In my America, gov’t would not proclaim National Day of Prayer
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I’ve written before about the fact that we each have our own Private America, our own individual concept about what America means and how America ought to conduct its business. That’s why the charge that somebody else is “anti-American” or “unAmerican” is not entirely nonsensical, especially if that person’s Private America conflicts with your Private America. And out of that process of millions of Private Americas banging up against each other, we produce something that you might roughly call the Collective America.
In my own private America, in the way I was raised to think about this country and about religion, there’s something deeply distasteful about politicizing prayer, about judging people and politicians based on their eagerness to pray in public. That’s unAmerican, so to speak. In the private America of many religious conservatives, it’s not.
So when Barack Obama decided to mark yesterday as the National Day of Prayer, as other presidents have before him, with a proclamation but no public ceremony at the White House, some conservatives decided to make an issue of it, suggesting that Obama was being disrespectful and downgrading the importance of prayer.
“We are disappointed in the lack of participation by the Obama administration,” said Shirley Dobson, chairwoman of the National Day of Prayer Task Force. “At this time in our country’s history, we would hope our president would recognize more fully the importance of prayer.” Dobson is the wife of James Dobson, founder of Focus on the Family.
An anonymous White House officials defended Obama’s action, saying that “President Obama is a committed Christian and believes that we should be engaging Americans of faith in efforts to renew our country. He is following the tradition of Presidents Reagan, George H.W. Bush and others by signing a proclamation honoring the National Day of Prayer, while continuing to work with communities of faith to improve our country.”
In my Private America, even that goes too far. The president should not have to defend his faith to anybody, nor should anyone else. There’s also Scripture in Matthew that advocates private rather than public prayer, because those who pray in public are generally hypocrites trying to advertise their piety for secular gain.
The wisest discussion I’ve seen of the issue comes from Steven Waldman at Beliefnet, who writes that he has mixed feelings about a National Prayer Day:
“But having spent a couple of years now looking at the Founding Fathers and religion, my views have shifted. I now fear that while public prayer is supposed to ennoble politicians, it may just politicize, and therefore taint, prayer. Instead of uplifting politics, it downgrades religion.
The Founders were divided on this. Washington and Adams both issued prayer proclamations that went considerably farther than what Reagan (and Harry Truman) had done.
But Jefferson and Madison stopped the practice. Jefferson seemed worried about prayer proclamations violating the First Amendment. Madison did, too, but added another argument: it wasn’t good for religion. By offering prayer in a political context (including asking for prayers related to specific policy goals) Madison said prayer proclamations had politicized a solemn act “to the scandal of religion as well as the increase of party animosities.”
In describing why he resisted prayer proclamations, Madison said, “They seem to imply and certainly nourish the erroneous idea of a national religion,” he wrote. If Americans want to band together to pray, he said, they should do so but to bring about such prayer or gathering through the political process was “doubly wrong.” Madison reported that he had received many private letters urging him to follow the pattern of Adams and Washington, prompting him to fear that Americans “have lost sight of the quality of all religious sects in the eye of the Constitution.”
In other words, the private America of Madison and Jefferson conflicted with that of Washington and Adams.
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392 comments Add your comment
I Report :-)/ You Whine :-(
May 8th, 2009
8:10 am
It is the call of all Christians to witness their faith to the unsaved, what a perfect way to do it by focusing the secular world on the importance of prayer for one day, but Obozo wants no part of all that “nonsense,” I guess because he must not be a Christian.
Well, he is a “Christian” of political opportunity only.
DB, Gwinnettian
May 8th, 2009
8:16 am
It is the call of all Christians to witness their faith to the unsaved
Do it on your own time then. Not the gubmint’s.
Copyleft
May 8th, 2009
8:16 am
How about a National Day of Doubt to balance it out? The secular folks could spend it proselytizing everybody about the importance of logic and rational thought, and poking holes in all the superstitions people blindly embrace.
SuperDave
May 8th, 2009
8:18 am
Oh jeez, Jay
You done went and got him started.
Hey Whiner, why don’t we just go ahead and get it over with and have our government outlaw all other faiths except Christianity. That would be some great “witnessing” wouldn’t it?
Paul
May 8th, 2009
8:18 am
I guess I’m about as keen to hear politicians talk about prayer as I am to hear ministers talk about politics.
[[Shirley Dobson, chairwoman of the National Day of Prayer Task Force.]] So there’s the recurrent theme: person has a job, position of power in a big organization. Money and power can’t be threatened. Sigh.
Had a case here in Texas, groups brought suit against a school where the student body elected one student to offer a prayer before every football game (interesting concept….). Couple of denominations sided with the group bringing suit: Catholics and Mormons. Said it was a decidedly Baptist prayer. How does one really make anything ‘nondenominational?” I wondered if the Baptists would have sued if the girl who got elected had begun “O Mighty Odin….”
But thanks, Jay, for pointing out that our Founding Fathers weren’t in agreement on everything. Sounds obvious, but we’re regularly treated to those who begin “the Founding Fathers were not Christians, they were….” So even within the ranks there were differences of opinion.
But to me the key item in all this is: we have a President who’s quite the religious Christian. Talked about it on the campaign trail. Laces his speeches with it. That’s fine, rather like walking the talk. But it’s not the same walk as some of the other prayerful folk want him to walk.
Which is why I’m okay with what he’s doing on this issue.
Mrs. Godzilla
May 8th, 2009
8:19 am
It is the PRESUMED call of SOME christians to “witness” their faith all over everybody else.
Get a room…..ooops a I mean get a church.
SomaliDawg
May 8th, 2009
8:20 am
همهٔ افراد بشر آزاد به دنیا میآیند و از دید حیثیت Bookmanهمهٔ افراد بشر آزاد به دنیا میآیند و از دید حیثیت JT دید GENIUS.
Redneck Convertهم برابرند، همه دارای mountain oysters.
برابر یکدیگر با روح برادری رفتار Gerogian by Birthحقوق با هم برابرند، همه دارای اندیشه The Village People. HaHaHa.
Mike
May 8th, 2009
8:24 am
Off topic, but I find it amusing that the liberal media, which is so in love with the torture storyline is failing to report the story about the CIA revealing that Pelosi was aware of the program all along:
“Intelligence officials released documents this evening saying that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) was briefed in September 2002 about the use of harsh interrogation tactics against al-Qaeda prisoners, seemingly contradicting her repeated statements over the past 18 months that she was never told that these techniques were actually being used.”
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/capitol-briefing/2009/05/cia_says_pelosi_was_briefed_on.html
The lack of notice of this story from the media demonstrates that they care a lot less about torture than they do about bashing Republicans.
I’m looking forward to seeing Jay calling for Pelosi’s head. Riiigghht
Paul
May 8th, 2009
8:26 am
DB, Gwinnettian
I’ve a few friends who are fed gov’t employees. They tell me the Prayer Breakfast is early, before their normal work day. Don’t know if that’s the same in all agencies, but it sounds proper.
OFFTOPIC
Followup thought on our discussion a few weeks back, especially in light of the Miss California broohaha (you know, the Miss USA contestant who gave Pres Obama’s answer on gay marriage….). It’ll never happen, of course, but it seems to me if ‘marriage’ is, in our society, laced with all kinds of religious themes (any other area where the gov’t recognizes a ceremony performed by a minister of religion?) – well, let the union entered into by those who are joined by a minister be called ‘marriage.’ Those who go the civil route – same sex, other sex – call that ‘civil union.’ Let the law provide the same rights and responsibilities for both. If a church wants to perform ceremonies for same sex couples, fine and dandy. It’s their theology. They’re married. If a hetersexual couple doesn’t want to go the religion route and get married in the Vegas courthouse, they have a civil union – it was performed by civil authorities. Let the churches perform their ceremonies, let the gov’t perform theirs, let the couples perform their obligations.
Just a thought -
John
May 8th, 2009
8:29 am
What can it hurt? Pagans appease their gods if they have offended them. If there is a God that we need help and mercy from, should we as a nation try to get right with Him and show our dependence. The truth is the Almighty does exist and although He is loving and kind, and gracious, He is also holy, righteous and just. We need His mercy and grace extended to us through His Son Jesus Christ.
John
May 8th, 2009
8:31 am
“There’s also Scripture in Matthew that advocates private rather than public prayer, because those who pray in public are generally hypocrites trying to advertise their piety for secular gain.”
You mean like Obama praying at the Wailing Wall in Jerusalem during his campaign? Or maybe Obama attending church for 20 years in Chicago?
SomaliDawg
May 8th, 2009
8:35 am
حقوق با هم برابرند، همه دارای اندیشه و وجدان
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOrSqDwaUkc
Goldie
May 8th, 2009
8:42 am
Religion is a private matter and has no business being involved with governing… unless, of course, those churches who preach politics from the pulpit will give up their tax exempt status and pay like other political entities do. Our Founding Fathers were specific about keeping religion out of our government functions, otherwise we’d be living under conditions like what the Taliban has in mind for governing…
Mrs. Godzilla
May 8th, 2009
8:42 am
Mike
You really should read more left wing blogs. Many of us knew about the briefing years ago….
here’s an old piece about it….note the date
Congress Briefed on Waterboarding in 2002
By Nicole Belle Saturday Dec 08, 2007 9:30am
read it here:
http://crooksandliars.com/2007/12/09/congress-briefed-on-waterboarding-in-2002/
it contains links to the original Washington Post article
I Report :-)/ You Whine :-(
May 8th, 2009
8:45 am
Hey Whiner, why don’t we just go ahead and get it over with and have our government outlaw all other faiths except Christianity. That would be some great “witnessing” wouldn’t it?
DimBulb, Gwinnettian, That wouldn’t be very Christian of us, now would it?
You seem to have us confused with the religion of “peace,” we do not behead nor do we persecute those of faiths other than ours.
You know, like you liberals do to Christians.
Tolerance, moron, try it sometime.
Joey
May 8th, 2009
8:45 am
Jay and I rarely agree and when we do it usually regards specific points rather than the issue. This is one of those.
My Christian friends do not require a National Day of Prayer. They do, however, deserve a National Day of Prayer.
What causes are worthy of a National Day in the Obama Administration? What causes will result in President Obama observing a National Day?
I have confidence that, regardless of Obama’s choices, Jay will be out front leading the defense of those decisions, whether they need defending or not.
RW-(the original)
May 8th, 2009
8:46 am
So why couldn’t Obama just say it was none of our business instead of farming that message out to his lackeys in the media?
An anonymous White House officials How many officials is an An?
Joey
May 8th, 2009
8:46 am
Copyleft: I responded to your Baptist-torture question in that posting this morning.
Del
May 8th, 2009
8:46 am
Obama is not black – he is gray. He says one thing but his actions depict something else. Why in the world would a christian deviate from national prayer ? Is America so dumb to believe the propaganda that comes from news agency that Obama is a christian ? He is a muslim . . .no doubt about it.
GayGrayGeek
May 8th, 2009
8:46 am
Paul @ 8:26 – You mean, split the civil and religious parts of the “joining ceremony”? Like they do in most of Europe? Big Scary FEAR! FEAR! FEAR! Scary Europe that has the AJC’s new In-House WingNut Kyle peeing in his pants?
Yeah, I could definitely go for that. My hubby and I were married at the Canadian equivalent of city hall, by a justice of the peace, so we could obtain the civil privileges offered by our marriage.
Any church that claims that such a split is “forcing” them to do anything is just looking for a cover for their own discrimination.
Paul
May 8th, 2009
8:47 am
Mrs. Godzilla
I believe the difference is Spkr Pelosi has maintained all along she was told of techniques (when she’s talking about what she heard, she never, ever uses the word ‘torture’ even if it’s the same practices she calls torture when applied to the Bush Administration) – she says she was told of techniques that might be used in the future. She maintains she was never told they had been used.
The memos released last night indicate she was told what was being done to Abu Zubaydah.
So very weary.....
May 8th, 2009
8:49 am
I’m Catholic. I went to church to pray yesterday. It did not make my prayers any less meaningful because the President didn’t pray in public to grab more media attention.
SomaliDawg
May 8th, 2009
8:49 am
یکدیگر با روح برادری رفتار pornیکدیگر با روح برادری رفتار
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKRtHkQRkCg&feature=related
Tom
May 8th, 2009
8:52 am
These weak would-be Christian hatemongers forever lift some convenient babble from some deep place in the Bible and sieze upon it in order to demonstrate they are “following in the footsteps of Geesussah.”
Doesn’t work anymore, folks. Jesus would both weep and vomit at the sights and words of you.
SuperDave
May 8th, 2009
8:52 am
Paul at 8:26
The marriage/civil union idea I think is great. Ya think they’ll go for it? Not!
The only thing I’ll say on this topic is this:
You can tell the real Christians not by what they say, but by what they do when no one is watching.
Have a good day all.
lovelyliz
May 8th, 2009
8:53 am
“(But) take care not to perform righteous deeds in order that people may see them; otherwise, you will have no recompense from your heavenly Father.
When you give alms, do not blow a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets to win the praise of others. Amen, I say to you, they have received their reward.
But when you give alms, do not let your left hand know what your right is doing, so that your almsgiving may be secret. And your Father who sees in secret will repay you.
“When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, who love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on street corners so that others may see them. Amen, I say to you, they have received their reward.
But when you pray, go to your inner room, close the door, and pray to your Father in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will repay you.
jon
May 8th, 2009
8:55 am
Mrs. G,
We all knew about Nancy Pants-on-Fire being briefed about enhanced interrogation. The story is her recent denials.
I think Obama was correct in ignoring the National Day of Pretension, however I suspect he would have acted differently if it were October 2012.
Taxpayer
May 8th, 2009
8:56 am
Or, Gov. Sonny preying on the people of Georgia. If there were a God, Sonny would have been, at the very least, dumped on by a toilet flush from a low-flying C5-A.
We would do better with Conan the Barbarian as our deity. He talked soft and carried a big stick instead of the Dubya approach of big talk backed up by a little Dick — If I could only get them to de-classify these other documents, I could prove that I’m right, torture works. Too bad Conan was not born in America.
Mrs. Godzilla
May 8th, 2009
8:58 am
Paul….Jon…..
DUH….Many of us have been asking those same questions (again) for years…
SuperDave
May 8th, 2009
8:58 am
Whiner at 8:45
Who are you responding to?
You having brain fart again?
I’ll say it again:
You are an embarrassment to Christianity.
Last time I checked, the Bible doesn’t say liberals can’t be Christian.
Go…..Oh your are so not worth it.
Cherokee
May 8th, 2009
9:00 am
“It is the call of all Christians to witness their faith to the unsaved”
This from Mr. GFY – how’s that witness working for you, whiner?
Thanks Liz, you beat me to it. Jesus was surrounded by the Pharisees, who loved to loudly proclaim their special place in God’s eyes. Today’s “public prayer” types, like the Pharisees, have received their reward on earth.
Redneck Convert
May 8th, 2009
9:01 am
Well, I’m all for making people follow a National Day of Prayer. Baptist prayer. And make sure it ends with IN JESUS’ NAME so we can rub it in to Jews and other heathens. We’re the majority so what we say goes. I never expected this Obama to do it. He’s a Muslim so of course he don’t want to pray to the only true God. Our God, not Allah or some heathen God.
The founding fathers give us freedom of religion, not freedom from religion.
And tell this SomaliDawg he can kiss my hind end with his wisecracks. Have a good Friday everybody. And be sure to pray real loud before you stick it to them. That’s the Christian way.
SuperDave
May 8th, 2009
9:01 am
lovelyliz @ 8:53
AMEN Sister!!!
Paul
May 8th, 2009
9:07 am
Mrs. G 8:58
Asking ‘what’ for years?
Again, in the past, Spkr Pelosi said she was briefed only on plans, possibilities, not what had been done.
Nat’s securty memos released yesterday say she was briefed ‘these are the techniques we used on Zubaydah. This is how we tortured him.”
I wonder… I wonder… if this is correct, did Spkr Pelosi earlier demonstrate a ‘willful intent to deceive”?
Mike
May 8th, 2009
9:09 am
Mrs. G:
“You really should read more left wing blogs. Many of us knew about the briefing years ago….”
I try to avoid liberal blogs. This one is about all I can take
I also limit my conservative blogs to one: Newsbusters.org
I agree with the previous posters that the story is about her denials being proven false. My question is why the media who has been obsessed with torture is just flat out ignoring this story that definitely would have been a scandal if a Republican congressman was involved, let alone the Speaker of the House.
Mike
May 8th, 2009
9:10 am
Tom –
“These weak would-be Christian hatemongers forever lift some convenient babble from some deep place in the Bible and sieze upon it in order to demonstrate they are “following in the footsteps of Geesussah.”
Doesn’t work anymore, folks. Jesus would both weep and vomit at the sights and words of you.”
And you aren’t a hatemonger? It’s bad enough that you are a bigot, but you are also a hypocrite.
jasper
May 8th, 2009
9:11 am
Jay,
This is really a non-issue, establishment media is going to report any and all criticisms to O, and characterize the critics as far right extremeists. In this case you are actually right.
I’m just relieved that he’s not observing the day kneeling on a mat toward the East, at least not in public.
Newt des großen Kopfs
May 8th, 2009
9:14 am
Newt/Palin ‘12
I Report :-)/ You Whine :-(
May 8th, 2009
9:14 am
<i.SuperDave May 8th, 2009 8:58 am Whiner at 8:45 Who are you responding to? You having brain fart again?
Aahhh, yes, our totally helpless liberal friends, they ask for assistance as though I am the government-
I Report
/ You Whine 
May 8th, 2009 8:45 am ~~~~~~~~~~~DimBulb, Gwinnettian,~~~~~~~~~~~~That wouldn’t be very Christian of us, now would it?
~~~~~
Hear the Word of God, heathens-
Matthew 10.33. But he that shall deny me before men, I will also deny him before my Father who is in heaven
It’s like, duuuhhhhhhhh.
bozos
Mr. Snarky
May 8th, 2009
9:14 am
“It is the call of all Christians to witness their faith to the unsaved, ”
Last time I checked, the Constitution makes no mention of saving souls.
Mrs. Godzilla
May 8th, 2009
9:17 am
DUH….again, we have been asking what she and steny and jane etc knew…..not just about techniques but application….
BDAtlanta
May 8th, 2009
9:25 am
You seem to have us confused with the religion of “peace,” we do not behead nor do we persecute those of faiths other than ours. You know, like you liberals do to Christians. Tolerance, moron, try it sometime.
That might be the dumbest thing I’ve ever read. Some people see themselves as they want to be seen, not as they really are. They just can’t handle reality.
Whiner, open a history book sometime and turn off the Fox News.
jasper
May 8th, 2009
9:28 am
Mrs. G,
Semantics, shemantics, right? I’m sure she was preoccupied during these briefings deciding which military aircraft to take back to CA.
The good news is that inasmuch as this has become a liberal witch hunt, now you have an actual witch.
Mike
May 8th, 2009
9:29 am
Mr. Snarky –
“Last time I checked, the Constitution makes no mention of saving souls.”
It also makes no reference to anything about Black History Month. What is your point?
It is absurd that folks are so offended by this. Supporters of same-sex marriage often asks who would be hurt by it. Well,he is being hurt by a Day of National Prayer?
Mike
May 8th, 2009
9:32 am
BD –
“Some people see themselves as they want to be seen, not as they really are.”
I guess your point is that, despite their own views of themselves, Christians are intolerant? Some certainly are, but no more so than any other group. As Tom’s hate speech at 8:52 demonstrates, you don’t have to be a Christian to be intolerant.
ty webb
May 8th, 2009
9:33 am
Mr. Snarky,
So we can take this to mean you’re a strict constitutionalist?
GayGrayGeek
May 8th, 2009
9:36 am
Mrs. G – You obviously Just Don’t Get It. If the WingNuts hadn’t bothered to ask (or even think of) the questions, it’s impossible that any of us with functioning neurons could have done so beforehand.
After all, per the WingNuts, if Faux News hasn’t “thought” of something then it positively, absolutely could NOT have previously been thought of by anyone else. ANYONE else.
C’mon, Mrs. G – Get. With. The. Program.
Mrs. Godzilla
May 8th, 2009
9:37 am
jasper….yep they were tough times.
nancy worrying about planes, george clearing brush and cheney cleaning his shot gun.
Jodi
May 8th, 2009
9:38 am
2 Chronicles 7:14 “If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my pace and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.” 2 Chronicles 7:21-22 “Why has the Lord done such a thing to this land….People will answer, ‘Because they have forsaken the Lord, the God of their fathers, who brought them out of Egypt, and have embraced other gods, worshiping and serving them —that is why he brought all this disaster on them.’ ”
Welcome to “your” America! Death, destruction, debauchery, demoralization…….an Obamanation! Just wait…….one day!
Mike
May 8th, 2009
9:39 am
BD –
GayGrayGeek’s latest comments demonstrate that any group has intolerant members.