House passes stupid bill to tax back bonuses
I’ve been railing about excessive CEO and Wall Street compensation for years. Excessive pay was wrong even before the economy collapsed, and in fact it contributed to the bubble formation by rewarding people for big risks taken with other people’s money. And it is even more wrong now.
But this is really a stupid and unfair bill, driven by political pandering and fear. I hope Washington takes a breath, calms down and reconsiders. Because it is really a stupid bill.
“Congress moved yesterday to levy punitive taxes on bonuses paid by financial firms receiving government aid, threatening to undermine federal efforts to rescue the financial system by driving away participants in the programs.
A quickly assembled House bill was approved 328 to 93. It struck hard at Wall Street’s compensation system, which has come under fire because of the $165 million in bonuses distributed last week by American International Group to executives of the troubled unit that helped lead the insurance giant to the brink of collapse. Under the legislation, those who received bonuses of more than $125,000 would surrender 90 percent of their payments to a special income tax.
But the bill’s reach would extend to bonuses paid to tens of thousands of employees at the nation’s nine largest institutions that have received at least $5 billion in assistance under the $700 billion financial rescue package Congress approved last year. The measure also applies to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the mortgage giants the federal government took over in September.
Because virtually all Wall Street employees receive bonuses — in many cases making up the majority of their compensation — firms would rather back out of the government’s rescue programs than be subject to such harsh tax measures, industry officials said. The banks could still survive, but without federal assistance they would not have enough capital to restart lending, which is considered central to reviving the economy.
Senate leaders aim to act next week on an even tougher bill that would affect all large banks that have received more than $100 million in asset relief payments. Collecting the tax is not necessarily the intent of the measure, lawmakers and aides said yesterday. Some AIG employees have returned their bonuses, and some Democratic leaders said they may forgo the tax effort and turn to other measures already in the works to limit executive compensation at recipient firms.”
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158 comments Add your comment
Eric
March 20th, 2009
7:12 am
Jay, I agree with you 100%.
Sam
March 20th, 2009
7:15 am
Somewhere deep under the surface of the Earth, Hell has frozen over…..I agree with Jay
Mrs. Godzilla
March 20th, 2009
7:16 am
Jay
I don’t agree 100%
Yes, the bill is probably unconstitutional, but it certainly is not the first bill that passed that didn’t make the cut.
The majority of America’s elected officials stood up yesterday and said, “we’re mad as hell and we’re not going to take it anymore”.
Will anything major come of it legislatively? Nope.
Did it make most of America feel good? Yep.
I say, Good for them!
jt
March 20th, 2009
7:16 am
The money was already stolen from us. Congress should not take the bonus money back. Tassle-loafed wall street crooks can do far less damage to America than our current congressmen. It’s not as if your typical taxpayer will see the money returned.
Mrs. Godzilla
March 20th, 2009
7:16 am
It certainly makes for interesting political theater.
Eddy
March 20th, 2009
7:17 am
Stupid people often pass really stupid legislation. All of this could have been avoided if the initial bill had stipulations in it that prevented the bonuses from being paid . Of course someone would actually have to read the bill first!!! Geithner and Dodd are the two seem to be responsible but are doing their “Who’s on First” routine.
Barry
March 20th, 2009
7:27 am
Abolish the payroll (a.k.a. FICA) tax. Let’s let Hendrik Hertzberg of that notoriously right-wing magazine, The New Yorker, explain it: “The payroll tax…skims around fifteen percent from the payroll of every business and the paycheck of every worker, from minimum wage burger flippers on up, with no deductions. No exemptions either – except that everything above a hundred grand or so a year is untouched, which means that as salaries climb into the stratosphere the tax, as a percentage, shrinks to a speck far below. This is one reason Warren Buffet’s secretary (as her boss has unproudly noted) pays Uncle Sam a higher share of her income than he does. In fact, three-quarters of American households pay more in payroll tax than in income tax”. Read all about it in the March 23 issue – the one with the hilarious depiction of the Rushmeister on the cover. Annoyance alert – I will post this suggestion every day until we get some traction.
Mrs. Godzilla
March 20th, 2009
7:29 am
Wanna talk stupid?
How about those KY election officials arrested and charged With ‘Changing Votes at E-Voting Machines’.
Not an Acorn to be seen!
The Voice
March 20th, 2009
7:33 am
The salary tax is on income just over $250,0000. Just how much does Obamalama zip e doo da make??????
AJC/DNC Management
March 20th, 2009
7:33 am
It is an improvement over wrapping piano wire around the necks of the AIG executive’s children, no doubt about that.
But yes, it is still ridiculous.
(IR/YW is censored again this morning?)
I Report/ You Whine
March 20th, 2009
7:37 am
So what is wrong with my post this morning?
Brad Steel
March 20th, 2009
7:38 am
Jay,
Just because it is driven by fear and pandering (what government isn’t to some degree), doesn’t make it stupid. Back up your assertion or else you’re no better than the sanctimonious bombast hurlers on AM and Fox.
I Report/ You Whine
March 20th, 2009
7:39 am
I know, the blog nanny saw that I was agreeing with Jay and must have thought it was a name jacking.
Off to the spam basket I went.
Sam
March 20th, 2009
7:40 am
Yeah, I sure am glad this bill makes Mrs. Godzilla “feel good”. What is it about liberals and “feelings”. Like psychiatrists: “how does it make you FEEL….?” This is what happens when feelings rule over their brains and common sense. Please Congress, stop wasting taxpayers time and money and figure out why y’all didn’t read the bill before the firestorm.
Like I said, all who voted for the bill and Obama who signed it should have their wages garnished to pay for the lawyer fees that will rack up b/c of this. Now that would be…..Accountability?
Mrs. Godzilla
March 20th, 2009
7:41 am
I’ll add one more piece to the discussion….
While the American International Group comes under fire from Congress over executive bonuses, it is quietly fighting the federal government for the return of $306 million in tax payments, some related to deals that were conducted through offshore tax havens.
read the rest here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/20/business/20aig.html?_r=1&hp
ConservativeAnchor
March 20th, 2009
7:43 am
OH MY. Twice in one week when Jay and I agree.
DB, Gwinnettian
March 20th, 2009
7:45 am
Jay, FWIW Nate Silver apparently agrees with you–he’s been railing against the tax for days now.
Me? eh. I think it’s likely wrongheaded, in principle, to attack what seems like an outrage-of-the-day with legislation that’ll likely wind up targeting unworthy people. But if half the Republican congresscritters thought it was S-M-R-T, who am I to judge?
DB, Gwinnettian
March 20th, 2009
7:46 am
Sam asked “What is it about liberals and “feelings”.”
I imagine it’s like conservatives and their feelings about abortion, gun control, and the death penalty, none of which are based on sound public policy but, rather, their feelings.
ByteMe
March 20th, 2009
7:48 am
Sam: I’ll take “feelings” over “faith in my religion’s fears” any day. At least feelings are internalized. So there.
As for the topic, yeah, it’s stupid, and yeah, it’s unlikely to withstand constitutional challenges, but sometimes the politicians have to do something to convey “the will of the people” even if it gets slapped down later.
The real question: If it gets that far, will Obama sign it, knowing that it’s likely unconstitutional and will just end up wasting money in defending legal challenges? Personally, if I’m Rahm, I’m doing what I can to make sure the Senate has a different bill and that the negotiations between the House and Senate to resolve the differences NEVER end. Let them vote on it, but never send a unified bill to the Pres. Everyone pretty much gets what they want that way.
DB, Gwinnettian
March 20th, 2009
7:49 am
“Back up your assertion or else you’re no better than the sanctimonious bombast hurlers on AM and Fox.”
That’s a little harsh–Jay doesn’t owe you a column-length piece three times a day, as a lot of the righties seem to believe–however, I am somewhat sympathetic with your sentiment here, in that
a) I doubt very much that Jay’s read the bill or even really understands the mechanisms by which it would actually implement this tax–I haven’t/don’t claim to, myself; and
b) maybe it’s just me, but Jay seems to be very eager to doll out the Troll Chow the last coupla days. I’m bracing myself for his “and conservos, I’m on your side with EFCA, too! that’d be BAD!” column which is likely to come in a few days.
(sure hope Jay proves me wrong on “b”)
DB, Gwinnettian
March 20th, 2009
7:51 am
if I’m Rahm, I’m doing what I can to make sure the Senate has a different bill and that the negotiations between the House and Senate to resolve the differences NEVER end. Let them vote on it, but never send a unified bill to the Pres. Everyone pretty much gets what they want that way.
Probably right about that.
Earl
March 20th, 2009
7:54 am
How dumb can a person be to think that Obama didn’t know that little line was in his stimulas package/bailout that if the executives had a contratual agreement for a multi-million dollar bonus, they’d receive it. Obama explained the need for the teleprompter 24/7 last night on The Tonight Show. What an idiot!
Mrs. Godzilla
March 20th, 2009
7:54 am
Sam
Good Morning! Yes, I have feelings and I use them along with reason and hard work every day. Don’t you?
Dedicated to you, Sam, with feeling:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jt8Q7Fsa_Vs
Ken
March 20th, 2009
8:00 am
You are strating to see the light Jay. More stupid tricks to come.
Yankee
March 20th, 2009
8:01 am
Maybe they should pass a bill that you have to read a bill before passing a bill. Call it the what would Bill do bill.
DB, Gwinnettian
March 20th, 2009
8:04 am
Call it the what would Bill do bill.
“what would Ah do? Ah’d feel yer pain. And maybe have some fries with that!”
.
(sorry, President Clinton.)
Taxpayer
March 20th, 2009
8:09 am
I see this as a needed step toward future legislation that properly deals with issues of economic fairness in our society. Bear in mind a key underlying topic that this bill brings to the forefront — taxation. This is about so much more than these bonuses. What was it, fourteen companies that have received bailout money owe back taxes. On a similar issue, companies right here in Georgia owe over $400 million in back taxes — the crooks. Then, there’s the issue of taxing certain types of “income” at the capital gains rate versus ordinary income rate — we’re not talking about 90%, we’re talking about 15% versus 28%. You know, the same rates that the rest of we the people have to pay. The 90% is a nice jab at where we used to be back before Reagan — it helps to maintain one’s perspective after all. And, there’s still those 52,000 tax evaders that UBS, another recipient of billions of our tax dollars via AIG, is shielding from the IRS. Indeed, this issue has only just begun to get interesting. So, let’s get down to business and talk about fairness.
Joe Matarotz
March 20th, 2009
8:09 am
If it’s written in the Post or the NYT, that’s good enough for Jay. He will repeat it. Someday, newsboy, you might actually learn to think for yourself.
That being said, it’s still a bad bill. There is, however, a bright side. It is sending a message, LOUD AND CLEAR, that bad behavior has negative consequences. It’s a lesson children learn early on in life. We all know by now that this entire financial disaster was the result of rewarding bad behavior. No amount of risk was too high because the reward was mindboggling. Even the Bob Nardellis of the world were aloud to come in, ruin a company, and be paid millions to leave. If any of us here (except Jay) did our worked like that, we’d be fired and living in a cardboard box.
When all the dust settles, the next administration can clean up these loose ends. For better or worse, this administration has the job of stopping the train and getting it going in the right direction.
G
March 20th, 2009
8:11 am
That’s a whole lot of Rushpublicants voting to raise taxes into the 90% bracket.
Kind of puts the lie to the phrase “tax and spend liberal,” doesn’t it?
Nice work cornering these hypocrites, Nancy.
Red Foreman
March 20th, 2009
8:11 am
I think the tax is just for bonuses above 250k for companies that recieve TARP funds…
PoliticalMan
March 20th, 2009
8:18 am
Mrs Godzilla, nice posts.
The bill is not stupid. It sends a message. But jeez, it is such a tiny, tiny drop in the bucket. The criminal behavior of Wall St, etc has been going on for yrs. Selling thin air should be a crime. Furthermore, they have taken us all down with them. I fully believe that the heads of institutions that sold financial products that they knew were bogus should be put in jail and all of their property confiscated.
If someone sold a lame horse in the West, maybe they were allowed to live. Have we lost our nerve?
Shawny
March 20th, 2009
8:20 am
You are correct, Bookman, it is a stupid bill. Kudos to the 6 democrats that opposed it. Doesn’t say much about the rest, though.
Californication
March 20th, 2009
8:20 am
If these idiots they WE elect feel the need to vote on some thing that they have NOT read then they should suffer the consequences. Why is it not mandatory that they read something that they vote on, not their aids or concubines, them. Why do we pay them hundreds of thousands of dollars and they can’t read a bill. Time to vote out ALL incumbents, vote libertarian! Lets make these idiots responsible for what they do!
Curious Observer
March 20th, 2009
8:23 am
This bonus tax bill is mere political posturing. Even a first-year law student can tell you that a retroactive law is unconstitutional. Meantime, the public gets hoodwinked into thinking that the tax bill is actually accomplishing something.
Dodd needs to go. After trying to lie his way out of the problem, he finally comes clean when he’s without any other recourse. It looks as though his constituency has already caught on. He’s down to dead-even with his Republican opponent in 2010, whereas he previously enjoyed a commanding lead in all the polls.
If Congress really wants to address the problem in the future, it will amend TARP to outlaw any bonuses in companies receiving those funds. The AIG executives will still be entitled to receive their bonuses this year, but they won’t next year.
AmVet
March 20th, 2009
8:27 am
Yankee, I love that idea!
What’s all this righteous neo-con fuss over legalities, schmegalities?
For eight solid years, complete contempt for the US Constitution enabled King George II and the puppet master, DickHead, to jolly well do whatever the hell they wanted. With nary a peep from the crowd that STILL thinks they were the best thing since sliced bread.
Just use a frickin’ signing statement, Uppity One…
G
March 20th, 2009
8:29 am
I really enjoyed President Obama on the Jay Leno show last night. Before anyone gets started on me about this, I do wish he hadn’t made the Special Olympics comment, but, hey, we are all guilty of foot in mouth syndrome, from time to time. As long as he doesn’t make a daily habit of it as Bush did, I’m cool.
He is such an intelligent, caring and charismatic person. I had grown accustomed to someone with all of that during President Clinton’s tenure,(and yes, I know he had the morals of an alley cat, but he was a great President) then we had the disastrous, dumb@ss Bush for 8 years, which seemed so much longer. Now we have the good things back again. I truly missed that during the Bush regime. I feel that’s why I am so enthralled with President Obama, he’s such a change from idiot Bush.
I Report/ You Whine
March 20th, 2009
8:35 am
In the past few days, Republicans have been heartened by some astonishing public opinion numbers. Pollster Scott Rasmussen found that more people, by a margin of 41 percent to 39 percent, would support a Republican than a Democrat in the next congressional race. A poll taken for National Public Radio showed similar results. Given that Democrats have trounced Republicans on that question for a long time, the new results are raising eyebrows on Capitol Hill.
You libs are doing a great job, even better than I expected, we need more ridiculous legislation like this^^, and I have no doubt that you won’t let us down.
I wonder how the David Brooks/ Frum, Kathleen “Oogedy Boogedy” Parker, Peggy Noonan and all the other aisle reachers are feeling about their idiotic, girlish emotional attachment to the Wonder Dunce about now?
Like I said before, you libs can keep these dimwits, they’re all yours.
I Report/ You Whine
March 20th, 2009
8:36 am
In the past few days, Republicans have been heartened by some astonishing public opinion numbers. Pollster Scott Rasmussen found that more people, by a margin of 41 percent to 39 percent, would support a Republican than a Democrat in the next congressional race. A poll taken for National Public Radio showed similar results. Given that Democrats have trounced Republicans on that question for a long time, the new results are raising eyebrows on Capitol Hill.-Washington Examiner
Keep up the good work, democrats!
The Voice
March 20th, 2009
8:36 am
Why don’t you folks just square off and beat the hell out of each other since you seem to hate each other so much…geeeeez
Brad Steel
March 20th, 2009
8:37 am
DB,
right-e-o. and well articulated.
Joey
March 20th, 2009
8:41 am
I almost agree with Mrs. Godzilla.
This is equivalent to petting and cooing to your dog right after you kicked it for lying on you bed.
Taxpayer
March 20th, 2009
8:41 am
Whack! BAM*!# Pow. BoOM! Stay tuned for the next smack down at the same bat time on the same bat blog. NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA…
Civilian/Private/Corporal
March 20th, 2009
8:43 am
Jay:
1) I agree with you. Not only is it unconstitutional (and what that says about the House passing it knowing that) but it is political demagoguery at its very worse.
2) What about excessive pay for sports figures when the taxpayer is subsidizing those sports stadiums ?
3) Two more headlines from this morning on the bowling ball thing:
“Obama makes late-night gaffe”
“Obama makes ‘iffy’ statement”
You and I both know if it had been Bush the headline would be:
“Bush insults Special Olympics. Apology demanded”
The amazing hypocrisy of the “double standard” ………………..
Paul
March 20th, 2009
8:43 am
G
I recorded Pres Obama on Leno, watched it this morning. I thought it a very, very good appearance. Informative, relaxed – as I said yesterday, he got to take his case directly to the people without the commentator filters.
After I replayed it, I flipped to a news station with Geraldo and what were they discussing? The Special Olympics” comment. I thought “huh?” and they played the clip, with subtitles so you could understand what was pretty much obscured by audience laughter. I nearly changed channels at that point, but Geraldo made the point that it was one of those “unfortunate” comments that he was particularly sensitive to, given all his work with Special Olympics. He then said it was an overall fine performance.
So another case of ‘gotcha’ obscuring the important – and it is not just conservative media that does this.
Obama gave one of the most succinct explanations possible of the AIG crisis and he did it all without a teleprompter. Before the Bushbashers begin, he noted the attitude that made this possible has ‘been around for 15 or 20 years.” I think it more of a cultural phenomenon, regardless of the party affiliation of the person occupying the White House.
Anyway, given I don’t want to screw up the first hypertext link I’ve ever tried, just Google ‘transcript Obama on Leno’ and the first hit will be a NY Times link to the entire transcript. Just as people would like Congressmen to actually read the bill before voting, I think it entirely reasonable to ask bloggers to actually read the transcript before commenting.
Joey
March 20th, 2009
8:45 am
No. Its more like hugging and kissing your spouse the day after you knock out two teeth and blacken an eye.
@@
March 20th, 2009
8:45 am
So how does it make you feel, jay, knowing that you’re, at the very least, as smart as conservatives and, at the most, smarter than your liberal participants here.
Something I think that is being ignored is that this makes the pols, yet again, look incompetent which is what’s keeping the market in chaotic confusion.
Paul
March 20th, 2009
8:47 am
Oh, sorry… thread comment.
Agree today, agreed with the retroactive part when it was first discussed. As far as future impact – the effect on Wall Street where bonuses can form the majority of a compensation package, well, fiddlesticks, they can just restructure their compensation packages to more reflect what happens elsewhere (standard salary, marginal or no bonus predicated upon defined metrics) like most of the workforce gets. Heck, most people nowadays think just keeping your job is a pretty good ‘bonus.’
Civilian/Private/Corporal
March 20th, 2009
8:49 am
“House passes stupid bill to tax back bonuses”
Jay – Shouldn’t your title have been ….
“Stupid House passes bill to tax back bonuses”?
The bill is an inanimate object.
DB, Gwinnettian
March 20th, 2009
8:49 am
G & Paul, here’s a link to the actual transcript, because I wanted to see what the fuss was about.
And here’s the actual exchange:
Q Now, are they going to put a basketball — I imagine the bowling alley has been just burned and closed down.
THE PRESIDENT: No, no. I have been practicing all — (laughter.)
Q Really? Really?
THE PRESIDENT: I bowled a 129. (Laughter and applause.)
Q No, that’s very good. Yes. That’s very good, Mr. President.
THE PRESIDENT: It’s like — it was like Special Olympics, or something. (Laughter.)
Q No, that’s very good.
THE PRESIDENT: No, listen, I’m making progress on the bowling, yes.
I read that as a “Jay, your praise of my bowling prowess is in the same spirit of those given Special Olympians. Just being there and competing is a kind of victory.” Which isn’t especially mean-spirited, but pretty tone-deaf.
Were you or I to say something similar on the air, it’d probably not be noticed, but this is the President, and his gaffes are newsworthy. See also–”workin’ hard to put food on your family.”
DB, Gwinnettian
March 20th, 2009
8:50 am
arggh, that’s the second time in two days I forgot to close the dang barn-door- href tag thingie. Sorry.
Later, all.
Mrs. Godzilla
March 20th, 2009
8:55 am
James
Good Morning
I’m with you on your second point…..
Hmmmmmm
March 20th, 2009
8:55 am
Somebody pinch me, I finally agree with Bookman! It’s gives me a very weird feeling. Mrs. G, Real Americans are bending their knees in prayer. This country is going down the drain, the psychopath’s are in control of the asylum.. President Obama feels right at home as head of the crazy’s…
Swami Dave
March 20th, 2009
8:56 am
Agree with the thoughts Jay. Kudos to the Democratic members who voted against it and shame to those Republicans who voted for it. It won’t pass Constitutional muster and will serve as just another impetus for either a) institutions to forgo participation and / or b) further drive companies to move things offshore. It is asnine “actions” like these made by politicians that have created such a debacle of America’s tax code already.
Also, according to DB, you will be publishing an article taking the right side on EFCA (you know, the Employee Forced Choices Act).
I will anxiously await one of your articles supporting the free right of employees to elect or refuse collective bargaining under secret ballot without intimidation from the parties with a financial stake in the outcome. It will be great to hear that you are opposed to reintroducing past practies of union thuggery into American workplaces and are instead supporting truly free choices and secret elections in issues governing employer / employee relations.
-Swami Dave
Paul
March 20th, 2009
8:56 am
DB, Gwinnettian
The fact one sentence in a comedy exchange gets so much attention is notable.
Could I ask you to please post his explanation of how the AIG mess occurred and why it was worthy of Federal intervention? Or his explanation of how this culture of entitlement occurred? Or why he’s so focused on energy and health care and education? I was pleased to hear him note that although he saw demonstrations of battery technology for vehicles, battery manufacturing and wind turbine manufacturing occur largely outside the US (something noted on this blog) and his efforts are designed, in part, to return manufacturing to the US as a good source of jobs.
Taxpayer
March 20th, 2009
9:00 am
That Suze Orman is a very smart woman. She has GW pegged.
Bosch
March 20th, 2009
9:00 am
Jay,
Right on. This is all political grandstanding. ByteMe, good post and you too Paul – right on to you guys as well.
And hey, if we are going to start making retro-active law – can we make it a law to put incompetent CICs in prison for life who unlawfully invade other countries for oil?
Civilian/Private/Corporal
March 20th, 2009
9:01 am
Mrs. Godzilla:
Appreciate that. Thank you.
Joe
March 20th, 2009
9:02 am
How about we tax Dodd’s 200k he got from AIG at 90%?
I’m sick of Washington DC and the idiots that populate our government.
N.J,
March 20th, 2009
9:05 am
Anyone who has worked in the financial sector, especially in the New York City area knows that retention bonuses are not just given to people who could walk and find other jobs that pay as well, but to people who would also have to take seriously large cuts to their income if they lost that job.
Retention bonuses were simply a method of rebranding. These bonuses do not only go to financial experts, but to almost everyone working in these industries. Basically there are clerical level people earning as much as 125,000 dollars a year who are given quarter million dollar “retention bonuses” when these people have no intention of leaving those jobs. They can be replaced with 40,000 to 50,000 dollar a year fresh college grads with no problem. Many are stuck in jobs they really do not like much, but really have no alternative, because their years of experience do not count much to other businesses advertising similar jobs.
I think the Congress did the right thing with this targeted taxation. The Republicans have been preventing the Democrats from creating legislation that would simply make any executive compensation that exceeds 25 times the income of any firms lowest paid employee non deductable as a business expense on the firms taxation, something which existed before Reagan was elected. The rise of excessive corporate remuneration can be traced back to the day that Reagan pushed for the changes in the tax code that allowed corporations to pay any amount of remuneration to executives, and have the justification of “tax deductability”. The flattening of middle and working class income over the last 28 years can also be traced to this change, as CEO’s and executives were then able to choose between giving themselves large raises and deducting them from corporate taxation, or giving benefits and raises to lower level employees, and get the exact same tax deduction for it.
Prior to 1980, the average executive earned about 17 times what the lowest paid employee earned. Within a few years of the Reagan changes, this skyrocketed to more than 400 times what the lowerst paid employees of most companies earned. This is where and when the “real wages” of average Americans started stagnating. CEO’s were given the choice of increasing employee wages and benefits OR increasing their OWN wages and perquisites. Guess which choice they made?
The only way to assure that America gets back on track and starts rewarding all Americans who work is to return to this sane tax structure. By doing so, nothing will prevent a company from rewarding an executive who performs well, they simply will not be able to deduct more than a certain amount of money for doing so, but if the executive is truly performing well and making a company a significant amount of money, the amount that the company will lose by not being able to deduct that expense will be insigificant, and average Americans will see better raises and better benefits for their role in increasing the productivity of a business.
Paul
March 20th, 2009
9:05 am
Bosch
Invading Iraq for oil was a really, really dumb move. See, it’s just oil. You have to ship it and refine it and that drives the price up. Now, if the neocons were really thinking about profits, they would’ve invaded Venezuela. They have not only oil supplies, but heck, they’ve got refineries right there! All we would’ve had to do is ship the finished product and then Pelosi and company wouldn’t have had anything to squawk about regarding new refineries and environmental law and pollution. We could’ve continued outsourcing all that nasty stuff to other countries! Or we could’ve taken over the country and built a pipeline direct to Texas or Louisiana. And we could’ve used illegals, ‘cept they wouldn’t be illegal ’cause they would be working in other countries or international waters!
Do you know what day it is?
mike
March 20th, 2009
9:10 am
another example of “knee jerk” politicians catering to the whaling masses. And we think these clowns can get us out of the situation we are in financially. Maybe if we do some more late night talk shows or pick our final four on tv everyone will be distracted and won’t pay attention to our idiocy. God help us.
Bosch
March 20th, 2009
9:11 am
Paul@9:05,
Shut up.
I was talking political grandstanding and retarded retro-active laws.
But, it would be nice if we could get Bush for that blunder.
Of course I know what today is! I feel kind of like I think I’ll feel the day my daughter gets married – bittersweet. Happy it’s here, but sad it’s leaving. Sniff. sniff.
Taxpayer
March 20th, 2009
9:13 am
N.J.,
This is indeed a very taxing issue and I do hope that this administration keeps the heat on correcting the unfair tax policies of the Republican administrations. Threatening a return to 90% tax rates is hopefully a good eye opener for many people as well as a motivator for them to set down and negotiate.
Civilian/Private/Corporal
March 20th, 2009
9:15 am
HEADLINES:
“In an unprecedented video appeal, Obama offers Iran a ‘new beginning’ of diplomatic engagement based on ‘respect’…”
“Iran’s Leadership Ignores Obama Outreach, Says World Powers Cannot Block Nuclear Program …”
OH WELL, at least they appreciate the weakness.
Taxpayer
March 20th, 2009
9:15 am
Bosch,
Is there a cult BSG movement yet.
Paul
March 20th, 2009
9:16 am
Bosch
Shut up? But I’m not speaking, I’m typing…..
Why I am glad the Pres is pushing ahead with support for alternate technologies is that’s it’s laying the groundwork for the day when we will no longer need any Mideast oil. None. And since they have nothing else we need that’s critical to our economy, our presence in the region will dwindle to zero.
Can dwindle to zero. I keep forgetting, our military hardly ever leaves anyplace.
Good analogy on BSG. But we’ve that new series coming up, so it’s kinda like your first grandkid, right?
12 hours 43 minutes
WB FRANK
March 20th, 2009
9:18 am
I wonder if I heard this right yesterday: Sen C.Dodd DEM said that he was responsible to taking the Wall Street compensation limits out of the bill… with Obama’s order. Is it possible that this is all part of : CLOWARD-PIVEN STRATEGY which: * Strategy for forcing political change through orchestrated crisis ala: Columbian University 1966? For one I do not believe in every worst case senario paranoid, Shadow Government, conspiracy theory, One World Government nonsense… but, I know this seems a bit simplistic however, we put away a Ponsi schemer in jail for the rest of his life (we treat murderers better) for stealing 50+ BILLION dollars out of investors pockets; a couple allegedly even committed suicide. Then here comes the Obama administration with all of the old Clinton cronies and rushes through their scheme to rob TRILLIONS of dollars from you and me over generations… they cry “the sky is falling” to get these crappy (yes, even George W signed a very bad piece of legislation too) bills… is this Obama’s Ponsi-type scheme?? George Orwell was a prophet you might want to re-read the book and go to : http://www.newspeakdictionary.com/ and learn the new language that will be forced upon us probably (in some form or another).
Paul
March 20th, 2009
9:20 am
Taxpayer
“cult” implies, fringe, small, kinda weird. So no, there isn’t. There’s a widespread fan base comprised of creative, intelligent people with interests in philosophy, religion, politics, ethics and moral questions who regularly question and challenge all they see.
But they let me and Bosch in anyways.
AmVet
March 20th, 2009
9:20 am
Hey! I have an idea!
Let’s let the “free market” fix this clusterf&ck!
It’s not like they caused it or wanted the regulators/fiscal cops to look the other way in the first place!
After all, they’ve done a helluva job “policing themselves” Brownie!
OK. Off to pay for more corporate welfare.
Pray for rain…
Audrey in Georgia
March 20th, 2009
9:22 am
This is a great bill for companies being bailed out by the government or pay it forward!!!!!
Private Parts/Corporal Punishment
March 20th, 2009
9:25 am
We should start bombing Iran immediately!
They should be forced to cower to our mighty power and dominant position in the world. If they do not submit, fortunately, we still have the right to torture thanks to the greatest president in the history of this god-anointed republic, Dickton J. Cheney.
Civilian/Private/Corporal
March 20th, 2009
9:26 am
HEADLINE: President Neville Chamberlain reaches out to Iran.
Paul
March 20th, 2009
9:29 am
AmVet
[[Let’s let the “free market” fix this clusterf&ck!]]
Go to your room….
Corporal 9:26
Some would say Chamberlain was a bit naive. Some would assert that about the Pres, but I think if one reviews his statements and views of the threat represented by Iran if they keep on their present course one comes to a much different conclusion. Else why would he make such threatening statements of what will happen if they do not change course?
DB, Gwinnettian
March 20th, 2009
9:30 am
back for a peek–
Paul, the link I provided is for the whole show. I haven’t read it all, but I see where a big chunk of the beginning concerned AIG. Why not copy/paste and post what you feel we ought to see?
Swami @ 8.56… my, my. um…
You wrote on behalf of “the free right of employees to elect or refuse collective bargaining under secret ballot without intimidation from the parties with a financial stake in the outcome.”
While I do not claim intimacy with labor law, my understanding of current practices regarding labor organization is that that there is no “free right”, as you seem to claim, in the USA for collective bargaining to happen at present. At present, it’s down to an employer to schedule one of these precious secret ballot union elections on their premises, and during the interim period (I believe it can be months-long), screws are applied. An entire union-busting industry exists to swoop in and intimidate employees into voting against unionization.
It’s frankly a miracle that any American company gets unionized at all, ever, given current practices.
EFCA would change that and help to modestly level the playing field, by the providing the option (note: secret balloting can still be done if that’s how employees wish to proceed) of a less formal and outside-employers’-grubby-paws card-check system.
Which is why Bernie Marcus, BoA execs and certain other rather vile-smelling right-wing captains of industry (and their online conservative apologists) seem terrified of it, and are financing a heavy-duty campaign to oppose it.
Reason I’m suspicious that Jay’s gonna dole out the Troll Chow on this issue is that, if memory serves, some months back Jay’s first-impression take on the heavily publicized card-check provision of EFCA was rather reactionary. I can only hope Jay’s learned a thing or two since then.
And now really must run. Later, all.
Private Parts/Corporal Punishment
March 20th, 2009
9:30 am
Diplomacy is for pusillanimous punks!
Chris
March 20th, 2009
9:32 am
This bill has good intentions, but will die once these Fat-cat politicians remember that their biggest contributions come from the fat-cat executives and those companies.
If the average American voter had less of a sound-bite, ADD attention span and actually followed these stories through, you’d recognize this for the grandstanding that it is.
It is way past time for Congressional term limits.
Civilian/Private/Corporal
March 20th, 2009
9:35 am
Paul:
Well then, he didn’t really reach out did he? A “threat” is not reaching out?
Urkel, “Did I say that?”
Taxpayer
March 20th, 2009
9:36 am
What was I thinking, Paul. You are absolutely right. I must have been thinking Republican party when I spoke of “cult”.
Paul
March 20th, 2009
9:41 am
Stating likely consequences is not a threat, altho some would take it that way. What’s the alternative to not reaching out? We both stay on the present course. Consider this: we read a post earlier by @@ regarding the moderate candidates’ challenge to Ahmadinejad. One of the most prominent dropped out to consolidate moderate support. Ahmadinejad isn’t all that popular among the young and moderate elements. Inflation is horrible and Ahhad has been regularly criticized by the chief cleric for his mishandling of the economy.
So Pres Obama reaches out and gets rebuffed. Iranians look at the exchange and say “good grief, after all these years we have an American president who views us with respect and we have the chance at a better life, and what does our president do? Rejects him. Time for new leadership.”
Wyld Byll Hyltnyr
March 20th, 2009
9:41 am
Jay, I never thought I’d say it and mean it, but you are absolutely 100% correct.
Yesterday’s actions reduced our great nation to little more than a banana republic where the full force of government can be brought down on those who are out of favor. I guess, to some extent, we are well on the road to becoming the Fourth Reich.
The sight and sound of moral miscreants such as Charles (”What, me pay taxes?) Rangel and Barney (”I didn’t know my live-in was running a whorehouse from my residence”) Frank is surreal.
Jay, you must agree that this Kristallnacht-esque turning or government against individuals lies squarely at the feet of President Obama.
As the President chose the easy way out by demonizing private citizens rather than telling the truth that: 1) the retention bonuses were necessar and justified; 2) The Obama Administration knew about them before they were paid; 3) the Obama Administration inserted language into the stimulus bill that ensured that these bonuses would be paid; 4) that it will take between $2.0 and $3.5 TRILLION to fix the banks; 5) that fixing the banks will be ugly and painful; 6) that despite the Obama Administration’s best efforts, certain unscrupulous persons will become unjustly enriched, but given the scale of the problem that is unavoidable and that it would be like “cutting off one’s nose to spite one’s” face if we derail the repair of our economy because of a few scoundrels.
But, President Obama lacks the wisdom and courage to come clean. He could learn alot from our courageous President Bush’s actions in placing the interest of our nation in front of personal popularity when he led the surge which ensured victory in Iraq (subject to any any Obama administration bumbling.)
One last thing, the politicians and media are all responsible for letting this thing get out of hand by mischaracterizing the financial institution recovery efforts. Though the constant use of the term “bail out”, many of the average yokels thing money was given to banks when in fact the Fed actions and TARP were all, in effect, loans that must be paid back with interest that far exceeds the Treasury’s cost of funds. In fact, after the first nine banks, TARP funds have been provided only to “good banks” to ensure that bank lending does not contract.
Less than a banana republic, Idiocracy, that’s what we have become.
Civilian/Private/Corporal
March 20th, 2009
9:43 am
Sorry. I couldn’t help it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dykurIVTOZo
Taxpayer
March 20th, 2009
9:44 am
Well, I found one well run company in the US. I’m sure there are others. They just don’t seem to be very news-worthy though. Nestles makes the very best…Chocolate.
Civilian/Private/Corporal
March 20th, 2009
9:44 am
Paul:
You can’t negotiate with cancer.
Civilian/Private/Corporal
March 20th, 2009
9:46 am
Taxpayer:
Trivia!
And what was the name of “Danny O’Day’s” dog?
bubbatech02
March 20th, 2009
9:46 am
holy cow…i am pinching myself to see if this is real. i am agreeing with jay…but you guys still need to get new photos Jay. they really do not look professional and make you all look a lot older.
G
March 20th, 2009
9:47 am
I love regulation, I really do.
Deregulation will be the downfall of this country. Will be? What am I saying? This country has already fallen down!
Maybe we have hope now, though.
Copyleft
March 20th, 2009
9:47 am
And you can’t trust foreign policy to a loon who describes other people as “cancer.” (Or, as the Nazis preferred, “a subhuman stain to be eradicated.”)
Good thing we’ve got smarter leadership now.
Paul
March 20th, 2009
9:49 am
Corporal 9:44
[[You can’t negotiate with cancer.]]
So if the doctor (Iranian voters) remove the cancer (Ahmadinejad) and do a transplant (moderate President) then we’re on our way to better health, yes?
Civilian/Private/Corporal
March 20th, 2009
9:56 am
Nope. The cancer is Islamic fundamentalism (he would just be replaced and a moderate wouldn’t last two weeks) …….. we’re in for the long haul. Just keep it knocked down (with severe chemo.) as much as we can. Chemo. keeps you very, very weak. That’s the analogy. Keep them in bed.
Dave R
March 20th, 2009
9:59 am
The free market could have fixed this AmVet, but you and your nanny-staters BAILED IT OUT!
Even a dog knows how to correct it’s behavior when it is disciplined.
RW-(the original)
March 20th, 2009
9:59 am
This bill is beyond stupid or unfair it is clearly (sorry Jay B, I know you hate that word or phrases in which it’s contained) unconstitutional. Shouldn’t there be a consequence to our elected officials when they blatantly violate their oath of office?
Anybody that swore to uphold the Constitution and then voted for this bill should be escorted out of the Capital building immediately and not even be allowed to retrieve whatever cash they have in their office freezers.
Off to the forest for a fairly extended stay. See y’all upstairs late this evening or over the weekend.
Later!
Civilian/Private/Corporal
March 20th, 2009
9:59 am
To Copyleft:
Your naivete’ is amazing. Just ask the Jews still left from the holocaust what they think of trying to “negotiate” with people the same mindset as the Nazis who seek their total annihilation.
This is not a politcal war. It’s worse.
Civilian/Private/Corporal
March 20th, 2009
10:00 am
To RW(the Original):
Good one!!
O.K. I’m out of here for awhile. Even the Corporal has to work on the Gunny’s “honey-do” list …………….
Dave R
March 20th, 2009
10:01 am
Fine, G. Move to China. They have all the regulation you can ever want.
Just leave this country to freedom-loving individuals like me.
Taxpayer
March 20th, 2009
10:04 am
Trivia, Corporal! More like lamenting. Just think about it. Here is a company, Nestle, making a product for we the people. This company knows that its long-term survival depends on providing a quality product that is also affordable. They understand that their product quality depends on the quality of the base ingredients and that garbage in equals garbage out. Or, even worse, salmonella in equals salmonella out. They have actually taken the health and safety of their customers into consideration in their process even though it costs them a little of their potential profits. They actually sent in their own inspectors and found that those peanut plants just were not up to snuff. Now, there’s a company with executives that really earned their pay. Kudos! Further, they do not represent a drain on we the people as a result of the court cases that will necessarily ensue from relatives of the deceased (that can never be repaid unless you believe in raising the dead via more Republican party voodoo science) and other companies that will be trying to recoup their losses. Oh well. At least all those other companies were not saddled with a bunch of costly regulations and oversight. I’m sure that saved us consumers pennies on each and every peanut-containing product that we have bought. I feel so much better just knowing that there are so many businesses out there looking out for our best interests (hehe) especially since the government has not been doing it. Maybe its time for some change. No. It IS time for some change.
Taxpayer
March 20th, 2009
10:08 am
Corporal, if you are so in favor of chemical warfare, then why did you support getting rid of Saddam and his buddy, Chemical Ali. You know, those guys that the US worked so close with. You should get Rumsfeld to share some of his stories with you. The days of mustard gas and such. I’m sure you two would really hit it off.
G
March 20th, 2009
10:10 am
Dave R, I will live wherever the hell I want.
Get over yourself.
Rick Z.
March 20th, 2009
10:13 am
“The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.”
If the Administration had tried to take back the bonuses, it probably would have had big legal issues. But the 16th Amendment gives Congress very broad authority to do it through legislation.
Paul
March 20th, 2009
10:14 am
Corporal,
So what’s the worse that could happen? Pres Obama offers normalized relations, the Iranians say ‘no’ so we’re no worse off. But if it impels dissent, change in Iran, then that can work to our benefit. But that will never happen unless we do what the Pres has done. the Islamic fundamentalism will still be there in the gov’t controlled by the mullahs. But a change on their grip has to start somewhere, and I think it safe to say such change, historically, has a better chance of succeeding when it occurs from within (native population) than from without (foreign power).
J David Raiteri
March 20th, 2009
10:16 am
YOU nimrods voted SOCIALISM….this is the face of SOCIALISM.