Secession, nullification … Is Georgia this crazy?

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A while back, I wrote about an absolutely wacky, downright neoConfederate resolution adopted 43-1 by the Georgia Senate at the end of its most recent session.

Among other nutty things, the resolution resurrected the archaic 19th century claim that states have the power to “nullify” federal laws they don’t like. The resolution also advanced the novel argument that passage of certain kinds of laws — including, but not limited to, “prohibitions of type or quantity of arms or ammunition” — “shall constitute a nullification of the Constitution for the United States of America by the government of the United States of America.”

In other words, if Congress passes a law reinstating the ban on assault weapons or tightening the law against ammunition capable of penetrating bullet-proof vests, it would be like hitting a national “self-destruct” button — the United States of America as we’ve known it ceases to exist, and we become 50 individual nations.

In that first column, I tried to give our state Senate the benefit of the doubt, noting that the measure had been hidden in a bunch of resolutions approved without being read by most senators. I also tried to ignore the findings of a subsequent poll of Georgians sponsored by the Daily Kos site. According to that poll, 43 percent of Georgia Republicans believe our state would be better off as an independent nation than as part of the United States; 32 percent of Georgia Republicans approve of the state seceding from the Union.

I averted my eyes from that poll because frankly, I did not believe those findings and did not want to believe it. But I’m now being forced to reassess that stance because of statements from Georgia Republican leaders, who presumably know their party members better than I do.

Larry Peterson of the Savannah Morning News has advanced the story by polling the six GOP candidates for governor. According to Peterson, four of the six support the resolution, one opposes it and the sixth refused to take a position on whether nullification and secession were are good ideas.

These are people running for the highest office in the state, including the three frontrunners for the GOP nomination. The winner of that nomination would in turn be favored to be our next governor.

More accurately, if events take a turn, I guess that person could become the first president of Georgia.

For example, state Sen. Eric Johnson of Savannah, who voted for the resolution, said he would do so again. “This is not a hollow threat,” he told Peterson. “We are simply reasserting our authority to protect the rights, freedoms and desires of the people we are elected to serve.”

A spokesman for Secretary of State Karen Handel said he assumes that she too would support the resolution.

And Insurance Commissioner John Oxendine says that if he had been a state senator, “not only would I have voted for it, I would have been one of the original sponsors.” Oxendine is the candidate leading in early polls for the GOP nomination; polls also give him a lead over leading Democratic candidates.

And as Creative Loafing recently reported, Oxendine is also the man who sent out the following update on Twitter about how he and his wife, Ivy, had spent last Saturday:

Is this truly what Georgia has come to? I don’t know whether to laugh or cry.

267 comments Add your comment

DB, Gwinnettian

May 14th, 2009
5:11 pm

“Are you really that surprised that politicians are trying to appease a portion of their base?”

Probably not–he just likes winding people up now and again. Don’t we all?

Susan Myers

May 14th, 2009
5:13 pm

Secession is treason, by definition. We’re in the middle of two wars, and I take that very, very, seriously. Nobody believes secession is even feasible; all this chest-thumping is the worst sort of pandering, and purely for personal aggrandizement. If Oxendine, Perry, et al. want to indulge themselves in fantasies, let them do what Newt did, and write historical fiction. Our nation is in deep, deep trouble, and this crap is not helpful.

Kamchak

May 14th, 2009
5:13 pm

Midori

This is a response to your 4:02 yesterday. A few weeks ago I suggested that eating locally produced honey is a homeopathic remedy for your allergies. Unfortunately this will not cure your current condition, but it will help in the future. The Dekalb Farmer’s Market on Ponce de Leon has a wide selection of honey. Weeks Honey Farm from Omega Ga. has been my choice for two years. Omega isn’t exactly in the environs of Atlanta, but it works for me. My two favorites are the wildflower honey and the tupelo honey.

EJ Moosa

May 14th, 2009
5:14 pm

Wes @ 4:52

The number of people who support secession will only grow from here. If you have already decided enough of the Federal government stepping on the autonomy of the states, you are not likely to change your opinion, especially under the Obama reign of government.

And obviously, this is not a Georgia only issue. It is growing around the nation. And it is not a southern issue, unless Montana has been relocated.

jasper

May 14th, 2009
5:15 pm

Its interesting how history repeats itself. SC threatened seccession over nullification rights against federal tariffs in the 1830’s. Most other southern states passed on it due to Jackson’s saber rattling. SC eventually caved as well. Jackson was thought a tyranncal despot lording increasing federal power over the states by his adversaries.

America survived Jackson, it will survive Obama as well.

Kamchak

May 14th, 2009
5:16 pm

Brian @ 4:37

Yep. Born on Peachtree Street.

Midori

May 14th, 2009
5:17 pm

Kamchak — MY HERO!!!!

Thanks very much :)

I Report :-) / You Whine :-(

May 14th, 2009
5:21 pm

It’s surrounded by Georgia. Just look at the SAT scores, high school drop out rates and % of residents who go to college.

Heh, a dimwit liberal that cannot even read the AJC-

METRO SAT SCORES
Here are 2008 results from metro Atlanta school districts. Each section is worth 800 points with a perfect score of 2400.

District
………Reading…Math…Writing…Total
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Atlanta…..436….424….440…….1300~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Cherokee….525….537….513…….1575
Clayton…..428….422….418…….1268
Cobb……..510….514….499…….1523
Decatur…..530….513….512…….1555
DeKalb……452….443….444…….1339
Fayette…..518….528….505…….1551
Fulton……527….538….528…….1593
Gwinnett….504….522….495…….1521
Marietta….489….500….471…….1460
State…….491….493….482…….1466
Nation……502….515….494…….1511

266 points below the state average.

And if we took out the Atlanta and Clayton scores, Georgia would be ranked higher than the national average.

Obozo.

I Report :-) / You Whine :-(

May 14th, 2009
5:22 pm

Make that 166 points below the state average.

Pogo

May 14th, 2009
5:23 pm

Guns and this succession thing are a result of what one hell of a lot of people see as the eroding away of their personal freedom and their basic distrust of the current administration and the current Congress. If you don’t believe it, look at weapons sells and ammunition sells nationwide in the last six months. This should tell everyone that people are now preparing themselves, in the most basic way possible (self defense of their homes and families)for what they think is going to happen in the future. Does anyone think that all of these guns and ammunition are just being bought by “Conservative Nuts”? I don’t think so. The numbers are way too high. The American people do not trust their government and quite frankly, why should they? Can you tell me exactly why anyone should trust our government? Can you tell anyone why they should trust anyone in our government that has been in power in the last 30 years? We have been lied to, we have been played as fools again and again by those that use race, political parties and class warfare as weapons to further their agendas. These are dangerous times. Succession is not the answer but neither is socialism as proposed by Obama. The only thing that will ever solve our problem is to have an educated and informed voting public and that pipedream is about gone. Relying on this belief places us in an impossible position. The Democrats, (just as Lenin and Stalin did) rely upon their supporters being pretty much ignorant and poor. Most are either ignorant or want smart and want to the play the government system to their benefit monetarily to maximize their personal situations. The Democrats, while never admitting it, want their supporters as uninformed as possible. Their take on it is, the more uninformed of issues they are, the easier they are to control. That is socialist doctrine in a nutshell and Obama and all the rest in control right now are playing this to the hilt. Distrust will grow.

Another word; there is a movement afoot now not to do business with any of the businesses such as GM, Chrysler and the banks that accepted our tax money. I support this movement. Why should I pay my after tax dollars to a company that took my hard earned tax money just to survive? I encourage all Americans not to do business with these dinosaurs. We should have let them sink. Exactly how much per job are we willing to pay for people to keep their taxpyaer subsidized union jobs and for their executives keep their high paying jobs?

I Report :-) / You Whine :-(

May 14th, 2009
5:26 pm

Yeah, your army would be “bad to the bone” after all the Conservatives left out, bwahahaha-

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, her eyes wide, her hands gesticulating wildly, on Thursday laid out a third version of what she knew and when she knew it on the Bush administration’s interrogation policies, edging ever closer to debating what the meaning of the word “is” is.

You’d backstab yourselves to death and then surrender, to someone.

Anyone.

Wes

May 14th, 2009
5:27 pm

EJ Moosa,

I completely agree that the federal government is too big.

I would mention that you should consider the ramifications of secession. Ask yourself how many people are employed at Ft’s Gordon and Benning and the other military bases around the state. Think about Home Depot, UPS and Delta that would up and leave rather than risk losing access to the rest of the US. Then realize that Obama has more than a few supporters in the state.

Unless this movement includes a significant majority of the states and states that were not overwhelming in voting Republican in the last election, we’re not going anywhere.

I Report :-) / You Whine :-(

May 14th, 2009
5:49 pm

May 14 (Bloomberg) — President Barack Obama, calling current deficit spending “unsustainable,” warned of skyrocketing interest rates for consumers if the U.S. continues to finance government by borrowing from other countries.

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Heeeellloooooooooooo??????????????????

Is there anybody in there?

jt

May 14th, 2009
6:01 pm

Pogo -
I can tell that your last post was passionate.
And made sense.
You will find that most neo-tards are repelled by the truth.

jt

May 14th, 2009
6:03 pm

Thank you Jay for reining in Susan Meyers.
Her comments were scandalous.

Frederick Douglass

May 14th, 2009
6:15 pm

How can someone offer a credible synopsis of socialism when they can’t differentiate between “SELLS”, and “SALES”? Must’ve been educated in
Atlanta city schools.

Midori

May 14th, 2009
6:20 pm

not only that Frederick – they can’t spell “socialist” either.

the ninnies keep adding a “s” to the end.

Taxpayer

May 14th, 2009
6:20 pm

Well, this blog sure has more than its share of 17 percenters. I wonder what brought them out of the woodwork. After all, Jay did not say FairTax™ and that’s usually the only thing that gets these GOPers all excited. A double dose of Viagra can’t even get them this worked up. Bunch of coneheads. What can it be!

getalife

May 14th, 2009
6:28 pm

Andy’s head exploded again.

Clean up at 5:49 Jay.

Ew.

I Report :-) / You Whine :-(

May 14th, 2009
6:45 pm

Good one, getathejoke, it even almost made sense.

Almost.

I thought it was rather ironic to see SpendZilla babbling on about government borrowing money but I guess that one went totally over your head, didn’t it?

With you liberals in mind, I’ll try to dumb down my comments in the future, k?

Taxpayer

May 14th, 2009
6:50 pm

getalife

May 14th, 2009
6:54 pm

Andy,

I don’t think you can dumb down your comments any further but he is spending like w and using his policies.

You should like that, little ray of sunshine.

N.J.

May 14th, 2009
6:56 pm

Doubt it. If they did and lost the protection of the United States government and such, Cuba or Mexico could invade and annex Georgia if they so desired, just a Russia was able to simply roll over its own Georgia, or regions of that nation were simply able to break away and form their own nations like South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

Give the fact that Atlanta tends to lean rather towards the Democratic, as does a huge swath of the state around Columbia, both these areas would likely prefer to remain part of the U.S. rather than secede, so the U.S. could of course act to prevent these areas of the state from seceding and remain part of the United States. The New nation of Georgia would lose the area that provides the bulk of its economy in that case.

Whats driving this secession talk is basically the fact that the state is slowly moving into the blue column. with Democrats making up 47 percent of the vote in the 2008 election with trends suggesting that in 2010 this divide will get even closer.

I Report :-) / You Whine :-(

May 14th, 2009
6:58 pm

Hey, has anyone else noticed, now that we don’t have a Secretary Of State, that we really don’t need one?

Taxpayer

May 14th, 2009
6:58 pm

Something dumber than ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Riiiight.

N.J.

May 14th, 2009
7:03 pm

Thats cause you dont listen to the international news. Clinton gets as much press and is as popular as Obama is in Europe and Asia

Bosch

May 14th, 2009
7:06 pm

I really don’t like it when people throw out the race card, and I’m certainly not trying to do it, but I find it rather interesting, and not coincidental, that people are talking about secession. Big government, especially big federal government, and spending and all the things that these whining secessionist ninnys have never seemed to be bothered with before are all of a sudden talking about leaving. They are yelling about it now, when that’s been the norm since WWII. Now? Oh, all of a sudden it’s un-American and they want to form a new country.

I want to think it’s different, but I don’t. Anyone want to call me a rascist – go for it. I’m not the one wanting to secede.

Bosch

May 14th, 2009
7:07 pm

I left something out of my 7:06 – I find it rather interesting, and not coincidental, that people are talking about secession now that we have a black President.

N.J.

May 14th, 2009
7:11 pm

Lets see, the Atlanta Metro Area looks like a big blue blotch on the electoral map and the Atlanta Metro area makes up 5,278,904 people of the total roughly 9 million population of the state.

McCain won this state by about 204,000 votes. In 2004, the youth vote made up about 14 percent of this states population, in 2008 18 percent. Obama won his largest amount of voters among the young in this state, and the trend towards younger voters leaning towards the Democrats in this state is not changing. The assertion that as the young get older they change party affiliation does not hold much water. It is rare that people switch party affiliations. A young democrat may support a liberal Democrat, and when they get older, support a Conservative Democrat, but switching parties is rare.

N.J.

May 14th, 2009
7:12 pm

Oops I was looking at the wrong column. The youth vote in 2004 was 11 9percent, 18 percent in 2008. The second largest increase in the country

georgian by birth floridian because I'm lucky

May 14th, 2009
7:13 pm

Bosch not calling you a racist, sure that is some people’s motive. However do you really think that ALL are doing it based on race?

If you do it is your opinion and are more than entitled to it, but may I ask why it is you feel this way?

godless heathen

May 14th, 2009
7:13 pm

Talk of secession is crazy talk. A Constitutional Convention might be more appropriate.

Susan Myers

May 14th, 2009
7:15 pm

Off topic

Looky, looky what I found! Now maybe some of you knew this already, but I sure didn’t.

Billo didn’t think gay marriage was wrong back in 2002, and he wasn’t so fond of holy rollers.

http://www.americablog.com/2009/05/funny-bill-oreilly-didnt-think-gay.html

@@

May 14th, 2009
7:17 pm

So what’s wrong with wanting to keep my tax dollars where they can be closely scrutinized, jay.

And to think….

we could put some politicians in the unemployment line.

That alone would be reason to support secession.

It’ll never happen but a girl can dream, can’t she?

Susan Myers

May 14th, 2009
7:18 pm

jt @ 6:03,

Ahhh, poor baby, I’m sorry I offended you. Not!

TUESDAY VANDY GIRL

May 14th, 2009
7:18 pm

“I consider the foundation of the Constitution as laid on this ground:
That ‘all powers not delegated to the United States, by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States or to the people’ (10th Amendment). To take a single step beyond the boundaries thus specifically drawn around the powers of Congress, is to take possession of a boundless field of power, no longer susceptible to any definition.”

Thomas Jefferson, founding father (evil slave holder to you leftist collectivists)

Susan Myers

May 14th, 2009
7:20 pm

Bosch @ 7:07,

You hit the nail on the head. That’s exactly what’s going on. They’ll try to lie their way out of it, but it doesn’t change the truth.

DB, Gwinnettian

May 14th, 2009
7:21 pm

Here’s the thing about SEE-cession.

1) Those who whine about it never being explicitly forbidden in the Constitution conveniently forget that our first such document called for a “perpetual” union. If it was so important for 18th-century Southrens to bail they should’ve got it in writing. They didn’t.

2) After the 1861-5 unpleasantness, Gen. Grant referred to the conflict as “the Rebellian.” I always figured that calling it “The Civil War” was a way to meet the defeated parties halfway. Yet these bozos continue to deny it was even that–they still want to refer to it as “The war of northern aggression.” How sad.

3) No states are going anywhere.

That is all.

georgian by birth floridian because I'm lucky

May 14th, 2009
7:24 pm

Maybe I am way off, but how is legalizing, weed any different?

I am actually in favor of the decriminalization of pot, but just curious if you all feel that Arnold and all the state leg. in florida are guilty of treason, or are stupid and racist too?

Why are they allowed to ignore federal laws and I haven’t heard complaints?

georgian by birth floridian because I'm lucky

May 14th, 2009
7:25 pm

my bad on typing florida should have been california. maybe it is legal… :)

@@

May 14th, 2009
7:27 pm

Come to think of it, it’s the only circumstance in which I’d be willing to surrender more in taxes.

DB, Gwinnettian

May 14th, 2009
7:28 pm

I find it rather interesting, and not coincidental, that people are talking about secession now that we have a black President.

Yeah. I was going to address that too and forgot. Have you ever wonder how surly they’d been if, say, Obama had barely won the EVs but lost the popular vote? And only got the EVs through the intervention of the Supreme Court?

Yeah, there was a lot of ferocious anger expressed in some pockets of the left, most notably in that fabulously cathartic infamous rant posted at “—thesouth.com” (wherein the first word started with “f” and rhymed with “buck”). But that was four years later.

These guys, they’re loaded for bear, and it’s what, 110 days into the administration? Wow.

Susan Myers

May 14th, 2009
7:29 pm

Bosch

May 14th, 2009
7:31 pm

georgian by birth…….,

I thought I was pretty clear on why I feel that way, but I don’t think it’s coincidental that some want to secede now when their complaints have been the norm for many years – they’ve had ample opportunity in the polling booths to change it, and there was never talk of leaving before. Sure, they could have had some kind of awakening after noticing that their party is growing more and more irrelevant with every waking hour, and like I wrote, I don’t like to think that, but I do. Simple.

Oh, and I’m all for legalizing pot and all drugs too. Slap a tax on it – budget problems solved.

TUESDAY VANDY GIRL

May 14th, 2009
7:31 pm

I have no desire to see any state leave (ok..I DO want to see large parts of california fall into the ocean, but thats plate tectonics not politics) however, for those who like to keep harping that we “lost” the 1861-1865 war, we lost that battle but southerners won the war..we dominated congress for much of the last 146 years ..thats why everything in atlanta NOT named after a black preacher hustler is named after Richard B. Russell

as a side note when liberal teachers enjoyed pointing out that reconstruction was forced on rebellious southerners, I enjoyed pointing back that Jim crow resulted from reconstruction ,,consider it blowback…and I always take comfort than more northerners died in the war than did so on my ancestors side.

Susan Myers

May 14th, 2009
7:35 pm

TVG @ 7:31,

So, did you meet any interesting people in the slammer?

DB, Gwinnettian

May 14th, 2009
7:36 pm

Susan @ 7.29, I saw your linked story. question:

How will anyone be able to tell the CA bubble-brain from the interchangeable, surgically enhanced bottle-blonde they normally have on the show?

Susan Myers

May 14th, 2009
7:40 pm

DBG @ 7:36,

Totally interchangeable. I imagine Fixed Noise paid for that boob job. A boob job in more ways than one.

Cherokee

May 14th, 2009
7:44 pm

Whiner if you hate America so much – you and your friends are sure free to leave.

And yeah, Jay, to your topic, Georgia is *that* backward.

getalife

May 14th, 2009
7:51 pm

Crazy times.

First AA President.

Another depression.

Torture.

And now, perhaps another civil war.

The first one belongs in the 21st century.

The others are not.

Susan Myers

May 14th, 2009
7:52 pm

Some people are saying our country should get back to how it used to be and how it is supposed to be. What can they mean by that? This country is constantly evolving and changing – that is the beauty of it and why it has been so successful. This certainly isn’t the first time in history our country has expanded the role of federal government – in fact, it has been expanding since it was founded. This also isn’t the first time we’ve run large deficits with the budget. A lot of people wax nostalgic about the ‘good old days’ and about how things used to be so much better, when in reality, those ‘good old days’ never really existed. By most measures, our country is in better shape socially and (until very recently) economically than at any point in its history…

Gotta get through here, almost time for Keith Olbermann. I sure don’t want to miss a second of it tonight.

G’night.

N.J.

May 14th, 2009
7:56 pm

The only parts of California I would like to see drop into the sea are the areas between San Francisco and Los Angeles. Mostly Republican.

Amusingly most of the nations advanced technology comes out of either California or the Northeast. The south cant claim many contributions to the modern world. Its why they chose Florida to launch rockets from. No big loss if anything blew up or crashed on it. Same reason that they put all sort of biological mechanical factories here in Georgia. No big loss if some biological hazard breaks out, and the state passed laws so the companies cant be held responsible if they kill several million at one shot

N.J.

May 14th, 2009
7:59 pm

Another reason for the “secesh” talk is the latest polls for the 2010 Governors election. Oxendine and Barnes are pretty much in a dead heat in the latest Research2000 poll.

N.J.

May 14th, 2009
8:01 pm

What they mean by getting back to the way it used to be is taking the vote away from women, blacks and all other minorities, gays back in the closet, etc.

Pollsters are good at parsing bigotry and similar things.

I Report :-) / You Whine :-(

May 14th, 2009
8:06 pm

By most measures, our country is in better shape socially and (until very recently) economically than at any point in its history…

Susan Lyers- Yeah, I know, Bush was a pretty good president.

Matter of fact, a few more months of Obozo and Bush will be considered a great president.

DB, Gwinnettian

May 14th, 2009
8:10 pm

The only parts of California I would like to see drop into the sea are the areas between San Francisco and Los Angeles.

Actually, I don’t find the talk of any part of any state (or any part of the world for that matter) enduring some horrible natural disaster to be funny in the least. For the record. Bad enough when some secessionist cretin says it, but you? Are you really no better than that?

Dave R

May 14th, 2009
8:20 pm

What Bosch and others don’t realize is that those of us who are finally fed up with the ever-expanding reach of our federal Government is because of the HUGE expansion of powers in just the last 4 months. We never dreamed of $9 TRILLION deficits being spoken of as throwaway lines. We never dreamed of the Government taking over private businesses to the extent this one has. We never dreamed of a Congress that would abdicate their power when it suits them, and ignore the results of their actions when it doesn’t.

No one (except a few of us) could have predicted that the creep towards Socialism would become a full-fledged forced march in just 4 months.

It is time for some state to stand up and say “No more”. No more unfunded mandates. No more taking rights away from individuals. No more growth of the Federal power structure.

Maybe it’s time for Georgia or Texas to take the lead on this one.

DB, Gwinnettian

May 14th, 2009
8:21 pm

“Bush will be considered a great president.”

Filed with your other hilariously wrong predictions, Andy. Thanks!

Later, all.

Keeping It Real

May 14th, 2009
8:21 pm

WOW!! If the muslim terrorists were to read this blog, they would know how to defeat us. Just create situations where our fear and dislike of each other fuels the flame of a social civil war. I guess we Americans are just like everyone else…self preservation at any cost.

I guess the republicans who want to form an independent state are playing up to their constituents. However the confederate gray room for the the new Oxedine baby is a little scary. Did he really say that he was painting the baby’s room confederate gray? LOL.

Red Foreman

May 14th, 2009
8:22 pm

Georgia was a great place until the libtards like you Jay, infiltrated our state, polluted it, then whine about everything like a little school girl. Do us a favor and hop on that tard train to DC with Cynthia , so you can worship your savior, Presbo da Clown and that Wicked Witch of the West, Pelosi. You dont deserve to walk the same soil as us natives!!! EFF you Jay!

Dave R

May 14th, 2009
8:27 pm

Oh, and NJ? NASA built Cape Canaveral in Florida for two reasons. The primary one was that it was the closest sate to the equator, which would make launches more cost-effective for satellites going into equatorial orbits. The second was due to it’s large coastline which allowed them to fire rockets out over the ocean so as not to endanger humans during boost phases.

Kamchak

May 14th, 2009
8:34 pm

On Sunday May 3rd Andy posts “GFY” then says– no I didn’t swear “GFY”= good for you.

On Sunday May 10th Andy posts “POS” then says–no I didn’t swear “POS”= perverted obozo suckhole.

Andy: you have cursed on two Sabbaths in a row and then lied about it. Explain to me about your advocacy of the truth.

N.J.

May 14th, 2009
8:40 pm

The problem with Republicans and conservatives is that they talk about personal liberty all the time but have passed more laws that attempt to control personal behavior than Democrats have. Most anti gay laws, anti Drug laws, pretty much anti anything that has to do with personal behavior laws, have had been conservative issues, and not democratic. Conservatives with all their talk about small government, like big interference when it comes to personal issues.

On the other hand liberals dont give a damn about people personal behavior.

Starting with the Volstead Act, named after Republican Andrew Volstead, vetoed by Woodrown Wilson and then the veto overridden, and inspired by a bunch of right wing tea totalling religious whacko’s. The Rockerfeller Laws, after Republican Nelson Rockerfeller. The anti drug campaigns of Fiorello La Guardia, another Republican responsible for decades of absurd “Reefer Madness” propaganda about marijuana.

The only Democrat responsible for one of the early drug laws, the Harison Act was the son of Jefferson Davis’ personal secretary and a relative of Robert E. Lee. and the legislation was an extension of his religious teatotaling beliefs.

Of course many of these drug laws had their racist motivations, beleiving that blacks hopped up on any number of drugs would commit vile sexual acts on the flower of white womanhood.

And of course in the last three decades we had Ronald Reagan who in the interests of starting any sort of war, started the War on Drugs.

We have Nixon in 1970 and his Comprehensive Drug Abuse Prevention and Control Act, which reinforced narcotics penalties. While the Democrats prefered the less expensive rehabilitation and education methods.

During the mid 1990s, the administration of Democratic President Bill Clinton emphasized treatment for addicts while limiting support for overseas antidrug campaigns. Republicans, led by conservative Newt Gingrich of Georgia, the Speaker of the House, have argued that the administration’s approach fails to effectively diminish the supply of illicit drugs. Yet such hardline policies as determinate sentencing advocated by Republicans have resulted in a U.S. prison population proportionately larger than that of any other country.

About HALF of all Americans in people in federal prisons are in for drug offenses, approximately and in all jails about a million are in jail for some drug related crime, either possession of amounts that are deemed to be large enough to prosecute for intent to sell and which more often than not are merely for personal use (in some states having more than one joint or two joints is possesssion with the intent to sell, and having 20 dollars worth of crack cocaine broken into small usable pieces is also considered possession with intent to sell)

Every year in the United States 2 million people are arrested for some drug charge, the vast majority minor possession discovered during a traffic stop for some minor infraction:

This year, about two million people will be arrested for a drug offense. In a great number of these cases, young Americans guilty of nothing more than the possession of a politically incorrect intoxicant – ranging from marijuana to crack cocaine – will be separated from their families, stripped of eligibility for student aid, and eternally exiled from the world of gainful employment. This unfolds hundreds of times each day while we – the privileged – sip our martinis and dare wonder why they don’t make better lives for themselves.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/anthony-citrano/an-opportunity-for-presid_b_167140.html

Then when you add the number of people in jails for prostitution, etc, a true picture of these advocate of small government and personal liberties emerges. I want THEIR big government priorities off the American people’s backs.

Frederick Douglass

May 14th, 2009
8:47 pm

I hope y’all know that John Oxendine is a Lumbee indian, just thought I’d throw that out there in case he escaped a beheading or something.

jt

May 14th, 2009
8:53 pm

Atlanta + Federal Goverment = Detroit
Before the federal goverment was involved, Atlanta had more black millionaires than anywhere in the world. (After reconstruction and before the civil rights era.)

Dave R

May 14th, 2009
8:54 pm

And NJ, the Democrats are responsible for restricting our ECONOMIC freedom more than the Republicans restrict our PERSONAL freedom.

A pox on both houses. Some of us are just intellectually honest enough to see both sides. That doesn’t apply to you.

Mrs. Godzilla

May 14th, 2009
9:06 pm

About HALF of HALF of the folks in GA want to leave the union – again.
Cool! As my meemee in law says, “don’t let the door hit ya’ where the good Lord split ya’.

Since nearly three quarters of us think differently, you won’t get our Georgia. You will simply have to go.

I have already suggested Somalia, they really and truly could use you guys and gals. Perhaps Cuba, I’m pretty sure you could “take” Raoul. You might get the old Jonestown property as a foreclosure sale. Invade Monaco or Lichtenstein. The American Virgin Islands! That’s the ticket! Ya’ll should love that.

Are these 21st century secessionists crazy? Some. The others are ignorant or evil.

Whatever.

Here’s the door.

First:

http://travel.state.gov/passport/passport_1738_2.html

Then:

http://www.expedia.com/daily/hotels/default.asp

Such foolishness indeed.

(

I Report :-) / You Whine :-(

May 14th, 2009
9:06 pm

UpChuck- You are stalking me now.

This is not cool.

Perhaps you should seek medical attention, no?

Bosch

May 14th, 2009
9:10 pm

Get real Dave R. – your campaign of “no more” is complete bs. You’ve had your time with no talks of secession – you’ve had your chance and your line of ideology has failed.

It’s as simple as that.

If you were so concerned, you should have acted years ago, not when there is someone qualified and competent enough to do something to change our country in the right direction.

Your campaign of “no more” is too late. Now the grown ups are in charge, finally.

N.J.

May 14th, 2009
9:16 pm

Again, more B.S. American economic mobility has shrank to its lowest levels since Reagan, As a result of 30 years of Republican laws to create a wealthy corporate aristocracy 42 percent of American born will remain in the lower economic classes they are born into. Prior to Reaganomic between the Great Depression and 1980, was the period in which the most economic mobility existed. Again the result of a regressive tax code that concentrates wealth in the hands of investors, rather than producers of wealth.

Republicans have virtually created a stratified economic system in which neither opportunity or social mobility exists to any great degree, and the United States has the one of the lowest economic mobility ratings in the developed world. Economic mobility is inversely proportional to taxation. The lower the top marginal tax rate, the lower the economic mobility, the higher the top marginal tax rate, the higher the economic mobility.

To put it simply the Republican assertion that the harder you work the more chance you have of economic mobility has proven totally false for more than 100 years. Primarily due to Republican tax ideas which favor speculative investment over work, Wall Street over Main Street, and so on.

Which is why more people entered the middle classes during the high tax period between 1933 and 1979 and more have fallen from the middle class and into poverty during the presidencies of Ronald Reagan, Bush 41 and Bush 43. Hard facts that cannot be denied. The lower the tax rates, the more money becomes entrenched in the hands of a few people at the top and the higher the tax rates, the more money goes into the hands of workers because the only way the wealthy can avoid having their wealth taxes at high rates is to create wealth on main street rather than take the easy way of making money by speculation on Wall Street.

Both growing income inequity and social economic stagnation occur when the wealthy can suck more money out of businesses, which actually require them to do hard work to earn their wealth, and putting it into speculative markets, where the most work you do is call your stock broker.

Republicans create profits for the few, Democrats create wealth for the many, which is the TRUE method of raising every boat at the same time.

Republicans have killed the American Dream by lowering taxes on investment rather than labor.

N.J.

May 14th, 2009
9:20 pm

Every list of every economic indicator show this to be correct. When Republicans cut taxes on the wealthy they NEVER trickle it down by creating new jobs or starting new businesses. They invest in speculative ventures that make much more profit than the hard work of starting a new business, growing it etc,

Which is why growth of GDP has always been DISMAL under Republicans and low taxes, averaging two percent, and has always been twice as high under Democrats and higher taxes.

ALL the numbers prove this is so.

bob

May 14th, 2009
9:21 pm

what do you call it when cities like san fran are right now choosing to ignore the federal imigration laws and give sanctuary to illegals? how is that different from what georgia might choose to do if they don’t like some dictate from dc? is it ok if you have a liberal perspective on what you choose to ignore?

N.J.

May 14th, 2009
9:21 pm

Which is why FEWER people actually fall into the economic ranges which would require a social safety net under Democrats and more fall in those ranges under Republican tax agendas

bob

May 14th, 2009
9:23 pm

hey nj – if the government takes more and more of your income via taxes and redistributes it to the non-productive, is that trickle down economics!!

Taxpayer

May 14th, 2009
9:26 pm

The coneheads should be working on getting their spaceship repaired so they can head back to their home world — all 17 percent of them. I’m sure Oxendine can lead the way.

Kamchak

May 14th, 2009
9:36 pm

Andy

No. No medical attention needed. Stalking? I that something you desire? Never mind that’s not happening either. These blogs are archived, sport, so anyone who is interested in verifying my claims can go to Sunday May 3rd and Sunday May 10th and read for themselves your posts and the context in which you wrote them, and judge for themselves the veracity of my claims. You swore on the Sabbath and then lied about it, twice. For those who do not know: Andy = I report: you whine.

N.J.

May 14th, 2009
9:36 pm

Or as Rutgers economic historian, James Livingstone points out:

Then as now, these supply-side arguments have two defects. First, the history of the 20th century is the record of increasing productivity and output as functions of declining net investment. Economic growth doesn’t require greater investment after 1919, in other words, so it certainly doesn’t need higher profits or executive incomes. In fact, any shift of income shares away from labor and toward capital—any shift away from consumption and toward saving or investment—will be a cause of crisis, not of growth.

For if higher profits aren’t needed for investment in goods production (the “real economy”), they will force their way, as unruly surpluses, into the available speculative sites, for example into the stock market of 1926-29. Or into “high-end consumption.” Or into subprime mortgage lending. Whatever.

The recent private equity mania (“leveraged buy-outs” of publicly traded companies) exemplifies these three tendencies of overwhelming capital surplus, as Ben Bernanke often said before he took up his more taciturn duties at the Fed.

But the stock market has not been as reliable as long-term investors and short-term scalawags alike would want. The dot.com bust still spooks everybody except me, but I’m the historian who compares it to the crash of 1901-02. And how many yachts can a rich man steer toward his own private coast of utopia? Where else to turn? To the housing/mortgage market, of course, the available speculative site where prices were surging after 1995, even after the stock market tumble of the turn of the century.

Second, tax cuts have never, I repeat, have never caused increased investment—not in the 1920s, not in the 1960s, not in the 1980s, and not in our own time. The empirical record is uniform: net investment keeps falling no matter what. Don’t take my word for it. Consult Peter G. Peterson, a co-founder of Blackstone (a private equity group just gone public), and a former cabinet member under Nixon and Ford.

There is no cause-effect correlation between lower taxes and greater investment because, again, economic growth no longer requires, or even allows, increasing net investment. At the macro level, we can improve productivity and output just by replacing and maintaining our existing capital stock—we certainly don’t have to make any additions to it.

So to cut taxes for the wealthiest individuals is to invite them to place their augmented incomes in the hands of people who have no choice except to bet this new money on the available speculative site, in this instance on the housing/mortgage market. There’s no place else to put it if they want to get a return better than a savings account or a stodgy mutual fund. It was a “liquidity driven bull market,” as David Rosenberg, the chief economist at Merrill Lynch, puts it (FT 8/16/07). And it has regulated all others because the bulk of the surpluses generated by tax policy went there. When it turned, everything else did

http://hnn.us/articles/41985.html

The largest lie Republicans have ever told is that tax cuts for the wealthy create jobs and stimulate the economy.

Its false. The ONLY thing that grows this economy is the productivity of its labor force, not capital investment, not tax cuts.

Republicans attempt to confuse Americans by asserting that profit and wealth creation are the same thing. Not only are they not, high profits, according to Adam Smith are DESTRUCTIVE to an economy. It is better to prevent excessive high profits by taxation and encourage businesses to create more consumer by using high taxes to allow them only to avoid high taxes by hiring more employees or raising their wages, which will create more consumption.

The supply side argument that lower taxes creates a better economy has been completly been proven false by the economic catastrophes and scandals that occured during the Reagan administration when low tax rates resulted in speculation in REIT’s, caused huge numbers of hostile takeovers which destroyed hundreds of wealth creating businesses, the junk bond debacle, the failures of the S&Ls and not the last presidents insane tax cuts which are directly responsible for the speculation that caused the housing bubble and the current Great Depression. Because finally two economists from the liberal and conservative side of the economic world have states it, this is a depression and the only thing preventing the horrors of the 1929 depression is BIG GOVERNMENT.

Most B.S. Consevatives have no idea that 2 out of three dollars of all savings and other assets owned by the bottom 98 percent of Americans would have been completely lost had it not been for big government.

And the Republican assertions that an economy will come out of such an economic contraction by itself is false. There are plenty of historical examples of economies collapsing and the civilizations those economies upheld collapsed and vanished and no new economy rose up for centuries.

I Report :-) / You Whine :-(

May 14th, 2009
9:37 pm

Well isn’t this some rather odd lightening?

Quite a show.

Jay

May 14th, 2009
9:40 pm

NJ, the off-topic lengthy lectures aren’t really getting you anywhere…

I Report :-) / You Whine :-(

May 14th, 2009
9:43 pm

UpChuck- Do not be ashamed, there are many, many stalkers in the United States, most of them proud democrats like yourself.

I always wanted a stalker but I was thinking more along the likes of Carrie Prejean, funny how these things work out, isn’t it?

Now you just remain calm, help is on the way.

N.J.

May 14th, 2009
9:47 pm

Next you have to look at the range between the lowest tax rate and the highest.

When you have the lowest rate set at 15 percent and the highest at 30 percent, each addition of one dollar of income is taxed at a higher rate than when you have a range where the lowest rate is ten percent and the highest is 70 percent. In this case, the bracket creep is extended over a higher range of income and allows those at the lower ends to keep more of their money than those at the higher end, creating more consumers to drive an economy than in the alternative situtation which allows the wealthy to keep more of each dollar they earn then those at the lower and middle ends, therefore lowering the both the number of consumers and the amount of money they can spend.

Kamchak

May 14th, 2009
9:49 pm

Andy

You can lie, deflect, obfuscate all you want, but the fact remains, and can be verified, that you have broken at least two commandments on the Sabbath.

N.J.

May 14th, 2009
9:53 pm

The Republican focus on lower taxes for those in the upper income brackets turns the REAL economy on its head. Investment never drives and economy due to the natural limitations of markets where profits are high relative to average income. Its productivity and consumption that drives markets, not investments which merely drives profit, and impedes income earned by workers, which reduced consumption.

Which is why since Reagan became president real income has been relatively static, compared to worker productivity, which has increased by 69 percent since 1979, with no parellel increase of real income.

Prior to Reagan, income at all levels increased at the exact same rate as worker productivity. Tax cuts to the top have not trickled down to those at the working and consuming end of the economy

N.J.

May 14th, 2009
10:00 pm

Basically the Republican focus on tax cuts for the wealthy as well as focus on invesment as a method of making money as opposed to the capital formation that high marginal tax rates make necessary if the wealthy want to avoid being taxed when the remove money from a profitable business as personal income for personal use is what produces wealth for a nation,rather than profits for a few.

THe Republican ideal, taken to its natural conclusion creates nations with a very small number of extremely wealthy people and millions of people living at or near poverty, as occured in the free markets in America in the late 19th century. A few multi millionaires and millions living in squalor and disease ridden tenements

Thats the best Republican economics can offer

Frederick Douglass

May 14th, 2009
10:02 pm

In a nutshell N.J. @ 9:16, you essentially have people that earn $8.50 an hour calling themselves conservatives, and voting republican, and the
poor saps will never sit at the table with the high rollers. A rising
tide in this case only lifts the yachts, and waterlogs the row boats.

Taxpayer

May 14th, 2009
10:06 pm

Jay, are you hoping that a 17 percenter will provide you with some insight into their mindset. Trust me, you don’t want to go there.

ND

May 14th, 2009
10:06 pm

The Confederacy… a traditionalist body that sought to create a country in its own image keyed by wanting the right to oppress minorities and people they disagreed with.

Sounds a lot like the Taliban to me.

Jay

May 14th, 2009
10:13 pm

NJ, two off-topic posts per thread. It was the rule before you got here, and it remains the rule.

Taxpayer

May 14th, 2009
10:33 pm

How can N.J.’s posts be considered ‘off-topic’ when he is trying to address some of the (false) claims, made by the secessionistas, that taxes and debts and deficits are what they are up in arms about.

the evil rich

May 14th, 2009
11:02 pm

You want to talk nutty, how about electing NObama? At least GA had enough brains to go the right way!

Tom

May 14th, 2009
11:09 pm

Ahh. As always, NASCAR is well represented here today. You go guys!

EJ Moosa

May 14th, 2009
11:12 pm

Bosch@7:07

Lincoln did not care if slavery was eliminated or stayed, as long as no one left the Union. So you can try to play a race card if you must, but it seems to just be a joker. America’s “greatest” President also stomped all over the Constitution, the very same document he swore to uphold and protect.

Davo

May 14th, 2009
11:24 pm

Davo

May 14th, 2009
11:40 pm

“Secession, nullification … Is Georgia this crazy?”

After a week of cut-and-paste hack journalism Bookman decides to actually forward an original article. I don’t much care for the very premise but also think back to McCain 08…Country First…he had it wrong. It’s liberty first. Patriotism is for suckers; use your own freewill.

I would think that reguardless of the readers political leanings, it becomes obvious that Bookman is ashamed of living in Georgia.

AmVet

May 14th, 2009
11:45 pm

The traitors in Georgia have been particularly emboldened since Sonny “Pray for Rain” Purdue helped get their flag back. Granted, it’s no Stars & Bars, but we all know what it means…

“It was unpatriotic in 2003 to be opposed to the Iraq war.”

“Oh please. Many folks like to make this silly claim, but it doesn’t have much basis in fact.”

Mike, you must have missed those back to back O’Reilly shows in the run up to shock and awe.

The ones where BOR said that any Americans who kept protesting after the bombs started falling were unAmerican.

The next night he came on and made a “correction”. He said they were bad Americans.

At that point I gave up on the man…

WTF?

May 15th, 2009
12:07 am

Whatever happened to all the “Country First” crap the republicant’s were spewing during the election? I hop ethe GOP keeps it up. They are such traitors.

N.J.

May 15th, 2009
12:35 am

Five states produce 40 percent of the nations GDP. None of them are Georgia. Another five states added to this and you get 55 percent of the national wealth produced in ten states. California, New York Illinois Texas and Florida are the five that produce that 40 percent, add in the New England States and you get the 55 percent.

The entire set of premises given by the secessionists, are totally false. The State government gets back more than it sends to Washington DC in the income taxes of the citizens, but more than a third, and probably more like 40 percent of these states private sector income comes from various other federal money given to Georgia citizens and spent in private businesses. Social Security accounts for 15 percent of all dollars spent in Georgia businesses. Various other social transfer dollars amount to another ten percent. Medicare accounts for 35 percent of the income of hospitals and doctors offices. Tuitions in private colleges are paid for with Hope Scholarships and other federal dollars as are public universities. Universities and private companies receive billions of research dollars in almost every sector of the economy, from the biomedical industries to agriculture. Without these dollars, this state would quickly revert to Tobacco Road.

The ENTIRE State of Georgia GSP is less than 400 billion. The ENTIRE Southeast makes up 22.percent of the national GDP. California alone accounts for 12 percent with a state GSP of more than 1.8 trillion.

Texas has a GSP of 1.14 trillion just slightly more than New York’s 1.103 trillion Florida is next and the next five are Illinois, Pennsylvania,Ohio, New Jersey and North Carolina.

The net result of a Georgia secession whose economy is dominated by the blue area of Atlanta, would be to reduce the rest of the state to the status of a developing nation.

As far as the United States goes, the economic mobility in the UNited States is among the lowest in the developing world:

The American Dream Is Alive and Well … in Finland!

It’s harder to move up the economic ladder in the United States than in other wealthy countries. What happened to the American dream

…As bleak as the recent findings about our ability to move up are, the picture for American families would look much worse if not for the increasing number of women in the work force. Women, while still earning less than their male counterparts, have had far greater upward mobility over the past three decades, largely because they had farther to go to get to the same place. While men’s employment rates, hours worked and wages have been flat or declining during that period, all three measures have increased for women. Isaacs concluded: “Family incomes have grown slightly because the increase in women’s earnings has more than offset stagnant male earnings.”

The streets are paved with gold … in Denmark

Several studies released in recent years suggest that, contrary to popular opinion, Americans enjoy significantly less upward mobility than citizens of a number of other industrialized nations (some of the studies can be accessed here, here and here). German workers have 1.5 times the mobility of Americans, Canada is nearly 2.5 times more mobile and Denmark is 3 times more mobile. Norway, Finland, Sweden and France (France!) are all more mobile societies than the United States. Of the countries included in the studies, the United States ranked near the bottom; only the United Kingdom came in lower.

*********************************************************

THE CAUSES OF IT:

*********************************************************

Blame the “neos”

…Unlike inequality, which some classical economists and most conservative pundits dismiss as irrelevant, there’s broad agreement across the ideological spectrum about the importance of mobility. In the United States, where we take for granted levels of inequality and poverty that would be a front-page scandal in most advanced economies, the stakes are that much higher. It’s one thing living in a new gilded age when we all have a fair shot at ending up among the “haves,” but it’s something else altogether when a nation’s wealth is concentrated at the top of a rigidly stratified society. As Dalton Conley put it, the fact that parents’ wealth is the strongest predictor of where kids will end up “very manifestly displays the anti-meritocracy in America — the reproduction of social class without the inheritance of any innate ability.”…

…Three trends help explain why it’s so much harder to get ahead in America today than it was for previous generations of working people, and why it’s apparently easier to get ahead in more socially oriented countries: differences in education, the decline in union membership and loss of good manufacturing jobs and, more generally, a relatively weaker social safety net. Roughly speaking, the decrease in relative mobility from generation to generation correlates with the rise of “backlash” conservatism, the advent of Reaganomics and the series of massive changes in industrial relations and other policies that people loosely refer to as the “era of globalization.”…

http://www.alternet.org/workplace/70103/the_american_dream_is_alive_and_well_…_in_finland!/?page=entire

Those who shout the loudest about secession and taxation and the causes of the problems in America are basically full of hot air, and stale right wing propaganda.

Americans pay some of the lowest REAL income tax rates in the world. It has some of the lowest government involvement in daily economic life.

And this has caused a completely stagnant economic mobility as well as a society in which almost no opportunity to climb the economic ladder exists. It is, to put it mildly, “the land of little opportunity”

Every one of those so called “Socialist” nations of Europe and Canada provide more economic opportunity as well as more economic mobility

moonbat betty

May 15th, 2009
12:39 am

go N.J., go N.J.

N.J.

May 15th, 2009
1:10 am

And lets see how the State of Georgia replaces this:

It ranked 14th of 57 in military procurement contracts,

$1,766,000,000 in food and nutrition services,

$1,411,000,000 in education funding,

$1,800,000 in environmental protection funding and

$11,868,000 in military funding.

Total federal expenditures in 2005 were $59,846,000,000.

Now where are they going to get the money to secure their borders, pay export tariffs etc…

On the other hand, Georgias TOTAL tax burden, including all federal, state and local taxes is 14,570,573,000.

Or to put it simple, look at the total amount of federal expenditures in the state of Georgia (59 billion) and the total of ALL taxes paid in the state, federal, state and local (about 14.6 billion) and you see that Georgia would lose 3/4th of money that comes from government coffers. Or it would have to quadruple its state taxes in order to some how come up with the same money that goes into the economy.

This does not include the almost 7 billion that the state has been awarded in stimulus money. Georgia was the first state to put out its greedy little hands to get the money, while publically railing against it, and the first to set up government procurement offices for receiving and spending it

J.T.

May 15th, 2009
2:47 am

It seems that the recent support for secession in Vermont has received far less attention than the incidental references to states’ rights coming out of the more conservative regions of the country. I suppose that this is because Vermont is a decidedly liberal state and at least some of its citizens felt that the late administration was a danger to their civil liberties. Now that the government has changed hands, some dare to shout “treason” to those who are making the same argument as they did only a short time ago.

Both parties are hypocritical and both are responsible for the gross expansion of federal powers at the expense of the rights of the states and of the people. No one is calling for secession nowadays- that government should be based upon the “consent of the governed” is a view that has been almost universally rejected, at least in practice. It is considered treasonous to even suggest that the states and the people have rights, except of course when it is politically expedient to whichever party is out of power at the time.

I do not believe that the resolution passed in Georgia was a mandate for secession. I sincerely doubt that any of the senators in that state or any other would ever seriously consider that option, given that most of the country threw their lot in with the federal government a long time ago. It would not even be a practical solution so I wish people would stop making a political issue of it. I will say, however, that the confiscation of weapons (were it in fact to ever take place) would most certainly be a violation of the Constitution and a grievance as serious as those levied against England in the Declaration of Independence. But if the preceding posts are any indication, most of you would not stand up for the Constitution because that would be “treason”. At least there are a few senators in Georgia who gave it some thought.