On Nancy Pelosi, torture and the truth
Washington and the blogosphere are all atwitter about whether and when House Speaker Nancy Pelosi was briefed by the CIA about the use of “enhanced interrogation techniques” on suspected terrorists.
Yawn.
Of course she knew. At some point, anybody who was paying any attention at all knew in general if not in detail what was going on. As early as January 2002, remember, the Bush administration was already announcing that it would not be bound by the Geneva Conventions in handling prisoners captured in Afghanistan.
Everybody knew. Most stayed silent. And those who stayed silent but now criticize are guilty of complicity or at the very least hypocrisy. Simple as that.
The latest brouhaha was touched off by release of a CIA document reporting that in 2002, Pelosi and U.S. Rep. Porter Goss — at the time Republican chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, and later CIA director — were briefed on the use of “enhanced interrogation techniques,” possibly including waterboarding. (The CIA also notes that the accuracy of that report has yet to be determined).
Pelosi’s office claims that in 2002 she was told only that such tactics could be used, not that they already had been used.
Oh. And the difference would be?
It’s impossible to get an honest, comprehensive, believable look at what we did, who knew what and who did what from this slow, selective leaking of documents out of the CIA or from the Obama administration. Too many people have too many friends to protect and enemies to harm to give that process any credibility.
We need a nonpartisan commission with top security clearance, subpoena power and the authority to grant immunity to those who testify honestly. Much of official Washington — Republican and Democrat both — have reason to oppose that kind of investigation.
It needs to happen anyway.
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120 comments Add your comment
I Report :-)/ You Whine :-(
May 8th, 2009
12:55 pm
We need a nonpartisan commission with top security clearance, subpoena power and the authority to grant immunity to those who testify honestly.
Oh, you mean like the 9/11 joke commission, with Jamie Gorelick sitting in judgment of herself?
Or perhaps we could get Janet Reno to look into it and proclaim that she has found no democrat wrongdoing?
Lying, party first liberals cannot be trusted to investigate anything.
They have too many other priorities, than to bother with national security.
Oh, by the way, there is nothing to investigate anyway, water boarding was perfectly legal and justified.
Case closed.
Logical Dude
May 8th, 2009
1:01 pm
If you are an interrogator, and you feel that you MUST torture to get the information in order gain critical information, then you MUST be willing to accept responsibility for that action. If you are an agency director, general, secretary of defense, or other decision maker in the process of green-lighting the torture; then you MUST be willing to accept responsibility for that action also.
If you save the day, then let that come to light. If you gained little credible information, let that come to light also. But in either situation, you MUST be willing to take responsibility for what you did. And why.
Personally, if I was in a Jack Bauer situation, I may use forceful techniques for the information, and if I save the day, I’d be willing to give my life for my country to defend what I did. If I’m not willing to give up my life for my country, then I shouldn’t put myself at risk by doing something with consequences such as death. Because torturers should be put to death.
Copyleft
May 8th, 2009
1:02 pm
If she knew it was going on, she’s a criminal accomplice just like everyone else who approved the use of torture.
Lock ‘em all up, every one! Waterboarding has never been legal, and torture has NEVER been justified.
Case closed.
Logical Dude
May 8th, 2009
1:02 pm
wow, First! (and second)?
Shawny
May 8th, 2009
1:03 pm
Fact 1 – Pelosi knew. Fact 2 – Pelosi denied. Fact 3 – Pelosi is a liar.
Shawny
May 8th, 2009
1:04 pm
Fact 4 – if this was a republican, Bookman’s comment of “yawn” would be one with a ‘little’ more barb to it.
booger
May 8th, 2009
1:07 pm
The issue here is Pelosi lied, and is leading the charge to prosecute.
I agree the whole thing is a yawn, but the democratic string pullers are out for blood and nothing less will do.
Midori
May 8th, 2009
1:07 pm
and Shawny,
what of the people who actually AUTHORIZED and PERFORMED torture?
are they innocent babes in the woods?
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 8th, 2009
1:12 pm
If she didn’t know then she’s incompetent. If she did then she’s being dishonest. Either way it’s not good.
As for getting a non-partisan commission with no axe to grind and no games to play, that ain’t going to happen.
Shawny
May 8th, 2009
1:13 pm
That would be a different discussion altogether, and can be debated. This discussion is about those that knew about it, held a great amount of political power, did nothing, and lied about it.
If we can veer from the actual topic, here is another great waste of our cash:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/05/08/government-funds-study-gay-sex-argentina-bars/
Please tell me again how it is more efficient to print money and/or borrow from China to allow the US govt to spend our way out of an economic downturn as opposed to taking that same money and giving it directly to the taxpayers?
Bosch
May 8th, 2009
1:17 pm
Midori,
Did you know that your birthday was on “National Waiting for the Barbarians Day?”
Mine is “Be Humble Day” – ha ha – mine’s better.
I checked with RW today – he’s preparing his lair.
Bosch
May 8th, 2009
1:19 pm
Copyleft,
You can’t lock up everybody who knew just because they knew – then we’d all be in jail. If she lied about knowing, that’s one thing, but just because she knew it – no.
TnGelding
May 8th, 2009
1:21 pm
Since we’ll never get to Bush and Cheney, we need to put it behind us. Obama should pardon all. He’s already apologized to the world community. Pelosi never should have been reelected. She and Reid need to be removed from their leadership positions. But who do you replace them with? It would almost certainly be someone just as flawed.
Midori
May 8th, 2009
1:27 pm
the hell with that, Shawny!!!
Obama used DIJON mustard on his hamburger!!!
WE MUST GET TO THE TRUTH ABOUT OBAMA’S FRENCH CODIFYING WAYS!!!!
Midori
May 8th, 2009
1:28 pm
ROFL, Bosch!
you nut!!!
hey!!
I thought I heard some off-key howling last night?
Maybe RW has joined a barbershop lupus quartet???
Taxpayer
May 8th, 2009
1:41 pm
Well, one step at a time when you have a problem to deal with. Step one: Keep the GOP out of power. The rest will come naturally.
Bosch
May 8th, 2009
1:43 pm
Midori,
He said for us not to worry, that the “Wolf Moon” whatever that means was in January – so tonight is the “Flower Moon.” Again, clueless, but he said he was going to prepare his lair for the celebration tonight. I asked him which flower he turned into.
Ya’ know? I think I’d really enjoy a barbershop lupus quartet – how ’bout you?
We were having fun on the earlier thread about National Prayer Day and he linked to a page that had all these crazy national days – and he mentioned that about your birthday.
Hey, speaking of Barbarians – you watch that show “Rome” on HBO, right?
I Report :-)/ You Whine :-(
May 8th, 2009
1:51 pm
Obama budget nixes aid for jailing illegal immigrants
Free the terrorists, free the perverts, free the illegal aliens, free the democrat cabinet nominee tax cheaters, free America from prosperity, gosh, I guess Obozo is bringing about “change.”
eewwww
Taxpayer
May 8th, 2009
2:09 pm
So, this rendition thing actually started with Reagan. Was that GOP Senator that threatened Holder with dredging up the past Clinton efforts also ready to dredge up the past Reagan efforts as well or is he just showing us what a POS he is. I think we should de-classify everything and be done with it. Let’s air the laundry.
The Reagan administration did not undertake this kidnapping lightly. Then-FBI Director William Webster had opposed an earlier bid to snatch Yunis, arguing that the United States should not adopt the tactics of Israel, which had abducted Adolf Eichmann on a residential street in Buenos Aires, Argentina, in 1960… In 1984 and 1986, during a wave of terrorist attacks, Congress passed laws making air piracy and attacks on Americans abroad federal crimes. Ronald Reagan added teeth to these laws by signing a secret covert-action directive in 1986 that authorized the CIA to kidnap, anywhere abroad, foreigners wanted for terrorism. A new word entered the dictionary of U.S. foreign relations: rendition.”
Corporal's Ghost
May 8th, 2009
2:09 pm
Much of official Washington — Republican and Democrat both — have reason to oppose that kind of investigation.
Which is precisely why this sort of thing needs to be done.
Fixed Jay’s typo.
DB, Gwinnettian
May 8th, 2009
2:10 pm
stoopit name field.
2.09 was mine.
Scooter
May 8th, 2009
2:11 pm
Andy,
If you want to free all of those people how about setting the soldiers free that got into trouble at abadaba prision!
jewcowboy
May 8th, 2009
2:12 pm
“Lying, party first liberals cannot be trusted to investigate anything.”
Unlike those angelic, honest and most competent conservatives. Jesus would cry if a Republican lied.
TnGelding
May 8th, 2009
2:15 pm
I Report
/ You Whine 
May 8th, 2009
1:51 pm
How about just deporting them?
Busy little beaver isn’t he?
Too bad there isn’t any brush to clear in his Chicago neighborhood to keep him busy. Or maybe he could take up bike riding. I hope he’s finding time for his afternoon nap.
jewcowboy
May 8th, 2009
2:15 pm
Taxpayer,
“Keep the GOP out of power.”
The GOP seems to be doing a fine job at that by themselves. Why mess with perfection?
Taxpayer
May 8th, 2009
2:22 pm
Good point, jewcowboy. In fact, I have not praised the GOP for a while now. So, I think that the GOP is doing a most excellent job of getting their message out to we the people. Spokespersons for the GOP, such as Dick and Rush, are the best things that have ever happened for the party. They should not change a thing, except maybe let Dick and Rush have more time to spread the GOP message. They should also consider recruiting Andie.
Midori
May 8th, 2009
2:23 pm
wow, Bosch!!!
Hey, speaking of Barbarians – you watch that show “Rome” on HBO, right?
I started rewatching it just Tuesday night!!
Watched two seasons of Star Trek, and had a hankering to watch ‘Rome’ again
Bosch
May 8th, 2009
2:25 pm
Midori,
I started watching it on HBO – good show – really racy – meow, meow. So it’s on DVD? Cool!!!
jewcowboy
May 8th, 2009
2:26 pm
Taxpayer,
Perhaps they could throw in Sarah Palin and Michelle Bachman for some diversity.
Carter is a Fool
May 8th, 2009
2:27 pm
Nancy Pelosi is torture. Queen Nancy, her imperial hippie. Of course she knew, but she did not remember.
Midori
May 8th, 2009
2:28 pm
yes Bosch – I got HBO just so I could keep up with the series.
When the
Midori
May 8th, 2009
2:30 pm
oops —
to continue:
when the DVD box sets becames available, I snatched them right up.
Did you hear? Rome may come to the ‘big screen’
http://www.slashfilm.com/2008/12/01/hbos-rome-to-be-resurrected-as-a-film/
I hope Vorenus comes back!!
Taxpayer
May 8th, 2009
2:31 pm
I like the sound of Bachmann/Palin (where I have assumed the given order based on a cat fight between the two prior to announcing their candidacy; Bachmann could take that wimpy Palin easily as long as Palin does not get both a gun and a helicopter.) 2012. It would provide for some very entertaining rhetoric on the campaign trail.
Mike
May 8th, 2009
2:33 pm
“And those who stayed silent but now criticize are guilty of complicity or at the very least hypocrisy.”
Actually, they are guilty of both.
That being said, it is clear that there was bi-partisan support for waterboarding and the efforts of those to lay it all at Bush’s feet are either ignorant or dishonest.
jewcowboy
May 8th, 2009
2:37 pm
Carter is a Fool,
Hippies do not wear Armani, even imperial ones.
jewcowboy
May 8th, 2009
2:38 pm
Taxpayer,
Unless Palin brought out her moose gun.
pat
May 8th, 2009
2:39 pm
A democrat does wrong and lies about it on national TV is always “yawn”, huh? The bigger story is that she lied about it, not once but many times, but don’t worry just keep excusing it.
“It’s alright, she’s a democrat we let things go when they are democrats..Repulicans? Well if they are not doing something wrong, we’ll go after the family! That’s how we roll.” ~ Love, The Media.
Roger C.
May 8th, 2009
2:39 pm
It’s amazing how many people are eager to jump to conclusions & start spewing hot venom at Nancy Pelosi. How many of you have actually read the memo? There are about two sentences in there that indicate Pelosi was at a meeting where they discussed Enhanced Interrogation Techniques in 2002. Does it raise questions? Yes. Does it prove anything? No. Let’s dig a little deeper & find out what they actually talked about & what kind of spin was put on the information by the CIA.
pat
May 8th, 2009
2:41 pm
Ya know, If pelosi were a true patriot and really loved this country, she’d commit suicide and spare us her stupidity.
Taxpayer
May 8th, 2009
2:45 pm
That’s right. Pelosi should have come out and admitted that the Bush Administration water-boarded one guy 183 times just as soon as she found out. Classified, or not. Hell, what would Cheney have been able to do to stop her — water-board her too. Have her locked up and tried for treason for releasing top-secret information during a war.
Mike
May 8th, 2009
2:46 pm
Roger C. –
“There are about two sentences in there that indicate Pelosi was at a meeting where they discussed Enhanced Interrogation Techniques in 2002.”
How many sentences does one need to state that Pelosi was informed of the program, despite her claims to the contrary?
“Does it raise questions? Yes. Does it prove anything? No.”
What would be satisfactory proof for you?
Midori
May 8th, 2009
2:46 pm
you first, Pat.
Mike
May 8th, 2009
2:48 pm
“That’s right. Pelosi should have come out and admitted that the Bush Administration water-boarded one guy 183 times just as soon as she found out. Classified, or not.”
Well, she didn’t have to tell the press in order to object, which she did not. She certainly should not have claimed that she was unaware of it, which she was.
Copyleft
May 8th, 2009
2:48 pm
I suggest that the Rabid Right really get behind their new all-female ticket: Bachmann/Palin Overdrive.
Should be a HUGE success!
Mike
May 8th, 2009
2:49 pm
Watch how quickly the press drops the storyline now that we know that Dems will be implicated too.
Jefferson
May 8th, 2009
2:49 pm
She ain’t gonna quit.
TnGelding
May 8th, 2009
2:50 pm
Mike
May 8th, 2009
2:33 pm
The buck stops there. They were just informing Congress, not asking for permission.
EVIL REPUBLICANS TIME IS UP
May 8th, 2009
2:52 pm
IF YOU BELIEVE IN WATERBOARDING I THINK WE SHOULD WATERBOARD THE REST OF THE GOP BECAUSE THEY REPRESENT BANKRUPT TERRORIST,WHO HAVE BANKRUPTED THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.
jewcowboy
May 8th, 2009
2:52 pm
“What would be satisfactory proof for you?”
Perhaps the veracity of the report should be determined as a start.
jewcowboy
May 8th, 2009
2:53 pm
“Watch how quickly the press drops the storyline now that we know that Dems will be implicated too.”
Yeah, just like they did with that whole Lewinsky matter. Dropped it cold. Never came up again because Clinton was a Democrat.