A geography of distrust

Last week I was talking with someone who, like me, has worked at newspapers all over the country. And all over the country, we agreed, you find a certain degree of distrust between rural areas and the big, dominant city. Rural Oregon doesn’t think much of Portland. Upstate New York doesn’t think much of New York City. It’s a natural conflict and tension. I’ll bet much of France feels the same way about Paris.

However, we also agreed that here in Georgia, the distrust and even dislike of metro Atlanta in other parts of the state is particularly strong. That has real consequences, as we saw in the recent session of the General Assembly.

Well, the folks over at DailyKos just released a national poll on a seemingly unrelated series of questions. But if you look at the numbers for the South, they’re striking. And I think that in some way, they explain something about Atlanta’s strained relations with our fellow Georgians.

Here are the questions and results:

Do you have a favorable or unfavorable opinion of the city of San Francisco?
——————-Fav.— Unf.—No opinion
NORTHEAST……..72…..16…..12
SOUTH…………….48……42….10
MIDWEST…………70…..19…..11
WEST………………75…..14…..11

Do you have a favorable or unfavorable opinion of the city of New York.

————-Fav.— Unf.—No opinion
NORTHEAST……..80…..15…..5
SOUTH…………….46……44….10
MIDWEST…………72…..20…..8
WEST………………73…..18…..9

Do you have a favorable or unfavorable opinion of France?
————-Fav.— Unf.—No opinion
NORTHEAST……..71…..21…..8
SOUTH…………….43……51….6
MIDWEST…………67…..26…..7
WEST………………69…..24…..7

Do you have a favorable or unfavorable opinion of Europe?
————-Fav.— Unf.—No opinion
NORTHEAST……..74…..18…..8
SOUTH…………….45……48….7
MIDWEST…………69…..23…..8
WEST………………71…..20…..9

90 comments Add your comment

Corporal

April 13th, 2009
6:58 pm

Looks good to me. What’s the point?

I Report/ You Whine

April 13th, 2009
7:05 pm

Oh yeah, the Daily Kooks.

There ya go.

Corporal

April 13th, 2009
7:06 pm

P.S. to Jay:

You left off Auburn.

I Report/ You Whine

April 13th, 2009
7:07 pm

Now ask all the enraged, hysterical America haters up north what they think of Jawjuh.

Geez.

Bud Wiser

April 13th, 2009
7:10 pm

Like all polls, answers are skewed by the question; for instance, having lived in Northern California for 7 years, I love San Francisco as a beautiful city, great vistas, a lot to do, and great food. But live there? Never. A great place to visit, but their political structure has degenerated into utter chaos.

Therefore, answer: unfavorable, but unable by the structure of the question to deliver a real and factual opinion.

Same goes for all the others. I like Paris well enough, because I had pitiful French speaking skills, but I tried, and that seemed to hold me in good stead with the locals well enough. I absolutely adore southern France, and Lyon in particular.

New York I rate like SFO, but more expensive. The tax thing there may well cripple their economic standing as a ‘world’ city.

Europe? Haven’t seen enough to make a blanket opinion, but I liked what I saw for the most part.

So, I guess for me it goes back to the flawed premise of the question itself. I’ll opine on where I’ve been, but I won’t necessarily downgrade anything without reasons to back it up.

Simple questions for simpletons who want a yes-no to everything.

Taxpayer

April 13th, 2009
7:12 pm

Gee, and I was hoping that one of the questions would have been, just for fun, “Do you have a favorable or unfavorable opinion of anyone that does not look, act, think, etc., just like you?” Of course, I already know how the “South” polled.

Bosch

April 13th, 2009
7:18 pm

Bud,

I agree. I think those of us who don’t live in big cities, obviously don’t live in big cities, because, well, we don’t want to. Big cities are great for entertainment needs, but I would never want to live in Altanta, and to be honest, I’ve never even had the urge to visit New York.

But your right, that doesn’t mean I have an unfavorable opinion of New York or Atlanta, or even Europe – I like Europe, even loved being there, but I’m not so sure I’d want to live there. I like right where I am. I do wish there was more rail service out into the more rural areas, because that would certainly make me go to Atlanta more often, and I’d like to see more bike paths and more neighborhoods that could function as a smaller sub-city so we could walk more.

MadMadWorld

April 13th, 2009
7:21 pm

Wow, TP this coming from someone that thinks anyone with a conservative view is a nazi. A narrow minded person talking about somebody being narrow minded. Makes lots of sense.

RW-(the original)

April 13th, 2009
7:25 pm

And I think that in some way, they explain something about Atlanta’s strained relations with our fellow Georgians.

If you start with assumption that the Koz Kiddies had their polling company reflect an accurate cross section of rural and urban Georgians this poll wouldn’t come close to explaining that. In fact it would do just the opposite. Of course they gave you as little as possible in the way of information on how they reached those breakdowns so it looks like it was done for no other reason than to denigrate the south. Why do you suppose Koz and Jay B would be promoting such a notion? Could it be that in the south Republicans still get elected?

Ray

April 13th, 2009
7:26 pm

So, what’s the point? “Do you have an unfavorable opinion of Europe”? What a stupid question, probably asked by someone who wants to skew an opinion poll to his/hers point of view. I agree with Bud…. you can make any opinion poll produce the results that you want by skewing the audience, the nature of the questions, the people you poll or the end results you want to produce. It doesn’t have much credence Bookman….. try again.

Corporal

April 13th, 2009
7:36 pm

To “Bubba” Jay:

May I recommend “The Politically Incorrect Guide to the South (and Why It Will Rise Again)” by Clint Johnson …

Taxpayer

April 13th, 2009
7:36 pm

MMW,

If I were to even begin to think that you understand anything more substantial than what is crammed between your toes, then it would truly be a sign that this is a mad mad world. Nope. Not happening. Now, why don’t you go back to using your regular blogging name. Don’t be scared. I won’t bludgeon you too much.

Taxpayer

April 13th, 2009
7:40 pm

Did someone imply the someone needed help in denigrating the south. I think that the south has that matter well under control. Just ask Newt if you need confirmation of that. Hell, he’s written books on it.
Not to worry though. Martha White WILL rise again and if not,well, there’s always Viagra.

Corporal

April 13th, 2009
7:41 pm

Remember my conservatives friends, for some strange reason I haven’t quite figured out yet, self-flagellating liberals like to make themselves feel better by hating things American. It’s probably because they weren’t raised right and never ate enough BBQ but ……

I would like to see a poll of liberals with the question “Do you have a favorable or unfavorable opinion of America?

MadMadWorld

April 13th, 2009
7:47 pm

TP,

I just love keyboard cowboys like you. Come on, toejam jokes…really? My five year old can come up with better than that. Here’s what you do…go to your local elementary school and get some new material.

Corporal

April 13th, 2009
7:50 pm

Let’s All Sing Together Now ………….

http://www.bornagainamerican.org/

Jay

April 13th, 2009
7:51 pm

For what it’s worth, the regional breakdown is just one of many demographic subsets reported in the poll: age, race, gender, political ID, etc. It wasn’t by any means directed at the South. It polled 2,400 respondents, which is substantial.

Also, Taxpayer, I see no evidence that MMW is posting as a poseur.

Taxpayer

April 13th, 2009
7:58 pm

Thanks Jay. It doesn’t hurt to check now and then given that so many of them sound alike. I think I’d get more diversity in comments from Sybil than from some of these posters.

MadMadWorld

April 13th, 2009
8:05 pm

TP

Stealing my bit…another great one.

“Originality is for suckers” -TP

Corporal

April 13th, 2009
8:07 pm

Jay:

You’re spoiling all the fun.

Corporal

April 13th, 2009
8:13 pm

OFF TOPIC:

Oh, I just read where one of the terrorists was only a Junior Pirate who had not yet earned all of his merit badges. I guess that means the captain would have only been “juniorly” dead.

By the way, the youngest U.S. Marine killede in World War II was just shy of his 15th birthday. He was supposed to be in the 9th grade. I believe there was a sailor killed younger than that.

Taxpayer

April 13th, 2009
8:20 pm

Jay, from a quick scan of the numbers, there also appears to be a fairly strong correlation between the responses from the “South” and from the “Republicans”. That suggests that the polling must have favored rural areas more than cities. So, I think that they need to further refine the “South” to include the sub-category of “Rural South” or just change the current heading and that will likely be accurate enough for government work. Anyway, that leads me to MMW’s divined comment from me — southerners are Republicans are conservatives are nazis. There. You happy now. Maroon.

AmVet

April 13th, 2009
8:24 pm

Wait just a cotton pickin minute!

Mr. Bookman, are you asking us to believe that the xenophobes in Dixie have radically different (out of touch?) views from the rest of this nation?

Stuck in the past and stuck on stupid…

Obambi's TelePrompter

April 13th, 2009
8:25 pm

My little tard loves San Franfreako!

TGT

April 13th, 2009
8:30 pm

As long as we’re talking about polls, some recent George Barna reasearch (seen here) reveals the following:

Based upon an evaluation of more than a dozen religious beliefs of liberals and conservatives, consistent and significant differences are evident. Liberals are less than half as likely as conservatives to firmly believe that the Bible is totally accurate in all of the principles it teaches (27% versus 63%, respectively); to strongly believe that Satan is real (17% versus 36%); and to firmly contend that they have a personal responsibility to share their religious beliefs with others (23% versus 48%).

Liberals are also far less likely than conservatives to strongly believe each of the following:

their religious faith is very important in their life (54% of liberals vs. 82% of conservatives);
a person cannot earn their way into Heaven by doing good deeds or being a good person (23% vs. 37%);
their faith is becoming an increasingly important moral guide in their life (38% vs. 70%);
the church they currently attend is very important in helping them find direction and fulfillment in life (37% vs. 62%);
their primary purpose in life is to love God with all their heart, mind, strength and soul (43% vs. 76%);
Jesus Christ did not commit sins during His time on earth (33% vs. 55%).
Liberals are also much less likely than conservatives to believe that “God is the all-knowing, all-powerful creator of the world who still rules the universe today.” Only about half of liberals (55%) adopt that view of God compared to more than four out of five conservatives (82%).

Mike

April 13th, 2009
8:30 pm

AmVet –

Yes, Southerners should be tolerant like you. LOL

BDAtlanta

April 13th, 2009
8:31 pm

We socialists are going to take over the South first. SF and NY will have to wait.

Today Macon, tomorrow Conyers! We’re on a roll!

SuperDave

April 13th, 2009
8:43 pm

I think this poll may be influenced by the quality of education in much of the South. Many of the responders in the poll probably couldn’t even find those cities on a map, much less know enough about them to form a valid observation.

TGT 8:30
And so this poll means what?

mike

April 13th, 2009
8:49 pm

Anyone want to guess what the inverse of these polls would be?

What do New Yorkers think of the South?
What do San Fransiscans think of the South?
What do the French think of the South?
What do Europeans think of the South?

Take a look at the hateful comments of well-known intellectuals like Taxpayer and AmVet if you want some insight.

Tolerance is a two way street. Can anyone explain to me why the unfavorable opinions held of the South is so much more scandalous than unfavorable opinions held by the South?

Taxpayer

April 13th, 2009
8:49 pm

BDAtlanta,

Conyers? Macon, maybe. After all, they have art.

mike

April 13th, 2009
8:51 pm

Add SuperDave to the list of tolerant intellectuals whose example we should be following. LOL

The hypocrisy is laughable. If you people are so concerned about tolerance, why are you so intolerant?

mike

April 13th, 2009
8:52 pm

I can only laugh at Taxpayer braying about the lack of supposed lack of sophistication of Southerners. The guy doesn’t even understand the concept of compound interest.

Kamchak

April 13th, 2009
9:00 pm

Mr. Bookman

Do you see any evidence that anybody here is posting as a poseur?

Taxpayer

April 13th, 2009
9:06 pm

TGT,

What about Independents, Conservatives, Constitutionalists, etc. There are just too many to keep up with now that the GOP is so splintered.

I Report/ You Whine

April 13th, 2009
9:14 pm

(Crain’s) — Illinois is getting a jump on the federal stimulus program, claiming more than 12% of the road and bridge projects approved so far by the U.S. Department of Transportation.

You gotta have some way to pay back your hacks in Chicago, so whammo, unload the federal treasury Obozo.

ew

Corporal

April 13th, 2009
9:16 pm

OFF TOPIC …….

AmVet:

I posted this for you on an earlier thread and would sincerly appreciate your thoughts.

This is a short excerpt from “If Not Now, When” by Colonel (Ret.) Jack Jacobs (Medal of Honor – Vietnam).

It basically concerns the moral responsibility of general officers (i.e., the Joint Chiefs of Staff) when civilian leadership interferes with the tactical (not the POLICY) part of warfare. I would appreciate your thoughts……

“There has been much criticism of the civilian leadership for the midadventure in Iraq, and all of it is deserved.”

“What the Defense Department touted as a revolutionary and more effective form of modern warfare was merely a lame attempt to accomplish a big job with insufficient strength and poor understanding of warfare.”

“But if the Secretary of Defense wants to do something contrary to the best judgment of the general officers appointed to render advice, something so egregious that experienced military people know instinctively, if not from experience, that it is foolhardy or worse, who is left ot prevent disaster? Only those general officers!”

“If ……. any officer thought that the plan (2nd Iraq War) was unworthy, each had an obligation to his uniform, to the nation, and to the troops they sent to war to ensure that the plan was not executed. And if they thought that the plan was a good one, then they were fools. In either case, they failed this country.”

“Civilian control was established to prevent military domination, and the rules for following lawful orders are clear. Who would have thought that our real dnager was the civiilian hijacking of the military apparatus, snatching it from officers who were either too inept or too pusillanimous to resist? In this regard, one might hear an attempted justification asserting that it is more effective to be inside than outside the organization. Of course, if you’re outside, certainly you can’t affect anyting. But if you’re not effective inside, you might as well be outside.”

Military officers don’t have the right to determine policy or disobey orders under the Constitution of the United States but they do have the right (and duty on rare occasions) to resign rather than send their troops to slaughter. Colonel Jacobs is not talking rebellion here, or even insubordination. He is merely stating that there comes a time when you realize your duty and oath is to the Constitution – and I agree.

By the way, if you read “Derelection of Duty” by H.R. McMaster, you will remember that Commandant of the Marine Corps Wallace Greene (Vietnam era) stated his biggest regret is that the Joint Chiefs of Staff did not resign “en masse” over the policies of Johnson/McNamara. It would have caused such a public outcry and inquiry that it would have saved thousands of American lives.

Taxpayer

April 13th, 2009
9:18 pm

Then again, perhaps a simple presentation of some acceptable metric, say the SAT, may be sufficient to either prove or dis-prove SuperDave’s claim. Anyway, such a presentation of data from the resident nanny might go a lot farther in convincing the intellectuals in the audience than say, the incessant nagging. It’s just a thought…from an intellectual…I think. Yes, it’s admittedly hard for even someone such as I to follow the nanny’s posts. But, I do try.

jt

April 13th, 2009
9:21 pm

It’s all Capn Herb’s fault.

jt

April 13th, 2009
9:26 pm

The better place that one lives, the easier it is to be critical(or un-favorable) of another place.
If you live in the highest taxed city IN THE WORLD, any OTHER place is favorable.

TUESDAY VANDY GIRL

April 13th, 2009
9:29 pm

I grew up in Alpharetta and I have burning dislike bordering on abject hatred for Metro Atlanta. It’s normal to hate inferiority and dysfunction. The actual city of Atlanta appears to exist only as a jobs program, everytime a local black politician doesn’t get their way it’s “institutional racism”, and I haven’t even talked about our hockey team yet….

jt

April 13th, 2009
9:32 pm

Corporal- One comment on your 9:16.
The British Navy gets by this conundrum by having their military answer ONLY to Her Majesty the Queen.

TGT

April 13th, 2009
9:32 pm

SuperDave: Just more info. Draw your own conclusions.

Taxpayer: Barna’s poll only referenced “conservatives,” and “liberals,” which were self-identified based on social and political matters. There’s no mention of republicans, democrats, independents, etc.

TnGelding

April 13th, 2009
9:32 pm

Just another indication of how far we have to go.

Frederick Douglass

April 13th, 2009
9:46 pm

I didn’t know Alpharetta had a hockey team.

BDAtlanta

April 13th, 2009
9:46 pm

hehe…

The best part? It’s only been just over three months. These adorable hyenas can’t possibly sustain such a silly froth; in terms of extreme vitriol, there is nowhere left to go. Really, how do you top calling Obama a Satan Hitler Mussolini Lenin Iran-loving dictator hell-bent on taking away our guns and destroying capitalism as he forces everyone to drive a pink Prius to the Commie Hut to pick up our gay Chinese babies?

Are these laughable loudmouths not already shooting their little wads? And is that not, in a way, a brilliant strategy on the part of Team Obama, to burn out the nutball pundits early on and leave ‘em gasping and baffled and lost, as nothing sticks and the GOP sinks below 30 percent approval and the rest of us can continue to get some real work done? Sounds about right to me.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2009/04/10/notes041009.DTL

hehe…And the endless search for GOP direction will continue to meander on Wednesday…fun, fun

SuperDave

April 13th, 2009
9:47 pm

On my 8:43
Ouch!
Thought you guys might recognize a little sarcasm. Guess not. There is some truth to it though.

TGT
I’ll draw my own conclusions: Conservatives are more “religeous” than liberals.
Tell me something I don’t already know. Duh!

Something I heard a while back:
Religious people are afraid of going to hell.
Spiritual people have already been to hell and back.

Also, some of the most spiritual people I’ve known never go to church.

Corporal

April 13th, 2009
9:51 pm

SuperDave:

If they are “truly” Christians they ARE the church.

“Not everyone who calls me Lord, Lord shall enter the Kingdom …… “

Dusty

April 13th, 2009
9:55 pm

Oh please,just a minute. Wait until I stop laughing over Bookman’s statement, “It wasn’t by any means directed at the South.” No, of course not. He only mentioned “south” in every context under the sun but it was not about The South. Yes, sir, Mr. Bookman. If you say so, sir…

But, do let me answer Kamchak’s question to our fine NORTHERN gentleman Mr. Jaysonitus Ignasius Bookman: Do you see any evidence that anybody here is posting as a poseur?

Well, no, but several here are posting as a masseur! I can tell because they are rubbing me the wrong way.

AmVet

April 13th, 2009
9:59 pm

Corporal, thanks for the 9:16. Good stuff.

As a former fellow in arms, I appreciate the delicate dance between military and civilian leadership in this great country.

Sadly, weakass never-served, never-will politicians and the most craven chickenhawks in our long history are killing the dance.

Alas! The chaste and pure, the non-partisan defender of truth, the self-appointed blog-nanny and the ultra-bizarre demander in chief returns!

Apparently the troll’s been reduced to the point where his only “contributions” are to tell others here (but only “liberals”???) his most unfavorable but always non-biased opinion of them.

As if anyone cares????

The kid’s quickly becoming a blogging caricature…

Corporal

April 13th, 2009
10:06 pm

OH, THE HUMANITY ……………

HEADLINE: Secret Surveillance Stays …

“Obama’s supporters dismayed as administration invokes ’state secrets’ privilege to sheild eavesdropping programs — just like former President Bush.”

Jay

April 13th, 2009
10:07 pm

To Dusty and Kamchak:

No, no evidence of poseurs, other than the obvious ones. Nobody with dual hidden identities.

To Dusty: I am not what most would call a northerner. I grew up on military bases, and my father’s line goes back to the 1750s in the mountains of western Virginia.

Also, the word “it” in my comment referred to the poll. The POLL was not intended to ferret out info about the South, since region was just one of many breakdowns by demographic group.

Besides, how are the poll results “anti-Southern?”

SuperDave

April 13th, 2009
10:08 pm

Corporal: 9:51
Correct you are.

BTW
what are you digging for in your post to AmVet? 9:16
I can’t speak for him/her but I agree that military decisions/strategy should be left to those in the military. I think you have been a little hard on Obama regarding rules of engagement for the pirate take down. Not having been on site, we don’t know exactly what the snipers were told. I think the administration would HAVE to say they were authorized to shoot only if the captain were in “imminent danger.” Otherwise it might look like they were killed without justification. My guess is that they were told to “take out” the pirates the first chance they got. What do you think?

AmVet

April 13th, 2009
10:08 pm

Vandy, Atlanta in some ways represent the very best and the very worst of the struggle by blacks to finally get some justice and quasi-equality in this country.

There have been numerous disappointments in Atlanta’s black “leadership” as well as some damn fine people.

I guess this is not really a surprise, given the centuries of brutal oppression, lynchings, thievery and murders by a malicious white power structure that had to be taken down by them and liberal Northern whites.

And fortunately, I personally will never understand, nor agree with, your misplaced and stunningly dishonest outrage and hatred…

Taxpayer

April 13th, 2009
10:10 pm

TGT,

The opening paragraphs in your link:

People’s interest in – and reactions to – the social and political actions being made by President Obama and the Democratic-controlled Congress have heightened awareness of the different perspectives held by liberals and conservatives. A new study conducted by The Barna Group indicates that those differences are related to substantially different spiritual beliefs, behaviors and alignments.

Overall, the research shows that nearly one-third of all adults (32%) consider themselves to be “mostly conservative” on social and political matters, and about half as many (17%) claimed to be “mostly liberal” on such matters. The other half of the adult population generally takes a position somewhere in between those opposing viewpoints.

I note that “Obama” and “Democrats” are emphasized yet there is no mention of Republicans or Independents. Afterward, the language shifts to liberals and conservatives but there is nothing linking back to the mention of Democrats and Obama. Also, there is a note that half of the people fall in between liberal and conservative yet there is no mention of how that group as a whole polled relative to the (extremes, for lack of a better word) of the populations of liberals and conservatives. These are just a few items that would tend to make me question the usefulness (perhaps) of the polls. Still, some interesting results. Plus, I noticed that this group identifies itself as a “for profit” group but I did not see who funded the study. Did I miss that.

Frederick Douglass

April 13th, 2009
10:11 pm

“Weakass barely-served, never-will politicians and the most craven chickenhawks”. That kind of sums up Bush/Cheney to a tee, thanks AmVet.

RW-(the original)

April 13th, 2009
10:12 pm

2400 might be a sizable sample for a national poll over an election or a question of general feeling about an issue, but it’s minuscule when it has been broken into so many subsets with no information whatsoever about the makeup of any particular subset.

Jay

April 13th, 2009
10:18 pm

RW, you are correct that the poll becomes less reliable as the sample size declines for each subgroup, but “minuscule” is probably an exaggeration. Also, the poll notes that “a cross-section of calls was made into each state in the country in order to reflect the adult population nationally.”

Jay

April 13th, 2009
10:22 pm

Also, Vandy Girl does seem a bit excessive in discussing her “dislike bordering on abject hatred” for metro Atlanta.

“It’s normal to hate inferiority and dysfunction,” she says. But, you know, it’s not really normal at all.

Me wonders whether she feels dislike bordering on abject hatred for, say, the Georgia Legislature. Or the modern Republican Party. Based on the standards she espouses — “inferiority and dysfunction” — she should. But my guess is not.

Wonder why….

RW-(the original)

April 13th, 2009
10:27 pm

Jay B,

I read the Koz bit and saw what they had to say. There isn’t nearly enough info to check the poll’s reliability and with no question about what a respondent felt about the south it gives the appearance that the poll was contracted with a specific conclusion predetermined. Without much more information neither of us can know, but considering the source and the bent of the questions I think you’re hanging your hat on some pretty weak pegs.

Minuscule was probably not the word I should have used. Meaningless would have been a better one.

SuperDave

April 13th, 2009
10:33 pm

RW
The accuracy of this poll, or any poll, really depends on whether or not you have a truly random sample of your population. Also, There are a number of ways to bias the responses with the wording of the questions. If the research methodology is sound, you can have a highly accurate survey of any size population with as little as 30 responses.
I am not speaking for the validity of this particular survey because I haven’t seen the methodology, however you shouldn’t dismiss it out of hand because the sample was “only” 2400.

Taxpayer

April 13th, 2009
10:35 pm

Polls, even the less minuscule ones, only have “meaning” for those that want them to have meaning. And, if you don’t believe me just start asking folks what they think.

Corporal

April 13th, 2009
10:38 pm

Frederick Douglass:

And don’t forget Billy Clinton and Barry Obama.

And while we’re at it, may I ask what unit you served in ….. and I thank you ahead of time for your service.

Taxpayer

April 13th, 2009
10:38 pm

SuperDave,

Me thinks you might be stretching it a wee bit when you blanket us with a value of “30″ needed to get a highly accurate survey of any size population.

Taxpayer

April 13th, 2009
10:41 pm

Remember. Name, Rank and Serial Number, Frederick, and only under extreme duress. That Corporal is a sly one with his sneaky interrogation methods. Don’t trust him.

RW-(the original)

April 13th, 2009
10:41 pm

SD,

An honest reading of my comment wouldn’t lead anyone to make the claim that I said the number should be dismissed because it was “only 2400.” In fact it’s awfully hard for me to see how you claim that’s what I said at all.

Corporal

April 13th, 2009
10:46 pm

Taxpayer:

Come on! You’re messing up my “good guy/bad guy” routine!

Taxpayer

April 13th, 2009
10:49 pm

But, Corporal, how is one to know when you are playing which role. Do you change hats — a black one versus a white one. It’s so hard to know who to trust. :smile:

Corporal

April 13th, 2009
10:55 pm

Taxpayer:

That’s part of the fun ……. I learned it all from him !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrpiby-piB4&feature=related

SuperDave

April 13th, 2009
10:58 pm

RW
You said 2400 was a minuscule sample when broken into various subsets, and therefore was not valid. What exactly does that mean then? You are challenging the sample size. What else was I supposed to think.

Taxpayer
It’s been a while since I had statistics and market research, but I do recall that a sample of 30 will accurately represent a population, IF, and that is a big if, the sample is truly random. Since that never happens in the real world, you increase your sample size to make the results more representative. But you can’t break that sample down into subsets and draw conclusions from it. I was just trying to make the point that the 2400 sample may be plenty large, you just have to know the details of how the poll was done.

Personally, I don’t put much faith in most polls because there is so much garbage research out there. You tell me what you want to prove, and I can design a study that will prove it. And to the average person, it will look like good research.

It’s amazing how we tend to believe the polls that reinforce our own beliefs and find a way to discount the ones that don’t.

Bye y’all

Daedalus

April 13th, 2009
11:00 pm

What’s the quickest way to Alabama from Little 5 Points?

20 miles any direction. Once you go outside 285 its all Alabama.

Especially Alpharetta.

Corporal

April 13th, 2009
11:04 pm

Taps ………. See ya Tomorrow !

Oh yes …….. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JmqSGVRtYc

Taxpayer

April 13th, 2009
11:15 pm

RW-(the original)

April 13th, 2009
11:26 pm

SD,

I said when it was broken into that many subsets with no breakdown, not “various subsets.” Perhaps you’re over your head and for that I apologize.

Dusty

April 14th, 2009
1:39 am

Dear Jaysonitis Ignasius Bookman of West Virginia,

Mr. Charles Dickens and Little Dorritt kept me busy tonight or I would have replied sooner. But no mint julep on the veranda for you.

My father’s line goes back farther than 1750 to the coast of South Carolina. Neither they nor I would call you a Southerner. West Virginia never knew whether it was north or south and wobbled back and forth. Such confusion sent most residents underground to mine coal. Now they send their addled Senator to Washington, a Democrat no Southerner would care to claim.

Ah, the subtly of Sir Jaysonitis.

Suppose I ask dozens of people if they thought favorably of journalists in San Fran, NYC, France, Europe and Atlanta. Everyone said “Are you kidding?” I would know that journalists were an unfavorable bunch. Of course, I would not be against journalists. But I might assume that they are unfavorable DUDS. Statistics are never wrong! Right?

What? You say wrong? Then why do you use statistics and polls so much? Do you also use oijee boards, Taro cards and tea leaves to substantiate your writings? Seems like it.

That is definitely a northern West Virginia trait fully developed in Pennsylvania! A Southern poll proved this to be true.

I Report/ You Whine

April 14th, 2009
5:20 am

Remember the “slippery slope?-”

Text messaging graphic pictures of yourself could soon be legal for teens in Vermont.

Lawmakers there are considering a bill that would make it legal for teenagers 18 and under to exchange explicit photos and videos of themselves – an act that’s come to be known by teens as “sexting.”

And the freaks in Vermont didn’t mess around either, they went right for the throat of child pornography.

Sick~~~O.

I Report/ You Whine

April 14th, 2009
5:25 am

Urinal Vent-

People in Atlanta are sick and tired of politicians and bureaucrats threatening to cut essential services such as police, fire, MARTA service, etc., unless they are given more of the taxpayers’ money to waste.

Steps of the Capital?

Wednesday night?

catlady

April 14th, 2009
6:30 am

While the Atlanta area feels like it doesn’t get its fair share, the rest of Georgia feels like it is the hog in the parlour. It is hard to reconcile those two views.

I think the poll cited shows good sense, rather than bias. ‘Course, I am biased against large cities and places like France, myself.

The South, like other previously isolated enclaves, can be clannish and parochial (without being Catholic haha).

Taxpayer

April 14th, 2009
6:40 am

People of Atlanta, demand more of your politicians. Start by calling for a reduction in Cagle’s staff from 12 to 6 and let him pick up the slack. After all, what are we paying the bum $90,000 to do — campaign for the next election or take care of the state’s business! The same goes for the rest of the lazy politicians. Then again, after reviewing the “work” that they’ve done here in Georgia for the last eight years, a mass firing would be more in order. Teabag ‘em all.

DB, Gwinnettian

April 14th, 2009
7:22 am

Realize I’m late to this, but I just wanted to put in a word for the polling itself.

Some in here surely saw “Daily Kos/Research 2000″ and figured it would skew left, but I’d been seeing this pollster at work over the past year as fivethirtyeight.com amalgamated its polling results, and it seemed as reliable as any of the other major pollsters.

Also, I don’t quite get the defensiveness. The sampling included 30% from the south, i.e. 719 respondents. That should be enough to justify the reported MoE of 2%. As for how random those Southerners might be, I don’t have all the crosstab info but given the overall political/age/income demos listed, it seems on the mark to me.

kitty

April 14th, 2009
8:15 am

Wow, the South is even more backward than I thought. There is a reason the GOP fits right in down here.

Corporal

April 14th, 2009
9:02 am

Taxpayer:

Oh Yes. As a matter of fact, my wife (back in the late 70’s) talked with him for about an hour one evening at the Eastern Airlines VIP room waiting for me to arrive on a flight. Just he and his manager. He was a real gentleman.

Corporal

April 14th, 2009
9:41 am

Taxpayer:

Ah yes, a great one!

RealityKing

April 14th, 2009
11:07 am

Of course the liberals didn’t bother to ask what the people thought about the South. Afraid of the progressive hate in the pudding..

RealityKing

April 14th, 2009
11:12 am

Another great question not asked here is “Do you want nore socialism in America?”. Obviously the percentages would have been the same..

booger

April 14th, 2009
11:30 am

I think the poll is rather dumb. I have lived in every segment of the country polled, and in two countries in Europe. All have some good points and bad points, but you could only get a meaningful result from a poll like this if you asked the question as a place to live or a place to visit.

Also, having lived in both Conn., and Mass., I assure you their favorable opinions of the south would be much lower than the south’s ratings of anywhere in the country. They not only had an unfavorable opinion of the south, they intensly disliked the south. Most of this came from media stereotyping. Florida was an exception.

Your point however, which was rural vs. urban, seemed to get lost in a discussion of regional differences. Unless you are implying that the south is more rural than the rest of the country, this poll doesn,t address that issue. The midwest and the west by the way are much more rural than the south.

Having lived in both rural Ga. and in Atlanta, I agree there is a mutual dislike. I personally think that it;s related to very basic ideas. Rural living encourages individualism, and independence, while urban living relies more on cooperation and interdependence.

jon

April 14th, 2009
12:09 pm

Taxpayer: Then again, perhaps a simple presentation of some acceptable metric, say the SAT, may be sufficient to either prove or dis-prove SuperDave’s claim.

SAT scores??? All the good libs have been telling us for years that SAT scores are worthless. If the SAT scores in states outside the south are higher, it’s because of the cultural bias inherent in the test. It’s just not culturally cool to be thought of as real smart in the South. Hell if they asked the right questions, us southerners would blow away them Yankee states.

Such as:

Science: When plowing with a mule, what turn directions do “gee” and “haw” represent?

Math: Will a 30-ought-six or a thutty-thutty kill a deer better at 200 yards?

English: Write a brief essay on how to clean and cook a possum.

Etiquette: If you find a piece of corn in your serving of chittlins, should you? a) discreetly dispose of it in your pocket b) spit it at the nearest spitton c) Swallow it.

DB, Gwinnettian

April 14th, 2009
12:42 pm

Of course the liberals didn’t bother to ask what the people thought about the South. Afraid of the progressive hate in the pudding..

Liberal politicans haven’t made the South, or any geographic part of the United States for that matter, a dirty word the way some conservatives have attempted to do with their demonization of “San Francisco values” or “Taxachusetts.”

Anyway, you want to ask that question, fund your own damn poll.

booger

April 14th, 2009
2:35 pm

DB,

Sorry…We didn’t realize you had funded this poll.

Henry

April 15th, 2009
2:10 pm

Jay, you wrote: “Last week I was talking with someone who, like me, has worked at newspapers all over the country. And all over the country, we agreed, you find a certain degree of distrust between rural areas and the big, dominant city. … I’ll bet much of France feels the same way about Paris.”

I sent your quote to an American friend living in Lyon. She reponds: “absolutely true. And, here, even more so than in the states (I think), the Parisians actually are rude to the other French. They say that the French hate the Parisians and that the Parisians hate the French. I could go on for hours about this.”

[...] to see how often I cited Research 2000 polls. I found three instances in the last two years. In April 2009 and again in September 2009, I cited Research 2000 polls done for Daily Kos that broke down [...]