Gov’t, capitalism need each other

Given public anger and fear, that “socialist” Barack Obama could be a lot more radical than he has been. For example, he could be proposing marginal tax rates of 80 percent or higher on the richest Americans, like we had back in the ’50s, and with just a little stoking of public anger at the economic elite, he could probably pass it.

After all, 85 House Republicans — almost half the GOP caucus — bowed to populist sentiment last week by voting in favor of taxing AIG bonuses at 90 percent. That idea began to die only when Obama stepped in to say he didn’t think it was wise or necessary.

Obama does propose to raise the top rate from 35 percent to 39.6 percent, largely to help keep the deficit within the lower stratosphere. But that hardly makes him socialist. All he’s doing is letting the Bush tax cuts end, as they were scheduled by Bush to do. As Obama said in his news conference Tuesday, “Let’s go back to the rates that existed … during the Clinton era, when wealthy people were still wealthy and doing just fine.”

Obama could also make himself a popular man —- at least for a while —- by announcing that he was finished trying to bail out Wall Street with hundreds of billions of dollars and that the financial industry should be allowed to collapse into a smoking pile of ruin as punishment for its greed.

There’s a bull market for that kind of populism, and its appeal cuts across the political spectrum. Many on the ideological right distrust any government involvement with business, dismissing arguments that it might be necessary in a crisis. In their purist view, the free market has to be allowed to punish failure, even at the risk of that punishment falling on millions of innocents as well.

Many on the left would be happy to let it fall as well. They’re unhappy that Obama is trying to reinforce the existing economic structure; they don’t like the fact that some of those who got us into this mess are being rewarded for helping us get out of it. And they see a trillion dollars going to prop up Wall Street and they wonder how many poor and middle-class people could be helped with that kind of money.

But Obama isn’t doing that either. He’s trying to use government to save capitalism, understanding that in the modern era, both institutions need each other. Government provides the basic, essential stability that unfettered capitalism cannot. And capitalism provides the prosperity that government cannot.

Obama further understands that it’s not just public faith in capitalism that is being tested in this crisis. Public faith in government has collapsed as well. Obama is trying to resurrect the reputations of both simultaneously, understanding that you can’t save one without the other.

195 comments Add your comment

I Report/ You Whine

March 26th, 2009
7:22 am

Yeah, with friends like Oblahmi, who needs enemies?

Imagine how much worse it would be if Bushie hadn’t spent all the money already-

On the campaign trail last June, Obama declared that the Bush administration was “the most fiscally irresponsible administration in history.” At the time he made that statement, Bush’s record deficit was $413 billion in 2004. Yet according to the CBO, if Obama’s budget gets passed, the deficit will never be lower than $658 billion during his time in office should he serve two terms.

The president is displaying the same type of thinking as Bush did when he pursued policies that caused the record deficits Democrats blasted during the campaign; the same as lenders who sold adjustable rate mortgages that allowed people to buy houses they couldn’t afford; and the same as Wall Street bankers who borrowed money to load up on complex financial products backed by those risky mortgages. -AmSpec

Mrs. Godzilla

March 26th, 2009
7:25 am

Capitalism has been very. very good to me. With a little intelligent regulation it might also be very, very good for my kids. Without it…
bye-bye middle class and bye-bye USA.

I Report/ You Whine

March 26th, 2009
7:27 am

This is just some of what Bookman calls “saving” capitalism-

Nor can it be said that these Democrats are merely scapegoating the private sector to deflect blame for the politicians’ share of the mortgage debacle. Using the private sector as the party’s punching bag is also now routine. Al Gore and John Kerry ran at Big Oil, Big Pharma and Big Insurance. With mercurial suppleness, so did the current president. These “big” industries are proxies for the whole world of owners and managers, who somehow now always find themselves beyond acceptable politics as enemies of the people’s interests. A Democratic Party that was always anti-Wall Street is becoming anti- Main Street.

Meanwhile, plaintiffs lawyers assault the private sector, dig cash out of it, and transfer a percentage back to Democratic re-election campaigns. Democrats in Congress then try to legislate provisions to make the private sector vulnerable to more such lawsuits. Congress has passed the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, with the Paycheck Fairness Act on tap.-WSJ

Marxism at it’s finest.

Redneck Convert

March 26th, 2009
7:33 am

Well, it looks like pretty soon Bookman won’t have nobody left on his blog that ain’t been banned. Some people are just too good at egging people on till they blow up. Anyhow, I figure what with AJC Commie and Chad gone this blog will be lucky to have maybe 15 posts. Pretty soon we’ll be seeing bumper stickers that say Honk If You Been Banned by Bookman.

Anyway, me and my buddy Jim Earl and Joe Bill were talking about this tax stuff down at Billy Bob’s last night and we decided things are upside down right now. They charge the lowest rate for people that don’t make much money anyway. You can go broke real fast that way. No wonder the guvmint is in debt so much.

So we decided we ought to just flip the tax rates. Charge the rich people maybe 10% tax and the poor people something like 36%. That will give all the lazy bums a good reason to work harder to get a break on taxes. Pretty soon we’d have a whole bunch of people walking around and looking happy and telling everybody they went down to the 10% bracket and never had it so good in their life.

Besides, us Conservatives beleive the rich people are just better than the rest of the scum. They need to pay less taxes as a kind of reward for being so good. They are rich because God is rewarding them for being so much like Him. But no, the guvmint got to sock them with higher taxes and let the lazy bums off light. I know My President tried to do something about this kind of thing with his tax breaks but the system’s still upside down.

Matter of fact, we ought to make a reverse tax for rich people. The richer they get the more the guvmint pays them just for the priviledge of having them live here.

Anyhow, it’s pretty clear this Obama is the AntiChrist for wanting to tax rich people more. He’s going against God’s Will.

So that’s the kind of deep thinking you can get when three good old boys get together over a PBR or five or ten. I know there will be lots of people on this blog that will agree with the idea.

Have a good day everybody.

Rush Limbaugh for President

March 26th, 2009
7:43 am

Couple of things:

The current economy is different that the one Bush was working with,i.e. no stimulus or bail outs needed.

The budget hasn’t passed yet and won’t in it’s current form.

Taxpayer

March 26th, 2009
7:52 am

herbK

March 26th, 2009
7:54 am

Truly enlightening – Redneck Convert either held tongue-in-cheek, or reinforced my belief in the need for abortions. Government provides NO stability. Stability in what? Government does not operate with the same set of constraints that the private sector does. The private sector does NOT always offer prosperity. That is dependent on the current economic climate and marketplace forces. The government should, due to it’s innate inability to solve problems, stay out of the private sector save for basic, yet stern regulation. The private sector should NOT be approaching government for bailouts, and attempt to preserve both it’s labor base and it’s customer base. See? Simple.

Rush Limbaugh for President

March 26th, 2009
8:10 am

Herb K.

I think Gov’t is wasteful and inefficient. If we could fix that we might have the best of both worlds. If it were as simple as you think we wouldn’t be in the mess we are in right now.

Convert
Good riddence to AJC Communist. It didn’t take much to spin him out of control.

herbK

March 26th, 2009
8:13 am

RLFP, it is every bit as simple as I think – problem is you need willing participants. We don’t have that scenario right now.

Taxpayer

March 26th, 2009
8:16 am

Ken

March 26th, 2009
8:23 am

President HOPEEE CHANGE and his wrecking ball crew do not have a clue. I feel sorry for my Grandson.

ConservativeAnchor

March 26th, 2009
8:44 am

Yes. He is trying to boost guv’mint. Just look at that $3.6 trillion budget that will destroy even more jobs with cap-n-trade, nationalized healthcare, etc. Obozo is a nitwit.

Mrs. Godzilla

March 26th, 2009
8:44 am

Ken,

I think that my grandkids (if I ever get any, hint hint #1) will be much better off we if follow through with the transformational changes President Obama is working for. Better schools and healthcare, green energy, emphasis on science….these are things that help kids get stronger and wiser.

If you don’t see these changes as improvements, then I am sorry for your grandson too.

G

March 26th, 2009
8:45 am

Bravo, Jay, Bravo!

And Bravo also to Senator Byron Dorgan, Democrat-North Dakota. Smart man.

This video is from 1999.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veAOoQEy0PI

Jethro Bodine

March 26th, 2009
8:51 am

Okay, so business is efficient and gov’mint inefficient. We here in North Carolina had a wonderful mental health system which was basically state run until some folks had the wonderful idea of handing it over to private companies. Now, a few years later, the whole system has collapsed and folks find it just about impossible to get any services at all. The same thing when you hand over probation and parole, prisons, and a host of other services to private enterprise. They’re gonna find anyway they can to wring as much profit out of the situation as possible while short shrifting the service aspects.

Bosch

March 26th, 2009
8:54 am

Drat!!! One day, one day, I WILL get all five answers in the “Find Five” game. I was THIS close today.

Been saying for weeks that Obama is trying to get capitalism up and running again – and just like any economic of political system, you need the some of both – pure systems are unheard of and do not work.

Good article Jay.

Dan

March 26th, 2009
8:58 am

Everyone talks about “the people that got us into this mess” but they are always talking about the wrong people. The real mess makers are those who couldn’t or wouldn’t pay their mortgages and those that enabled them by forcing lenders to lower their standards. Period

Bosch

March 26th, 2009
8:59 am

Hey guys – Obama is blogging today at the White House’s website.

Ken and Conservative Anchor and the other wingnuts – why don’t you go over there to call him Obozo and Presbo (although I kind of like that one) or President Teleprompter, or any of the other pet names you have for him.

Obama is answering your questions today – why don’t you go over there and ask him these things yourself, or just plop down some of your comments.

I’m sure he’d get a kick out of it!

Taxpayer

March 26th, 2009
9:00 am

Enter your comments here

Bosch

March 26th, 2009
9:02 am

Taxpayer,

I’d rather enter my comments in the comment box. Thanks for asking though.

Taxpayer

March 26th, 2009
9:02 am

Bachman needs help to implement her plan to take over the country. She should start by enlisting Ted…Turner, that is. Together, they could rent — to own or just lease — a tour bus, head for the open road, slam it into Overdrive and spread the word from coast to coast…tent city to tent city…RV site to RV site. Bachman and Turner in Overdrive on a highway near you just Takin’ Care of Business. Hey, it beats a Britney concert any day. She either CantOr won’t just do us all a favor and give it up. After all, she’s no saint and certainly not a Madonna. Even Michael Jackson, as old as he is, can beat it on stage.

Taxpayer

March 26th, 2009
9:05 am

Bosch,

It cuts out the middle man when you enter the comments directly like that. :lol:

G

March 26th, 2009
9:06 am

Both Socialism and Capitalism need to exist side by side. And there needs to be a balance because either…separately or together can tip to the extremes of either Communism (Lenin/Mao type) or Capitalist Imperialism…the worst form of Capitalism. Both are equally dangerous.

Capitalism needs to be regulated so that the rich do not become too powerful and cause an extreme imbalance in the degree of have and have-not.

Socialism needs to be regulated so that the government doesn’t tip the balance and become Totalitarian.

After the past 8 years… we are tipped way too far on the Capitalist side ..and are becoming borderline Imperialistic. We need to balance it more with Socialism or the majority of us will be slaves to the few rich and powerful.

Kamchak

March 26th, 2009
9:16 am

Ken

I began to feel sorry for my great-nephews six years ago.

Taxpayer

March 26th, 2009
9:19 am

Tent cities need mailboxes too. They are the truly disenfranchised voters. They cannot be reached by Internet…no WiFi hotspots. Discarded cell phones do them no good either for the phone companies either disable the old phones or simply do not place cell towers such that these tented citizens can communicate. The only way I even knew that these tent people existed was via their use of morse-coded Coleman-generated smoke signals. They should burn cleaner fuel in those stoves and lanterns. Haven’t they heard about the green initiatives sweeping the country. It’s the latest rage — a blend of the best that capitalism and socialism each have to offer. They’re missing out on lithium-ion battery technology, LED lights, and so much more by remaining off the grid, so to speak. The first thing that these people need is a morse code to ASCII converter box. Maybe Wal-Mart can fill that need.

Mrs. Godzilla

March 26th, 2009
9:21 am

Dan,

A little reading from FactCheck:

So who is to blame? There’s plenty of blame to go around, and it doesn’t fasten only on one party or even mainly on what Washington did or didn’t do. As The Economist magazine noted recently, the problem is one of “layered irresponsibility … with hard-working homeowners and billionaire villains each playing a role.” Here’s a partial list of those alleged to be at fault:

The Federal Reserve, which slashed interest rates after the dot-com bubble burst, making credit cheap.

Home buyers, who took advantage of easy credit to bid up the prices of homes excessively.

Congress, which continues to support a mortgage tax deduction that gives consumers a tax incentive to buy more expensive houses.

Real estate agents, most of whom work for the sellers rather than the buyers and who earned higher commissions from selling more expensive homes.

The Clinton administration, which pushed for less stringent credit and downpayment requirements for working- and middle-class families.

Mortgage brokers, who offered less-credit-worthy home buyers subprime, adjustable rate loans with low initial payments, but exploding interest rates.

Former Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan, who in 2004, near the peak of the housing bubble, encouraged Americans to take out adjustable rate mortgages.

Wall Street firms, who paid too little attention to the quality of the risky loans that they bundled into Mortgage Backed Securities (MBS), and issued bonds using those securities as collateral.

The Bush administration, which failed to provide needed government oversight of the increasingly dicey mortgage-backed securities market.

An obscure accounting rule called mark-to-market, which can have the paradoxical result of making assets be worth less on paper than they are in reality during times of panic.

Collective delusion, or a belief on the part of all parties that home prices would keep rising forever, no matter how high or how fast they had already gone up.

Read the whole thing here:

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/who_caused_the_economic_crisis.html?rel=link

This piece is simple and succinct, I’d suggest the Time Magazine list also.

Would hate to have you miss a Period.

Obambi's TelePrompter

March 26th, 2009
9:24 am

Obambi isn’t blogging at the White House website, I am!

Get your facts straight moonbat!

And you can call me Obozo if you want.

I’m not as thin skinned as my little tard is.

Corporal

March 26th, 2009
9:25 am

Jay:

Reading between the lines of your article I truly sense you are “whistling in the dark” and even you with your wisdom and intelligence are worried (but will never admit it) that we have a serious four year problem with a dangerous “runaway” President. Moderate Democrats are starting to realize this.

The Tsunami is coming ……….

Kamchak

March 26th, 2009
9:26 am

Well put Mrs. G.

DB, Gwinnettian

March 26th, 2009
9:28 am

Shorter Jay: Behold, a President who can walk and chew Nicorette at the same time. Refreshing, huh?

Bosch

March 26th, 2009
9:29 am

Corporal,

Wow, you should look into a new career in drama.

I guess you’d know a thing or two about those political tsunamis considering the backlash the conservatives have seen in the past few years! :-)

G

March 26th, 2009
9:36 am

DNC attack ad circa 2010

No narration whatsoever….

30 seconds of images of these tent cities with stats re: foreclosures, personal income stagnation, job losses, etc. over the past 8 years.

Tag Line (white letters over a black screen):

This is what 8 years of Republican government will get you.
America can never risk putting them back in power again.

If they run an ad like this in every close House and Senate race in ‘10, the Dems will have gains comparable to or surpassing the gains they made in ‘06 and ‘08.

Corporal

March 26th, 2009
9:39 am

Bosch:

Yep, along with those moderate Democrats who are also getting real worried and are messing with “T T T’s” budget. Heresy !

Rush Limbaugh

March 26th, 2009
9:41 am

Corporal

Why don’t you form your on militia move out into the woods and miss the comming Tsunami?

On the other hand if you don’t think we just got hit by a Tsunami of greed and incompetence then you won’t feel the one that’s coming.

Davo

March 26th, 2009
9:44 am

I’m glad to see the AJC decided to change your pay rate by character count; noticeable improvement.

You think that govt/market is a symboitic system. That is the way it should be, but not the way it is. It’s actually a parasitic system in which the govt saps treasury from the people to fund unneccesary wars, intervention in Israel, sub-prime mortages…etc.

Obama’s policies are accelerating this…the federal reserve (illegal) printed $1 trillion dollars last week to ’steady the economy’ which by steadying you mean de-valueing the dollar, which means you have less money than before and your kids get to pay the debt. So, ’steady as she goes’ Obama is not really any different than ‘where the hell are we’ Bush in regards to fiscal policy…just keep spending and hope for the best because it’s not the system thats broke, right?

Obama is a socialist. Nothing he has done so far leads me to believe otherwise. He is of the opinion that govt interference in every aspect of your life is a good thing and you, citizen, should like that. Pretty soon he’ll roll out nationalized health care. Look what a fine job the govt has done with the financial and automotive sectors; they want in on the medical side now as well. The economic world around us now…you know, the coming depression, is the result of govt intervention in the market. This govt is against the individual and favors the corporation and you liberals cheer it on.

Change..ya..right

KJ, Cantonian

March 26th, 2009
9:49 am

The problem that I see is the same as it has always been – too many people trying to blame everyone but themselves for the problems, and everyone thinking that their ideas are the only ones that will work.

Unfettered greed has caused much of this mess – greed on the parts of the banks making the loans, the loan officers telling people how to get them, and greed on the part of the homeowners who wanted to buy so much more house than they could afford in order to impress the Jones’ of the world.

Socialism is a complete failure wherever it is in place, so that is not an option either – Regulated Capitalism,while possibly an oxymoron, is a necessary evil in today’s world. That being said, we must all learn to at least get along enough to solve these problems that we are facing, regardless of ideology.

An arguement that if you are think Obama leans more towards the extremes of the left than to the center it means you necessarily believe that education and healthcare reform are unwanted initiatives is as false as one that states if you are for Obama it means you want a complete collapse of America and the rise of a New World Order.

There are issues that need to be addressed, problems that need to be solved, and rifts that need to be healed – Sadly, as long as we have to choose sides – Either everyone should have a flame thrower and two grenade launchers or no one can have any weapon for any reason; either you can have late-term abortions, or morning after pills are murder; we should either provide a lifetime of government support to those who won’t help themselves or all hand outs are evil; We should let any and everyone come to this country legally or illegally, or we shouldn’t let anyone in – we will never get anything solved.

I tend to lean more conservative on most issues, but that doesn’t mean I can’t understand others perspectives – what happened to that concept? We need to not be so blind as to not see the mess that Bush made on many issues, but also not so blind as to see that he did some things right – Obama will be the same….

We need to get rid of career politicians in Washington, on both sides of the asle, and get fresh ideas from fresh Americans, and run all of the lobbyists out of Washington on a rail. Until then, it will always be as it is now – in-effective, unproductive, and generally a mess.

Mrs. Godzilla

March 26th, 2009
9:49 am

Can you imagine anybody submitting an incredibly important and
transformational budget and not anticipating having it messed with?

Kinda’ like payin’ full sticker for a car or accepting an insurance company’s first settlement offer……

Dave R

March 26th, 2009
9:51 am

Yeah, G, that will work for 2010, but if this economy is still in the tank in 2012 (a every likely scenario with Hope & Change as President and a Democrat Congress in charge), that can be turned right around in 2012.

And Jay, I actually agree with your headline, even if I don’t agree with the rest of your drivel.

Government needs capitalism to fund their excesses.

Capitalism needs government to go away and die.

Corporal

March 26th, 2009
9:51 am

To Rush Limbaugh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iVAvb5_oXY

Some talk the talk and some walk the walk ………..

Corporal

March 26th, 2009
9:56 am

But Mrs. Godzilla:

“Can you imagine anybody submitting an incredibly important and
transformational budget and not anticipating having it messed with?”

From your own party? Heresy to go against the Messiah!

oldmac

March 26th, 2009
9:59 am

Having recently spent 3+ hours waiting in line at the DMV just so I could be told to go sit for another 45 mins just so I could be later be told to sit somewhere else for another 30 mins, only to be told that we’d have to come back 3 days later because closing time is 5PM sharp, I’m amused by your headline.

mn

getalife

March 26th, 2009
10:00 am

Major line storm heading your way. It got ugly down here last night,

Bosch

March 26th, 2009
10:02 am

Dave R.,

So, are you suggesting that government just disappear all together?

Bosch

March 26th, 2009
10:03 am

oldmac,

Why were you waiting in the DMV line if you don’t mind me being nosey?

Kamchak

March 26th, 2009
10:04 am

Dave R

Without government built roads, how would capatalists get their goods to market?

Barry

March 26th, 2009
10:05 am

Abolish the payroll (a.ka. FICA) tax. Simple really.

Mrs. Godzilla

March 26th, 2009
10:06 am

Corporal….

Of course it’s expected, even from fellow Democrats. It’s part of the give and take in a big tent poltical party.

And remember, you guys call hime the Messiah, we call him Mr. President.

Dave R

I have read some whacko stuff here over the years but this may take the cake: “Capitalism needs government to go away and die.”

Rush Limbaugh

March 26th, 2009
10:07 am

Jethro

Excellent post. Naught plus naught equals double naught.

Corporal…. I am beginning to believe your thinking is out there in the ether. Lots of spiritual and metaphorical stuff and there is a place for that but you offer nothing practical or tangible.

You sound like the guy on the corner holding the sign “THE END IS NEAR.”

mm

March 26th, 2009
10:10 am

Dave R,

“Capitalism needs government to go away and die.”

I know you’ve been brainwashed by Rush and Sean, but do you know how really stupid that statement is? Do you not see the result of the government letting capitalism run wild for
the last 8 years? The greedy businesses decided profit was more important than keeping jobs in the US. Now businesses are sufferering because they have fewer customers. Someone has to keep businesses in line, and they sure as heck aren’t going to police themselves.

Yeah, do away with government. I believe that’s called anarchy.

I Report/ You Whine

March 26th, 2009
10:10 am

Ahahahahahahaha-

CHARLESTON, W.Va. (AP) – Want government assistance? Just say no to drugs.

Lawmakers in at least eight states want recipients of food stamps, unemployment benefits or welfare to submit to random drug testing.

Party’s over, deadbeats.

bwahahahaahahahaha

G

March 26th, 2009
10:12 am

Mrs. G @ 10:06,

I also find it odd that so-called Christians refer to President Obama as “Messiah”.

Dave R

March 26th, 2009
10:13 am

Mrs. G, reading your own stuff lately? That would explain your “whacko” comment earlier.

And Bosch, I’m suggesting that the FEDERAL government needs to go away completely, except for the Constitutionally-mandated functions originally conceived by the Framers. In essence, and certainly in today’s view of government, it would die.

DB, Gwinnettian

March 26th, 2009
10:15 am

Taxpayer @ 8.16, follow that Huffpo thing to Wonkette and you get this gem:

You know what other kinds of politicians “bring” teleprompters — slung under their arms, we might assume — to news conferences? All of them, because you see they all have these things called “speechwriters.” It’s a little known fact, sure, but sometimes the remarks politicians give at events are already… pre-written! And then they “read” them to the public either from a teleprompter, or from sheets of paper, or note cards, who cares, all they have to do is read them authoritatively.

It seems that Ron Fournier and many others have forgotten the basic format of every single presidential press conference ever, which is for the President to read a prepared statement for 5 minutes or so and then take questions. Would they be happier if Obama spent five hours of his workday trying to memorize his remarks?

Taxpayer

March 26th, 2009
10:15 am

Without government, the conservatives (Republicans) would have to rely on techniques developed by my ancestors to communicate — smoke signals. Smoke signals were discovered quite by accident one cold winter morning while a young and inexperienced brave, wrapped in blanket, stood too close to the fire. His fellow warrior’s attempts to extinguish him by throwing more blankets on him and pulling them off to check on his condition created a timed sequence of short puffs and long puffs. This first sequence of puffs of different lengths also laid the ground work for what would later become known as the morse code. It was the standard form of communication for years over the telegraph road…until that fateful day when Watson was summoned with the spoken word. The wonders of capitalism could finally be spread around the world, by voice.

Bosch

March 26th, 2009
10:18 am

Dave R.,

Oh yeah, the FEDERAL government needs to go away – yeah, that makes SOOOO much more sense. :roll:

I like being a citizen of the United States of America, and without the Federal government, we would have no country, each state would be its own country. Is that what you want? No, not me.

mm

March 26th, 2009
10:19 am

Cybil at 10:10,

I don’t know anyone on welfare. I take it you do.

By the way, are you calling people who have been layed off “deadbeats”?

getalife

March 26th, 2009
10:20 am

Lets face it, trolls want their party back in power to destroy the economy again.

Tim sees it coming and willl regulate to stop them.

Better Tim than our corrupt Congress.

I Report/ You Whine

March 26th, 2009
10:20 am

The liberals lending a helping hand to the capitalists-

Dear Sir: Ya’ll should have the balls and come clean and give back the bonuses. I know you would never do this so the gov’t ought to take you out back and shoot everyone of you crooked sonofb****es…I would be very careful when I went out side. This is just a warning. If I were ya’ll I would be real afraid. Thanks, Bill.

Clinton?

We will hunt you down. Every last penny. We will hunt your children and we will hunt your conscience. We will do whatever we can to get those people getting the bonuses. Give back the money or kill yourselves.

All the executives and their families should be executed with piano wire around their necks — my greatest hope.

Aahhh, yes, “hope.”

Yes we can!

Mrs. Godzilla

March 26th, 2009
10:20 am

Dave R

You could be Lance Armstrong – in Reverse!

Could you have back pedaled any faster from “Capitalism needs government to go away and die” to “I’m suggesting that the FEDERAL government needs to go away completely, except for the Constitutionally-mandated functions originally conceived by the Framers. In essence, and certainly in today’s view of government, it would die.”

Or is it multiple choice?

Taxpayer

March 26th, 2009
10:24 am

DB,

These are truly desperate times when one need focus so much on the method of delivery rather than the delivery itself. Then again, what else does a conservative (Republican) have to bring to the table.

Rush Limbaugh

March 26th, 2009
10:25 am

I report/you whine

I see we have another youngster on the blog. Does your mother know you’re surfing the web?

Such maturity. You have a real air of superiority and sarcasim in your posts. Like you really made an important point.

Are you just againist people who get food stamps, welfare and unemployment using drugs or all drug use? I wouldn’t call being on foodstamps or unemployment having a party. Unless you think of course everyone who is is also a drug user and is pretty worthless in general. Is thst what you think?

Mrs. Godzilla

March 26th, 2009
10:27 am

Taxpayer

Could we still order an 18″ Manhattan Classic with extra mushrooms via smoke signal? How about egg foo young and spring rolls?

Smoke signals would make on-line bill payment an opportunity to roast hot dogs and marshmallows!

G

March 26th, 2009
10:28 am

Trolls, off with your heads!

DB, Gwinnettian

March 26th, 2009
10:31 am

I guess this blog doesn’t like links to… mp3s, maybe?

ESR

March 26th, 2009
10:32 am

Take a stroll down to the Section 8 parts of Clayton County and you’ll all the government assistance you need to see in one lifetime. That area is what a government lifestyle is all about. A lifestyle of government is a free check on the third of the month, free gubment cheese and peanut butter and a herd of kids that all waiting to go to prison. Yep, sound like the world Obama has envisoned for all of us. Sweet.

Dave R

March 26th, 2009
10:32 am

Bosch, you need to read more carefully. Having a Federal government scaled back to it’s Constitutionally-mandated responsibilities would not mean that we would no longer be a country. It would mean that each state, and more importantly, each individual would have much more power than they do today, and I’m more than willing to live under THAT type of government than the one we have now.

And Mrs. Godzilla, you’re treading dangerously close to being as dense as G is. The government that Jay and everyone else on this blog is talking about is the FEDERAL government and it’s ROLE in regulating business. If you go back to what the Framers originally intended for the Federal government to be, they would not be in the business of regulating business.

Now start paying attention, and we can have an intelligent discussion, rather than the sniping you and your fellow libs love to do when faced with the possibility of defending your side with logic and facts.

G

March 26th, 2009
10:32 am

GOP stands for GOT 0 PLAN.

Davo

March 26th, 2009
10:40 am

“Take a stroll down to the Section 8 parts of Clayton County …”
You got that right. Only, if your gonna stroll then you better have some heat with ya.

I hope all this ‘weather-proofing’ nonsense Obama keeps throwing out isn’t made of copper, otherwise only the scrap metal dealers will turn a profit.

Rush Limbaugh

March 26th, 2009
10:41 am

ESR

Obviously you think those people in Sec. 8 housing chose to be there. Especially the children who were born there. What is your point? Does Gov’t assistance create that situation or does society create it and the Gov’t does what it can to help? Have you ever been on an Indian reservation? It will break your heart to see the poverty and hopelessness. What’s the difference?

Is it your assumption that everyone that is poor or on gov’t assistance in anyway wants that for a life and are too lazy or stupid to change it?

Mrs. Godzilla

March 26th, 2009
10:41 am

Dave R

We were paying attention. That’s what’s got your jockey pants in a wad right now.

Please expand on your theory that the Framers would not have regulated
business. We’d love to see your data on that!

I Report/ You Whine

March 26th, 2009
10:43 am

I wouldn’t call being on foodstamps or unemployment having a party. Unless you think of course everyone who is is also a drug user and is pretty worthless in general. Is thst what you think?

No, of course not, homey, I think this is a goal that all Americans should strive for, laying around all day getting wasted.

I actually admire those who choose such a lifestyle, living in a fog like they do, no worries, no responsibilities, just sit around and whine about how bad things are.

You could almost make a government pogrom out of it, even call it a “job” if you will, and when you want to get yourself a raise, just whine fresh and new about some other “indignation” upon your person.

Just remember to elect some dimwit socialist to go along with your scheme.

Success!

Yes we can!

Allah Akbar!

Bosch

March 26th, 2009
10:44 am

Mrs. G.,

The United Counties of Georgia? That doesn’t sound right, does it?

Bosch

March 26th, 2009
10:47 am

Sorry, Dave R.,

I didn’t see your 10:32 – I actually didn’t see any posts past 10:20 until a couple minutes ago.

But yeah, what exactly are you talking about – the Constitutionally – mandated responsibilities?

G

March 26th, 2009
10:48 am

Ooooh, I sense someone trying to be a bigger bully than usual this morning. Maybe someone peed in his Cheerios.

I Report/ You Whine

March 26th, 2009
10:49 am

Listen to the dimwits and their new goon strategy, probably took them months and innumerable group thinks to hatch such an idiot idea, “Our budget might suck but the Repugs don’t have one, ew.”

GTF out here.

Let’s see, duh, uh, gee, don’t spend up all the money of our future generations for your perverted boutique garbage ideas?

Cap and trade, i.e. tax increases on everybody?

Government funded “health care,” gosh, name one thing the government excels at, other than killing terrorists and other assorted trash enemies?

What?

Maybe you should expand your educational reading beyond the Huff and Puff and DNC talking point memos?

G

March 26th, 2009
10:49 am

Hell, maybe he peed in his Cheerios.

DB, Gwinnettian

March 26th, 2009
10:51 am

what else does a conservative (Republican) have to bring to the table.

A powerful troll army.

Dave R

March 26th, 2009
10:51 am

Let’s shoot this whole “GOP has no plan” thing down right now.

I’m assuming that most, if not all, of the posters on this blog have not served in an elected capacity on any governmental body in their lifetime. I have. I have served as both a member of the minority and a member of the majority, so I have experience in both sides of governing as well.

Now, when you are in the minority, as the GOP is in D.C. right now, there is only so much you can do and only so much energy you can afford to use, therefore you have a choice:

A. Spend lots of time coming up with an alternative plan that is going to go nowhere, given that Pelosi and Reid are in charge.

B. Throw as many roadblocks in the way of those plans that DO have a chance to pass both houses.

The GOP is wisely doing the latter right now.

Now, I’m sure I’ll hear all the gnashing and wailing from the libs who will say something like, “But they’re supposed to lead and provide an alternative to the Democratic plan if they ever hope to be in power again”. Maybe so, but not right now. This is NOT an election year. Alternative plans are not needed in this environment right now. Next year, maybe. Right now, the best thing the GOP can do is try to slow things down, because to try to implement anything else would be a waste of time.

The best thing the GOP can do is vote NO whenever possible, and if ever back in power, continue to vote against bigger government if they learned their lesson.

oldmac

March 26th, 2009
10:54 am

Question for Jay:

On your morning “talking points” conference call/Twitter w/ Carville, Begala and Lil’ Rahm, did Rahm mention anything about his 320 large windfall from Freddie Mac? Any “clawback” talk? How’s about we start some?

MN

I Report/ You Whine

March 26th, 2009
10:55 am

Helping capitalism, aahhh, yes-

Before its portfolio of bad loans helped trigger the current housing crisis, mortgage giant Freddie Mac was the focus of a major accounting scandal that led to a management shake-up, huge fines and scalding condemnation of passive directors by a top federal regulator.

One of those allegedly asleep-at-the-switch board members was Chicago’s Rahm Emanuel—now chief of staff to President Barack Obama—who made at least $320,000 for a 14-month stint at Freddie Mac that required little effort.-Chicago Tribune

Piano wire, huh?

Huh?

G

March 26th, 2009
10:55 am

Dave R,

>>so I have experience in both sides of governing as well.<<

And that makes you, what?

DB, Gwinnettian

March 26th, 2009
10:55 am

I seem to remember some of you had mentioned Matt’s blistering RS piece.

I heard him interviewed by WNYC’s Brian Lehrer last night (I tried to link a podcast, didn’t happen.) Frankly I’ve held off reading the piece because I’m not actively trying to get angry about this… but…

a taste:

The most galling thing about this financial crisis is that so many Wall Street types think they actually deserve not only their huge bonuses and lavish lifestyles but the awesome political power their own mistakes have left them in possession of. When challenged, they talk about how hard they work, the 90-hour weeks, the stress, the failed marriages, the hemorrhoids and gallstones they all get before they hit 40.

“But wait a minute,” you say to them. “No one ever asked you to stay up all night eight days a week trying to get filthy rich shorting what’s left of the American auto industry or selling $600 billion in toxic, irredeemable mortgages to ex-strippers on work release and Taco Bell clerks. Actually, come to think of it, why are we even giving taxpayer money to you people? Why are we not throwing your ass in jail instead?”

caz1158

March 26th, 2009
10:56 am

Jay- It’s good to see that the govmnt can decide “people still wealthy & doing just fine”!!! Who are they or anyone else to decide this?How pompus!!!

Rush Limbaugh

March 26th, 2009
10:57 am

I report/You whine

The more you post the more you expose yourself. So what do you propose be done with all those people in Sec. 8 housing?

Red

March 26th, 2009
10:58 am

Capitalism doesn’t seem to be doing such a great job of creating wealth for me. When I entered the work force, the capitalists told me that I didn’t need a traditional pension- that a 401K was what I really needed and that I’d have so much more with an employer match. Surprise! No company match this year because the company says it can’t afford it. But at least I’m able to purchase stock funds at a bargain with current contributions.

Forget that I’ve lost more than 15% of the value (saw the Bush recession coming and went mostly to cash in June of last year) of the portfolio.

No wage rises this year even though workload has increased because of staff reductions. (Although I’m looking forward to Barack’s $56 a month income boost starting in April.)

My income has been basically stagnant for the last 8 years while the CEO’s and big players on Wall St. got terrifically wealthy and bought bigger boats.

Of course I’m class baiting. Turn about is fair play when you have bloviating derivatives traders trying to blame the middle class for getting us into this mess when all along, it’s been, mostly, the capitalists greed that has run the economy off of a cliff. I get so misty eyed when the CEO of a bank or financial firm gets sensitive about being demonized so harshly. Those poor rich folks; if they had an ounce of common sense, they’d see that the reason American Socialism is such a viable and preferred alternative to stark capitalism by the general populace is directly due to their arrogance and greed.

I didn’t choose ‘Red’ as a nickname by accident.

Taxpayer

March 26th, 2009
10:58 am

A powerful troll army.

aka, the little farts.

Bosch

March 26th, 2009
10:59 am

Wait a minute Dave R.,

YOU were an elected official in the GOVERNMENT? But, I thought the GOVERNMENT WAS BAD!!!!!!!!

So, are you saying the GOP’s plan is just to obfuscate as much as possible to slow down the governing process? See that is the core of the problem right there in my opinion. The GOP members are mad they’ve been voted out by the American people, so their solution?

Just pitch a fit and obstruct government – an institution they themselves are a part of, until they get their way and can play the game by their own rules.

Pathetic. To the core.

PJ

March 26th, 2009
11:00 am

To: G @9:06 am – Bravo on that post. I think most of the Conservatives who post here would loves to see this country go back to the days of Lords and Serfs. What most of them don’t realize is that they would also be Serfs since I’m sure they are not in the top 1% of income earners. They would like to go back to the days of work houses and debtors prisons. Some even want to go back to 1776 and talk to George Washington about our economic crisis of today. In fact the whole problem with the Republican Party is they live in the past. They are afraid of technology, science, equal rights, etc. Some want to spend money we don’t have on drug testing those already hurting (Do they know what testing cost? It’s so expensive that a lot of private sector jobs cut out random testing). They love any wedge issue, like drug testing and abortion, that comes along which makes no sense because they only make us take our eyes off what the rascals are really up too. The Republican Party knows that if we the people are fighting about Gays and Lesbians, immigration or who is patriotic we won’t be watching them. They know their constituency is just stupid. They are no longer in power for these and many other reasons and will stay out of power if they don’t change their ways.

Bud Wiser

March 26th, 2009
11:00 am

G, are you auditioning for the idiot known as Chad? You have yet to EVER post a single comment on topic. Add that to the crude vulgarities similar in tone to GHT in both body part references and functions, I am a bit surprised that Jay doesn’t throw you into the closet from which you must have emerged, the very same one where the 3 Stooges are at this point.

That being said, the GAO has a much better handle on the anticipated economic numbers than Obama. He is merely trying to prop up his socialization agenda with trick accounting, not dissimilar to Bernie Madoff in style and substance.

Of course, maybe he will take a few days to think about anything before answering anything, since he essentially admitted that thinking on his feet and giving direct answers to direct questions must be above his pay grade….wait a minute, there is no pay=power grade above his. Hold his feet to the fire, and he whimpers and says he’ll think about it.

What a fine example of leadership that is.

Dan

March 26th, 2009
11:01 am

Ms Godzilla
Great list, hard to argue that any of those do not share some blame. although most folks are screaming about greedy rich people so I applaud you for your more well rounded approach. However, at the end of the day if the borrowers made better decisions, the other items would not matter at least not as much. When an adult says “they told me I could afford it so it’s not my fault I couldn’t” I have little sympathy.

Billy

March 26th, 2009
11:01 am

G’s 9:06 was right on the money. There is no such thing as an economic system in which government plays no role. Unless we have a state of total anarchy, government will be involved. It’s all just a question of in whose favor and to what degree. Right now, government is pretty firmly entrenched on the side of big business and the rich, and a pretty large segment of the population believes it should be that way. That number is shrinking, however, as the people realize the economic policies of the past 30 years are what led to the current situation.

I think the greater point of Jay’s article, the idea that capitalism needs government to save it, is true. Unfettered capitalism will lead to even greater income and wealth inequality. The stratification of society will continue unabated and people will lose any hope of upward social mobility. And when the people are worked to the bone in the hopes that they maybe, just maybe, can afford a loaf of bread for dinner for their family of four, **that’s** when those pesky communist revolutions take place. Cause you know what? People couldn’t care less about how much our GDP increases when their income is stagnant, prices for everything are increasing, and there are fewer government services to help them.

I’ll admit that I *am* scared about what our situation will be in 4 or 8 years. It’s not about how much the administration is spending, however. It’s about *how* they’re doing it. They’re not doing enough. Spend all you want, just make sure you get something for it. That company needs $50 billion? OK. But you get controlling interest in the company. If it’s a bank, force them to lend to consumers and businesses again. If it’s GM, then it’s bye-bye Hummers, hello hybrids and 4-cylinders. Executive pay is capped at $500K, no stock options worth millions in the future, and no bonuses. If we’re giving companies this money, we can temporarily nationalize them to make sure they spend it the way we want. Yes, it’s government interference, but it’s also the way to avoid an eventual violent uprising.

nowhereman

March 26th, 2009
11:02 am

“After all, 85 House Republicans — almost half the GOP caucus — bowed to populist sentiment last week by voting in favor of taxing AIG bonuses at 90 percent. That idea began to die only when Obama stepped in to say he didn’t think it was wise or necessary.”

That’s silly Jay. You are either ignorant, or stoking the outrage with populism, just like our elected officials. I really can’t tell which. If it’s the former, please be informed that passing a punative tax on a handful of people is about as unconstitutional as it gets. Almost all members of Congress are lawyers. They knew that. The 85 GOP members you mention were jerking us around, just like the rest of them. And then you claim Obama stopped it when it was a straw dog in the first place? So which are you, Jay? Ignorant, or taking us for chumps like our elected officials?

Davo

March 26th, 2009
11:06 am

Rush Limbaugh,

“Have you ever been on an Indian reservation?” please expand on this arguement; I look forward with anticipation your explaination on how well our govt has served it’s truly native sons by providing everything for them; amaze me with the success of generational welfare. Then, show me how I can expect so much more for the people of Clayton county.

Have you ever been on an Indian reservation?

G

March 26th, 2009
11:07 am

Budunwiser,

>>G, are you auditioning for the idiot known as Chad?<<

I was going to, but then you spoke and I realized very quickly that role was already taken.

Observer

March 26th, 2009
11:08 am

G – In your 9:06 post, you espouse the virtues of Socialism. Have you ever studied history? If so, please give me ONE example of a Socialist system that has lasted as long as the American system of Capitalism that has been going strong for more than 200 years. Just one is all I’m asking for.

Mrs. G – As for the intent of the Framers, please read The Federalist. Their intent is quite clear.

Dave R

March 26th, 2009
11:09 am

Simple stuff, Bosch. Please direct your attention to Section 8; the role of Congress:

Section. 8.

Clause 1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

Clause 2: To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

Clause 3: To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

Clause 4: To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

Clause 5: To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

Clause 6: To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

Clause 7: To establish Post Offices and post Roads;

Clause 8: To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

Clause 9: To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

Clause 10: To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;

Clause 11: To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

Clause 12: To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

Clause 13: To provide and maintain a Navy;

Clause 14: To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

Clause 15: To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

Clause 16: To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

Clause 17: To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, byCession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;–And

Clause 18: To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

As you can see, Congress is very limited in what they are authorized to do. Very limited. Clause 3 specifically gives them the ability to regulate Commerce BETWEEN other nations and states, but that DOES NOT give them the authority to regulate commerce wholeheartedly.

Clauses 10-18 deal specifically with defense of this nation – fully half of Congress’ role is clearly defined to provide for defense, the other half are largely monetary in nature.

But NONE of them allow for the regulation of business at the Federal level.

Thus ends your first Constitutional lesson. I’ll be back with your next lesson requested by Mrs. G on the Framers intent once I break out my hardcover copy of the Federalist Papers.

Bosch

March 26th, 2009
11:10 am

Billy,

Bravo. Best post of the day. Kudos.

Dave R.,

Billy just wrote a good post that pretty much sums up how I feel as well. Now, can we discuss these Constitutionally-mandated responsibilities of our Founding Fathers?

G

March 26th, 2009
11:11 am

Billy,

Thank you.

I’m sure you’ve noticed the inferior quality of trolls on here. And they seem so, oh I don’t know, is angry the word? I certainly would not hang around a place where others made me so furious.

G

March 26th, 2009
11:13 am

And Billy, truly an exceptional post.

SISSY SAXBY

March 26th, 2009
11:13 am

Whiner, please calm down and drink a glass of water.