The real central front in terror

David Kilcullen, an Australian, an expert in counterinsurgency doctrine, and a top advisor to Gen. David Petreaus in Iraq, was asked in a recent interview in the Washington Post to identify “the real central front in the war on terror.”

His answer was Pakistan. Why?

“Pakistan is 173 million people, 100 nuclear weapons, an army bigger than the U.S. Army, and al-Qaeda headquarters sitting right there in the two-thirds of the country that the government doesn’t control. The Pakistani military and police and intelligence service don’t follow the civilian government; they are essentially a rogue state within a state. We’re now reaching the point where within one to six months we could see the collapse of the Pakistani state, also because of the global financial crisis, which just exacerbates all these problems. . . . The collapse of Pakistan, al-Qaeda acquiring nuclear weapons, an extremist takeover — that would dwarf everything we’ve seen in the war on terror today.”

Well, if you put it like that….. (h/t abu muqawama)

49 comments Add your comment

Taxpayer

March 24th, 2009
10:54 am

Wait. Wait for it…the punch line. Let’s bomb, bomb, bomb Iran! Then again, if only more people bought those Pakistani Levis Jeans like I do, then they would be more prosperous and less prone to turn to violence in order to vent their feelings of anger and helplessness and such. Sound familiar.

PJ

March 24th, 2009
10:55 am

Looks like going to Iraq was a bigger mistake than orginally thought. This is the part of the world we should hae been in the first place. Here’s another lost opportnity from the Bush Administration left for those who follow to deal with.

ESR

March 24th, 2009
11:01 am

Make sure you pronounce like Obama Bin Lyin says it; okay…all together now, it’s PAK EE STAN.

Bosch

March 24th, 2009
11:04 am

Jay,

I don’t mean this as an insult, but this is kind of a “duh” thing. Most of us have known this for years.

T

March 24th, 2009
11:10 am

You mean we have been taking the war on terror to the wrong place? Well, d@mn.

The Corporal

March 24th, 2009
11:11 am

Jay:

You sure got off the previous thread quick ………….

Regarding this thread …….. the real front in this war (not police action) on terror is NOT Pakistan, Iraq, Iran or anywhere else. The real war is agains Islamic Fanaticism ……… wherever it happens to be living, growing, crawling, evolving, teaching, working, preaching at the time (overseas or Dekalb County).

This is a religious war not a political one and we ignore that at our peril ………..

“We had better dispense with the personification of evil, because it leads, all too easily, to the most dangerous kind of war: religious war.” Konrad Lorenz

Davo

March 24th, 2009
11:12 am

Did someone say ‘pancakes’?

Ya…duh.

PJ

March 24th, 2009
11:13 am

To: ESR @11:01 am
It kills me how some people will make fun of the proper pronunciation of a word. Did you go to school with GW Bush? You say tomato, I say tomahto, why can’t you get a life. If this is all you have to say about the seriousness of this situation it’s no wonder America is in this sorry state of world affairs.

Taxpayer

March 24th, 2009
11:14 am

Well, we were taking the “war on terror” wrong under Bush and Cheney and company. Hopefully, Obama will do a better job. First, if you are going to fight terrorists, then make sure that they are terrorists. Then, go from there.

Bosch

March 24th, 2009
11:19 am

T,

Your earlier post made me laugh. Even though I’ve never seen the Simpsons, it made me think of Homer Simpson saying “D’Oh!”

Corporal,

I’m no military genius or expert here, so maybe you can help me out – how is it exactly that we go about fighting Islamic Fundamentalism – an ideology.

Do you just kill all of them? What happens when someone decides that Christian Fundamentalism is evil and that all of you guys need to be wiped out?

Isn’t fighting because of someone’s religion just kind of stupid? And been there done that, and doesn’t work?

Just curious is all.

I Report/ You Whine

March 24th, 2009
11:20 am

We showed the world how to defeat al Qaeda and that they can be defeated.

Ooops, that was the previous administration.

The new one wants to play the appeasement card by sending out Youtube and Dancing With The Stars videos to cut throats and genocidal maniacs, maybe by the time our enemies get done laughing, Palin will be in office.

It’s like our only “hope.”

bdatlanta

March 24th, 2009
11:20 am

Corporal,
The islamic fundamentalists are almost as scary as the Christian fundamentalists here in the states.

Bosch

March 24th, 2009
11:21 am

BDAtlanta,

I was gonna write that but I didn’t feel like people screaming at me for the rest of the day:

“But they chop off people’s heads!!!!”

Midori

March 24th, 2009
11:23 am

PJ,

I must concur, as that was beyond ignorant.

Midori

March 24th, 2009
11:25 am

and now for something completely different. couldn’t have happened to a nicer guy:

GOP Begs Dick Cheney: Go Back Into Hiding

The Hill:

Congressional Republicans are telling Dick Cheney to go back to his undisclosed location and leave them alone to rebuild the Republican Party without his input.

Displeased with the former vice-president’s recent media appearances, Republican lawmakers say he’s hurting GOP efforts to reinvent itself after back-to-back electoral drubbings.

Bosch

March 24th, 2009
11:28 am

Hi ya’ Midori,

It’s a sad day at the Bosch household – I think one of my cats is in his last throws. He’s not well, but he’s an old cat who has had a good life.

Chris Salzmann

March 24th, 2009
11:30 am

ESR said, March 24th, 2009, 11:01 am
Make sure you pronounce like Obama Bin Lyin says it; okay…all together now, it’s PAK EE STAN.

Don’t be an ignorant fool ESR. Obama pronounces Pakistan as it actually should be pronounced. Ask any native Pakistani and they’ll tell you the same thing. It’s actually pronounced PAA-KHIS-TAAN. You’re proving the point that Right-Wing Conservatives are all ignorant idiots. Product of the Georgia School System??? Must be…..

Copyleft

March 24th, 2009
11:32 am

Sorry to hear that, Bosch.

PJ

March 24th, 2009
11:35 am

To: I Report/ You Whine @11:20 am – Palin in office, don’t make me laugh. First of all she will never be the President of these United States. We’ve seen first hand how knowledgeable she is in foreign affairs and the average 12th grader is more qualified in that area than she is. Secondly if she doesn’t reach out past the base of the Republican party, which I doubt she will, she doesn’t have a chance in hell of being elected and maybe not even nominated. And third she will make GW Bush look smart in comparison. She doesn’t have the chops, the knowledge, or forethought to make even a mediocre President. You guys better put your money on another horse because that one won’t make it out of the starting gate.

Taxpayer

March 24th, 2009
11:36 am

I like…eggs. Pancakes are good too. But, there’s nothing like a true southern style breakfast of eggs and bacon and grits and biscuits with gravy and lots of hot coffee.

Truth

March 24th, 2009
11:40 am

I just dont get why some of you just love to trash Christians.

The Corporal

March 24th, 2009
11:40 am

To Bosch and BDAtlanta:

Read my post. Like I said, you ignore it at your peril.

How do you fight Islamic fanaticism? It’s very simple ………

Sometimes through education (try to reverse the brainwashing of the children), sometimes diplomacy (create new states with true freedom for all including women), sometimes spiritually (ensure that freedom for ALL religion is available in Islamic countries) but always keep taking out the leadership, one by one ….

…. never let them rest, never for one second; never let them sleep; never let them pause; never let them enjoy a simple meal; hunt them down; if they group up for training (take them out); if they group up for a goat BBQ (take them out); if they group up for a political/religious meeeting (take them out); they won’t ever quit and we shouldn’t either.

Pure evil has been fought since the beginning of time. Our generation should not be the one to quit.

The Corporal

March 24th, 2009
11:41 am

Truth:

“…. if they hate Me they will hate you.”

Taxpayer

March 24th, 2009
11:42 am

I don’t get why some people think that people here are trashing Christians. Actually, I thought it was a Christian that went on Laura Ingram’s show to trash the White House occupants.

The Corporal

March 24th, 2009
11:43 am

Bosch:

I am truly sorry about your friend. I held my boxer (female) as they put her to sleep about 3 years ago. One of the hardest things I have ever done. Only pet lovers understand.

Truth

March 24th, 2009
11:50 am

The Corporal:

Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

Matthew 5:10-12

Taxpayer

March 24th, 2009
11:52 am

Let’s try to be a little fair and balanced with the remarks about who is trashing whom. For example, remember this from before the election:

Obama Is Fronting for Islamic Jihadists. Writing in The Washington Times this week, former Reagan Pentagon official Frank Gaffney, charges that Obama’s campaign has received “between $30 million and $100 million” from the Mideast, Africa and other places [where] Islamists are active.” He asserts it “seems likely” that “these funds come not only from Wahhabis, Muslim Brotherhood types and jihadists of other stripes but from non-U.S. citizens.” (His evidence? Don’t be so picky.) Gaffney adds that “Obama hopes to win the White House by relying, in part, on the Jihadist vote.” He writes: “The next three weeks afford the American people–and the media, the courts and the [Federal Elections Commission]–an opportunity to get to the bottom of Barack Obama’s ties to and affinity for jihadists who have their own reasons for relishing his promise of ‘change]’ for this country. Unfortunately, the change his Islamists supporters have in mind is for global theocratic rule under Shariah, and the end of our constitutional, democratic government.” Message: Obama will destroy Christianity in the United States and enslave you within an Islamic dictatorship.

RW-(the original)

March 24th, 2009
11:52 am

Yesterday PresBO kept pronouncing Or-EYE-on as OAR-ee-on and I’m sure some of you will try to make the claim that his pronunciation was the correct one. May I?

After finishing his remarks and talking with a few people, the president returned to the microphone and said his prepared remarks led him to pronounce the firm’s name wrong.

“I suspect this is Or-EYE-on as opposed to OAR-ee-on. Just wanted to make sure that when I’m giving you a plug, that we’ve got the right plug. It’s Or-EYE-on.”

Sounds like he also tried to throw TOTUS under the bus.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So it’s now OK to play the nuclear fear card? I keep forgetting that the “news” rules change on a whim depending on how “useful” the one dispensing it wants to be.

As I understand it the Pakistan nukes need a little more than a launch code, they need to be assembled from parts stored in separate locations. Assuming that’s correct let’s hope we have the right intel on the whereabouts of at least one of the locations.

Off to the forest, see y’all upstairs for happy hour.

Later!

I Report/ You Whine

March 24th, 2009
11:53 am

She doesn’t have the chops, the knowledge, or forethought to make even a mediocre President.

Aahhh, yes, this from an Oblahma supporter.

By the time Impeachment Boy gets done with America, whenever that may be, you libs will have zero credibility left and you PDS rants will just be the lonely ravings of remaining fever swamp lunatics.

Keep up the good work.

ESR

March 24th, 2009
11:57 am

PJ, if it kills you then you are dead, right? R.I.P.

Midori

March 24th, 2009
11:57 am

so sorry to hear that about your kitty, Bosch.

My two older ones are over 10 in human years

I hate to think of them being in that state in a few years.

*hugs*

Midori

March 24th, 2009
11:58 am

the better Obama does, the more desperate and delusional his attackers become.

Hi, Andy.

Corporal Punishment

March 24th, 2009
11:59 am

The Corporal lectures: “How do you fight Islamic fanaticism? It’s very simple ………”

Yes. It is sooo simple. Thank you for your genius. Please more pontificating lectures.

Midori

March 24th, 2009
12:05 pm

ESR

March 24th, 2009
12:05 pm

….in fiegned and faux suprise Obama Bin Lyin looks on as the soon to be displaced Senator Chris Dodd- D CT inks in the line that all contractual agreements in regards to bonues for AIG execs will be paid in full. But, he can pronounce PAK EEE STAN correctly so all is forgiven and all is well and the followers continue with blank stares and chants in unison….blame George…blame George.

ESR

March 24th, 2009
12:07 pm

F E I G H N E D …oops I did it again

Midori

March 24th, 2009
12:11 pm

ESR,

you just keep making a fool of yourself.

were you born that way?

Redneck Convert

March 24th, 2009
12:17 pm

Well, if My President was still in office we wouldn’t be having all these worrys about Pakistan. We could just say they’re all Terrists that attacked the World Trade Center and send maybe a few 100,000 troops and maybe a few thousand bombs to wipe them all out. We could let God sort out the good ones from the bad ones. Later we could hang a few of them to make everybody feel better. If they got out of hand we could have a Surge to handle them.

But no, we got this sissy in the White House that wants to talk to them and act like a spindly 10-year-old trying to talk his way out of a beating by a gang. We’re all doomed now but I still got my two machine guns and the anti-tank weapon to perteck the trailer and maybe do a little hunting. I won’t be going down easy.

Have a good p.m. everybody.

The Corporal

March 24th, 2009
12:18 pm

Truth:

Excellent.

ESR

March 24th, 2009
12:20 pm

Gee Madori did I blink and miss something good that Obama did? Ya think the DOW went up because of Big O or because we’re getting to dump some toxic debts on China to buy up? Madori, is all your gray matter in your laundry basket in the form of yesterday’s underwear or do you have any in your head?

The Corporal

March 24th, 2009
12:22 pm

To all:

Just so you know, there are two people I have placed on my “never to dialogue again with” list. They are a little slow in catching on but eventually they will figure it out.

Now, if you want to debate in a reasonably polite way have at it. If you get too personal with your attacks you go on my list. If that is what you want …. by all means do so.

The Corporal

March 24th, 2009
12:25 pm

To Bosch:

You asked me how to fight Islamic Fundamentalism. It is a difficult subject so is there anything you would like to debate in my 11:40 ?

Taxpayer

March 24th, 2009
12:41 pm

The Corporal has a list too. We DO have something in common.

The Corporal

March 24th, 2009
12:50 pm

Taxpayer:

Yes, and I fear it is just a matter of time until you are on mine and I’m on yours.

We’ll see. For me it all boils down to personal attacks. Maybe you have other criteria. Your right.

Dave R

March 24th, 2009
2:44 pm

Don’t bother with Taxpayer, Corp.

Next to Chad Harris, Taxpayer offers the least insightful posts on this blog. Never defends his rants because he refuses to answer any questions when caught out in the open naked.

Waste of time, Corp. Waste of time.

Copyleft

March 24th, 2009
2:49 pm

I like Corporal’s proposal. I suggest we try it out here at home on the Christian fundamentalists (i.e., a domestic threat to our civilization) and get all the details nailed down so we can start applying it abroad.

A fundamentalist, after all, is a fundamentalist. They’re ALL a threat to progress and civilization.

N.J,

March 24th, 2009
3:03 pm

Mosrt of those ranting about Islamic Fundamentalism tend to be totally unaware of its roots, which was in fact fanatical Christian fundamentalism. Missionaries sent to Islamic nations to convert the natives provided those who converted to Christianity with a lot of money with which those Christians then went and purchased weapons to attack, kill or convert their Islamic neighbors. One such group, Abu Sayaf, got its start in exactly this manner. In the areas of Indonesia that are close to the Philippeans, the population are almost fifty/fifty Christian and Muslim, and the Christians were provided with a good deal of money by Western Christian organizations, which was then used to purchase the weapons to attack those who would not convert to Christianity. The same is now occuring in India, in the regions that border the largely Muslim Bangladesh. The Baptist Church of Tripura is the center for a Christian Terrorist group that attacks both Muslims and Hindus using funding from the group that sponsors them, which comes from New Zealand. This Baptist Church has its own “Al Qaeda” called the National Liberation Front of Tripura.

Most of the Islamic terrorist groups came second. They copied the various church sponsored but winked at Christian organization that predated them, and which the Islamic fundamentalists copied. These groups started a good deal before the Islamic fundamentalist organization started using violence. Way back in the 1970’s there were Ambonese militias in the Eastern areas of Indonesia which were attacking unarmed Muslim villages almost continually, until some Muslims banded together and formed their own militia like organization as a means of self defense. It is no mistake that some of these organizations started kidnapping western Christian missionaries.

To put it simply, in India, Indonesia and Uganda,and other areas of East Africa(Sudan, Somalia, Egypt) non-Christian groups got the idea to create terrorist organizations by copying Christian groups who created them first. Through both governmental and non-governmental economic support, these Christian groups encouraged conversion by ANY MEANS NECESSARY.

The roots of Christian terrorism go back to the colonial period when local Christians were favored by the colonial governments, while non-Christians were non merely not favored, but subject to considerable abuse by the local Christians, while the police and judicial powers of the area turned a blind eye to this abuse.

SaveOurRepublic

March 24th, 2009
3:14 pm

As a true (paleo)conservative/quasi-Libertarian, I truly believe the “War on Terror” is largely a fallacy leveraged as a pretext for Big Government empowerment & an (growing) Orwellian police state. It’s beyond the scope of Constitutional adherence for the U.S to play “policeman to the world”. Noninterventionism was wisely embraced by the Founding Fathers (Washington & Jefferson) for good reason. As I’ve often stated, we are looong overdue to end these incessant foreign entanglements. The U.S. taxpayer shouldn’t be direct funding foreign nations (via “foreign” aid, “police” aid, etc.) and the troops in the Middle East need to be extracted asap. What the shysters on “Crapitol sHill” need is more strict Constitutional adherence and less subservience to the Globalist agenda!

The Corporal

March 24th, 2009
4:38 pm

To Copyleft:

Please at least wait until we start cutting heads off.