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	<title>Comments on: Obama failing to defend torture law</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2009/04/30/obama-failing-to-defend-torture-law/</link>
	<description>An Atlanta blog with a little bit of opinion about a whole lot of things</description>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2009/04/30/obama-failing-to-defend-torture-law/comment-page-5/#comment-45139</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 14:33:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/?p=831#comment-45139</guid>
		<description>Torture happens in every war - And if you don&#039;t recall your history Mr. Bookman - even George Washington used and condoned torture to try to get info on British tactics and movements. The Great Union Army during the Civil War used torture to the extreme. I know from a letter that my gggreat grandmother wrote that she and 2 of her daughters were repeatedly raped by multiple union soldiers in order to get information on her husband and 3 sons - who were with the Confederate Army - which were camped nearby.  So - Mr. Bookman and the rest of you liberal &quot;love peace - not war&quot; jerks - war is hell. And despite what you think about &quot;America should be above such things&quot; read your freak&#039;n history books on war or just ask any Native American about what the Army did to their ancestors (Ever read &quot;Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee&quot;??)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Torture happens in every war &#8211; And if you don&#8217;t recall your history Mr. Bookman &#8211; even George Washington used and condoned torture to try to get info on British tactics and movements. The Great Union Army during the Civil War used torture to the extreme. I know from a letter that my gggreat grandmother wrote that she and 2 of her daughters were repeatedly raped by multiple union soldiers in order to get information on her husband and 3 sons &#8211; who were with the Confederate Army &#8211; which were camped nearby.  So &#8211; Mr. Bookman and the rest of you liberal &#8220;love peace &#8211; not war&#8221; jerks &#8211; war is hell. And despite what you think about &#8220;America should be above such things&#8221; read your freak&#8217;n history books on war or just ask any Native American about what the Army did to their ancestors (Ever read &#8220;Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee&#8221;??)</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2009/04/30/obama-failing-to-defend-torture-law/comment-page-5/#comment-44519</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 12:05:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/?p=831#comment-44519</guid>
		<description>Sorry, Jay, but you just can&#039;t jump over the fact that waterboarding is not really torture.  This entire controversy is nothing but political noisemaking.

Most of us wouldn&#039;t care if our interrogators ripped off a few arms to determine where the next attack will come from.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, Jay, but you just can&#8217;t jump over the fact that waterboarding is not really torture.  This entire controversy is nothing but political noisemaking.</p>
<p>Most of us wouldn&#8217;t care if our interrogators ripped off a few arms to determine where the next attack will come from.</p>
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		<title>By: Lil' Barry Bailout</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2009/04/30/obama-failing-to-defend-torture-law/comment-page-5/#comment-42994</link>
		<dc:creator>Lil' Barry Bailout</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 May 2009 11:04:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/?p=831#comment-42994</guid>
		<description>N.J.:  &quot;We know with ABSOLUTE certainty that since the death penalty has been reinstated, our society has murdered innocent people by applying the death penalty to them.&quot;
=

OK, N.J., name one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>N.J.:  &#8220;We know with ABSOLUTE certainty that since the death penalty has been reinstated, our society has murdered innocent people by applying the death penalty to them.&#8221;<br />
=</p>
<p>OK, N.J., name one.</p>
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		<title>By: Lil' Barry Bailout</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2009/04/30/obama-failing-to-defend-torture-law/comment-page-5/#comment-42980</link>
		<dc:creator>Lil' Barry Bailout</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 May 2009 07:28:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/?p=831#comment-42980</guid>
		<description>&quot;No one is above the law, and the president of the United States should be held to the strictest standard of all.&quot;

Hey Walter, you might want to remember that extraordinary rendition is still U.S. policy under this new administration.  Does your statement still stand, even thought it puts your Idiot Messiah in jeopardy?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;No one is above the law, and the president of the United States should be held to the strictest standard of all.&#8221;</p>
<p>Hey Walter, you might want to remember that extraordinary rendition is still U.S. policy under this new administration.  Does your statement still stand, even thought it puts your Idiot Messiah in jeopardy?</p>
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		<title>By: N.J,</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2009/04/30/obama-failing-to-defend-torture-law/comment-page-5/#comment-42741</link>
		<dc:creator>N.J,</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 May 2009 14:05:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/?p=831#comment-42741</guid>
		<description>The idea that:

&quot;This country has no values when we abort babies, approve of same-sex marriage, rob and steal from one another, allow millions to enter this country “illegally”&quot;

Is another absolute absurdity that is the result of Republican inconsistancies based on absolute falsehoods and false assumptions made by conservatives.

Republicans beleive its okay to own a gun and use it for &quot;self defense&quot; under all instances that they FEEL their lives may be threatened. Even during situations when the threat may not be real, and the person they may be kiling might be innocent.  The idea that they can shoot any stranger entering their home could mean they might be shooting someone who simply accidentally went in the wrong door.

They then equally assert that the unborn child is an &quot;innocent life&quot; which is based on a religious belief, but not a &quot;medical one&quot;. There are many cases in which a pregnancy OR even the unborn child is either harming the mothers health OR in the process of killing her, and many times when this is occuring this is not an innocent act. It is simply a part of the process of being born and in some cases, the truth is that the child is a &quot;naturally unborn killer&quot;. In all other cases, conservatives assert the right of every person to self defense, however, in the case that the unborn child is killing or causing extreme permanent damage to the mothers health and well being, they wish to deny the mother the medical equivalent of a handgun, and that is an abortion. Simply put, when the mothers life is under threat, when the child is harming her or even there is a threat to the woman&#039;s life conservatives revert to their idea that the woman&#039;s life is trash, and her killer is innocent. In the real world this is totally untrue. 
Read most conservative anti-abortion tracts (I will not call them pro life, because there is right to life they completly deny... the woman&#039;s) they assert that pregnancy is a natural and totally SAFE condition. Thats simply an outright lie, and any honest doctor will tell you this.

The Europeans at least are honest about this. Abortion should ALWAYS be an option. But as Democrats and most liberal assert, they should be rare, safe, and we should make certain that they are as infrequent as necessary, and that requires that the SOCIETY create the economic conditions that are &quot;pro-life&quot;...pro &quot;all life&quot; rather than indulge in the moral, ethical, and legal inconsistancies that conservatives always indulge in. The nations that are most liberal, have the most liberal abortion laws, the most liberal contraception laws, the most liberal social safety nets, have the lowest rates of abortion in the world, because abortion is available to those who are threatened by the pregnancy, inexpensive contraception is available on demand, as soon as a person is old enough to become sexually active, sex education, also mandatory  at the same age, and finally there are social safety nets that prevent a woman from needing to face the additional burden of needing to take care of a child, in circumstances when her own income will not even take care of her own needs.

The conservative position on abortion is not &quot;pro-life&quot; because it simply asserts that the only life that is of any value is the unborn&quot;.

Of course the idea of making immigration ILLEGAL was always based on an immoral act. Immigration quotas were instituted at a time when white Americans feared that the little brown, red, yellow and black peoples of the world would start coming here, their children become a majority, and then have the power to vote. If anything is immoral, it is legislation that denies poor, hungry, even starving people on one side of a border the right to come over to this side. These people are not threatening our own right to food, shelter and clothing, etc. They are threatening our assumed right to every luxury and comfort that the planet has to offer.

At least the Catholic Church is consistant here. They do not merely assert the sanctity of life, but the dignity of life, and assert that you cannot be anti-abortion and pro death penalty, anti-abortion and anti social safety net. anti abortion and anti national health care. Any Catholic who reads the positions the Catholic Church takes on this requires complete consistancy with regard to all life, not the relativistic position taken by the religious right. The Catholic Church finally states that if a community or society is going to oppose abortion, it has an obligation to provide the life that results with the necessities to live a full and dignified life and the minimum for this is sufficient food, housing, clothing, an education and dignified work to provide an income for those capable of work, and an adeqate income for those incapable of it. If the society requires that each unborn child has an absolute right to life, that same society creates an obligation for itself, and it is immoral to simply push that obligation onto the parents, once society has forced that life onto them.

Then conservatives say &quot;water board a war criminal&quot; of course the same way they support the death penalty. They assert that it is okay to torture ten thousand people even if  nine thousand nine hundred and ninery nine are  innocent, as long as they are also torturing single guilty person. This is their real position on the death penalty as well. We know with ABSOLUTE certainty that since the death penalty has been reinstated, our society has murdered innocent people by applying the death penalty to them.  Conservatives may say that is a shame, but they still insist that it is alright to kill them, because it was a mistake. 

In every position, conservatives take an unethical stance, in the guise of ethics, because of the shallowness in which they analyze the circumstances</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The idea that:</p>
<p>&#8220;This country has no values when we abort babies, approve of same-sex marriage, rob and steal from one another, allow millions to enter this country “illegally”&#8221;</p>
<p>Is another absolute absurdity that is the result of Republican inconsistancies based on absolute falsehoods and false assumptions made by conservatives.</p>
<p>Republicans beleive its okay to own a gun and use it for &#8220;self defense&#8221; under all instances that they FEEL their lives may be threatened. Even during situations when the threat may not be real, and the person they may be kiling might be innocent.  The idea that they can shoot any stranger entering their home could mean they might be shooting someone who simply accidentally went in the wrong door.</p>
<p>They then equally assert that the unborn child is an &#8220;innocent life&#8221; which is based on a religious belief, but not a &#8220;medical one&#8221;. There are many cases in which a pregnancy OR even the unborn child is either harming the mothers health OR in the process of killing her, and many times when this is occuring this is not an innocent act. It is simply a part of the process of being born and in some cases, the truth is that the child is a &#8220;naturally unborn killer&#8221;. In all other cases, conservatives assert the right of every person to self defense, however, in the case that the unborn child is killing or causing extreme permanent damage to the mothers health and well being, they wish to deny the mother the medical equivalent of a handgun, and that is an abortion. Simply put, when the mothers life is under threat, when the child is harming her or even there is a threat to the woman&#8217;s life conservatives revert to their idea that the woman&#8217;s life is trash, and her killer is innocent. In the real world this is totally untrue.<br />
Read most conservative anti-abortion tracts (I will not call them pro life, because there is right to life they completly deny&#8230; the woman&#8217;s) they assert that pregnancy is a natural and totally SAFE condition. Thats simply an outright lie, and any honest doctor will tell you this.</p>
<p>The Europeans at least are honest about this. Abortion should ALWAYS be an option. But as Democrats and most liberal assert, they should be rare, safe, and we should make certain that they are as infrequent as necessary, and that requires that the SOCIETY create the economic conditions that are &#8220;pro-life&#8221;&#8230;pro &#8220;all life&#8221; rather than indulge in the moral, ethical, and legal inconsistancies that conservatives always indulge in. The nations that are most liberal, have the most liberal abortion laws, the most liberal contraception laws, the most liberal social safety nets, have the lowest rates of abortion in the world, because abortion is available to those who are threatened by the pregnancy, inexpensive contraception is available on demand, as soon as a person is old enough to become sexually active, sex education, also mandatory  at the same age, and finally there are social safety nets that prevent a woman from needing to face the additional burden of needing to take care of a child, in circumstances when her own income will not even take care of her own needs.</p>
<p>The conservative position on abortion is not &#8220;pro-life&#8221; because it simply asserts that the only life that is of any value is the unborn&#8221;.</p>
<p>Of course the idea of making immigration ILLEGAL was always based on an immoral act. Immigration quotas were instituted at a time when white Americans feared that the little brown, red, yellow and black peoples of the world would start coming here, their children become a majority, and then have the power to vote. If anything is immoral, it is legislation that denies poor, hungry, even starving people on one side of a border the right to come over to this side. These people are not threatening our own right to food, shelter and clothing, etc. They are threatening our assumed right to every luxury and comfort that the planet has to offer.</p>
<p>At least the Catholic Church is consistant here. They do not merely assert the sanctity of life, but the dignity of life, and assert that you cannot be anti-abortion and pro death penalty, anti-abortion and anti social safety net. anti abortion and anti national health care. Any Catholic who reads the positions the Catholic Church takes on this requires complete consistancy with regard to all life, not the relativistic position taken by the religious right. The Catholic Church finally states that if a community or society is going to oppose abortion, it has an obligation to provide the life that results with the necessities to live a full and dignified life and the minimum for this is sufficient food, housing, clothing, an education and dignified work to provide an income for those capable of work, and an adeqate income for those incapable of it. If the society requires that each unborn child has an absolute right to life, that same society creates an obligation for itself, and it is immoral to simply push that obligation onto the parents, once society has forced that life onto them.</p>
<p>Then conservatives say &#8220;water board a war criminal&#8221; of course the same way they support the death penalty. They assert that it is okay to torture ten thousand people even if  nine thousand nine hundred and ninery nine are  innocent, as long as they are also torturing single guilty person. This is their real position on the death penalty as well. We know with ABSOLUTE certainty that since the death penalty has been reinstated, our society has murdered innocent people by applying the death penalty to them.  Conservatives may say that is a shame, but they still insist that it is alright to kill them, because it was a mistake. </p>
<p>In every position, conservatives take an unethical stance, in the guise of ethics, because of the shallowness in which they analyze the circumstances</p>
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		<title>By: Just Me</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2009/04/30/obama-failing-to-defend-torture-law/comment-page-5/#comment-42353</link>
		<dc:creator>Just Me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 15:56:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/?p=831#comment-42353</guid>
		<description>This country has no values when we abort babies, approve of same-sex marriage, rob and steal from one another, allow millions to enter this country &quot;illegally&quot; and say that is ok, lower our educational standards in other to &quot;close gaps&quot;, have generations of sick sex driven people possessed with porn and molesting children, carry-out crimes and ripping off people . . like Madoff.  Tell me where are the values that other countries look to America for.  I say if we need to waterboard a war criminal . . then do it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This country has no values when we abort babies, approve of same-sex marriage, rob and steal from one another, allow millions to enter this country &#8220;illegally&#8221; and say that is ok, lower our educational standards in other to &#8220;close gaps&#8221;, have generations of sick sex driven people possessed with porn and molesting children, carry-out crimes and ripping off people . . like Madoff.  Tell me where are the values that other countries look to America for.  I say if we need to waterboard a war criminal . . then do it!</p>
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		<title>By: md</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2009/04/30/obama-failing-to-defend-torture-law/comment-page-4/#comment-34460</link>
		<dc:creator>md</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 22:38:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/?p=831#comment-34460</guid>
		<description>Cindy,

Your president says it is. Any outrage there?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cindy,</p>
<p>Your president says it is. Any outrage there?</p>
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		<title>By: N.J,</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2009/04/30/obama-failing-to-defend-torture-law/comment-page-4/#comment-34411</link>
		<dc:creator>N.J,</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 20:42:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/?p=831#comment-34411</guid>
		<description>Another thing that Europeans are rather ticked about is that they get little thanks for the role they are playing in Afghanistan with their 60,000 troops compared to our 20-30,000.

There is a lot of talk in Europe about disbanding NATO because it no longer serves any purpose and so that these other countries will not continually be called by the U.S. to assist it in its unending efforts to be the worlds policeman.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another thing that Europeans are rather ticked about is that they get little thanks for the role they are playing in Afghanistan with their 60,000 troops compared to our 20-30,000.</p>
<p>There is a lot of talk in Europe about disbanding NATO because it no longer serves any purpose and so that these other countries will not continually be called by the U.S. to assist it in its unending efforts to be the worlds policeman.</p>
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		<title>By: N.J,</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2009/04/30/obama-failing-to-defend-torture-law/comment-page-4/#comment-34399</link>
		<dc:creator>N.J,</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 20:20:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/?p=831#comment-34399</guid>
		<description>Yes, conservative consistantly push for a weaker America from the point of view of liberals. 

You cannot be strong without friends and you cannot have friends if you are a bully.

The main reason that pirates captured an American captain off the coast of Somalia?

The Europeans got so sick of our attitude that they stopped patrolling the region for the United States. 

For a long time, in order for the U.S. to be able to position its ships so that they could provide support for the Iraq War, The United States asked Germany and France to take up a larger portion of the shared duties for policing that area as well as protecting access to the Suez Canal, and they were capturing all sorts of pirates and Al Qaeda terrorists trying to smuggle weapons and explosives in that area. Their citizens simply got tired of the abuse, and the governments pulled their naval forces out. The French cut back assisting from their base in Djibouti as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, conservative consistantly push for a weaker America from the point of view of liberals. </p>
<p>You cannot be strong without friends and you cannot have friends if you are a bully.</p>
<p>The main reason that pirates captured an American captain off the coast of Somalia?</p>
<p>The Europeans got so sick of our attitude that they stopped patrolling the region for the United States. </p>
<p>For a long time, in order for the U.S. to be able to position its ships so that they could provide support for the Iraq War, The United States asked Germany and France to take up a larger portion of the shared duties for policing that area as well as protecting access to the Suez Canal, and they were capturing all sorts of pirates and Al Qaeda terrorists trying to smuggle weapons and explosives in that area. Their citizens simply got tired of the abuse, and the governments pulled their naval forces out. The French cut back assisting from their base in Djibouti as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Mob_Barley</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2009/04/30/obama-failing-to-defend-torture-law/comment-page-4/#comment-34382</link>
		<dc:creator>Mob_Barley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 19:57:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/?p=831#comment-34382</guid>
		<description>&quot;Liberals can’t have it both ways. Waterboarding can’t be considered torture when late-term abortion never was.&quot;

waterboarding and abortion are no where near the same thing. Water boarding is torture (because it is cruel and inhumane.) late stage abortion is more like murder than torture. (torture and murder are very different- if john mccain died during his period of torture it would be called murder.)  

think before you type!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Liberals can’t have it both ways. Waterboarding can’t be considered torture when late-term abortion never was.&#8221;</p>
<p>waterboarding and abortion are no where near the same thing. Water boarding is torture (because it is cruel and inhumane.) late stage abortion is more like murder than torture. (torture and murder are very different- if john mccain died during his period of torture it would be called murder.)  </p>
<p>think before you type!</p>
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