which would of course, no longer be a common currency in the western hemisphere. Two countries in the Eastern Hemisphere would then replace the United States in regulating world markets, a Eurasian market, with a common currency made up of Russia and China. China because of its vast economic reserves and Russia with its oil and regulatory structures would become the world economic superpower and regulator of the world economy.
This is not at all speculation. Russia, China, and the Central Asian Republics are now having economic discussions about creating a common market and common currency similar to the E.U. because of the failure of the United States economy and the regional differences in the United States. They take the talk of secession seriously, and in fact, rather encourage the idea as it would split up the United States at a time when they are working towards Creating a United States of Eurasia.
I Report :-) / You Whine :-(
May 15th, 2009
5:41 am
City officials fear in ever tightening credit markets even a one-step downgrade could make new bonds too expensive for Atlanta. They also worry that a system already burdened by more than $2.6 billion in debt might not be able to raise any more money to keep the sewer project going.-Urinal
So how are they ever gonna pay any of it back?
Looks like we had better secede before that bill hits home.
I Report :-) / You Whine :-(
May 15th, 2009
5:48 am
May 15, 2009 More Americans “Pro-Life” Than “Pro-Choice” for First Time
Also, fewer think abortion should be legal “under any circumstances” by Lydia Saad, Gallup
bwa
Dave R
May 15th, 2009
6:11 am
Man, my scroll wheel has just worn out trying to get past NJ’s nonsense.
Bosch, you keep making the mistake that I am a Republican, which I am most assuredly not. You aren’t ready to debate a Constitutionalist. The policies that have been practiced in the past that you and I both agree weren’t the best for this Government or this country were NOT true Republican policies. At least not according to their platform.
Now, get out of your two-party, two-sided mindset and open your mind to the possibility that fiscal conservative policies could work, if only practiced by a majority of our elected officials. One need only to look at local governments, which cannot run a deficit, to see that conservative fiscal policies work every day of the week.
That being said, I’m off for a few days of R&R, and the computer ain’t going with me.
Behave y’all. With any luck, Jay will ban NJ for being a total waste of time. Of course, he’d have to ban Taxpayer as well under those rules. Taxpayer just takes less time to show it.
Taxpayer
May 15th, 2009
6:44 am
Well,
I see that N.J. stayed busy into the wee hours of the morning trying to educate these GOPers (aka secessionists, constitutionalists, conservatives, confederates, right wing fringe, etc. — can’t you fellas at least settle on a common name for yourselves instead of hiding behind different names). It’s a hopeless cause for these 17 percenters though. They don’t want to learn. They just want to return to their great great great great gandpappy’s Utopia — the one that Newt and Rush and Dick keep telling them about. Wake up little ones, it’s a fantasy.
Andy the Traitor
May 15th, 2009
6:44 am
Oh yeah,
JawJaw as a nation would really SOAR like an eagle.
Hmmm, I wonder what the state of CA thinks about the fact that they can nullify any federal law they want? I don’t think they realized this last year when Bushco was raiding legal establishments because (AT THAT TIME) federal law superceded state law. Funny how wingbutternuts can turn the tables so quickly, and keep a straight face…
One good thing come from it, our 48th in the nation educational ranking would immediately go to number one.
I think all the treasonous snakes talking this stuff should be treated like the traitors they are. Lined up and shot. But who would post here if that happened?
Andy the Traitor
May 15th, 2009
6:45 am
ewwwwwwwww
catlady
May 15th, 2009
6:46 am
Dear God! I guess these “patriots” are really onto something. Family values, indeed!
DB, Gwinnettian
May 15th, 2009
7:00 am
More Americans “Pro-Life” Than “Pro-Choice” for First Time
What Andy’s hopeful little copy/paste actually means.
DB, Gwinnettian
May 15th, 2009
7:03 am
JawJaw as a nation would really SOAR like an eagle.
Like she’s never SOARRRRRED before… Only God, no other KINNNNNNNNNNNNNGs…”
catlady
May 15th, 2009
7:06 am
I guess this means that the conservatives want to undertake all the paying taxes for services within the state of Georgia, and all the military service within the state of Georgia, because they posit that they are the only ones doing it. Great! We won’t be getting the money taxed (from the other conservatives) all over the nation. They will likely support our secession, since it might lower their taxes.
And we, those of us not conservatives, can just live off the conservative teat here in Georgia, while their taxes and obligations balloon. Sounds good to me. I will live in my paid for house and drive (if I need to) my paid for car (4 wheel drive so I can go all over our soon to be unpaved roads) while I collect my 5,000 per month retirement (before SS) and grow my organic garden with water from my well. I will only owe my soul to Georgia Power, and I am working on getting rid of them, too! Don’t think of coming over–I will get out my purchased decades ago guns to “protect” my lifestyle.
Can we still call it Georgia since that Russian group calls theirs Georgia? Maybe we can be Georgia Junior?
I Report :-)/ You Whine :-(
May 15th, 2009
7:08 am
One good thing come from it, our 48th in the nation educational ranking would immediately go to number one.
Andy the Jay Bookman Taunter- I know one thing for sure, if we got rid of your SAT score, Georgia would immediately move up to 47th.
You’re a drag, eewwwwww.
Michelle
May 15th, 2009
7:24 am
Georgia Republicans are looking like trickle down confederate flag gun huggin nuts to sane society. They have all drunk the kool aid and fliped out.
Taxpayer
May 15th, 2009
7:25 am
Hi DB. I checked out the link regarding abortion polling. It looks like the truth differs, as usual, from what the right wing fringe claim. The trend definitely shows that pro-choice folks are increasing while the pro-lifers have flat-lined.
I Report :-)/ You Whine :-(
May 15th, 2009
7:32 am
Gallup polling, right wing fringe group, I’ll have to remember that.
DB, Gwinnettian
May 15th, 2009
7:35 am
The trend definitely shows that pro-choice folks are increasing while the pro-lifers have flat-lined.
Well, that’s one way of looking at it. My take-away is that a pretty overwhelming number of Americans, when push comes to shove, wouldn’t make first-trimester abortions illegal, period. Which is to say, what Roe established in ‘73 remains mainstream American opinion. Which renders the radical anti-abortion argument kind of futile–after 36 years of literally screaming bloody murder they’ve not budged public opinion on the issue.
DB, Gwinnettian
May 15th, 2009
7:36 am
Gallup polling, right wing fringe group, I’ll have to remember that.
Are you claiming the opposite? That Gallup is a left-leaning organization?
RetLTC
May 15th, 2009
7:38 am
Let these treasonous, unpatriotic scumbags secede. Let them form their governments and when these morons find out that they can’t sustain themselves, take them back with the stipulation that the “president” of this band of idiots agrees to the same fate as Jefferson Davis and the rest of this “government” is tried for treason and sent to Leavenworth for the rest of their lives.
DB, Gwinnettian
May 15th, 2009
7:39 am
Also, Andy, even a third-grader could probably understand that TP was never regarding Gallup as “right wing fringe.” that moniker refers to those who are inflating the findings of a particular data set.
metoo
May 15th, 2009
7:45 am
secession = cut and run
J Moore
May 15th, 2009
7:52 am
The federal government is definitely in violation of the Constitution; therefore, the original contract should be null and void. We have reached the point that the founding fathers tried desperately to avoid which is federal tyranny. The Constitution clearly and expressly says that all rights not expressly given to the federal government belong to the states! How can anyone deny what is happening. FDR, LBJ, and Obama have trashed those words. I am for getting out.
kitty
May 15th, 2009
7:53 am
What’s next? A resolution putting anyone with a drop of black blood back into slavery. This freakin’ state is NUTS. The GOP is fated to be a regional party of the absolutely insane with Oxendine leading the legion of the straight-jacketed.
Duh
May 15th, 2009
7:55 am
The only difference between Al Qaida and Georgia conservative mentality is the country where they live.
Taxpayer
May 15th, 2009
7:57 am
‘Pro-Life’…’Flat-Line’. Anyway! How about this little tidbit:
Just hours after Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin voiced her support for embattled Miss California Carrie Prejean, Biblical scholars noted that the alliance between the former and present beauty queens is prophesied in the Holy Scriptures.
While many observers have called the Palin-Prejean link-up predictable, few suspected that it was in fact predicted in The Book of Revelations.
“The unholy alliance between Sarah Palin and Carrie Prejean is explicitly stated in the Book of Revelations as a harbinger of the End of Days,” said the reverend Dr. Davis Logsdon, Dean of the University of Minnesota’s School of Divinity. “They’re right in there, after the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse.”
But Dr. Logsdon was quick to point out that the first person to notice the Palin-Prejean reference in the Bible’s book of prophecy was actually the sixteenth-century seer Nostradamus, legendary for his predictive powers.
According to Dr. Logsdon, in 1555 Nostradamus predicted the alliance between the two right-wing beauties when he wrote, “The slayer of beasts shall meet the barer of breasts.”
When asked whether the alliance between Gov. Palin and Miss California means that the world is about to end, Dr. Logsdon was unequivocal: “That would be the best-case scenario.” – Borowitz
DB, Gwinnettian
May 15th, 2009
7:59 am
the stipulation that the “president” of this band of idiots agrees to the same fate as Jefferson Davis and the rest of this “government” is tried for treason
Actually he wasn’t tried for treason–short version is, he’d been held on various charges for some time, and stories got out about harsh treatment that had some abolitionists calling for his release. I guess the US Government felt that the former Confederacy didn’t need a martyr, that he was less of a PitA to them free than in jail.
DB, Gwinnettian
May 15th, 2009
8:01 am
I am for getting out.
You and one third of self-IDing Republicans, apparently. Good luck with that.
jj
May 15th, 2009
8:05 am
The party of guns, no taxes and phony Jesophiles want their own country? Who’s going to fund it for them? I’ll give them their own country – Guantanamo. Hear it’s real nice there…
oldmac
May 15th, 2009
8:09 am
Hmmm, I don’t recall reading anything negative about the much more wacky idea that several “lefty” cities have come up with to let illegals live without fear of being deported. Hmmm.
Just a little pushback against the socialists.
LJ
Andy the Traitor
May 15th, 2009
8:20 am
“We have reached the point that the founding fathers tried desperately to avoid which is federal tyranny.”
In 100 days… that’s a hoot… did you take your lithium today?
Again, it would be downright humorous to watch GA try and survive on it’s own. With people like Andy and Sonny P tryin to run the place it would be more like watchin the keystone cops, just not as funny…
ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
Corey
May 15th, 2009
8:23 am
A country where the people read at a 6th grade level, a region where the reading level is lower. A country where 69% of the people believe a man stuffed two of every type of animal on the planet onto a big, big boat a region where 99% believe it. Need I say more.
Andy the Traitor
May 15th, 2009
8:25 am
“I don’t recall reading anything negative about the much more wacky idea that several “lefty” cities have come up with to let illegals live without fear of being deported. Hmmm.”
That was George W Bush and John McCain…
ewwww
HoyaLawya
May 15th, 2009
8:25 am
I usually just skip over the posts by Whiner, but here:
Fulton Co. has highest per capita income in Georgia (2006)
http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/stories/2008/04/21/daily73.html
HoyaLawya
May 15th, 2009
8:27 am
Followed by Cobb, DeKalb, and Gwinnett, I might add. Georgia overall ranked 36th among the states.
RetLTC
May 15th, 2009
8:33 am
DB Gwinnettian, Jefferson Davis was summarily hung when apprehended. That was actually what I meant regarding the “president”. The rest of a seceding states “sovereign” government should be tried for treason and incarcerated upon that states return to the Union. But really this is just a bunch of blowhards posturing for the most ignorant among their flock. In actuality none of them would have the guts to put it all on the line like that anyway. They’re like the neighborhood brat that wants to take his ball home when the game doesn’t go his way. Whiners all. My country right or wrong. That’s what this crowd was saying for the last 8 years wasn’t it?
jj
May 15th, 2009
8:36 am
They are speaking to their sheep here. Imagine, these Superpatriots, defenders of all that’s good and true – want to secede, and watch America fail. Such wisdom – their mantra used to be ‘America, love it or leave it’. Bye Bye!
Tony
May 15th, 2009
8:52 am
Seriously, we’ve settled this question. Settled it in blood. Talk of seccession is treason.
You wait here. I’m getting the rope.
DK
May 15th, 2009
8:57 am
When Sherman advocated his march to the sea, he stated that he wanted to make war so unpalatable to the South “that generations would pass away before the South would again appeal to it.” I’d say he was successful as it’s taken about five generations.
SR 632 is enumerates legal opinions that have been settled years ago, and many of these opinions fall on the losing side of the argument. Article I Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution clearly empowers congress to pass laws that provide for the general welfare of the United States. Congress has much more jurisdiction than SR 632 suggests. As for nullification and secession, that was settled years ago too. I think Andrew Jackson (a slave-owning Southerner) said it best when South Carolina threatened secession. He said “secession by armed force is treason.” My history book tells me that Georgia and 10 other states agreed to this at the end of the Civil War. Of course those generations have passed away and the new crop of idiots that run the show (the same idiots that can’t appreciate the butt-whipping that acting on such a silly idea will bring) are again appealing to it.
So those that are vying to be the next idiot in charge and think the ideas expressed in SB 632 are valid, when you get your prize, muster the state militia and take all of these fools writing on this blog who are agreeing with you and go down to Ft. Benning and kick those feds out of here.
EW
May 15th, 2009
8:58 am
State sovereignty is the very foundation of why this REPUBLIC was created. The Feds should not lord over the states and is stated as such in the Constitution. Do I want secession? No, however I do wish that the trampling of the Constitution would stop. I’ve had quite enough of it.
Jay, I understand you are to get readers and such, however is there no such thing as journalistic integrity any more? It seems lately your mandate is to spread half truths and faulty “polls” in order to cause this type of jab session. To have this type of “journalism” in a “news”paper is more of an embarassment to this state than any Constitutionally accurate resolutions or actions the state Legislature comes up with.
history repeats
May 15th, 2009
9:03 am
All you republicans can move to Texas– seceed and NEVER be heard from again– now that would be progress… can this party of Neocons, Neo-racists, Gun Nuts and general other assorted stupidities get anymore irrelevant?
Copyleft
May 15th, 2009
9:07 am
And you folks really don’t see why conservatives are being condemned for their America-hating, traitorous ways?
It’s because you’re talking about secession. When Bush took office, plenty of liberals wanted to flee the country–but we didn’t suggest destroying the Union the way you losers are!
The conclusion is clear: the far right really DOES hate America and everything it stands for. They’d rather see it destroyed if they can’t run it themselves. They’re sick, pathetic losers who deserve all their current AND future irrelevance to the future of our society.
You’re traitors, folks. Don’t get whiny because you don’t like the accurate label you’ve slapped on yourselves.
Copyleft
May 15th, 2009
9:08 am
EW: Actually, supremacy of the federal level OVER the states is written into our Constitution–specifically, the post-Civil War amendments, and validated by numerous Supreme Court rulings since then.
So, basically… you’re wrong. Sorry.
William
May 15th, 2009
9:19 am
The federal government has been violating the 10th amendment with regards to states’ rights for a long time. Do you not see the feds regulating things they have no constitutional authority to regulate? Let’s not forget how the feds use highway tax money as a bribe to get states to pass laws that the feds want when they haven’t gotten tacit approval to overstep their bounds and pass these laws. I for one am tired of OUR federal government (ran by BOTH parties) mangling OUR constitution and meddling in matters of the state. I’m not surprised at talk of secession, and while I think the motives can be good, I don’t picture anything good coming out of it. I predict a federal gov’t takeover of the seceding state and a federal gov’t growing even more powerful and oppressive would be the end result, unless of course there was a large group of states that joined together. Then the outcome becomes unclear. Would the feds recognize this new alliance, or would the feds try to crush them militarily and control them? Who knows, but I am a proponenet of people endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights, which are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. This requires a small government to stay out of OUR way!!!
DB, Gwinnettian
May 15th, 2009
9:32 am
gotta run, but I saw this…
Jefferson Davis was summarily hung when apprehended.
RetLTC, you must have Jeff Davis confused with someone else. He was released after two years in prison, and lived a free man until his death in 1889.
My understanding is that his imprisonment was a good career move. Southerners at first made him the fall guy for their loss and probably hated him more than Northerners. But after (exaggerated?) stories of his supposed ill treatment at the hands of the Feds circulated, he became their hero, and lived very well afterwards.
This subsequent lionization reverberated–it seems to have contributed to Woodrow Wilson’s racist policies, for example.
On May 14, 1865, an 8-year-old Wilson watched as captured Confederate president Jefferson Davis was led through town in chains.
…
When Wilson allowed his cabinet members to segregate government offices, [Monroe] Trotter led the delegation from the National Independent Political League to meet with the president and protest this discriminatory policy. Wilson’s explanation, that “segregation was caused by friction between the colored and white clerks, and not done to injure or humiliate the colored clerks, but to avoid friction,” infuriated Trotter. After the shouting match that followed, Trotter was ordered out of the White House. Trotter then did what Wilson considered unforgivable. Standing on the White House grounds, he held a press conference and detailed what had just happened. A Wilson supporter in 1912, Du Bois now sided with Trotter. In Du Bois’ view, Wilson “was by birth . . . unfitted for largesse of view or depth of feeling about racial injustice.”
RetLTC
May 15th, 2009
9:38 am
Thanks DB. Anyway, secession and talk of secession is treasonous.
Whiner is a Traitor
May 15th, 2009
10:52 am
Loyal Americans don’t take their ball and go home just because they don’t get their way.
N.J,
May 15th, 2009
11:24 am
Hardly nonsense. What it states is that Georgia is one of the top ten states when it comes to income tax filers who either pay zero taxes, or get back more on their income tax returns than they paid because of the child tax credits for lower income families.
On top of that for every one dollar that Georgian pay out in all tax obligations, federal, state and local, the federal government spends about 4 dollars in this state on various projects related to defense, roads, food stamps, nutrition, health care by federal funds that go to not for profit hospitals, etc.
The first thing Georgia would have to do to keep its roads in shape, its private not for profit hospitals opened, etc, would be to quadruple or even more, its state and local taxes.
Is that simple enough for your reading level? Or do you expect the United States government to defend your borders after secession.
A list of the U.S. military bases in Georgia:
Air Force Bases
Moody Air Force Base – northeast of Valdosta
Robins Air Force Base – Warner Robins
Army Posts
Fort Benning – Columbus
Fort Gillem – Atlanta
Fort Gordon – Augusta
Fort McPherson – Atlanta
Fort Stewart – Hinesville
Hunter Army Airfield – Savannah
Lawson Army Airfield – Columbus
Coast Guard Bases
None
Marine Bases
Albany Marine Corps Logistics Base
Navy Bases
Atlanta Naval Air Station – Marietta
King’s Bay Naval Submarine Base – north of St. Marys
The majority of troops stationed at these bases of course, are not local Georgia enlistees, etc. The military rarely decides to station enlistees close to home. The U.S. government shuts them down, removes equipment and troops, and leaves Georgia with the land.
N.J,
May 15th, 2009
12:11 pm
Exactly. Copyleft. The Georgia conservatives idea of government is more akin to dictatorship than Democracy, or more akin to the Taliban idea of government than Democracy. They would not have small government, they would immediately create a goverment that would write hundreds of laws which would discriminate against blacks, gays, hispanics, etc, and then they would need a vast police state to enforce them.
The cost of their new government would of course, exceed the cost of the old one, and in order to administer all those laws would require larger, not smaller government. Their ideas about individual responsibility in a state where 36 out of 100 people either do not pay federal income taxes or in fact get more back from the federal government than they pay out in various child credits, would also cause a huge drop in the revenues of local businesses, etc. When more than one out of three Georgians who file tax returns with the federal government get everything back or have a negative tax obligation to the government, Georgia loses a large chunk of change when it gives up the money give to those tax filers. Then the loss of all the members of the U.S. Military who are stationed in Georgia would also result in a huge amount of money being spent on off base housing, money spent by troops as well as their families in local grocery stores, department stores, small businesses, etc.
Every community in Georgia or Florida had a major fit over the very idea of base closings a few years ago, because of the catastrophic effect those closings would have in the cities and town adjacent to the bases. The senators of those states fought like furies in order to keep those bases opened, and played every political card they had to do so.
Of course, after secession, Georgia would have no representatives in the U.S. Senate to do that. They would no longer have the right to representation. Other secessionist states like South Carolina would have even more to lose, as in spite of Jim DeMint’s railing against earmarks, he quietly slips out the Senate, particularly when decisions about bills that have military appropriations in them, because his state is number one in earmarks for military appropriations. South Carolina’s economy would collapse without the federal spending that is done there.
And then of course, Georgia would have to deal create the machinery in the new nation to do what Wall Street does for the United States. It would also have to create the ability to borrow from other nations in order to deal with its current rather high deficits. Georgia would also have to take over its own portion of the U.S. trade imbalance with other countries like China. The United States negative trade balance with China and other nations, is of course, not generated by the United States GOVERNMENT, but by each individual state, based on the dollar amount of goods imported into that state, and the dollar amount sent out. Which would mean the new nation of Georgia would have to negotiate treaties for the few goods it produces and the more which it imports, OR it would have to accept a lower standard of living and still be expected to pay the debt it incurred in its own name with other nations. Or it could default on that debt. Or claim third world status and go to the World Bank or International monetary fund for loans. And the GSP of Georgia is such that it does not rank with the worlds most industrialized nations, but with rather lower developed ones.
Then of course, Georgia would lose the income earned from the nearly 100,000 federal government employees, and of course It has 40,000 State Employees in its University systems alone. Either you shut down your colleges or pay your university professors or they leave for greener pastures. And then Georgia loses any technological competitiveness with other nations. Of course college would be rather unaffordable without the various federal tuition subsidies on both the student and university ends of the tuition equation.
If Georgia, for example were to lower its taxes, and become more like Florida it would have to do what Florida is now doing. It is closing down 21 programs, and now has to look for colleges in other states that have the same programs for 7,000 students and convince those schools to accept all of the students credits towards a degree at their institutions. The states with the lowest tax bases are having the worse problems with its schools and institutions. Of course with Georgia’s ideas on health care the base of medical professionals who have move here, will likely move out again, because the base of their operations is funded by Medicare, which provides the single largest source of hospital and medical office income. And it also requires the least administrative overhead for the doctors offices. Only one form, and a single set of guidelines to follow. In most doctors offices in Georgia, when you go up to their front desk, you will more often see signs with lists of private health care insurance they no longer accept more often than you will see one that says they no longer accept Medicare.
When you add up the money spent in this state by the federal government, by retirees on Social Security, by State employees, by the military, by troops, by the federal government on various projects, a huge portion of this states economy relies on the federal government.
Like the Soviet Union, Georgia would collapse under the weight of a government that represses a large part of its minority populations, like fundamentalist Muslim states, their economies would falter (no one is more “free market” than the fundamentalist Muslims… they hate socialism, always have)
N.J,
May 15th, 2009
12:38 pm
Of of course food stamps alone in Georgia have generated 52.6 billion dollars of economic activity in the state (2005 figures) as well as is responsible for creating 173,000 farm jobs in that year in the state.
But that is because only 65 percent of the people who are eligible for the program participate. Increasing that to 70 percent would and additional 72.5 million dollars worth of economic activity in the state, supporting local farmers and food retailers.
10 percent of Georgias population, 921,000 Georgia residents use food stamps every month, pumping 1.047 billion dollars into the state economy to support farmers, grocers, and other food related small businesses in the state. Small businesses would suffer most from the loss of these programs in a secessionist Georgia.
Another part of the “Georgia getting back more than it pays to the federal government”
south side
May 15th, 2009
12:43 pm
This just shows how out of touch Georgia leaders are.GEORGIA THE EMBARRASS ME STATE
N.J,
May 15th, 2009
12:43 pm
Secession does not dissolve debt, any more than walking out of a your mortgage does. Georgia owes a ton of money, both to the federal government and the private sector. Theres a ton of private debt as well, and Georgia has a very high rate of default on morgages. Nation the result would be either Georgia would have to pay its obligations OR some sort of diplomatic or military method of recovery would be the most obvious solution. Georgia does not have a large enough internal market to sustain its current standard of living, and does not have the mean to deal with an international embargo.
Trevor Irvin
May 15th, 2009
12:58 pm
He painted the room “Confederate Gay”???? Intereesting choice.
N.J,
May 15th, 2009
1:03 pm
One in eight Georgia homeowners are in default, business bankruptcies are up between 50 and 70 percent this year, depending on region of the state.
Of course if Georgia residents have to rely on another system of getting mortgages, where no mortgage is guaranteed by its government, private homeownership will plummet. Will the state of Georgia even have enough money to allow interest payments to be deducted from whatever form of taxation it allows. Fair tax of course, would increase the rate at which 98 percent of Georgia residents are taxes, especially that 36 percent that pays zero federal income taxes or a net negative income tax. All that these people currently pay is the state income tax and the state sales tax. Which amounts to between 13 and 15 percent of income. Fair tax claims 23 percent in the text, but in the appendix states why the real rate ends up being 30 percent. Of course Georgia will not have the financial resources to uphold the part of fair tax that supposedly sends back a few thousand dollars a month to lower income payers of the tax, so this part will more than likely be scrapped, raising the overall total taxation of its citizens to even higher levels than currently exist.
Establishing a military and purchasing helicopters, aircraft, etc is a huge expense for a new nation. The money to do so will have to either be raised by taxation, as was necessary when the United States was founded OR borrowed.
Of course the State of Georgia has a lot of bonds out. Of course 9 out of ten holders of these bonds are Georgia residents. Of course, Georgia will somehow have to get the money to pay these bonds off.
south side
May 15th, 2009
1:03 pm
Well I guess thats way these leaders cant get anything meaningful done.What kind of plan do they have for the economy.O I guess we have the fisin hole courtsey of Perdue . Iguess for what it cost itfeed alot of hungry people if we find were its located
south side
May 15th, 2009
1:06 pm
Enter your comments here
south side
May 15th, 2009
1:10 pm
Well I guess this party is truly out of ideas. This what the repubs have been reduced too
N.J.
May 15th, 2009
9:01 pm
As far as I can tell since I moved here, the current governor and legislatures only economic plan is to pray on the steps of the governmental centers.
I cannot imagine how this state ran up such a huge deficit since 2003. Well I can imagine, because the president of the U.S. did the same thing, except Georgia didnt have an unnecessary way to blame it on.
When one examines the Republican party platform, it has been reduced to two single pillars. One is forcing a social conserativism on everyone, and the other is that tax cuts are the solution to all economic types of economic situtations, something even the most conservative supply side economists do not assert or accept.
luangtom
May 17th, 2009
9:50 am
Few, if any, of the posters here recognized the fact that 35 other states have already passed laws like those being discussed here. State sovereign rights exist and are correct, right after individual rights. Federal rights are not meant to usurp the first two.
Oxswvulq
June 22nd, 2009
3:11 pm
5AUaPG comment1 ,
Deborah
June 23rd, 2009
11:15 am
Let’s talk about treason. Treason is trying to overthrow the government. What exactly do you think Obama and the majority Dem’s in the House and Senate are trying to do?
Here’s an agenda for you- print money with no gold backing; make irrational demands for excessive taxation on the citizens so that money can be given to special interests groups that put you in office;bow to dictators in other countries while making apologies for being alive as a free nation and trying to help others do the same; and last but not least, force the States and private companies to take your money or else. What a way to overthrow the government “of the people, by the people, and for the people” without ever firing a shot. Nevertheless, these are still traitorous acts of “wealth redistribution” that our Founding Fathers were familiar with from Great Britain and always wanted to safeguard us from.
Tony
August 22nd, 2009
9:48 am
Repeat after me, “The Federal Government Is All.”
Jay, you’re an idiot. You bash a state for asserting their constitutional rights? Wow.
Norris
September 6th, 2009
4:01 pm
I am totally in support of the nullification of Obama Deathcare by Georgia and the State’s Rights Bills. You have no idea what you are talking about. You can let Obama and his leftist, liberal, American hating, communist and terrorist loving, criminal cronies tell you what to do if you want to. While you’re at it… let them tell you what to eat, where to live and more importantly what to say and think. If you want to live in a country where you have no freedom and the “Gov’t.” runs everything try China or maybe Obama’s favorite Cuba. Hey, I bet Chavez wouldn’t mind having you either. Anyone who says that standing up for the Consitituion and keeping the Federal Government in check is wrong has either been brainwashed, is not informed, is stupid or maybe all three. It is the right of the PEOPLE to stand up againt a Government that oversteps its boundaries. A good start is with States Rights. I am sick and tired of all the Civil War bull****! Anytime someone in the South doesn’t agree with the liberal agenda you all revert back to your childish retoric and name calling. You were obviously educated in one of those liberal school systems that makes up and changes the real history in the history books. The Civil War was not started over the issue of Slavery. It was fought over the Federal Government overstepping it’s bounds and trying to control the South. Maybe we should teach AMERICAN HISTORY in schools now instead of World History or African History or Euopean History. That way more people will know about the United States of America and will hopefully make better choices in elections and not elect a communist loving, dictator want to be President like Obama.
Fritz
March 10th, 2010
5:38 pm
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Carmelo
March 10th, 2010
9:24 pm
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Adriana
March 10th, 2010
10:12 pm
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Wilma
March 11th, 2010
10:52 am
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Michael Melton
March 27th, 2010
5:44 pm
Its funny all this bad mouthing of a State that wants Secession, and the 10th Amendment of the Constitution says it can do whatever it wishes. The Federal Government has no authority over each sovereign State. The USA was founded on Secession, what makes it bad now? It just shows that people are good little sheeple for the Federal Government and can’t think for themselves. I give koodles to Georgia, they are on the right path, what are people going to do when America hits Iran and the promised Retaliation from Russia, China and the SCO hits America? I bet money you wish you had Seceded..
Thomas Martin Sobottke
March 30th, 2010
3:29 pm
Secession and nullification are simply treason against the government of the United States of America. I do not support traitors. I am not a native Georgian and thank God for it. I defend the United States of America, my country. I defend our flag. I support those who have gone before me, many of them native Georgians who in two World Wars and since the American Civil War have supported the national government. Just remember that key word for this entire debate: TREASON. And that those who engage in it are TRAITORS. It needed to be said and said clearly.
Thomas Martin Sobottke 329 Evergreen Lane Pewaukee, WI 53072 262-691-2887 ekttobos@sbcglobal.net I do not hide behind little funny idenitfiers but stand up manfully and rightly for what I believe. I also support the end of slavery in America and the Civil Rights legislation to make the United States truly a land of the free for all our citizens.