New general, new approach in Afghanistan
The top U.S. general in Afghanistan, Gen. David McKiernan, has been asked to resign in a decision announced today by Defense Secretary Robert Gates and Joint Chiefs Chairman Mike Mullen. Gen. David Petraeus also concurred in the decision.
First, this is a big deal. McKiernan is a four-star general, and you don’t cavalierly move one of those big guys out of the way in so public a fashion with little effort made to dress it up. It reflects a deep discontent with his performance.
I suspect the breaking point may have been last week’s bombing attack on Afghan villages in Farah province, which killed more than 140 civilians, if you believe the Afghan government. In March, McKiernan was given tactical control — and thus responsibility — over such operations. And this most recent incident occurred just before Afghani President Hamid Karzai was scheduled to come to Washington for high-profile meetings with President Obama and congressional committees, which couldn’t have made the folks here at home very happy. It gave Karzai a lot to complain about at a time when we wanted to make Karzai’s performance the real issue.
McKiernan had also been pretty quick to deny that the Afghan civilians had been killed by U.S. bombs, suggesting that the Taliban had actually killed them with grenades. By this weekend, U.S. officials were walking back that explanation, explaining that the Taliban had used civilians as human shields against the bombing.
Those are two very different versions of events.
There’s no doubt that the Taliban use civilians as shields to provoke a US response. There’s also no doubt that it’s a vicious and inhumane way of fighting a war. But it’s also brutally effective in raising Afghan anger against the United States.
Why? It’s a good question, especially since the Taliban kill considerably more Afghan civilians on purpose than we do by accident. But the answer is rooted in human nature.
Afghans kill Afghans. They’re used to it — it’s a brutal place, and it’s been that way for centuries. But outsiders killing Afghans, even by accident — that’s something else again. That unites the Afghans against the outsider, which is exactly the response the Taliban is trying to inspire.
We should stop doing what the Taliban want us to do. Military experts are pretty clear that bombing targets from the air should be used sparingly if at all in a counterinsurgency. The Army’s counter-insurgency manual, co-written by Petreaus, advises commanders to use “exceptional care” when ordering such attacks. “An air strike can cause collateral damage that turns people against the host nation government and provides insurgents with a major propaganda victory,” it warns.
Tellingly, McKiernan’s replacement is Lt. Gen. Stanley McChrystal, known as an advocate of counterinsurgency doctrine.
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142 comments Add your comment
ty webb
May 11th, 2009
4:31 pm
Those 140 civilians got off easy. They could’ve been waterboarded.
Taxpayer
May 11th, 2009
4:39 pm
Let’s see. What the military needs are some new faces. Might I suggest McCain, Gingrich, and Cheney.
RW-(the original)
May 11th, 2009
4:49 pm
Wait until word spreads that all al Qaeda or the Taliban have to do to get Obama to shake up his command structure is to stage few civilian deaths.
Mike
May 11th, 2009
4:59 pm
If Petraeus, Gates and Mullen say this is the way to go, I’m not going to be the one to argue with them.
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 11th, 2009
5:00 pm
I’m no military expert but given his recent track record I would be inclined to defer to Gen. Petraeus’ judgement.
Jay is right; sacking a four star General is no small thing.
I Report :-) / You Whine :-(
May 11th, 2009
5:20 pm
We should stop doing what the Taliban want us to do.
You know, for once I agree.
See Surge, Bushie.
fearless fosdick
May 11th, 2009
5:20 pm
Where is the corporal when you need him?????
Kamchak
May 11th, 2009
5:28 pm
Le petit caporal is in his self-imposed exile at Elba.
George American
May 11th, 2009
5:37 pm
First the president of GM and now this guy, when will the Obamatang start dealing in an arena he knows something about? Like organizing community groups to rig election results
Mike
May 11th, 2009
5:43 pm
George –
“First the president of GM and now this guy, when will the Obamatang start dealing in an arena he knows something about? ”
Who are you talking about? Gates? Patreaus? Mullen?
GM is a private company and we should avoid having the government being involved there. The military, on the other hand, is an arm of the government. An arm of which Obama is Commander in Chief. He has a great team advising him and it is absurd to have a knee-jerk reaction against this move, unless you know something that Gates, Patreaus and Mullen don’t.
I Report :-) / You Whine :-(
May 11th, 2009
5:43 pm
As early as the end of this year, GDP may rise at a 3.5 percent annual rate, the same pace projected for all of next year, helped by a $787 billion stimulus package, the administration said in the report today.-Bloomberg
Anybody wanna bet?
Dusty
May 11th, 2009
5:44 pm
I think Jay tried CAVALIERLY (is THAT a word?) to understand military motives in Afghanistan. He did fairly well considering he is usually an anti-war advocate undercoverly.
As has been said, if Petraeus, Gates and Mullen are the three musketeers in this show, there’s a good plot coming. However, Afghanistan is no paradise and McChrystal has a rough road to travel. I worry for him and our troops.
caz1158
May 11th, 2009
5:47 pm
Fresh faces you say,my vote would be that great american-Murtha.Nothing says Apple Pie & support the troops more.
Taxpayer
May 11th, 2009
5:52 pm
Torture report contradicts Cheney.
Well, that’s because the report contains the truth.
AmVet
May 11th, 2009
5:53 pm
That 5:28 is pretty funny…
Before him I’ve never seen a blogger set up his own Nixon-like hit list of the blackballed!
I kinda miss Vandy Girl, just for the shock value.
I’ve got a bad feeling about escalating this situation in Afghanistan.
I’ve yet to hear of any kind of way of describing the parameters for success or for an end-game.
Political reconciliation? Yeah, riiight…
Sounds kinda familiar, doesn’t it?
Quagmire, Part Deux…
AFGHANCOVERED
May 11th, 2009
5:54 pm
The USA has to get the native People “on our side”. How? Give them what ever they want,and need. But any tribe that has a “radical,we kill all infidels” mulah in the local “mosques”. Stop right there.!! The people have to decide what is right and wrong among themselves. If they are going to go against the USA at every turn,and allow someone to preach hatred and death,”od infidels” to all its townspeople, then we shouldn’t provide anything to them. “It all Starts and Ends in their Mosques”. If they don’t change, we don’t change.
(”do I hear that instrumental; “WipeOut”being played somewhere here?)
Bud Wiser
May 11th, 2009
5:55 pm
Maybe if Obozo can find someone to chase the rabid dogs with a biscuit and a soft blanket, when they stop so we can pet them, they will like us more.
At this point, I would normally add something witty like “…and yeah, that’ll happen when monkeys fly out of Obozo’s butt…”, except that event may have already occurred (see Barney Frank), but I will not say it for the sake of redundancy.
Besides, I’m too busy these days playing Mafia Wars on Facebook.
Kamchak
May 11th, 2009
5:56 pm
AmVet
I believe that TuEsDaY vAnDy GiRl is Commie incognito
Midori
May 11th, 2009
5:58 pm
you witty, Bud?
a legend in your own mind…….
Midori
May 11th, 2009
6:00 pm
George American,
it appears that you’re the one who needs to stick with “what you know”.
you know, like flashing kindergarten kids?
caz1158
May 11th, 2009
6:02 pm
Midori-Sick,but humorous.
Tom
May 11th, 2009
6:04 pm
Another reminder, another fabulous success of BushDrunk and the inferiors who voted him into office. Stand proud, would-be Nazi Patriots!!
AmVet
May 11th, 2009
6:05 pm
Kamchak, considering the innumerable monikers in the past, it is certainly possible.
AFGHANCOVERED, Your point is the one I have been making for months.
To my way of thinking, the only way we are going to implement the desired change in these h&llholes is ONLY if and when the indigenous people account for 80% of the fight and the US military the other 20%.
Not the other way around like we are trying to do now…
Tom
May 11th, 2009
6:08 pm
AmVet: There IS no end to it. Bush and his fellow couch-cowards ensured the Middle East for us unto Eternity. Wiederbetaetigung!!
Taxpayer
May 11th, 2009
6:09 pm
In a sign that he has no intention of going away quietly, former Vice President Dick Cheney embarked today on a nationwide road trip in a sound truck equipped with a state-of-the-art bullhorn.
He was last heard shouting, while being driven off into the sunset, “Is you is or Is you ain’t mah constituency?
I Report :-) / You Whine :-(
May 11th, 2009
6:40 pm
A journey to the 11-ton Hubble carries more risk of being hit by space debris or micrometeorites than a flight to the International Space Station, as the telescope orbits at almost twice the height of the ISS.
The blooming idiots at NASA at it again, they are spending hundreds of millions of dollars and risking the lives of a bunch more astronauts, instead of just building a newer and better Hubble.
Our government, mindlessness in action.
Mrs. Godzilla
May 11th, 2009
6:40 pm
New guy has special ops backround. Smart. I want to know more about his involvement in the Pat Tilman case.
RW
If there is the slightest hint, the wee whisper of “all al Qaeda or the Taliban have to do to get Obama to shake up his command structure is to stage few civilian deaths.” as you put it, President Obama, the American military and you (I hope) and I will kick more ass than you can imagine. Such foolishness is beneath you. (I hope)
fearless, hi there!
I kinda’ miss …no wait…..yeah, I do.
Dusty
Cavalierly is most certainly a word. A great one. A perfect one for some circumstances. Look it up. Use it in a senrence. I will brag a bit. One of the good things about a serious parochial education, is that one of its core tenets is to teach students to WANT to think and learn. It starts quite simply. If you don’t know if something is
real word. Look it up.
>>Recently, Sean Hannity cavalierly suggested he be waterboarded for a
military charity”
Perfect word, used correctly. Ahhhhhhh, adjectives.
But as you know I can’t spell with a hoot, and my keyboarding skills
are average at best.
AmVet
I like the way you think. How do we do that?
Food and water? Shelter? Education? Drones? Tens of thousands of young Americans? I really would be interested in your thoughts.
Taxpayer
I know that old song.
In happy news
Mr. G home in 39 hours, 20 minutes. WahHoo!
getalife
May 11th, 2009
6:41 pm
Change is flying out of Washington and hope we do not fail like the cons want.
WhoCares
May 11th, 2009
6:44 pm
So does this mean that Obama? is accountable for what happens from here on out in Afghanistan.
jewcowboy
May 11th, 2009
6:47 pm
I report,
Actually Nasa wanted to let hubble die, as it originally only had a 8-10 year life, but let’s see which administration was in office in 2004 when the 10 year life span was up and requested NASA to extend the life of Hubble? Hmm, I wonder.
Tank
May 11th, 2009
6:48 pm
I suggest we start polling the local Afghan population to determine who they feel should be running tactical operations in Afghanistan. A few good focus groups will help get things back on track.
I also suggest President Karrzai set up an Engagement Office to get the people involved and to reach out to the insurgents.
Truth is, this general is just the fall guy for how liberals think the war is going. He’s only had tactical control since March. Plan on seeing a succession of military generals cut off at the knees as we focus group our way through this war.
So You Think Your Smarter Than 1st Grader!
May 11th, 2009
6:49 pm
NEWS FLASH!!! VP Biden responding to Pres Obama’s staement of Health Care System Costs being out of Control said “Heath Bar costs goin up?” VP’s office to offer retraction soon. Even after numerous media gaffe’s Obama say’s Joe’s still the right guy for the job-Huh????????? Any opening’s in Iraq for desert sand counter???
jewcowboy
May 11th, 2009
6:54 pm
One of the few smart moves that was done fiscally during the Bush years and just about the only thing done help science.
AmVet
May 11th, 2009
6:59 pm
Mrs. G,
I once knew a guy from Chile. He was here legally and was a common laborer. A dry wall hanger. But he was very responsible, worked VERY hard and took care of his family here and at home as best he could.
He was barely educated but in some ways was as wise as any educated person I have ever known.
He told me about his country and how the opportunities there were very limited.
But he told me he believed the answer was education. And that was this country’s great strength.
When people are better educated, they tend to talk their problems out rather than fight them out.
That always stuck with me…
With that said, I believe the problems in Afghanistan are intractable. My understanding is that much of the country still lives in conditions from the 14th century. Illiteracy rates are staggering. As is the poverty. As is disease and suffering. And that crazy religion only makes things that much worse.
We can provide assistance and do much behind the scenes, as we’ve always done.
But I am of the school of thought that losing American lives there is simply useless.
I wish to god I did, but I have no answers…
RW-(the original)
May 11th, 2009
7:02 pm
Mrs. G,
I’ve read your 6:40 over and over and don’t have the first clue what you’re trying to say or ask. It’s like you’ve taken your inner moonbat and coupled it with Paul’s writing style, but if you’d like to clarify I’ll stay signed on for a few more minutes.
Taxpayer
May 11th, 2009
7:03 pm
That Dick Cheney. Always sticking his two bits worth in where it don’t belong. Now, put down the mic and lay off the bull horn and go away before you get carried off — on a rail.
Well, at least that little fella looks like Dick, sounds like Dick, talks like Dick. Maybe that was his daddy.
@@
May 11th, 2009
7:14 pm
General Kiernan will probably be one of many, jay. They’re not gonna stop the bombing. At least that’s what National Security Adviser James Jones said:
Stratfor — Washington on Sunday rejected Afghan President Hamid Karzai’s demands to halt air strikes – a day after the Pentagon acknowledged that a recent U.S. strike killed as many as 130 civilians in western Afghanistan. That was the largest number to die in a single operation since the U.S. invasion in 2001. National Security Adviser James Jones said U.S. forces would use extra caution to avoid such fatalities in the future, but noted that Washington cannot tie the hands of its commanders and still expect them to fight the Taliban.
No more than 100,000 troops, sparse intelligence on the Taliban. What else can they do but wage an indiscriminate air power campaign?
Again from Stratfor: In other words, the United States does not have good options for leveling the battlefield and bringing the Taliban into negotiations. Add to this recent comments by U.S. Central Command chief Gen. David Petraeus, who said the United States lacks intelligence to distinguish between reconcilable and irreconcilable Taliban, and it seems unlikely that the Obama administration will be able to turn things around in Afghanistan as the Bush administration did in Iraq.
There was a reason why Bush didn’t make Afghanistan the battlefront and Obama just ain’t gettin’ it.
Susan Myers
May 11th, 2009
7:17 pm
It’s good that we have a president who is willing to adapt our strategy to deal with the changing situation on the ground. It’s obvious that the Bush strategery wasn’t working in Afghanistan.
@@
May 11th, 2009
7:19 pm
Whoops! shoulda been it seems unlikely that the Obama administration will be able to turn things around in Afghanistan as the Bush administration did in Iraq.
Much better.
Susan Myers
May 11th, 2009
7:20 pm
Wonder if old Darth Chucklehead will still get Secret Service protection in prison?
@@
May 11th, 2009
7:21 pm
A little experimentation…
it seems unlikely that the Obama administration will be able to turn things around in Afghanistan as the Bush administration did in Iraq.
Waiting…
@@
May 11th, 2009
7:23 pm
Keep tellin’ yourself that Susan.
LAB
May 11th, 2009
7:25 pm
Ahhh, the end of the GOP. This brand of politics is so much more damaging than the individuals who perpetrated it. The ideology has massively flamed out and should become a footnote in a political history book.
Handcuffs for the crooks, scrapyard for their idols.
@@
May 11th, 2009
7:26 pm
Silencing the opposition.
The Venezuelan political opposition is in a “state of alert” over the defense of free expression, Caracas Mayor and opposition leader Antonio Ledezma said May 11, El Nacional reported. Ledezma’s comments come in the wake of statements made by Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez indicating the government may take legal action against media outlets such as Venezuela’s Globovision for allegedly inciting political strife.
I Report :-) / You Whine :-(
May 11th, 2009
7:27 pm
Uh-huh-
In January 2004, O’Keefe said he would review his decision to cancel the final shuttle servicing mission to HST due to public outcry and requests from Congress for NASA to look for a way to save it. On 13 July 2004 an official panel from the National Academy of Sciences made the recommendation that the Hubble be preserved despite the apparent risks. Their report urged “NASA should take no actions that would preclude a space shuttle servicing mission to the Hubble Space Telescope”. In August 2004, O’Keefe requested the Goddard Space Flight Center to prepare a detailed proposal for a robotic service mission. These plans were later canceled, the robotic mission being described as “not feasible”.[120] In late 2004, several Congressional members, led by Sen. Barbara Mikulski (D-MD), held public hearings and carried on a fight with much public support (including thousands of letters from school children across the country) to get the Bush Administration and NASA to reconsider the decision to drop plans for a Hubble rescue mission.[121]
Liberals, geez.
Susan Myers
May 11th, 2009
7:33 pm
Dick Cheney wouldn’t recognize the truth if it walked up to him and let him shoot it in the face!
@@
May 11th, 2009
7:37 pm
Cute Susan….very cute
not to mention simple-minded in a childish kinda way.
@@
May 11th, 2009
7:38 pm
According an UNIFIL source, the total force in Lebanon is expected to drop to around 5,000 troops by the end of May.
Uh Oh! Netanyahu must be breathing hard.
TnGelding
May 11th, 2009
7:40 pm
RW-(the original)
May 11th, 2009
4:49 pm
Good grief! You sure have a weird perspective. How do you know it was Obama that wanted him fired? It sounds like to me it was pretty much a consensus.
Jay, is this what you meant to write?
There’s no doubt that the Taliban use civilians as shields to provoke a US response.
AmVet
May 11th, 2009
7:41 pm
Andy’s just miffed that NASA has participated in the VAST LIBERAL GLOBAL WARMING CONSPIRACY DESIGNED TO BANKRUPT THE USA!!!
And has wished them nothing but ill-will ever since.
I mean what the hell right do they have to turn their instruments wherever they please in an attempt to increase the knowledge of mankind???
And who are they to take exacting measurements of the shrinking ice sheets in the Arctic and In Greenland? And a variety of other compelling measurements and data collection?
And who are they to publish such findings?
And let’s face it good peeps, if anybody can show that the earth is not flat it is NASA.
And there is the rub for the deniers…
Taxpayer
May 11th, 2009
7:44 pm
Rep. Pete Sessions, head of the House Republican committee tasked with electing more GOP members, has a unique theory as to why unemployment continues to rise: Obama wants to wipe out capitalism. Deep into a New York Times item Monday about rising jobless numbers comes a theory that the Times gently refers to as an “argument” that “may indeed face an uphill fight.”
Sessions told the Times that Obama’s plan is to “diminish employment and diminish stock prices.” By doing so, Obama “intended to inflict damage and hardship on the free enterprise system, if not to kill it” as part of a “divide and conquer” strategy to consolidate power. The Times then follows with another understated gem: “Polls offer little evidence that Americans are prepared to accept those arguments.”
Well, perhaps Sessions should start praying to his Sun God or offer up a sacrificial lamb to a volcano. I mean, if the almighty Obama can do all that, then Sessions is going to need some mighty powerful mojo to overcome it.
I Report :-) / You Whine :-(
May 11th, 2009
7:47 pm
There is not a telescope in the world worth the lives of seven astronauts, build another one, despite what the babbling paranoid Republican hating obsessives would like you to believe.
Is this that hard to understand?
Mrs. Godzilla
May 11th, 2009
7:49 pm
AmVet
You may be right. We cannot change how cultures behave – at least in the short term. Perhaps the best we can do is continue to provide humanitarian aid and start setting a good example.
RW
The reason you couldn’t find a clue as to my question, is because there wasn’t one. It was a comment in response to yours.
Susan Myers
May 11th, 2009
7:49 pm
Cheney thinks he’s going to bully his way out of this. Don’t be fooled, he’s scared as hell.
TnGelding
May 11th, 2009
7:52 pm
I Report
/ You Whine 
May 11th, 2009
5:20 pm
It depends on what your definition of surge is.
The troop surge did little but get more of them killed. The other components were very effective, but have deteriorated since the Sunni tribes are off the payroll.
Bush blew it in Afghanistan, and nothing you can write will change that fact.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71JDVLJTuuk
Susan Myers
May 11th, 2009
7:53 pm
mikey @ 4:59
-If Petraeus, Gates and Mullen say this is the way to go, I’m not going to be the one to argue with them.-
I’m sure they’ll be ecstatic to know that.
I Report :-) / You Whine :-(
May 11th, 2009
7:54 pm
I sure hope that Obozo doesn’t “fix” Afghanistan like he “fixed” Chrysler.
That means he’ll turn 55% of the country over to the Taliban, bwahahahahahahaha, morons.
I Report :-) / You Whine :-(
May 11th, 2009
7:58 pm
TN- Be serious man, every time that Bush confronted the Pakistan border problem the liberals whined and moaned and propagandized in their wormy newspapers against American soldiers but now that Obozo is doing the exact same thing, it’s still the American soldiers being thrown under the bus, bwahahahahahaha, morons.
AmVet
May 11th, 2009
7:59 pm
“There is not a telescope in the world worth the lives of seven astronauts, build another one, despite what the babbling paranoid Republican hating obsessives would like you to believe.”
You don’t read much about this stuff do you Andy?
From NASA’s web site.
The James Webb Space Telescope (JWST) is an orbiting infrared observatory that will complement and extend the discoveries of the Hubble Space Telescope, with longer wavelength coverage and greatly improved sensitivity. The longer wavelengths enable the JWST to look much closer to the beginning of time and to hunt for the unobserved formation of the first galaxies, as well as to look inside dust clouds where stars and planetary systems are forming today.
It is much bigger and much more powerful than the Hubble – it has a 6.5-meter primary mirror. Launch is planned for 2013.
And looks who it is named after…
Susan Myers
May 11th, 2009
8:01 pm
What a desperate man looks like:
Cheney initially told Schieffer that he is taking such a public role because the issues are so important and he is receiving media inquiries, but later in the interview he suggested that there is a vacuum on the right in defending the controversial national security tactics used during the past eight years.
“If I don”t speak out, then where do we find ourselves, Bob?” Cheney asked. “Then the critics have free run and there isn”t anybody there on the other side to tell the truth.”
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0509/22343.html
@@
May 11th, 2009
8:01 pm
Susan:
Maybe you should go through your age regression therapy somewhere else.
TnGelding
May 11th, 2009
8:03 pm
George American
May 11th, 2009
5:37 pm
His success is really getting under your skin, isn’t it?
The GM CEO resigned because he had lost his effectiveness and had the wrong vision for the company’s future. The general needed to be removed because of his continued undermining of the effort and the Secretary of Defense asked for his resignation.
Gates said he asked for McKiernan’s resignation “with the approval of the president.” The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Adm. Mike Mullen, and McKiernan’s military boss, Gen. David Petraeus, both said they supported the switch. (AP)
Susan Myers
May 11th, 2009
8:04 pm
Cheney: “Bush did it, Bush did it, he signed off on it, it’s all his fault.”
Jay
May 11th, 2009
8:06 pm
Folks, please discuss the issues, not each other.
Midori
May 11th, 2009
8:06 pm
did you guys see Cheney throw Bush under the bus on television yesterday?
I’m watching excerpts now
Midori
May 11th, 2009
8:07 pm
LOL, Susan -
so nice, we said it twice.
jewcowboy
May 11th, 2009
8:07 pm
I Report
/ You Whine 
Man, Nasa needs to point the Hubble at you to study the largest blackhole of negativity.
Is there anyone,anywhere at anytime whose ever done anything right?
Dusty
May 11th, 2009
8:08 pm
Oh dear, I find that mz. Godzy has uncavalierly denigrated my education. Such discommbobulation can only indicate a surplus of margaritas in her celebration of the poor returning Mr. Godzy. But I shall surely keep her meandering misanthropic missiles in my SENRENCES (her word). Live it up, Mz. Godzy. Have fun!!
I guess that clears that up except…BOOKMAN…”cavalierly” is so awkward, it sticks out like a sore thumb! Yes!
Susan Myers
May 11th, 2009
8:11 pm
Midori @ 8:07,
Well, it does bear repeating, doesn’t it?
I Report :-) / You Whine :-(
May 11th, 2009
8:11 pm
There is actually three different scopes bidding to be replacements for the Hubbel which proves my point even more succinctly, why do the morons at NASA risk seven lives for an obsolete piece of junk?
Pure genius, I guess.
jewcowboy
May 11th, 2009
8:12 pm
I Report
/ You Whine 
The Hubble is the only telescope ever designed to be serviced in space by astronauts. As a fiscal conservative, why would you want to spend money when you do not have to? Unless you think Boeing or another defense contractor needsvto get an other corporate welfare bonus.
Dusty
May 11th, 2009
8:13 pm
Righttttt…Bookman says all you libs are acting UNCAVALIERLY. He’s rightly (but writes leftly). You libs should be put to bed without your milk and cookies. Now go!!
Susan Myers
May 11th, 2009
8:14 pm
I hope on Cheney’s country tour, everybody will get out an old shoe and show him how they really feel about him. I can’t wait for him to come to my town. I got just the right shoe waiting…
@@
May 11th, 2009
8:15 pm
Easily done, jay.
jewcowboy
May 11th, 2009
8:17 pm
I Report
/ You Whine 
Perhaps those astronauts should go hide in the bedroom under the covers so the big bad Hubble doesn’t get them?
It is their job, and they are not under orders to go. It is a job by choice. The JWST is not scheduled to be launched until 2013. If the world worked according to what you predicate, we would never have launched anyone into space to begin with.
Susan Myers
May 11th, 2009
8:17 pm
http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html
Well, if the shoe fits, Cheney…you and your buddy.
I Report :-) / You Whine :-(
May 11th, 2009
8:18 pm
jboy- What part of not risking any lives to service a piece of junk telescope do you not understand?
Paul
May 11th, 2009
8:18 pm
Seems to be a consensus if this is what Gen Petraeus, SecDef Gates and one or two others advocate, then they’re on board.
Problem is, the people cited (and others) are at odds with each other.
Early on, SecState Clinton and VB Biden argued against the policy the Obama Administration finally decided upon.
Now, it’s the Nat’l Intel Director, as @@ pointed out, who said “let the bombing continue.” We do notice he has not been sacked.
Gen Petraeus does not agree with the Obama Administration policy. It’s much more bigger, badder, conventional conventional conventional and spread democracy and support the main guy – rather like Bush in Iraq pre-surge.
So the folks cited by Obama supporters as ‘we trust them’ do not trust each other on this.
And now Gen Petraeus gets in another counterinsurgency guy. Well, no one’s never accused Pres Obama of never changing his mind…
But I have to agree with AmVet on this – a middle ages mindset with zero literacy and a tribal culture with a pre middle ages religion is no place to instill the finer points of Jeffersonian democracy. Or any other, for that matter. We need to deal the poker hand we were dealt – warlords, tribes, clans, payoffs – instead of trying to teach them bridge.
Susan Myers
May 11th, 2009
8:19 pm
Keep it up, Dick. At this rate, the G”No!”P will be extinct before the end of the year. If it works out, we’ll even let you prance around on an aircraft carrier with a “Mission Accomplished” banner. You can invite Rush to join you.
jewcowboy
May 11th, 2009
8:20 pm
I Report
/ You Whine 
Why do you assume it’s a piece of junk telescope? I assume you work at the Marshall Space Flight Center and are an aeronautical engineer.
DB, Gwinnettian
May 11th, 2009
8:22 pm
totally off topic, but next time Andy posts something retarded about global warming, this might provide a pretty good explanation as to why that sort of thing happens.
Something of a cottage industry has emerged on the right, however, to treat any period of below-average temperatures, even of a few days, as a point of evidence that global warming concerns are exaggerated. Meanwhile, normally fair-minded and intelligent conservatives like Michael Barone use weasel-worded phrases like “temperatures actually haven’t been rising over the past decade” while skirting over the fact that temperatures throughout the last decade have been significantly higher than in the past (each of the last 11 years has each been associated with above-average temperatures in the United States, although 2008 was only barely so). Nor are conservatives like Barone likely to mention that temperatures were above average in 2008 almost everywhere BUT the United States and Canada:
Paul
May 11th, 2009
8:22 pm
Hi Susan
Saw VP Cheney on a Sunday morning show. He noted it’s been six weeks since he’s asked interrogation memos be released and the only thing he’s heard is ‘we’ve begun the process…” In fact, he sounds a lot like Jay on this – stop the Obama Administration’s selective release and get all the memos out to let the American people decide who’s been telling the truth and who’s been… politicizing the issue.
Funny how the Pres can decide in days to release some memos but takes weeks to begin the process of deciding about others.
I’m not big on stonewalling and secrecy, whether it’s done by Republicans or Democrats.
DB, Gwinnettian
May 11th, 2009
8:25 pm
Is there anyone,anywhere at anytime whose ever done anything right?
I believe Sarah Palin winked at Andy. So there’s that.
I Report :-) / You Whine :-(
May 11th, 2009
8:26 pm
jboy- I own several GM vehicles and combined they have not had as many services done to them as the Hubble has, hahahahaha, what is it you liberals call American made cars?
Hmmm?
DB, Gwinnettian
May 11th, 2009
8:26 pm
He noted it’s been six weeks since he’s asked interrogation memos be released
Poor little Dick.
Maybe after Karl’s testified, he gets his little kiss-ass reports released? maybe?
DB, Gwinnettian
May 11th, 2009
8:26 pm
I own several GM vehicles
That’s generally necessary to keep one on the road at any given time.
Paul
May 11th, 2009
8:27 pm
Well, I suppose it’s time to ask the question of all those so pleased with Pres Obama’s and SecDef Gates’ and all the other regarding Afghanistan:
what, exactly, is our goal there?
Paul
May 11th, 2009
8:28 pm
DB Gwinnettian 8:26
Never thought you’d be the one to support keeping torture memos secret.
I Report :-) / You Whine :-(
May 11th, 2009
8:29 pm
Here I am, sitting on the screened in porch in the middle of May, thinking about pulling the infrared heater back out of storage because my toes hurt from the cold and I’m reading some dullard talking up moonbat global warming, and it hurts too much to laugh anymore.
jewcowboy
May 11th, 2009
8:30 pm
I Report
/ You Whine 
In addition the JWST will only send infared images vs. Hubble can image in visible and ultraviolet wavelegnths.
In addition, the NASA adminstrator who finally approved the mission was a Bush appointee. While Sen. Barbara Mikulski may have been the catalyst, The NASA adiminstrator that approved the mission was all Bush.
See I can use Wikipedia too
DB, Gwinnettian
May 11th, 2009
8:33 pm
Never thought you’d be the one to support keeping torture memos secret.
Well, Paul, there are a whole lotta classified docs out there. I’m sure if one were to cherry pick something that Cheney authorized, it’d cast him in a good light. Where’s the damn emergency, that Cheney’s fave gets release now?
You really put any stock in that guy’s story, that there’s a piece of paper out there that supports his notion of torture working? You really care? If so, why?
jewcowboy
May 11th, 2009
8:34 pm
“I own several GM vehicles and combined they have not had as many services done to them as the Hubble has, hahahahaha, what is it you liberals call American made cars?”
It’s been serviced 5 times since it was launched in 1990. I think that is a pretty good record for something orbiting the Earth in a most inhospitable environment.
jewcowboy
May 11th, 2009
8:36 pm
DB, Gwinnettian,
“I believe Sarah Palin winked at Andy. So there’s that.”
You betcha
AmVet
May 11th, 2009
8:37 pm
“I own several GM vehicles and combined they have not had as many services done to them as the Hubble has…”
Man these “refutations” such as they are, keep getting more and more lame.
They may continue to fight their modern day Scopes Monkey Trial and deny the irrefutable evidence, but we are going to keep building upon the discoveries of Ptomely, Copernicus, Newton, Magellan, Galileo and Einstein.
And there is not one damned single thing the ostriches can do to prevent it…
I Report :-) / You Whine :-(
May 11th, 2009
8:40 pm
Well, I just found out that even though a comment is apparently languishing in the Urinal’s high quality, world class spam filter, the blog nanny will still recognize it as a “duplicate comment.”
OK, you libs can get back to talking about your vast understanding and command of “technology.”
Paul
May 11th, 2009
8:40 pm
DB Gwinnettian
The Obama Administration has made the claim (and I see this phrased different ways, which is frustrating, because each claim means something different)
(and I won’t use the nebulous or loaded or ‘what procedure is he talking about’ word ‘torture.’ I’ll use the acronym for Spkr Pelosi’s methods – EIT – Enhanced Interrogation Techniques.
“we didn’t learn anything worthwhile from EIT.” Okay, then no prob releasing the memos.
“we learned worthwhile stuff we already knew.” Okay, then, no prob, release the memos.
“EIT didn’t work.” Okay, no prob, release the memos.
“We had plenty of time to find stuff out, so we didn’t need to resort to EIT.” Okay, then release the memos and see if officials felt they had plenty of time.
Why do I care? I’m just kinda interested in discovering the truth and less interested in who looks good or looks bad as a result.
jewcowboy
May 11th, 2009
8:42 pm
I Report
/ You Whine 
“Here I am, sitting on the screened in porch in the middle of May, thinking about pulling the infrared heater back out of storage because my toes hurt from the cold and I’m reading some dullard talking up moonbat global warming, and it hurts too much to laugh anymore.”
WOW! In addition to being an aeronautical engineer you’re a climatologist and meteorologist to boot. Where did you get your degrees?
DB, Gwinnettian
May 11th, 2009
8:42 pm
“Why do I care? I’m just kinda interested in discovering the truth and less interested in who looks good or looks bad as a result.”
Really? Sorry, when I hear “release the memos” I hear a whole lotta Fox Noise and not a lot of independent thought. But maybe it’s just me.
Later, all. Try not to shoot anyone in the face.
jewcowboy
May 11th, 2009
8:46 pm
I Report
/ You Whine 
“Well, I just found out that even though a comment is apparently languishing in the Urinal’s high quality, world class spam filter, the blog nanny will still recognize it as a “duplicate comment.”
I had the same problem a couple of days ago. If you just change a word it should go through. At least that was my experience. Really irritating though.
Paul
May 11th, 2009
8:49 pm
DB, Gwinnettian
Possibly in the morning you can clarify – but it sounds more like you’re happy the Obama Administration released the first round of memos, also happy they won’t release the analysis of what was learned or not learned.
The only ‘why’ I can come up with is you must think the unthinkable would happen: Cheney just might have a point. Which is unthinkable because, how would the Obama Administration spin that?