Peering into the Pakistani abyss
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The presidents of Pakistan and neighboring Afghanistan meet today with President Obama in Washington, and they have a lot to talk about.
The three men — and the countries they represent — share a common mortal enemy in the Taliban, but they have not had a common approach. Only recently has Pakistan even begun to acknowledge the threat posed to its existence by the Taliban, and its willingness to fight to protect itself is far from certain. Since Pakistan possesses a significant nuclear arsenal, that is of prime concern to the rest of the world.
“They can’t take over,” Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari reassured the world through CNN yesterday, referring to militants. “We have a 700,000 (person) army — how could they take over?”
Well, that army doesn’t mean much if Pakistan’s leadership lacks the will to deploy it. The Pakistani military is moving now against the militants only because enormous U.S. pressure was exerted in the weeks leading up to today’s summit. Zardari was made to understand that any chance of additional U.S. aid depended on showing a willingness to fight back.
Increasingly, you’re also seeing suggestions of a more direct role for the U.S. military in Pakistan. As CNN put it:
“Zardari also addressed his government’s apparent resistance to significant U.S. involvement on Pakistani soil. Recently, U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates observed, “There has been a reluctance on their part up to now. They don’t like the idea of a significant American military footprint inside Pakistan. I understand that. And — but we are willing to do pretty much whatever we can to help the Pakistanis in this situation.”
Over at the Daily Beast, Reihan Salam also dares to peek into the abyss:
“The danger for President Obama is that his presidency is, after a few short months, entering its LBJ phase. Faced with a mounting economic crisis at home, there is a real possibility that the Talibanization of Pakistan will force him to deploy U.S. forces amid a population that, to put it mildly, wouldn’t greet their arrival with flowers and chocolates. Obama’s commitment to his domestic reform agenda would be sorely tested by a shooting war in Pakistan, not least because the antiwar left would—very understandably—be in open revolt.”
That is the worst-case scenario, the result to be avoided at all costs. But if it comes, if U.S. troops do indeed have to be committed, the purpose cannot be to save Pakistan — only the Pakistanis can do that — but to secure its nuclear treasure that in the wrong hands could devastate the world.
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209 comments Add your comment
I Report :-)/ You Whine :-(
May 6th, 2009
8:21 am
Pockeestan appeased the Taliban and relinquished control of the Swat Valley to them, how did that work out?
duh
jt
May 6th, 2009
8:28 am
“but to secure its nuclear treasure that in the wrong hands could devastate the world.”
Cmon Jay- these weapons could not devastate the WORLD. You are sounding like the politicians leading up to the invasion of Iraq. I still think you are pretty cool though.
Susan Myers
May 6th, 2009
8:29 am
I say send Michele Bachmann over there. She can have some of her “wad orgies”, and everything will be A-OK.
jt
May 6th, 2009
8:34 am
I think, will all due respect, that Susan Meyers has some sort of latent desire for Michele Bachmann.
jt
May 6th, 2009
8:35 am
It is nothing to be ashamed of.
RW-(the original)
May 6th, 2009
8:36 am
That is the worst-case scenario, the result to be avoided at all costs. But if it comes, if U.S. troops do indeed have to be committed…
If it’s to be avoided at ALL costs then it never comes. So since the paragraph doesn’t really mean at ALL costs what is the point that gets to the Bookman seal of approval?
Susan Myers
May 6th, 2009
8:41 am
Michele Bachmann could take Carrie “loves porn, hates gay marriage” Prejean with her. What a wad orgy that would be! The Taliban would turn tail and run.
ty webb
May 6th, 2009
8:45 am
Jay,
Do we have a death count yet for our undeclared war with sovereign Pakistan. I would like to know the totals for both terrorists and innocents. Surely some journalist is looking into this, and keeping tabs.
Mrs. Godzilla
May 6th, 2009
8:47 am
There were times during the Bush administration when worry over the state of the world, more specifically the middle East, kept me awake at night.
With President Obama, I sleep well knowing that whatever the situation
he will do the right thing.
O knows.
Road Scholar
May 6th, 2009
8:49 am
Just tell the Pakistani’s that the Taliban are from India, or are in cahoots with India. Their paranoia will kick in and they will then fight the Taliban to the death. Why would any country covet Afganistan or Pakistan?
Taxpayer
May 6th, 2009
8:55 am
Mrs. G,
I’m with you. I have a lot more confidence in Obama’s decision-making skills after only a few months in office than I did with Bush after eight years.
georgian by birth floridian because I'm lucky
May 6th, 2009
8:58 am
Mrs. Godzilla the is a whole lot of confidence in any politician.
We are then to all assume that you think the right thing is to kill innocents for being in the same area as suspected terrorist.
Seems like the right call to me, funny how since we started sending in drones to bomb the activity of the taliban has picked up in pakistan. Well atleast there have been more reports of violence.
So do you think more violence is what the region needs.
jt
May 6th, 2009
9:01 am
“With President Obama, I sleep well knowing that whatever the situation
he will do the right thing. ”
I’m sure that this has absolutely nothing to do with your prescription “happy” pills.
I would like some.
Redneck Convert
May 6th, 2009
9:03 am
Well, I was mad as a hornet this a.m. when I found out this D.B. claimed I let Sister Dusty or even Bookman write my stuff for me. Now I like big women, being marryed to the missus and all, but I ain’t about to let Sister Dusty do my writting for me.
Anyhow, I say just drop a few atom bombs on Pakistan and our problem is solved. Without loosing any of our own troops. They’re all towelheads anyway, so who cares how many of them we kill? Let God sort them out. We can’t go letting Terrists get their hands on A-bombs.
And just to be clear, this was wrote by Redneck Convert, not Sister Dusty or Bookman. Have a good day everybody.
Bosch
May 6th, 2009
9:06 am
I like Road Scholar’s plan. Tell them they are really Indian militia in disguise.
I watched the Nic Roberson’s interview with Mr. Taliban last night. Pretty crazy. They are very confident, but they always are.
The Pakistani government worries me – are they in cahoots with them?
See wingnuts? This is the real WMD scenario and is real – not like Iraq.
jt
May 6th, 2009
9:08 am
Roads-”Why would any country covet Afganistan or Pakistan?”
Poppie.
jt
May 6th, 2009
9:09 am
US Troops are protecting fields of this lucrative crop.
DB, Gwinnettian
May 6th, 2009
9:12 am
I was mad as a hornet this a.m. when I found out this D.B. claimed I let Sister Dusty or even Bookman write my stuff for me. Now I like big women, being marryed to the missus and all, but I ain’t about to let Sister Dusty do my writting for me.
I’ll cop to advancing the notion that Sister Dusty and Redneck could be one and the same given the hilarity both contributors bring to the party, but never Jay.
(If only for professional reasons. Jay wouldn’t leave some of his best work buried in a comments thread.)
Tom
May 6th, 2009
9:13 am
Another gift from the crazed BushDrunk gang of non-thinkers, pretending they were in a corny John Wayne flick. Stupid BushDrunk and his crooks still babbles about establishing a functioning democracy in a country long torn apart by crazed civil war and long aflame with anchient religious differences and grievences, and hatreds. Just wait till our “troops” depart the extreme comforts of the Green Zone and “I’m tucked in nicely every nite, Ma.
Got mah cell phone, mah TV for Dukes o Hazard, Butthead, Bevis, King of The Hill, Thee Simpsons, other intellectual fare. I r a hero, Ma. Jus ask me. Jus wait’ll we leave! God bluss Murcuh!”
Bosch
May 6th, 2009
9:15 am
jt@ 9:08,
Funny. And I hear they have nice mountain views in Afghanistan. Some developer could create some fantastic mountain resorts with those views!
RB from Gwinnett
May 6th, 2009
9:17 am
Has anyone asked the question “where is this non sovereign group of terrorists called the taliban getting military grade weapons in quantities and quality to potentially overthrow a nuclear power?” It’s kinda hard to defend yourself against a group like that since you can’t attack them on their own soil when they don’t have any. Kinda like AlQ, huh? It would be funny to watch you mental lightweights on the left try to make Obama out to be some kind of hero for doing the right thing after you bashed Bush for doing the same thing, except this is serious business and it’s not funny at all. It wasn’t funny when you did it to Bush either. Obama might just have to become a war mongerer just like Bush was. Will you treat him the same way?
But, let me guess, we should get involved because they’re a threat to us when Saddam wasn’t? Puhlease….
jt
May 6th, 2009
9:21 am
It is always better for the heroin to be in our hands than the Taliban.
It’s called National Interest. We can only hope that our elected officials don’t sell out.
Susan Myers
May 6th, 2009
9:22 am
Bush’s failure, folks. Afghanistan and Iraqi Nam as well. Live with it.
jt
May 6th, 2009
9:23 am
RB Rot breath- Chill. The taliban ain’t gonna get you.
Swami Dave
May 6th, 2009
9:23 am
Ms. Godzilla:
We can only hope that your faith is well-placed. As one who disagrees with many of the principles upon which his ideas are based (namely: collectivism), I expect your trust is undeserved.
Time will tell.
-Swami Dave
Mrs. Godzilla
May 6th, 2009
9:25 am
georgian by birth floridian because I’m lucky
your assumption is wrong, your attitude is snarky and your name is long and silly.
jt
you into drugs? must be based on your comment. I don’t need happy pills but I suggest YOU take a good sense pill and a while you’re at it a reasonable attitude enema.
Joey
May 6th, 2009
9:27 am
I love that “President Obama entering his LBJ phase.
I agree, Bush is a lot like JFK. But let’s hope really really hard that Obama is not a lot like LBJ.
Ray
May 6th, 2009
9:29 am
Our latest foray into the Muslim world and we still have those who say that a threat does not exist. If you think Iraq was bad……. The Taliban is the gift that keeps on giving. They bolster their confidence by knowing that neither the Pakistani government nor the US is going to enter into the conflict. They are just like North Korea…. saying and doing everything that they said they would not do. This is kind of “peace loving” Muslim that is the most dangerous to us and to our allies and we still think that they will “listen to reason” and comply with civilized negotiation. Neither of these options is even in their vocabulary. And we worry about waterboarding three or four of these animals to protect American citizens. When you deal with these fanatics you must play by their rules to survive. That’s the only thing that they respect. They know that we now have a weak and indecisive president who wants to stuff flowers down their gun barrels. This is just the beginning. Do you realize that the way that the Muslim world is multiplying that by 2050 it is estimated that most of the countries in Europe, presently with a Christian majority, will be in the minority. Just like Kadafi (sp) stated,” We can take the whole continent of Europe without firing a shot”. We presently have 9M Muslims in the US. It is the fastest growing religion in the world. Does this tell you anything?
RB from Gwinnett
May 6th, 2009
9:30 am
jt, please feel free to post a reply to anything I post WHEN YOU HAVE SOMETHING RELEVANT TO ADD. In the meantime, don’t you have some government job to do?
N.J,
May 6th, 2009
9:32 am
Pakistan appeased the Taliban in Pakistan primarily because between the two groups that exist in both Pakistan and Afghanistan, the Taliban was more moderate than the various groups the United States supported. The mullahs who were the leaders of the Mujihhaddin in Afghanistan when the U.S. was trying to boot out, first, Babrak Kamal, the Afghani communist who would NOT allow the Russians into Afghanistan, and then the leader the Soviets put in his place. In either case, Afghanistan was a whole lot better under the rule of the communist government, whose sole purpose was to modernize, westernize and get rid of the religious fanatics in Afghanistan. Schools were opened, women were given rights they did not have, etc. The guys we supported against the Soviets were crazier than the Taliban ever was. The Taliban had massive support in Afghanistan after America simply left the region after the Soviets pulled out and they were virtually lifted to power on a wave of POPULAR support. They did not dictatorially take over. They were basically rather popular. Same thing in Pakistan. The Taliban are probably the most moderate of the Islamic fundamentalists in Pakistan, no more fundamentalist than lets say the American Christian Dominionists, who want a “Bible Based Government”, and the Muslims of Pakistan practice a rather 1960’s ish, almost HIPPY like “peace and love” sort of Sufi Islam. Their religious gatherings more resemble a religious Woodstock, or a Billy Graham Crusade for Christ than anything else. The majority of the muslims of Pakistan are rather like the “Jesus Freaks” of the 1960’s and 70’s. Peace, love and brotherhood.
Its a non violent, save your soul sort of religion that is practiced by the majority of Pakistani’s. Its only in the countryside, in what we would call the “backwoods” communities that you see a rather more conservative version of Islam in place and even that is not violent.
Radical Islam is rather a reaction to some very bad policies that the western world invoked during the years between 1950 and 2000.
In fact, Bin Laden’s second in command is a type of blowback that resulted from a primarily British, and partially American effort to raise up a charismatic Islamic leader who would inspire a revolt in the parts of the Soviet Union, in the Central Asian republics, which would rebel against the Soviet rule based in Moscow.It was part of the Cold War Strategy to get the Russians out of the Middle East.
The original group, the Muslim Brotherhood, was more of a pro Muslim social and education group before they were inflitrated and it was started suggested that the organization start to have a more “political agenda”. The rest is history.
GayGrayGeek
May 6th, 2009
9:33 am
Mrs. G – I believe jt needs a “Valiuma”, so he can be clean and calm in One Easy Application. Oh, and a good round of “Hooked On Phonics” so he can learn the difference between the words “secede” and “succeed”.
AmVet
May 6th, 2009
9:35 am
“Bush is a lot like JFK.”
???
Dave R
May 6th, 2009
9:35 am
Does anyone else yawn uncontrollably when NJ posts his nonsense?
Mrs. Godzilla
May 6th, 2009
9:37 am
Ray
Who exactly has said a threat does not exist?
Mrs. Godzilla
May 6th, 2009
9:38 am
GGG
I like your style!
George American
May 6th, 2009
9:39 am
The wimpy Obama policies of appeasement, talking, sucking up to the enemy, and making nice with the Euro-weenies need to be throw out!
Our world military needs to parachute in and kick some a$$. Some bombing is necessary too.
Susan Myers
May 6th, 2009
9:39 am
President Obama needs to ask himself what would Bush do, and then do the exact opposite.
Bosch
May 6th, 2009
9:39 am
Dave R.,
No, I rather like them, and I never see any of you try and discount anything he/she says – I think you’re just jealous.
Bosch
May 6th, 2009
9:41 am
George American,
That works in the show “24″ – that’s not real life.
Mrs. Godzilla
May 6th, 2009
9:41 am
Dave R
Not me. I don’t always take time to read him, but what he posts
is usually pretty damn good info.
Mr. Snarky
May 6th, 2009
9:41 am
Scary stuff. I’m just glad that most Pakistanis don’t support the Taliban, like the Vietnamese populace supported the VC.
jt
May 6th, 2009
9:43 am
Rot Breath- I thought is WAS relevant to calm your fears. I’m just trying to help. Again, you have nothing to fear from the Taliban. No american should shed blood there. 10 McDonald or Microsoft exeutives could accomplish what 100 battalions could do.
Mrs. Godzilla- I once had a wine enema in California. It wasn’t a chardoney afterwards. And I’m not into drugs.
Dave R
May 6th, 2009
9:43 am
I’m sorry. I meant when NJ RE-posts someone else’s nonsense.
And Bosch, I tear up his re-post phony assumptions when they need to be. Of course, you’d have to have reading skills to know that.
And Susan? If Bush stayed in office despite everything that everyone claimed he did, should Hope & Change do the exact opposite and resign in shame?
N.J,
May 6th, 2009
9:43 am
George American, to be honest, if the rest of the world decided unite against the U.S. odds are pretty good they would win, not us.
Together they have more nukes and could easily raise a much larger military force. Larger than our entire population if they wanted to, with weapons as good as ours in many cases, and in some areas, better than ours.
AmVet
May 6th, 2009
9:43 am
NJ, notwithstanding that sophomoric 9:35, do keep posting your information.
If the “experts” don’t want to read it, there is this handy little button on the keyboard called page down they can use.
Unlike how useless that aforementioned “contribution” is, I have read some very interesting information in your posts. Including some great corroboration about the corporate destruction of capitalism that I have written about.
When they beeotch about what you proffer, you’re doing something good…
jt
May 6th, 2009
9:45 am
GayGreekFreak- I finally secceedded in a remark from you.
Taxpayer
May 6th, 2009
9:45 am
N.J.,
You can lead the uninformed to the facts but you cannot make them learn from them (or apparently even read them).
Ray
May 6th, 2009
9:45 am
NJ,
Your compare the Muslim threat in Pakistan to the attempt by Bible thumpers in this country to have a “Bible Based Government”. I might point out to you that these Bible thumpers are not in the habit of cutting off the heads of their opposition or subjecting their women to ridicule. Comparing apples and bananas.
“Peace, Love and Brotherhood” with a Woodstock scenario. Yeah, right.
Susan Myers
May 6th, 2009
9:47 am
irrelevant one @ 9:35,
Why are you such a grumblecakes this morning? We had a mahvelous time last night. Now you apologize to N.J,.
ty webb
May 6th, 2009
9:47 am
Ah, the taliban is not really a threat, but if they are, it’s because of “western” influences of the last 49 years. Quick, someone get a hold of Marty McFly. He can take his car back in time, and right all of the western wrongs that caused this mess. Anyone got a flux capacitor?